Reinami
Reinami
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893010#Comment_3893010
do you have a link to any good forum posts that discuss this? I’ve never looked into it in detail
I mean its just math. Basically, the game is not actually designed around a 1v4, in terms of MMR anyway, its actually 4 1v1s. And the devs are balancing the game around killers winning 50% of their matches.
So, if we write a simple python script to simulate game results assuming a 60% kill rate with say, 1,000,000 games? We end up with something like this:
Basically, we are simulating 1 million matches, and rolling the dice for each survivor saying they have a 40% chance of escaping, and a 60% chance of being killed in this script. And doing that 1 million times and printing out the results.
This is what our result will be roughly (obviously slightly different each time but over a million matches its pretty much the same every time):
Killer wins: 474744 [0.474744%]
Survivor wins: 178979 [0.178979%]
Draws: 346277 [0.346277%]
Total Kills: 2400181
Total Escapes: 1599819
Total Possible Kills: 4000000
Kill Rate: 0.60004525So basically, with a 60% kill rate, the killer wins about 47% of the time, survivors as a team win about 18% of the time, and about 35% of the time its a draw.
This initially seems unfair to survivors, but that's again, because you are looking at it from the point of view of a 1v4, when again, for mmr purposes, its actually 4 1v1s. So when you look at a draw, its a "draw" for the team, but the reality is, 2 survivors won, and 2 survivors lost. When you look at it from that perspective, the results show in total_escapes as being a 40% "win rate" for survivors (our 60% kill rate). But, the killer "wins" 47% of the total games.
It is a bit confusing, but basically, a 60% kill rate, means that the killer wins 47% of the time.
Now if you take the same script, and punch in a 50% kill rate, these are the results you get:
Killer wins: 312844 [0.312844%]
Survivor wins: 312156 [0.312156%]
Draws: 375000 [0.375%]
Total Kills: 2000955
Total Escapes: 1999045
Total Possible Kills: 4000000
Kill Rate: 0.50023875As expected you get a roughly 1/3 split between killer win, survivor win, and draw. But you can see that the killer only wins 31% of the time. But, because a draw is still 2 survivors "winning" and 2 survivors "losing" there are significantly more games where a survivor "wins".
Now, keep in mind that this is looking at a simple roll of the dice. I think we can all agree that, statistically speaking, every kill a killer gets, the probability that they get ANOTHER kill increases. For example, if the killer gets a single kill, then it is more likely they will get a second, and if they get a second, its more likely they get a 3rd. What this means is that in reality, what you see is probably lots of matches where 3-4 survivors escape, and lots of matches where 3-4 survivors are killed, and less matches where 2 survivors escape. That isn't really possible to factor in without knowing the data BHVR has, but its likely enough of a factor that it changes the results here a bit as well.
Id also imagine SWF factors into this a bit as well, but again, without data directly from BHVR its hard to tell.
Then of course there is the hatch, which also comes into play here where a survivor escapes even though they still lost.
When you factor these in, it makes sense that you'd want to balance for a 60% kill rate, rather than a 50% kill rate, as the likely leads to matches being more even.
EDIT:
If you actually add a simulation of a 50/50 hatch, and then if the killer closes a 50/50 of which gate they get out of, this actually lowers the kill rate by about 2.5% without changing the wins/losses either.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439831/we-did-a-pretty-good-job-so-far-revived-2
Your friends probably got banned for breaking forum rules. It’s really nothing more than that.
Also, the game is supposed to be killer sided 60/40. If you don’t like it then there are plenty of other games out there to play. Go ahead and try playing killer yourself for a while. Once you start facing good survivors consistently, even if they are solo queue, you’ll find it’s not as easy as you think it is.
60/40 kill rate to escape rate doesn't make it "killer sided" 60/40 balances the game around a 50% win rate due to how the math for it works.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892785#Comment_3892785
I can't remember at this point, can you see the turrets as a Survivor?
And as someone who played Nemesis religiously, his hitbox and Tail are (or were) much better than Tentacle ever was.
Yes, you can see the aura of turrets
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892778#Comment_3892778
If you read my other comment, which I know you did because you responded to it, you'd know that I am ignoring that change because there is no realistic way it goes live.
What will likely go live is a watered-down version of it, in exchange for the other buffs listed.
But again, the point of this is for them to ask for feedback, and we are giving it, and you are saying "well ignore that one because there is no way it happens"
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@GentlemanFridge said:
We don’t know if the killer surrendering counts as a survivor win. The 1-hour timeout applies sacrificed marks to all standing survivors, implying that they lost.
Also, just because the killer can surrender, that doesn’t mean they have to.
The definition of "surrender" implies that it counts as a loss for the killer. If anything it should be changed such that:
- Survivors not touching a gen for 10 minutes results in the killer WINNING the match
- Survivors all leaving the game and only being bots should result in the killer WINNING the match
Everything else is fine.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892768#Comment_3892768
I did play Xeno.
Pretty sure this change gives you more than the Helmet does currently.
Two turret strat requires either communication, which most players do not have, or a LOT of time setting up which means you are probably winning time investment wise.
I literally cannot even with you at this point, usually you are survivor sided in your bias but this is insane.
75% longer to get knocked out of power in exchange it takes 1500% longer before heat starts disappearing and 1250% longer before the heat goes away is not worth it, and does literally the opposite of what they want. Bad survivors who can't chain turrets are still gonna be bad and get hit, but good survivors who can and communicate obliterate this killer who will now effectively have no power.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892727#Comment_3892727
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892721#Comment_3892721
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892729#Comment_3892729
I discounted the fact that it takes 13x longer because I think it is obvious that it will be changed to something more reasonable. I don't generally consider things that I know are irrelevant, for example, the attack sound increases.
They aren't going to keep the 13x increase to cooldown. It will likely end up being 2x or 3x. High enough that turrets have a purpose, low enough that they don't keep him perma locked out.
Thus is literally the point we are saying this. They are asking for feedback and we are giving it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892720#Comment_3892720
"Other than the buffs, everything else is a nerf."
No kidding. Also, there's the massive increase to how much flame is needed to break him out of Runner mode. Pretty sure that gives Xeno a lot more time to destroy turrets
Its not massive, you really should try playing xeno, if you aren't running the flame reduction, or the turret range reduction it is impossible to start getting hit by a turret and hit it before it knocks you out of your power. This effectively makes it so you lose you power guaranteed after the survivor runs to 2 turrets. Which good survivors are always running you near a turret. And keep in mind that when not in the power, xeno HAS NO POWER.
Yes it gives you more time, but it takes FIFTEEN SECONDS before the heat starts disappearing at a rate of 2/s instead of 25/s. That is not a good thing.
Like, they buffed how much heat you need to lose your power from 4 seconds to 7 seconds. This is a buff, but then made it take FIFTEEN TIMES LONGER before that heat starts disappating, and then a 92% longer for that heat to disappear.
So mathed out its a :
- 75% buff to heat needed
- 1500% nerf to how fast before it starts to disappears
- 92% nerf to actually remove it.
That is not a buff.
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@Pulsar said:
????
[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
So, they made his Tail Attack charge longer, which is nice because it was pretty much unreactable.
They reduced his cooldown, which is a buff. They increased his KI range, which is a buff. They made him exit his tunnel faster, which is a buff. They made it more difficult to burn him, which is a buff. They made it take longer for heat to dissipate, which is a nerf.
I'm no Xeno expert, but it seems like you just focused entirely on the fact that he got nerfed twice and ignored all the other buffs
The flamethrower changes.
A turret generates 25 heat per second. Taking FIFTEEN SECONDS to now remove that heat instead of 1 second, and then making it go from reducing it to 2 CHARGES PER SECOND from TWENTY FIVE PER SECOND. All for the sake of, now 1 turret won't knock you out of your power and it takes 2. Is a massive massive nerf.
This means that when a turret hits you for 1 second, you can't get hit by flame turrets at all for 15 seconds, and then it takes another 12.5 seconds to remove that heat. All for the sake of, now instead of it taking 4 seconds to knock you out, it takes 7 is not worth it. Especially since xeno relies on hitting the turret quickly in order to stop it. And hitting the turret already gives the survivor distance. This effectively means you might as well not even bother with losing heat, and just make it so you have to go to the tunnels after the survivor runs you through 2 turrets every time.
Instead of it being more skill based around where survivors place the turret, and the survivor routing you through a path where the turret knocks you out and you can't easily hit it, its just a mindless "run to 2 turrets and now they are an m1 killer unless they drop chase"
Ironically these changes have the opposite effect they want. It makes xeno more of a noob stomper when survivors don't know how to use turrets properly, but against high level teams that know how to use turrets effectively, xeno is massively nerfed.
To put it bluntly, this is basically the billy overheat heat mechanic all over again.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892745#Comment_3892745
Ohhh...
Yeah that sucks.
Even more ironic is the fact that Xeno is already a rare killer so...
Its even worse than most realize too.
So with the new changes, 1 second of a turret hitting you generates 25 heat, and it takes 15 seconds before that heat starts disappating, and another 12.5 seconds to remove that fully.
So when a turret hits you for 1 second, you need to spend 27.5 seconds removing that heat.
At this point the heat mechanic is pointless and you just HAVE to expect to get knocked out of your power and then forced to go into a tunnel.
The only POTENTIAL saving grace here is that they meant to say "1.5 seconds" instead of "15 seconds" for heat dissipation to start kicking it. Which is certainly BETTER, but going from 25 per second to 2 per second is a massive nerf still. And really it should probably be like 10 per second to start, or that the heat needed to knock out of your power is increased to say 200-250.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892595#Comment_3892595
Which changes exactly nerf him so much? And how?
Genuinely asking, since I don't know a lot about Xeno's power.
Everything related to the flamethrower. They also still didn't revert the tail attack cooldown to pre-nerf levels after fixing the bug on PTB.
The tail is very underwhelming after the nerfs from PTB before xeno was actually released, basically the PTB had a bug where the power had no cooldown penalty, where you didn't slow down at all for missing. They fixed that bug, then like doubled the penalty at the same time, when really all they needed to do was fix the bug. As it stands currently, the penalty for missing a tail attack is around 50% more than what most other killer's penalties are after missing an attack (like, nemesis, demo, pyramid head, dracula, etc)
For the flamethrower stuff, look at what they do.
- It takes 100 "units" of fire currently to be knocked out of your power, now it will take 175, a little less than double.
- Currently after 1 second of not being burning by fire, you lose 25 "units" of heat per second, so generally once you destroy the turret, you are good unless they stack multiple turrets or you quickly are in another turret range. They are changing this to FIFTEEN (15) seconds before it starts to decay.
- They also make it so you are only losing TWO (2) "units" of heat every second from TWENTY FIVE (25)
Massive massive nerfs. Sure, 1 turret probably won't knock you out of your power, but as soon as the survivor goes to a second turret, you probably are gonna get knocked out of your power now, and you are effectively a powerless killer. Keep in mind that CURRENTLY if you aren't running the heat reduction or range reduction addon for turrets (usually you want both), that if you get hit by a turret you WILL get knocked out of it before you can physically hit the turret. And even with those addons you have to be very quick. I believe they generate around 25 charges per second currently and the notes make no mention of changing that.
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@Clevarz said:
I am personally really happy about the new legion changes and can't wait to finally be able to play my favorite killer competently what about you guys?
Overall good,
The deep wounds only really hurts lower skill survivors, where you don't really need any help against them anyway. Against higher level survivors, legion is now more of a threat with the faster fatigue and moving faster. You can now better body block them, cancel power, and potentially get a solid hit similar to wraith.
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@ForumPikmin said:
"I used to pray for time like these"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6WLUFRLVC0NQ/screenshot-2025-03-06-at-10-49-55-e2-80-afam.png
Rest is piss Knock Out, you will NOT be missed
Unfortunately all this will do is evolve the slugging strategy. Many have already evolved it being knockout because knockout only works against solo queue survivors typically, so why waste a perk for dealing with something you already should be winning against?
We'll see what phase 2 does, but i don't hold high hopes as its all just "anti-killer doesn't play the way we want" rather than encouraging them to play they way we want, and we see how well that works for camping and tunneling.
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I'll hold you to that and DM you when it comes out and see.
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@SoGo said:
All of these are great.
Aside from the new Eyrie map (what do you mean "double pallets"), as if we didn't have enough issues with it already.
except for xeno who is completely gutted despite already being one of the lowest pick rate killers with a low winrate.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892587#Comment_3892587
I only used reshade to see in dark maps like borgo, midwich, etc, so gamma will help me on those maps.
So when gamma comes out you will uninstall it and not use it?
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892577#Comment_3892577
I've never seen anything through walls using reshade.
2 things.
- If you think it is not giving you an advantage over people who don't use it, why are you using it?
- You should watch the recentish tru3ta1ent video series where he tries it out. He played for a couple of days experimenting with different settings and he tweaked in a way that literally would just show the red glow through almost any wall.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892567#Comment_3892567
Relax, we will be receiving gamma settings to dbd, so you guys that plays on console can make the game brighter.
Seeing things through walls that normally you cannot =/= the game being a little brighter.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
I hope it is banned, many people really think that reshade is just visual but does not offer a competitive advantage,which is a big lie because there are settings that highlight the killer's Red light well, making it easier to see and respond.
If it didn't offer an advantage, everyone in comp wouldn't be using it.
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@Goblin_BHVR said:
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is something that we're currently discussing with our partners, we should be able to update you shortly - want to confirm that nobody is being banned for using Reshade however
Please consider doing it, it is literally cheating.
People can use reshade to see things like the red glow through walls that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. It gives an unfair advantage over those who do not, or cannot use it (console)
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
I know she is bottom picked killer based on community stats at least, but still… how does someone EVER even play her?
Her power doesn't even work. Her drones are still bugged last time I checked some week ago even months after she was nuked from orbit by devs. Like she is F tier allready and her power doesn't even properly work (her drones sometimes get stuck every few placements and do not rotate).
You don't, they literally intentionally made her bad so you wouldn't play her until they reworked her for the 3rd time.
But don't worry, you won't have to wait a whole year for it, just 11 months.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892236#Comment_3892236
I didn't try the PTB for Xeno, he was okay at launch on live from the killer's side of things as I recall, a lot of people were complaining about the obliteration of survivor counter play due to the tail strike time, and its imaginary status as a ranged attack with the range of a lunge, or there about.
At some point later, as someone else above mentioned it feels like changes were made to the tails interactions with world objects and those changes were very bad. It reduced the angle available to strike while approaching an object to near 0 degrees in a lot of cases. This coupled with the already exaggerated boxes around most low objects was just too much to keep me personally working with the killer. At this point, a quick fix would be making it work like Dracula's pillars and a little longer, so it just ignores the world stuff in its range.
His map wide generator pressure is poor if you can't use the tunnels. Either a general reduction in the time taken to get into and out of them, or an increase in the number of tunnel portals might help.
But I'm not sure any of that would make him fun to play, he has outright obnoxious issues in his counter play and built into his basic design. Being too short to see anything but weeds on swamp maps is one, his hands covering like 33% of your FOV during a turret event is another.
On PTB, I suppose this was all okay, given that you could just spam tail attacks, but once finally balanced all the negative likely pushed people to less annoying to run killers. Seems similar to Chuckie, not sure why that's the MO.
But I was very reluctant to pay for Dracula based on the history.
The xeno tunnel problem is something that happens on all killers with some kind of interactable, so like, pig boxes, onryo tvs, freddy clocks etc.
Basically the map generation will pick and choose killer power interactable spawn locations AFTER it has done everything else. This leads to situations where like, a chest might take up what would otherwise be a fine spot for one of these things.
It also can be manipulated by survivors spawning in more chests using coins that cause the killer things to spawn in really weird places.
They really should make it so the killer interactable locations are picked earlier on in the process so when we have killers like onryo and xeno who are supposed to have theirs spawn near generators, they are able to do that more reliably.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
Killer and survivors enter match without perks, offerings and add-ons, no tools box, medkit, map nothing.
Which side do you think will dominate under a standard match?
Give well structured arguments only
In a Dead by Daylight (DBD) match where both the Killer and Survivors enter without perks, offerings, add-ons, or items, the Killer has a distinct advantage. Here’s a structured breakdown of why:
1. The Killer’s Built-in Strengths
Unlike Survivors, who rely heavily on perks and items for efficiency, the Killer’s core mechanics remain potent even without enhancements. Key advantages include:
Inherent Map Pressure: The Killer always knows where Survivors will be (e.g., generators, hooks, exit gates). Survivors must constantly move and react, while the Killer can dictate the flow of the game.
Guaranteed One-Hit Advantage: While Survivors need two hits to go down, they have no way to heal themselves without a medkit or perks like Self-Care. Once injured, they stay vulnerable.
Hooking Survivors Is Unchanged: Without perks like Decisive Strike or Deliverance, Survivors have no second chances after being hooked. A Killer who gets a down always progresses toward a sacrifice.
No Tool-Assisted Loops: Without Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, or medkits, chases are entirely skill-dependent. The Killer’s speed and mind games become even stronger.
2. Survivor Struggles Without Perks and Items
Survivors rely on their perks and items for resilience. Without them:
No Healing: Without Medkits or perks like Self-Care, a single hit puts a Survivor in a dangerous state indefinitely.
Longer Generator Times: No toolboxes, Prove Thyself, or Resilience means generators take the full 90 seconds per Survivor, allowing the Killer more time to pressure objectives.
No Chase Perks: Perks like Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, and Window-related perks help Survivors extend chases. Without them, most Survivors will go down quickly.
No Hook Second Chances: Perks like Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, or Unbreakable give Survivors counterplay after being hooked. Without them, the Killer has fewer obstacles to sacrificing players.
3. Exceptions & Edge Cases
While the Killer generally dominates in a no-perk, no-item environment, a few scenarios could challenge this assumption:
Map Dependence: Some maps (e.g., The Game, RPD) have strong natural loops. A highly skilled Survivor team could out-loop a basic M1 Killer.
High Coordination: SWF (Survive With Friends) groups can communicate and make strategic plays. Even without perks, a well-coordinated team can extend the match.
Certain Killers Struggle: Killers like The Trapper, The Twins, or The Pig, who rely heavily on their power and add-ons, may struggle more than straightforward Killers like The Wraith or The Hillbilly.
My Conclusion: Killer Dominates all the time.
We had this "experiment" it was called chaos shuffle.
What happened?
Killers hard tunneled because they had no gen defense
Survivors hard gen rushed because the killer had no gen defense
The game is literally balanced around killers bringing 2 gen defense perks, and survivors bringing at least 1 anti-tunnel perk each. When that doesn't happen its a giant ######### show.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892272#Comment_3892272
That's interesting. When Xeno released on console, the tail was buttery-smooth to use. Most survivors didn't respect the range, despite the wonky hitboxes, so it was actually quite easy to get downs. I still play Xeno, but the patch they released a month after the DLC came out on all platforms, the one that universally nerfed the tail, really hurt its ease-of-use.
Xeno was actually a very console-friendly skill shot killer on release. I still think the main issue was people didn't learn how to use the turrets properly, as it had only been a couple of weeks. Now, people don't really have to learn how to use the turrets because the tail is more difficult. Those who do use the turrets properly are a nightmare to play against.
There was some patch as well that made the tail feel less good, but i think that's just been a bug since that patch.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892236#Comment_3892236
Was the bug present on console? I'm a PS5 player, so I remember that when the Xeno came out the tail was much easier to hit, but I think I still got the slower movement when recovering from a tail attack. The difference after the nerf was night and day either way.
I feel like the Xenomorph is in a similar place right now that the Singularity was before his big glow-up. It's hard countered by the survivor items.
I feel like they should either:
A. Do numbers buffs to make the killer's experience less impacted by the turrets, similar to what they did for Singularity, possibly by increasing the stealth aspect of the killer or by tweaking
B. They should restore it to the state it was immediately after release (sans the bugged parts), where the tail is incredibly powerful and survivors need to use the turrets to get it out of Runner Mode or risk going down very quickly.
It was on PTB before xeno was released, i don't think there are PTBs for console.
Basically what happened was that you didn't get slowed down at all when you missed a tail strike. The original numbers were similar to other killers like nemesis where you would have:
- 2 second cooldown on missed tail attack
- moved at 3.68 m/s when you missed a tail attack(20% slower than base)
But because of the bug on PTB xeno didn't get slowed down at all when you missed a tail attack. When they released it from PTB, they fixed the bug (which was good) but then also nerfed the missed attack cooldown significantly, so now its:
- 3 second cooldown on missed tail
- 2 m/s movement speed on missed tail
Basically, they fixed the bug, but because the "tail was too strong" they also nerfed it, but the point of the tail being strong was because it was bugged, not because the original numbers were actually too good. 2 second at 3.68 is super standard these days and is usually what they go for. Vecna works that way, nemesis works that way, houndmaster works that way, pyramid head, etc.
The point of xeno unlike these other killers is that the power SHOULD be strong, because turrets can make you an m1 killer. They should at least buff the numbers back up to standard killer amounts and then see what that does, or massively nerf or even remove the flame turrets and just make the power work all the time with some kind of cooldown instead.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
They changed him after launching and selling him, which was a primary factor in determining the trustworthyness of this company and its products. That was a bad move on their part, doubly bad because the Xeno wasn't really over powered in a game sense. He just won a lot when approaching a pallet from 0 degrees, and that made opponents unhappy.
He suffers from very poor object to hitbox relationship, failing to hit obvious shots that are rejected by invisible walls, edges and so on. His various nerfs reduce incentive to find these edges for players.
His tunnels are a total RNG nightmare. Maybe nice maybe a detriment for him to use.
It was an excellent chapter, fairly designed, badly handled after launch and forgotten by the sellers.
Whats worse is the killer had a bug in the PTB that made the tail way OP, then they fixed the bug, but also nerfed the tail. I really don't understand why they did that. They should have fixed the bug, waited to see how it went, and then if the tail was too strong nerfed it in a later update.
I suspect it wouldn't have been, once they fixed the bug it would have been in a fine state.
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@IamFran said:
I hope you can negotiate it again in the future as happened with the Stranger Things chapter.
And I also hope it will never happen again, take more things into consideration when you negotiate a new license for preventing this.
With stranger things in general i was surprised that they have timed licenses. If i were them i wouldn't want a license if it could go away, and the license would work basically in perpetuity for the life of the game. But idk.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891568#Comment_3891568
considering I’m seeing more people complain about syringes, yeah I would say getting a heal of and having 3 health states is better than 20 seconds of walk hacks
Most people don't realize the power of the key, the other problem is the key requires you to have an iri key and 2 addons to get good usage, whereas the medkit only needs the syringe and a grey medkit, much easier to get.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891481#Comment_3891481
medkit with a syringe is better
medkit with syringe does not extend a chase nearly as a long as 20+ seconds of wallhacks will do.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891412#Comment_3891412
They're not good items, they're bad items with at most two good addons. The only time I see anyone use a key is for hatch challenges, sometimes rarely with Blood Amber to read killer aura which is admittedly quite strong. And I don't even remember the last time I saw someone use a map. The green map is just a terrible version of the iri map, which already isn't a very great item on its own. The only thing either map is useful for is bringing the purple addon that lets teammates also see tracked items, and also bring Detectives Hunch. That's pretty good info for the team, but again super niche.
I made a thread long ago about combining them into one item type, though I doubt that will happen, but that's my main idea. Both the items provide info/aura read, so I figured it could work, would be less clutter in the bloodweb too. If they don't, they had better make them more accessible and useful at lower rarities, perhaps add a brown and yellow version of them, and make the addons way more interesting and useful. The fact that regular Map and Broken Key start at green rarity despite being entirely useless to almost useless on their own is just sad when you could use a brown medkit and get way better value instead.
The key addon with wall hacks on the killer is actually the best item in the game.
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@justadreampallet said:
personally I run I’m all ears, Eruption, surge, and one perk for the killer I’m running. Normally another aura perk for killers like Vecna, Pyramid head, or Freddy. For killers like Myers, Ghostface, and Nemisis I run a chase perk to get the most out of their power.
For survivor I play in a stealth support style cause taking chase would only be a detriment to the entire team cause I suck at it so I run Distortion, Autodidact, Pebble, and the Jeff hook break perk to limit the killer a bit more. However I main Jeff so I don’t have the best stealth anyway but he’s the best survivor so it doesn’t matter.
I have been experimenting lately with slugging as a primary strategy and attempting to evolve it beyond simply "slug everyone" and have come up with this:
- Lethal Pursuer
- Nowhere to hide
- Forced Hesitation
- Infectious fright
Basically, i can immediately get into a chase, if i down the survivor and see someone with infectious, i leave them there and don't go after them. If i see nobody, i just hook them if they are not the obsession (if they are, they are more likely to have DS), otherwise i run to where i know they will be due to the LP then i focus on only hooking the same 1 or 2 people while ignoring the others and slugging them until someone is out of the game. Then from there i just goof around.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889291#Comment_3889291
Also true, but that would also mean that 1 side did not optimize their gameplay. Which would still be a skill issue on that end.
If survivors somehow optimized their games on average to a point where 10 extra seconds on smaller maps allows them to win, because otherwise they would lose more often, then that means killers have not been optimizing their games in the meantime. Arguably because they have been able to rely on something they shouldnt have been able to rely on that consistently.
This change simply means killers have to rethink how to play the game. Find ways to create deadzones early on in generator dense zones, find ways to zone survivors in directions you want them to zone or force them to tank a hit and go where they want for a reduced total chasetime. Hook people strategically rather than just the nearest hook (spending those 5 extra seconds to get them in the center of your gen-dense area can often mean forced hooktrades or even a free hookstate because you can prevent unhooks consistently while keeping an eye on your gens). It's rare that I see those strategies employed these days, and they almost always happen by accident, while back in the day, it was pretty much a guaranteed early kill without needing to tunnel at all since there would always be 1 person on the hook.But that's also precisely the point, both sides have optimized their play, you just don't like how killers have done it because its not "fun"
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888794#Comment_3888794
Lately I've been considering less experienced people, but being someone in the competitive scene i prefer to look at balance from a high skill lens
Great, so again, you need contend with the fact that if you took the best survivor team in the world, and pit them against the best killer player in the world for each killer, and had them play 10 matches, the only one that would come out potentially winning is nurse, and spirit/blight/billy might draw and every other killer would lose.
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@Mr_K said:
EAC is not developed by BHVR, it is it's own company and used in many games. Give an example of an anti-cheat system that stops all cheating? You won't find one.
Now, there are things BHVR should be doing since we were forced onto dedicated servers years ago. Monitoring player positions to catch teleports for one. I feel there are many things they could do server side to at least flag cheaters.
EAC is notorious for just being bad. It doesn't actually work to stop cheaters most of the time, and at best sometimes leads to false positives. Both things you don't want in an anti-cheat system.
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@XtremeDBD said:
Let me go into a little more detail here, does anyone have any hatred for these killer's obviously overtuned and incorrectly nerfed kits? (Billy not included)
Take Nurse for example, making blinks special attacks was a great nerf, but its not enough. Her entire kit is a complete 50/50, where the nurse player tp's feels like a complete gamble for a hit, though majority of times is in her favour since people who are insane and adapt fast to a survivor's "unique pathing" will just double tap them after the first chase usually. She still completely breaks the game in terms of making Survivor basekit features useless, like pallets
One of my friends had recommended that Nurse can't see auras while charging a blink, but even then, shes still really strong on open maps. I've been brainstorming for months on how she could be nerfed after her reigning 8 years of pain and suffering she causes, which had me think about spasmodic breath being basekit with a new effect upon losing blink access and also a shorter add on activationtims. Haste doesn't feel unique in any way, blight can dash way faster and gets 4 chances to attack, maybe when she gets a blink hit or two, she goes to 4.4m/s and gains an ability to walk through structures for a short time. While this ability is active, only a survivor in chase will see the killer's aura as they phase through walls and loops getting forced into a 1 second, killer vault type animation lock. Survivor's would hear a directional lullaby when the invisible Nurse is nearby. This killer needs to be nerfed, but given a unique compensation effect to keep her appealing.
My problems with free teleports every 3-4 seconds for Nurse is that its too much distance, too fast for any reaction time or counterability, and completely breaks the games basekit features
This buff idea is rough, but is kinda what i thought spirit could've been, phasing to set points rather than being allowed to change course just because you heard the survivor you're chasing change direction of looping, kinda like Houndmaster's search command, fast and as far as they want to go. Distance travelled would determine the length of your cooldown. Phase could be ended early if a survivor is heard and you want to chase them instead of traveling far away, but would incur the max cooldown duration
For Blight i already recommended some ideas on how he could be toned down temporarily. Give him less rushes and increase individual token cooldowns, but make his 1st rush infinite until he hits something and his power is usable regardless of token amt, just like Wesker. His turn rate is increased and he can no longer turn while swinging during a lethal rush hit attempt. To compensate, he performs a visually obvious sweeping attack, relieving some platform reliant frustration since both sides will for the most part have an equal chance of hitting a lethal rush attack
Hillbilly i don't have any problems with personally, i feel hes a really balanced killer, and can only be strong if the person playing him is incredible at curving. His rework really made him so much better, so good he needed to be nerfed already. He is strong in terms of what his kit can do on paper, which is for the most part how tierlists are determined, but he feels like the perfect killer atm, the only one worthy of his S Tier title
Another rant, but i want to hear what others think about these killers, tell me your experiences against or as them. Are they boring, lazy killer designs to play as and or against? Should something be done about them?
I think with the removal of hug tech blight is no longer S tier and with the addition of the sound cue with spirit she is also no longer S tier. I don't think Billy has ever been S tier. As a nurse main i think i can speak to her the most.
I can tell you she is far and away the best killer in the game and probably always will be unless she gets a complete rework. However There is a simple thing here that i also ask people in these types of threads, and fundamentally it is an important question that might not seem related to the discussion but i promise it is.
When it comes to balance for DBD, do you balance around AVERAGE skilled players, or HIGH skilled players? I'd also throw in LOW skilled players, but generally i have only ever had 1 person have that take before, usually everyone thinks its average or high skill balancing that matters, but in case you are the rare exception i'll throw it to you as an option.
To preface:
i agree nightlight data is not perfect because the data skews to more experienced players, but in this case i think the data is still relevant. Unfortunately, it is also usually the only recent public data we have.
Now, if you think the game should be balanced around AVERAGE skill players then why do you think nurse is a problem? Looking at the data on nightlight we can see the following in terms of kill rate: Nurse has a kill rate of 58.88% and the killer average is 56.64%. The devs balance around a 60% kill rate. This puts killers on average a bit below in terms of that 60% kill rate, but nurse just slightly below. I'd say anything +/- 5% is probably still within the realm of good for balance discussions. Even if you look at BHVR's published kill rates by killer, nurse is often one of the lowest if not THE lowest in terms of kill rate when looking at average level play, and usually only in the middle or slightly above average when looking at high MMR.
So based on that, nurse is showing as being "fine" if anything maybe she needs a slight buff if you balance around the AVERAGE player.
If you want to balance the game around HIGH SKILL players. Then you need to look at that data, and realize that typically unless nurse is played at the highest HIGHEST level. I'm talking the to 0.1% of nurse players, that nurse is usually only slightly above the average kill rate. And usually behind a ton of other killers. Based on that, at the highest levels of play, she is fine.
But now you need to contend with something:
- If you believe the game should be balanced around AVERAGE skill players, then nurse probably needs buffs to bring her more in line with other killers, as when looking at those stats she is often at the lowest in terms of kill rate.
- If you believe the game should be balanced around the HIGHEST SKILL players, then the nurse is also still probably fine unless we look at literally the top 0.1%, because she's still within that 60% kill rate statistic. BUT, then you contend with the fact that probably 90% of the killers are not viable at that level and need massive buffs, given that comp play has to severely handicap survivors against almost all the killers other than nurse (and still blight and spirit, but i disagree with that given their recent nerfs, comp sometimes takes time to catch up).
So TLDR: Playing against a top level nurse that can destroy teams is extremely rare, about as rare as these mythical "SWF troll squads"
Now, back to the point of your thread, i can't speak for the others very well but i can definitely speak for nurse having mained her for years and years at this point and having thousands of hours just playing her. I think she is in a mostly fine state, albeit being the strongest killer in the game, but only because of the current state of the game.
- Her blink is strong, but still has counterplay around survivors staying in the open.
- She can ignore windows and pallets, but stealthing against her is her main counterplay.
- LoS blockers can be an absolute nightmare for her to deal with when survivors are good at using them.
- At lower level play she seems to still be at least playable, giving players something to strive for.
- She's is the only killer in the game, where it is less about survivors outplaying HER, and more about HER outplaying the survivors, giving the killer ultimate skill expression.
- Every other killer is designed in a way where survivors have to make a mistake for you to do well to win, nurse does not have to rely on survivor mistakes, she just has to play better than them.
- Given her kill rate in low level play vs high level play, i think she is probably the best designed and balanced killer in that regard.
I personally think though, nurse needs a complete and total rework, BUT that rework can only happen if and when they fundamentally change the game in a way that makes it so all the other killers are viable. This isn't a, just buff all the bad killers, because all of them are bad when compared to nurse. There needs to be fundamental basekit changes to killers as a whole, so they can compete at the highest levels of play without being forced to handicap the survivors. If that ever happens, i would happily go for a rework of nurse, but since that will never happen, i think she's fine as is.
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@shadow_V said:
Ok this community really needs to stop happily kicking their feet like nothing is wrong yall I'm telling you it's not as "survivor sided" as you think.. killer was wraith he found someone right off the bat (it was a Kate that info is going to be important) and I got on a gen as soon as he started chasing (like I'm supposed to) he downed her. Hooked her then blew up my gen with scourge hook as I keep working they get her off then he found someone else and blew up my gen again he used 3 scourge hooks on my gen by the time he got his fourth hook I was still working on my gen and Kate which was the fourth hook killed herself cuz she knew it was a lost cause
Skip to the next match it was against wesker and I happened to get in with that same Kate.. she was the first one to the hooked. After she got hooked he started chasing someone else and us both standing were on gens that were almost finished so the other survivor finished theirs after it popped he went to it to chase that survivor and Kate killed herself so I said to myself we're not making it so I killed myself
Skip to the next match it's a huntress who isn't throwing hatchets (I'm trying to get an adept so yay for me) we make it to the end but she quits so it doesn't give me the adept so I try again
The next match this time it's a chucky at first it's going pretty smooth 2 gens down by the time he gets one hook and that one hook happened to chain friends til the end and it went down hill from there
I'm telling yall they are catering to the killer side
Also just had a trapper slug 3 of us at 2 gens and moried me without me being hooked... like did they not realize people would still be toxic to get as many points as they can. adding the EGC mori just encouraged toxicity even more
About the 6th or 8th match got hooked at 4 gens.. went with my rescuer to go heal but killer followed us hit me again hooked me. after i got unhooked I ran off to go do a gen. killer is chasing someone else but that same someone that only been hooked once ran him over to me therefore killer killed me (ik it wasn't my teammates fault but I was still very annoyed)
This is more of a rent then a point and srry about that I just need to get my frustration out as a solo survivor it's getting increasingly hard and sometimes unfair especially when you have people who say tunneling and slugging is fine because it's apart of the game when it's a problem no one has fun in that situation except the killer I can only hope the changes they announced will help at least a little bit
So lets look at the 3 scourge hooks you mentioned in the first match. I'm assuming you are talking about pain resonance. Lets talk about it.
Pain resonance reduces the gen with the most progress by 20%. Gens take 90 seconds. So this would knock off 18 seconds on a gen.
Some people don't realize this, but it takes the killer about 15 seconds or so to hook a survivor after they down them:
- 2.7 second wipe animation
- 3 second pickup animation
- ~7-8 seconds to walk to a hook
- 1.5 second hook animation
2.7 + 3 + 7.5 + 1.5 = 14.7 seconds. Lets say around 15 seconds.
So how long were those chases lasting? Is the real question here. Because it sounds like they were lasting maybe 5 seconds? Which at that point, i think your team has bigger problems then knocking 18 seconds off a gen. Also, given the fact that it hit your gen 3 times, that tells me that the rest of your team was not doing gens. I don't know what they were doing, sure 1 was being chased, maybe going for the save and what not. But all 3 of them doing no gens for 3 chases and hooks?
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@Grigerbest said:
If you're slugging all 4 survivors (for no reason) - at the end of the match, you will have: minus 500 000 bp, minus grades, minus player level, minus 100 of all addons and offerings, minus archive progress, and random guy from your friendlist will be kidnapped and put in someone's basement.
If this^ in tact - watch how killers reconsider their behavior in game, first day.
This has nothing to do with the thread. I was simply stating an interesting idea for a game mode.
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@BritneyMitch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886056#Comment_3886056
It absolutely has to do with ping, but name one other game where both sides can have 50 ping and you still get hit by stuff that isnt on your screen.
Literally any multiplayer game ever?
Even if both players have 50 ping, ping is the amount of time it takes to do a round trip to the server.
So, lets say you have the survivor and the killer at 50 ping.
- Survivor vaults a window on their screen, it takes 25 ms for that to reach the server.
- Server then does whatever validation or logic it needs to do for vaulting. Nobody knows how long that is exactly, but DBD servers i think have a tick rate of 30. Meaning it updates 30 times per second. Lets say a vault takes "1 tick" so thats 1/30th of a second which is 33.33 (lets just say 34) ms to do that
- Then the server sends what it needs back to the client to say "hey yep you are vaulting go for it" that takes 25 ms.
- Server also probably sends the same thing in the next tick, back to the killer player, so thats probably around 34 + 25 ms there before the killer sees it.
All in all, this took a total of
25 + 34 + 25 = 84 ms for the survivor to start vaulting
25 + 34 + 34 +25 = 118 ms for the killer to even see the survivor start vaulting.
Thats a pretty significant amount of time even at 50 ping. And most people aren't rolling around with 50 ping.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Did you like it better?
Was it just a free-for-all? Any skill levels just thrown together based on region?
I liked it a lot better. Matches were a lot more chill most of the time so you could goof around and didn't have to play like its a tournament every game.
Yeah you had your occasional crazy match, but those were pretty rare like the "those SWF sweat teams are rare" people like to say. However now its "those SWF sweat teams almost every single match" and the other ones are rare for me.
On survivor side, usually i had people who actually knew what they were doing more often, with the exception of rank reset. But, since things were tied to grade, you could still pip and not escape pretty easily if you just played out the matches and played well yourself.
It was much better when wins and losses were tied to pips instead of kills/escapes because even if you got 0 kills, or died as a survivor you could still pip and i always saw that as a "win"
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887426#Comment_3887426
It's not just "do I heal after unhook or not" - it's everything surrounding it that gets removed as well.
That player can't take agency in deciding which gens to do, can't lure the killer anywhere and bodyblocking would be such a niche occurence (cause when do you body block? Because you're in one place with a surv who remained uninjured after an unhook) it would hardly occur anymore."Deciding which gens to do" is a skill that should be acquired once you've realised what maps look like. That takes what? 50 hours if you don't go to external sources? That's on the same skill level as realising if you want to stealth you shouldn't fast vault or that dropping from a great height staggers and there are only few places where you can actually drop in chase and get an advantage. You also don't need the "skill" to save a teamie at the right time - if you feel like you can get an unhook for free mid chase that'd be a brilliant idea; the sooner they're off that hook the sooner they can get back to the gen. Dodging hits is a last resort and between ping (idk about you but I regularly get 100+ ping killers) and how wonky the game has been lately it's more luck than skill. - I give you the countering different killers though.
And yes, I am perfectly well aware chase is the fun part — but you have about 135 seconds of that max per match. For those 135 seconds you spend a lot more time doing essentially nothing. If I want to just chase I go to a dbd server and go "come shack 1v1" then I have chase. Pubs are only more fun than just shack 1v1 because there's interaction between survs and surv actions have to kinda complement each other. In your version the only time a surv should interact, or even see, another surv is during the unhook animation.
That's what being on the hook by definition does though.
The entire game is designed around: survivors do thing, killer stops them from doing thing by taking away the survivor agency.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887453#Comment_3887453
You only have to record a brief video displaying something that goes against their TOS. Nothing more. Send it in. Ingame report. Done.
I do agree though - The ingame report system needs to have more of an impact. To be updated with better features. It'll help the community do their part to taking action when something needs it.
Also - sidenote :p THUMBS UP should do something. lol. At this point I will even take 5 bloodpoints for a thumbs up LOL
But the point is, nowhere in the game does it actually say this is necessary.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887057#Comment_3887057
The in-game system will confirm the match took place
So this basically just confirms that the in-game report system actually does nothing? You are saying the in-game system confirms the match took place, do you not have a record of match history at all? Like, is there no table that stores match history like, what map was played, and what perks were used and that sort of thing?
How else are you all getting data around kill rates, and perk usage rates and everything? There must be some kind of record of those types of things.
I would suggest that you all need to make some kind of in-game announcement explaining that the in-game report system, without submitting a ticket with video evidence does nothing ,because up until this point ,a lot of us believed that at least reporting people did something.
At this point i guess i have to record every single match i play.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887028#Comment_3887028
I find it ironic that the guy that claims survivors refuse to improve is willing to dismiss Hens because 'he's too skilled'.
who exactly is dismissing Hens here? He is showing how awful MMR system is and how exactly am i dismissing that?
Wrong.
Because remember, Hens didn't only go well over the balancing benchmark by getting an excessively high killrate/winrate, he also didn't use any killer powers, which are two colossal steps you don't have to match him on.
V1rtual, a player for team Oracle, managed to get ~30 winstreak by playing M1 only perkless Trapper. Trapper gigabroken confirmed? Because that's what you are making it literally sound like.
These counters being 'genrush' (but not actually genrush because that's unfair to killer), 'swiffer' (But not actually swiffer because that's unfair to killer) and 'loop killer for 5 gens'.
tunneling counters:
- anti-tunneling perks;
- chase skills;
- teammates taking hits for you;
- greeding survivor potentially about to be target for tunneling on hook;
- stealthing as a survivor on death hook and avoiding unsafe unhooks yourself
slugging counters:
- anti-slugging perks
- avoiding grouping up as slugs and trying to spread as much as possible
camping counters:
- pressuring gens;
- trading hooks;
- anti-camping perks;
- taking hits in endgame.
But "there is no counter to those!!!".
Again, this 'top tier' level you're talking about doesn't net you a balanced experience, it nets you a 90% winrate with an arm tied behind your back. If you equate that with 'what is needed to win against pub opponents', then that speaks volumes about what your balancing benchmark is.
if League of Legends challenger player plays D-tier champ in plat-emerald ranked matches, gets counterpicked every single match and still has 90% winrate, what does it mean? That champ is broken? League of Legends is unbalanced? Because you'd quite likely understand the thing that way and that speaks enough about your balancing benchmark and how you are paying 0 attention to matchmaking quality.
You were accusing others of refusing to improve, but you balk at the idea of having to play without these crutches because of a dogmatic belief that killer is unplayable without tunnelling/camping/slugging, to the point where you won't even try. And the moment someone sets before you the possibility that -you- may need to improve for once, it's anchors out.
i am the one not calling survivors unskilled when they stealth.
I am the one not calling survivors unskilled when they split on gens early.
You are the one calling killers unskilled when they camp a hook that is being swarmed by other teammates.
You are the one considering killers unskilled when they slug in order to avoid a flashbang/flashlight/pallet save in the open.
You are the one considering killers unskilled when they win first chase very fast and then decide to tunnel that survivor out.
But always, and always, when survivors fail to play the way they should, problem is in...game balance?
Let's put that "calling about improving" ball down, because in my average match i still manage to have decent winrate without tunneling and camping and only slug while in power to chain hits with Oni.Should other people follow my example? Why should they? If your opponent plays optimally, why shouldn't you?
So at this moment, dropping a crutches + skill issue tag on using strats given to you in the game at the times and places where it's beneficial is not unskilled, it's smart.
Would love to see the matches for that win streak. Because there are far more factors in play. Perhaps this person never plays trapper, perhaps they played on a new account. Maybe they tanked their MMR on trapper before the challenge. So without seeing the actual footage to see what caliber of survivors they were going against, saying "30 win streak" is meaningless.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887165#Comment_3887165
Respectfully: No on all accounts.
What you book as improvements for unskilled survs and a damper on skilled survs just removes nearly all skill expression the survivor role has - the only section where skill expression is marginally there would be chase. That, in turn, means that Qing up as surv essentially means you spend the vast, vast majority of you match in time out of one sort or the other; either your 32 second time out after being unhooked or 90 seconds on a gen. Yes, gens are a form of time out. The game would not change whatsoever if, instead of gens, there were chairs a surv has to sit in for 90 seconds total. Given that the target chase time is 45 secs start to hook iirc and survs are expected to complete at least one gen, you actually spend more time timed out while you're not even on a hook than playing the game (the only "playing the game" that could count as such would be chase at that point).
I mean, if the devs want to go for it; sure. But I'm fairly certain at that point dbd becomes a PVE game….
Removing one tiny thing of "do i heal after i unhook or not" in the effort to make tunneling not a thing, is well worth it. And saying that doing so would "remove nearly all skill expression the survivor role has" is quite frankly a ridiculous statement.
So looping, deciding which gens to do, leading killers to stronger areas in a chase, countering specific killer powers differently, dodging hits, knowing when to save teammates, body blocking. None of those things are any kind of skill expression? You realize that the "fun" part of DBD is the chase right?
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@foolsparadise said:
it's funny how half the people on the forums are claiming these changes will be survivor sided and the other half are saying it'll be killer sided. just shows that many of you actually have no clue what you're talking about, and are once again blowing things out of proportion before anything is actually implemented.
personally I'm just gonna wait and see what happens. either what they're planning works out and people like the update, or it doesn't work out and they have to do something different. at least they're trying, at least they're somewhat listening, and even if that's the bare minimum, it's still a good thing and they should be given a chance to improve things. immediately tweaking over what you're assuming is going to happen is likely to just discourage them from making any major changes out of fear of backlash.
you guys are comically dramatic and it's impossible to take these kind of posts seriously. please stop with the victim mentality guys...this goes for both killer and survivor mains. bhvr is not aiming to cater to one side or the other, they're making changes to hopefully make the game more enjoyable for the playerbase as a whole. to me, this update actually seems pretty balanced in terms of how many changes each side is getting.
like c'mon, do y'all actually think that they're prioritizing one side over the other in a game where they need people to play both sides? you really believe this video game company, with one title they can truly call a major success, is catering to one side over the other? really guys? if you seriously believe that, then you're so entrenched in the stupid tribalism of this community that you've actually lost touch with reality.
i absolutely understand not having any faith in bhvr to implement these changes in a balanced, or even fully functional way, but at least give them a chance before freaking out like this. y'all want the game to change and improve, yet when presented with change you shoot it down and immediately start with this "aghhhh dbd is being destroyed aaahh dbd is dying the devs are garbage!!! the sky is falling!!!! the end times are upon us!!!!!" bullshit. mfs do this every time there's some sort of change to dbd, for once just sit back and observe. they're not just gonna drop these changes out of the blue, there will be testing and a ptb. if it truly ends up being that bad…then we can resume the doomposting.
My main concerns as a killer player are the phase 2 changes. Its a lot of "anti-killer does thing we don't like" and very little "reward the killer for playing the way we want them to play"
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@doobiedo said:
This game is killer sided enough as it is as every non-biased player knows, so why is Bhvr. nerfing survivor even more by forcing solo survivors to spawn together so we can be wiped out by a Billy with lethal at the start of the match. In addition they want to make it impossible to hide at endgame and all, basically just give the killer free kills, and they want to try and punish players who refuse to be forced to stay in every 12 year old killer main's sado fantasy.
I understand that Phase 2 will supposedly add more survivor sided changes, but wouldn't it make more sense to mix it up rather than being like "well we're going to completely destroy gameplay for one side, but its okay we'll make it more even a few months later." Good luck keeping survivors even playing until then.
As a more general question, why is everyone on the forums getting so excited about this? It's like you guys forget this is Bhvr. we're talking about. Bhvr. must have read how so many people were posting about how dbd needs some sort of health initiative, and they decided to just announce one, knowing that no one will pay attention to what's actually in it. They were exactly right, they have been showered with praise by the unwashed masses, and anyone with reservations, even slight ones, is being shouted down.
Everything we know about Bhvr's history, as well as what changes have already been described, shows clearly that this will likely be a disaster. Even if Bhvr. eventually gets the game somewhere closer to right, going by the kinds of changes they've announced so far it's going to be a long time till then. So go right ahead thinking Bhvr. has suddenly figured it all out, I'll just stay cynical so I'm not disappointed once again.
You're gonna need to explain how:
- Letting survivors surrender when the game is over
- Gamma adjustments (both sides)
- Going next being prevented
- Body block prevention of griefers
- Map offerings (both sides)
Are "killer sided"
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885966#Comment_3885966
Wouldn't that just be a free escape at the end?
Ah yes, i forgot to add that, but the mechanic would obviously not work in that case. Similar to AFC when the gens are done.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885966#Comment_3885966
That would make a whole bunch of surv perks (related to healing & hooks & injured states) so niche that it makes no sense to equip them, resulting in even more perks being obsolete. It also reduces surv-interaction and robs the unhooked surv of agency forcing them to twiddle their thumbs and basically go afk for a good chunk of time. Healing asap after unhook isn't even always the right play, thus taking that choice away from survs further reduces their range of plays and choices.
Well, the "its not always the right choice" is precisely the point of the timeout. There are 2 problems this is solving;
- Low level survivor players typically do not make the right decision in regards to "Should they heal or should they not"
- Low level survivor players are often not able to handle being injured for long periods of time.
- Low level survivor players struggle against tunneling often leading to "farming" their teammates
- High level MMR NOT HEALING is actually too strong in a lot of cases.
- High level MMR tunneling/proxy camping is pretty much necessary in order to stand a chance at winning.
So what does such a system do?
- Well, it addresses the healing problem for low level survivors by simply healing them, they don't have to worry about it.
- It addresses the tunneling problem by making it impossible.
- It addresses the problem of tunneling being necessary at the highest MMR levels because the killer can now KNOW that survivor is AT MINIMUM on a timeout for 32 seconds. Which is significant enough to put a dent into survivor gen efficiency that the killer that tunneling is no longer necessary.
Its the type of change that improves the game at all levels of play. It makes low level survivors feel safer and better able to handle tunneling. And it slows the game down at the highest levels in a way that doesn't punish survivors for doing their objective (like they keep doing for killers with the anti-everything basekit stuff) but instead rewards killers for going for hooks.
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@kommandantlocke said:
say your someone whos got all the perks or play enough to get bloodpoints from both sides, it wont work cuz some people wont care about the grades its just for bp really no real downside not to mention losing games normally wont depip you now so easy to get that grade back up its kinda of meh penalty if u really think about it it wont really stop people from getting out of their way to "Go Next" if they really dont like the killer or the match
They also get a DC penalty, which is basically the thing they were trying to avoid by doing this. So now if they do it, they will probably just DC instead since they will get the penalty anyway, and they can leave faster.
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@Gardhome said:
Think about a positive thing. This means no match against Wraith, Huntress or Oni. So be happy its a Blight and not one of this insufferable killers.
This is what people mean when you can't make anyone happy. Here is someone who is complaining about Oni, of all killers.