Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@OmegaXII said:
You want to prevent tunnelling. Yes tunnelling sucks, I get it.
But let’s ask one question. Is it SO DAMN HARD to bring 1 DS out of 16 perk slots??
And don’t give arguments of DS being useless or no one brings it in solo queues. It’s FAR FROM USELESS. With just one DS it already forces killers to respect it and not tunnel. Even in solos where all other teammates don’t bring it, you yourself can bring it to force an obsession. Why is it so hard??
Asking for obsession basekit is basically asking DS to be basekit. This is very impactful and it’ll shifts the balance of whole game. Survivors will have more slots to put more second chance perks, and killer has to respect it. It’ll create a scenario where killer is against 20 perks because he respects DS but nobody brings it.
Unless there is a overall killer-equivalent buff, obsession base should not be a thing right now.
I'm fine with them doing it, but i'd like to see some base mechanic exist in the game that makes obsession means something. Like maybe some kind of benefit to the killer if they chase their obsession and in return the obsession gets some kind of buff.
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@brubli said:
I see all the time killers who slug survivors just to waste their time or killers who slugged people and just forgot where they left them. Either way I don't see a point as for why survivors should be forced to sit on the ground for 3 minutes doing nothing because the killer can't/won't hook them. Not sure how but the hatch would need to be adjusted for this as many people do slug for the 4k and a bleed out option would remove that option for them. I'm thinking that maybe after 30 seconds or so of not being hooked you can hold down a button to rapidly decrease your bleed out bar. I feel a change like this would be good for the game and save some time. What do you guys think?
Blame yourself and the devs. I can't tell you how many times survivors crawl to some corner of the map when i slug because they have DS then they get pissed that i can't find them because they are sound bugged on the ground after LITERALLY 2 ######### YEARS OF THIS BUG NOT BEING FIXED
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@gatsby said:
This isn't my first rodeo. I predicted the general ideas of Smash Hit and Power Struggle before. So here are two new predictions for the general ideas of new perks.
1- Endurance Perk for the person going for an unhook.
Savior
You can't save everyone, but that won't stop you from trying.
When you are within 12m of a hooked Survivor, gain the Endurance status.
Any damage taken that would put the Survivor into the Dying State will instead trigger the Deep Wound Status Effect, after which the Survivor has 20 seconds to Mend themselves.
Taking any damage while under the effect of Deep Wound or if its timer runs out will put the Survivor into the Dying State.
"Trust me. We'll make it out of this just fine."
2- Exhaustion Perk that increases the speed or duration of the boost from taking damage.
Faster than Fast
You know when its time to leave and you don't look back.
After taking damage from a special attack or basic attack, break into a Sprint for three additional seconds.
Faster than Fast causes the Exhaustion Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
Faster than Fast cannot be used while exhausted.
"Run first, ask questions later!"
Hopefully not that last one, i'd rather see them rework dead hard to do that instead.
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@Judgement said:
I haven’t seen one of these threads in a while. I think the last time I saw one was shortly after Spirit’s release.
If you were to put all... (checks the wiki)... twenty-three (23) Killers against each other in a free for all style battle, unbound by DBD’s mechanics and balancing, but under the rules of the Entity’s realm, and with no immortality, who would be the last one, or ones, standing?
For Killers who count as multiple characters assume that every character is in the battle at once, so all four Legion members are combative at once, and the Twins can both act at the same time.
Wiki Link to all Killers: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Killers
Discuss.
Edit: words
Edit2: No immortality rule.
So glad that you posted this thread because it was getting close to 2 weeks since the last one was made.
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@Mugombo said:
DS is a perk from a licensed survivor so you have to pay extra for it or get it while it was in the shrine.
So no you can’t just say use DS
I can, because as a killer at high level/MMR, you must be running 3 of the following 6 perks/perk combos or you will lose:
- Ruin + Undying (Hag + Blight DLC)
- BBQ or Thrilling (Bubba or Ghostface DLS)
- Pop goes the weasel (Clown DLC)
- Corrupt Intervention - only if you aren't running ruin (Plague DLC)
- Sloppy Butcher (basekit)
- Surge (Demo DLC)
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@DuskMascato said:
Ok I don’t care if you play killer or survivor but can someone please explain to me why I get hit off death hook? I don’t do anything toxic like T-Bag, flashlight click or anything. If it’s because I spin around the killer avoiding the hit it’s not toxic I just don’t want to die...I feel like the more I stun the killer and dead hard pass them as they miss they get pissed at me or something and hit me ;-; I am not bragging or anything but I’m a rank 6 and I’m good but not the best...I just don’t get why. Is there something I didn’t know that is supposedly toxic? Like using DS, dead hard to run past them, stun them or blind them? I mean that is what those r for...
Ok i don't care if you play survivor or killer but can someone please explain to me why i get teabagged all the time? I don't do anything toxic like camp, tunnel or anything. If it's because i moonwalk to get the hit, it's not toxic, i just want to land the hit. I feel like the more i hit survivors and use pop on the gens they have almost done, they get pissed at me or something and teabag me ;-; I am not bragging or anything but I'm a
rank 6rank 1 and I'm good but not the best...I just don't get why. Is there something i didn't know that is supposedly toxic? Like using Spirt fury, Enduring so that i can hit them through pallets easier? I mean that is what those r for... -
@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2092147#Comment_2092147
Yet Microsoft, Sony and Steam aren't fond of changing them, neither are dbd. I'm not trying to use that as a way to say their balanced but rather they won't be changed that way because neither party would be in favour of it. That's why we still have hard achievements such as Left Behind, because they don't and won't want to go through the effort I'd presume.
Additionally, my other point is still valid.
That's because those achievements are still possible to obtain. The huntress hatched one is an example. Steam achievements are easy to change/add, but the consoles aren't too fond of doing so. However, their policy is, as long as the achievement is still possible to obtain (doesn't matter how hard) you cannot change it.
However, if they change keys to behave differently, so that it is not actually possible to ever obtain the achievement, then sony and the like will let BHVR do it.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Scrapping or disabling them would be impossible as there are both archive challenges and achievements related to them. While the former is mostly fine, the latter isn't as Steam, Microsoft and Sony aren't too fond of achievements having to be changed and I doubt the devs would want to make one of them impossible.
Regarding the moris being changed before keys, it's because moris are much easier to change. The only values related to them are amount of hooks and the amount of people that die to them. Keys on the other hand, are a lot harder to balance due to them having a lot more variables.
STOP USING ACHIEVEMENTS AS AN ARGUMENT TO NOT BALANCE THE ######### GAME.
Achievements CAN be changed so long as the achievement is no longer possible to get.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
It being deactivated on self healing needs to be changed to be a full heal. If you've started healing you could yes argue you're not being tunneled but say you start healing and killer decides to come tunnel you now because they see you've been unhooked or see you started healing yourself. You get tunneled for free now and the perk fails you. This wouldn't be abusable either because you still can't do gens without losing it nor heal others.
If the killer sees you healing, you are the exact reason that DS needed to be nerfed. DS is no longer 60 seconds of invulnerability. Why are you healing yourself so quickly after being unhooked? You should be running somewhere safe, then making sure the killer isn't there, and then healing yourself.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090319#Comment_2090319
It's actually closer to 700, but that includes all employees. In case you haven't noticed, they need HR, legal, custodial, maintenance, and all sorts of overhead that isn't remotely related to building a game.
Even within the team dedicated to DBD, there are separate divisions for audio, graphics, game development, etc. etc. etc. So an even smaller percentage of an already small percentage is working on these.
Then, you have to move onto identifying, fixing, and implementing the fixes of said bugs. Just recognizing a bug isn't enough. You have to find what is causing that bug, and tweak it if possible. Many times, bugs aren't the result of someone accidentally sneezing on their keyboard, but unintended features caused by other intended features. Then you consider that BHVR doesn't have the most experience in running a huge video game like DBD (The proverbial "one glitch gone, 50 glitches added") and it's understandable that patches are dripping out at this rate.
Sure, but look at a company like Riot Games. They had around 600 employees 10 years ago and even back then LoL was the most played game in the WORLD and that included everyone as well. BHVR is huge compared to the size of their game.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090254#Comment_2090254
Don't forget that they are one of the smallest video game companies, in relation to the size of their game.
You realize they have like 600+ employees right?
Behaviour Interactive Inc. is a Canadian video game development studio specializing in the production of 2D and 3D action/adventure games for home video game consoles, handheld game consoles and personal computers. -
@Mineguy said:
I'm playing killer my self so don't think this is a survivor main cry talk. I'm just confused. People are crying for months and are still not happy.
Wraith got 2 buff updates
Clown got reworked and is a lot stronger
Blight is fixed
Trappers traps are now having a better luck chance
Ds got nerfed
Trickster getting a buff next wee
Survivor animations are now more clear (Hillbilly is happy)
Like common, every killer gets update after Update buffed. Yeah I know sfw is stronger but bhvr is finally trying to make the game more balanced so just wait for new amazing changes.
You need to be high MMR to understand.
Wraith basically is no longer required to take an addon. This was more of a quality of life fix than anything. Although the uncloak speed duration was a nice buff along with true invisibility. Either way, wraith is probably mid to upper mid tier now.
Clown rework doesn't change much, his counterplay is still exactly the same, just throw down a pallet. He can't do anything, must break it, and has no map pressure, goodbye 3 gens in the first chase.
Blight was again, a quality of life change for his camera and wasn't really a buff. Calling "bug fixes" a buff is ridiculous.
Trappers traps was normalizing RNG, which was good for both sides because it really sucked as trapper when people got out on the first try, but also for survivors when it took them 20 tries.
Survivor animations wasn't a buff or a nerf, it was just updating old art.
Now, let's talk about high MMR, top level play. Just watch a marth stream some time.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2089786#Comment_2089786
Might want to re-read the notes:
Main Event now allows full normal movement speed AND the recoil and spread is reduced on ALL knives.
Moving at normal speed with accurate knives is a buff.
Normal speed is not 3.86 m/s. That is still slower than a survivor, all they have to do is hug a corner and you can't hit them with main event. The problem with main event is that it is bad at everything.
You are too slow, so they can hug a corner. Then you might think, well it is meant to be situational like when they go down a hallway or something. Sure, okay, except you can only use it in a 10 seconds window, then it goes away. On top of that, once it is over, you can't use your power for a few seconds.
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@Quake said:
Title.
It is ridiculous to me to even mention that such a GAME BREAKING bug is not top priority right now and hasn't been fixed yet.
We know. BHVR is literally one of the slowest developers when it comes to bug fixes and content that exists in modern gaming.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
Could it work? Would it improve the state of play?
What if perks were categorized (i.e. Gen Speed, Chase, Aura Reading) and restrictions on # of bannable/draftable perks were placed by category?
Do you think its worth testing on PTB?
Survivors would become too powerful. Unless the killer is running 2 or 3 out of 6 or so perks, they are going to get bullied.
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@ItzZane_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088673#Comment_2088673
I like this change but the "Break hatch" action shouldn't make it unusable for the rest of the trial It can be used when there is 1 survivor left in the trial
It makes hatch more fair. If the killer finds it first, then that's it, the killer found it first, survivor still gets a chance to open the gates. This means that survivors can't go in and get a lucky key or the killer having to defend a 3rd objective. If you are getting to the point where you are the last survivor, you don't deserve the hatch, the hatch is something you get lucky with sometimes.
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@beached said:
I know this may be a more loaded question but seriously I don’t get the desire to play this game so sweaty and doing anything to ensure a win. I’ve gone against THREE Irri Head/Infantry Belt huntress’ TODAY alone. There are four man sweat squads, and I’m not talking your basic SWF I’m talking about people who purely want to do the gens and immediately leave the match. I guess I just want to have fun and try to get flashlight saves or make good plays with blight. Maybe I just don’t understand that overwhelming desire to play in a way that is scummy just to win a match.
I feel like when I started playing Dead by Daylight it wasn’t super sweaty and there would always be an Irri Head Huntress or a sweaty four stack that just wants to piss off the other side simply because they could but I’ve found that it is so much more common now than it was before. I know that this is turning into more of a rant than a discussion but I genuinely want to know if there is anybody else that still likes to just mess around when they play. I just find myself wanting to have matches running stuff like appraisal and plunderers and have fun with some uncommon perks like even a sabo build (which is pretty much useless in this day and age considering the hook respawns in 15 seconds and there is a hook every couple meters).
I personally think that encouraging survivors and killers to run fun perks would make the game so much more enjoyable for both sides. I ran into a demo just the other day with backpack build and I let him carry me half the match and he got downs and ultimately gave me hatch. Maybe I’m just the minority here but does anybody else feel that there are ways to convince people to relax a bit before going into a match?
PS I’m not whiny about SWFs who just want to have fun my only qualm is SWF’s that go into public matches and play like they’re in a Comp tournament.
Introduction I am here to teach you to win. Playing to win is the most important and most widely misunderstood concept in all of competitive games. The sad irony is that those who do not already understand the implications I will spell out will probably not believe them to be true at all. In fact,An excerpt from the free book:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
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@dbd900bach said:
I do get why some people say he just needs to have a faster movement speed but after thinking for a moment it doesn't change anything.
I actually think they shouldn't touch his movement because it isn't the problem, his power and only his power, that is the problem. There are buffs that can definitely make him stronger without touching his base movement speed but the unfortunate thing is that I don't think they'll give him buffs that boost him to nurse or spirit tier.
I think they should buff his movement speed, but they should do something that makes him unique. I'd like to see them buff his movement speed to be 120 or even 125%. Then make it so his m1s apply 4 stacks of laceration (meaning 4 m1s to down) this makes him an actual unique killer that is different than the others rather than just an objectively worse huntress or deathslinger.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088676#Comment_2088676
honestly I'm not sure.
Achievements can be changed as long as they are no longer possible.
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@A_Creative_Name said:
Nerfing a key to open the hatch slower or open it with skill checks wont solve the main problem keys currently bring to the game, leaving the game earlier. Like old moris, keys were a survivor counterpart that let you end games early. The only way to balance keys like moris is to adjust the hatch’s spawn values. What do I mean by this? Its a relatively easy fix actually, easier than nerfing keys. The hatch will only spawn visibly at 5 gens complete across the board REGARDLESS OF THE REMAINING SURVIVORS. The only time this will be an exception is when there is 1 survivor left standing. This will solve the problem where survivors can leave the game earlier, and keys won’t need a nerf! And again, it’s an easier adjustment then reworking keys as a whole.
Mori + Key/Hatch fixes that i always talk about:
Fix moris:
- Make yellow mori basekit, it doesn't matter too much gameplay wise, and makes the game a bit more fun and moris a somewhat more common thing for games that killers completely win.
- Ebony mori allows 2 kills and at the start of the trial the generator furthest from the killer is automatically completed.
- Green mori allows 1 kill
- Moris now work on a token system. Every time you get a hook, you gain 1 token. Everytime a generator is completed, you lose 1 token. Spend 3 tokens to mori a survivor.
Keys:
- Make it so there is an unlocking animation for the hatch (think horror movies where the person fumbles with their car keys) for 10-15 seconds.
- Keys now only allow 1 survivor to escape, then it immediately closes.
- Once the hatch has been closed, it cannot open again for 60 seconds for any reason.
- Once the last generator has been repaired, or the hatch is automatically opened, the killer unlocks the "break hatch" action. Breaking the hatch, closes it, and renders it unusable for the rest of the trial.
- Buff franklin's to have the timer tick down if an item is on the ground (this makes it so good survivors can't just hide a key somewhere on the map as soon as they know franklins is in play)
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@Raccoon said:
I don't run it a lot, but it's currently 22 out of 40 potential uses (matches brought).
I never used it to begin with. DS was and still is a crutch. If you don't like getting tunneled, get better.
Personally i think tunneling is fine because at least i still get to play the game. Facecamping on the other hand...
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@RX7MANE said:
Why is it so hard to get stunned or get a stun when encountering a pallet as survivor/killer now? Will this be looked into or not just wondering .
Its bugged, likely due to the addition of smash hit, where pallets now likely do some kind of check if the survivor throwing it has smash hit. The devs already confirmed on their twitter that it is being looked into.
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@comradekali said:
⠀⠀
Because what is to stop people from forcing their game to crash instead of just leaving the game? You can't tell the difference.
If you don't leave games on a regular basis and experience a technical problem that makes you leave the game, by the time you resolve that technical problem, your penalty will be over and you can queue again.
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@RyRapsYT said:
Lately in this forum people have been complaining so much about killers being way too overpowered. The Killers in this game are not overpowered (except maybe Freddy). People complain about the little things about both sides, killer mains hating on survivor mains and vice versa. I play both sides equally so I am not biased. The forum and the community keep pounding nerf requests on killers that don't even need nerfs. I also see posts about completely balanced survivor perks that " need a nerf"
The truth is that the killers should be powerful, they have to go up against a four-man survivor team. They need to be good enough to actually play the game and beat the survivors. Games like f13 created Jason who is overpowered in both the game and the movies, it was fun because there was basically an almost unstoppable enemy which made the game very interesting to play. In this game, the moment the new killer releases, the survivors and some of the killers begin to hate immediately, it's either too bad or too good because no killer can ever be perfect.
The Killers should be overpowered compared to the survivors. The game is not as scary as other games out there, killers that are more powerful and creepy looking is what we need. The problem is that most people are missing the concept of DBD and get pissed off when a killer is powerful and wont stop complaining about it. People need a reason to fear the killers.
But I don't mean completely make the game killer sided like f13. There needs to be a balance between the game, the killer should be powerful but not impossible to play against. The game should feel tough every round. Like there cannot be a killer that just destroyes everyone. The game needs balance, and to create balance the survivor perks need a slight buff to the ones that are not very great, and the killers all need tweaking to make them strong. Perhaps DBD could make game modes like 2v8 to help the killer and to help the survivors. Strong killers would give a reason to fear them.
The fact that you think freddy might be overpowered shows that you know about as much about this game as those people do. At high MMR/tournament level play, the only VIABLE killer is nurse and maybe spirit.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Changes are on their way.
Even when he becones decent to play he'll still be a depip machine. As long as laceration doesn't count towards emblems pipping is a long distant dream
That will likely be fixed. Pyramid head's cages didn't count for emblems either and it was fixed. I think victor had similar problems with hitting/downingsurvivors not counting.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2087339#Comment_2087339
So, in other words, Scott started his video with a common belief fallacy and as a result there's no room for debate?
I actually just watched the video, but, I didn't hear the "We all know that survivors..." quote, so you'll have to give me the time stamp for that. At any rate, he doesn't get into game balance in the video because it's not relevant to the topic at hand.
The video is entirely about how subjective "wins" are in Dead By Daylight. If anything, accepting that win conditions fundamentally aren't well-defined just makes arguing that one side is overpowered even harder to justify. Someone could call survivors OP because their win condition is 12 hooks and it's hard to 12-hook everyone, for example, but will that convince someone who cares first and foremost about raw kills/escapes, pips, BP gain, rift progress, etc.? Certainly not.
Edit: I've been watching more from these streamers - they seem to say that the absolute best survivor squads are OP based on tournaments as evidence, but also that those squads are extremely rare in public matches. Tournaments are not reflect the experience in a public match, though, even at the highest skills. Win conditions are different, matchups are determined by MMR in the public matches while tournaments use other methods, tournaments ban loadout items, maps, play styles, etc. In order to truly determine balance at the highest skill levels we need a mature MMR and lots of data from those highest-skill matches.
Edit 2: This comment by zarr may be interesting to you:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1890692#Comment_1890692
You watched the wrong video. And it is not a fallacy. Literally just watch a marth stream sometime.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2085821#Comment_2085821
There is no way all streamers agree with that, for one, and regardless their opinion doesn't mean much without evidence to back it up. "I played in a few tournaments, and..." or "I get beaten badly by SWFs occasionally and I'm a good player" or "everyone agrees that..." aren't good arguments no matter who is making them. It is a debate until someone can provide a shred of rigorous underpinning to that point of view.
It's also a pointless argument so long as MMR isn't mature because survivors are statistically underperforming at high rank. Even if you're right and the game is survivor-sided at the highest skill levels, that will be irrelevant until matchmaking improves because squads capable of seizing that advantage are rare at best at high rank. If they weren't, kill rate would not spike so much at red rank. In the real world, for every decent team you face as killer, you're going to face several teams of solos, or boosted potatoes, or a mix of good and bad players. So long as this is the case, I see no reason for the constant "survivor OP" posts on the forum. Even if that balance issue exists at the highest skill ratings, red rank killers should be performing very well. For those that are not, it's probably because they're getting outplayed.
They do though. Watch that debate scott had when they were talking about hooks vs kills. Literally every person in there didn't even debate the idea that survivors are too powerful at high level, it wasn't even a question, it was just a given. Scott even said at the beginning. "We all know that survivors at high skill are too powerful" It wasn't even part of the debate.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084789#Comment_2084789
You actually pointed back to three of the four typical arguments I see for this in one comment!
Tournaments are not an effective representation of actual game balance for a bunch of reasons. First, there are usually lots of bans - maps, loadout items, cosmetics, and even play styles (e.g. slugging, tunneling, repairing while injured) are often not allowed. Second, they are forced to define a win condition and this pushes players to play differently. For example, a tournament based on BP gain will result in survivors making different plays than a tournament in which kills/escapes or emblems determine the winner. In the real world you'll have a whole mix of different goals; some people who just want to escape, some people are just trying to do dailies and rift challenges, some people are trying to pip above all else, etc. Finally, there is no skill rating for the participants and no robust competitive scene, so it's hard to say how much the skill of the players is affecting results and how much is game balance.
Streamers aren't a great reflection of game balance because they are often substantially better and more experienced than the players they're matched up with. MMR may one day change this, but it's not there yet. For now, both survivor mains and killer mains are putting out their 50 match win streak videos and such, because matchmaking is a much more important factor in the outcome than actual game balance right now.
If you're more concerned with streamer/public opinion than how their matches actual go, though, that's just the common belief fallacy.
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If the highest skill matches start to skew towards survivor once MMR is more mature / functional, I'll be the first one calling for balance changes. I haven't seen anything to suggest that's the case, though, and given that matchmaking is such a huge factor in match outcomes right now I'm not sure why so many folks have made game balance the boogeyman.
Streamers aren't a great reflection of game balance because they are often substantially better and more experienced than the players they're matched up with. MMR may one day change this, but it's not there yet. For now, both survivor mains and killer mains are putting out their 50 match win streak videos and such, because matchmaking is a much more important factor in the outcome than actual game balance right now.
That's just it though. They are substantially better and more experienced than the players they're matched up with. They often literally play this game for a job, and have 5k+ hours in the game. And STILL, all of these people with more combined knowledge than probably everyone in this thread KNOW that the game is survivor sided. It's not even a debate.
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@Taijitu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084101#Comment_2084101
I agree with what you've said, but I don't think that those 2% are just "better players"... A lot of the times it's that they're on voice comms and can communicate vastly more efficiently and quickly than a survivor team that has to guess what their teammates' next plays are going to be. Which, again, is never going to be 100% fixed unless they add voice chat as a baseline part of the game for everyone to have and then balance around that.
I agree that's not really an ideal solution and I hope they come up with something better. But right now, they've gone ahead with the "balance around that" part and skipped the "add voice chat" part, which IMO makes the game way too hard for the typical solo queue "normal" survivor.
Voice chat is not why that 2% does better. It certainly helps and makes them better, but it all can be done without voice chat. All it takes is for survivors to play efficiently on gens, and you are going to lose.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084111#Comment_2084111
Why though? If someone is tapping a gen during a chase they're sacrificing distance to avoid regression. It's a calculated risk, not free.
You should only be kicking a gen if there's a fair amount of progress on it and you are reasonably confident that there are no nearby survivors who will be able to stop the regression. If survivors across the map (for example 20-30 seconds away, as you said) are forced to come to that gen because of the kick, that still could have wasted quite a bit of survivor time, so it might still be a fair decision even against a good team on comms.
I see no reason to buff kicking gens in any way. For one, I haven't seen any data to suggest high-skill killers need a boost. For two, this would increase the gap between SWF and solo because information on which gens are regressing becomes much more important when killers are systematically kicking more.
I haven't seen any data to suggest high-skill killers need a boost
Watch a tournament, watch literally every streamer and content creator: Scott Jund, Tru3ta1ent, Otz. Everyone knows that this game, at the highest level play, is survivor sided so much so that in tournaments the only viable strategy is that when you aren't playing nurse or spirit you must face camp to get any kills.
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@Gardenia said:
So I decided to try and play some of the males and to be honest I'm underwhelmed by the cosmetics available for them, there are only a small handful of actually good cosmetics for the males imo when compared to the female survivors. Does anyone else feel this way?
Simple, the female skins sell better.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
im afraid I’ve got some bad news.
The 4.6.1 hotfix will not be coming today as it is still being worked on!
So, there is already a thread made that is asking about this thing.
Then a mod responds.
Then you reply to the mod with an "oh no that sucks (cnn).jpg"
Then, instead of doing nothing, you decide to create a new thread, inflate your post count, and create confusion because this thread doesn't have a mod post in it telling everyone what is going on. Instead now, you'll have to post again, to link to the other thread, inflate your post count MORE. When all of this could be avoided by just NOT making this thread.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084080#Comment_2084080
Why should gen tapping be punished? I would argue the killer should be punished for kicking gens at the wrong times.
Because it can be done in a chase. Survivors shouldn't be able to gen tap in a chase.
It takes 80 seconds to repair a gen, and 320 seconds to fully regress a gen. If the killer kicks a gen and then chases a survivor, it is likely that another one is going to come tap the gen or work on it within about 20-30 seconds. This amounts to regressing only about 4 seconds. Kicking gens takes far too much time for no benefit. At high MMR, it is actually bad for killers to ever kick gens, because the amount of time spent kicking, could be spent keeping up with the survivor.
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@Taijitu said:
Let me start by saying that I'm not a frequent flyer of this forum. In fact, I've literally never been here before and I just created an account to write this post begging the devs to please, PLEASE stop buffing killer.
I'm a killer main. I've always been a killer main. But I don't play killer anymore.
Why? Because it's just too easy. Laughably easy, to the point of being boring. It feels like I can mindlessly tunnel survivors, hardly ever use perks or abilities, give no thought to strategy and still rank up.
I came here to share my opinion, and I didn't even have to look 5 posts down to find other players writing about the same thing. So I know I'm not crazy for thinking this or the only person who has noticed a significant shift in balance with the last few updates.
I'm not sure what the impetus is for all the recent changes favoring killers and making life harder for survivors, and like I said I'm not the kind of player who's constantly on forums keeping up with news and posts from the devs. So if that information is already out there somewhere, please enlighten me. But this is the theory I have come up with...
In the past, survivor and killer were fairly balanced. However, at the higher ranks, survivors tended to play in premade teams using Discord, giving them a significant advantage compared to the way the game was designed to be played (without voice chat). The game was no longer balanced at the higher ranks, survivors won more often than killers, and maybe killer became less popular as a result. In order to counteract the apparent imbalance, the devs decide to implement patch after patch full of buffs for killers and nerfs for survivors, and now we are where we are today.
In my opinion, this was the wrong approach. Killer is now way too easy in standard matchmaking, and even when you "lose" a game (3 or 4 survivors escaping) you'll generally still get enough points to not lose pips. Hell, you can even sometimes still gain pips even though you lost.
If I'm correct and the reason for the killer buffs is to attempt to nullify the advantage of voice chat used by high rank survivor teams, then the only way you can ever make that fair is to put voice chat in the game as a standard feature for survivor players. I get that it ruins the immersion, but without that there will always be a discrepancy/imbalance between whether or not the survivors are using voice chat.
A second (and perhaps better) solution would be to rework the pip system for survivors to incentivize play that actually wins games. Combine Evader and Unbroken together into one emblem, then add a second emblem related to gen progress. For example, Lightbringer could be left how it is (points granted based on individual player's percentage of the team's total gen progress) with the second generator emblem being shared among the whole team based on the team's total gen progress so that survivors who distract the killer while their teammates do gens (especially if they are keeping the killer busy primarily through stealth/hiding and not spending much time in a chase) still get credit for helping the team. This would also solve the problem of survivors getting punished with low points/pips when they have a great game where they are never or rarely found/caught/hooked by the killer. Because let's be honest... Gen progress is what wins games for survivors, but it's not what gets you pips. Right now there's way too much incentive for people to everything EXCEPT gens, and people who are focused on actually winning the game (prioritizing gen progress over Altruism/Evader/Unbroken points) get punished with fewer pips.
But yeah, anyway... Regardless of what you guys think the solution is, the current state of the game ain't it. It's ridiculous how many terrible killers I see running around at rank 1 and 2 because it's so easy for them to win right now (or still earn pips even when they lose). And for those of us who actually know how to play killer well, it's just not fun anymore when I don't even have to strategize at all or make any kind of creative use of my perks/abilities/add-ons... I just mindlessly run at people and M1, and even on the rare occasion that the survivors escape I still get enough points to get pips. In other words: boring as hell.
/endrant
The problem is, against what i call "normal" survivors, the game is too easy and i generally 4k. Normal survivors account for probably 85% of my games, with another 13% being absolutely new at the game and i assume is a matchmaking fail.
However, against 2% of the the players the game is vastly different. Survivors at high MMR are extremely overpowered. I'm not even talking about SWF, even good and efficient solo players are near unstoppable. At this level, the only viable killer is nurse and MAYBE spirit. These are the teams that play perfectly efficient, because the ratio of chase time to gen speeds is heavily skewed toward gen speeds being too fast.
The problem though, is that if they fixed this ratio, then the other 98% of games that are already bad, would become completely unbearable. What they need to do, is buff that 98% of games, and then nerf the 2%. This is extremely hard to do.
All of the changes they are making to killers that are buffs, are sometimes smart. They usually only effect that 2% without making the 98% worse. The problem is, they still have a long long way to go before this problem is fixed.
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@GoobyNugget said:
Half a pound of tuppenny rice
Half a pound of treacle
That's the way the money goes
Pop! goes the weasel.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0TEO2QN8MYDB/popgoestheweasel.gif
Pop Goes The Weasel is a teachable perk for the Clown, and it's pretty balanced imo.
Opinions?
Up and down the city road, in and out of the eagle, that's the way the money goes, Pop! Goes the weasel, GoobyNugget.
Its ok, i tend to like surge better in most cases because after you factor in: Looking around for flashlight saves, picking up the survivor, going to the hook, hooking the survivor, figuring out where i want to go next probably around 25 seconds have passed. During that 25 seconds, with the 8% from surge, i got 12 seconds of regression, which isn't much less than 20, and can hit multiple gens.
Honestly, i'd like to see pop become a baseline thing killers can do when kicking a gen, but at like 5%. That way survivors get punished for gen tapping, and so that kicking a gen actually is useful. Given that regression is 4 times less than a survivor repair speed, its pretty much a waste of time without pop. Then, they can buff pop to add to that base to increase it to 10%, and then when they get a hook the bonus is tripled to 30 for 45 seconds.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
Devs, now that you intentionally changed the variables to check the stats of keys, are you gonna change them or not?
Getting to 1 gen left is not that difficult, you can even sacrifice your teammate. :
It's objective math, factual:
Supposing a survivor is hooked immediately, 3 gens in 80 seconds. Last gen repaired by 3 survivors takes 38,1 seconds (going at 2.1 charges/second).
So the hatch will spawn mathematically always if survivors play well and do gen separated.
My guess is, the rework is coming so that is why keys are more common. You don't accidentally mess that kind of thing up. What happened is, they accidentally had part of the rework in but not done yet.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/240345/still-havent-fixed-dying-on-hook-bug
Wait a minute... you have the game on disc?
Console players have a disc. Not everyone goes digital.
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@Nos37 said:
Add a stamina bar (blue for example). Have it drain while survivors run. Have it restore when they do not run.
When the stamina bar empties (turns yellow for example), the survivor becomes winded and the exhausted status effect is applied to them. The exhaustion effect lasts until no longer winded.
While winded, the (yellow) stamina bar no longer drains when running and fills when the survivor stops running. Once the stamina bar is full (turns blue), the survivor is no longer winded and exhaustion is removed.
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Why?
Because a survivor running the killer for an entire marathon and then using Dead Hard or Lithe to extend the chase for another marathon afterward is too stong.
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What is the purpose of the stamina bar?
Survivors should use their exhaustion perks earlier in the chase while they still have the energy to do so.
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Is this too crippling for survivors?
It can be, but it depends on the variables:
- How long does it take the stamina bar to drain?
- Does it refill faster than it drains?
- Does the bar refill at a faster rate while winded?
- Will stamina recovery be affected by Resilience or Vigil?
The devs can code this to make it very crippling or feel nonexistent.
This would not be the way to nerf dead hard and it basically has 0 effect on the other exhaustion perks.
The way to nerf dead hard is to rework it. I personally think they should just make it so when you get hit, you get an extra speed boost that is more powerful than the regular one (think like when you get hit while using sprint burst at the same time)
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@hardtimefun said:
trapper wraith nurse spirit deathslinger, so many killer can get value out of it, shame it's honnestly not that used at all
Its really only good on high mobility killers who don't want to waste time kicking gens because they can jump to another part of the map.
On that note though, i'd like to see i buffed to 13%. This would put it on par with Pop, being about the same as pop (slightly better because you don't have to kick a gen) if you hit 2 gens, which only happens once or twice a game. But better than pop if you hit 3 or more which is really rare and hard to setup, but still strictly worse if it only hits 1 gen.
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@Zixology said:
TL;DR at the bottom...
NOED, as it stands, is one of, if not the most controversial perk in DBD and has been for years.
Survivors argue saying "it's OP" and "it rewards the killer for being bad".
Killers argue saying "just do bones" and "don't 'genrush' then".
Both are somewhat valid arguments. Giving the killer a free one shot time period (endgame) because they didn't defend the gens well enough does seem to reward the killer for not doing their job well enough. But, totems do exist as an objective and do count towards the survivors emblems. So they should be breaking them when they are found and not only focusing on gens.
There are a few problems with NOED considering how the game is moving forward.
Maps are being reworked... While this is mostly good, we are noticing that totem spawns are changing. Don't get me wrong. In the past, we've had some AWFUL totem spawns (looking at you, asylum...). So this is a needed change. However, if newer maps (Lery's, Midwich, Hawkins, Dead Dawg) and map reworks are anything to go by, some of the new totem spawns are kind of ridiculous. Being tucked away in a corner is fine. But having that corner be in a dead end of the map, inside a small crate on the floor, facing a wall, just is too much.
Totems should be spawning in tucked away corners AWAY FROM GENERATORS. Simple as that.
Another issue is with the new HUD. I'm sure a lot of people who are either players of both sides or survivor mains were hoping that we would finally get a totem counter. Something to help bridge the gap between solos and SWF so we can work on balance from that point on. But, NOPE. We didn't. And now that we have the new HUD in place, I can't see it being added anytime soon.
There should be a totem counter on the HUD for both killers and survivors. The killer shouldn't have to run Thrill of the Hunt to see the totem counter. And survivors shouldn't have to just rely on blind hope that because they can't find the last totem after breaking four, that someone else broke it for them.
Lastly, the amount of power that NOED gives. Complain all you want. But NOED giving a period of one shot downs until either the game ends or someone finds that tucked away totem hidden in a box underground somewhere, is a bit too much for someone who failed to protect the generators. The perk needs to be reworked.
NOED should not be a Hex perk... BUT! It should still revolve around totems. NOED should be based on how many totems are left at the start of endgame. Make it so that if no totems get broken during the match, hex or not, then the killer has 5 1-shot down NOED stacks. Give the killer 1 stack of NOED per totem left at the start of endgame. AND, make it so that any totems that get broken during endgame, DO NOT make the killer lose anymore stacks. Endgame has started already. Survivors had their chance to lessen the killer's stacks. It's too late now.
Most killers don't even need 5 hits to take out a team in endgame with NOED. And this way, if the survivors missed that one totem somewhere, the killer still gets a free one shot and the survivors aren't completely screwed because they only broke 4/5 totems.
TL;DR
Make totems spawn away from gens. Give both sides a totem counter. And make NOED have stacks of 1-shots based on how many totems are left in the match (hex or not) at the start of endgame. Without NOED being a hex perk anymore.
I agree there should be a totem counter. But NOED is a direct counter to gen rushing. The reason survivors hate it so much is because the meta is to finish gens and ignore everything else. This game was clearly originally designed for survivors to creep around and be afraid to do generators when the killer was near. To hunt for totems, and chests to get items and work their way through the map.
But the game is not that, and gen rushing is the meta. But again NOED is a direct counter to that.
In short. Survivors always tell me to "JUST PRESSURE GENS" so my response to you about NOED?
JUST
DO
BONES
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@Predated said:
I see too many people making the case that it is, but it simply is not. It is a party game. For those disagreeing:
- post-game doesnt reward you for whatever you decide a win is, nor does it punish you for whatever you decide a loss is.
- skill rarely dictates who wins, RNG has a bigger impact on the end result of a game.
- There is a way to play around the RNG by playing as if you were about to lose the entire game, sure, but you can do that in party games too.
- Both sides can "win" if their personal win condition is met. You can double pip as a survivor and consider that a win even though the killer gets a 4k and decides that to be their win. Not a single competitive game has both sides winning, if both sides perform equally good, it tends to be a tie.
- You could have a 50 game "losing" streak, while still gaining ranks. While also having a 50 "win" streak while losing ranks.
- You cannot choose to play casual games or competitive games, therefor the default goes to casual.
- Any tournament won is essentially meaningless.
For people saying you're competing with the opponent. No, you're really not. You dont share the same objectives. You are in opposition of someone. Opposition doesnt mean competition. In war, you dont compete with the enemy who kills the most soldiers, but enemy soldiers are your opposition. Just because you think you're competing, doesnt mean you're actually competing.
The competitive scene of dead by daylight is more comparable to the competitive scene in speedrunning. You are competing with other players in the competitive scene.
But all the facts point to Dead By Daylight being a casual party asymmetric horror game.
It could be a competitive game at one point, sure, but the only competitive scene is third party organized tournaments. But what does winning a title in those tournaments mean outside the third party competitive scene? Nothing, because the game is not competitive.
Neither was smash bros. but that didn't stop the community from making it so.
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@gendoss said:
Honestly it's kind of crazy to me how similar the competitive state of DbD is to Smash Melee. People complain about only 5 or 6 killers being viable like Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, etc. and that's almost exactly how it works in Smash. You only really see 5 or 6 of the same characters in tournaments and that game has been active for almost 20 years now. There's almost as many killers in the game as characters in Melee too. They also ban a lot of stuff that's not so competitive like stages and rules which is common in DbD like banning ultra-rare addons and limiting the items of survivors.
I guess the point of me saying this is because I don't think only a handful of characters being viable or having to ban certain things is inherently a bad thing. Of course I would love it if the weaker killers were more balanced but at this point it doesn't really bother me too much as long as the game is fun to play like Smash Melee has been for so long.
As someone who comes from fighting games. I agree with you. The difference is, that game has a good excuse because it came out before online play became standard.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Whatever you might think about tunneling, camping and slugging, you have to admit that if DbD would be played officially competitive these approaches would probably get prohibited by the rules.
And that's the point. the devs seem currently out to make dbd e-sports ready, yet they say tunneling etc are legit tactics, make things more exciting and that frustration is fun.
Like... if they are aware these elements would get barred in actual big tournaments, why are they keeping them in the regular game?
(lbr we know the answer is because it caters to all the bloated ego brats who thing basement bubba is skill and will throw a tantrum when someone had kindred and they depip from it)
Competitive =/= fair. At high level play, camping is a bad strategy because you will lose. Tunneling is required because gens go too fast and the only viable killers are nurse and spirit.
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@hardtimefun said:
Idk how but yes I played him at rank 1 and obviously depip but he feels SO SLOW, like even slower than huntress or deathslinger, even without using my power I really felt like catching a survivor would take forever compared to the other 110 killers, is he truly 110??? he feels a lot slower than that.
He gets slowed really bad due to his power.
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@NVerde said:
It's on literally every killer lately. Seems to be a little unfair as it makes sense to be working on a generator a distance away when someone is downed and hooked but then they go right for you - any advice for a fairly newbie survivor to counter this?
Killers only use it for the bloodpoints. Thrilling is a better perk than BBQ by all measures but doesn't get used because it doesn't have the bloodpoints bonus.
As for counters. Use the generator to hide your aura and put it between you and the hooked survivor or just jump into a locker once you see them pick up a survivor.
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@valvarez4 said:
15 matches pay to win Freddy. 60 dead survs without camping or tunneling. I expect more difficult games in red ranks, but Freddy is op as hell. Ah, and only 9 DS
Now do it at high mmr.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2077609#Comment_2077609
In which case, I apologise.
I think the big aspect of it too is that this game is made with unreal engine. Which gives you so many free things that much of what people might think is difficult is actually extremely easy. Resolution handling being one of them.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2077143#Comment_2077143
Alternatively, maybe fixing resolution scaling could be kinda difficult. So even though it's been acknowledged and they're attempting a fix then it's harder to actually fix than they first thought.
After all, fixing resolution scaling is significantly easier said than done.
So if you have the technical know-how to prove that it's easy and can be done quickly and BHVR are just lazy and survivor sided, then by all means please offer your vast technical abilities to BHVR and fix it.
This game is broken as #########, but it's because the base game is made with blueprints and they're the definition of spaghetti code. I complain about the bugs all the time but recognise that bugfixing in this game is hardly an easy task.
I'm a software engineer.
It's not hard.
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@GoobyNugget said:
I'm only making this post to satisfy the people talking about nurse in my spirit post.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H4FWJVPAJ4F6/image.png
anyways, opinions on nurse?
haha ez 4k, GoobyNugget.
She and spirit are the only viable killers in the game at high MMR.
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@entitysbreakfast said:
I curse loudly every time I see a survivor burn a haddonfield offering. One night I had 4 back to back haddonfield offerings. This map is absolute dogsh*t.
Thats when i just facecamp. If they burn a haddonfield offering, i face camp.