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Can we please get more power diversity in future? (killers)

SummerBBQDwight SummerBBQDwight
in Feedback and Suggestions

Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

Comments

  • WolfePhD WolfePhD

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    Hag and Trapper are not very popular to play. Several streamers are on record having a “No Hag” policy. If you were a company, and you wanted to sell new content, would you make a killer for a niche, minority audience?

    I think the M1 killers need a specific buff, like basekit corrupt intervention, for your request to be viable.

  • jesterkind jesterkind

    @WolfePhD said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    Hag and Trapper are not very popular to play. Several streamers are on record having a “No Hag” policy. If you were a company, and you wanted to sell new content, would you make a killer for a niche, minority audience?

    I think the M1 killers need a specific buff, like basekit corrupt intervention, for your request to be viable.

    If I were in charge of a company in this hypothetical, I would make content for a niche audience… just less of it.

    More diversity is only a good thing once you've already got a solid stable of the popular stuff, which DBD undeniably has. The people who like M2 dash/projectile killers are very well served, the people who prefer the alternatives aren't. You've already got the first group, it's smart to try and pull in the second as well; they aren't mutually exclusive at all. You can have both.

  • squbax squbax

    Thing is, they have a history for being disasters, at least trap killers. Trapper has been buffed many times and still continues to be a joke, hag is just bad if the survivors are smarter than goldfish and her mechanics havent changed, she is probably the only one who itsnt really an issue aside from how weak she is.

    And then you have Skull merchant, not only was she a release that saw negative reaction at first, unlike others of the like it never ended, the original iteration was competing against old legion for who could be more obnoxious to play against. Then bhvr invested time and resources on a rework, this money and dev time was absolutelly lost because her new rework didn't adress her issue (she was awful to play against). So now we are going for a third time wasting money and resources.

    Bhvr I guess wont be making trap killer any time soon, the last one they did is by far the most hated character in the game, has wasted resources and development time and continues to prove a failure, its literally burning money so I dont think they would like to repeat the experience.

  • QwQw QwQw

    I agree. There are still so many interesting concepts for killer powers that haven't been done before, yet Behavior seems intent on just giving us more dash/projectile killers. I guess i can't blame them too much, since most of the community eats it up, but it's still personally disappointing to see.

  • Reinami Reinami

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:

    • Trapper
      • Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
    • Hag
      • Similar to trapper
    • Freddy
      • I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
    • Pig
      • Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
    • Legion
      • Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
    • Twins
      • It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
    • Pinhead
      • Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
    • Sadako
      • Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
    • Knight
      • Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
    • Skull Merchant
      • Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.

    Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.

    So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.

    • Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
    • Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
    • Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
    • Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
    • Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
    • Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
    • Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
    • Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
    • Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
    • Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.

    Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.

    Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.

  • ChuckingWong ChuckingWong

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:

    • Trapper
      • Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
    • Hag
      • Similar to trapper
    • Freddy
      • I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
    • Pig
      • Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
    • Legion
      • Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
    • Twins
      • It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
    • Pinhead
      • Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
    • Sadako
      • Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
    • Knight
      • Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
    • Skull Merchant
      • Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.

    Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.

    So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.

    • Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
    • Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
    • Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
    • Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
    • Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
    • Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
    • Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
    • Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
    • Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
    • Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.

    Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.

    Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.

    Oh cmon survivor mains blaming themselves …



    Also Sadako and Knight … Similar? What?
    And then further down Pinhead is similar??


    And then this????

    Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors,


    What is happening anymore on this forum…..


    Way too much to unpack on this post

  • squbax squbax

    @ChuckingWong said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592

    Oh cmon survivor mains blaming themselves …



    Also Sadako and Knight … Similar? What?
    And then further down Pinhead is similar??


    And then this????

    Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors,


    What is happening anymore on this forum…..


    Way too much to unpack on this post

    Idk about you but using knights power for chase/downs is only valid for carnifex pallet break, cuz you have to be non sentient to get downed by a guard in current dbd.

  • THE_Crazy_Hyena THE_Crazy_Hyena

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    You know what we also haven't seen in a while. A true stealth killer.

    Granted Chucky has stealth, but it is situational. I was thinking more in the line of Myers and Ghost Face. Primarily M1 killers who rely on being sneaky.

  • Reinami Reinami

    @ChuckingWong said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592

    Oh cmon survivor mains blaming themselves …



    Also Sadako and Knight … Similar? What?
    And then further down Pinhead is similar??


    And then this????

    Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors,


    What is happening anymore on this forum…..


    Way too much to unpack on this post

    The point is their powers are not chase powers, they focus more on macro gameplay.

  • ChuckingWong ChuckingWong

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902596#Comment_3902596

    The point is their powers are not chase powers, they focus more on macro gameplay.

    Thats just not true about knight, he can do both. Thats part of why hes so powerful is he can sandwich you in loops. As well as get double hits.

    Pinheads power on global is not his main either, that is extra. His main power is his chase power, chains.

    Which is anti-loop.


    Again lot to unpack from your post as there are some true things in there, but there is just massive false things in there as well.

    @squbax said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902596#Comment_3902596

    Idk about you but using knights power for chase/downs is only valid for carnifex pallet break, cuz you have to be non sentient to get downed by a guard in current dbd.

    Thats just not the case you get plenty of downs with the jailer and two prong attacking someone.

    And sentient? Sheesh.

    Theres plenty situations where survivors have used up all the resources in large portions of the maps, sometimes there is only a single pallet (yamoaka, coldwinds) and you get guard downs with the assassin, as there is just nowhere for them to go.

  • Reinami Reinami

    @ChuckingWong said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902609#Comment_3902609

    Thats just not true about knight, he can do both. Thats part of why hes so powerful is he can sandwich you in loops. As well as get double hits.

    Pinheads power on global is not his main either, that is extra. His main power is his chase power, chains.

    Which is anti-loop.


    Again lot to unpack from your post as there are some true things in there, but there is just massive false things in there as well.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902598#Comment_3902598

    Thats just not the case you get plenty of downs with the jailer and two prong attacking someone.

    And sentient? Sheesh.

    Theres plenty situations where survivors have used up all the resources in large portions of the maps, sometimes there is only a single pallet (yamoaka, coldwinds) and you get guard downs with the assassin, as there is just nowhere for them to go.

    The knight literally cannot chase with his power since the last round of changes. Maybe you could arguably use the carnifex to break a pallet, but that's about it. The guard will disappear so fast while chasing if you are too close that it won't matter. The point of the knight is to take 2 chases at the same time.

  • JustRight JustRight

    Not nearly enough trap killers

  • ManOMaker ManOMaker

    I think a huge problem with non-dash/projectile killer design can be that while taking the match away from gens can be good in ways, those types of killers can need a huge sink of knowledge to play and play against, which the majority of players (<200hrs playtime) aren't interested in.

  • squbax squbax

    @ChuckingWong said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902609#Comment_3902609

    Thats just not true about knight, he can do both. Thats part of why hes so powerful is he can sandwich you in loops. As well as get double hits.

    Pinheads power on global is not his main either, that is extra. His main power is his chase power, chains.

    Which is anti-loop.


    Again lot to unpack from your post as there are some true things in there, but there is just massive false things in there as well.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902598#Comment_3902598

    Thats just not the case you get plenty of downs with the jailer and two prong attacking someone.

    And sentient? Sheesh.

    Theres plenty situations where survivors have used up all the resources in large portions of the maps, sometimes there is only a single pallet (yamoaka, coldwinds) and you get guard downs with the assassin, as there is just nowhere for them to go.

    If you have a window you will be able to avoid a guard the whole hunt, if you cant run the Ai I am sorry but any power in the game would be too much for you to handke as a player, practice more. Also if knight+ a guard chases you he is basically wasting guards and the decay of the hunt from proximity makes it a non issue when getting pincered.

  • Bodark Bodark

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    Nope, absolutely not. I just came up with a unique disguise transforming killer idea and everyone hated it because it would be too complicated for new survivors. It wasn’t as simple and straightforward as Draculas 3 transformations and Vecnas 4 spells and 6 magical items.

    This community just wants the same killers on repeat with different skins and no unique gimmicks I guess.

  • ChuckingWong ChuckingWong

    @squbax said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902614#Comment_3902614

    If you have a window you will be able to avoid a guard the whole hunt, if you cant run the Ai I am sorry but any power in the game would be too much for you to handke as a player, practice more. Also if knight+ a guard chases you he is basically wasting guards and the decay of the hunt from proximity makes it a non issue when getting pincered.

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902614#Comment_3902614

    The knight literally cannot chase with his power since the last round of changes. Maybe you could arguably use the carnifex to break a pallet, but that's about it. The guard will disappear so fast while chasing if you are too close that it won't matter. The point of the knight is to take 2 chases at the same time.

    Yea thats just not the case, I would need to see some knight gameplay from your guys' perspective to diagnose what the issue here is. You absolutely use your power in chase and loops. If you arent that's great, but you should be trying to get the double hit all the time. If not sandwhiching survivors on loops.

    You definietly try to get the double hit as often as possible. You dont just use a minion on someone else and then hope it keeps someone occupied while you m1 chase someone on a loop. They will just reset and youll be stuck waiting on carnifex for every down, which would be silly.

    Really need to see your guys' knight gameplay I am intrigued how anyone would ever think you dont use his power as anti-loop or chase.

  • SaltyNooty SaltyNooty

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:

    • Trapper
      • Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
    • Hag
      • Similar to trapper
    • Freddy
      • I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
    • Pig
      • Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
    • Legion
      • Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
    • Twins
      • It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
    • Pinhead
      • Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
    • Sadako
      • Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
    • Knight
      • Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
    • Skull Merchant
      • Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.

    Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.

    So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.

    • Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
    • Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
    • Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
    • Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
    • Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
    • Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
    • Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
    • Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
    • Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
    • Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.

    Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.

    Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.

    You see, the thing about everything you listed doesn't come down to the killer characters themselves; it comes down to the people PLAYING those killers.

    All of those killers weren't meant or made with the intention to be "Anti-loop", they were made with the goal to get survivors to think outside the box and force another type of gameplay. (By your own admission.)

    it was Players that saw the potential of being downright oppressive and made it mainstream knowledge about how Knight can down a survivor at a tile by having them caught by his power and then intercepting them moments after getting hit.

    it was Players who saw the potential of Skull Merchant being the ultimate 3 Genner and made it mainstream knowledge.

    It was Players who saw the DISGUSTING potential in HAG to be the most OBNOXIOUS killer and place traps at hooks rather than at a loop or a gen. (Hag is honestly not a good point to use considering i haven't had a problem with her since 2020, lol; but you get the gist.)

    It was Players who saw the potential in LEGION to easily get Thanaphobia stacks and slow the game down IMMENSELY. (Which is the reason why Thanaphobia has been nerfed and reworked as many times as it has.)

    It was Players who saw the potential in Twins to make them THE MOST OBNOXIOUS killer to date and use Charlotte to body block players while victor runs around the gremlin he is, revealing survivor locations by his growls; or even an extremely powerful slugging/camping duo.

    It really has nothing to do with the killers and their powers, it has alot to do with players having zero moral code and choosing to play in ways that no doubtly will piss other people off, lmao.

    (And yes, the same can be said for survivors; but this topic isn't about that.)

  • PetTheDoggo PetTheDoggo

    Well, unique killers are often not popular. That's why…

    Either by killers, survivors, or both.

  • kit_mason kit_mason

    @SummerBBQDwight said:

    Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...

    Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.

    If they can make a design for a area denial/zoner killer that the playerbase doesn't immediately despise, sure. It'd be nice to have more diversity.

    But that's only happened on very infrequent occasions. Artist comes to mind as somewhat the only example. Trapper maybe you could count but I think that's bc he's super weak, not bc he's actually engaging to vs.

    They make what people like to play and vs, bc people constantly whining about a killer sucks to manage for BHVR. SM and Trickster taught them that one for sure.

  • kit_mason kit_mason

    @SaltyNooty said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592

    You see, the thing about everything you listed doesn't come down to the killer characters themselves; it comes down to the people PLAYING those killers.

    All of those killers weren't meant or made with the intention to be "Anti-loop", they were made with the goal to get survivors to think outside the box and force another type of gameplay. (By your own admission.)

    it was Players that saw the potential of being downright oppressive and made it mainstream knowledge about how Knight can down a survivor at a tile by having them caught by his power and then intercepting them moments after getting hit.

    it was Players who saw the potential of Skull Merchant being the ultimate 3 Genner and made it mainstream knowledge.

    It was Players who saw the DISGUSTING potential in HAG to be the most OBNOXIOUS killer and place traps at hooks rather than at a loop or a gen. (Hag is honestly not a good point to use considering i haven't had a problem with her since 2020, lol; but you get the gist.)

    It was Players who saw the potential in LEGION to easily get Thanaphobia stacks and slow the game down IMMENSELY. (Which is the reason why Thanaphobia has been nerfed and reworked as many times as it has.)

    It was Players who saw the potential in Twins to make them THE MOST OBNOXIOUS killer to date and use Charlotte to body block players while victor runs around the gremlin he is, revealing survivor locations by his growls; or even an extremely powerful slugging/camping duo.

    It really has nothing to do with the killers and their powers, it has alot to do with players having zero moral code and choosing to play in ways that no doubtly will piss other people off, lmao.

    (And yes, the same can be said for survivors; but this topic isn't about that.)

    Sure, but are players not going to be playing these new killers?

    Or do you have some incredible way to force etiquette on a playerbase that is going to do what it takes to win 90% of the time?

  • crogers271 crogers271

    The problem with trap/set up killers:

    With DbD's design being a trap based killer is a relatively straight forward role. The game/maps are not that complicated. Set up at choke points, objectives, etc. So a set up killer will relatively quickly get good at the role while survivors will struggle on how to defeat them.

    However, once survivors do figure out how to defeat the set up, well then the balance of power shifts and now the killer looks really weak.

    So everyone ends up hating the character.

  • iloveandhatethisgame iloveandhatethisgame

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:

    • Trapper
      • Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
    • Hag
      • Similar to trapper
    • Freddy
      • I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
    • Pig
      • Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
    • Legion
      • Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
    • Twins
      • It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
    • Pinhead
      • Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
    • Sadako
      • Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
    • Knight
      • Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
    • Skull Merchant
      • Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.

    Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.

    So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.

    • Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
    • Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
    • Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
    • Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
    • Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
    • Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
    • Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
    • Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
    • Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
    • Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.

    Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.

    Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.

    “Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.”

    all you do is complain constantly

  • Reinami Reinami

    @ChuckingWong said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902633#Comment_3902633

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902624#Comment_3902624

    Yea thats just not the case, I would need to see some knight gameplay from your guys' perspective to diagnose what the issue here is. You absolutely use your power in chase and loops. If you arent that's great, but you should be trying to get the double hit all the time. If not sandwhiching survivors on loops.

    You definietly try to get the double hit as often as possible. You dont just use a minion on someone else and then hope it keeps someone occupied while you m1 chase someone on a loop. They will just reset and youll be stuck waiting on carnifex for every down, which would be silly.

    Really need to see your guys' knight gameplay I am intrigued how anyone would ever think you dont use his power as anti-loop or chase.

    You do realize they changed the knight recently-ish right?

    In patch 8.1.0:

    • Nerf: added a negative multiplier to the Hunt duration based on proximity to The Knight, reducing the Hunt time by a factor of x3 if The Knight is within 8 metres of his Guard.

    This is massive, if you get even slightly close to the guard, its going to disappear in a couple of seconds.

  • Reinami Reinami

    @iloveandhatethisgame said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902592#Comment_3902592

    “Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.”

    all you do is complain constantly

    I don't complain, i criticize and give feedback.

    The difference between criticism and complaining is i point out things that are wrong, and then offer solutions to those things. Complaining doesn't actually offer solutions.

  • CrossTheSholf CrossTheSholf

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441362/can-we-please-get-more-power-diversity-in-future-killers

    We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:

    • Trapper
      • Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
    • Hag
      • Similar to trapper
    • Freddy
      • I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
    • Pig
      • Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
    • Legion
      • Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
    • Twins
      • It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
    • Pinhead
      • Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
    • Sadako
      • Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
    • Knight
      • Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
    • Skull Merchant
      • Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.

    Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.

    So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.

    • Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
    • Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
    • Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
    • Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
    • Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
    • Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
    • Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
    • Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
    • Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
    • Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.

    Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.

    Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.

    Right on the money there. The powers of the trap killers generally are unliked or useless.

  • CruelLimits1982 CruelLimits1982

    I think everyone is too caught up in the "well if the killer has no way to hit over pallets they wont be A tier" yeah who cares? I'd rather an absolute trash killer be fun to play than a great killer be boring as piss every time a ranged or dash killer comes out I just roll my eyes knowing i'm probably going to play them for their achievement and then just never touch them again

    Also side note every single time they try to do a killer that vastly changes the gameplay like Twins being two killers or Knight being able to summon more people they're buggy for literal months and stay buggy when the devs eventually give up trying to fix them Twins, Knight and Houndmaster are STILL buggy Kaneki will probably have an entire patch dedicated to fixing bugs that'll come and he'll be buggy right until the chapter after him.

  • SoGo SoGo

    As Reinami mentioned, these killers often end up as a disaster or a joke.

    On the other end, variety is good and if BHVR didn't always give in to the complaints from people who probably play blindfolded, these killers could be good.

    (Please BHVR, give Trapper and Hag some attention and buffs they deserve)

  • ChuckingWong ChuckingWong

    @Reinami said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902679#Comment_3902679

    You do realize they changed the knight recently-ish right?

    In patch 8.1.0:

    • Nerf: added a negative multiplier to the Hunt duration based on proximity to The Knight, reducing the Hunt time by a factor of x3 if The Knight is within 8 metres of his Guard.

    This is massive, if you get even slightly close to the guard, its going to disappear in a couple of seconds.

    What?

    Again I need to see how you're playing Knight. Put your prestige up for me on him maybe that's all I need to know.


    If you cant manage a pincer attack ever or a double hit then you are either playing ONLY with torch.


    Or you just dont know how to play him. I have never seen anyone cite the patch from nearly last year as to why they cant get a double hit with him or a pincer attack around a loop. And say his power isnt used in chase. This is just absolutely wack, dont @me until I see some gameplay honestly.

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