Reinami
Reinami
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@caligraph said:
Yeah maybe it should deactivate on protection hits that down you. If you aren't being tunneled you shouldnt get DS.
That wouldn't quite solve the problem, because the "protection hit" happens on the endurance hit, not the down hit. It would at least help because then you can "wait it out" but they can take perks like OTR to make that impossible.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687266#Comment_3687266
We are not removing RNG from the rest of their team. We aren't accounting for the Meg doing a Glyph, the Sable in the basement with an Invocation or the Dwight in a locker.
You are balancing it around an efficient team when the VAST VAST VAST majority of teams do not function that way. I understand that's all you care about, and we've had this discussion before, but it's not realistic.
And that is precisely the problem.
You are looking at survivors actively not doing their objective. This is solo queue low mmr behavior. The game should not be balanced in such a way the survivors are able to still win if they just refuse to do their objective. Otherwise it would literally be impossible for killers to ever get a single kill.
This would be like saying that killers should also win if they just run the the basement and stare at the wall.
Why is it that one side gets to have the benefit of "not playing efficiently" (I.E. literally doing the objective they are given) and still have a chance to win, but the other side doesn't?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687199#Comment_3687199
No offense, but you are creating a mathematically perfect scenario for a game built around RNG. That about ends the argument for me.
We will simply have to see how it plays out in-game. It's likely it won't be an issue; especially when one considers how many factors you need in order to have it be an issue, including having at least two good Survivors.
We do agree that tunneling needs to be a systemic change. DS isn't going to fix anything.
We are removing the RNG as a variable by assuming the survivor is doing the least skillful thing the survivor can do, literally shift +w to a corner of the map. There is no RNG to account for there, because they aren't using loops, or pallets or windows, or anything. They do the least skillful thing a survivor can do in a chase, that i feel most people would agree with is "boring"
If anything, that RNG ADDS time to the chase beyond that. I'm assuming that this is the LEAST amount of time that should be wasted here assuming they don't do anything other than the bare minimum. If this all happens near the killer shack for example, it could significantly increase these times if the survivor uses those structures.
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@Depressedlegion said:
So some dude said he is reporting him for tunneling and a little bit of slugging for "boosting and tunneling" , but I'm curious if he's actually gonna get me banned because it would be really annoying.
Its not bannable. Play how you want, but if you want to win, nothing wrong with that
Read the e-book "Playing to Win" by game designer David Sirlin.
Here is an excerpt from the beginning of the book:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.
Always remember, that your objective is good and right and true, and never listen to anyone else who tells you otherwise.
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@Garboface said:
These games are brutal. It's like every killer is trying out for the Olympics and they might die if they don't make the team.
People can make whatever claims they want about tunneling being ineffective but it's shutdown nearly every game of the last 20 or so I've played. This, when there hasn't even been a gen finished. Can a guy make some points before being steamrolled?
Seriously, is there something I don't know about going on?
I could say the same thing about 50% of the games i go against survivors who run 4 commodius toolboxes, try and send me to garden of joy, and use discord to get 87 perks for free.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687133#Comment_3687133
Only point I want to actively disagree with is Hug Tech blights are only going against top tier survivors. I've see quite a few Blights (not all) use hug tech and I assure you I am no top tier survivor but instead very very average.
If you are average you are definitely not going against people intentionally hug teching. Average players are getting nurses who have < 50% kill rate. Average players are massively losing to killers like the pig because they don't know how to deal with traps.
So either:
- You aren't going against blights who hug tech effectively and just think you are.
- The blights you are going against aren't hug teching on purpose and don't know what they are doing
- You are not as "average" as you think you are, and are actually going against pretty good blights
Perhaps you are better than you think you are, and are in the bottom of the top MMR bracket. I have a whole post talking about why people who are there are going to have worse games due to matchmaking.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687117#Comment_3687117
“you've been caught, and you shouldn't be rewarded for being caught.”
You should be rewarded for getting all 5 gens done
You are, by finishing your objective.
The point is, adrenaline working off the hook gave a FREE ESCAPE to the survivor. Removing that is not giving the killer a FREE KILL.
The killer already earned that hook, by getting it before the gens finished. They earned it through normal gameplay. So now the survivors need to coordinate and work together to get the unhook and have them all safely get out, instead of being given a free escape because of the perk.
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@ferx said:
As a someone who plays both side and top MMR on both I genuinely think this game is not playable as a survivor anymore (at least If you don't play as squad). The killers I'm facing with something beyond sweaty&toxic it's far beyond definable.
The doctor I played against today face camped 2 people (a.k.a shocking the hook continually without increasing the camping bar) until survivor dies after that he slugged other two to death going back and forth as he got over them for no reason... This is only one game, my all survivor games are like this, extremely tryhard tunneling with p100 nurses/blights like there is money prize on the game or face camp with killers who still have ability to do it.
Playing as a survivor is nothing but depressing and sad especially if you play solo or duo. I don't know if it's about my region but DBD I play is literally something different than from the DBD played by popular DBD content creators. It feels like the killers I'm playing against are in the competition of making the match as miserable as possible for the survivors for no reason.
I love DBD but it's so sad I can't even play one proper enjoyable match with my friend without getting left on the ground for 5 minutes or getting tunneled by P100 nurse. Additionally they insult survivors in end game chat after all things they did and reports literally do nothing... These all things I wrote happen almost every match even though I don't do the slightest disrespectful thing towards to killer.
If you are top MMR, you are likely playing in a SWF group, at that point you should win the vast majority of your games. If you are playing solo queue you probably aren't high MMR (no offense, its hard to organize with randos and win) so you aren't running into top tier killers.
Secondly, playing "sweaty" is not toxic. For every game you play against that "sweaty" killer, that killer also played against a SWF squad running 4 commodius toolboxes, sending them to garden of joy, and using discord to get 87 perks for free. And i'll tell you, it may feel "bad" to go against a sweaty killer when you are not. But nothing feels worse than going against a team like that as killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687157#Comment_3687157
Now we're talking about UB apparently, very well.
You've now burnt an important resource and you've still wasted the Survivors time. You are in a winning position as there are still two Survivors doing nothing.
You seem to think killers have all this time in the world. Do the simple math. Here is the scenario.
You hook a survivor, and someone unhooks them, hell lets say before you even finish walking away, lets say they unhook and you are 12 meters away (that's about 2 lunges worth of distance). So you turn around Here are the possible scenarios if the unhooked guy body blocks. We'll do it assuming they don't even use pallets or windows and just shift + w to a corner of the map.
- You hit the unhooked guy, ignore them, and continue chasing the other one
- You hit the unhooked guy, chase them and slug them
- You hit the unhooked guy, chase them and pick them up to eat the DS
Lets do the math in these scenarios.
Scenario 1: You hit the unhooked guy, ignore them, and continue chasing the other one
- You chase the survivors and it takes you 14 seconds to get into lunge range
- You hit the body blocker, and now you eat a 2.7 second cooldown. During this time, the actual target gains about 12 meters.
- You take 14 seconds to get into lunge range again and hit them.
- They get a speed boost, and it takes you 18 seconds to get into lunge range and you hit them again. Now you have your down
You just spent 14 + 2.7 + 14 + 18. During this time, the 1st survivor finishes their endurance and hops on a gen for about 18 seconds. During the rest of the time the other 2 survivors have been on gens the whole time. This amounts to 115.4 seconds of progress across 3 different gens.
Scenario 2: You hit the unhooked guy, chase them and slug them and they use UB to get up
- You chase the survivors and it takes you 14 seconds to get into lunge range
- You hit the body blocker, and now you eat a 2.7 second cooldown. During this time they get endurance, and gain about 12 meters of distance. Taking about 18 seconds to get into lunge range to hit them again.
- You walk away and start going to another survivor. It's probably going to take you around 15-20 seconds to cross the map and go to where you need to be. Lets be generous and say 15 seconds.
- You find another survivor and you start your typical shift + w chase, these chases take about 60 seconds to hook (i have the math if you want, but i feel like i have shown you the math before, but if you want it let me know).
- The original guy takes 24 seconds to be picked up from unbreakable, and then probably another 10-15 to find a gen. The person who unhooked the original guy, also probably takes around 30 seconds to find a gen.
- Based on all that, you have 1 survivor on gens the entire time. Your second survivor that gets chased is on gens for the entire time minus 60 seconds. You have a 3rd survivor, the unhooker. on a gen for the entire time minus 30 seconds, and you have the unhooked guy off the gen for about 40 seconds. That all totals up to
- Survivor 1: 109.7 seconds (a full gen)
- Survivor 2 (chased guy): 49.7 seconds (a half gen)
- Survivor 3 (unhooker): 79.7 seconds (most of a gen)
- Survivor 4 (unhooked guy): 69.7 seconds (about 3/4 of a gen)
So during that time, you got 2 hooks, and survivors finished a gen outright and nearly finished 2 others, and halfway finished a 4th. So what, 1 full gen and nearly at 1 gen left? Seems balanced.
Scenario 3: You hit the unhooked guy, chase them, and eat the DS and chase them again
- You chase the survivors and it takes you 14 seconds to get into lunge range
- You hit them, they get a speed boost gaining 18 seconds of distance.
- You hit them again, they go down taking 2.7 seconds.
- You pick them up, taking 3 seconds.
- They DS you, stunning you for 5 seconds, gaining 20 meters of distance
- It takes you 27.5 seconds to catch up.
- You hit them again
- Pick them up for 3 seconds.
- Walk to a hook ~10 seconds
- Hook them 1.5 seconds
You just spent 14 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 27.5 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 79.7 seconds.
During which time, 2 of the survivors were on a gen, and the unhooker probably took around 30 seconds to find a gen. So the survivors finished nearly 2 gens, and a 3rd gen is around half. And now you have a 2nd hook.
This means that option 1 is your best option assuming no mistakes are made. But now imagine you again, are trying to not tunnel, so the survivors repeat it once more and they get 230.8 seconds of progress on gens. Then they do it again and its 346.2 seconds of progress. And oh look, all the gens are done.
Now, without any of these if the unhooked person can't body block (because of fear of tunneling), you have scenario 1, but with the unhooked guy being injured much sooner:
- You chase the survivors and it takes you 14 seconds to get into lunge range
- You hit them they get a speed boost and gain 18 seconds of distance
- You hit them again and down them, pick them up, walk to a hook, hook them.
Now you spent 14 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 49.2 seconds. Where you have 2 survivors with half a gen done, and the unhooked guy spent probably 20-30 seconds getting on a gen so basically barely any progress there, or spending time healing themselves. That is SIGNIFICANTLY less time.
The problem with stronger DS here is the person who does the body blocking now isn't afraid of getting tunneled, they WANT to get tunneled because it wastes more time. Whereas before they spent the duration of their time trying to NOT get tunneled. If someone tried to body block me before, DS was weaker, so i wasn't afraid of it as much, and i just wait out the basekit BT, if they have OTR, its still a decent chase, but again, the DS is weaker, so its counterable and because of this perception that it is a "bad perk" people typically aren't running it anyway.
Even doing this ONE TIME is going to waste so much more of a killer's time than it would if they could properly NOT TUNNEL.
Last but not least. The solution to tunneling is not to buff a perk that requires someone to pay money to get the DLC for, or wait for it to show up in the shrine with random chance. The solution to tunneling is a systemic fix that the game fundamentally is designed in a way such that survivors cannot be removed from the match "early" and the game is balanced around 4 survivors being in the game, not that 4 survivors being in the game means that the killer cannot keep up with them unless they end chases in 20 seconds.
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@Smoe said:
Yes it is and thank god for that.
Care to explain why?
If you are going against blights hug teching, you are probably high MMR, meaning you should be able to deal with it. Do you see blights winning constantly in comp, because it certainly isn't happening as much as say a nurse does.
If you are average MMR, you aren't going against blights who even know what hug teching is. Or if they do, they do it poorly.
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Unbreakable.
I guarantee the build will be:
DS + Unbreakable + OTR + Dead hard.
If they body block you, you MUST hit them, giving the other person time to get away so now you have 2 choices:
- Continue chasing the other guy
- Chase the person you just gave endurance to.
The other guy is much further away now and the chase will last significantly longer, at least 25+ seconds longer so that is not a great option. If you chase the person who has endurance and you hit them, now you have 2 options:
- You pick them up
- You don't pick them up.
If you pick them up, you eat a DS, and it all repeats and then they have dead hard for after
If you don't pick them up, they have unbreakable, and the amount of time you spend trying to find someone else means they pick themselves up, meanwhile during this time the other 3 survivors have been working gens. By the time you get into another chase, the guy you downed now is up again and on a gen.
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@Nebula said:
Does the hitbox collision improvement confirm that hug tech will be removed with it?
If so, is this a good change?
I'm conflicted on removing things that increase skill ceilings and promote skill expression. Yes, Blight is dominant, especially the good ones that can utilize hug tech to get hits at almost every pallet, but do we really want to lower skill ceilings?
They said it does somewhere.
And i agree with you. Only really top tier blights were doing hug tech. And only top tier survivors were going against blights using hug tech. In your average game, the blight doesn't even know what hug tech is let alone how to do it. So it wasn't really hurting the average player.
What they did was remove a high kill expression on a killer that would otherwise have very little (yay so he just gets to dash around, you'll never hit anyone with him anymore, may as well just play billy)
It boggles the mind why they continue to nerf these types of things, while all the "survivor techs" are continuously staying in the game, and while nurse continues to exist in the state she is in since her inception. And i say this as a nurse main.
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IDK why they would remove something that only affects top tier gameplay. Average blight players aren't hug teching, and its not OP against SWF kill squads.
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@ownoka said:
Is proximity camping a quality of life issue or a permissible strategy?
Is tunneling bad for the community or condoned by Behavior Developers?
Should killers be able to effectively stand atop the basement to prevent dehooking?
Yes, we could talk survivor ethics, gen rushing, 360s and juking, but that is for another thread.
If the devs don't want something to happen in the game, they should design the game in a way that it is not possible to do that thing. Otherwise, it is fair game.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
adrenaline is dead in solo que. No point in running a perk that punishes you even you are not dead but all 5 gens are done. In swf yeah you still can get value because your team knows you have the perk so they can 99 the gen to unhook you first. The freddy change was needed and honestly im ok with a shorter speed boost. But the fact that you can do all 5 gens and not be dead just hooked an you get nothing its just a baffling change.
What exactly was the point in nerfing ultimate weapon? I thought the perk was fine just needed the blindness to be removed but the longer cooldown and shorter activation is just a terrible nerf. 🤦♂️Nice both perks are basically dead, thank you dbd community for always whining about non issues. I know yall are gonna start whining about windows and pain res next great job guys
Ultimate weapon is a buff.
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@oreoslurpee said:
i saw otz's opinion on DS, and it really made me wonder, is DS really as bad as people make it out to be? it still does its job great, though i do understand how short the stun feels on the survivor side. since its obviously being changed, what do you guys think the change(s) could be? a timer pause, timer removal, stun increase?
@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409460/is-ds-really-as-bad-as-people-proclaim
Yes the perk sucks, stun time is just way to short. The perk is only good for resetting endurance for dead hard
@Mazoobi said:
In most cases, it is a bad perk.
You have to pretty much go down at a really good loop to maximize its use now not to mention certain killers can catch up the second they recover from the stun.
My question is simple.
If the perk is bad, why is it run by a survivor in every single comp game still?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686302#Comment_3686302
The fact you have 'two' playable characters justifies the time switching. Otherwise, there's zero downside and twins becomes SS+ tier.
Having 2 playable characters is the power though. The problem is that you don't have time to hook. Victor is not THAT strong that it justifies such a long time to switch.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I dont think that another Survivor is really needed, because this would be the same situation as of now.
I would guess that your idea is pretty on point - Victor will down a Survivor and be on that Survivor. This means, it is impossible to slug multiple people with Victor. And while he pins down a Survivor, the Survivor will not be able to recover or crawl, which allows Charlotte to move over.
So they make it that Charlotte can actually reach the Survivor to hook them and meanwhile they prevent that VIctor can snowball.
At least this is my interpretation, which is almost the same as yours, just I dont think that another Survivor can help there, because then it would be even easier for Survivors to run in pairs to counter them. (Which is already the thing, just that you need to crush Victor in order to avoid snowballing)
Probably, hopefully they do something to improve the twins as well because the reason slugging is "strong" is because hooking takes so much time. In the optimal situation you have to:
- Chase the survivor as charlotte, hit them
- Wait 2.7 seconds.
- Put victor out, which takes like 4 seconds
- Chase them with victor
- Down them with victor (which is sometimes easier said than done
- Wait for the hit cooldown
- Switch back to charlotte which takes several seconds
- Walk over to the person
- Then pick them up (3 second animation)
- Then walk to a hook ~7-8 seconds
- Sit through the hook animation for 1.5 seconds.
There is so much time that is spent by switching back and forth, and then walking over to the person, and then hooking them. It makes slugging more viable because you just don't have time to do that.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
In your opinion, how many kills should Killers be balanced around, and why?
This should assume that the Killer and Survivors are equally skilled, so this should NOT make odd assumptions about one side being overly skilled against an opposing side that is new to the game. Also, this should NOT factor in perks vs perks. This should be vanilla vs vanilla. A baseline. Lower kills per match would balance them towards being weaker, higher kills toward stronger. SoloQ and SWF should not be factored into this.
I ask this because I have seen some comments here and there that suggest the playerbase actually has wildly different expectations of how strong Killers should be. Some seem to feel that Killers (overall and not specifically) have too many setbacks to be effective, while others seem to feel that Killers are too easy and should have to be challenged more for kills.
Also, it's worth discussing the idea of how many kills should be seen as "default" when a player is playing normally against an equally skilled opposing side. Should the challenge for Killer be to get a single kill at all, or to kill the entire opposing side?
Edit: Assuming this thread gets enough feedback, I might keep a tally so everyone can see the current "score".
None, kills should not be the balancing factor. Removing a survivor from the game early should not be possible (tunneling)
- Remove the 4% mechanic
- Survivors share the first hook state, meaning the earliest you can remove a survivor from the game is 6 hooks if you hard tunnel that person.
- Balance the game around hooks
- 0-4 hook states is a loss for the killer
- 4--8 hook states is a draw for the killer
- 8-12 hook states is a win for the killer
- Hook states only count if they are natural (I.E. the timer goes for 60 seconds, or a new hook action) not if you slug all 4 survivors and hook them all, you only get 4 hook states (a loss)
Survivors win and lose as a team instead of this weird thing where if i do 5 gens, and unhook every survivor teammate and run the killer for 5 minutes, and then in the endgame collapse i go for a hook save, and that survivor gets out but i don't, should not count as a loss for me. Then make escaping only matter for bloodpoints.
This addresses many concerns survivors have:
- Tunneling is bad, because if you tunnel someone for 6 hooks, that is 6 minutes (not including the chase time) and 3 survivors can do 5 gens in less than 6 minutes and the killer gets few hooks.
- Camping is bad because its about hooks and not kills, and you have to camp for 6 hook states which again ,is 6 minutes, and the other 3 survivors will easily get out.
- Slugging is bad because you want hook states, so letting people bleed out on the ground counts against you.
- Killers feel better because in order for this world to be a reality the gens MUST be slowed down (my proposal is to nerf all gen defense perks, and massively buff the killer's basekit regression, I.E. 10-15% gen kick regression, double, or even triple passive regression after that, basekit corrupt that lasts a short time and also blocks hex totems etc. then go and halve, or even more, nerf the gen defense perks)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684524#Comment_3684524
They are not fixing it.
It is clear this perk was designed with the first concern in mind being 'this must not obstruct the killer too much'. It was in a worse state on the PTB, and it didn't get a straight buff, it got one coupled with a nerf, keeping the perk in its absolutely abysmal state. They specifically took steps to ensure it wouldn't get out of that position.
We know that BHVR is very stubborn about mistakes they make, as they haven't fixed Ruin or DS, nor did they ever fix Boons. They're not willing to deviate from convention, as none of the boons got any parameter adjustments to make them function better. Hell, they don't even seem willing to consider letting Weaving Spiders phase through gen-blocks.
So we're stuck with 120 seconds of charge time, which means BHVR has painted itself into a corner. Nothing you can come up with as an effect can justify 120 seconds of charge time, without also unleashing a tidal wave of killer complaints. This perk type is going to either be trash for survivors or perceived as OP by killers.
And they don't want the latter to happen.
So it -must- stay throw tier.
It's not what the killswitch is intended for, but I do think that All Things Wicked would be better if Sable just had 2 perks.
How are we "stuck with 120 seconds" like is it impossible to change for some reason? Has the perk become self aware and the devs aren't allowed to change it now?
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684524#Comment_3684524
There's no way I can believe that the devs play-tested this perk and then decided it's viable. The only conclusion is that they made it bad on purpose, probably so they don't have to worry about it being overpowered. Even if a perk is bad, at the very least a survivor perk should be a net benefit for the survivor and not a net benefit for the killer.
Right, so please read what i said. Yes, they made it "bad" on purpose, because they don't want this perk to come out too strong, because it is an entirely new mechanic and they aren't sure the direction they want to go with it. So better to start off a little weak, and figure out where it falls in line and how the mechanic is working, and then make changes to the perk or the mechanic itself.
So, in a way, yes, i'm saying they made it bad on purpose. But there is a good reason for that.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684536#Comment_3684536
It already got buffed and still sucks I highly doubt the devs are going to do anything to it again.
Because it isn't possible to buff it again? Everything in the game only ever gets one change allowed and then they can't ever change it again?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684622#Comment_3684622
The 1 million login bonus at the start of the Event was for compensation for those that lost any BP offerings and for the purchase of the Event offerings from the bloodweb.
What about people who buy more than 333 of them? Because its not hard to do when there are usually 1 or 2 per level of the bloodweb and we are all getting like 300k+ bloodpoints per game.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XK6Y9GE6WRXC/image.png
https://twitter.com/deadbydaylight/status/1772292504903118956?s=46&t=MOM9e-MaWyIGCyqm4Ri7dw
Guessing there’s gonna be more cars on the road, eh?
So they fixed it by adding more unmindgamable pallets in the middle of the map that are just predrop/no-skill pallets? Hopefully they fix the buildings though, each building having multiple god windows is stupid.
But given their track record of "fixing" garden of joy by making the main building even stronger i'm not holding onto any hope.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684524#Comment_3684524
The perk sucks, that is all that matters
And everyone knows it. Did you miss the part where i said that it probably is going to get buffed?
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683493#Comment_3683493
No, it's not. both perks are of poorly design and are not healthy for the game regardless of which one is more effective or not.
A perk that completely prevents survivors from progressing their game is bad design. GE blocks all generators and old eruption applied the incapacitated status. GE could block the generator for 1s which would make it horrible, but still a bad design.
In order to get value from grim embrace, you need to:
- Spread hooks across multiple survivors, thus not tunneling them.
- Actively LEAVE the hook in order for it to activate, thus not camping.
- After the 4th stack it tells you where a player is exactly, blocks all gens and ACTIVELY encourages you to leave the hook again to go after that person.
Tell me again how it is "badly designed"
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684482#Comment_3684482
This is what the Perk is supposed to do. It is not bugged.
It is a Killer-Perk. Nothing more. But it does not deserve to be killswitched, because it is not broken in the sense that it does not work as intended or causes game-breaking bugs.
This attitude of "it is a killer perk" is completely misguided.
Let me ask you, do you TRULY believe, that the perk designers at behavior, sat around and said: "######### survivor players, let's make a survivor perk that is so bad that it actually is a killer perk, that'll show those losers"
Or is it more reasonable that because this is a brand new mechanic to the game, that they are being super conservative with it because they aren't fully sure how it is all going to work out?
The perk is likely going to get buffed at some point, and pretending its not, or pretending that BHVR is in some way intentionally doing this is disingenuous.
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@Seraphor said:
People asked to make it more chase oriented, they did.
In theory, not in practice.
Every SM still plonks their drones right next to a gen, and then immediately returns to that gen the moment their drone is deactivated.
Here's the question i have for you though.
So what?
With the 8 kicks max on a gen, she does that, you run away, she either:
A) kicks the gen, now she has less kicks
B) Doesn't kick the gen, your progress you did stays.
C) Chases you
If she kicks the gen, you just wait till she leaves and go back, repair the gen back, and by the time she gets to you she has to kick again, leaving her less kicks.
If she doesn't kick the gen, your progress you made stays and you just go back to it and continue working it.
If she chases you, great the rest of your team has time to do stuff.
So you just do that for a bit until you finish the gen. If she refuses to commit to a chase, you WILL outrepair her one way or another.
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@Royval said:
The perk is a shell of its old self 100% but I feel like it’s pointless to ever run it anymore.
Comp players run Corrupt pretty much 100% of the time for a reason.
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@Yharwick said:
I was looking at the stats we got last month again and something that stuck out to me is not only Singularity the 2nd least played killer next to Twins but they also feature one of the lowest kill rates at 56%. Note that with the exception of ghost face and nurse all other killers that low got buffs (Huntress, Doctor, Billy).
Being that Singularity is the only killer that struggles with both kill rate and popularity do you think it's inevitable they get a rework? I do think at the very least they need an add on pass due to Soma Family Photo almost feeling mandatory and the majority of their add-ons being useless. Hologram Projector for example is one of the most baffling add-ons in the game. You give a survivor oblivious after you teleport next to them...wow I wonder if they'll see you coming.
What do you think Singularity needs in order to be more in line with other killers?
An entire rework isn't needed. It's pretty simple, the counterplay against him is just too easy. EMPs are too strong. We said that during his PTB, and they still didn't really do anything to address it. Yeah they made them slightly weaker in chase, but the reality is they are just too good.
All they really need to do is simple, you make a decision.
- Do we want the EMPs to be readily available? If so, they need to be weak
- Do we want the EMPs to be less available? If so, they can be strong.
If we go with the, EMPs are readily available, then they simply just need to make them weaker. Easiest thing here is, simply make it so you aren't just slowed when you use an EMP but that you are completely stopped. You can't move while using an EMP. Then they can keep them available all the time.
If we want them to be strong but rarer, the change is also simple. Make it so the box only prints 75% of the way, and the survivors have to manually print the last 25%. Then make it so the box won't start printing an EMP if there are already 4 in the map, to prevent survivors hoarding them. Then REMOVE the penalty for using them. This makes them much harder to get, and forces survivors to actually spend time getting EMPs and they will far less available.
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@fussy said:
I remember that when SBMM was first introduced, matches were about fair. But this created other problems:
- A very long search for matches. If i remember correctly, it was about 10 minutes to find a good equal match. Personally, i don't mind long search, because it's better to play 1 equal and interesting match in 20 minutes, than 2 awful onesided matches. Like, i will better sit in the lobby than play match with baby Kate, who gave up at 5 gens, or stomp newbies at 5 gens without any joy.
- Killer role was literally, without any exaggeration, unplayable. I remember that I lost exactly more than half of the matches (or somewhere around 80%), and each of them was unbearable and very stressful.
After a short time, taking into account opinion of community, SBMM became what we have now: spread in the selection of opposite side/teammates is so large that it practically makes not so much difference from what if selection was random. As for me, matches are much better after the last time when softcap was raised. But I still get unequal allies/opponents from time to time.
I have no doubt that current balance is based only on unequal matches. If SBMM had continued to exist in its initial state, and players had played against equal opponents and with equal teammates, kill rate would have been somewhere around 40%, and even lower on highest mmr, what would lead to unavoidable big killers buff.
So, basicly, survivors don't want to lobby simulator and killers don't want to play only against sweat lords. But this goes against the fact that this is exactly how good matchmaking should work in realities of this game.
My question is: should we blame BHVR for poor matchmaking, if we ourselves have pointed out what it should be like, as a community. Or am I missing something?
Warning: big wall of text ahead, TLDR: the problem is the MMR system, but it is a tough problem to solve.
The problem is MMR and how its figured. How matches are figured out, and not the idea of MMR itself.
Basically, MMR is determined only based on kills and escapes. MMR (which is basically elo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) works as follows:
You have 2 players with some rating before the match. You take that rating and run it through a mathematical formula to determine the probability of one side winning or losing. Then you play the match. Based on that probability, the player who loses, loses points, and the player who wins gains those points. You can find an elo calculator here: https://wismuth.com/elo/calculator.html
Basically just punch in a number for each player, and it outputs a probability for "player 1" expected score. When you use the chess version of it (the default) that is the probability they will win. So if you have 2 players who are rated 2000, the probability is 34% that either player will win and a 30% of a draw (meaning you have a 64% to not lose). If one player is 1500 and another is 2000, the probability of the 1500 rated player winning is 2%. That is how much of a difference the rating makes. Now, this is elo for sure, but MMR is just elo with some flavor added to the formula's in calculating stuff. USUALLY most games "secret sauce" is how they calculate k-factor. Which you can read about in the elo wiki page i linked above.
Because DBD is figured as 4 1v1's in a match instead of a 1v4 it means this:
A win for the survivor is an escape through the gates
A draw for a survivor is an escape through the hatch
A loss for a survivor is a dead
A win for the killer is a kill
A draw for the killer is a hatch escape
A loss for the killer is an escape through the gates.
Keep in mind that a lot of the following is speculation on my part based on things the devs have said in videos, streams and other places about the mmr system and not fully proven unless otherwise stated:
Now, enter DBD and the problem with it. There are 3 problems with it. The 1st problem is the most obvious, and that is how they match players. In theory, most games try to match you with players within 50-100 points of you (depending on player counts) this is because of that disparity you saw above. the difference between 500 points means a 98% chance of winning vs losing. 100 points is still big, but much smaller at around 23% chance the lower rated player wins and a 25% chance of a draw, 50 points is better because it brings it to around 29% chance the lower rated player will win with a 28% chance of draw. Still a tough match, but starting to get closer to "fair". Now of course this is balanced out by the lower rated player winning more points if they win, than the high rated player if they win. So in theory, if both players played an infinite number of games, their ratings should stay the same.
But, back to DBD. How does DBD match players? They do it with tiers and an mmr ceiling. So instead of matching players based on their rating, the player's ratings put them into tiers, and players are matched within their tiers. Not much is known about DBDs tiers, but the "MMR ceiling" is known relatively (but has changed before). So, keep in mind these numbers ARE NOT REAL here and are just an example.
0-500 mmr = tier 1
501-1000 mmr = tier 2
1001-1200 mmr = tier 3
1201-1400 mmr = tier 4
And so on. So this means that, if you are in tier 4, and are just barely there, at 1201, you could be matched with someone as good as 1399. Which if you saw in the probability calculations above, leads you to being very unlikely to win your game. The MMR system does TRY to keep you still within a small range of players, but their goal is to get you into a lobby in around 60 seconds. So if it starts taking more than 15-20 seconds, its going to stop doing that and just spread out across the whole tier to start getting you into a match quickly.
This is also exacerbated by the MMR ceiling, which is, the "highest" tier of players has a cap, and if your MMR is ABOVE that cap, you are just put in the highest tier. That cap, last people discovered, was known to be around 1700. This means that if your MMR is 1700, you are in the highest tier, and if your MMR is 2500 you are in the highest tier. So, you can be matched among players in those tiers.
So what exactly does the lead to. There are very few players at "high mmr" which i would see as being above 2k. If you go back to the chess world and look at the rating distribution you'll see: https://www.uschess.org/archive/ratings/ratedist.php (keep in mind the data on that site is from 2004, but chess ratings haven't really changed much since then and for our purposes rough percentages are good enough). You'll see that the 2000-2099 bracket contains 1516 players out of 65k. This is around 2% of the players.
Now you see why matchmaking has problems. Think about how many players there are in DBD. This site says they have 500,000 - 700,000 players roughly every day: https://activeplayer.io/dead-by-daylight/ There's no telling if that is accurate or not. But lets say that DBD has 500k people playing at any given time total to make the match easier, that means that if you are a 2k rated player, there are around 10k players in your rating. Now factor in that these are players all around the world, regions, playtimes, ping etc. and all kinds of stuff. And its likely that every time you match, there are probably only a few hundred players who you are capable of being matched with for a fair match, or potentially even less if you play in less active regions.
This means that if you were 2k rated, and they tried to get you in a "fair" match. You are probably waiting a solid 5-10 minutes, if not longer, depending on timezones/regions etc., just to get into a match. For online games, especially ones with short matches like DBD, this is unacceptable. You can wait 5 minutes for a match in DotA because matches are an hour long, so the wait time to match ratio is pretty short. But a DBD match can be over in 5-10 minutes. Waiting 10 minutes, just to play a match that ends in 5 is not good for the health of the game.
This means that, matchmaking likely spreads pretty quickly, and starts matching you with whoever in that tier. This means that people who are just barely in the highest tier, are now put into a pull of players way above them. Look back at that rating distribution chart. There are 4.5% of players that are in the 1700-1799 range. Now remember, a 100 point difference means that you have a 23% chance of the lower rated player winning. Now add up all of the players above that range. There are 8110 players in the 1800+ range, that is 12.3% of the players. In DBD terms, this means that if matchmaking starts taking longer than 20-30 seconds, you now 3x more likely to be matched with/against players that are more than 100 points of rating above you, meaning that your chance of winning goes from being 45-55% to being far below 23%. If you look at that distribution, the average elo of the person you'll be matched with at that point will be around the 2000-2100 range. Which punching that into the elo calculator means your chance of winning your match is now only 8%.
This is why the matchmaking "feels horrible" because if you aren't among the top of the top, but are still in the top 5% or so, you are more likely to get matched with people in the top 0.5-1% than you are with people who are near your rating. And if you are among the top of the top, it is even worse for you, because there are so few players in your range, you are likely to play people FAR FAR below you. This is why you see content creators like Otz, and Tru3ta1ent and Ayrun and hens and so on, win like 95% of their matches. Because of the sheer number of hours they have in the game, they are really really good, and their MMR is likely very high, probably in the 2500-2800+ range (chess grandmaster range). So statistically, that is about right based on the players they are getting matched with that they win basically all their games.
Now, i said that this is the 1st problem MMR in DBD. This is why matches feel so wild, depending on your time of day, the quality of your matches can vary widely.
The 2nd problem is how the results of the game are calculated. For survivors, the system does not see the match as a 1v4. It sees it as a 1v1. And for the killer, it does not see the match as a 1v1, it sees it as 4 separate 1v1's. To put it simply, lets say you have a match of players all around 100 rating points of each other:
Survivor 1: 1800 mmr
Survivor 2: 1850 mmr
Survivor 3: 1890 mmr
Survivor 4: 1825 mmr
Killer: 1875 mmr
Now Let's say that the match is a 2k/2e. And Survivor 1 and 3 escape, and survivor 2 and 4 are killed. Well this means that the killer lost 2 1v1's and won 2 1v1's. And 2 of the survivors lost their game, and 2 of them won their game. Then running these through the elo calculator it will work like this:
- Survivor 1 gains 12.1 points and the killer loses 12.1 points
- Survivor 2 loses 9.3 points and the killer gains 9.3 points
- Survivor 3 gains 9.6 points and the killer loses 9.6 points
- Survivor 4 loses 8.6 points and the killer gains 8.6 points.
All totaled up here are the new elos:
Survivor 1: 1812.1
Survivor 2: 1840.7
Survivor 3: 1899.6
Survivor 4: 1816.4
Killer: 1871.2
So the killer lost rating for this game despite it being a draw (this can happen in elo though and is normal) and the survivors gained and lost points appropriately.
But again, brining it back to DBD terms, this just looks at the kills and escapes. It doesn't care that this match was like this because the killer hooked Survivor 2, face camped them for 3 hook states, then had NOED and slapped survivor 4, and hooked them right next to the NOED. All it cares is that the match was a win or a loss.
Similarly for survivors, it doesn't care if one survivor hid in a locker in the basement all game and did nothing before going through the exit gates, all it does is count as a win because they went through the exit gates, and the teammate that finished 5 gens or ran the killer for 5 minutes sacrificed themselves at the last second to unhook them and let them get through the gates.
So this bears in mind, how do you fix these problems. It is tough for sure, but i would do a few things:
- Restructure the game itself to make matches last a bit longer. I'd shoot for around 20 minute matches.
- This means a ton of things, you need to make it hard for survivors to get out of a match early (tunneled),
- you need to slow the gens down (maybe you have to repair 6 gens now?)
- Or create some other kind of objective (gen parts).
- Because right now (for both sides) this game is a rush fast, just rush the gens, just rush through a single survivor's hook states as fast as possible.
- These longer games means it becomes more acceptable for people to wait maybe 3-5 minutes for a match and you can get closer and fairer matches.
- Restructure matchmaking rewards, so that survivors are a team and win or lose as a team. If 2 survivors get out, everyone gets a draw. If 1 survivor gets out, the survivors lose (but maybe they lose slightly less than if 0 got out) and so on.
This was long, but i wanted to close by saying a lot of this is speculation based on videos and things i have seen of the devs. And should not be taken as pure fact. It is likely that the system does not quite work this way, but based on what they have said about the system, this is how i SUSPECT that it works. If anyone points to anything that is wrong, or a dev comes and corrects me i will happily edit my post on things that are wrong.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682703#Comment_3682703
Nerfed? You mean fixed, of course those insane and stupid flicks were non intended.
Either way, it killed the fun of the character. I would rather they bring back the crazy flicks, and then fix the crawling under the pallet so you don't just go for free m1s.
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@adam1233467 said:
Hello everyone, I hope you're having a good day
I'm here to tell you that I'm very worried about the next tome, because it will be the tome on unkwnown and Sable, they are always making the tomes based on the dlcs, so when a dlc is released, the next tome will be of the characters that were released in the dlc, in many rare cases when there was the alien, there was no tome of them but they are licensed so it is more difficult to have them.
But I'm scared, because there's probably going to be a mission to use sable's invocation perk, and I really don't want that mission to exist, because my god, if the mission requires using the invocation, it's going to be impossible to play survivor during that period, seriously
I'd imagine it is going to get buffed by then to be more useful. I suspect they'll try upping the number back up to 15. Then if that still isn't quite working they might lower the time to do an invocation to say 90 seconds, and then potentially making the penalty of the broken stay until you are unhooked (so you basically get 1 hook state of being injured instead of the rest of the game)
After that it probably stays being relatively niche but still being coolish.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
See maybe one chucky per few days yet he is one of the most picked Killers, that doesn't make sence. With Weskers and Blights it is accurate since they are played the most and you see them daily pretty much.
They nerfed him so he can't curve anymore. So he just isn't fun and his skill cap was signficantly lowered, along with his power.
Now the "best" way to play him, is to just save his power, go under a pallet, and get your free m1. But that is boring.
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@TheTom20 said:
Several games the killer has like 1 or 2 hooks there is 1 gen left someone will go on first hook an instantly give up I don't understand it
Probably because they are trying to do a specific challenge, and they reached the point in the game where it is not possible. For example, maybe the challenge is like "finish 2 gens in 1 game" but they didn't get to finish any gens and now there is 1 left, so from their eyes, if they are trying to complete the challenge, it is faster for them to just die and go to the next game because finishing those 2 gens is far easier at the start of the match than it is at the end of the match.
This is just one example, but generally i find the week right after a tome level comes out that everyone is trying to complete the challenges so its just a total ######### show.
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@Ginnypig said:
Its not talked about it enough, it so stupid and im glad im a killer main, but when i do play survivor, it just feels so wrong and it aint lagg...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RLT3I7D04L9W/image.png
And on top of that, she got buffed.
This is a combination of ping, and the hitboxes being slightly larger (for both the survivor and the hatchet) than the model. I'd guess that on that huntress' screen, it was a clean hit, and a pretty tight shot. You have to think that what the huntress is seeing in terms of YOUR position is probably about 50-75 ms behind what you are seeing. So she actually saw you here on her screen:
Without seeing yours and the huntress player's ping its tough to say exactly, but anecdotally i notice my ping is usually around 30-50. Now keep in mind that is round trip. So when you move forward, you see it instantly, but take half your ping, and that's how long it takes for the server to see that you moved, now take half the huntress player's ping, and that's how long it takes after the server gets it, for the huntress to see that you moved forward.
In general this a problem that many FPS games have. And they have solved it simply by this:
"It is better to shoot someone on your screen and register it as a hit, even though on THEIR screen, they were around a corner, than it is to deny the hit"
This is because it feels worse to be clearly hitting someone on your screen and it not count, than it does to experience this. You can disagree with this point, and think it is the other way, but the general consensus among "most" players, is that it feels better to favor the shooter.
Where this creates a "problem" in DBD world, is that survivors don't get to shoot back, so it feels more one sided to them.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682564#Comment_3682564
Hard to take this sentiment seriously when:
You can chase them out or afk until egc ends
You can turn off end game chat
You can report bigotry and violence
Trash talk and taunting your opponent is a fun bonus to any PVP gamewhich is why most devs support it within reason.
Obviously overdoing it or being violent/bigoted is not okay but these are already against the rules and punished. So I don't see the problem aside from again, people getting embarrassed by losing.
I think these games would be quite boring if player interaction was neutered to forced positivity.
I was being hyperbolic to be fair. But in general the point is, i noticed that if i just go run to the basement or wherever and wait out the timer, i get a lot more "gg wp". Wheras, when i give in, hit them out, and they get emboldened by their ability to taunt and teabag, i get a lot more "ez baby killer".
It's just something i noticed, that if they get their "fun" at the gate, they end up being more toxic in the end.
Anecdotal for sure, its just what i personally have run into.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682505#Comment_3682505
Killers feeling required to run slow down perks is an illogical line of thought.
Imagine a Super Smash player that only plays the best character in the game (probably Steve), a character that most agree is downright broken and plays the game for you. Now imagine this dude makes it to top 8’s consistently with Steve, but can’t even get out the first round playing any other character. Now, the Steve player could interpret this one of two ways. He either thinks that he is required to play Steve or he can realize that he needs to actually improve at the game, it’s mechanics, interactions, etc.. The reality is that he’s not nearly as good at the game as the other players, he just gets carried by an S tier character.
Now, this is DbD, you’re not playing for rank (that you can visibly see), you’re not playing for money, etc. It’s okay to lose games, it’s okay to get stomped every once in a while. All you’re doing by running full stack regression perks is artificially enhancing your MMR and more than likely your perception of your own skill. Play to win if you want, but don’t say that you’re required to run slowdown perks when in reality you’ve overextended past your actual skill level and are getting players that are flat out just better. Take the slowdowns off, it’ll improve your gameplay and experience so much more in the long run. You’re not forced to run anything, you’ve just tricked yourself into thinking that you should win 75%+ of your games handedly.
I think you are missing the point.
There are many times in the past where BHVR noticed that people thought that certain addons were "required" to play certain killers. Because when you didn't play with that addon, it felt really bad. Some examples come to mind:
- Wraith windstorm (movement speed while cloaked) [back before you ran faster while stealthed]
- Pig combat straps (less crouch time)
- Hillbilly overheat addons to cool faster (before they did the recent rework)
- Demogorgon movement speed while charging your power
These are just a few. But in each of these cases, what BHVR did, was buff the basekit, and then nerf the addon. Such that, when you take the addon it was the same as it was before, but if you don't take the addon, it doesn't feel as bad as not taking it.
I'm saying that it currently feels bad when you have 0 slowdown perks because the basekit regression is so bad. So, if people want to stop seeing 4 slowdown perks stacked on top of each other, buff the basekit, and nerf the perks.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682423#Comment_3682423
Some people find it embarrassing to lose instead of treating it like a normal part of any competition.
That's why bad sportsmanship affects them.so deeply and for so long.
Some people don't want to watch the survivors be toxic and teabag at the gates while you can do nothing about it just to call you racial slurs in the endgame chat.
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@beyd said:
By now, I'm getting these weird survivors in almost every third game as a killer. Mostly in the early morning (German time). I really don't understand how modding/cheats (especially to this extent) can even be a thing. EAC should be able to detect precisely THESE things. Like: altered game files, any injections, etc., etc.
I don't even want to get into the discussion of whether "killer or survivor" is stronger... but rounds like these make the desire to sit in the waiting list for minutes and often just get rushed away even smaller. I used to really enjoy playing as the killer, but it's been getting worse and worse (especially in the last 2 years). Unfortunately.
What do you think of this and what are your experiences? I play on EU and on Steam (with Crossplay).
Here are two clips of my daily companions who feel no more sense in life.
New Jump Feature.. Dwight is showing me :) https://youtu.be/0bgtRoi1Ikg
Bro cmon. this small % more speed is obv. Duude.. https://youtu.be/xtFW2pVus-E
in love, beyd.
see u in the fog guys!
I have no idea what it is, maybe how you move, but i got motion sick watching these. The first one is hard to tell because of that weird movement you are doing, but it looked normal. The jump thing happens at various parts of different maps being a big buggy at times so you can "climb" and "slide" on things sometimes.
The second one just looks like resilience. You had so many opportunities to just m1 her but you didn't and then let her get to a window for some reason.
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@CrypticGirl said:
I don't understand why so many Killers think that when the first two or three gens pop, the world is over. They have so much comeback and snowball potential as the game continues, it's insane. On the other hand, if Survivors lollygag or aren't efficient on the gens from the start, they lose. There is very little room for mistakes, and zero comeback potential for them after a bad start. That's why tunneling is so effective, and that's why Survivors give up on hook. I would say it's "unfair," but the Killer is supposed to be the power role, so maybe it is fair, idk...
Because once you are in that state. The survivors can just predrop every pallet and you can't ever catch them and they just slam the last couple of gens.
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@Lunairtic said:
Hello, I have been using head on for years now and lately when I use it, it won't stun the killer. It does the normal exiting locker fast animation of exiting a locker and not the head on animation. This is of course with no exhaustion. Why is this happening? It should be doing the head on animation and stunning the killer.
You have to be in the locker for a few seconds could be what you are potentially missing. But without a video we can't say exactly what is going on.
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@menacing_goose said:
Please change the killer meta. Pop and pain res are in just about literally every killer build and it’s so boring atp. I don’t see these perks as a problem on their own but they get paired together and just over reward killers. I don’t wanna play survivor anymore because almost every match everything done is just about for nothing because of this and survivor is so boring as a whole it’s to the point where I don’t want to play survivor unless it’s in a customs with friends
@Starrseed said:
maybe its time to give perks something like a point system. every perk has points asigned and now you cant make to strong combos cause your points are not enough.
that could also be used as a means of balance since the point distribution could be changed rather then the perks.
as an exampel you have four categories 1point to 4 point. you can use one perk of every category to get to ten points or you can use two 4 point perks and one 2 point or two 1 point perks.
A point system would be a nerf though.
The problem is that killers feel that stacking gen slowdown is required. Why is that? Try running a game as killer where you play with no slowdown at all and you'll see that the gens simply go too fast.
Now, what is the solution to this problem? They should do what they do with killer addons that feel "required" Nerf the addon, buff the basekit.
I think they should do just that, nerf the perks, and then buff the basekit. Make the basekit gen kick 10% instead of 5%. Make the basekit regression be 0.5 charges/s instead of 0.25 charges/s. Give a basekit corrupt that lasts like 30 seconds, and also blocks hex totems.
Then go and nerf or rework all the gen perks.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8JS1XAB8GJLK/4j-z7knswa4.jpg
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Rare Little Witch Academia poster.
Nice
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Eruption and Overcharge also count as 2 regression events. 4 kicks and the Gen is blocked. Since we are limited to 8 kicks a lot of those perks need to be buffed or changed.
You are correct on eruption, but overcharge does not, it counts just like missing a regular skillcheck does.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Flashbangs will blind you even if you are not looking at them and you are looking into a wall.
- Background Player allows for insane saves, very hard to counter it if the team is ready for your pick up.
- Flashlight saves have save window timer that wasn't there in long past allowing for even being bit off in your timing, being less about skill but yet remain still powerfull.
- SWF groups can make it a real nightmare to pick up someone.
- Flashlights are fine
- They do need to fix the collision bug right now where survivors can walk through you while picking up a survivor, pretty dumb because you can block pallet saves, but they can still just walk through you. That's the problem with flash bangs right now, because even if you look at a wall the survivor can drop a flash inside of you and it still hits you.
- Background player is a bit cracked right now but mostly because its not really possible to counter without bringing perks to counter exhaustion directly. Has the same problem as many other perks where if you don't know its there its OP, but if you do, its weak. And, like 80% of the perks in the game, it sucks most of the time, but in the hands of SWFs that can abuse it with coms, its pretty broken.
Mainly though, survivors trying to flashlight save are not spending time on gens, and with some general awareness, its easy to see if someone is setting up for a save.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680248#Comment_3680248
Yes and so can massive deadzones can as well. Deadzones are far more common than these types of tiles today. So is shack spawning a mile away from anything else so you just die after 3 vaults at best.
What should survivors do vs anti-loop killers at literally any other area of sanctum of wrath? Hold W to your preferred corner and die? Very engaging.
Strawmanning. 2 things can be true at the same time. Setups like this should not exist and deadzones should not exist.
Please stop strawmanning and tell me where i am wrong with the statement:
Setups like this should not exist.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679412#Comment_3679412
Lmao ah yes the single strong area on sanctum of wrath for survivors. No wonder this map has the...4th highest kill rate of any map. Truly a map that needs more survivor nerfs.
Strawmanning. A setup like that should not exist and the map might need some changes. Such setups can spawn on any map though. 2 things can be true at the same time.
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@Blueberry said:
Which killers and addons do y’all feel are generally speaking “required” for them to play how you think they should at base kit and should have those built in? And why.
I’ll start.
Dredge. Haddies Calendar and Boat Key
Dredge even with both these addons cannot teleport fast enough for mid chase teleport plays against good survivors, much less the embarrassingly slow speed without them. Even though there are also other good addons Dredge has these are what make them fun to me. Without mindgame teleports mid chase they're boring. So while they have many other interesting addons I feel I can never actually get the chance to run them since these are perpetually auto locked for me.
- Myers: Tomestone makes him A-S tier, without it he's one of the worst
- Hag: Range addons (the new basekit changes might make it better but haven't played her yet
- Doctor: Range addons (same as hag)
- Bubba: Chil + Beast marks basically required
- Freddy: Iri that starts everyone asleep required
- Pig: Charge speed required
- Legion: Duration+Movementspeed required
- Plague: Iri required (because survivors never cleanse)
- Deathslinger: Reload Required
- Twins: Toy sword requried
- Pinhead: Extra chains spawning when they break them with the environment required
- Wesker: Egg required
- Knight: Map required
- Chucky: Vaulting thing required
Those are all the ones where, yeah it isn't necessarily REQUIRED. But it feels really bad to not use these addons.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I'll preface by saying I don't have an issue with NOED, I don't think NOED is overpowered and I think there are far more important balancing issues in the game than NOED.
For the fun factor though I was thinking what would happen if survivors knew the Killer had NOED at the beginning of the game (eg first time a survivor lost a health state)? NOED was very frustrating for survivors because it felt like getting punished for doing gens. However, if the survivors knew the Killer had NOED at the beginning of the game they could choose to either cleanse totems (which would give the Killer passive slowdown) or they could slam gens and deal with NOED after.
It would now be a tactical choice; do we take time cleansing totems or do we just slam gens and try to cleanse NOED later? The survivors would know it's a possibility from the start so it wouldn't feel like it's a waste of time to cleanse totems and, if they don't, do bones becomes a legitimate reply to losing to NOED instead of a troll response.
The devs could also then consider getting rid of the totem wall hacking itself to the survivors. Maps and the almost never played anti totem perks could get more usage.
Would matches get a more interesting dynamic with this to freshen things up? What do you think?
My question is. Why?
There are tons of perks in the game that exist and are really strong until people know about them. The same could be said about coup, or dead man's or perks that give the killer undetectable to go for gen grabs.
Why not just show the killer's whole loadout.