Sava18
Sava18
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@Geiz said:
I do not think so. They nerfed altruistic healing for no reason at all, the main problem was self healing which are strong currently but not altruistic healing.
The altruistic healing should remain untouched. They also removed one of hardest counterplay against Nurse, which is insane.
They did not touch any of top tier killers for nerfing when making those changes, DH was the most balanced perk against those killers, but without it now, Nurse, Blight and Spirit will be stronger than ever now. CoH was also really great against them (though I agree 100% this perk should never been existed at first).
People continuing to think dh is better vs blight than sb lmao.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382430#Comment_3382430
I've only seen a handful of killers use shattered hope in my playtime. so it can't have been that big of a problem.
It's the same reason as unbreakable. It has a strong effect but you have to go vs a certain playstyle or in this case perk in order to get value. Plus one killer perk to counter a single survivor perk for one survivor is a waste of time. Simply put, It's better to ignore the boon, take the L in that regard and focus on other things rather than waste a perk slot dedicated to it. It's like running franklins because you see 3 med-kits, it might help but other perks are more worth regardless of how strong 3 green med-kits can be.
If I have to walk to the west wing office in rpd to break a boon even though the gens are gone, that's a huge waste of time.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382428#Comment_3382428
Im genuinely unsure what you mean by the distinction. Please elaborate? Ty! < 3
I guess that was a little rude. But that build implies you are souly playing for yourself to get out, if I am wrong correct me.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
Changing a healing perk to where you need medkits or another person to heal you to use it is the height of stupidity. Why waste a perk slot when you can just bring a medkit or get a heal from a teammate anyway?
You are simply inside your on box. boons have 0 real counter play, CoH was simply the only one consistent enough to run every game.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Yeah, Ehe is just needing to think outside the box more.
DH was counterable, but complaining is a much easier way to get things to change than changing your playstyle. "I shouldnt have to blah blah" What should you have to do then? Tell the devs so we can get them to fix that too.
DH will still be played after the change, but killers wil adapt knowing players will be more altruistic. Im sure this is by design. I'll be sticking to my SoloQ Wakeup/Adrenaline/Solesurvivor/Distortion build. SoloQ for life.
That's not solo queue, that's single player.
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@ehe said:
Okay bestie, now tell me in great detail the exact actions a killer can take against a dead hard at a pallet. go on, tell me. except it cant be killer specific, because I shouldnt have to play a killer to deny a perk.
Yeah no. pallet+dh is uncounterable BS, play some more killer and you'll know any good DH user is a NIGHTMARE.
He doesn't care. He complains about how anti fun these changes are but any anti fun arguments against dh are bad and ignored.
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Not sure about blighted rat being there but the audacity bhvr has to nerf billy in any form before ring and especially c33.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382200#Comment_3382200
I can observe skilled dh play in every game with my friends (some of them playing this game competitive).
But sure. Some people can continue living in a bubble and think that a completely random win on a 50/50% pallet / TL is more related to skill then pressing E when killer does not expect this.
Who brings up filler pallet plays when talking about skillful plays on tiles? Who picks two small parts of the many tiles in the game in this conversation?
You didn't even bring anything to this conversation here. You just said pressing e when the killer doesn't expect it is more skillful than all of looping. But first of all what decent killer wouldn't expect it? If the killer m1s you in open field before you press e thats on them, nothing you did. The dh are at a pallet is literally a 50/50. On the seeing a really skilled dh every game thing, I guess that just means your bar for something really skilled is far lower than mine.
If you send me a clip that is even close to this in mind gaming and skillfulness regarding dh I may believe you. Although I doubt you can because no other killer allows for an interaction that deep with dh.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileSneakyPuddingPipeHype-xxxFgtswgZpWnfqSIf you need me to explain all the minute details the nea pulled off there I can.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382179#Comment_3382179
I had normal chases for five years and I strongly disagree.
Ofc spirit can wait it out like any other killer but since it's a 110% killer it is more punishing for her and DHs against Spirit are actually easier than against a Trapper.
Against good Blights DH is the only thing that can keep you alive for a decent ammount of time and give you the chance to transition to another loop. Normal spins won't do this.
Yeah, I don't know in what world playing tiles correctly vs many killers in the game is less skillful than either pressing e at a pallet and hoping the killer doesn't have good timing or hoping the killer loses patience when not at a pallet. Anything that's telegraphed is easy to react to besides blight with dh as well. With both my own games and all of the content I watch on both sides, I can count on one hand how many times I have seen a really skilled dh play since 6.1.0.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380879#Comment_3380879
Not even close. Killers can easily switch to corrupt, sloppy deadlocck.
Changing base healing speed is like changing base movement speed of killers to 105/110% instead of 110/115. Or like to make M1 cooldown to 4 seconds instead of 2.7.
They didn't say anything about the healing speed which I disagree with. I was making fun of their rant about dh.
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- dh vs blight is over rated and spirit can wait it out like any other killer.
- After waiting out dh for the 90000th time it just gets boring and tedious to play against.
You know what's more interactive and skillful than dh? Normal chase in general.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380800#Comment_3380800
I don’t see slugging that often but when I do I find Unbreakable is way more versatile. And hardly anyone runs that. I can’t see people getting much value out of Exponential. I rarely do, personally.
It's value is in end game slugging. When the killer is fighting for more than one kill. If a killer is camping in end game you set up a boon that has a radius with the hook in it and if the killer does anything but hook the tradee then value.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
Why not just start with a medkit nerf and see how that goes first? Nerfing circle of healing and regular altruistic healing speeds on top of medkits and medkit add-ons? Have you considered what that’s gonna be like for players going against a killer like legion?
I get that you’re listening to feedback on here and that’s great but it seems like you never try to implement things in steps to try it out first. Just taking a massive sledgehammer to every nerf and overdoing it appears to be the way.
Didnt you just see this with the announcement to nerf eruption and then going back on some of it because of how extreme that was? Also how is this helping to bridge the gap between solo and swf by nerfing individual healing abilities into the ground?
You are survivor biased. You don't realize that the killer can do nothing if the totem that is blessed is place in out of the way spot. Not only is self caring busted, but 24 second self care for the entire team regardless of the start up time is busted.
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@ehe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380879#Comment_3380879
entire patch is just everyone having to watch the perks they earned and prestige for be ruined, just so they can be replaced by some other meta in a future DLC. im almost convinced this whole patch is a marketing scheme for the anniversary.
Uh what CoH on survivor side? I guess the entirety of killer side is dlc
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Survivor mains you got what you wanted.
Gen kick meta is gutted. Can't wait to see the next perk you blame for not getting 4e's every game. This patch is proportionally close in power loss for each side.
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Exponential continues to be an under rated perk.
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@Grum said:
Maybe actually consider why the usage rates are what they are, before making changes. For example:
Billy has two good addons - those addons naturally have high usage rate *because the rest of his addons suck* and those two are almost required to make him feel decent to play. Those addons get nerfed.
Blight basically has no bad addons - the usage rate is spread pretty even because you can basically pick any addons and end up busted strong. No Blight addons nerf.
Dead Hard has high usage rate because it's the only exhaustion perk that introduces any kind of mind gameable interaction with the killer, as oppose to simply rocketing away and making them immediately drop chase. Nerfed, no fun alternatives. Even if people wanted to pretend there was nothing you could do against it at pallets (there was), the sensible change would be to make it so pallets couldn't be dropped for a short delay after using it.
The sensible change is to completely rework this perk. It's very problematic for some killers regardless of what you think such as demo and huntress. For others it's really not that big of a deal. But what you don't understand is that waiting it out is just tedious after the nine trillionth time.
Killer: "dead hard?"
Survivor: *dead hards after 1-5 seconds*
Killer: *hits the survivor with the most neutral face possible*
Killer: "dead hard"
It simply disrupts the flow of the game is boring to play around after years of it. I get it man, you never wanted anything to change in this game where survivors had the same meta for 5 years. That's simply not realistic in any life service game though. If 70% of killers are whining about the perk whether its like my opinion in that it's boring to play around and wait it out or it's low to mid level killer players who just haven't learned to play around it. You just have to do something with a perk that is so widely hated by the community. Just like eruption and the gen kick meta which are also boring and tedious to play around, obviously you'll agree with that though.
I wouldn't say I hate it but it simply bores me. If I wanted to just not play around it every game I could run alch ring every game and ignore the 2 seconds of distance survivor would get on me if didn't decide to bait it out. But the current state of alch ring blight in this game also bores me and makes me feel sorry for survivors.
Also while it might take a tiny bit of patience and skill to pull off but it's greatly exaggerated. I have seen so few good dh's in the last 9 months that make me think a survivor is cracked it's incredible.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileSneakyPuddingPipeHype-xxxFgtswgZpWnfqS
^ that's a good dh play, if survivors had the skill and patience to do that often I might not be complaining about it right now. That's a one in a million dh play though, probably an even lower percentile actually.
Although I'm sure you will ignore this and then post this exact same thread tomorrow.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380715#Comment_3380715
On the League comparison. League has some bad metas as well that people didn't like. But since Riot has constantly been changing things so nothing stays dominate for too long, the bad metas come and go.
Exactly, a two week patch cycle makes it so almost every thing comes and goes in metas. Plus in league everything is playable for up until diamond. The only champ I have seen be meta for over a year and a half in the last 5 years(playing for 10) is fiora.
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@[Deleted User] said:
"Why? I never understood the obsession of killing the meta", I am pretty sure having stale meta is not okay either. Multiple games do so, every few months from what I've been told (like OW or LoL, if someone can confirm).
Anyhow, having a meta is alright but not for 6 years straight. Even 6 months is too much tbh, a stale meta is an issue.
League is literally on a 2 week patch cycle most of the year. Most dbd players just don't realize that a game dies or at the very least bleeds players if metas are not changed regularly. I like dbd but I basically have only been playing some survivor for the last few months due to the boredom of playing vs the same perks every single game. I love blight, but if I had to go against him every single game I would get bored in no time, same thing for survivor perks.
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This isn't even a dbd specific thing. Things should be nerfed and buffed until they are out of the meta, not specifically because of popularity. There is a reason league is such a long standing and popular game. Please don't hit me with the "it's an assym bro" argument that is in itself irrelevant. The longer the game stagnates and doesn't do changes the more people will stop playing.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379220#Comment_3379220
Can’t wait to play blight against survivors who are injured the whole game. GGEZ’s in the chat.
It will be GGEZ but I don't know how fun that will be.
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@Rovend said:
where can i find the new patch notes? all i see is the one from March 6th
Look up dev update march 2023 dbd
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I don't know how people are defending altruistic healing being nerfed. 32 seconds for 2 survivors to heal up is perfectly fine, 24 seconds for an entire team to self care was not fine.
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I 100% agree, who was complaining about base altruistic heal speeds? I don't know if I seen one person say that needed to be changed. Of courses CoH and med-kits nerfs are great though.
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I was a hag main in the past. I don't know how you call this a nerf. The entire healing meta is being nerfed, which is the only reason she fell from an S tier killer and nothing else. A flashlight countering a killer was always bad by design and hags issue is that she easily stomps majority of the player base, so adding in that extra trap counter play is good.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364281#Comment_3364281
Apparently it's more killer doing their job meta that sucks. Killers should be walking clowns who only scare people but never harm anyone at all.
Nah, interactivity is hard to find in this game. Gen kick meta is uninteractive and not skillful for either side. Majority of killers either have no counter play vs survivors or the survivor has no counterplay vs them, it's never both players being able to do something at the same time except for very few killers. There's a reason anybody who isn't completely biased backs up base kit blight, he is the perfect killer for both roles. If you go against blight the least skillful options for both sides are removed from the game. If you go against clown you run him until the map tells you no. Most players on both sides don't realize the other side just wants ample opportunity to express their skill. Survivor mains are clueless and killer mains want to play weak killers that if buffed would feel beyond awful to play against without a full rework. There are so few players on this forum that are not biased either way it's laughable. I am for sure biased towards blight but it's simply undeniable that he creates the best possible game if both sides are equal in skill.
Like @edgarpoop seems to be the most unbiased and knowledgeable player on this forum by far. Pulsar is generally consistent but then he'll say something like dcing is fine and it being punished any harder would be a bad thing.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378777#Comment_3378777
if you let yourself get light burnt by a flashlight then you're bad lmao. flashburn got nerfed extremely hard
Ok. But what is the actual point in lightburn for a killer that is that bad already? The people playing wraith are typically not that good/ are new in general anyway.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364668#Comment_3364668
No #########? Holding M1 on a gen for a minute and a half is already boring enough. Anything that increases that time just makes it more boring.
Thats one thing I miss about old DbD, the lack of gen regression perks made people run more chase oriented perks since chases were harder to deal with. There were more pallets which also meant that the majority of games you were able to at least get 1 good chase in as a Survivor. Gens wouldnt necessarily pop that fast either considering the average skill level just wasnt that high (still isn't) and there werent many perks that sped up gen progress either.
A chase meta is probably the healthiest direction this game could go, considering its basically the only time both sides have an interaction with each other
Chase meta is fine for killer but if survivor has something like old dh/old IW combo then chase meta can't really exist properly.
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People would rather go against a killer that plays fair than a fair killer if that makes sense. Plus camping and tunneling is rather boring.
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Wraith I have no clue. Although it would be nice if they removed flashlights effectiveness vs hag in exchange another way to play around her traps could be added.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377347#Comment_3377347
I have to admit this I agree with. Imo DH itself mechanically on paper is fine, but I certainly can't disagree that it is far overused. It's a shame they can't find a way to limit usage without nerfing it into the ground. Like limiting it to 2 players per match or something.
It reminds me of the tunneling/facecamping argument. They are legitimate tactics, but unpleasant to play against. Except DH is an issue at high mmr rather than low and is more counterable than tunneling/face camping. Plus it depends if ypu find DH unpleasant to play against, which personally I dont, but then I counter it a lot. If I swung into it more I'd probably hate it too. Which is kind of the point of my thread, to see how many people can counter it versus swing into it constantly.
My point is that it is quite easy to counter especially with blight vs 99% of survivors. I just don't want to play around it every chase anymore. Other than when I don't have rushes the counterplay is the exact same as old dh most of the time and I feel exactly as I did before 6.1.0 again.
If the meta never actually changes and the game stays the same at the core level then the game becomes extremely repetitive. The survivor meta especially as been the same for far too long, It's like if I had to play against the same 2 killers for a year as survivor. I don't think there is any downside to just nerfing dh into the ground until the meta changes after the next one and then reworking it. Again, the perk is easy to counter majority of the time but it's not something that should have to be dealt with every chase along with the counterplay breaking the flow of a chase imo.
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Dominating this games player base is easy. Most people simply don't try to improve much or don't care in general. The game isn't that hard and is broken in multiple aspects. The only thing that can rival a blight with 2000 hours on that character alone is a comparable swf which is the other sides max skill ceiling in terms of game play.
League is infinitely more balanced and with many more players better than me after over a decade of playing. While dbd has already killed my enjoyment due to the sheer amount of unskilled players on both sides.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377695#Comment_3377695
It's a subjective perk. For some people it helps, for others its useless. So i just put it in B tier as a middle point.
It's hard to judge how a FOV buff is useful
I don't think you can rate a perk based on the small amount of people that require it to play. I only use it because it makes blight feel much smoother to play, the only real affect it has is giving survivors a wider angle to blind me.
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What's the reasoning behind shadowborne being so high? I can't really see any competitive advantage to that perk even though I use it every game.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377050#Comment_3377050
Sounds like a risky tactic. Because if killer pauses the hit and simply stays on the surv tgen they can basic swing at any time, they are just handing killer a down.
I said this another thread
If low level players don't know how to counter dh and the high level players are just bored of playing against it why does it need to stay? Everytime I watch a good streamer regardless of their main role they say "dead hard" in the most monotonous way with a completely blank face. The perk has been meta for 6 years, dbd players need to understand it's way overdue to be f tier for a bit.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377090#Comment_3377090
No, because it's fun to use and try to get value out of. Contrary to what most of the people in this awful community seem to think, the game should actually be fun to play.
Also, it was already nerfed into the ground.
Alch ring/ iri tag is fun to play, I'm sure it's so fun to play against right?
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In my experience most survivors would rather play vs alch ring blight who plays fair than play against a tunneling killer. The only salt I have gotten about alch ring is from comp players, I don't really run it often after 6.1.0 but I almost never receive salt.
Personally I would rather play against a survivor who has full potential in chase, over leaving them with one health state upon unhook. If you want to win enough to tunnel just run c33 and press right click it's easier to win like that over tunneling on clown.
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The real question is how do you individually buff some killer without making them extremely unfun to go against? How do you buff clown without just making him really fast or survivors really slow with his power. If they make his slow go from 15 to 25 or his speed go from 10 to 15/20 he will just run you down with no skill expression on the killer side. A lot of killers simply just don't have the kits to allow them to be an A or even B tier killer.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376291#Comment_3376291
R u referring to his potential counterplay to dh that I mentioned?
yes.
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I think a lot of it is a kit thing. There's only so much you can do to adjust some powers that aren't really weird or a stat check for the killer to have. Blights power is simple but allows for a wide range of add-ons, most of which are effective but not broken.
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I have never seen another person on these forums talk about how blight interacts with dh. They all just say "telegraphed power is free dh"
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It's laughable people defend 3-gens with perks when it's the most boring thing I have ever played against in a video game. It would be hard to differentiate a player playing like this and a bot doing the same. At this point I have no fun doing anything but chase on either side, watching a killer turn around 12 meters from the closest part of their 3 gen is just boring. I mained hag and did the exact same thing when I started playing, but I didn't have these perks to play the game for me.
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I have gotten one and given one.
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@Grum said:
Because it's ****** and unfun for the people you're playing against.
And probably why every survivor is intent on cranking gens as quickly as possible and then leaving; because they've been conditioned to do so in response to every killer tunneling every match and then holding a 3 gen hostage until everyone dies of boredom.
Yeah no. Survivors who wanted to win always played efficiently and there was plenty of that before 6.1.0. Your implying survivors didn't try before that patch, which is wrong. Even if that was the case that would imply that could not try and still win before that patch.
Yes, the current killer meta is boring and getting tunneled isn't that fun for most people. But that in itself didn't really change anything on the survivor side, it just made some killer players boosted.
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I think it boils down to patience for a lot of killer players. They wait like 1 second and then swing, or they simply don't have the patience to wait at all. For me I'll get hit by 3-4 dh on a tricky map if the survivors can actually force me to flick for a down. It's just tedious to play around every single chase though. Whether I have to bump one more time and down them instantly after they dh or slowly walk up to them and sniff their neck until they panic.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileSneakyPuddingPipeHype-xxxFgtswgZpWnfqS
On a side note that dh in the clip above is probably the best I have seen in a very long time. Not only did she fully wait out the first lethal rush, she even sat there and waited for half a second while Lilith stared at her during slam duration.
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My friends passive is getting tunneled so I take bt for him. 20 seconds of haste is under rated.
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Those old animations were not great, I truly believe people are just looking through nostalgia.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
You can thank tunneling for this.
If we couldn’t get hit immediately off hook, we wouldn’t have been downed after getting farmed off hook, or the killer coming back to hook to tunnel, leading BHVR to make basekit BT. Now that it is, people have found a way to use it to help their fellow survivors.
You act like this hasn't been a thing long before basekit bt was a thing. Bodyblocking with your anti tunnel perk is the one way you will get me to tunnel you.
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Pretty sure this guy made this account to bait people.
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They need to make her passive slowdown work better and her active condemn hard nerfed. Probably the most boring playsyle with knight 3-gens.