Keep infinite running, but add stamina bar
Add a stamina bar (blue for example). Have it drain while survivors run. Have it restore when they do not run.
When the stamina bar empties (turns yellow for example), the survivor becomes winded and the exhausted status effect is applied to them. The exhaustion effect lasts until no longer winded.
While winded, the (yellow) stamina bar no longer drains when running and fills when the survivor stops running. Once the stamina bar is full (turns blue), the survivor is no longer winded and exhaustion is removed.
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Why?
Because a survivor running the killer for an entire marathon and then using Dead Hard or Lithe to extend the chase for another marathon afterward is too stong.
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What is the purpose of the stamina bar?
Survivors should use their exhaustion perks earlier in the chase while they still have the energy to do so.
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Is this too crippling for survivors?
It can be, but it depends on the variables:
- How long does it take the stamina bar to drain?
- Does it refill faster than it drains?
- Does the bar refill at a faster rate while winded?
- Will stamina recovery be affected by Resilience or Vigil?
The devs can code this to make it very crippling or feel nonexistent.
Comments
I mean if you're a decent survivor and can run the killer for some time before needing to use Dead Hard it will never be used because you'd be exhausted all the time.
Sounds great. If Dead Hard isn't needed, you get to run other more worthwhile perks, like Prove Thyself or Fast Track. Shakes up the meta a bit. It also levels out the skill range a little.
Survivors who are so good that they can go minutes in a chase without needed to use Dead Hard, don't then also get to use Dead Hard on top of it. But survivors who aren't quite that good, can use Dead Hard (or Sprint Burst or Lithe, or Smash hit) to bring themselves up to that sort of level.
and if you're a decent survivor and can run the killer for some time after being unhooked before needing to use Decisive Strike it will never be used because the timer ran out.
This is like giving exhaustion perks a timer. Doesn't have to be 60 seconds.
I don't think a good "balance" for Dead Hard is making it completely useless (it doesn't need balancing in the first place).
I'm sure punishing good survivors for being good at the game will work out wonderfully.
Did someone say "ONLY SPRINT BURST?"
Dead Hard is not as powerful as DS.
No. This would punish good survivors, punishing skill is the last thing you want to do. If you feel the need to, help the inexperienced players, but don't restrict good players.
There's a difference between 'completely useless' and 'unnecessary'.
Self Care is an 'unnecessary' perk for the most part, but it's still useful with other perks or with certain play styles, such as solo survivors who are still learning the game.
Or Technician, which is a crutch perk for newbies while they learn to hit skill checks.
This would make Exhaustion perks 'crutch perks' for a higher skill level, for people who aren't right at the top, but need an edge. For those few who are right at the top, Dead Hard and the like would then be 'unnecessary' perks, and open up more perk options for them, while not giving them so much of an edge in chases that they can single-handedly run the killer for 5 minutes.
In exchange for balancing this chase-skill disparity, they get an extra perk slot to work with.
Decisive Strike stuns the killer long enough for the survivor to get to a pallet, window, or loop. They can then chain into more pallets, windows, and loops from there.
Dead Hard buys the survivor enough distance (and therefore time) to get to a pallet, window, or loop. They can then chain into more pallets, windows, and loops from there.
With DS the killer has to down you, wipe their weapon, pick you up, and then get stunned for 5 seconds. It buys WAY more time than Dead Hard does. You can just run in a straight line to the exit gate and be invincible with DS, you can't be nearly that risky with Dead Hard.
This is a great change if you want experienced players to quit the game.
That is exactly what the OP has in mind.
Sure a stamina bar is more realistic, but this is not a realistic game. It punishes players even more for being good.
Bad idea.
Killers are already quitting the game
I'm assuming those killers are either bored of the game or bad because killer is at it's easiest right now.
This will only punish YouTubers who only get views for running the killer for 5 gens. RIP
Killers are already faster than survivors
If anything killers should have stamina bars
Imagine saying this with a straight face.
Next asking is : " Plz make survivors spawns already dead on hook im tired to look after them"
No, thank you. If a Killer is chasing me, I should have the ability to run away - it's not my fault if they continue to chase and refuse to do anything else. I literally just had a match like this - and no, most survivors don't want to spend the entire match in chase. It means we get lousy bloodpoints at the end because we were unable to do anything else.
Ok?
Thankfully this kind of change will probably never happen. Seems like too much for BHVR to try and do and I doubt very much they'd want to make a change like this anyhow as it would punish survivors for quite literally no reason.
I could get behind this idea MAYBE if every single map was balanced towards both sides and had reasonable pallet/windows everywhere but if you implemented this system on certain existing maps with dead zones you would just die to the killer faster that doesn't really seem like a great idea to me.
Like I get that this would make more sense but it also comes with a massive host of problems I don't think it would be good at all at least for survivors.
Both sides have been complaining about the other sides crutch perks since the game was released you are just another one on the same pile.
Lots of killers played this game back when DS had an infinite timer. They also played this game when exhaustion would deplete when survivors were still running. Killer is by far at it's easiest and the game is getting more and more popular every year. The player base is getting huge and it's because killer has gotten so many buffs over the years.
Killers have had more nerfs over the past 2 years than buffs, and Survivors have had NO nerfs at all, until this patch with DS.
Imagine punishing killers for being good at the game and efficiently killing survivors... (Oh, wait. Decisive Strike does just that)
Killers are inherently faster than the survivors and don't run out of stamina. Why limit the survivors' ability to run?
I wouldn't want to see a limitation to running on either side. Just a needless restriction in my opinion.
And DS was recently changed so it only punishes killers who tunnel a survivor immediately off hook.
At this point it just sounds like you really just want survivors to be bots you can slaughter.
Maybe killers shouldn't tunnel so much. That's all I've been seeing lately is blatant tunneling.
Read the first post again.
It doesn't limit survivors ability to run, it doesn't slow down survivors at all.
What it does do, is put a limitation of Exhaustion perks, in that it gives survivors a window at the start of a chase (that could be adjusted to whatever is fairest) in which they will need to utilise their Exhaustion perks if they want to. It could be something like 60 seconds, which should be more than enough for the vast majority of survivors. But it means that the very best of the best of survivors, who can effortlessly loop a killer for minutes at a time, doesn't then ALSO get to use a second chance like Dead Hard to extend the chase for ANOTHER 5 minutes on top of the first 5 minutes they ran the killer for.
This is no different to how DS works, with it's 60 second timer. Use it or lose it.
There's a point where perks stop being used and start being abused. This mechanic can be adjusted to that point
Well the fact that you are committing on a survivour for more than a minute can very often lose you the game at that point you really wanna chase someone else
If killers with short chases / high lethality should be looked at for balance (Spirit, Nurse, etc) then why can't the same be said for the opposite reason?
If the chases are too long? "Just drop the chase and chase someone else."
If the 'someone else' is just as good? "Just stand at the exit gates and wait until survivors get bored enough to finish the last gen."
1v1 in a 4v1 game. Pathetic.
Power role. Yeah, for the survivor who has the power to run the killer for 5 minutes. Dead Hard and then run them for 3 more minutes. ON TOP OF needing to be hooked THREE times, but watch out for Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Sabotaging, Bodyblocking, more Dead Hard, insta-heals.
Being unkillable sounds like power to me.
If a survivor can 1v1 a killer then why are they allowed to have teammates. Put them into 1v1's
Of course, but then eventually you're going to have to go after that one survivor. Are you saying that survivors like that are just entirely untouchable? Does that seem balanced to you?
As Nos said above. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, and yet some survivors can best any killer that's not Nurse or Stridor Spirit in a 1v1 chase.
I'm a for it. More cooldowns! Always fun.
and if that 'someone else' does the same?
and if all 4 are uncatchable?
What a terrible idea lol
If they are all "uncatchable" then i dont wanna be the bearer of bad news but honestly
get good
you are clearly doing something wrong
Then it sounds like your fault. You have the power to stop running, take the down, and take the hook state. Guess what? You got two more hook states left. The killer has stopped chasing you. Now you can be rescued, healed, and back on gens while the killer chases someone else.
If the killer hard camps you it's probably because you wasted so much of their time. Just don't.
If the killer hard camps you regardless then they get punished regardless. You win.
If the killer tunnels you after that then its the devs fault for leaving the heavily-hated mechanic in the game since the start.
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I'm just a filthy killer main who only complains about gen speeds and chase times.
I'm just a filthy survivor main who only complains about tunneling and camping.
I have this idea long time ago, as my thinking is to close the gap between newbie & veteran.
But I didnt think about when you on hook, you dont want your team mate walk toward you to save their stamina, and it should not punish survivor for doing Altruism.
Wow imagine the survivour wont stand still and die for you theres an opportunity for the to make plays
its almost as if...
multiplayer games are two parties trying to best each other?
Even the best players die
im not even that much against the suggestion its just the the arguments for implementing it that have been said here are hilarious
Wow what a straw man argument.
I'm arguing for a balancing mechanic, not an instant win button as you'd like to paint it as.
This balancing mechanic would be an awful balancing mechanic and im making fun of you for not realizing that
strawman? no
mockery? yes
Tbf (stepping back a little), this entire suggestion is born from the inequity in such high level survivors going against lower level killers. SBM would solve this issue just as well.
He said that once the gauge depletes, the player is exhausted and has to wait for it to fill again to return to a normal state. He then goes on to state that the reason for this idea would be to put restrictions on the survivor's ability to flee, which he sees as too strong. I don't agree.
If the killer can run infinitely with no restriction, faster than the survivor and with the ability to see the survivor's tracks no less, than the survivor should be able to run infinitely without restriction as well.
They... can...
You're still not understanding what's been suggested.
'Exhausted' is a defined status in the game, it does not mean they're get tired and can't run anymore.
It would make it worse because instead of running inferior perk like dead hard it would just insetivise those players to run sprint burst and remove every single dead zone from the map.
Sometimes maps can spawn really dumb setups and they should be addressed but this would completely ignore that....the actual issue...
and make the experience for those players worse....
this suggestion has to be a bait....
Wow. I love how you think someone else's behavior is my fault. Sorry, that's not how it works - not in ANY aspect of game, or life. The Killer is responsible for their behavior and their choices, not any of the survivors. The only person responsible for your behavior is you. You don't get to shift blame or responsibility to someone else.
ok make all killers have survivors movement speed and remove bloodlust ;)
The argument boils down to "there should be a stamina gauge that changes the current state of the game for survivors, because it's annoying being looped by them for five minutes, followed by perks that add ANOTHER five minutes.
If you guys are so bothered by the trickiness of chasing survivors for minutes on end, then Instead of adding more clutter to the screen with a new meter and altering gameplay elements for the side you don't like, I offer an alternate suggestion: Stop chasing survivors for minutes on end.