Sava18
Sava18
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Probably the worst thread for both sides I have ever seen.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396926#Comment_3396926
did you really just use an example of a 5k hour swf that hardly anyone ever goes against? you do realize those god swfs are in such a minority that twins players are more common, right? why on earth would you use a god swf as an example unless you're trolling?
"the game simply isn't balanced around having 4 survivors for over half the match"
??? do you commonly not have a kill by the time the game's half over? maybe it's not a case of you NEED to tunnel/camp to get a kill, consistently not having even 1 kill by the time the game's half over is kinda telling. i refuse to believe half of the people here consistently go against survivor teams that are just so much noticeably better than them they have no chance of winning against without camping or tunneling for the majority of their matches. refer to my earlier point: i beg that you're trolling.
I'm genuinely confused. Are you guys saying a 5k hour swf as a total play time between the 4 is a lot? Or are you saying it's a 20k hours swf?
Either way the first one is easily insignificant to me and is beyond common. Hours mean nothing in this game as well. People weigh hours in this game wayyy too much when it really isn't that hard.
DBD is quite literally the only game I have seen where even the content creators are going off hours to such a dumb extenet. The highest hour players in league are bronze, it means nothing.
I guess I get there is no real ranking system, but even mentioning it puts you at a disadvantage in argument.
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@Emoba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401376#Comment_3401376
No offense but your theory rather sounds like personal cope.
Uhhh. There are maybe 3 killer's with the potential to deal with extremely well coordinated teams. If you really think Wesker, Oni and Artist have the ability to deal with a efficient comp teams, you are simply wrong. If there are no killers in the game that can contest them whatsoever that's just awful game design.
It's not a cope, they simply don't have the capability to deal with these teams. Nurse has 80%+ of her power in base kit while being disgustingly strong, Blight has maybe half of his max power level in basekit and his disgusting add-ons bring him up to Nurse level.
I don't think Nurse in general is fair or Blights top 2 add-ons are fair but one sides top power level can't far exceed the others. If you disagree with me on that point unparticular, then all I can do is laugh in your face.
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Nah. Billy and Blight can't be on the same tier. Billy has no counter play, blight can look down to delete the "crouch tech???" lmao.
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Mains fine, outside is fine, room with the long table on west side is fine and east side bottom floor room connected to the hallway is fine for the most part. Pretty much anything upstairs isn't great though.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396807#Comment_3396807
To be fair, I don't just fly someone out to Mount Everest with no gear and no guide if they want to climb a mountain. I make sure they at least can handle a hill, before slowly raising difficulty. Too often for new players, the top 5 killers have too sharp of a difficulty spike. When learning is that difficult, people tend to disengage. If they disengage, they give up in-game, or give up mentally and fail to progress the game. No one giving up in any respect is learning from that experience. They might be able to learn if they come back with a fresh mind/match, but all too often the lesson to be learned is 'Blight/Nurse = unfun sweat match', so people just want to go next.
Also not everyone's experience is the same. One of the posters said they straight up give up against stealth Killers in general. I personally love stealth Killers the most (both as and against). They are one of the few times you can actually get an 'oh-sh**' moment. Imagine actually having jumpscares in what is supposed to be a horror game, right? I also love how it emphasizes the strategy aspect of the game, and makes you feel like Sun Tzu when you pull off your mindgames and macro strats. (Pressuring multiple Survs that is, not something as basic as holding a 3-gen.)
When I lose to something, I try to go against it or play the opposite side in general. I have learned how to avoid detection because I know where I would look as Surv. Sadly the lesson I learned with Blight, is Blight wins. If I pick Blight (and try to win), I win. If I go against Blight, (and he tries to win) he wins. If I wanted to play a game with a foregone conclusion, I'd play a single player story experience. I need that real risk of victory or loss, and I need both potentials to be in the ballpark of one another. One could argue I fit in that camp of disengaging mentally against Blights. The only hope lies in whether or not the Killer is new or not, and upon confirming bug abuse you can't tell they aren't. I still do gens as Surv, but that doesn't stop my teammates from dropping too quick.
If we ignore c33 and alch ring then blight is the pinnacle of this game. It's unfortunate so many players are less than even a casual level in this game.
The thing is, most blights are awful by my standard. Most being probably around 90% if I am putting it against my better estimation. But on the other hand at least 95% of survivors don't have any clue on what to do against a good blight. Some of that is from people not trying to learn and some of that is from how little survivors get to go against an actually good blight.
I get it, your teamates probably don't even know what collision is and thus they can't even do a basic pluto at most shacks, but that's really not your fault it's theirs.
The difference between something like league and dbd though is that way too many people are bad and are not trying to get better. "High mmr" isn't even good survivors for the most part, just people running the best stuff available in a swf. I can lower my mmr or raise it to the max and all I will receive is efficiency on the survivor side not a noticeable increase in chase skills, including comp players. I remember running alch ring/iri tag for the second time quite a while back, going into it expecting the easiest of games. But I went against a god tier survivor on Zarina who absolutely 1v9d the game for the survivors. Not because they had the capability to loop m1 killers which is beyond easy but because they were able to absolutely destroy me in so many ways as blight on suffo pit I wasn't even a little tilted. It's just these survivors are so few and far between this game lacks substance for me at the moment. I am simultaneously playing the most skilled killer in the game by far and giving survivors the highest possible ability to improve by playing blight with low tier add-ons.
Seriously, if I went against these god chasers and not these bots/efficient teams who lack the real skill I desire to play against I would be inclined to play this game much more. As it stands I just can't bring myself to care with the current player base.
Keep in mind I have maIned several killers before blight ranging between hag and blight which have opposite play styles. But if I play Bubba it's more on the survivors to make a mistake, more than it is for either of us to be in a skilled chase in which both of us can make a skilled play at the same time.
I'll probably pick up killer and not just survivor for a bit after the patch drops, but this is literally the only game I have ever complained about how terrible my opponents are(on boths sides).
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400779#Comment_3400779
A ton of the wraiths I go against play hit and run or are babies. There's no in between. Either the game is boring because of hit and run or it's boring because I'm just pubstomping a baby wraith who I shouldn't even be queued against. I love playing wraith, he just isn't a killer who is fun to go against.
I get that. There is no chase if the killer leaves you so soon and weak killers provide no real skill on the survivors part. I just feel like a lot the hate about wraith on these forums is that he has no counter play and that's just laughable to me. The game is in the survivors hands vs wraith.
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@solidhex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397329#Comment_3397329
those stats don't say anything, and they're one of the reasons this game is unbalanced. You can not just look at numbers but don't know how to interpret and use them. Blight is one of the hardest to learn killers and according to the stats, Nurse is one of the weakest killers in the game, but i guess everyone with over 100h in this game won't believe that. But yeah maybe we should buff Nurse and nerf Sadako :D
It's quite telling of this player bases skill for nurse to be as low as she is. Her skill floor might be the highest but it's not hard to reach and her skill ceiling is laughable compared to blights. I can only chalk it up as newish players finally giving into playing nurse and giving up after 5 games.
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I don't understand why people dislike playing vs wraith, killer is too easy to play against and there is no 0 counter play tiles other than very very bad filler tiles like ormond picnic table pallet.
At any decent pallet it's simply your fault if you get hit out of his power, it just doesn't make sense to me.
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Anything they do besides a complete rework will still be boring to play against. Kinda reminds me of a certain survivor perk that I have seen in 50% of survivor exhaustion perk slots since I started playing this game for real 2 years ago, lol.
ATM she is just a different version of legion realistically.
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@blmpride5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400474#Comment_3400474
High mmr doesn't exist in this game which is the problem. It's very obvious that there's an extremely low mmr cap. For example once you start with a new killer you will get complete beginners. But then later after winning basically all your games, you will have games with insane loopers then also still people who barely know how to loop anything. On my strongest killer (over half games are 4k easily) I still run into very poor survivors.
Regardless of everything else you said, if your mmr is truly high on your best killer then you won't run into complete beginners on your worst one. There is supposedly a minimum range between your top and bottom killers in terms of mmr. If your raise your nurse to 2600 then your trapper you have never played should be 2000 if I remember correctly.
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@smartemarte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397929#Comment_3397929
you're being selectively naive with their stats... if you honestly don't think that the majority of nurse and blight beginners are the only reason their win rates are brought down then you're either deluded or blinded by the hours that you've put into him.
when he has an ability to reset his charge on a hit.... that is stupid when he can COMFORTABLY 4k even good teams without any perks .... that is stupid
when you cant outplay a blight because his mobility (once learned) means he can hug tech corners and loops that is stupid
I compare him because as soon as the player has spent enough time learning his mechanics it is exactly the same as nurse, it comes down to pot luck on the killers decision of which way he will go, there's hardly any level of skill a survivor can bring to it you are going down if you don't GUESS which way he's going. Thats not a good game mechanic, that's just good for ego killers such as yourself that spend thousands of hours on the #2 killer and claim you're only winning because you're better than all the survivors and not because he's over tweaked especially in solo survivor games.
lmfao. I don't think you realize how few players have put the time into blight to understand the collision of many things in the game and play around it accordingly. Is alch ring and c33 broken yes, but blight can be abused via his collision and rng and not understanding that is a big part of him being so free once learned to the extent hugtechlover has.
Go on, name the collision of every object at every angle, I'll wait.
Oh wait you can't, because even 99% of blight mains don't know it and it really is just a knowledge gap on 99% of survivors as well. The comp players that I have gone against haven't put in the effort to learn blights collision to a decent extent, how would I expect you to understand any of it? There is at the very least one play on every map that survivors didn't use blights collision against him, even the most solid of maps. Then there is things like eeyrie(which is deceivingly slippery) swamp and yamaoka that have extremely abusable collision.
The stats don't matter but everything outside of c33(even though alch ring is op) leaves a lot to be desired from survivor side. Good survivors typically just play vs blight like he is nurse, but also pre throw, which is not optimal unless the survivor is at very selective loops.
If you can't look at the outside of every single loop and understand what the blight has to work with, you are not playing well enough vs him. Cowtree being a big one that survivors should never get hit at, ever.
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@Steakdabait said:
all making gates regress would do is just make survivors immediately leave instead of trying for a end game save. Which is just very boring.
I agree. The most fun for both sides is clutch end game all or nothing plays. While I do think 99% gates are dumb, it's not worth trading for those amazing end games.
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@HugTheHag said:
Big agree on : making the pip system more forgiving, but on both roles. Depipping is a relic of the past and achieves nothing.
Big disagree on : killer additionnal perk slots. Killers are already doing well having above 50% killrate, so more perks would only make that rise.
Big agree on : Reworking lower tier killers. I'd love to see some QoL to Clown for example. I'm afraid what they'd do to Hag but I'll also throw her in there. (Though Twins is the prioroty)
As for the "killers should be able to get 2K against any teams and rarely 0K or 4K" : that's just not possible. Survivors become less and less efficient the fewer of them there are, so if you'vre got 2K it generally snowballs into 3Ks and 4Ks.
Kinda disagree on : "1 skilled player against 4 players of equal skill". Not only are those 4 underpowered for it to be balanced, so that 1 roughly = 4 in power, but matchmaking is also kinda dumb. Case in point : yesterday, playing survivor as dummy low skill me, I got paired with a god looper 3k hours Cybil. And the killer, who I happened by chance to rematch right after without Cybil in my team, was good but definitely not to Cybil's level, and was still clearly above mine. Matchmaking is a mixed bag.
I don't think killer can be drastically buffed through base kit, because they're already in a good place (at least as of pre-midchapter) and pretty much all they need in my opinion is low tier killer reworks / QoL, and for toolboxes to get the medkit treatment and be nerfed.
Sorry. Hag already got her bi-decade change 😄
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She got boring really quick and fatigue is disgusting even though I don't get motion sick from it. Just like I don't play Billy because I can't stand his animations either.
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I wonder how "niche" shadowborne actually is. It probably has a surprisingly high play rate overall.
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TRUE, just make green speed base kit!
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I can't imagine caring about achievements in this game for myself, no way I'm going to give it freely to the opposition.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398529#Comment_3398529
The only counterplay to a good Blight with c33/Alc Ring/double speed is pre-dropping half the pallets on the map in the first chase. No looping. No gameplay. Only pre-drop. Unless the Blight absolutely sucks. Then you have a chance.
That kinda of discounts any map/collision/tile rng to an extreme. Yes double speed has very little counterplay but saying all you can do is pre-drop, there are too many factors to say that definitively regardless of the blights skill.
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@GravelordNito99 said:
The way to beat any killer with any addons is to play survivor and not be bad at the game. Survivors are unbelievably op, so it's quite literally impossible to lose.
Nah, for the most part there is no real gameplay when going against c33 blight. Many times getting tunneled out off hook with alch ring is really hard to deal with.
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Most definitely needs to be harsher.
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Most of the time I let the survivors choose what they want, if they want to do gens while I am afk that's fine. If they want me to put them on the hook, that's also fine. A lot of the times the survivors try and get me to farm hit/pallets with them but I just make them chose gens or die. Sometimes though a DC ruins my mood so much as killer I just end it regardless. This is all assuming an early dc/hook suicide.
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Sweaty has such a wide range of use in this community. People call trying to win sweaty and bringing in good stuff sweaty. So with that in mind I would call tunneling from min one sweaty.
Just because tunneling is unfun for survivors doesn't mean killers(especially low tier killer mains) shouldn't tunnel. I doubt you play league but you can experience gameplay far more out of your control than tunneling in certain scenarios, but I don't fault the players doing that to me when it happens.
I don't tunnel because I want to see each survivors full capability in chase from hopefully full health. But the strat is good and it's up to bhvr to somehow remove it while filling in at least some of the power gap it will leave behind. It will probably be addressed in someway eventually, it's hated by a large portion of the community.
There's also a big difference between a clown tunneling someone out early and an alch-ring blight hard tunneling someone out. It's honestly kinda weird how people always group all killers together when talking about things like this when the power gap is just so massive between A tier and D tier killers.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397748#Comment_3397748
If you think otz with his superb macro(not micro) should have less than an 80% kill rate
Why does this only go one way though? Some skilled killer racks up an enormous kill count and that's fine, but a perfectly coordinated survivor team manages to demolish a less competent killer and suddenly all the alarm bells get rung about how unfair the game is.
I mean if you are talking directly to me, then I don't know why. I appreciate how high the skill cap for playing survivor at tiles is, more than any killer besides blight. It's why you will see me complaining about avg skill level especially for survivor on these forums, I want to have my micro tested against these near non existent good players.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate efficient swfs as well but it's like a blight tunneling with alch ring, boring. Comp teams are always mid in chase while being super, super efficient. But, keep in mind I main blight and I crave survivors who have put in the effort to learn my killer in order to abuse collision against me.
On the other hand, I realize how most killers either have no counter play vs survivors or eventually the survivors have no counter play vs the killer. I despise that as well. So if you see me defending killers from coordinated swfs it's because of that fact, it's up to the survivors to mess up until the have nothing left to use in their area. Blights just the perfect middle ground of (outside his top 2 add-ons of course) where if both sides are good enough there is a disgusting amount of counter play for both parties.
Last thing I will say is maps can sway into survivor side to such a disgusting degree that even heavily experienced killers can have nothing to do vs competent survivors. Like sure, I might be able to eat through enough pallets after getting pre-dropped for 3 min to win as blight, but every other killer is just losing on spawn.
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Honestly when people say chill on either side they really mean don't run the best stuff possible/ on killer side tunnel. Most killers are not winning 7/10 games, you underestimate how bad this play base is on both sides all the way to comp level. When a killer player puts extensive time into this game and actually tries to learn hard macro and some micro of each killer they play it can seem easy, in reality the survivors they are going against just don't have the skill/teamwork/ are solo to contest them. But survivors make innumerable mistakes each game that add up to a stupid amount of killer rolling pressure. If you think otz with his superb macro(not micro) should have less than an 80% kill rate or lilith playing the hardest killer in this game by far that few survivors have gone out of their way to learn anything about in this player base I don't know what to tell you. High mmr killers are not getting matched against equal survivors for the most part and the same goes for survivors.
Your skill simply means more in a 1v4 as the 1 than the 4 where 1 person can lose you the game. So many survivor players inting and so many killer players are just flat out bad.
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Nurse and Blight = swf running good stuff while being semi efficient. Other than that it's the obvious low mmr beyond killer sided, mid mmr relatively balanced and high mmr being survivor sided. Well maybe mmr isn't the right word here but it gets the point across.
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Both are terrible, as they should be. Eruption is the only good gen kick perk now and a full gen kick build is probably worth less than a full devour build.
Dh and CoH get to be viable still, while gen kick meta is rightfully deleted. I guess that's the trade off for alch ring and c33 to still exist lmao.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396811#Comment_3396811
Even if it's every chase it's just not enough time to be so insanely boring as to alone warrant changing the perk, remember that gens take 90 seconds
IT's not about balance or anything to do with the rest of the game though. Playing around it every single time is just beyond boring for me at this point. I get hit by it very rarely as well, but it still doesn't matter. If I had to play against knight 2/3rd of my games for 2 years I would drop survivor too.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396644#Comment_3396644
True sadly, DH could become a B tier perk and that wouldn't be good enough for so many people for no good reason
Maybe because waiting it out is boring, every single chase. Tedious is monotonous with a slight hint of skill is all dh is now.
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I would, but I am genuinely concerned to post two conjoined injured female survivors teabagging me as a clip. Might get me banned.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396176#Comment_3396176
The best chasers I've played against have all been random players.
The thing that makes comp teams so hard to deal with is their macro play.
It's impossible to beat a really good Killer without good macro, imo
I agree 100%. Comp teams are so scary because their macro is so good, but their chases never impress me too much. When I see that followed by the extreme salt all comp players give me after running 4 full meta builds and a coldwind offering, I lose respect. Especially when I am playing "fairly".
Although Playing against a random who is nuts at chasing vs the challenge of facing a comp team in macro, the random is way more fun. I get to improve more vs the random over the comp team pre-throwing every pallet and running a long wall in a sub par way. I don't want to play the comp game of tunneling someone out and then slugging one into a snowball for the win at 2 gens. I want to see the full potential of these peoples chases, not how well they learned the mediocre macro of dbd as a team.
While it's unrealistic to say this, if four amazing solo players group up they can stomp a good killer. If the chases are that good. But the amount of survivors who can run me for two gens that I have played against outside of cow shed can probably be counted on 2 hands.
To reiterate, one of the strongest survivor I have gone against in chase has been a 700 hour nea named Achilles. They were cracked. In the first game I played vs them there was a 7k hour Elodie that had no idea what blight did.
I genuinely don't think I would have an issue with dh if I saw some of the insane .01% dh's used against me instead of the predictable ,tedious ones that just bore me to death. But dh's used vs most killers are either fully in the hands of the survivor like vs huntress or demo, or they are fully in the hands of the killer like most m1 killers with dh's current iteration. DH vs blight seems like it's easy but vs any competent blight it actually makes the perk skillful when the survivor can read the blight in anyway. But between 400 hours of me on blight in 2022 and the 1k hours of lilith I watched in 2022, I have seen maybe 5 AMAZING dead hards against blight since 6.1.0. Between the tediousness of dh and the feeling of not being able to improve in CHASE vs survivors, I have lost interest in dbd as of late.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileSneakyPuddingPipeHype-xxxFgtswgZpWnfqSEspecially since dh's change only served to reduce pick rate and didn't actually address any of the boring aspects of it, I wish I could see some insane dh's like that. Full pluto on first lethal rush into a wait time during slam duration of .25-.5 seconds. That is one in one million dh's.
I really, really wish more gamers would come to this game with the intent to improve their skill. That includes both sides considering the bot level killers I have gone against during this gen kick meta that was too boring for most teamates to endure along with my only top 20% skill level survivor in terms of chase.
DBD can be such intense fun but the player base simply ruins it for me. BOTS literally have better wiggles than 95% of survivors vs blight.
Anyway, little rant there I guess. As of now I feel the same as I did before 6.1.0 about dbd regardless of the power level survivors lost. So glad the healing changes didn't go through though. Just would have been me jumping oblivious injured survivors on a gen and left without a chase half the time.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393488#Comment_3393488
And 1 failed DH has exactly 0 impact for the Killer. But I always forget that you are all at giga-MMR and only get comp teams.
People still complaining about dh as if the only reason it shouldn't be gutted is to simply stop the waiting out gameplay that is beyond boring. I get one instance of eating a dh on a low tier killer is awful for pressure but I simply don't want to play around it after the 10000th+ time. The devs either don't understand that or they do and want to appease the majority of survivors who find the perk fun(understandable).
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394802#Comment_3394802
I have 6 k of play. that means between the other three survivors they had a combined 10k hours of experience, so they each had an average of 3333 hours of experience. The math works. Again math be fact based. It is numbers. So the facts support my comments, though I realize others' feelings may be different. I'm not trying to change your feelings. Feelings and facts don't always align, as we are seeing.
LMAO. Stating hours mean much in this game of all things! I've gone against less than 1k hour survivors that are cracked because they went out of their way to absorb information from outside sources and 8k hour survivor's who offer nothing to me in terms of skill. This game isn't hard. Survivor macro is mediocre to learn and only looping is hard. Killer macro is medicore to learn and the micro is near non existent on most killers. People in this game weigh hours too heavily as if it means something other than an indicator, quite similar to prestige in that way. If the player never went out of their way to improve or lacks talent or simply never got into video games before dbd hours mean nothing.
You can give so many people years of only dbd only for them to come out decent, your hours mean nothing. Saying the "math adds up here" is just funny. Your hours in the game don't = facts in any capacity after 1k.
But then again I come from league where the standard is far far higher than dbd ever will be. But I feel for you if your first semi-competitive game was dbd.
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@Sava18 said:
Only game I have ever played where it makes me mad how low the skill level is of all but 95% of players are on BOTH sides.
I will say though that the best actual chasees have been in solo queue. The comp teams I have gone against have never been above A tier in chase. They play against my blight like it's nurse and I never see some extremely good play abusing Blights collision mechanics.
Please send me comp players using blights collision against him outside of shack. It'll rarely happen,. j
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Only game I have ever played where it makes me mad how low the skill level is of all but 95% of players are on BOTH sides.
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I know he's not the least played but Jakes seem to be gone after 6.1.0
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I was having fun for the couple months on hag before CoH and dh validation got added. But playing blight at the start of 2022 was the most fun I had.
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@smartemarte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393580#Comment_3393580
That's just way too situational, they've not nerfed it they've just made it obsolete 😂
If you are not getting tunneled it's simply better, not even a debate.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393568#Comment_3393568
I disagree dh is hard to use to get value if killer is patient. You said yourself that survivors only manage to use it 15% of time agains't you. The only problem really is now that it is so common but this change should make it pick rate go lower. Cob and Oc require you to just kick gens that is easy.
What are you disagreeing with? I never said it was easy to get value out of, in fact I said it was up to the killer to mess up a lot of the time. The issue is waiting it out is awful game design and that is nearly indisputable within the context of dbd.
This might be a dbd thing but just because you rely on your opponent to mess up doesn't mean the perk is hard to use. In reality you lack the control you think you have when using the perk. Hard/skillful should be terms used sparingly considering how often those terms lack meaning in dbd. Dh being hard is laughable to me considering the many other multiplayer games I have played. I play blight only because he Deny's the unskillful part of the game and without a doubt provides the most skillful game play for the survivor and the killer themselves(minus alch ring and c33). The macro in this game is infinitely harder than the micro and both are miniscule compared to peak LoL. Billy is without a doubt the hardest killer mechanically(coming from a blight main) and he really has nothing to learn outside of muscle memory. People used to say nurse was hard, but without considering a small percentile she can be learned over night(with some talent). Blight simply requires a vast amount of knowledge and game sense that no one has acquired to play perfectly, no other killer is like that.
Cob and OC takes the level of skill an AI from 2005 to preform well with atm. I only mention these perks because the provide the same level of tediousness as dh consistently.
On killer side nothing can compare to the skill level of blight and dh's miniscule skill can't compare to playing tiles/looping as a whole vs the 31(?) killers in the game.
I'll say it again, I have maybe seen 10 skillful dh's between the 1k hours of high level blight I watched and at least 400 hours of my own play time since 6.1.0. Any dh you deem skillful really isn't if it's not in a matchup vs a blight who both waits out dh and can adapt to survivor's who wait out his initial lethal rush( BUT ALSO survivor's who then adapt to that blight). Any dh vs other killers can't be claimed to be of high skill level. Send me a clip of a survivor waiting out 2 lethal rushes while playing like they were dhing and I will be impressed( the blight has to be brushing passed as if it's a shoulder flick every time). I have posted it multiple times but if everyone could use dh vs blight like the one I have been spamming then I probably wouldn't hate the perk.
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
what do you mean “team”? I don’t know these ppl or owe them anything. I’ll DC or die on first hook as I see fit and if it suits me.
it’s a video game. This ain’t work.
Wow, just wow. Players like you have deleted a quarter of the player base. Your lucky there is no penalty for first hook giving up and a lackluster initial dc penalty for a day.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393499#Comment_3393499
You make a valid point of it getting boring because of repetitiveness. That's why I think BHVR caved in and nerfed it, pick rate.
Bhvr nerfed it because of pick rate but failed to resolve it's boring aspects. I wish killers were complaining about the perk like I am but they are all saying it's broken still. It's not, it's just awful design and repetitive. Again I really just wish it was true reworked but I don't think it will ever happen because of it's sheer popularity on survivor side.
People always bring up how fun and skillful it is, but you know what else is skillful and fun? Alch ring/ iri tag. But there are very few survivors who get the rng to go against a good blight running that add-on combo and still find it fun.. I realize the power level difference between these things but lines drawn between these arguments still are the same.
If they are gonna delete CoB+Overcharge they should delete/rework dh. I despise CoB+Overcharge for the low skill boring gameplay it provides and I despise DH for the mediocre skill boring gameplay it provides. All these people crutching on dh taking skill have never played another real competitive multiplayer game in their life. I guess that really comes down to how mediocre even most high level players are in this game though.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
Every DH discussion misses the point, the only time Dead Hard was a problem was when it was a no-brainer gain distance button.
Biased/entitled killer mains just want it gone and nerfed to the ground, not balanced.
That much I can tell by how they reacted to the last DH rework (first few days they thought no1 would use it and were absolutely exhilarated), and how much they whine about pretty much everything the survivors do despite the fact that escape rates are in the sewer and the fact that BHVR themselves want the game to be killer inclined (they've already stated they don't want 50/50's %, and judging by the last reported statistics it very much ISN'T a 50/50).
Biased/entitled survivor mains that couldn't deal with the fact that it took skill to use after the rework kept killing themselves on hook after the update to try and sabotage statistics (spoiler alert this doesn't work, neither do DC's), and Solo Q was pretty much unplayable for some time.
People just want to see stuff nerfed to the ground because they can't cope with it.
You'll see people preach flashlights are toxic and op, you'll see people complain about Dead Hard, you'll see people whine about getting tunneled (they can't last 2s in chase, pity) you'll see people cry about gen rush and complain the game is "survivor sided" after they boost themselves to lobbies with non-potato survivors by using 4 slowdowns and "strategies" that made the game think they actually know how to apply pressure and play the game, and you'll see people complain about a killer being weak when they're not just because they haven't learned it or because they're comparing it to another killer that is busted base kit or with certain add-ons.
At the end of the day, nothing will really matter, because BHVR just wants to keep the game interesting by nerfing stuff to the ground to make way for different perks, regardless of what we all think. They'll make something up, and then they will just adjust it depending on feedback. We participate in the process, and we are valued by BHVR, but we will never get the first word and probably never will, because honestly the community hasn't proven itself to be responsible enough for this IMO. Most discussions about balancing are just "I don't like this thing" or "Here's why this absolutely busted thing is actually fair", and most suggestions are just someone who pulls numbers out of a black hole and says "yeah, this'll work, trust me bro" with absolutely no foundation or critical thought whatsoever.
I mean you can read my post, I understand most killers don't hold the same opinion on dh as I. But I think seeing the same thing every game is problematic. Other games have different game designs and can allow for things to be banned with more varied balance. At the very least when I play survivor I get varied killers that I can play differently vs regardless of how boring or exciting their game play can be. When I play killer It's just nothing too special survivors running the same perks albeit more than before 6.1.0.
That perk just has awful and boring design on killer side while it feels amazing to get off as a survivor, I would know I ran it in all my survivor games for months.
The killer side thing that's boring is when you see them tunneling your teammate who isn't too good, I'm sure everyone has a flat expression when that happens. Same goes for when I see a dh coming up
Me: DH?
Survivor: DH's
Me: DH
Me: Downs survivor
Most players go through that with the most flat expression on their face because it's a boring routine.
Remember when the forums were flooded with the "I'm tired of going against Wesker every game"? It's like that. By dh's design survivors will keep running it until it's actually f tier and killers will have to keep waiting it out until it gets a full rework not a bhvr nothing rework.
This is the second time in 1.7 years that I have quit because of how tedious the perk is to play against. Even with it going from 3 to 2 dh's a game it will stay relatively popular. I could run alch ring every single game and just ignore it but I don't want to fight a boring , overused perk with an oppressive, overused add-on. I know alch ring is op and feels bad to play against so I go out of my way to not run it.
I get there is all these people saying dh is op and should be nerfed when it's not, but at the core of the issue it just comes down to how unfun and hard(for mediocre killers) to play against the perk.
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It's just regardless of balance the wait it out thing is so boring at this point. I just don't think it will ever change because so many survivor players like the parry aspect of it. It's simply bad design. I haven't been playing for two months because playing around it every single chase is just tedious. %dh procs vs me is probably 15% max and it still single handedly got me to stop playing the game just as before 6.1.0.
It's not even as skilled as people think. There are minor mind games you can play around a pallet with it, anything out in the open is up to the killer to mess up. I have seen maybe 10 crazy good dh's since 6.1.0. It makes me feel like I am playing against the same players every game when so few players differentiate themselves from other in terms of play, skill and perks.
People say dh is the only thing standing in the way of nurse/blight but I genuinely think a 99d sprint burst that is used well has a better chance of working. Both from the disgusting amount of Blight game play I have watched and my own. If a blight gets hit with dh it means he was on his last rush or more probable, forced to flick for the hit which in most cases is dodgeable regardless of dh. I don't really have enough knowledge to say anything like that with nurse though.
You can say it's not op, I agree with you. But you can't change the fun factor of playing against it for me. I genuinely don't think I would have an issue with it if I hadn't seen it so many times since I started playing. I love playing as and against blight but I would probably hate it if I saw him every game as well.
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@bm33 said:
You can't see what the survivor sees when they go down or are on hook. Maybe instead of seeing teammates on gens they are in the basement teabagging and pointing at eachother wasting time. Maybe they have a teammate instantly screw them over at the start of the match. Maybe they have a specific archive challenge they're working on and can tell this isn't the match they'll be able to do it. Maybe you hung out by the hook instead of leaving and they figured you were just going to camp them. There's alot of reasons why a survivor may instantly give up.
Slugging them to "punish" them isn't going to make them change their mind. Either it's going to make them go "knew this match would be bad/waste of time" and they'll go play on their phone waiting to die OR the next match they play they'll take it out on the next set of random teammates who save them from hook and find ways to screw them over so they aren't slugged by killer for giving up. Just kill the survivor and move on instead of thinking you need to "punish" them.
I'm thinking there shouldn't be a free leave button in a game like this when I see someone start giving up. Half the time the other survivors clearly agree with me.
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If I am running any gen regression it'll be pain res still, I just simply don't care about any other and I am going to get all 4 hooks.
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@HarryMasonEnjoyer said:
pain res, grim embrace and no way out all have a pretty interesting synergy going on now. on their own they're not great but i have to wonder how much slowdown these all give collectively now.
The problem with grim embrace is that typically everyone is hiding once it happens and the only thing left to do is camp the person on hook.
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I mean. Unless the killer is dropping chase every time someone gets a dh off then you only ever got it 3 times in the last patch, now it's just two. It's a significant nerf but it's strength when you have it is still the exact same. People are saying it's dead like it got the ruin treatment. I doubt it will ever go back to 3-4 in games like it is currently but I would be surprised if it's not 1-2 every game in a couple months yet again.
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@Kalevi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392611#Comment_3392611
Truth be told, I never have used a single hex perk aside from pre nerfed undying and hex ruin so your statement isn't wrong.
Yep, most people are probably the same. Even ruin/undying pre nerf was over rated, only blight/nurse/spirit got optimal value out of it(no way!).
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I don't think hex totems should exist in any form outside of things that spawn the totems such as play thing. The only Hex worth running is devour with a full build dedicated to it imo. Maybe blood favor too.
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I think the patch is great but 100% healing seems a bit much even with CoH losing it's self healing ability. I'd say 75% would have been fine. 100% leads to absurd things If I remember the CoH ptb right.