Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703684#Comment_3703684
You are not giving Clown enough credit. He can turn some tiles that good players are comfortable looping complete unsafe or even free downs. The age of just pre throwing pallets is long gone, since some many safe tiles cannot just be abandoned. There is a clown main out there that wins the majority of his matches while nearly never breaking a single pallet, even at jungle gyms.
The only reason clowns lose is because he is not as fast at downing people like Nurse or Blight, but in a clown chase he is basically one of the best 1v1 characters in the game. Its just he is in a 1v4 game.
I think you are missing the point. The point was that, clown already does that, so the addons don't help him do that better and aren't really that good. His best addon is the aura reading one, coupled with probably duration, or maybe the slow increase.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703610#Comment_3703610
What a fantasy world. A lot of gens you would not get to pop if it were not for Pain Res. In a lot of cases Pain Res allows the Pop to happen in the first place. Yes, those two perks are textbook anti-synergy.
See, you are pointing out the truth of the matter, but in the way you think. Yeah, pain res allows the pop. Isn't it a bit nuts that a perk that knocks of 25% of a gen has only 4 uses, requires you to go to a specific hook that is dictated by RNG, and requires you to go after multiple different survivors, still often means you often can't physically get to the gen in time to defend it, even if you know exactly which gen it was hit by?
People really underestimate how much time it takes a killer to do anything. Just downing a survivor and hook them takes so much time.
2.7 wipe animation
3 second pickup animation
~8 seconds to walk to a hook
1.5 second hook animation.
Thats 15.2 seconds just to hook the guy. That doesn't even factor in a chase.
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@BritneyMitch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703610#Comment_3703610
and even with that anti-synergy it is the strongest combo in the game. Which is pretty impressive to be honest.
Even if the gen was at near 100% complete, lets say 99%. Pain res knocks off 25% then kick knocks off 5% then pop does 30% of current. Which means the gen goes from 99% complete to 48%. So it knocks off around half. But thats 2 regression events, meaning you have 6 left on that gen, and on top of that pain res is limited, and pop requires hooks.
It is still one of the healthier metas we have had because it requires you to hook multiple different survivors to get use out of pain res and grim embrace.
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@BritneyMitch said:
Pop/pain res alone are not problematic, together they are disgustingly strong. I do not think anyone in their right mind could make a coherent argument against this fact. I would like to see changes to them. I have a suggestion that would help the game, but it is far too much work to actually see light. I think gen rush and gen regression builds are both too strong. I would like a world where things like bnp, streetwise, built to last, etc did not exist, but in turn gen regression was heavily nerfed. This obviously can't happen due to the work it would require, but having to do 8 gens per game is just awful and boring. If you do well in chase, the killer just chases one of your solo que teammates and then they get their pops/pain res procs. Since it is a team game, you can't just "get better." This is a massive factor contributing to the swf experience being 100X more fun than the solo que experience.
Pop and pain res are inherently anti-synergistic. You pain res a gen, it gets knocked off 25% of total progress. Then pop it after for 30% of CURRENT progress. Because pain res happened, pop gives less value.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703188#Comment_3703188
Unless I’m misreading it, it’s only tied to the locker you open. It’s not 32 metres from every locker, it’s 32 metres from the locker you open. Which isn’t a very useful effect especially on a 60 second cool down.
Ah, you are right there. I misread "the locker" as "a locker"
So the perk is dead then. Which doesn't change much. I still stand by that the CURRENT version of UW is actually a bad perk.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703129#Comment_3703129
How so?
It’s still got the increased cool down which makes it kind of meh in my opinion.
It'll have the same cooldown it has now even at 60 seconds. People keep thinking that current UW has a 30 second cooldown, but it does not, it has a 60 second cooldown in practice.
Basically, the way the current version works is, you open the locker and then for 30 seconds it activates, making survivors scream. But then AFTER that 30 seconds, it starts its 30 second cooldown. This means that you get to use it once per minute, effectively having a 60 second cooldown.
The new one, is tied to lockers, meaning that, when you open a locker, it is extremely unlikely that all 4 survivors don't just immediately scream. 32 meters is a terror radius, that is a massive distance. Its probably not possible to be more than 32 meters from a locker save for a handful of maps that just have terrible locker placement (RIP dredge). So what that will mean is. You open a locker, all the survivors are pretty much gonna scream, and then 60 seconds later you can do it again.
What this results in, is that the perk is still usable about once a minute, and you get to know where everyone is, it still gives blindness, and now its not tied to YOUR terror radius, so its actually better now on killers like huntress and stealth killers, while technically being slightly worse for wesker (although i'd still argue better because you can see screams from across the map), but its a situational thing, a nerf one way a buff another. Depends on how you use it.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703117#Comment_3703117
Oh whoops I misread that. Thanks for the correction!
That does seem better than being terror radius based since as you said stealth killers can use it now. (And the perk isn’t completely unusable on Freddy anymore).
Still not a good perk though and I don’t think anyone is going to run it anymore outside of Adept Xeno.
Ironically they buffed it actually.
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@adam1233467 said:
yeah, blight is officialy not a tier S killer anymore
Im glad they take away this twins
Ds meta again
Ultimate weapon super nerfed
Yeah, super great when they take away skill expression that really only effects the high level and overall dumbs the game down. I guess people like going against nurse every game?
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702065#Comment_3702065
Actually its far better mechanically to leave the player on hook then to rescue them. Because of the combined timer you now have 6 mins to rescue from first hook. So you don't really need to rescue the person till a second survivor goes down and gets hooked.
That cumulative time is better used to focus on gens than pausing to rescue, so it does create a scenario where the first player hooked hangs on hook for longer due to reduced urgency in unhooking. Good teams will figure this out and the better play will be to leave the first player hanging there while they smash out gens because of the reduced urgency to make an immediate save.
Essentially early game slow down due to getting someone hooked is largely nullified by the lack of urgency to rescue that first hooked survivor. The urgency only comes after multiple players have been hooked and by then gens should be mostly complete. So it's incredibly unbalanced and likely to leave players with a game experience of hanging on hook for up to 6mins. Its really not a good idea.
The second as pointed out offers way to much for a hook save, it guaranteed to be safe, it provides complete game immunity and a free health state. It also removes the pressure of being hooked because you teleport over to the furthest survivor, which means they don't even really need to leave their gen to get the save.
So again we undermine the pressure gained from hooks, we make the player immune to gameplay and then offer them a free health state. Its beyond OP nuts, add in the convoluted teleport mechanic and you've got this mess of a bonus that really throws the game out of whack.
You HAVE urgency. Because the timer still stays the same for burning through hook states. If a team leaves someone on the hook and doesn't get them and instead does gens. Now you have
1 person on hook
1 person being chased
2 on gens
Now you down that person you are chasing, and they probably burned through 2-3 hook states. You hook the guy you were chasing, you just burned 4 hook states. You can't just leave someone there.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's why guardrails and separators like SBMM and a ranked queue need to be utilized. You'll never eliminate the trolls or power fantasy players, short of managing them out of the community, but you can at least have mechanisms in place to mitigate it.
Its precisely why MMR is killing this game, and multiplayer gaming in general. MMR and ranking only LEADS to the inevitable outcome that everyone starts tryharding instead of playing for fun.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700451#Comment_3700451
1st Idea
Problem is that without any urgency to rescue, what is the motivation to save someone from a 6 min hook?
Its far better to play stealthy and leave the 1st player on hook while focusing on gens than to stop gens and attempt rescue. Basically while BHVR are trying to minimize the likelihood of spending all game hanging on hook this option creates a scenario where its best if one player does just that. First person hooked is all but guaranteed to spend ~6 mins on hook. So not a great solution.
2nd idea,
Is way to convoluted to work well. Also it basically turns every hook into a safe unhook with a free health state. Which is way to much of a benefit for being unhooked.
Two things you can never do to survivor gameplay is; remove urgency from the tasks or make survivors completely immune to threat from the killer. Those two elements are the core of survivor play, they are the reason you are trying to escape. Remember survivor is the role of a desperate victim trying to escape and DBD needs to emulate that.
Idea 1 removes urgency, while Idea 2 both removes urgency and induces immunity. So neither are good ideas I'm afraid.
There's plenty of urgency, because there is a survivor not doing gens slowing you down. Also, they still burn through the team's health states if they don't get them, getting the team closer to losing.
The second one, the point is that you give them a "timeout" so the killer gets more time by hooking them then they do by slugging them, or trying to tunnel someone.
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@sinkra said:
I'm wondering if the average kill rate is 60%, doesn't that mean that a 2k is technically a loss for the killer and makes their mmr decrease? Since a killer's mmr is based on their performance relative to other killers, not survivors. Oherwise the mmr system wouldn't work, because every killer's mmr would be increasing constantly if a 2k means their mmr stays the same.
Last we found out, the way the game determines it is that it is not a 1v4, it is 4 1v1s. So if you kill 2 survivors who are lower rated than you, but 2 survivors who are lower rated than you escape, in theory you should lose MMR rating, although only a little, because you "won" 2 of the 1v1s and "lost" 2 of the 1v1s. But they were against lower rated players, so you lose more mmr when you lose but gain less than when you win.
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@[Deleted User] said:
As Reinami mentioned, it becomes difficult to maintain server sided checks with every update. Additionally, every check you add is going to come at the expense of server resources. AWS isn't cheap, and they would likely have to scale up memory and CPU allocated to their VMs if they were to add more server sided checks.
Yeah server resources are also part of it for sure.
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@TheArbiter said:
I see that a popular discussion at the moment is blinding the killer and the perks and items that are associated with it. That being said as background player is becoming more and more popular are people okay with this being a thing, or is this the next buckle up and for the people. Curious what the community currently thinks
It has nothing to do with background player or flashbangs, it is a bug that has been around since unknown released that allows survivors to walk through killers when they pick up a survivor. It creates a ton of other problems, for example if someone was at a pallet, you could pick them up on one side of the pallet to body block a potential save, forcing someone who is saving to go around the other side. But now they can just walk through you and drop the pallet anyway.
I reported it here:
@Reinami said:
- Platform: PC
- Description:
It used to be prior to the release of the unknown, that if a killer picked up a survivor, they still had collision with other survivors. This is creating several problems.
The killer can no longer pick up the survivor along one side of a pallet to try and block a pallet save, because the other survivor can just drop the pallet while inside the killer.
The bigger problem is with flashbangs. Even if the killer faces a wall, another survivor can drop a flashbang inside the killer, blinding them and dropping the survivor. Making flashbang completely uncounterable in this scenario.
- Steps to repro
- Down a survivor as the killer
- Pick up the survivor.
- Have another survivor run inside of the killer
- Observe that the survivor can walk through the killer
- How often does this occur
- 100% of the time.
I'd suggest upvoting/posting in the thread to get more traction on it.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
I saw this comment on one of Ayrun's Youtube videos. Sounds reasonable, but I'm wondering if any techies in the forums have some knowledge about this. Would this work? If not, why?
@dtaPacman
6 days ago (edited)It's a sad reflection for an online game to not have any server side anticheat. The game monitors all variables every second otherwise stuff like dead hard, ruin & exhausted timers wouldn't work. Started to view it as a competence issue on the Devs part...
Server: what 4 perks you bringing?
Cheater: nah fam, I'm bringing 6.
Server: cool. What is your location?
Cheater: I'm at shack, actually I'm really at main dropping from the ceiling.
Server: awesome.
Cheater: I'm allowed to see the auras of everyone permanently, show them to me.
Server: no worries.Video source:
Yes, and also no. It really is an arms race, there are some things they could do, but at that point its a matter of what parameters you allow.
For example, lets just look at one possibility, of a cheating survivor player's movement speed.
Scenario 1:
Survivor: Hey server, i can move at 200% movement speed permanently
Sever: Cool
Now they do a patch that makes it so the server will know that you can only move at 200% movement speed if you run background player and only for 5 seconds.
Scenario 2:
Survivor: Hey server, i can move at 103% movement speed permanently
Server: Cool
Now they do a patch to fix this. But 103% movement speed is possible with MFT with a condition.
So it creates this scenario where your detection is:
if survivor movement speed > 100% for some amount of seconds, but also when they don't have MFT and endurance, but also if they don't have this other perk: then ban survivor for hacking else they are good to go.
Now everytime they do an update to perks they have to go in and sift through that complicated logic to make sure they don't accidentally start banning people. Maybe create an new KILLER perk that makes survivors move faster as a penalty, but gives the killer some buff. Or maybe they create a new killer power that makes survivors move faster but gives some kind of debuff. So now the logic becomes super complicated.
The better solution is multiple things:
- Better anti-cheat and banwaves. You always ban in waves, not immediately. Pirate software has a few clips where he explains this well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YUmMFwSXpU
- A replay system, this would tie in with player reports, where when someone reports someone for cheating, a replay is created and can be played back by someone to view the match and determine if someone was cheating.
- If this system becomes too hard to manage for the devs because of too many reports, they can replace it with a system by which players can vote "tribunal" style, similar to overwatch in DotA where you can view replays, and vote whether someone should get banned.
- You could even go so far as tie this into AI and machine learning to take the match data and determine if the person cheated.
- And finally compensation. If someone in a previous game was banned for cheating, you let the person know, and compensate them. Ranks don't really matter anymore in DBD but in say chess for example, they give you back your rating. In DBD, tossing you 100k bloodpoints would be enough for most people.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701329#Comment_3701329
yeah but, the thing with CS is that you had unlimited amount of pub servers with various modes (knife only, zombies, deathmatch, classic, surf, deathrun), while in dbd you have just regional servers with possibility of custom matches, but you truly have to manually find people for those.
And CS 1.6 with all those servers was literally what we can call a party game that didn't need SBMM at all
CS is one example, CoD you "queued up" and you just got put in lobbies with whoever you got put with.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
Esports were a mistake in the first place.
Its not esports that is the problem. Esports was around a long time. It is skill based matchmaking that is the problem. And not just with DBD, its an industry problem.
Back in my day, there was no skill based matchmaking. You just joined a random CS server or Quake Clan Wars server or random WC3 DotA game, and your teammates and opponents were whoever they happened to be. You queued up for a match of CoD and you just got matched with whoever you got matched with. If you got destroyed by some really good player, you didn't complain, whine or cry about it, you thought "damn that guy is really good". If you were playing CoD and a guy was destroying everyone in the lobby dropping nukes every game, you generally WANTED to be in that lobby to watch what the guy was doing so you could learn their tricks, or you'd pay attention to the weapons he was using or what perks etc.
If you were that guy, people would compliment you on your skills and sing your praises for being really good. And if you got tired of losing to the guy? You just left the lobby and found another match. Maybe in that new lobby it would be you destroying everyone. Maybe you would take some of the things you learned from the previous lobby and put it to the test in this new one. Maybe you'd start unlocking all the attachments and perks that guy was using in that lobby so you could give it a try. Yeah, you'd probably lose a bunch of games because you never used the UMP before and you don't have attachments. No big deal, you'd grind out a few games and get them so you can start using it.
All of that changed when skill based matchmaking came out. Back then it was called "Trueskill". People started really caring about that number next to their name when it was called trueskill. Before that, the number was just a number that you could grind out if you spent enough time on the game, because the number was usually just XP or some other mechanic. If you were good, it went up faster, but even if you weren't, it still went up every game. But now, people started getting upset when other players in the lobbies were really good and destroying them, because it meant that the number next to their name would go down instead of up. Now suddenly people wanted "fairness" to trump everything in terms of matches. Because if the match wasn't perceived as "fair" then they would start blaming the game for that number next to their name going down. And if they started blaming the game, they'd stop playing, and they'd stop buying. So now the developers honed on on "fairness" against all other qualities.
Once fairness reigned supreme, it meant that when some cool "thing" or "tech" (as we call them in dbd) was discovered, it had to be patched.
Gone were the days of playing MvC2, and having an Iron man do an infinite combo on you and thinking "damn how did you do that?! That was amazing!" Why? well because an infinite combo would be unfair, so we can't have those, gotta patch them out.
Gone were the days of being able to stack killstreaks together in CoD because people found out they can camp good spots, keep safe, and work themselves up to a chopper, and then be able to get a nuke if they focused on getting kills and not dying instead of going for the objectives. Why? well because someone getting 25 kills in a row was seen as "unfair".
Gone were the days of someone figuring out that the Model 1887 in CoD actually had some decent range, and if you dual wield them, it made it so the weakness of it being a single pump action shotgun was mitigated, meaning you could one tap someone if you had good aim. Can't do that because being one tapped would be "unfair" Now the TTK is significantly longer in these games and you have to spend half a clip to kill someone.
Gone were the days of playing Quake, and bunny hopping around a map and using rocket jumps to fly around and timing when the armor and health would spawn so you can show up at the exact right time and gain control of the map. That would be unfair, because bunny hopping was hard, and timing weapons was hard, so we had to add timers for you, and give you auto-bhop.
Gone were the days of playing Halo, and starting with the Pistol, the best OVERALL weapon in the game, that allowed you to take on anyone assuming you could outaim them. Despite the fact that, the shotgun was better at close range, the rockets were better at mid range, and the sniper was better at long range. The pistol could do it all, decently, but in the hands of a skilled player was a deadly weapon. But spawning with a weapon so strong is "unfair" after all.
Gone were the days of playing Halo 2, and having a ton of glitches and "techs" like BXR and BXBB and quad shot. Because those are hard techniques to pull off and not everyone can do it. Making it really "unfair" to those who couldn't.
And lastly. Gone were the days of Super Smash Bros Melee, where you had crazy techniques like wavedashing, and L cancelling that allowed combos to exist, turning this "party game" into a serious and viable competitive sport that was really interesting to watch. Instead we make it so you can just randomly "trip" in the next game for no reason, and remove all of those things so that we can emphasize the "party" game, because after all, wavedashing and L Cancelling are hard, and not everyone can do it, making it really "unfair" for them.
I could continue to go on, but i feel you should get the point at this point. The pursuit of "fairness" and skill based matchmaking has created a situation where games are stale now, everything is the same, and everything is a constant struggle-fest where everyone is doing everything they can to win. Instead of just joining a CoD lobby to have a little fun and mess around with a shotgun, or mess around with care package and maybe get a lucky chopper after only a couple of kills. At the end of the day, you didn't care if you "won" the match, because you still got XP, you still leveled up, you still earned attachments, you still earned perks, you still earned prestige and you still earned achievements. just a little slower than if you had won the match.
This pursuit of "fairness" didn't exist when your "rank" was just tied to how long you played the game for (I.E. CoD prestige) because you were just grinding a higher number and if you were really good, you got it faster, but eventually everyone would get it. Once that number started getting called "Trueskill" people took it as an insult when that number was low, and they started caring. Thus fairness became the supreme god that every developer would continue to push for, without realizing that they were slowly killing their games.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700859#Comment_3700859
No, I didn't. I've been around since near the games release. There were many, many better perks.
Agree to disagree i guess.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700855#Comment_3700855
"Back then there were far less useful perks."
I disagree completely. I was there.
I'm guessing you joined later when more perks were introduced. But you have to remember that the "good" perks like Pop, didn't exist, ruin didn't exist. Yeah the old STBFL existed along with unrelenting, but that didn't last very long at all before they were reworked.
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700456#Comment_3700456
That is a blatant lie.
They are being reworked Cough Buffed Cough because their pickrate is too low and they haven't surpassed the minimum 60% kill rate(Easy mode).
The only thing that will change is that their kill rate will increase.
It is not FOR the survivors, It is FOR the killer mains.
Literally the first thing they said as the reason for the changes was to address the slugging playstyle. So before you lie about me lying, you should check your facts
Dev note: Previously, The Twins’ Power heavily encouraged ‘slugging’ (leaving Survivors in the dying state) since Victor could chain together pounces on multiple injured Survivors, but only pounce a single healthy one. Furthermore, Survivors could often save each other before Charlotte could make it to them.
We have flipped this around: Victor will now be much more effective at injuring multiple Survivors and instead assist Charlotte – who now moves faster while Victor is latched on – in picking up the Survivor. This makes it possible for Victor to both injure and down a Survivor without being forced to switch back to Charlotte in between.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700455#Comment_3700455
But you couldn't know if they were running sabo so you're wasting a perk slot every game, "in case".
Back then there were far less useful perks. The OG meta because of sabo was to use agitation so you could hook people in the basement.
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699430#Comment_3699430
They say 60% kill rate, then they try and release insanely overpowered huntress, twins etc.
That tells me where their intentions lie. Also the trend has been kill rates increasing for quite some time now, it shows no signs of slowing down.
The twins isn't even live and that change is actually FOR survivors, because they don't like being slugged, and they literally walked back several of the huntress changes. What exactly are you on about?
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@Blueberry said:
It was useless.
Now the next version that didn't even make it out of PTB for large aura reading around hooks was solid. What we got out of PTB, was trash again though.
Not at the time. Back then sabo was much stronger. Yeah it took longer but you could "99" a sabo on hooks. So you could 99 a bunch of hooks in an area and make it impossible to hook someone. Also hooks stayed broken for 3 minutes instead of 30 seconds.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699789#Comment_3699789
That's a very unfair assessment of what was a reasonable point.
At what point does it stop being tunneling if hooking the same survivor twice or should survivors just be 100% safe until someone, or even everyone, else gets hooked?
Frankly both of those scenarios seem kinda ridiculous and highly exploitable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699786#Comment_3699786
This is the problem of the broad buzz phrase "they need to fix tunneling." I'm yet to see any suggestion that would "fix tunneling" that isn't just an exploitable safety net.
Also I should say that I don't really see a problem to fix with respect to a killer choosing whom to chase and survivors being under the threat of potential early elimination.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699830#Comment_3699830
@Reinami had a good suggestion a while back,
So there were basically 2 main ideas i have floated around here that would address tunneling. The first is to heavily heavily discourage it, the second is to make it literally completely impossible, while requiring some heavy balance changes for both sides.
1st idea:
- Remove the 4% mechanic (its dumb, gives survivors a way avoid the DC penalty at worst, and at best it completely turns the game around due to pure RNG, causing a killer to lose for something they had no control over because the game decided to give them a completely skill-less 4% at that moment)
- Things like deliverance can stay, same with the sable perk for basement unhooks, but you'd have to rework stuff like slippery meat and the luck mechanic. (probably rework luck to give you rarer items in chests or something)
- Survivors now share the FIRST hook state. But keep the second and 3rd hooks as their individual hooks.
- What this means is that when you hook a survivor once, and then hook that same survivor again, they still are on the 1st hook stage. Because the 1st hook stage is shared among all survivors.
- This does a few things:
- Tunneling becomes heavily discouraged, because you have to burn through 6 hook states to kill someone, meaning you can't "tunnel someone out early"
- Camping becomes heavily discouraged, because if you camp someone, it will take a full 6 hook states and 6 minutes for the person to die. 3 survivors should be able to finish 5 gens before 6 minutes with the killer not defending them.
- Because only the first hook state is shared, if you end up with a bad teammate who burns through your teams hooks "quickly" you won't feel cheated and die instantly, so you are still guaranteed at least 2 hooks to die, giving you a "second chance" in a chase.
- Survivors can't avoid the DC penalty anymore to get out a match they don't like.
Now, this problem WOULD address tunneling in that it discourages it, but as many have pointed out, they keep "discouraging" things, but it doesn't actually stop people from doin them. People who want to tunnel are still gonna tunnel. So my personal preference is to make it literally 100% totally IMPOSSIBLE to tunnel. So…
2nd idea:
- Remove the basekit BT
- Remove the Anti facecamp mechanic
- Rework a perks like BT, second wind, etc. With this mechanic i'd also rework the anti-tunnel ones like OTR and DS because they'd be pretty OP combined with the idea.
- When a survivor is unhooked they gain a new status effect called "Ethereal" for 30 seconds, that effectively works like the survivor version of the spirit's power. While Ethereal:
- The survivor is invisible to the killer
- The survivor makes 0 noise from the killer perspective
- The survivor leaves no scratch marks
- The survivor leaves no pools of blood
- The survivor sees the aura of all their teammates.
- The survivor moves at 200% movement speed
- The survivor has no hitbox
- The survivor is unaffected by any perks (whether they be their teammates, their own, or the killers)
- The survivor is unaffected by any killer power (hag traps don't do anything or trigger, they can walk over trapper traps etc.)
- The survivor is unable to perform a conspicuous action (no repairing gens, healing, or literally anything)
- When the effect wears off, the survivor is automatically healed to the "Healthy state" and any killer power (plague, wesker, etc.) is removed from them.
- To address camping, instead of the complicated AFC mechanic that the survivors don't know if they are building it, or how close the killer is. Simply do this (read closely because it might sound complicated):
- If the killer is within 16 meters of a hook for more than 5 seconds (with maybe a 5 second grace period to walk away) the survivor on the hook is automatically teleported to the hook that is closest to another survivor that is furthest from the killer. This happens even if another survivor is nearby, no more "it moves slower if another survivor is nearby"
- This does a few things:
- Tunneling becomes quite literally IMPOSSIBLE. The survivor basically does not exist for 30 seconds, and they are able to go anywhere they want on the map, and after they are out, they are fully healed. So even if the killer does come across them, it is a proper, reset chase. You can't tunnel what you can't see or interact with.
- The killer now KNOWS that the survivor they have hooked, is now not only on the hook, meaning they are not on a gen, but then for 30 seconds AFTER they are unhooked, they are also unable to be on a gen. This makes it work kind of like pig's power in a sense. Good pigs don't go after people who have traps on their head, they go after other people because they KNOW the ones with traps aren't doing gens. So you have this idea in your mind that a survivor who has been hooked is now on a "time out' giving you time to go after other survivors
- Camping in this method also becomes nearly IMPOSSIBLE. Because if you get too close for just a few seconds, the survivor is automatically teleported to the closest hook to the survivor that is furthest from the killer. This means that even if the killer was trying to camp, by the time they ran to the new hook the survivor teleported to, the other survivor should have been able to unhook them. Meaning that the survivor who was unhooked, is now safe from the killer for at least 30 seconds.
The 2nd method would completely make tunneling impossible from a gameplay perspective. But, it likely needs some tweaks. Generally it is assumed that tunneling is "required" in a lot of situations, so maybe 30 seconds is not enough of a "time out" for the survivor to also get fully healed. Perhaps that number needs to be longer. Or perhaps the survivor also gets a debuff to their gen repair speeds for a bit after it wears off. Or perhaps 30 seconds is just too long, and it needs to be shorter. Either way, a lot of tweaking needs to be done with the numbers, but the fundamental mechanic is to make tunneling impossible.
Also you'd probably need to buff wesker and plague a bit as their power kind of relies on the idea that it continues to work after a survivor is unhooked. You'd also probably need to have all of this apply to pyramid head cages as well. You'd also probably have to adjust pig's traps in some way as well in order to account for this mechanic. There's minor things that would need to be done to several killers basically to deal with this.
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@Blueberry said:
Is this saying survivors underestimate how much time hold w wastes or? I'm not sure the point.
This is generally true. The "optimal" strategy in a chase can be to, immediately predrop any nearby pallet that the killer must break (non mindgamable ones) then shift+w to the exact opposite corner of the map and just wait there. By the time the killer catches up to you, hits you twice and hooks you, the rest of your team should finish 3 gens. This is generally true unless you are in the center of the map. But since there is usually only 1 gen there, most of the time survivors will be on the edges on the map.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699830#Comment_3699830
@Reinami had a good suggestion a while back,
Which one?
- The bandaid fix of "just remove survivor collision"
- The share hook states one
- The completely rework the game one
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698530#Comment_3698530
Or ...
Unknown is a really strong killer with a high skill ceiling. It's not difficult to reach high win streaks with Nurse and Blight, so ...
Most survivors not knowing how to fight against Unknown, which can be difficult to learn when you don't face many of them.
Stream snipers having given up sabotaging win streaks, bc. Otz said he won't do them anymore.
I'm not saying you are wrong with the MMR changes being reverted. I'm just saying there are alternative explanations that are also perfectly reasonable. Maybe it's a combination of all.
You can figure that out by watching the matches and see how good or bad the survivors that he goes against play.
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@jamally093 said:
So the killer giving hatch a nice thing to some. But when do you the person reading this thing by the way hi. Give hatch? Is it just when you feel like it or are there a few rule sets you have when giving hatch.
For me it's when someone got screwed over by their teammates sandbagging or blocking them in a corner so they can't move. Basically they experience terrible matchmaking so I give them hatch to be nice.
Of course this feeling has also been slightly broken as a few bad experiences mainly with the killer giving me hatch which ended with them closing it in my face and then hooking me reason why I don't trust people who drop you near hatch and don't back away.
But you nice viewer what makes you give that Dwight,Meg...that one guy named John over there hatch.
I don't give hatch, but i don't slug for the 4k. Usually if i'm down to 2 survivors, i'll chase one and hook them, if they aren't dead, then facecamp them, so they can unhook themselves and then i get another chase until they die, or if their teammate comes to save them i'll swap to the teammate.
Then when hatch is open, i'll look for it and close it. Then i'll patrol the gates. If the gates are far apart or the survivor is sneaky and gets out, good for them, if not, i get another kill.
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@Doxie said:
Subtle cheating how? I see odd things but honestly can never tell. Just curious what to look for. Had a killer that found me twice. I was using distortion. I asked him how he found me and he said audio cues. Plausible however both times I was not moving and crouched also forgot to mention not injured. I reported just in case. Also there are times survivors are a bit faster than they should be (again just seems as much I could totally be wrong) I just feel on long straight aways I should be catching unless they are in a sprint burst. Just curious on what to look for
After playing the game for thousands of hours you can usually spot it pretty easily. Some examples i would see are.
- Generators going just a little bit faster than they should based on the perks and loadouts you see in the endgame.
- Survivors taking just a "little" bit too long to catch up to in the open.
- Survivors being just a "little" bit further away than they should be when they break LoS and you spot them the next round of the loop
- Survivors vaulting just a "little" bit faster than they should despite not having resilience.
- Survivors magically knowing where you are all the time through a wall (this is especially obvious when you run aura perks and can see them through the wall)
I would say the most common thing is to increase their movement speed to around 103-104. 103-104 is JUST enough to make a big difference (remember MFT?) while being hard to notice. The other is giving themselves a big burst in speed when they break LoS for a split secon. All it takes is a quick half second of 150 speed when they round a corner and think you can't see them. The other stuff tends to be survivors "having" perks while not actually having those perks. As is the case for resilience. For example the other day, there was a survivor i chased who clearly had resilience, even while not injured, but they did not actually have the perk resilience.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697253#Comment_3697253
Because you can not remember which out of the 25 pallets got dropped or know exactly because of perspective. It is not only conveniencs, but also reliability.
If you play killer you actually learn how to do this quite often. Killer has to keep track of tons of things. Where loops are, what pallets are already broken, general area where survivors are in relation to generators. Which survivors have been hooked and their hook states etc.
I would suggest if you have a hard time tracking which pallets are broken using AMN, give killer a shot for a while to improve how well you remember things in the game.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697151#Comment_3697151
I don't mind it at all, I think the issues for survivor are that the middle may be full of pallets but they are either slightly unsafe to very unsafe fillers.
The issue I have is the premise of the thread - solo randoms pretty much always do the top gen or the far gen in the other corner creating an inevitable nightmare late game where you only have mid gens with nothing but unsafe pallets to play around.
If survivors played this map right for once the map would be rough for killers to pressure without resorting to only patrolling mid to force a 3 gen
Meaning they have to skillfully get a stun on the killer instead of just predropping and getting a free +20 seconds added to a chase?
Generally people will chose the path of least resistance for sure. But i'd argue that every pallet should be mindgamable.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696400#Comment_3696400
What is the name of the role the survivors are facing?
What is the entire lore of the game based off of? Is it based off of "kill this person as efficiently as possible" or is it based on the entity feeding off of "hope"?
Because it is definitely the latter. And you know what gives people more hope that can be fed off of? Actually having a chance at escaping and being in the trial LONGER rather than shorter. If they get killed, they just get sent back to the campfire with their memories erased to do it all over again. But if a killer keeps them in the match and makes them "suffer" (from a lore standpoint) then the entity gets more hope to feed off of. A killer proxy camping and tunneling a survivor out is not giving them "hope"
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Blame the devs for making ruin usless then.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696389#Comment_3696389
"hook-oriented" gameplay only feels good for survivors
Killers want to killSpeak for yourself. I play the game for the chases, and hooks = more chases.
Do survivors play the game to hold m1 on a gen?
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True, but this is a problem with the game in general. A killer can't know that survivors are gonna last second swap to 4 flashlights and should have brought lightborn. A killer can't know that they are against an efficient SWF team that is gonna slam gens hard and should bring a ton of gen defense. A killer can't know that you have flip flop until they get hit by it.
This is fundamental problem with the game itself, where, because you can't know anything, you take the perks that are useful in the largest number of situations. Which is why survivors take the same 10 perks and killers take the same 10 perks.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/2DGr3Z39Up
Tell me what I we could have done or brought that would have made a difference here. Please. Tell me unbreakable, a 1 time use would have helped, DS...oh wait I was never hooked...OTR....oh wait I was never hooked.
I'm gonna go with what someone in that reddit thread said:
Survivor with a flashlight not throwing the game for a save challenge (impossible)He downed Zarina, saw scratchmarks/saw the gen had progress, and knew at least one of you had a beam. He's supposed to pick her up in the open?
The you had a decent tile to loop him on for a bit, but decided to run into the open because you thought a pallet might be better. Then Vittorio saves you, you get downed again, and somehow he gets downed 3 seconds later. Not gonna lie, this is looking like a skill issue. Ada seemed to be the only one that knew what she was doing.
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@Jay_K said:
Recently, since maybe release of chucky, I have been finding that I have been aimed straight into some sort of scenery or a window frame when going for some hits. Usually this happens when going for a weird angle but more and more I'm refused the hit because the game decided that i should hit scenery and not a survivor.
Anyone else been struggling more with this?
Now to give some context this happens when I'm making hit attempts at certain angles.For example: I'm chasing a survivor and they are going for a vault at a window to the left or right of us. I swing and if the camera stayed in the direction I point it I would get the hit but the "Aim Assist" kicks in and directs me to the edge of the window not the survivor.
For anyone who doesn't know what Aim Assist is according to devs it is a system that automatically changes your camera angle slightly so you can visually see the hit better. (simplified but its what dev's told us on a live stream way back when). The issue with this is that slight camera change is unpredictable and as we are trying to manually angle for a hit the change then aims us into something completely different. This therefore has been dubbed "Auto Aim" by many many people.
Not trying to cause any hate towards game or devs just curious if anyone else is seeing this come up more and more in their games.
Also before someone says it yeah there are many times when it most likely is my fault but there are defiantly a lot of times when it is not.Yes, happens at least once a game now.
This was actually super apparent with the oni event. The "auto aim" is clearly not just "aim dressing" and is actually locking onto survivors. With the oni event you would often lock on to survivors over a wall.
Yeah i know it was a goofy event and wasn't expecting it to work 100%, but i'm more saying that the flaws of the auto aim became much clearer due to the event.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693358#Comment_3693358
ok and at higher MMR GOOD oni players, they know how to deal with good survivors. ( i can easily reverse that statement).He is one of the strongest killers in the game for a reason. He is ranked A tier by almost everyone on the tierlist. If you think he is weak it’s because your not good with the killer (or you play on console which is a massive disadvantage)
“you can definitely tell the difference between people who are playing at lower mmr brackets and higher ones.”
I cant tell, with how inconsistent the matchmaking is high mmr isnt all that impressive
Correct, he is strong, because once he lands that first hit and gets his power, he can easily snowball in less than 60 seconds into winning by just downing everyone instantly. But getting that first hit means he probably loses 3 gens against a good team which is my point.
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@Kai6864 said:
So I’ve had a strange increase in PH games lately and they made me think - why are PH’s cages exempt from all the new features + does not activate perks?
I understand that there are (some) anti-tunnel/camp features already encapsulated within the cages, such as them spawning the furthest point from the killer and them moving when the killer gets too close but I don’t think they are good enough to justify none of the new measures (like endurance after unhook) being present.
With recent developments and how the cages work, such as the reduction of map sizes across the board and the cage always spawning predictably in (most likely) a corner across the map from you, it’s no longer difficult to just walk up after the notification and chase the survivor again, who’s guaranteed not to have endurance from the unhook or off the record, nor decisive strike and perhaps even dead hard technically (though I’m not sure of that one).
I do understand the opposite perspective as well, that with cages you can’t proc things like scourge hook perks but I’d say having the capability to essentially 2 hook someone with little to no fear of perk consequences makes up for it. Cages should be distinct from hooks otherwise why would you choose to use them? The added difficulty of making a survivor tormented should be worth something extra. However I don’t think that benefit should be tied to tunnelling. I think there should be a negative consequence for the rescuer, if anything (they are rescuing someone from a very spiky cage after all!), and it adds a nice risk/reward with saving a team member, potentially removing your own torment, but at some form of cost to you for rescuing them.Because cages are not hooks.
Its also the only thing he really has going for him right now that he can hard tunnel people out so easily. Would not be opposed to them changing this and then making his other part of his power better (bring back old PH that doesn't feel super clunky using his power)
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693794#Comment_3693794
How is that good? Everyone knows this is not gonna make it to live servers anyway. What's the point?
Because it takes some nuance to figure these things out. What exactly IS the problem. Its "strong" yes, but is it just plain too strong? Does it lack counterplay? Do they need to weaken it to just make it weaker? Or is there some counterplay that might be added? These are the types of things that you need to test to determine what exactly the problem is. Maybe the whole thing actually feels pretty good, but its just too strong, or maybe it feels totally wrong, and they need to go back to the drawing board.
It gives you an indication of where to go with things.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694141#Comment_3694141
My complaint is for bugs reported that remain in the game half a year after reporting them.
That's not related to the PTB
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694209#Comment_3694209
If you AFK in a match as a Killer, you won't receive any Bloodpoints. Not only that, but the game detects it and penalizes you in the same way as if you had DC'ed. I'm not sure what the benefit of AFKing is anymore, to be honest. Unless they have a system where the killer also moves and/or spams M1, they'd get penalized—no BP gain, no rift fragments gain, nothing. The only thing would be lowering their MMR, but that alone wouldn't explain why OP encounters that many people doing itNot sure if you read the full OP but they aren't just AFKing, they are doing what you said and playing doctor and running a script that randomly walks them around, swings their weapon, and uses their power.
So yeah, you aren't gonna get a TON of bloodpoints, but you probably could get 8-10k a game. Which again, if you are running 24/7, and games last around 8 minutes (if the survivors farm a bit too), 1-2 minutes in queue, and 1 minute of loading. You are talking 13 million bloodpoints. And they probably script spending them too when they cap out.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I don't doubt the validity of the claim but my question is "why?". What purpose does loading into a game and being AFK serve? Is this just one of those things where people will try to buy accounts with characters at max level so they go through some kind of 3rd party account seller who uses bots to farm blood points and the way they do this is just start matches and AFK cause the killer still gets blood points just from survivors running around the AFK killer? That's admittedly a lot of assumptions on my part. But it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Imagine you run it 24/7, you can farm bloodpoints, rift fragments, and shards pretty easily.
Additionally, you are going to lose every game, so you tank your MMR massively making your matches easier moving forward.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693794#Comment_3693794
I just feel like some of this stuff is so obvious that they shouldn't even come to a testing server. They should have been identified as bad and never seen the light of day.
If something is so problematic that players could predict it before even testing it what is the point
Because it isn't always the case. Like, we don't know that they don't know. It could be that they know, but they want to get it out there anyway, because they know its not going to work, but aren't sure all the reasons why and it takes time to figure those things out.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693794#Comment_3693794
If they actually listen...
So, i want you to take a look back at all of the multiple PTBs we have had lately, where something wasn't good, and how they changed it. Remember:
- They wanted to nerf billy addons, they didn't
- They wanted to make trickster ridiculous, they walked back some changes before it went live
- They wanted to make Huntress ridiculous, they walked back some changes before it went live, and then again some more later
- They made changes to sadako that made her terrible, walked back some of the changes before they went live, and some more after
- They wanted to do the basekit unbreakable, turned out that failed and they didn't do it.
These are just a few i could think of off the top of my head.
I am critical of BHVR most of the time, but right now they are doing testing right. They are finally making ACTUAL changes to things, and putting them on the PTB so we can test things, and then actually listening to feedback.
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@moputopia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693794#Comment_3693794
Of course it's good to test new changes, but a PTB like this is supposed to be a playable product. It's not like the finisher mori test, to see where it lands. There is also not that much time to implement too many changes and fixes in the 2-3 weeks before next patch goes live, across all the different platforms.
I am for sure glad players are able to identify bugs and problematic aspects before the actual update drops, but it doesn't really create confidence when there's this many that are this obvious.
What about the current PTB is "unplayable"?
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This outlines it:
But basically you get
- 500 per hook
- 200 for each hook state
- a bonus 250 for hooking during endgame collapse
- A bonus 500 for killing during endgame collapse
So if you hook everyone 3 times but don't hit endgame you get 9600 points.
But, if you slug everyone on the ground, and then hook them all killing them or the survivors intentional kill themselves on hook, you end up with far less of around 4400.
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@BlueHorkew said:
I know the ptb is for testing and are not final builds. But is really bad look the amount of bad ptbs with game breaking changes that the community finds out in less than an hour.
How does this stuff keep happening?That's actually a good thing, they want to test crazy changes before they go live to see where stuff lands.
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@MissiCiv said:
The devs need only to remove the infection speed boost of his power that's enough
Yeah really just this. They should not get a speedboost at all when infected. When hit while infected and taking damage is totally fine.
As a more nice to have:
The AI of the zombies also needs to be fixed up a big more because they still get stuck on things or wander to weird spots. If they set it up so they had a simple patrol path between each generator, and then chase survivors, then if the survivor goes away they go back to their generator patrol. It would work out much better.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
it wasn't like that in the past, but why is it now? is it cuz there is a lot of new stuff in this PTB?
The game is made in unreal. Unreal has a notorious problem of small changes sometimes needing you to just redownload the whole game.