Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693339#Comment_3693339
I played vs lipy who is a p100 oni main on twitch and sure i was in solo que but he killed me both times. He was really good with the demo Dash
“High mmr” you cant see what your match making is so what is the point in even mentioning that
I don't say it as a "brag" or anything like that, yeah you can't see it, but if you watch some streams, you can definitely tell the difference between people who are playing at lower mmr brackets and higher ones.
The point is that at higher MMR against GOOD survivor teams, they know how to deal with oni, and he is literally an m1 killer until he gets his power. All you have to do is predrop a couple of pallets and he will lose 3 gens.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693316#Comment_3693316
oni bullied? Yeah i dont think so
You never played him at high MMR? You just predrop pallets and he can't do anything. By the time you land your first hit, you are probably down to 2 gens.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693297#Comment_3693297
“I am convinced that survivor players only "like" going against the killers that are bad because they can bully them. ”
Nah thats just your killer bias
I have a killer bias despite playing both roles around 50/50? Makes sense.
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Lets just say everything C and below you don't have a good time with. At least you are consistent, but looking at the rest of them, i have seen people complain about:
- Sadako is unfun because of TVs
- Pinhead is unfun because box
- There was literally a Freddy thread yesterday
- Wraith is complained about all the time (Hit and run is boring)
- There was literally a bubba thread yesterday complaining that he facecamps (I guess AFC deactivates when you play bubba?)
- People constantly complain about how often they see wesker
- People constantly complain about blight
- People constantly complain about Pyramid head and "tunneling"
- People constantly complain about billy now that he doesn't suck.
So leaving that, you have nemesis demogorgon and oni.
Oni and demo are super bullied by good survivors because oni doesn't have a power if he doesn't land his, and demogorgon is so easy to bully its not even fun for the survivors anymore.
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I am convinced that survivor players only "like" going against the killers that are bad because they can bully them. This happened when they reworked billy. It used to be "i love going against billy hes so fun" to suddenly now people don't like going against billy anymore. Showing that it wasn't billy they liked, it was how easy he was to bully.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
Her basekit ability is just so lame to go against. She can infect anything you interact with, spew and infect you to a broken and injured state while losing almost no mobility during the spew, you gain infection by moving and interacting even without being attacked by her, she negates any healing perks and medkits with her base kit ability, the only way to heal against her is the pools of water which gives her a stupid good ability with lots of range and janky hit boxes that can hit you just about anywhere unless you are lucky or at JUST the right spot. And if you do heal at the pools it's pointless because you get sick again right away from gens and unhooks. So you stay injured the entire game basically with no real way to counter it.
The idea behind her is cool but playing against it is absolutely miserable especially since she can completely negate tons of perks
So which killers do you LIKE going against?
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@SuperCop said:
Downed isn't good enough. Another survivor should be hooked. That idea sounds like something that could be abused way too easily considering very often killer can easily down someone that unhooks you right after unhook.
So DS disappears right after unhook in those cases and tunneling is way easier via camp/proxy and taking cheap shots at someone coming in to rescue.
Yeah...No thanks.
But that doesn't solve the problem of flashlight and pallet saves. If i down someone and pick them up and a recently unhooked person goes for a save. They should have DS deactivate because i'm not tunneling them.
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@fulltonon said:
It's unbelievably stupid we still don't have a way to manually manage sounds of each things, are they really want to make players deaf?
Forced sound balance in gaming is literally worst thing we got, and YET we can still gain unintended advantage by equializer and "good headphone", it's seriously stupid and game should just allow players to balance everything by themselves.
Look how long it took us to get an FOV slider, despite it literally being an accessibility issue.
Imagine trying to play this game if you were entirely deaf. Personally i have hearing issues myself and its why i can't play billy, because i end up with really bad tinnitus afterwards.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692697#Comment_3692697
There are 2 situations and you just described the one we are literally NOT talking about.
It IS what we are talking about.
I'm stating that this situation the killer is LITERALLY by DEFINITION not tunneling.
You are legit splitting hairs here. If you're going this route, you might as well argue that if the killer kicks a gen or a breakable wall, it disables all anti-tunnel.
The reality is that this allows killers to circumvent anti-tunnel, thus once again buffing tunnelling.
My point is, EVEN IN THIS SITUATION YOU BROUGHT UP, the survivor has MORE than enough time to literally run to the OPPOSITE END OF THE MAP if they need to, in order to get somewhere safe. At that point, if you are getting downed again, you are just bad at being chased, and that is a skill issue.
And it doesn't matter.
If you are immediately targeting a survivor who has just been unhooked, you will get hit with DS. That is DS's exact purpose, and the very reason why DS should not disable under this condition.
And if, as you say, they go down that fast that it's a 'skill issue', just pick 'em up, eat the DS, and get the down again: You're already winning anyway. You're essentially complaining about win-win situations not being killer-sided enough.
Y'all are losing the plot with DS. It's a survivor perk, not a basekit QoL feature. Peanits said it too: This buff to DS is NOT the be-all-end-all 'solution' to tunnelling. You have a point about flashlight saves. You don't have a point about this hook condition.
'But it's an anti-tunnel perk and if you hook someone else you're not tunnelling'
Point out to me where, in DS's description, it states that this perk is intended purely and exclusively as an anti-tunnel feature.
So at this point if you are complaining about "Soft tunneling" you really need to get a grip with reality, because you cannot expect killers to evenly spread hooks out among every single player for the "fun" of the survivors with the game in its current state.
The year is 2027. Killrates are up to 79% and the average winrates for killers is at 86.5%. 'Honestly, I think the basekit BT should go. You can't expect killers to not instadown off-hook with the game in its current state'.
But you brough up that what i said in this was that it would take the killer 60 seconds to catch up, which means DS is disabled, we literally agree on this.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692318#Comment_3692318
Slugging for 4K is incredibly boring the strat where you slug second last and search whole map to find the last one. Match drags forever and forever and usually killers who do it let the second last one wiggle out ones they about to bleed out and try to get them to show where the last one is. I liked the new gamemode where that thing didn't exist.
When killer sees the other survivor aftet downing other and goes aftet them that's not slugging for 4K. There the other survivor will have to likely be less than minute on the ground unless he hides which is as annoying as slugging for 4K as then killer has to spend 4 minutes finding them.
I never said it wasn't "boring" i said it wasn't "toxic"
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692069#Comment_3692069
Dull merchant has still her drones so she can still make it long long match before you get the gens done. Most survivor players don't have the patience for that and they eventually make mistake which lead to her getting down. 3 gen set up is still very rough in dead dawg saloon for example.
The drones don't work when you work a gen, so how exactly is she able to make the match any longer than say, a knight, or something?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692412#Comment_3692412
No, at that point they are being tunneled, and they have far less time to get to a safe place
That depends on the distance the killer is at, doesn't it?
You're still describing a scenario where the survivor is pulled off hook and is immediately being targeted again.
Are you intentionally doing this?
There are 2 situations and you just described the one we are literally NOT talking about.
- The survivor is unhooked and the killer immediately tunnels them
- This is precisely why DS exists and it should still be in play here
- The survivor is unhooked, and the killer does a hook trade with the person who unhooked them
- This was the reason you gave why: "We can't have DS disable when another survivor is downed because of this"
- I'm stating that this situation the killer is LITERALLY by DEFINITION not tunneling. Because they hooked a different person. What you are complaining about here is what people are starting to describe as "Soft tunneling" which Tru3 mentioned in his recent discussion with otz, where you target 2 different survivors and go for them rather than the other 2.
- My point is, EVEN IN THIS SITUATION YOU BROUGHT UP, the survivor has MORE than enough time to literally run to the OPPOSITE END OF THE MAP if they need to, in order to get somewhere safe. At that point, if you are getting downed again, you are just bad at being chased, and that is a skill issue.
- So at this point if you are complaining about "Soft tunneling" you really need to get a grip with reality, because you cannot expect killers to evenly spread hooks out among every single player for the "fun" of the survivors with the game in its current state.
- The survivor is unhooked and the killer immediately tunnels them
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692169#Comment_3692169
That doesn't change things, though, does it?
If the survivor gets pulled off the hook, and the killer, wherever they are, immediately turns to head towards the hook and chase that survivor down, do you also state that the survivor isn't getting tunnelled because they had time to make it to a strong loop?
No, at that point they are being tunneled, and they have far less time to get to a safe place, so DS should still be in play. We are discussing the situation where the killer downs and then hooks the person who did the unhooking and then proceeds to go after the person who was hooked. Because that was the scenario that was brough up when i said that downing a different survivor should disable DS.
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@bjorksnas said:
Why does it seem like every other post here recently about toxicity, or whats wrong with dbd, or what the devs should buff / nerf / change next is posted by a new account as their first post.
Half the time they don't even come back to respond to the comments its like someone on some other platform god mad enough they came here to make it seem more of a widespread problem or someone keeps making alts for some reason.
Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me
I'd say that is probably just people trolling and trying to start drama. If they actually cared to defend their take, they'd post on their actual account.
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@Guroneko said:
About less than a week ago (♪week ago♪), I was playing as Meg on a Badham map. In the second floor of its main house, there's an empty closet opposite the Gen. While hiding, Chucky sniffed me out trying to ninja the generator and slugged me there. Understandable— I play just as much Killer and get just as upset at sneaky survivor rats poking my gens before sprint bursting away.
What I DON'T understand is why he came back into the closet and, instead of picking up and hooking Meg, proceeded to roleplay "taking advantage of her." I dunno what words BHVR's decided to filter, but just think of the grossest thing and go with that. Backpedaling and holding forward repeatedly. Needless to say, I didn't do much afterwards besides quit DbD for the day.
Fast forward to today. I'm playing Yoichi on Midwich against another Chuck. After a grueling 11 minute game, it's finally down to a Quentin and I to try and wrap up 2 gens. I did my damnedest up until Chuck slugged Quentin CLEAR across the map and left him to look for me, just so I couldn't Hatch out of the match.
I mention Yoichi because I'm using Empathic Connection, so Quentin can see me across the map since he's injured. I also recognize what Chucky is trying to do here, fight the urge to quit and do my best to have fun with it. I hide in basement, emote to Quentin to crawl to me while Chuck wastes time searching and I pick him back up so we can have another go at it.
No luck. Chuck finds Quentin again while I'm on a gen, slugs him while I'm clear across the map a second time and proceeds to deny Quentin his right to leave the game with his well-earned BP. At this point I simply throw up my hands, sprint to the center of Midwich's courtyard and force notifications until he finds me.
His response after I call him out on "forcing a 4k" instead of "earning" it post-game? Something to the effect of "I got a 4k tho." At the same time, I was being lambasted by a Cheryl for "jerking around" instead of "playing the game."
I took a couple of breaks from the game after Nemesis and RPD were released. Best thing that ever happened in a multiplayer game I enjoy. Now? I'm wondering if licensed characters/killers are even worth the baggage they bring.
Bonus round: Which Killers attracted the most toxic individuals before Chuck? In hindsight, I find this psychological phenomena fascinating. It makes me wonder what types of people watched Child's Play growing up.
EDIT: I apologize if this should've been labeled discussion instead of question. These events incited my first time using the forums.
Your first thing you said is no different than survivors teabagging and you are reading far far too much into it.
For the second one, slugging for the 4k is definitely annoying, but it isn't toxic, nor is anyone forcing anyone to do anything, the survivor on the ground will eventually bleed out after 4 minutes.
"Toxic" is when someone calls you racial slurs in the endgame chat. A playstyle is not "toxic" it is just that, a playstyle. You might not like it, but the game lets them do it, so it is fair game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692156#Comment_3692156
You're making a mistake though.
To close the gap of 32 meters, the killer will gain 0.6 meters of distance per second. That takes the killer 53.3 (again, we'll round down) 53 seconds.
That means in an infinite straight line, the killer spent 8.2 seconds hooking the original person, and downing the unhooked survivor takes another 53 seconds for a total of 61.2 seconds.
My point is simple. If you deactivated DS when you did a hook trade, you would not be tunneling, because the original survivor who was hooked would have MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME to get from literally one side of the map to the exact opposite end of the map and probably heal themselves before the killer ever got them.
That .6 meters per second ONLY applies if the survivor is continuously running away from the killer. The second that survivor stops running, the killer closes the gap significantly faster. You do not have 60 seconds of free time. What you are describing, with the .6 m/s catch-up, is a chase. In other words, you just got pulled off hook, and the killer is chasing you down.
This is also known as tunnelling.
You could never get that heal off in ten seconds, because the killer doesn't need ten seconds to close the gap if the survivor stops moving to heal.
If, and only IF, the survivor is able to run continuously to try and make distance from the killer, does he have the ability to stretch that distance out to 60 seconds, but at any given time, a ten second head start will not put the killer any further away from the survivor than ten seconds. As in: If the survivor stops, it'll take less than ten seconds for the killer to catch up.
Again: Your whole model is dependent on the survivor being stuck in chase from the moment they're unhooked. Which is what DS is designed to punish.
I feel like you are intentionally missing the point now.
Yes, i understand that it only matters if the survivor is running the whole time. But given that a map is 100 x 100 square meters, the math checks out, that the survivor has enough time to get to say, the killer shack (one of the strongest structures in the game) even if it is on the complete opposite end of the map. So they have plenty of time to get to a safe area, and then some.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691989#Comment_3691989
You're changing things up. It's not a 60 second head start, it's a 10 second head start. But it doesn't even matter, because if, according to you, you can't catch up to this survivor within 60 seconds, they already cannot have DS anymore.
You seem to be missing the point. So i'll spell it out more clearly. You mentioned that the killer would just hook trade and go after the unhooked person and that was still "tunneling". I'm making the point that by definition it is not tunneling for the following reasons.
If you factor in the hook trade after the survivor gets unhooked, the following happens, and i'll be more generous for the survivor side in the math this time around to show how obvious it is.
- The killer hits the unhooker a second time, downing them and sits through a 2.7 wipe animation.
- The killer positions themself over the person they just downed, lets say that takes 1 second.
- The killer picks up the downed survivor, this takes 3 seconds
- The killer hooks the downed survivor, this takes 1.5 seconds
In total, the killer spend 2.7 + 1 + 3 +1.5 seconds downing the unhooker and completing the hook trade. That is a total of 8.2 seconds.
During that 8.2 seconds, the person who was just unhooked, is able to move a distance of 36.08 (we'll round to 36) meters.
A killer moves at a default speed of 4.6 meters per second and needs to be within 3.5 meters to do a successful lunge attack. That means the survivor still running, and the killer pursuing, the killer needs to close a gap of 36 - 3.5 = 32.5 meters.
The survivor for 10 seconds moves at 4.4 meters per second. So for 10 - 8.2 (the killer was effectively standing still for 8.2 seconds) the survivor moves at 4.4 m/s for 1.8 more seconds, and then at 4 m/s for the rest of the chase. So after 1.8 seconds, the killer has gained 0.36 meters of distance. This puts the killer at needing to close a gap of 32.14 meters (we'll round down in favor of the survivor to 32 meters) to land a hit..
To close the gap of 32 meters, the killer will gain 0.6 meters of distance per second. That takes the killer 53.3 (again, we'll round down) 53 seconds.
That means in an infinite straight line, the killer spent 8.2 seconds hooking the original person, and downing the unhooked survivor takes another 53 seconds for a total of 61.2 seconds.
Now again, obviously, the map is not an infinite straight line. Maps are typically around 100 x 100 meters square. Generally they aren't perfect squares, but they have roughly the same area.
My point is simple. If you deactivated DS when you did a hook trade, you would not be tunneling, because the original survivor who was hooked would have MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME to get from literally one side of the map to the exact opposite end of the map and probably heal themselves before the killer ever got them. And, as you pointed out, it doesn't matter because the DS timer would be up anyway, so if you deactivate it when another survivor is downed, it isn't going to hurt the unhooked survivor in this case.
Where it DOES come into play, is when say, someone gets unhooked, you down someone else and then the original unhooked guy, uses his temporary powers of invincibility, to go for a pallet save, or a flashlight save, or body blocking to prevent you from hooking. Etc. Because BY DEFINITION the unhooked guy is LITERALLY not being tunneled, because you LITERALLY downed someone else and are attempting to unhook them.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691657#Comment_3691657
Dull merchant can still camp 3 gens well some maps they are side by side and she camps usually them at start.
Any killer can do that, but the point is that you will eventually win. The killer in these scenarios has a few options:
- Commit to the chase
- Do not commit to the chase
If they commit to the chase, you simply have the other survivors finish the gens, and no problem there.
If they don't commit to the chase, 1 of 2 things happens:
- They kick the gen
- They do not kick the gen
If they kick the gen, you just repeat the scenario, and eventually they run out of gen kicks and then they cannot kick the gen and you move on to the "they did not kick the gen" step.
If they don't kick the gen, your progress on that gen is permanent and will continue to increase until eventually the gen is complete.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691657#Comment_3691657
Is this new? I've never been told this before lol
If you consider something that's 3 months old as "new" then yeah it's new:
Specifically this:
Generators System Update
The 3-gen strategy (identifying the closest 3 Generators and defending only them) has become very strong, especially on certain Killers. This can lead to very long games and frustration. To help prevent such situations, the following now applies:
- Each Generator can only suffer 8 regression events maximum.
- After the max has been reached on a Generator, that Generator can no longer be regressed by the Killer (including kicks, Add-ons, and Perk-related regressions).
- Number of regressions per Generator is indicated by increasing VFX after 3 or more regression events.
- Gens at max regression events cannot regress by the Killer (including kicks, Add-ons, and Perk-related regressions).
- Survivors failing Skill Checks still regress Generators normally and do not count as regression events.
- Killer kick regression is increased from 2.5% to 5%.
- "Gen tapping" is no longer possible. To stop a Generator from regressing, a Survivor must repair 5% of the Generator.
- Regression does not occur while repairs are in progress.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691974#Comment_3691974
It takes you 60 seconds to hook someone?
Besides, if it takes you 60 seconds to catch up, DS is already disabled anyway.Did you not read what i wrote?
Here it is, but if you don't want to read it because of math, it is simple
Even if you hook trade, the person who just got unhooked gets a 10 second head start. In this math i didn't even factor in the fact that they run faster due to the basekit BT. A 10 second headstart, in an infinite straight line, is a 60 second head start, in that it takes a killer 60 seconds to catch up. Yes, it is true that maps are not an infinite straight line, but the point is that you have PLENTY of time, to run to the literal OPPOSITE END of the map if you need to in order to get somewhere safe like shack pallet.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691798#Comment_3691798
But BY DEFINITION you are not tunneling if someone else is being hooked. PERIOD. Even if someone saved the survivor, got hit, and did a trade, do you realize HOW MUCH time it takes the killer to hook that new person?
You have to:
- Wait for 2.7 wipe animation
- "Fiddle" about for 2-3 seconds because the game decides to "lag" them in some random position on the ground
- 3 second pickup animation
- 1.5 second hook animation
That's around 10 full seconds. Do you know how FAR a survivor can get in 10 seconds? That is a full 40 meters. Do you know how LONG it takes a killer to catch up to a survivor with a full 10 second head start? 60 seconds. Basically, you could be on one end of the map and want to run to the exact opposite corner, and you would not only beat the killer to that corner, but even after you stopped moving it would take the killer another 10 seconds to even get to you.
That is MORE than enough time for you to run to a safe area of the map and still have plenty of time to hide as your scratch marks disappear and make it difficult to track where you went. At that point if you get caught again you are just bad at hiding from the killer.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691976#Comment_3691976
what’s comp? And since when does Bhvr balance around it?
There are 2 possible beliefs one can hold that are mutually exlusive.
- Balance the game around high level players
- Balance the game around average skill players
If you believe 1 is true, then the huntress buff makes a lot of sense. If you believe 2 is true, then when is nurse getting massive buffs since she has the lowest kill rate in the game?
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Huntress didn't need buffs to begin with.
I've never seen a huntress in comp, have you?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
Oh yes, let my toxic/dumb teammate sabotage me by going down….
I know where your argument comes from, but no, I don't need an anti-tunnel perk to be dependent on the dumbness of my teammates.
You shouldn't balance the game around your "dumb teammates" because if you did then killer would never be able to get kills.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691916#Comment_3691916
That's around 10 full seconds. Do you know how FAR a survivor can get in 10 seconds?
Not far enough. Scratch marks will still point you out, so there's zero chance to break the chase. Even if you do start walking, due to your slow movement, you can't make meaningful distance, and a quick sweep will have the killer find you again.
Not to mention that if you get that hook trade, you shouldn't then be rewarded by also disabling the most easy-to-circumvent perk that survivors have. You're already winning, you don't need to win harder, and certainly not at the expense of another survivor's playability.
A 60 second head start isn't enough? What world do you live in? Are the rest of the survivors just standing around looking at a wall instead of working gens?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691700#Comment_3691700
Even that one I don't agree with. Hook trading would immediately kill DS and thus produce more tunnelling.
Overall, the only condition I can think of that DS should be affected by is using a flashlight. In any other case, DS is entirely avoidable or useless. You don't need to commit to the same target repeatedly and you can pick someone else, especially if you can hook someone and then down the first target again within 60 seconds of them being unhooked. At that point, you are already winning really hard and can absolutely afford to go for someone else.
But BY DEFINITION you are not tunneling if someone else is being hooked. PERIOD. Even if someone saved the survivor, got hit, and did a trade, do you realize HOW MUCH time it takes the killer to hook that new person?
You have to:
- Wait for 2.7 wipe animation
- "Fiddle" about for 2-3 seconds because the game decides to "lag" them in some random position on the ground
- 3 second pickup animation
- 1.5 second hook animation
That's around 10 full seconds. Do you know how FAR a survivor can get in 10 seconds? That is a full 40 meters. Do you know how LONG it takes a killer to catch up to a survivor with a full 10 second head start? 60 seconds. Basically, you could be on one end of the map and want to run to the exact opposite corner, and you would not only beat the killer to that corner, but even after you stopped moving it would take the killer another 10 seconds to even get to you.
That is MORE than enough time for you to run to a safe area of the map and still have plenty of time to hide as your scratch marks disappear and make it difficult to track where you went. At that point if you get caught again you are just bad at hiding from the killer.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
nah no thanks, i can tell this ds change is scarying you tho
Take a look at my post count.
I have been playing for a long long time, i have well over 3.5k hours at this point. I was around with the ORIGINAL DS. You know, the one where you had to dribble survivors to counter it? That one. Believe me, this gutted version of it does not "scare" me. The problem is that the perk has been redesigned over and over again, and at this point it is clear the intention is that it is an anti-tunnel perk. The problem is that there are tons of ways that survivors can FORCE you into a position where you are literally trying NOT to tunnel, but they can offensively use this ability by taking advantage of it. This is no different than back when you could just do gens in the killer's face and hop into a locker before the conspicuous action change.
I'm simply stating that, if you are not being tunneled. DS Should, by design, do nothing. And there are tons of things that can happen where a survivor is NOT being tunneled, and yet they still are able to use DS.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
nah no thanks, i can tell this ds change is scarying you tho
I mean, yeah, i tend to get tons of high level survivors, and the use DS offensively. So even though i can go out of my to not tunnel they use the fact that they have DS to make offensive plays, which is not the purpose of the perk.
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
There’s nothing wrong with DS as it punishes hard tunneling. Old DS was mad annoying as I allowed you to do gens and such, but also keep it active and survivors would force a grab off gens into a DS. 5 seconds helps newer or less-experienced survivors the most to actually have a chance to escape a tunneling killer by getting to a possibly better position for surviving longer than they would have otherwise.
The problem is that there are still things that survivors can do to "progress" the game while not being tunneled and still get to keep their DS. The big one right now is they can do pallet saves, and flashlight saves.
The best solution is to:
- Buff DS back to 5 seconds, hell i'll even say buff it to like 7 seconds, why not
- Add in: "Deactivates if another survivor enters the dying state"
Problem solved.
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@MrDardon said:
Let's see how their new effects will feel like.
Clown:
- Sticky Soda Bottle (Rework): Now increases the Invigorated effect by 2 %.
- Cheap Gin Bottle (Rework): Now increases the Invigorated effect by 3 %.
Huntress:
- Leather Loop (Rework): Hitting a hatchet grants 2 % Haste for 5 seconds.
- Infantry Belt (Rework): Hitting a hatchet grants 3 % Haste for 5 seconds.
I'd like to see them give each killer 1 more bottle/hatchet, since now you get the big one for free, but you can't run the little one anymore. That way you can still get the same amount as if you use to take both ammo addons. Or give back the 1 extra one and keep the ones that gave 2 ammo as they reworked them.
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@SirXenomorph said:
It is a funny one. Has a lot potential, but how it is now is not really good.
First of. Why do we die like flies? It is okay that the killer can mori like that but to make it impossible to loop or distract him really wont help. It would have been better that we still can heal us and do not start on second hook stage.
Next is that we can not take any perks or items with. Sure the killer can not do that as well, but it would make the game much more fun.
You can add for example a special place, where the killer can hook the tiny survivors. Like a table with for hooks in the middle of the map. Where the tiny survivors can climb up to over a ramp or so. And also some small holes in walls where you as survivor maybe can run through.
It is just not good again and the killer again is in an extrem advantage. Since he just need to walk up the gens and will find a tiny survivor to just down him and stomp him to death.
Again could have A LOT potential yet how it is done is just not good and more a pain for the survivors.
I'd actually say the opposite. This event highlights what top tier survivors can do.
Survivors only have to finish 3 gens, and you can't vault things and you die instantly. So all you have to do is predrop every pallet, and its an oni which means they basically have 0 power (you can earn it but in this event its really hard to use because you get weird visual glitches).
So, all a survivor has to do is shift + w to a corner of the map, predrop a god pallet or 2, and the other 3 survivors will finish 3 gens right around the time the survivor you are chasing dies.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691418#Comment_3691418
I like the idea. The only rough part is that then we'd have to give ALL hex perks different token levels of strength which sounds like a lot of work and kind of a mess since some of their effects are easier or harder to have multiple levels of strength for.
Not too bad tbh, there hardest one is probably third seal (which realistically should be worked and buffed) and maybe devour. For devour i would simply make it so every cleanse removes 2 tokens.
For third seal i'd make it do different effects for each totem like:
5 totems: Hindered + Oblivious + Mangled + Hemorrhage + Blindness
4 totems: Oblivious + Mangled + Hemorrhage + blindness
3 totems: Manged + Hemorrhage + blindness
2 totems: Hemorrhage + Blindness
1 totem: Blindness
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@Blueberry said:
As everyone knows hexes are rarely ever used with only a few being considered actually "good ish", and even those are very rarely seen. Hexes are "supposed" to be high risk/high reward but the vast majority of them are high risk/mediocre reward.
This gets me to the fundamental problem with hexes, it's their placements and how easy they are to find. For how easy it is to lose hexes in the first 30 seconds of game, which does happen frequently, their effects need to be immediate and game swinging.
Why do they still spawn next to gens?
Why do they still spawn on top of hills and in the middle of a field?
Hexes should be placed in a way that you aren't just running into them on your way to a gen, you should have to actually look for them. This is obviously easier said than done.
I think that to help this be a little easier we should tackle it from an extra angle.
Make all hex totems appear dull to survivors. This gives the hexes a little extra value as the survivors don't know which are the hexes and could be wasting time cleansing dull ones and secondly has the added benefit of hiding them a little better since you won't see the glow and you won't hear the crackling. The killer will still be able to see which ones are hexes from their perspective though.
We should want hexes to be in the meta as it gives secondary objectives and makes the game more fun in turn.
TLDR: Better totem locations, all totems appear as dulls to survivors, and hexes in general should be quite stronger than they currently are for how high risk they are. Hexes being in the meta are good for the games health.
EDIT: Another idea is to have the hexes active but not lit on any hex totem until the first survivor's down.
Personally i think they should make hexes work off of tokens. So, when a match starts, if a hex is in play ALL totems become hex totems, and then each hex's power is equal to the number of totems remaining. Similar to Thrill of the hunt for example.
Then i would rework "undying" to make the hex literally "undying" I.E. the hex always stays active as if 1 totem was remaining even if there are no totems remaining.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690707#Comment_3690707
a common sentiment that has been around in the game for a long time is that survivor need secondary objectives. Boon are secondary objective for survivor. they give the survivor another objective to do but nobody is bothering to do said secondary objective right now.
all the survivor perk benefit the entire team indirectly. take lithe for example. a survivor pressing lithe and running forward is going extend their chase by some seconds. every second that they extend with the chase is more time given for the team to do gens. Decisive strike when it triggers does benefit one person but the effect that it has is that it extends chase time of that one person giving more time to do gens. the vast majority of perks directly or indirectly benefit the team. Boons are no different in that regard. they cost perk slots just as much as any other individual perk to bring value to the team.
Boons create a secondary objective for the killer though. If they are too strong, the reality is, that the value survivors gain from them is more than the value it takes for them to place the boon and that's not even factoring in the time the killer spends getting rid of it.
You have to know where the boon is, spend time walking over to it, then "fiddle" around because the prompt is so finnicky you end up fiddling with it for 2-3 seconds before you get it to come up, then you need to stomp it which takes 1 second.
In total, even if you knew exactly where the boon is, you are probably spending at least 15-20 seconds removing the boon, but now factor in that survivor time is multiplied by 4 and you see the problem.
I would say boons need a complete rework:
- Make boons map wide (yes map wide)
- Killer now sees the aura of boons when within 24 meters of them (similar to noed).
- Killer now gets a notification showing WHAT boon the survivors have put up (just like hexes for survivors)
- Boons now have 5 tokens on them, you spend 1 token to bless a totem
- Blessing over a hex totem spends 2 tokens.
- Blessing a hex now takes the same amount of time as normally cleansing a hex
- When the killer breaks a boon it breaks the totem (creates synergy with pentimento)
- Survivors can "build" and bless a totem that is broken by spending 2x the time. (but still 1 token)
- Fix the prompt/hitbox of it so the killer can just be roughly close to it and you "lock onto" the totem like how the current "pallet vacuum" works (yes i know current pallets are nothing like old pallet vacuum, but they do a little bit, you know what i mean)
With all of that, boons would now be in a much better state to be strong. The amount of time it takes the killer to remove the boon is roughly equal to the amount of time it takes the survivor to do it (because they generally know where it is) Boons aren't effectively permanent (survivors can't just have them up all the time and keep setting them up). Killers can now break the totem completely which forces the survivor to spend more time to redo the blessing if they can't find another totem or if its in a spot far away from gens for example. And it creates synergy with pentimento. Boons are now map wide so you don't have to worry about radius.
Also yes, this means that technically, a survivor can avoid spending 2 tokens blessing over a a hex by breaking the hex and then building a boon, but that is intentional, because they can take 15 seconds to cleanse the hex and bless the totem for 2 tokens, or they can spend 1 token, but spend 45 seconds doing that, during which the killer knows they just cleansed a hex there and didn't put a boon up, making it quite risky.
Now they can go and buff the various strengths of the boons (not COH though) and they will be in a much better state for both sides i think.
The problem right now is boons should work like hexes. High risk, high reward. You spend a lot of time getting them setup (that is the risk) but they are strong, but if the killer keeps breaking them, you lose your perk forever. But right now they are like the opposite of hexes. They are perks that you have to setup, but can do so an infinite number of times, and thus they are weak.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691070#Comment_3691070
3% haste for 5 seconds is almost meaningless. MFT was complained about because it was permanent. And nobody is gonna stack double haste again because GC/ SP. I like the concept but you won’t see it, probably at all besides the first week. But I really love the idea of her getting excited and filled with bloodlust when hitting a survivor. It’s very awesome and thematic.
Its also more meaningless when you realize 2 things:
- Huntress is slowed down a bit anyway after throwing a hatched, so 5 seconds is hardly any time to gain any real distance or be used in a chase
- The clown one that lowers the survivor movement speed more with pink bottles is more efficient than the haste on clown.
Slowing a survivor down by 4% more makes the hinder 19% instead of 15% and the 3% extra haste makes your haste 13% instead of 10%. When you do the math on that, the
- Hinder addon makes survivor move 0.16 m/s slower
- Haste addon makes the clown move 0.138 m/s faster
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@sonata93 said:
but what about blinding with pallet stuns? If you’re being tunnelled, I find this a useful way to briefly confuse the killer at pallets to buy myself more time… plus, combined with other perks (Lucky Break, for example) it gives you ample opportunity to lose a killer mid-chase. Which is of course very helpful if you’re being tunnelled.
For the 4th time, please read the post. There is a difference between "using a flashlight" and "getting a flashlight save"
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690766#Comment_3690766
I wouldn't mind if they did this only problem I would be worried about is is if the code would allow it, because we dont want survivors blinding the killer to get away while getting tunneled then they lose the perk.
There's literally a score event for saving someone. Simply tie it to the same mechanism.
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@brokedownpalace said:
What if you fail to get the save? Should accidentally tapping the flashlight on for 1 second disable DS? What if you save with a pallet? Should dropping pallets be a conspicuous action?
You need to read what i wrote multiple times in this thread. Using the flashlight =/= getting a flashlight save. I am stating that if you flashlight save someone, you are not being tunneled literally because someone else was being picked up from the ground.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Okay seriously, how are you meant to counter it? You can’t face away, or even face a wall because the speed boost and blast angle still allows for saves
You can’t realistically equip lightborn every game just in case they bring 1 perk
Flashbang by itself is fine, it allows for skilful saves if you’re close enough and have the right timing, or a free blind at pallets every now and then. The problem is Background Player, it makes the perk incredibly frustrating, especially in the hands of a coordinated SWF
Background player needs nerfing
Its not a problem with flashbang or background player. There is a bug right now where picking up a survivor removes all collision. So a survivor can just walk inside of the killer and drop a flashbang. This was not the case in the patch prior to the unknown. It also has other implications, for example on some areas like say, the game. You could position yourself such that when you pick the survivor up, you also block another survivor from pallet saving on 1 side of the pallet, forcing them to go around. But now the survivor can just drop the pallet while inside the killer.
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@Ranch_Jello said:
Be honest, how many of you turned off the red portraits because it looked weird having the survivors or killers portraits that released after the change never having that background. What if they could add them as a reward for p100. Its not as complicated as a skin and it wouldn't cause as much "Fomo" as they would put it.
To those who want to gatekeep it because you earned it as legacy. Don't you think the hours you put in for something no one else but you can see be somewhat equivalent to the person who gets a character to p100. Be honest with yourself, its no legacy skin.
I also turned it off, mostly because of what you said, i can't earn them on killers released after that point, so it looks weird.
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Just because the game is asymmetrical does not mean it is impossible for it to be balanced.
Also, why do i find that people who say: "the game can't be balanced" or "its an asymmetrical game" or "won't someone think of the average player!" always happen to be survivor mains? Would you feel the same if killer was the role that dominated at a high level?
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@Huge_Bush said:
Killer could still be tunneling you when you try to flashlight save. Perhaps you made it to a pallet and then blinded them? DS shouldn’t deactivate in that situation.
Thats not the same as a save. That is using a flashlight. I'm saying, i pick up a survivor, and you flashlight save and i drop them, you should now lose all anti-tunnel perks because you LITERALLY are not being tunneled by nature of me picking up a different survivor.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
What if you're trying to be healed on death hook but you're attacked by a tunneling zombie?
That's not the same as a save. I think if you want to keep things like flashlighting the killer as a diversion technique, or a way to lose them in chase that is fine. But if you successfully do a save, you aren't being tunneled.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689911#Comment_3689911
I was reffering to answer that to counter noed is to clense all dull totems, and my respond can be paraphrased to: its not as simple as just clensing dull totems. There is also pendimento that makes this simple activity another mindgame - should we clense all totems? When should we clense all totems? Did my teammates clensed some totems?
Right, there are counters to counters. That's how games work. There's also a counter to pentimento, you could bring maps, you could bring detectives hunch, or counterforce to very quickly cleanse them.
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@supersonic853 said:
Ive been getting these teams trying to exploit this the past few days. I go to pick up looking at a wall. And a flashbangs dropped at my feet blinding me anyway. So i get another down. I look around. Don't see anyone. Go to pick up. Dude with better sprint burst comes running in and drive-bys me. Theres not much i can do to avoid it since it removes the counterplay of flashlight saves (looking at walls). Most of these games though the people are overly altruistic and i can get them eventually. Just sucks some of the saves are unavoidable now.
Its a bug right now where when a killer picks up a survivor, they lose collision. It also affects pallet saves. There are many situations where you can pick up a survivor under a pallet and you position yourself in a way where you body block the pallet save so they have to go around. But now you can just walk right through for some reason.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
Look, it’s no secret that I’m a “Killer main”. I play a lot of Survivor too, sometimes more than Killer. But my heart is with the Killer role and I truly believe the Killer should be dangerous enough to make this game as thrilling as possible.
However… I do not agree with this feeling of shame when the Survivors outplay you. Some Survivors WILL be better than you, and that’s completely okay! It’s okay for a Survivor to be the teacher role and for the Killer to be the student role learning things from the Survivor. Some of my best most fun games have been because of Survivors who can loop me the whole game.
Sure, I love my meme games. But I also love it when the Survivors show me my weaknesses and give me practice to improve my gameplay. It’s not personal in a bad way, it’s personal in a good way. I love learning and it’s fun to learn new tactics when you’re up against Survivors that are better than you. Good Survivors realize this and often times are game to help you hone your skills.
Idk, I get that it can be frustrating sometimes when you feel like you can't do anything. I talk about Survivor entitlement here and there but Killer entitlement is also 100% real. Honestly it’s not Survivor or Killer, but more just player entitlement. Survivors are just trying to have fun like everyone else. It’s okay not get any kills in some games. It really is! There’s still a lot of fun that happens.The problem isn't survivors being better than you. The game is designed in such a way that if the survivor doesn't make mistakes the killer can never catch them. The killer can try to force the survivor to make a mistake, but if survivors don't they will never be caught.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689901#Comment_3689901
Problem with cleaning dull totems is pendimento
Ok so now its 2 perks combined that are a problem? That's called a synergy.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687523#Comment_3687523
How does DS know you are intentionally blocking vs the killer deliberately chasing you, or like faking/mindgaming at a loop or something?
It doesn't unfortunately. That is why my suggestion in a different thread was that they remove the basekit BT/endurance, and simply give the survivor 0 hitbox and collision. So you can just swing right through them.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687290#Comment_3687290
They (BHVR) don't think of this as the big nerf that everyone is talking about. It's listed as a minor change.
Aside from that I remember back in the day a dbd dev that i don't want to name because its nothing that should be taken personally and people often do and have posted mean things about this dev in the past. Said that freddy is the most skillful killer because the top 1% of freddy players outperformed the top 1% of nurse players (im pretty sure this was back when freddy slowdown addons existed) but this was also at a time when it was super easy to cheat infinite BPs
For context. you used to be able to cut your PCs access to the internet and all the game would do is not let you progress past the main menu while the game was open then cheat engine in as many bps as you wanted and connect to the internet again. I never did this hence why I haven't got every killer P3 and legacy Portraits but i know people did.
So in fact the data lied then because the top 1% of freddys could just slow every game to a halt and people didn't want to play it and they just turned their brains to soup against him. The data has lied in the past and as @GeneralV post shows is that its not something that can be taken at fact value today as still.
The people in this post understand the point you are making but still I think you have a distorted view of the average player because you are trusting that data at face value too much.
That same dev also thinks (thought?) that pallet freddy was stronger than trap freddy.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Ugh…
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687229#Comment_3687229
Man you always seem to have the answer to everything ever. Neither side of this disagreement can prove jack. You're just tossing out your thoughts, and wrapping them as facts.
Should we continue? I feel your posts are always trying to just stir a pot into getting a thread closed. Maybe Im wrong, but to recap @ohheyitsbobcat , If you are an average player, you absolutely aren't seeing good blights, you're losing to Pig traps, MASSIVELY btw, all because you have no idea how to deal with them. These are facts. Dispute them with @Reinami please.
Its a bit disingenuous to think i'm trolling, or i'm "trying to get a thread closed"
This is just a civil discussion here, disagreements are allowed to exist.
To address the concern itself:
I mean, the data doesn't lie.
@GentlemanFridge said:
There are already some threads sharing their findings from The Stats, but none that actually had all of them listed, so here goes:
Developer Update | Stats! - BHVR
Developer Update | Stats!
By PeanitsLast Updated: 2:55 pm
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LJJMUEZMMOTV/developer-update-totem-new.png
Since we’ve started regularly sharing stats last year, we’ve received various requests for different kinds of data you would like to see. On top of the usual statistics we share, we’ve selected a few of the most requested topics to share with you today.
Before we dive in, we would like to remind everyone that while data may be fun to talk about, it does not paint a full picture. The numbers we’ll be sharing are very broad, covering millions of matches played all around the world, so the numbers may not reflect your personal experiences. We encourage you to have fun discussing this info, but please try not to draw any conclusions from data alone! It’s important to dig deeper understand the context behind the numbers you see; even we don’t make decisions based on data on its own.
Popular Perks
Starting things off, here’s an update to the 10 most popular Perks for each role! The percentage listed next to each Perk indicates their usage rate- in other words, the likelihood that someone will have it in their loadout. Arrows indicate if the Perk has moved up or down the list since we last shared stats, while a line shows that they remained in the same spot.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WDZWY9ARPAX6/survivor-perks.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3X3G7ALPLKL4/killer-perks.png
Popular Killers
Like Perks, we’ve also tallied up the 10 most popular Killers over the past month. The number below represent the percentage of all matches where that given Killer was played, with the arrows and lines again indicating how they have changed in popularity since we last shared this data.
Beyond the top 10, the pick rates are as follows (in descending popularity). For the sake of simplicity, we have rounded these numbers to the nearest whole percent.
- Doctor: 4%
- Deathslinger: 3%
- Spirit: 3%
- Nemesis: 3%
- Trickster: 3%
- Clown: 3%
- Oni: 3%
- Xenomorph: 3%
- Hillbilly: 2%
- Plague: 2%
- Onryo: 2%
- Executioner: 2%
- Demogorgon: 2%
- Cannibal: 2%
- Cenobite: 2%
- Skull Merchant: 2%
- Pig: 2%
- Dredge: 2%
- Artist: 1%
- Hag: 1%
- Nightmare: 1%
- Singularity: 1%
- Twins: 1%
Deadliest Killers
Who spilled the most blood last month? Many of you wanted to know, so we’ve gathered the data to share with you this time around. The numbers below are the percentage of all Survivors who are killed when facing that Killer. For example, a 50% kill rate would mean they kill two Survivors per match on average. We try to keep Killers near a 60% kill rate on average to keep matches relatively even and support the horror theme of the game, where the Killer is a force to be reckoned with and the survival is not guaranteed.
We’d like to remind you again that this data covers millions of matches across all skill levels. Some Killers may be stronger when mastered, but less powerful in the hands of someone less experienced. (Yes, a good Nurse is much scarier!)
Kill rates do not include matches where a disconnect takes place.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LZ950UTSPJE7/ca-642-dbd-0923-evergreen-deadliest-killers.png
Beyond the top 10, the standing look like this:
- Executioner: 60%
- Hag: 60%
- Artist: 60%
- Xenomorph: 59%
- Blight: 59%
- Wraith: 59%
- Nemesis: 59%
- Legion: 58%
- Good Guy: 58%
- Twins: 58%
- Oni: 58%
- Cannibal: 58%
- Clown: 58%
- Deathslinger: 57%
- Trapper: 57%
- Trickster: 57%
- Demogorgon: 57%
- Singularity: 56%
- Huntress: 56%
- Ghost Face: 56%
- Nurse: 55%
- Hillbilly: 54%
- Doctor: 51%
- Overall Average: 58.50%
Survival Rate in Groups
Last but certainly not least, many of you were curious about a Survivor’s odds of escaping depending on if they’re flying solo or playing with friends. In this case, a higher survival rate would mean that a Survivor is escaping more. We’ve also included the survival rates for high MMR Survivors as well for those who are curious.
One last time, we’d like to remind you that these numbers do not paint a full picture. For instance, a group of friends may be more coordinated, but they might also be more willing to sacrifice themselves in an attempt to save their friends.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NENM9X765MUV/dbd-swf-stats-jan-2024.png
That’s all for this time! We’d like to continue sharing statistics like these with you in the future. If there’s something else that you’re curious about, be sure to let us know!
Until next time…
The Dead by Daylight team
These stats are the "average player experience". So based on this. Do you think that:
- Skull merchant is the most overpowered killer in the game
- Sadako is the second best killer in the game
- Freddy is one of the best
- Pig is one of the best
- Nurse is one of the worst killers in the game
- SWF only escape 3% more often than solo players
Either you think all of those things are true at all levels, or you realize that this is looking at all games played (and thus heavily sampling what we call the "average" player)
Further, looking at that data, blight has a 59% kill rate. So, are we saying that the "average" blight needs a nerf?
There are basically 2 things that can be true and both are mutually exclusive. You either balance the game around top players, or you balance around average players.
If you balance around top players, you basically need to nerf nurse, blight, and then MASSIVELY BUFF every single other killer.
If you balance around average players, why are we nerfing blight?
I think that is the main point i'm making here.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687229#Comment_3687229
As a follow up are you using average to describe the majority of players in the game or average as a skill level because this might be a semantics issue on my end.
Any survivor who doesn't know what a pig trap is or is getting baby Nurses is more a beginner in my book and not even close to average skill.
If you're using average as a description of the overall playerbase then I can actually agree with you to a degree.
I am using average as in the description of the player base. Because any time i say anything about how nurse is the only viable killer at high mmr the response i get back is: "those survivor players are rare, the average player isn't experiencing this".