Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Spooky13 said:
It's no secret that Kaneki is very strong. He has insane mobility and can use his power to cut people off in chases to deny pallets and windows in ways most killers wouldn't dream of. However, this comes with the caveat that means Kaneki feels extremely oppressive against most teams. I'm just here to suggest some ways to tune him down slightly without butchering his power.
I think the thing that makes Kaneki feel so oppressive is his insane map mobility, specifically during his Enraged Mode. While Enraged, Kaneki can cross most maps in the game with a single use of his power. It's extremely common to see Kaneki hook someone across the map, and already be in a chase with someone who was across the map within 15 seconds. I think we should cut down on how often Kaneki has his Enraged mode, especially after hooking someone. My suggested change is:
-When a Survivor is hooked, they lose the Kagune Mark, and The Ghoul loses his Enraged status.
While Kaneki still has good map mobility while he isn't Enraged, he is nowhere near as oppressive in terms of how far he can go and fast he can get there in a single use of his power. If they really wanted to, they could allow him to use 1 set of Enraged leaps after hooking someone, before reverting him back to normal. These changes should also come with a flat 10 second reduction of how long he stays Enraged after the Kagune Mark is removed through other means, such as mending or being downed, giving him around 20~ seconds of Enraged when it goes away.
Another potential change regarding his Enrage Mode could be to make it so he only has access to it within a chase. For example:
-While the Ghoul is within a chase with a Survivor who has the Kagune Mark, it doesn't decay. When the Survivor is no longer in a chase, the Kagune Mark decays rapidly (around 10~ seconds to fully decay and lose Enrage).
Kaneki's Enrage is extremely easy to obtain due to how easy it is to hit with the autoaim (this is another issue with his power) but limiting his access to Enrage to only be when he is in a chase will still allow him to retain the most fun parts of his current kit, while giving the other survivors on the map breathing room. By making it so that the Kagune Mark rapidly decays as long as Kaneki isn't in a chase with whoever has it, it would limit the time he has access to all 3 of his leaps, but still allows him to use his Enraged Mode as it currently is within a chase, allowing Ghoul players to still do the crazy leaps and cut offs in chase as he can currently.
I think Kaneki's chase power should remain as is, as this is where most of the fun playing him comes from due to its high skill ceiling, so I don't think we should change him there. Simply making it so he has more downtime between chases will do wonders to making him less oppressive, as currently, Kaneki is almost always a mapwide threat that makes nowhere safe to an unfun degree.
Bottom line, Kaneki remains Enraged for far too long and obtaining it is far too easy, allowing him to have unprecedented map pressure on most maps and giving most teams little to no breathing room or downtime. By lessening the time he stays Enraged, I hope to make him feel less oppressive to majority of players, while still allowing him to keep the most fun parts of his power as it is currently.
The problem isn't the power, its the fact that the killer can basically camp from the other side of the map. Taking away the mobility just makes it so you actively are encouraged to camp. You get a hook, you get your mobility buff and it encourages you to move way from the hook. Which is what we want.
The solution is to tackle tunneling and camping from a fundamental gameplay perspective, and remove it. Remove the unhealthy play styles, like they are trying to do with slugging. Not just nerf them, not just make them "ineffective" make them IMPOSSIBLE from a gameplay perspective to do. The game would be in a much more fun state for everyone if you had to 12 hook to get 4 kills and the game was balanced around that instead of just killing someone as fast as possible. And not to balance killers around this unhealthy mechanic.
The other thing people need to realize is this killer has been out for a single day. Are you going to tell me that this killer is better than nurse? Or better than blight? I doubt it. People haven't learned to play against it yet, give it some time. Against the higher tier games just a day in i'm already struggling because they are figuring out how to counterplay him. In the average level survivor games they still heal against him constantly, they do the same against legion btw and probably think legion is OP.
If any change should be done, i think the power should not inflict deep wounds. Remove the game delay you get from that and encourage you to stick to a single chase and use the chase power.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E173H18ANKUA/20250403-203532.jpg
A month remaining...
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@AimsKey said:
This is just something needs adjusted else its really strange for survivors. The standing still for 1-2 seconds as he pulls to hit you, its so weird and confusing. It feels terrible to me as a long time player. It needs to become either a single instant hit OR you can still move walking pace as he comes to hit OR you get dragged to the killer. So you dont get that weird confusion, "Why cant i move???" instant feeling.
Also the hits you get, as you go around a wall, but still locked on to. I think you know about that bug or weird behaviour though.
I think they just need to have an animation that shows like, the tentacles grabbing you. There's 4 of them, and it feels like the animation is supposed to have 2 of them holding the survivor in place, while the other 2 do the hitting. But it doesn't look like it during the actual animation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
First question - yes, you will gain MMR for the two Survivors you have sacrificed.
Second question - Yes, there is no difference between killing/sacrificing a Bot and an actual player when it comes to MMR.
I think its more the question around the, all survivors disconnecting one.
Lets say that i slug all 4 survivors, and they all abandon, so they get counted as a loss. But now, the entire game is all bots, so if i leave the game do i also lose? If so i could see this being not so great as it defaltes MMR for everyone in the game Whereas normally MMR is (at least a little bit) zero sum.
Realistically, it should probably count as a win for the killer in that case and not be an "abandon". The other cases all seem to explicitly be about surrendering, which is fine, but the killer ones are a bit more fuzzy.
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@AshFayd said:
I just want them to make him be quiet, don't wanna hear AUGH OEUgh glorp glorp every 5 seconds >.<
Thats the secret, the Rize skin doesn't do that, so half the reason to buy her is so that she doesn't make those noises in the lobby, and she's a lot quieter.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903875#Comment_3903875
why do you think bhvr hasnt released a "area denial" killer since sm bc survivors cant multitaske these things (call it ignorance on their side or whatev) I personnaly find it way to early too decide if hes broken or not its only been one day. I am scared for the fnaf dlc tho since i can garuantee the survivors wil just complain and complain simply because they wil see that killer allot. and since bhvr listens to crying survivors now (example skull merchant) the killer for that dlc might become a chucky 2.0
Its because multitasking is hard and is why killer is so hard to play. Survivors are designed in a way that they need to play as a team in order to multitask, and for some reason everyone likes to look at this game not as a 4v1 but 4 1v1s and don't think about the aspect of survivors working as a team. Part of this is the fault of the devs for designing the game in such a way that survivors can't communicate with each other, but are expected to play like they can.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Personally, I won't single out a survivor until I feel like am in imminent danger of losing the match. And that "feeling" is subjective based on number of gens left, the quality of the survs, the killer I am using, the map, etc.
But I can say I can count on one hand the number of times I've made that call when there were more than 2-3 gens left. Tunneling at four gens seems excessive, but to each their own.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903897#Comment_3903897
Yes, the devs are ultimately to blame, but at this point we have to know they have no intention of really fixing it. At this juncture, whether or not a killer hard tunnels or whether or not a surv player is willing the accept that they might be tunneled in any given match is a player issue.
If a killer player wants to tunnel every match like clockwork, they should just own that winning in and of itself is more important to them than how they win. Saying "well BHVR allows it, so what do you expect me to do?" does not absolve a player of playing like a sociopath all the time.
Not that absolution is necessary, it people want to play like that, it is clearly allowed. But that doesn't make a 10K hour killer who just hard tunneled in match against potatoes any less of a dick. Likewise, if I were to use everything in my power within the boundaries of the law to generally succeed irl, I'd be more financially prosperous but probably wouldn't have any real friends.
We have agency here, we don't have to take the path of least resistance every time.
And thankfully, most don't, as hard tunneling is more of an intermittent issue than a regular thing.
Its not a player issue, it is a dev issue.
If the devs haven't done anything about it, then it sounds like they think that this strategy is fine. So, with all due respect, that makes you a "scrub". And i don't mean that in an insulting sense like "you are bad at the game" its a mindset problem. You have setup a group of made up self-imposed rules that the game doesn't acknowledge or "Score" for or anything like that.
Here is an exerpt from Game Designer David Sirlin's free ebook "Playing To Win"
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
In DBD, you don't get any kind of "extra credit" for winning in one way or the other. As it says, the game simply knows, whether you win, or whether you lose.
We don't look at games like chess, and say "Magnus Carlsen is bad because he exploits how OP the queen is, he should win this other way instead"
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904050#Comment_3904050
Can you help me figuring out why im getting hit through walls?
On anything else im willing to give it a lot of time, but that one feels incredibly cheap to play against.
Its because the animation doesn't line up with the actual attack.
The attack is hitscan, meaning that it travels instantly, but if you have a tiny part of your arm or head or something exposed, it counts as a hit.
They intentionally did this because the killer would be extremely hard to play on console otherwise. And as part of that, the 1st hit is easy, and the 2nd is not, due to the fact that he can't actually down with his power.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904110#Comment_3904110
I main the killer and I am not trying to have something I play turn into a brain off playstyle that BHVR seems to keep coming out with because of people who are just bad at the killer.
This entire thread is biased so saying something is biased is a bit empty of a statement. Theres nothing objective about perspectives.
The OP's suggestions though:
1) No, justifying anything with overpowered killers is not how we should balance the game.
You already get killer instinct telling you enough information. Adding scratch marks would be broken with any form of undetectable. Why do you think they dont want you getting killer instinct if you run undetectable?
2) No. Run the addon or run neversleeps
3) Too many questions on what this means.
4) No.They just did that you want more?
5) No. They just did that you want more x2?Legion is one of the worst killers in the game. If you want all killers brought to that level you want every killer to just be an m1 killer where you predrop a pallet or 2 and they lose 3 gens?
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904066#Comment_3904066
Yeahhhh…. 6 Meters ain't ANYTHING any killer, lmao. They can close that distance ABSURDLY fast. That isn't an upside at all.
actually a pallet break adds a lot more than 6 meters. A pallet is about 3 meters in size, if the survivor is on the other side of the pallet, thats 3 meters. Breaking a pallet takes 2.34 seconds. During that time, a survivor moving at 4 m/s can move 9.36 meters, when adding the 3 meters or so it becomes 12.36. Lets round down and say 12 meters.
The way lunges work in dbd, is that they increase your movement speed to 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds, and then you do your attack. (the speed is slighly slightly less for 4.4 killers but it still rounds up to 6.9). An attack extends out about 1 meter. During the 0.9 second lunge, a survivor can travel 4 m/s x 0.9 = 3.6 meters. The killers attack box extends out 1 meter, so to hit the survivor the killer must be within 4.3 meters of the survivor to hit them.
So, in summary. Breaking a pallet, if the survivor just runs in a straight line to the corner, the killer has to close a gap of 12.36 - 4.3 = 8.06 meters. Doesn't sound like much. But killers gain only 0.6 meters of distance per second of chase. So closing that gap of 8.06 meters is going to take 13.43 seconds.
For context it takes about 30 seconds to cross from one end of a map to the other. So you can cross 1/3 of the map in this time, plenty of time to reach yet another pallet or loop.
13.43 seconds is a long time in dbd. Thats 3 survivors working gens for 13.43 x 3 = 40.3 seconds. That single pallet break, even if the survivor just runs to a corner of the map in a straight line, will cost the killer almost half a gen to land that single hit.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904050#Comment_3904050
No you didn't, because I came from that same era, and I know damn well that you either had to use characters just as busted as him, or peer pressure them into playing someone weaker.
You were probably one of the ones that didn't stick around the arcade very long.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903794#Comment_3903794
People ALWAYS downplay how strong a new killer is. Admitting something is over tuned will cause it to get nerfed faster. People who mostly play one side don't want to see this happen.
Its usually because it takes time for people to learn how to play against a killer and as a killer. Rather than immediately nerfing something a week after i comes out, give it some time to marinate and see how things go. Once people start learning, then changes can be made as needed.
I come from an era of gaming where you just dealt with the fact that magneto was the best character in MvC2 and you figured out how to beat him, rather than calling for nerfs right away.
The killer has not even been out for a day, people are still figuring stuff out. Give it some time.
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@jamally093 said:
So if a single gen goes off it means that Tunneling is valid and I don't mean the strategic hit the person who just got off hook so they need to mend no I mean hard core ignore everyone but him Tunneling. I was facing a doctor a relatively good killer in my eyes a good anti-loop power and some nice locating but boom one gen went off and suddenly I'm being tunneled out. I would get if maybe two or three gens went off at the same time since it sucks but one gen plus dude has Pain Res. I thought tunneling was only for the modifiers to ruin everyone's day?
Here is the question i have for you.
If tunneling is such an effective strategy, that you are unable to counter it, and you lose the game every time, then wouldn't killers be foolish for not employing such a strong strategy?
To flip it on its head. Survivors are now running syringes all the time and still running the same meta perks every game. I don't blame the survivors for doing that, i blame the devs for allowing things like that to exist.
The only person you should be blaming for anything is the devs. Stop blaming players for playing the game just because they do something you don't like, and start blaming the developers for allowing those things to exist.
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@Royval said:
there’s no counterplay on most loops I miss when they made killers that were fun bring me back to 2019.
Because when they make killers that don't have anti-loop but instead are about macro play and map control like sadako, and skull merchant, it gets complained about and they get reworked 18 times until they just become another dash killer as SM is about to become.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903665#Comment_3903665
that wasn’t the point of the post he takes zero skill to get injures it’s what makes dbd boring imo.
I didn't realize that killers won by getting tons of injures on survivors. Here i have been wasting my time downing and hooking them!
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@Royval said:
there’s no counterplay on most loops I miss when they made killers that were fun bring me back to 2019.
His power can't down you. Its not much different than legion.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441512/first-game-as-ghoul
you got a tie just move on to the next game
Again, people keep looking only at the OUTCOME of the match. I got a single hook the entire game, and the only reason it was a draw is because the survivors just threw the game at the end.
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@jajay119 said:
I’ve had three matches today and two of them had some abysmal survivor play. One match a Sable (of course) decided to kill hers self on hook and the other two survivors just threw themselves at the killer. 4 gens undone. My third match none of the other three survivors touched a gen once, apart from me who solo did a gen. We spent 15 minutes just unhooking, healing and running round.
Honestly I get there’s a big uproar bout camping and tunnelling making the game hard to play and unfun right now, lord knows I’ve been a vocal part of those discussions, but this does not help at all. Neither of these killers did C&T by the way. Why even queue up?
Yeah its been pretty bad today. Not a single match has anyone actually played the match properly
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Casual, i already have him at p5 after only a single game.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
It's because per-killer MMR doesn't really have that much sway compared to your main value, I'm pretty sure.
If you have thousands of hours, you'll also get matched against players with thousands of hours.
The question was partially facetious. I know the answer, i just am pointing out how bad it is.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903514#Comment_3903514
They don't disappear 😊 they remain for the entirety of the Rift, so you can complete them at any point within the time frame.
And the old Tomes are still accessible too, for anyone wondering. Though they did say "available for awhile" which alot of folks in the chat seemed to catch, but it's very possible there's no meaning to that comment.
2nd question, which they probably didn't talk about.
Are you forced to automatically "claim" them after completing them? Or can you save them up like we do now where you can get some bonus BPs for when the new content comes out?
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KAJDQY30Z2QC/img-2577.jpeg
Taken directly from the 8.6.0 patch notes, I’m still not taking off Lightborn, I have been told this stupid perk has been fixed 4 separate times in the span of about 5 months, they are still broken, so until I see actual proof they are actually for real working as intended I am not taking off the direct hard counter
And even then I’m probably still not taking Lightborn off anyway because not getting my downs robbed by some jackass with a grenade is quite nice
This change is the more important one for flashbangs:
- Fixed an issue that caused Survivors to clip into Killers during the pickup animation.
The big problem with flashbangs was you could face a wall, but a survivor could walk inside the killer model and drop a flashbang. That no longer should be possible.
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@Nazzzak said:
Agree, I was pretty excited about this too. Being able to complete more than one quest in a game is crazy efficient and much needed. Especially when it comes to escape quests lol I took some screenshots for those who didn't tune in
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/22YMUMXAQKIF/1000009048.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P6PVEDXR60XB/1000009049.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LYZEPCNLR0XD/1000009050.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XHA38Q6JOW09/1000009051.jpg
Dailies having rift fragments is a nice update too
I see the thing there saying "Week 1" what if the next week happens, do those quests disappear? If so i am extremely sad by that, the one thing DBD had going for it in terms of the concept of a "battle pass" was that i wasn't forced to log in every day to complete challenges. I could take a break and not feel like i was missing out.
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@Darkage said:
It is really strange when you see a constructive and well thought out comment with 14 downvotes and 2 upvotes, it's always the same people it seems to happen to as well. With downvotes, you can just click the button and move on, instead of providing a reasonable disagreement and explaining why. I don't think it's healthy.
Precisely why i want to see them go. They are usually used more as a bullying tactic to "disagree" with someone rather than to show that they made a good or a bad post. When someone spends time to provide a well thought out comment people can just "down vote" it without actually engaging in the topic and discussion at hand. Precisely why i just disabled them in my browser so i can't see them. Did the same with reddit to a while back.
The theory behind them is fine, if someone makes a thought out constructive post, you upvote it, showing that it was a good post, whereas if someone is spamming you down vote it to show that it was just spam and note a useful post.
The problem is that people can make a post that says "I like Strawberry ice cream, and here is why" and someone comes in and just says "ew i don't like strawberry icecream" and downvotes it, without actually realizing that the person just made a post about something they like, just because you don't like it doesn't mean their post was bad.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Fair warning - This will be a long post!
Myself, and probably many others on the forums has noticed a lot of talks about MMR and matchmaking in general lately. Why is this the case? and what could be done on BHVR's part to rectify the problems that people are having?
I have a few ideas of my own, but I will write them later in this chapter.
What is MMR?
In an ideal world, it is a hidden rating given to players based on their performance in played matches. It is used to match players with or against other players of a similar rating.
Why is MMR in DBD so problematic?
Well, time to get into the meat and potatoes of things.
MMR in DBD has always been a hot topic, due to the way that the matchmaking algorithm works, with a weighted priority of matchmaking speed over quality*
Matchmaking quality can be determined by two factors, listed below:- Ping - Ideally you would want to match to people on a server that is closest to your own location, to have as little latency as possible. This is to ensure that you get the smoothest and fairest gameplay possible.
- Matching you with players of your own skill level - This is pretty self-explainatory. Some variation is allowed, but the best experience comes from a group of players that are as tightly matched as possible.
Now, here is the problem. Thanks to the matchmaking priority being "finding matches in the shortest possible time", more often than not you end up with a very imbalanced spread of players, ranging from obviously new to the game, and to players who might as well be practicing before a tournament, also with very inconsistent ping. This is why you might end up playing against a turbo-broken Blight player who knows every little detail down to a sub-pixel level, who also plays on high ping compared to you.
Then in the match, the server tries to compensate for the player with high ping, often times ending up with hits that seem impossible on your end. In turn, this leads to frustration for the players on the receiving end.How MMR is calculated:
If you load up the game on a fresh account, your MMR score is set to 650 points (or at the tipping point between the "protected player bracket" and the "below average bracket").
Depending on how well or poorly you play in your first matches, you gain or lose a base value of points based on these parameters:For killers it looks like this:
- 4 kills = +20 MMR points
- 3 kills = +10 MMR
- 2 kills = No change
- 1 kill = -10 MMR
- 0 kills = -20 MMR
For survivors it looks like this
- Escaping a match (Exit gate) = +20 MMR
- Escaping a match (Hatch) = No change
- Getting killed/sacrificed = -20 MMR
Then, match time will also play a role in points gained or lost, with points deduced if the match time is less than 10 minutes long.
MMR Brackets - What are those?
Players are essentially divided into 4 pools (or brackets) depending on their MMR score.
Like mentioned before, you start out with 650 points*, and here is how the individual brackets are divided:- 0-649 points (Bronze-tier, or "protected player bracket") - This is where most beginners will end up when starting out and learning the game. This bracket is omitted from the general matchmaking pool, and players from higher brackets are not matched against these players.
- 650-899 points (Silver-tier, or "below average") - This is the bracket people start out in, and this is where you will find the most casual players, with around 100 hours put into the game. Now if the matchmaking backfills players into a lobby, or prioritizes speed, players in this bracket might be dragged into a lobby of much more experienced players.
- 900-1399 points (Gold-tier or "average") - Most casual players tend to find themselves in this tier, and is often referred to as "solo-queue hell". Players in the upper echelon of this tier will most likely stomp over players in the lower-end of this tier, since speedy matchmaking places people from the entire tier together in a matchmaking pool.
- 1400-2100 points (Iridescent tier or "above average") - Casual players on a winning streak will often times tip over into this tier, and this is where the most extreme player differences takes place. Also because of the matchmaking algorithm prioritizing speed, players in the lower end of this tier will often times be matched against someone who is pushing well over 2000 points. These players are the hardcore elite, with several thousands of hours put into the game.
- Players who are promoted into the next tier has a grace period where they can not be demoted. This is the cause why so many players experience long losing streaks before finding a more balanced match.
A more in-depth description can be found in this video by a youtuber called Choy - Bear in mind that his tier names differ from mine, but the grouping is the same. The video is around 14 minutes long, if you want to watch it from beginning to end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ie4ND-HLp8
How MMR could be better - My take.
- A tighter grouping of players, especially in the two uppermost tiers. Maybe separating the "average tier" into two parts, where one half ranges between 900 and 1149 points, and the next part ranging from 1150 to 1399 points. And in the case of the highest tier, separating it into 3 parts would be the best outcome.
1400-1649 / 1650-1899 / 1900-2100
Doing it like this would prevent some imbalance in the matchmaking, since now, the matchmaking is separated into 7 tiers instead of 4, which is the case for many other games that has rank-based SBMM in place. 7-tiered systems seems to work well for other games, so why not have it in DBD as well?
With Bronze → Silver → Gold → Platinum → Diamond → Master → Grandmaster being the default template, I am sure a more DBD-themed naming scheme could be found. - Match players based on ping. This should definitely be a priority. Allow players to set an "acceptable matchmaking ping". This is an option present in many other games. It might impact queue time, but it is a worthy tradeoff for better quality gameplay.
- Back-filling of lobbies should also prioritize finding players of a similar skill level, instead of drawing from the entire player pool.
- Having a much better focus on match quality over matchmaking speed.
- Using the emblem system to better calculate MMR, like how pips were used for calculating whether or not you ranked up or down with the old system. Player skill is never determined by just a single factor.
- Get rid of the "grace period" when moving between tiers, so that the system could be more dynamic, and lead to less chances of ending up in long frustrating losing streaks.
Final words:
The current MMR system is the root cause of many players' frustration, thanks to the way it works, and more often than not, players find themselves in a very one-sided scenario.
I am hopeful for a re-vamping of the system in the future, but for that to happen, BHVR needs to take action. A survey or listening to player feedback is a good way to start I guess.Something has to be done with MMR, or maybe ranks should return again?
Let me know if you agree or not.
I believe a lot of this information is incorrect. The MMR system does not treat this as a 1v4, it treats the game is 4 1v1s. So if you kill a survivor, they lose rating, and you gain rating based on that kill, its not just a blanket "you get 20 points for a 4k" it all
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592
“Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.”
all you do is complain constantly
I don't complain, i criticize and give feedback.
The difference between criticism and complaining is i point out things that are wrong, and then offer solutions to those things. Complaining doesn't actually offer solutions.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902633#Comment_3902633
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902624#Comment_3902624
Yea thats just not the case, I would need to see some knight gameplay from your guys' perspective to diagnose what the issue here is. You absolutely use your power in chase and loops. If you arent that's great, but you should be trying to get the double hit all the time. If not sandwhiching survivors on loops.
You definietly try to get the double hit as often as possible. You dont just use a minion on someone else and then hope it keeps someone occupied while you m1 chase someone on a loop. They will just reset and youll be stuck waiting on carnifex for every down, which would be silly.
Really need to see your guys' knight gameplay I am intrigued how anyone would ever think you dont use his power as anti-loop or chase.You do realize they changed the knight recently-ish right?
In patch 8.1.0:
- Nerf: added a negative multiplier to the Hunt duration based on proximity to The Knight, reducing the Hunt time by a factor of x3 if The Knight is within 8 metres of his Guard.
This is massive, if you get even slightly close to the guard, its going to disappear in a couple of seconds.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902609#Comment_3902609
Thats just not true about knight, he can do both. Thats part of why hes so powerful is he can sandwich you in loops. As well as get double hits.
Pinheads power on global is not his main either, that is extra. His main power is his chase power, chains.
Which is anti-loop.
Again lot to unpack from your post as there are some true things in there, but there is just massive false things in there as well.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902598#Comment_3902598
Thats just not the case you get plenty of downs with the jailer and two prong attacking someone.
And sentient? Sheesh.
Theres plenty situations where survivors have used up all the resources in large portions of the maps, sometimes there is only a single pallet (yamoaka, coldwinds) and you get guard downs with the assassin, as there is just nowhere for them to go.The knight literally cannot chase with his power since the last round of changes. Maybe you could arguably use the carnifex to break a pallet, but that's about it. The guard will disappear so fast while chasing if you are too close that it won't matter. The point of the knight is to take 2 chases at the same time.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592
Oh cmon survivor mains blaming themselves …
Also Sadako and Knight … Similar? What?
And then further down Pinhead is similar??
And then this????Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors,
What is happening anymore on this forum…..
Way too much to unpack on this postThe point is their powers are not chase powers, they focus more on macro gameplay.
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...
Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.
We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:
- Trapper
- Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
- Hag
- Similar to trapper
- Freddy
- I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
- Pig
- Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
- Legion
- Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
- Twins
- It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
- Pinhead
- Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
- Sadako
- Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
- Knight
- Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
- Skull Merchant
- Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.
Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.
So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.
- Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
- Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
- Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
- Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
- Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
- Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
- Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
- Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
- Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
- Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.
Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.
Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.
- Trapper
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901818#Comment_3901818
I mean, 'clearly' is a stretch. It's a human-esque noise the same pitch in as a David grunt. That is entirely possible.
Its demogorgon, why is a demogorgon making ANY human-esque noises?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I think it’s just a similar sfx. Some of its sounds come from a library so it’s just coincidence, methinks.
Its not similar though, it is clearly the same noise.
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@UknownShredder said:
Ive been watching some content on killers, I wont say all is like this but when i watch it i feel like they are playing against extremely low MMR survivors that get stuck in walls and do not know how to loop properly and generally disoriented. Meanwhile i face coordinated groups with every meta perk in the game 4000 hours on their survivors and they loop flawlessly , You really nee to powder your nose and have coffee to even stand a chance.
So my question is basically, Are they tanking for content or what is going on ? The survivors they face is like when you pick up a new character you never played but yet have 1000+ hours primarily as a killer so its just slaughter.I truly think something is going on with a lot of them.
The only one who seems to consistently go against the kind of survivors that i consistently go against as killer is tru3ta1ent. But when i watch otz, or scott, its clear that they rarely go against the godly survivor teams. Sure they get them from time to time, but not neary as often as i or tru3 do.
I suspect this is some kind of combination of region/time they play and less to do with matchmaking. I doubt they tank their MMR as that would be pretty obvious from looking at their shard count among other things. But i really do think matchmaking has something going on, maybe it has to do with the matchmaking delay option? Or streamer mode? But i don't really know.
I plan on recording all my matches when the ghoul comes out and posting them on youtube to try and see a comparison as time goes on.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901000#Comment_3901000
The fact that this post was downvoted is WILD.
“I’m not going to argue with you, but I will insult you.”
”That isn’t a discussion. That’s not why we’re here.”
5 players on the internet: 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
Yeah the idea of downvotes or upvotes is horrible imo and is why reddit is a cesspool. Force people to actually discuss their POV instead of just clicking a button. I made a browser extension to just hide them at this point so i don't have to deal with it.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901167#Comment_3901167
No because thats simply not the case.
It could be anecodtal, but when i play 10 games in day, probably half of them have someone doing a tome challenge, throwing the game, and/or giving up as soon as possible.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901112#Comment_3901112
Okay better example. Which might help you understand better.
Lets following your logi
Look at the comment I originally responded to for you. How many dislikes how many likes?
So is your statement true or false or is it subjective?Thats too small of a sample size.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901107#Comment_3901107
Thats your subjective world. Not reality
Liking something and the frequency you see it doesnt mean thats true for everyone. Dont know why I have to explain that one.
The fitness crowd for example doesnt "like pizza" for varrying reasons. So theres several hundred million people that go against your theory thereNutritionists, doctors, people with GERD etc…
Again its what i see on these forums, and on reddit, and in the game.
If 1000 people tell me they hate something, and 1 person tells me they like it, i'm going to likely suspect that most people hate it. Especially when that is enough for a statistically relevant sample size.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901097#Comment_3901097
I mean this is possibly the worst way to approach anything
I read somewhere that people dont like Pizza
I read somewhere that people dont like Pinapple
I read somewhere that people dont like PearsMy question is always, what food that starts with P DO people like?
Maybe we could go further than this. And just apply it to all foods and be like "what food DO people even like? I read somewhere that people dont like every specific type of food"I would understand your point, but the difference is i also see people say "i like pizza" with relative frequency. Sure SOME people don't like pizza, but i get the impression that MOST probably do.
In DBDs case though, i very rarely see someone say "i like going against [insert killer]"
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Accidentally posted twice, can't delete, sorry.
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Went into a custom game and recorded this, you can clearly hear the sound effect happening like half the time:
https://youtu.be/YAQ9qbZFgg4 -
@Shroompy said:
I have no idea but Im so glad some one else has said it because I thought I was crazy
I always thought i was crazy too, but then i noticed in a video that someone else had made the same noise, then i started checking other videos of demogorgon and sure enough they all clearly make an injured survivor sound effect.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900675#Comment_3900675
OR
You accept that the design was a failure on multiple levels.
It is not a design conducive to supporting a viable Killer.
It is not a design conducive to promoting fun and engaging Survivor gameplay.
It is not a design conducive to encouraging meaningful interactions between Killers and Survivors.
It sucks that BHVR didn't make a decent trap Killer, but them admitting they messed up and being willing to go back to the drawing board is a good thing. Changing her so that she can be more viable and not be cheeks to go against is 100% undeniably a good thing.
Every single time BHVR creates a macro style killer, survivors complain until it gets reworked or nerfed to uselessness.
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers like blight and billy who have high mobilitiy
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who are anti loop, like dracula, and houndmaster.
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who give information, like doctor, and old freddy.
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who thrive on hit and run, like legion, and wraith.
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who are good at slugging, like singularity.
Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain…. and it goes on.
My question is always, what killers DO YOU FIND FUN TO PLAY AGAINST. Because reading this forums, and reddit, and people's reactions in game, there is no killer that is fun to play against.
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@Bedslamb said:
Please don't say we have to wait till next season , surely ?
I had no idea what this was, and thought there was some kind of Rob Zombie collab, and then i looked into it and realize it was not Rob Zombie.
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@ChrissyG88 said:
So I have a new game mode idea that I would personally find interesting, and would encourage players on both sides to use perks that they wouldn't normally use.
So the idea is that each survivor & killer would have (as an example) 12 perk points to spend on perks before going into each match.
So each perk would be categorised into 5 different levels, with the highest level perks (e.g. Windows of Opportunity) costing 5 points, and the lowest level perks (e.g. No Mither) costing 1 perk point.
And each player wouldn't be limited to just 4 perks. And in many case, they could go into a match with just 3 perks.
If a player chooses all lowest-level perks in the 1-point category, they could in theory go into a match with 12 perks, although all 12 perks would theoretically be terrible.
The biggest con for this idea is that everybody would disagree at the rankings BHVR would categorise the perks at. So my suggestion for this would to initially rank the perks based on usage rate, which would limit the amount of complaints somewhat. And based on analysing the match data, BHVR could amend the categories for some of the perks if they seem too strong/weak for their point category.
For survivors, as I'm writing this, there are currently 149 perks (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Here is how I would spread out the perks ranking system based on usage rate:
5 points - Top 10 perks based on usage rate
4 points - 11-30 ranked perks based on usage rate
3 points - 31-60 ranked perks based on usage rate
2 points - 61-100 ranked perks based on usage rate
1 point - 101-149 ranked perks based on usage rate
I'm not 100% sure how many killer perks there currently are, but a similar spread based on their numbers could be used.
A player could choose three 4-point perks (to make 12 points) and just go into into a match with 3 perks. Or they could have two 5-point perks and a 2-point perk. Or they could go with six 2-point perks or twelve 1-point perks. Or maybe go with one 5-point perk and seven 1-point perks. I think it would be interesting to see the wide variety of choices each player would make going into these matches.
It could be chaotic, it could be killer or survivor sided, I'm not sure. But as it would just be a 2-week game mode, I think it would be really fun and interesting to test this out.
The specific numbers I mentioned above are just a guide, but the idea of the game mode is the main point.
What do you guys think? Is there a blatant flaw with the idea that I've missed, or do you think it would be fun and interesting like I'd think it'd be?This has been suggested before by content creators as a way to balance certain killers and perks. For example by allowing killers like nurse to only have a few points whereas trapper might have a lot, so you can't take that many really good perks as nurse and can take a bunch as trapper.
Here is the problem with such an idea.
BHVR already can't properly balance perks or killers, so why would you add another element to the game that they will probably get wrong? Usage rate are not a good way of doing it either because some regions for example have an entirely different meta where self care is a perk that all 4 survivors take and they all self care in corners of the map.
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@MoZo said:
I’m not seeing anyone say it so I will, Dracula needs some type of changes to tune him down. Hellfire is fine but is insane at zoning, bat form gives him crazy unconditional map mobility and wolf is just busted. Let me get this straight, I can dodge his hellfire and “make distance” only for Dracula to go into wolf form and instantly catch up with free haste and a very forgiving pounce ability? It’s just stupid. There’s a reason why Dracula players use wolf 75% of the match, it gives them free haste while also lowering the already low pounce cooldown. The growls the wolf makes when picking up the scent orbs is the exact same as when he’s charging a pounce so it gives free zoning since survivors preemptively dodge thinking you’re about to pounce and the size of the pounce is the size of a dropped pallet. I’m tired of people saying wolf is a joke when all the draculas I run into always use wolf and even the main Dracula player (im not going to name drop) thinks wolf is his best form. I just find it so dumb how I can successfully dodge one of his abilities only for Dracula to transform into another whole different power 0.5 seconds after and get a hit. What’s the point of dodging when they have another ability in their back pocket? There’s a reason Dracula is a top 5 killer because he has 3 above average abilities that are almost good enough to be their own killer powers.
He has 3 powers, each of which is a worse version of other killers.
Vampire Form Hellfire:
- 3.8 m/s movement speed while holding
- 2 m/s movement speed while firing it
- 3 second slowdown after firing it
- 0.9 second charge time
- 7 second cooldown
- 8 meter range
- cannot go through walls, only over short ones
Compared to say, Pyramid Head:
- 4.4 m/s movement speed while holding
- 3.68 m/s while firing it
- 2.25 second slowdown after firing it
- 1 second charge time
- effectively 0 cooldown
- 8 meter range, than can be increased to 10.5 meters with addons (hint, his only good ones since all of them are terrible)
- Goes through walls
So hellfire vs pyramid head, Pyramid head gets to move faster while holding it, faster while its actually firing, Slowed down for less time after firing, charge time is 0.1 seconds slower, he has basically 0 cooldown, longer range, and it goes through walls. So again, a worse pyramid head power.
Wolf Form:
- On average moves 4.68 m/s instead of 4.6 m/s, with bursts at 4.8 m/s for loops.
- Scent orbs increase movement speed to 4.8 m/s for 2.5 seconds spawning every 6 seconds, so on average, if he perfectly collects them this is the average movement speed
- Killer instinct on picking up orbs
- 1 second charge time for pounce
- 3.91 m/s movement speed while charging
- 20 second cooldown that is reduced by 4 seconds every orb, for an average cooldown of 12 seconds
- 13.34 m/s speed during pounce
- 5 meter range for each pounce
- 3 second slowdown on miss
- 1.15 m/s movement speed on miss (same as regular attack)
- Can't hit multiple Survivors
- Can't cancel the second pounce
- Can't vault things
Lets compare that to a similar killer with 2 "dashes" Wesker:
- 3.68 m/s movement speed while holding
- 14 m/s while dashing
- 2.76 m/s walking BETWEEN dashes (which can do for 2 seconds basekit)
- 1.5 second charge time
- 6 second cooldown per charge for a total of 12 seconds
- 7 meter range on first dash
- 14 meter range on second dash
- 1.5 second cooldown on cancellation
- 1.5 second vault speed
- 3 second cooldown on miss
- 1.15 m/s movement speed on miss (same as regular attack)
- Infects survivor on hit, forcing a map interaction, or they get heavily hindered and exposed
- Killer instinct when survivors cleanse
- Can hit multiple survivors
- Can cancel the second dash
- Can hug/bounce tech
- Can vault windows and pallets
So comparing the 2, wesker gets, slightly slower movement speed while holding, but CAN actually hold it and cancel it unlike the wolf. Faster dash speed, can walk between dashes and reposition, can cancel the second dash, has a longer range on both dashes, can vault pallets and windows, same cooldown on miss, same miss penalty, infects the suvivors on hit, forcing them to waste time cleansing instead of working gens or face a steep penalty, is able to hit multiple survivors, has a hug and bounce tech, can turn the camera to hit the power at weird angles. I'd say again, wesker is much better here.
Then finally the thing everyone complains about, bat form vs spirit:
Bat Form:
- 6.5 m/s movement speed
- 12 m/s teleport to vault locations.
- 32 meter range teleport
- 48 meter lullaby
- 50% louder footstep volume
- Is completely visible to the survivor
- Can be heard by the survivor
- 1.5 second cooldown shifting out of it
- 2 m/s movement speed during that cooldown
- Can't attack directly out of it
Spirit:
- 4.4 m/s movement speed base
- 7.04 m/s movement speed
- 1.5 second charge time
- 5 second duration
- 15 second cooldown
- Phases passively for a brief time making it hard to track her even out of her power sometimes.
- retains speed for 1 second after phasing
- completely invisible to the survivor
- Survivors hear her general direction but not her exact position
- No terror radius on her (but on her husk)
- Can attack directly out of the power, giving a massive lunge distance similar to wraith.
- In terms of addons her cooldown can be made 10 seconds, or even lower with addons, with her typical combination being 10 second cooldown and 8.8 m/s movement speed
So what does spirit get here vs the bat? She moves faster in her power, but slower overall, has to stop for 1.5 seconds to charge, has a 5 second duration, and a 15 second cooldown. In return, she gets to keep her movement speed, the survivors cannot see her, they can hear her location just like the bat, she leaves a husk that has a terror radius that can confuse survivors, and can immediately attack right out of the power, making it much better at loops whereas the bat is more about catching up between loops. You can't really got into bat, go in front of the survivor, come out of bat, and then hit them before they go around the loop to the pallet/window. Spirit can though because she can hit immediately out of her power and for much longer range.
The point i'm making here is, yes, dracula is similar to 3 other killers rolled into 1. But when you look at the pure numbers, all 3 powers are significantly worse than the main powers of the other killers. Dracula often has longer charge times, can't cancel powers, moves slower, doesn't have as long of range, and has more limitations on the power vs the similar killers.
Now obviously comparing 1/3 of this killer's power to each killer and saying that "pyramid head is a better hellfire" isn't totally fair in terms of the overall power of the killer, but the point is when comparing each part of the power, each power is individually worse than the killer it is based off of, when combined together, your mileage may vary. Personally i think he's probably on par with wesker overall, better than pyramid head, and worse than spirit when taking all things into account.
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@Jexckmgn5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899041#Comment_3899041
You're making a valid point. The SWF is a huge problem in terms to game balance and they're a deciding factor to this whole balance fiasco.
You also have to keep in mind that the game did not launch with SWF being an option. It was added later.
Ideally what i think needs to be done is split them up into 2 different modes. Let SWF be the "ranked" mode, and make it so the "normal mode" only allows you to play with 1 other person, and matchmaking sets it up so that its always 4 randos, or 1 team of 2 with 2 other randos. That way you can still play with 1 other friend at least, but you don't get the massive coordination that you get with a team of 4.
Then for the ranked mode, they could balance it differently like they do current game modes with different gen times, items, maps, perks, addons, whatever, and the only way to play ranked as a survivor is with a 4 stack.
Then they can have the ranked mode actually show, you know, your rank. And the normal mode is just for funsies.
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@DaveyTheDuck said:
Does anyone else feel like they just haven't been utilized correctly for the longest time? They're genuinely really cool but have hardly been implemented into maps lately, and when they are, they're usually just used as something you HAVE to break in order to make a window weaker which is pretty dull. I think Midwich has a few solid breakable wall placements where it's more of an optional short cut you have to think about whether to open it up first since it can also benefit survivors. I'm not saying they should be everywhere, I just wish they were used better.
They are pretty bad TBH.
They were billed as some kind of cool thing that would give options, but the reality is, they function as a pre-dropped pallet that a survivor can't vault over. So what that means is, there are breakable walls that the killer has to break, and their are breakable walls they should not break.
There are many walls such as ones on "the game" or dead dawgs where you actively don't want to break them, because they create a bottleneck for the killer to corral survivors into in the case of the game, or in the case of dead dawgs, breaking them actually creates an infinite for the survivors depending on the layout.
Basically, they either waste a killer's time slightly at best, or at worst, they create an infinite god loop if the killer breaks one they shouldn't.
Ideally if i were to change them, they should make sure that ALL breakable walls when broken do not actually strengthen things for survivors and should instead weaken a loop or structure when broken. Then make it so that survivors can spend a few seconds "building" the breakable wall up at various doorways, and then when a killer breaks them they disappear. This probably needs to happen with a rework of "the game" map.
This would make them more interesting because it would allow survivors to close off certain areas and delay the killer in certain areas that they want, and doesn't make them a knowledge check for the killer, and instead they function as another line of defense that survivors can put up in the killer's way.
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@Nathan13 said:
Just had a skull merchant match which I unfortunately had to slug a survivor after he repeatedly abused boil over in the upper part of the main building in crotus. So I eventually had to slug him which ironically he DC’d a few minutes after.
I’m all for reducing slugging but I also don’t want killers punished for slugging when it’s most necessary. Thats all I’m saying. :-)They won't i suspect.
All of the information they released, has been talking about how its "unfun to go against" and "hard to counter" and "annoying to deal with" etc. Without actually acknowledging the issue of WHY killers slug.
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@UndeddJester said:
To be honest, as someone who plays SoloQ for majority of my game time, I feel like auras is a lazy way of bridging the SoloQ and SWF gap. Making decisions with imperfect information is an aspect of the game I really like.
For example you can take an aura perk on a killer to make finding people much easier, but you have to forgo slowdown or assistance at loops for the privilege.
For Survivor, you can with a bit of thought and carefully paying attention, derive pretty much all the information you need just intuiting it from HUD. Auras in this scenario give more precise information, but it comes at the cost of not having anti-slug, anti-tunnel, help in chase or faster gen/heal speeds... the value of aura perks comes from the fact that at basekit your info is good, but not great/perfect.
The immediate problem with this suggestion of giving basekit auras is so many perks become immediately redundant. Empathy, Alert, Empathic Connection, Better Together, the list goes on...
However the real issue with a change such as this is giving free access to basekit auras is dumbing down the game... you can't get around this fact, you are reducing the Survivors need to pay attention and read the trial around them.
Some people may want that, as their only interest is chase... but players like myself who are much more tactically minded (and lack the raw skill/ability) find their success through more my ability to read the game. The question you're gonna have to answer, is "is dumbing down the game a good thing, and how much do you want the game to be dumbed down?". If you grant auras at basekit, you remove the skill of game sense and having to read the trial since everyone just has it at base, and thus you take away the primary skill of people like myself that allows us to shine.
The HUD to my mind was one of the best additions to this game. It is subtle enough that it doesnt guve you perfect information and sometimes you may read thw trial incorrectly, but its effective enough that you can use it greatly enhance your ability to interpret the state of the trial.
The only thing missing is there are certain effects that you need to be shown to teammates via the HUD when they are in play.
I would opt for all perks to be hidden by default, but have the option to share them when in the trial, this would mean you can show part or all of your build to teammates, or you can keep your build hidden. Since the perks are hidden by default, the benefit of the doubt assumption is this player hasn't got round to exposing their perks, or has only bothered to show the important ones.
At this point I think the info SoloQ needs is basically fulfilled, and aura perks are not a requirement, but do have their value in the game.
The entire game is designed around survivors being thrown together, not knowing who each other are, and making decisions with imperfect information.
The problem with the game is not that solo queue is bad, the problem is that SWF (and specifically discord) breaks the game in a way that fundamentally makes the game impossible to balance or design around the original idea of the game.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898964#Comment_3898964
I’m not saying killers have it worse. I’m literally saying we should care about BOTH sides or neither side.
And the fact that slugging takes away player agency, isn’t a valid reason for it to be changed. DBD is a freeze tag game. It’s normal for survivors to be stuck on a hook, which removes player agency. Being slugged on the ground, isn’t less player agency than being stuck on a hook, (except for hook ragequitting, which is against the game rules).
I agree with that. Saying its because it "takes away agency" is not really that valid.
The reality is the game is designed in such a way that survivors play a game, and the killer actively takes away the survivor agency by putting them on a "time out". Everything a killer does to a survivor takes away their agency.
The idea of freeze tag is a good analogy.