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Predated
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313958#Comment_1313958
I mean I get that but you cant expect bhvr to take your word for it. Not sure what platform your on but xbox has the record last 5 minutes option, you could get in a locker after youre off the hook and do it that way. Outside of that not sure what to say, its a ######### situation
True, but the only reason I report otherwise is simply unsportsmanlike behaviour, which, like I said before, is a very broad concept in the first place to a point where person A and person B can completely disagree. For example, I'd say when there are 2 dc's within the first minute and the killer rushes the kills is unsportsmanlike behaviour, because there is no way im gonna get a safety pip from that, yet the killer could do it to end the match quickly so we could have more fun in the next match. Both would claim the other person is being unsportsmanlike for what they do.
So I'd assume me having any different reason out of nowhere should have a small amount of weight in the first place. It's not like I'm reporting people left right and center whenever I was outmatched or anything. I'm literally just calling campers/tunnelers unsportsmanlike(unless the person being camped/tunneled clearly deserved it) and people who selfishly fix a gen before going for an unhook too. I mean, call it blowing off steam but essentially everyone who I report for being unsportsmanlike are simply people who were massive ######### and I dont expect them to be banned. Which I am pretty sure which the unsportsmanlike behaviour option simply is meant for. I cant give a thumbs down otherwise.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313948#Comment_1313948
And how will they know if you reported anyone? The chat doesn't display a message saying this person reported that person.
exactly, and if I say in chat beforehand that I am gonna sandbag a player cus they sandbagged me earlier, they will just report me for that behaviour too
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Record it, send the video to bhvr in email. If its as bad as you say im sure therell be repurcussions
Like I said, by the time I am in a position to record footage without ######### my team over even further tends to be on the hook. Yes, I could have recorded the 10 seconds he was in front of me tbagging and letting me go into second stage, but I was chatting with my mate untill I heard footsteps and by the time I was back I already went into second stage and by the time I got unhooked the killer was coming and I had to run. And the time she was pointing to me for the killer was literally less than a second on my screen.
The issue is that not many instances can be captured in the first place unless you're 100% sure its gonna happen all game. I actually intend to avoid sandbaggers most of the game to get the most fun of the game and it tends to be difficult for someone who decided to sandbag on the spot to find me without aura readings.
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@a_good_player said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313790#Comment_1313790
if you want other players to ruin your games and have no consequence you are free to do so. i wont
The chances of me encountering them again are too tiny, and the chances of other people thinking I'm the toxic one when I finally do encounter someone and reporting me for that are far to great.
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@a_good_player said:
reporting them will literally have zero consequences. the best thing you can do, if you are interested in revenge, is block them and when you find them again in your lobby you troll them and ruin their game.
also, dont try to figure out why people act like #########, because the answer will make you lose even more braincells. just block them and sooner or later you will get your revenge. to this day i have about 100 people in my blocklist, and i found them like 3-4 times. no need to say, that was super satisfying, especially when they were insulting me in the endgame chat
Well, the issue with that is that you breed toxicity and the other players in your match might do the same to you. There is already more than enough toxicity that I encounter on day-to-day gameplay, I dont want to have toxicity exactly directed at me because I wanted revenge.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313638#Comment_1313638
Like I said the first time... You dont have to use ANY tracking perks at all. It just makes since to use perks that synergize with various abilities. Can you tell me any killer that would make better use of the perk stridor than Spirit? I'm not saying Spirit HAS to use Stridor, I'm saying the perk works best when used with her and acts to nullify one of her biggest counters (ironwill). I cant blame a Spirit for using it because it makes perfect since to do so. As far as the Huntress and STBFL example... its bad. A Huntress can recover from throwing a hatchet faster than she can recover from a melee swing with 8 stacks of STBFL, so why bother building for a melee Huntress? Typically people use perks on killers to either synergize with a killer's strengths, or help offset a killer's weakness/the player's weakness. We can talk about build diversity, but you cant expect people to throw on perks that make no sense on a killer for the sake of diversity. I'm not gonna say a survivor should equip selfcare and no mither for build diversity for example, so lets not pretend insidious Wraith makes any more sense.
You can go into a match EXPECTING whatever you want, but you shouldnt go around shaming people for utilizing perks that work best for them just because its common. Personally, the Bamboozle Billy is the first I've really heard of it. Figured if any killer was more likely to run it (other than Clown for obvious reason) it would be Wraith, Myers or Legion due to quicker vaulting kind being apart of their kits.
"As far as the Huntress and STBFL example... its bad. A Huntress can recover from throwing a hatchet faster than she can recover from a melee swing with 8 stacks of STBFL, so why bother building for a melee Huntress?"
Well, like I said to you in an earlier discussion, that is a bit of a problem with her hatchets in the first place. But often as a huntress you're forced to swing if you want a hit because the lack of an angle. You could charge an axe and hope the survivor runs predictably, but it doesnt guarantee a hit. Having a guaranteed hit with a basic swing and being able to throw a hatchet quite fast actually could guarantee a double hit faster than you can get a double hit from a basement. It's not the greatest, especially if you can hit a fly on the other side of the map with a 3 second aura read, but its not the worst either. Its interesting to play against and people wont even be mad. Yet you see yourself the amount of hate huntress is getting for easily getting a double hit without requiring too much skill(seriously, I'd say the recharge time between throws and hits should be affected on distance, the further the distance, the faster huntress can throw/hit). It has potential. Just because its bad on paper, doesnt mean it is bad in practice. Does it make much sense to do so considering her kit? No, but seeing a survivor make a vault within hitting range but not on an angle for hatchet throws and recovering within 0.3 seconds so you can throw a hatchet after them will 100% catch them off guard.
"but you shouldnt go around shaming people for utilizing perks that work best for them just because its common"
Im not shaming people for using a perk just because its common, I'm shaming people for relying on the exact same perk everyone else relies on for no other reason than "its the best perk for this killer". Decisive Strike is a common perk. Bamboozle on Billy is guaranteed, let alone Billy's entire perk set. It's extremely boring to essentially face the exact same build on the exact same killer over and over again. Especially if the killer is a relatively common killer. About 50% of my games are against a Billy or Huntress, they all practically have the exact same load-outs with the only difference being addons used. That's 50% of games that I simply dont want to play anymore because its boring as #########. Like I said, imagine all survivors running the exact same build every single match. You'd get bored of facing the exact same build and playstyle over and over and over again. And the reason for why it's used rather than other builds is purely for elitist reasons. Its all about what's supposed to be better on paper, ignoring all practicality.
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It really depends on the situation. There needs to be a reason for killers to want to check a locker. Going to a generator that clearly has been worked on, but seeing no scratchmarks? They might have walked away, so gotta check around first, if you dont hear any breathing or dont see any distant scratchmarks, they might be in a locker. Or are you in a chase and the scratchmarks magically disappear without you having heard a speedvault: well, they obviously have Quick and Quiet, but did they use the locker or the vault? They likely would have used the locker instead, so you check the locker before Head-On has time to trigger.
The only other reason to check lockers is because of Whispers. Other than that, yeah, lockers are a safe way for a killer to pass you. That doesnt make them underrated in general. Just underused, as you might aswell be hiding in a different corner because you know killers will eventually check lockers, allowing for an easy escape.
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@NopeStillHere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313149#Comment_1313149
Almost took this seriously until I got to "you are running a toxic build". Could you please define these "toxic" builds so we all know who should be reported since "toxicity" is a bannable offense?
irihead huntress with ebony mori and slug perks tends to be defined as a toxic build, forever freddy is quite a toxic build. However, toxicity is defined as toxic behaviour. A toxic build is essentially a build that easily allows toxic behaviour. But just because a build enables toxicity incredibly easy doesnt mean the killer is toxic.
Essentially, facing forever freddy is boring and the people running it are extremely likely to play very toxic when they dont have to do anything themselves. So suiciding when you notice a forever freddy build is completely fine.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313312#Comment_1313312
You can say the same about ANY tracking perk, but that doesnt change the fact that certain perks just synergize better with certain killers. You wouldnt expect a Huntress for example to be running melee based perks for example, or a nurse to be running enduring.
Again, ofcourse. But people tend to mix up builds just to try out different playstyles. Using Stridor on every build on Spirit is essentially using the same playstyle over and over again. Ofcourse a Huntress will have BBQ, however, a Huntress who has Enduring and/or STBFL and gains stacks by hitting people through windows alone, only using hatchets against the obsession, will 100% catch me off guard when she hits me and is able to throw her hatchet less than 1 second later.
Just because its not the most optimal build doesnt mean its boring to run. Catching survivors off guard is my favourite thing to do when I play killer and it consistently ranked me up. Its more fun for survivors when they are expecting 1 build and see a completely different one. The game is about not losing pips, Killer winning conditions are extremely diverse as a Killer could theoretically let everyone escape and still get a double pip. Let alone that survivors tend to have more fun playing against an unpredictable build too. Example: I used Spirit with Bloodwarden and NoED, open the furthest gate as soon as the final gen is meant to pop, pretended to farm so they'd stick around longer, hook someone when the timer is half way-ish and ended up getting a 4k in all cases. They had fun, I had fun and got to kill them exactly the way I wanted to. No need for Stridor at all. Just because it sounds bad doesnt make it bad. And you could claim that it's "trolling" or "messing around". No. I got a 4k by decieving survivors. I could have gotten a 4k by hunting them down and being brutal. But there are more ways to get what you want. That is diversity. Power synergy and playstyle synergy are different synergies. And sometimes doing the unexpected is exactly what throws survivors off. If they expect a bamboozle on a Billy, they will avoid T&L walls and the killer shack. Which can easily be taken advantage off.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Pig and Surveillance? Really? I'm the only person I know who unironically loves that perk and uses it, outside of adorable baby Pigs.
You could also say [Stealth Killer] and A Nurse's Calling, considering the zero TR and relatively short range of the aura.
Its actually quite common. Either Surveillance or Discordance. Sometimes even both.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313226#Comment_1313226
"Iron Will is common, purely because its extremely strong and the only useful counter to Spirit."
I completely disagree. I think the majority of people, myself included, run Iron Will because it allows for better mind games and jukes while looping all killers. I rarely see Spirits these days.
"Calling killer builds "diverse" because different killers have different abilities isnt exactly diverse."
I disagree again. Just because they are diverse because they have different abilities doesn't change the fact that you are still seeing different perks used. Whether it's because of different killer abilities or another reason is irrelevant, they are still using different perks.
"Some for a reason(monstrous shrine doesnt really work). But I have NEVER seen anyone use Cruel Limits and Bamboozle while using a Lery's offering, even though that actually would be a good combo."
You don't see that because it would be stupid to run, not because of a lack of diversity. Cruel Limits is just god awful no matter what map you're on and Bamboozle is good on certain maps, with Lery's not really being one of them. Those two perks, especially on Lery's, would not be a good combo.
"I have NEVER seen anyone use Mindbreaker, Pop and Surveillance together, even though that is actually not a bad combo."
Yes, that is an awful combo.
"The point is, killers tend to try and use the best perk combination that fits their killers and ignore potentially fun to use builds, which leaves very little diversity."
Because most the fun build perks suck. Just because the diversity is forced because the killers have different abilities doesn't mean it isn't diversity. In the end you are still going against different perks from a survivor perspective.
"Because the vast majority of killers are a bit elitist."
I disagree and you have no data to corroborate this at all.
"So there are builds that are extremely good when you're forced to weaken/remove the killers m2 ability. Builds that might be insanely strong. Yet killer mains are too much about "that will never work" to the point that they will never even try it out in the first place."
Because we are talking about rank 1 games against actually GOOD survivors. Not meme'ing at low ranks.
Do you play both sides at rank 1? A lot of these opinions make me think you aren't playing at red ranks because these things you mentioned do work at low ranks where survivors don't know what they're doing, but at rank 1 with competent players these things are not realistically viable if you care about winning at all.
"I completely disagree. I think the majority of people, myself included, run Iron Will because it allows for better mind games and jukes while looping all killers."
So, you basically completely agree with me, because I said simply because its extremely strong. Being a spirit counter is just a plus.
"Just because they are diverse because they have different abilities doesn't change the fact that you are still seeing different perks used. Whether it's because of different killer abilities or another reason is irrelevant, they are still using different perks."
No, just no. Survivors are all practically exactly the same. Killers are not. Diversity in killer abilities does not mean diversity in killer perks. If 1 killer only has 2 builds, that are different from another killer who has 3 builds and another killer that also has 2 builds, all assuming they use all different perks. Thats not a diversity in builds. If you face a Billy, a killer who at this point basically always runs Bamboozle, BBQ, Spirit Fury and Enduring, then a second Billy that runs the exact same build and a third Billy that also runs the exact same build. It doesnt matter if Trapper has 5 builds, that does not make Billy a diverse killer. It basically means that every single time I see a Billy, I know his exact perk set and the only difference would be how good the Billy is at mindgaming. Thats boring as #########. I rather disconnect and go for another match, but I would be punished if I do, even if I face the same Billy build 3 matches in a row. Killer build diversity comes down to the killer, not the whole arrangement of killers.
Now, I do agree that if someone plays Laurie, they are pretty much guaranteed on using DS, while someone playing Bill is practically guaranteed to run BT and Unbreakable, but after unlocking the perk for other survivors, that person would be playing Meg and use the same perks, that person would be playing Feng and use the same perks. Every individual player at least tends to have a different playstyle and a perk set to compliment their playstyle's strengths and reduce their playstyle's weaknesses. With killers, playstyle is practically ignored. Like I said, Monto's build was literally applying a different playstyle to Oni and came with the first new diverse perkbuild for Oni in months. People could literally have used that build on release, but no one did.
"You don't see that because it would be stupid to run, not because of a lack of diversity. Cruel Limits is just god awful no matter what map you're on and Bamboozle is good on certain maps, with Lery's not really being one of them. Those two perks, especially on Lery's, would not be a good combo."
THIS, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN. Yes, Cruel Limits would actually be good on Lery's. Because 1 generator blocks out ALL windows in the surface of 1810 meter² on a map that is "only" 9470 meter² and heavily reliant on windows. There are so many rooms in Lery's that rely on the window vault to work and essentially become a deathtrap. Yet "cruel limits is bad, so it cant work". THAT is the mindset that I am talking about. Vigil was considered awful. But then someone used it together with Fixated, another "awful" perk and an exhaustion perk. And turned 2 "awful" perks into extremely good combo that is used very commonly nowadays. Just like how people used to say that "head-on and vigil is bad and head-on is only good for trolls", yet use it on 2 people, and you can loop the killer around the whole map, consistently stunning him/her, making it very viable. People had an idea, and made that idea work. That mindset is lacking on killers, because, just like you, they instantly sweep the idea under the rug and instantly think its never possible. Let me even make a visual of Cruel Limits' area of effect on a single generator in Lery's:
That is a random generator spawn, essentially blocking 50% of the map. All windows in the red area are blocked(I forgot if pallets were included, I think they were, but I havent been able to confirm it), making it essentially unloopable. All you need to do is push a survivor towards that area and they are #########. On The Game, it actually gets even stronger, because can essentially block the entire downstairs section for 30 seconds with practically any generator done. You could even combine it with Tinkerer to get the maximum value out of it. And the best part is? Survivors wont be able to do anything against it. The amount of pallets in Lery is relatively small, in the case they dont get blocked(if they dont, they should, tbh, the perk includes vault locations and a pallet is a vault location). There is a reason why the range got nerfed from 32 meters to 24. because otherwise, you'd be able to block half the vaulting spots on Lery's.
"Yes, that is an awful combo"
Uhuh, thats why the average match I use that combo against rank 1 survivors, I get 3k's. Again, elitist mindset.
"In the end you are still going against different perks from a survivor perspective."
No, wrong. You're just going against a different killer. If all billys use the same perk build, you're just facing the same billys. If all legions use the same perk build, you're just facing the same legions. That is killer diversity, not perk diversity. Perk diversity is based on the character's uniqueness. Survivors are anything but unique. There are some outliers, like blendette, Bill, Jane and Ace that are easier/harder to spot or hear, but that's about it. You cannot look at any survivor and be able to predict what they are running before you encounter them. Yet all I need to hear is a chainsaw and I know exactly who I am facing, what he is running and what I can do to counterplay that. Perk diversity is being unable to know what perks are being ran untill you figure them out. If you know, not predict, but actually *know* exactly what perk(s) is/are being used, it isnt perk diversity. You can claim it is, but you'd be wrong. Would you claim that a Karen in a supermarket demanding a manager because she wants her expired coupon to work is diversity because you have different customers? No, because everytime you see a Karen, you know exactly that they will grab an expired coupon, call the manager and be proven wrong. Karens are not diverse people. There might be diverse customers, but that doesnt make Karens diverse. Just like killer diversity doesnt mean perk diversity.
"I disagree and you have no data to corroborate this at all."
Most of your comment proved you wrong.
"Because we are talking about rank 1 games against actually GOOD survivors. Not meme'ing at low ranks. Do you play both sides at rank 1? A lot of these opinions make me think you aren't playing at red ranks because these things you mentioned do work at low ranks where survivors don't know what they're doing, but at rank 1 with competent players these things are not realistically viable if you care about winning at all."
Yes, I play rank 1 both sides. I try to use diverse build on the killers that I play. Pig is my favourite so far because she has a broader selection of perks that compliment her own powers. But I've used perks that would be "bad" and made them easily work. Iron Maiden on Doctor might not sound good, untill you realize that survivors often try to hide in lockers because doctors dont tend to run Iron Maiden. Because normally, it would be useless, but in this case, it guarantees someone to scream if they managed to hide from the shock while they are within my range considering the shock only works in the TR. On paper, its bad, but in practice, its much better than you'd think. Survivors are forced to take the madness and scream, or hide in a locker to avoid the madness and still scream. Since survivors dont enjoy being exposed near the killer, they tend to stay out, making them easier to keep in T3, slowing down the game massively. Just because something sounds bad on paper, thinking of all the things that could go wrong which would heavily outweigh the things that could go right, doesnt mean its bad in practice. STBFL on paper is extremely good, but can be extremely useless in practice when survivors know how to keep their distance. However, STBFL is often considered bad on a Billy, unless you consider that you can easily m1 people when they vault and never lose stacks while chasing the obsession. You can really catch survivors off guard while you have 6+ stacks and can rev your chainsaw before they can reach the next looping tile. Doesnt make it the best perk on Billy, ofcourse, but surprising a survivor out of nowhere always works in your favor. And yeah, it might not work against optimal SWF's. Granted. But only 1% of games are optimal SWF's. So why are you building around optimal SWF's when you yourself said you completely disagreed with me using Iron Will as a potential counter to Spirit because "I rarely see Spirits these days.". Why care so much about the best of the best in 1 case, but disagree against the best of the best in the opposing case? You're a great example of why I consider Killer mains elitist. You contradict your own statements so often and dont even realize it. Yes, some builds are not the most optimal builds. But you dont need the most optimal builds to win. Yet almost all killers constantly run the most optimal builds, just in that 1% case that they actually face an optimal SWF, and are then laughing at survivors who run Calm Spirit in that 1% case they face a Doctor.
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@OniKobayashi said:
If it works well for that Killer, then it's boring? It's also boring running perks that don't get any usage during the entire match, which in turn means they go back to using what works best for them.
Its boring to get the exact same perk on the exact same killer every single match, yes. I mean, imagine every single survivor using DS. Not just 1 in a team, not once one game and twice the other game, LITERALLY every single survivor every single game. That's boring. You'd have to slug everyone if 1 minute hasnt gone past or eat 20 seconds of stun every single match. It would be boring AF.
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@LordGlint said:
Alot of these is just because certain perks combo well with a killer's power/stats. Nurses calling is naturally going to combo better with a killer that has a naturally smaller TR. Who wouldve thought that the perk that boosts volume would be used on the killer heavily reliant on sound? Thats crazy, lol.
Spirit doesnt really need Stridor tho. You can literally run 0 addons and no stridor and still consistently get 4k's. Breathing alone tends to be loud enough to find people. I mean, if you're looking for people based on sounds, you will more easily hear them anyway. The only reason I see on using Stridor is literally for people with hearing problems. Just like Bloodhound is for people who have a form of being red colorblind. It's actually extremely similar to using bloodhound on Oni. You already can track survivors with the orbs, using bloodhound is simply overkill.
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@Blueberry said:
DS, BT, Unbreakable and Dead Hard.
Mix up Unbreakable for Iron Will here and there and now you've got like 90% of my matches.
There's overall much more perk diversity on killers. Not to say their perk diversity is good by any means, just better than it is on survivor.
I rarely see that build tho. Sure, maybe 1 survivor might, but I have rarely seen 2 or more survivors run that build. Iron Will is common, purely because its extremely strong and the only useful counter to Spirit.
In my average game as killer and survivor, survivors tend to have more creative builds. I'd say in the span of 100 games, I encounter almost every survivor perk at least once. They arent always good uses, and sometimes terrible(looking at you, claudettes using selfcare without botany knowledge when the killer is running sloppy, dying light, coulrophobia and/or thana, you're literally wasting so much time). Yet in the span of 400 games, excluding my own. I dont even see half the killer perks.
Sure, if someone has DS, odds are 50% that they run Unbreakable. Sure, if someone runs Spine Chill, there is about a 70% that they run Sprint Burst too. But overall, survivor builds are more diverse than killers. The only reason for diversity in killers in the first place is their ability. You wouldnt run Distressing on pretty much any killer, but you will almost always see it on Doc. You would never run Sloppy Butcher on Billy or Huntress, but almost always see it on Trapper. Calling killer builds "diverse" because different killers have different abilities isnt exactly diverse. Sure, some perks will never really work on a certain killer. Enduring or Bamboozle on Nurse would essentially be useless. Whispers on Doc has practically no use. Play With Your Food on Legion would essentially be worthless. Overwhelming Presence on any stealth killer is essentially useless. But even ignoring those situations, there still are a pile of unused perks. Some for a reason(monstrous shrine doesnt really work). But I have NEVER seen anyone use Cruel Limits and Bamboozle while using a Lery's offering, even though that actually would be a good combo. I have NEVER seen anyone use Mindbreaker, Pop and Surveillance together, even though that is actually not a bad combo.
The point is, killers tend to try and use the best perk combination that fits their killers and ignore potentially fun to use builds, which leaves very little diversity. Survivors, while they do sometimes use the best perk combinations, also tend to use more fun combinations aswell. Just look at Monto's Oni build. That was literally using perks that you would normally never use on an Oni, or on any killer for that matter. Yet why took it so long for anyone to find that combo in the first place? Because the vast majority of killers are a bit elitist. You simply have builds that work and builds that dont. Any new perkbuild that might work wont even be considered, because "it wont work". And when it does, someone is a massive genius for actually trying something new.
Dont think that? Well, lets look what was said about Oni's Bloodglove by a lot of killer mains(including Otz, who normally is the one who is like "they might see it, but that doesnt mean they are smart enough to avoid it" in many cases):
"Survivors can just see the blood orbs and dodge them, making the addon useless"
"Blood orbs disappear when I use Oni's ability, so its bad to use on Oni because I might aswell be an M1 killer"
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. You have addons that practically negate the Killer's m2 ability in favour of being a stronger M1 killer. Even Nurse's Matchbox works great with Jenner's Last Breath. Amanda's Letter practically removes Pig's Traps in exchange of being a better stealth killer. GF's Caught on Tape practically removes the use of leaning and stalking, but makes crouch stalking much more efficient. Even Bubba and Billy's speedlimiter can be used for builds that normally wouldnt fit on them, especially because Billy keeps his running speed and Bubba can still hit multiple survivors at once(altho, Bubba's speedlimiter SHOULD speed his movementspeed to a point where he can actually use it). Let alone that Begrimed Chains actually get a use with speedlimiter, while they otherwise would be useless(I mean, you hit someone, walk them to a hook that takes 10 seconds away, having them hang on the hook for about 30 seconds, then probably healing up for 16 seconds, already wasted 60 seconds from the addon, and if you happen to catch them within 60 seconds of being unhooked, you need to slug them first before hooking again, wasting even more time). So there are builds that are extremely good when you're forced to weaken/remove the killers m2 ability. Builds that might be insanely strong. Yet killer mains are too much about "that will never work" to the point that they will never even try it out in the first place.
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@Rydog said:
I don't understand why Behaviour doesn't punish hook suicides the same as disconnects. It makes no sense and legitimizes griefing, because it amounts to nothing more than a penalty-free DC.
Just had a game where two players -- red rank players! -- suicided on-hook inside of the first two minutes. Then, somehow, I'm the one who gets de-pipped for it. It's unbelievable how maliciously negligent Behaviour is with certain aspects of this game, and this is most certainly one of them.
Honestly, the whole DC without penalty was there for a reason: you used to have old dying light(25% slowdown to everyone once the obsession is dead) and mori without hook requirements. Literally killers would look up the obsession with billy or iri huntress and mori them. That would slow down the game by removing a survivor within 30 seconds of the match(talk about toxic) AND slow down the remaining of the game by 25%. And the worst part? Killers actually double pipped from those scenarios, while ALL survivors lost 1(safety pips didnt exist back then either). Killers were literally given a kit to be as toxic as they could be and be rewarded for that. So whenever a killer mori'd an obsession within the first minute of the game, everyone else simply dc's to force the killer to depip too. I mean, what is the point of playing a game where you're forced to depip anyway? Then killers came complaining that survivor dc's shouldnt depip the killer and that it was toxic.(yet survivors are the entitled ones for not wanting to depip every single match they play against a billy or iri huntress, right?). Let alone that people who have relatively instable internet would get punished for having that. Nowadays, that doesnt happen as much, and DC's were used to simply opt out against certain killers(I did too, I mean, 10 huntresses in a row with ebony mori and iri head? No thank you, boring as #########, I rather find a game without a huntress)
Considering there are killers who slug, camp and tunnel while having instadown addons/instadown abilities AND a mori. Basically you have 3 options:
- keep on playing, getting saved but instantly hunted down and mori'd, playing for 40 seconds longer at best and giving you a depip
- DC, losing a pip and having to wait 5 minutes for the next match
- suicide on hook, giving you a depip
Ofcourse you would go for option 3.
"Just had a game where two players -- red rank players! -- suicided on-hook inside of the first two minutes."
Basically, the way I see it: you are running a toxic build or are playing extremely toxic, you're the reason for a DC/suicide in the first place. I have never had people suicide unless it was on accident, because I didnt give them a reason to. I've only had people DC a few times when I played my extremely annoying doc build, that would be a very toxic build if I were to cash into it. But I enjoy having killer games where I can sit back and relax too. If I am running a build to sit back and relax, why the ######### would I want to give survivors a reason to suicide? Stop camping, stop tunneling, keep your mori's to slow down a game when you need it to, rather than using it to force a survivor to depip.
As for punishing suicides. no, accidental suicides happen. They happen more often than internet outages and it is a way for survivors to "legally" opt out of a game. Simply dont give them a reason to suicide, then you wont depip.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1303360#Comment_1303360
Not true, I've Sprint Bursted against non stealth killers and still got hit by them. Albeit by dedicated server hits or them finding a way to gain distance they wouldn't normally be able to. GhostFace generally is hard to see, especially on dark maps. He can get hits before you SB. Unless you're on a gen wide open and/or the killer is just charging straight at you out in the open, which would be stupid for a stealth killer in the first place. They generally come from around trees connected to gens or other such ways. If you don't have spine chill you won't always know you're going to be hit.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1303358#Comment_1303358
Usually when you hear GhostFace's boots it's too late. The only stealth killer who you can reliably hear is Myers or Wraith. Also there are FAR too many gens that have a lot of blocked off sights. There are a few in the open, and on some maps that are just bad for stealth killers(Dead Dog Saloon) there isn't much of a reason to not use Sprint Burst, but that's all randomized and nothing you'd know before going in unless you played a map offering. Most gens have things blocking your view from some or many angles. Any stealth killer who isn't just walking right at you will likely get a hit if you don't have Spine Chill, Sprint Burst or not.
Like I said, there is only 1 gen that I can think off where a stealth killer can get a hit on you before you could leave with sprintburst. And thats the gen in the bathroom of The Game.
Every single other gen allows you to get notified from the stealth killer before they get too close for SB to not work. Even Thompsons house, which would be a close second to The Game, allows you to hear or spot Ghostface before he gets close. Every other gen either has a peek hole(peek strips if its wooden planks), forces the killer to walk close so can hear them, or allows you to sit on a generator spot that allows you to react before the killer comes in. A stealth killer could technically still get a hit on you, but they'd instantly have to predict your exact path, walk towards where the closest distance is gonna be and lunge before its too late. Which in some cases is easier than others, granted, but the first time you catch a survivor as a stealth killer tends to be the most important moment of the match, because 1. you reveal that there is a stealth killer, making survivors more aware which can heavily ruin your game and 2. You dont place a single hit, and thus might aswell have walked in with a beer and chat with survivors instead.
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@Yamaoka said:
Freddy and Ruin? I would have expected to read Freddy and Pop Goes The Progress 🤔
Which actually would be the better perk on Freddy, but if you use Pop on Freddy with any decent addons, you're just an ######### tbh. At least people who play Freddy tend to have the heart not to ######### people over too much.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1311542#Comment_1311542
I think you took that out of context basically a survivor can indeed follow a killer as you can see a killer from a pretty good distance also trapper is huge you can see him bend over from very far the survivor wouldn't have to be right up on him to see him placing traps with that being said that does not change the point made in that post survivors can deny his power with perks and by disarming a trap even with all his traps he wouldn't be op. Also keep in mind survive with friends exist.
Not really, I get that its sometimes hard placing traps with survivors seeing it. Same applies to hag. Yet there are many traps you can place without being seen.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1309008#Comment_1309008
If you think giving him all his traps is to strong you are sadly mistaken a survivor can follow him around and disarm his traps making them useless until he takes time to reset them the idea he would be stronger then say billy or nurse is completely false while his power on paper is strong its different in game i highly doubt trapper would be this unstoppable killer seeing as how you can still disarm a trap and still trap tech i mean seriously think about it not much would really change about trapper other then the fact he wouldn't have to run to a corner to pick a trap up.
"a survivor can follow him around and disarm his traps making them useless until he takes time to reset them"
If you let a survivor follow you constantly while they are disabling traps, which take twice as long as placing them, without being able to catch them, that is your fault.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308856#Comment_1308856
Again the point is not how good someone is with trapper i 4k pretty consistently with him also STBFL is insanely strong on him but that still does not excuse how outdated running to a corner to pick a trap up is.
Being good at a killer is accepting the downsides they have and adjusting your playstyle around them but even then it still does not excuse how trappers issues are still a very big eye sore again running to the corner to pick a trap up is outdated and needs adjusting.
But that is the thing, if trapper didnt require time to go out of his way to pick up traps, he'd be insanely strong. It might be boring and/or tedious, and he isnt the most fun killer to try new builds on, but lets be realistic here. Even before trappers traps were indestructible, trapper was incredibly strong. The only downside was that instead of 8 traps, you probably worked with 4-5 traps instead, because the far away traps were probably being destroyed before you could even get there.
The only way I could see trapper being changed where his traps are fairly close to access/retrievable from lockers, is by massively increasing the chances of getting out of the trap. Like, bumping it up from 25% to at least 75% without an animation forcing the survivor to stand still for a second. Traps being faster to destroy and once they are destroyed, the trapper would need to get a new one from a locker. Which, while making trapper less repetative, does change is appeal too. I want a killer that takes some strategy to play, while I also want a killer that is semi-brainless during chases(which, sadly, too many killers are at the moment). And I also would love a glass cannon killer that is incredibly strong in a 1v1 with 0 map pressure. Which dont exist nowadays, because some killers(coughcoughbillyandhuntresscoughcough) who have insane 1v1 are also given a ton of map pressure capabilities.
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
But Trapper can't have all his traps at the start but keep in mind pyramid head can deny ds and flashlight saves he can hit you from ranged and he has a built in insta hook/game delay ability and mori someone as well i mean i get its licensed but where is the same energy for the face of the game who could use something else for his kit.
Im not saying hes op or anything im just simply asking how come he can have all this stuff that makes a killer good but yet trapper has to waste time running to a corner to pick a trap up like where is the love for the face of the game i mean they said they reworked freddy and doc to make them better so how come trapper and wraith continue to be ignored and when you ask the dev's about it the same answer is always given "trapper would be to strong with all his traps" looks at pyramid head and chuckles.
As a player who plays trapper a lot, I do kinda agree with you that the traps spawn too far apart. But survivors dont always look where they go. Using both Trapper bags where I start with 4 traps and spawn next to a 5th one. I can easily get my first kill before survivors get 1 hook. Because they all come flocking to the places that I trapped.
The window trap at the killer shack, how cliche it is, catches 90% of survivors by surprise. Like, they think I spend the first 30 seconds of the match picking my nose or something. Nah, while those guys were doing their first 1-2 gens, I trapped a 3-gen, the killer shack and have some spare traps leftover just in case I need to secure the basement.
The average kills I get as a trapper are higher than any other killer, simply because even when its incredibly obvious there is a trap in the hallway, they cant get past it. So they are forced to eat a hit, dead hard, or fall in the trap and get picked up. Let alone that its insanely easy to get STBFL on trapper. So why he does need a tiny change, with his traps spawning closer to the center rather than the outskirts, he doesnt need a big change.
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@coppersly said:
I disagree.
It's nor primarily run because it's an escape from a hook, it's run because it's a free escape from being downed. Hook distance is only useful in this conversation to distract from that real issue.
You're not meant to escape by wiggling out, it's primary purpose is to force the killer to hook you nearby where you were downed instead of bringing you to the basement every single time. If all it took was Flip-Flop to have a good chance at AVOIDING hooks altogether the meta would be wiggle-out loadouts mixed with sabotage set-ups. But it's not. Right now it's all about second chances [DS, DH, BT, etc...] and making it take as much time and hits as possible to down someone.
I agree, flipflop alone shouldnt affect wriggling to a point of countering being hooked. But Flipflop being fully charged kinda should have some impact. I mean, it would be a punishment for leaving people slugged. Let alone that if someone else used breakout to aid in wriggling, that still means the killer has 20 meters reach.
@dangitben said:
I used to think there were too many hooks until i started playing as a killer after getting burnt out on survivor. If it were easy to wiggle out or if every time someone was carried it was a close call it would basically break the game. Wiggling is to punish a killer who didnt notice a closer hook, and as coppersly put, a deterrent to throw people in the basement
I also play killer, and even with current wiggling, I can easily reach the basement in a lot of cases where I dont think I should be able to. I got someone from halfway Bradham's School to the basement. Maybe he was at 99.9% on escaping, but going from halfway of the map to the basement without Agi or Iron Will is simply too much. Essentially, the killer already should want to hook a survivor as close as possible to not waste any time walking to a further hook in the first place. Giving the killer the ability to essentially walk halfway across the map and still have enough time to hook is ridiculous. If the wiggle meter is meant as a way to force killers away from far away hooks, then why can I still reach 50% of the hooks from practically any point on the map?
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There are some issues with this too:
- there will be people who will tryhard in casual because they know people try playing casual there, increasing basic toxicity.
- having a certain sided map is sometimes necessary. Basically, a balanced map is 45-55% winrate, whatever a win is established as, anything below 45% would be killer sided and anything above 55% would be survivor sided. There is not a single map where the rates go higher or lower than 60 and 40 respectively, meaning there never is a guarantee of escape, nor is there ever a guarantee on a kill.
I think what kept the dbd toxicity relatively low, is exactly because ranked and casual are in the same kind of matchmaking. Just look at Overwatch for example: extremely popular game with casual and ranked seperated. You have people who are extremely high ranked simply create a new account to massacre in casual games, just for the lolz. That turned Overwatch in probably the most toxic community with the most salt in the entire gaming industry.
The mmr being added, based on events that happened in game(I do hope they somehow calculate latency to the mix, because that ######### over many games), at least will even out the odds again. However, the downside to that being: if I play with a noob friend, I tend to play uber casual because the killer will most likely be a baby killer. Meaning I would likely give the killer a kill when I otherwise would not. Which now would heavily impact my MMR, because losing against a killer that is of a much lower MMR will impact your MMR a lot, while also giving the killer a massive MMR boost when he or she shouldnt get one yet. Which would be something that people now would have to consider.
Personally, I think the MMR system should be togglable. To only find players that are within your MMR range or simply find players in general. Because playing against high skilled players when you're a noob ends up giving you a bigger skill boost, and personally I enjoy facing noob killers as a survivor aswell. Because funnily enough, because they have no idea what they are doing, they end up catching me off guard a lot and getting a hit where a killer that's at my skill level would not.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I believe the devs have said before that they like shorter games, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Certainly we don't want 20 minute games, so that's not what I'm saying. As someone who mostly plays killer but also plays survivor, there is nothing more fun in this game than looping a killer. But there's so many games where I get almost zero interaction with the killer, maybe getting hooked once but escaping nonetheless.
All survivors have to do is hold a button on a generator and they're through the gates. The 2 second nerf on gens in the recent update did nothing. I thought games with pre-nerf Ruin were the perfect place. Survivors didn't have to gen rush, and killers didn't have to slug. But nowadays you have to do those things, because if you don't you fall too far behind. The gens go so fast that the killer has to assume they've gotta play hardcore from the get go, which means slugging when necessary and not having empathy for someone who just got off he hook. If we slowed down gens a little more, it would make a big difference.
There's been a noticable increase in killers using NOED and survivors using Adrenaline. They use them because those are the best catch up perks, and are usually going to get use because of how quickly 5 gens can be done. I see survivors complain that gens take too long, but it sounds like entitlement since those complaints were non-existent before the Ruin nerf. In other words, they see that gen speed is now buffable and nerfable, and they want it in their favor.
But the main point is that killers have the most fun when they get lots of chases in, and survivors have the most fun when they get good chases in. There isn't time for such chases when gens fly as quick as they do. I guess we should consider another gen speed nerf or a second survivor objective. That way the games will be slower, more chill, and more enjoyable.
"I thought games with pre-nerf Ruin were the perfect place. Survivors didn't have to gen rush, and killers didn't have to slug."
That was the problem tho, killers didnt have to slug, but still did. And when they did, old ruin was too powerful of a perk to go alongside it. They could have nerfed slugging instead, but they didnt.
"I see survivors complain that gens take too long, but it sounds like entitlement since those complaints were non-existent before the Ruin nerf. In other words, they see that gen speed is now buffable and nerfable, and they want it in their favor."
Not exactly. Doing a gen with 3 people and 4 people practically makes no difference. We dont want the 80 seconds to be nerfed, we want the secondary times to be buffed. Lets explain why:
Splitting up gens fully, allows survivors to do 4 gens in 80 seconds. Which is why 1 person distracting the killer while 3 gens are being worked on at the same time is the most "broken" way of fixing gens, 3 generators in 80 seconds. However, why do people do that? Because doing 3 gens together with 3 people takes 114 seconds. A whooping 34 seconds longer. Having more than 2 people on a generator is not efficient at all. The only reason why people do a 2/1 gen split rather than a 1/1/1 gen split, is because it notifies the killer in 47 seconds that a gen is done, and where it is done. Potentially giving him a reason to chase the chased person a bit less just to contemplate what happened. Then the 2nd and 3rd gen pop 33 and 47 seconds later respectively, having done 3 gens in 94 seconds rather than 80, while having forced the killer to make the choice on continuing the chase or going after one of us. I mean, we're not pressured to go off the gens.
I'm not saying the co-op speeds need to be buffed to a point where its faster or as fast as. Especially considering toolboxes and Prove Thyself are a thing. But vanilla times alone are just too awful to be doing together with 3 people. Would you spend 20-34 seconds extra doing an objective for no other reason other than to be nice? At least doing a gen with 2 people has a massive BP reward in return, but 3 and 4 people on 1 gen dont give any more BP than doing it with 2 people. Let alone that doing a gen with 3 people actually gets punished: both in emblems and in bloodpoints. So at most, you see people doing gens with 2 people.
Solo gen times arent too long, co-op gentimes are simply too long, are not as rewarding and are not encouraged. Either encourage co-op times a lot by increasing BP and emblem points, or buff co-op times. That alone would significantly slow the game down, because right now, every survivor needs to do 1.25 gens to make sure that everyone gets an iridescent lightbringer emblem, 6000 points and can escape in 6-7 minutes on average, but if you do 4 gens with 3 people, you only get silver lightbringer, only about 4000 points and escape in 10+ minutes if the killer gets some pressure after that.
TL;DR:
Its simply not worth doing gens together, that needs to be buffed. Solo gens are fine as is.
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@Soapbar said:
Generator Repair speed is fine. It's gen regression speed that is a problem. If you don't have PGTW then kicking a gen is literally a detriment to you 99% of the time. 320 Seconds to regress a generator from 99% to 0. That's over 5 minutes. Solo gen repair speed is 80 seconds. That's ridiculous. I say increase gen regression from 320 seconds to 240 or maybe even 160. That's still a decent amount of time but it would allow Killer a lot more freedom in pressuring gens.
You got Ruin for that. And before you complain that its not fair to use a perk to do something that should be in the base game, remember, survivors have to use unbreakable to pick themselves up. Survivors have to use DS to not have to worry about the wiggle timer because Flip-Flop is meant to help wiggling but its not even good enough at doing that.
So yeah, I would be okay with gen regression speeds being faster, if wiggling is reworked with a base flipflop, if we can pick ourselves up without being forced to run specific perks(although, the new one is at least worth using). Its easy to complain about gen regression, but its literally needed, because there are so many other things around it that suck more than gen regression speeds.
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@Shocktober said:
It would be nice to not have to run corrupt on every non S tier killer to buy myself another ~30 seconds at the start of the match. Against a good red rank team losing the first gen for my first hook is almost like clockwork, even if the first chase is borderline perfect.
On a low mobility killer it's common to not even be able to walk over to a gen to pop it in time.
SWF teams can already get the gens done super fast, but i've seen the sweaty ones also come in rocking a survivor sided map offering along with multiple socket swivel commodious toolboxes + BNPs. I had an Oni game recently where the first gen popped in under 30 seconds (looking at corrupt as a timer).
I had a deathslinger game today against a SWF where at least half the chases were actually perfect, landed shot into landed shot. The other half were probably under 30-40 seconds and that was still barely enough to get me a 4k with an ebony mori.
All that said, when you are playing solo Q and your team is pepega, even getting 3 gens done so you can key out can seem like a huge accomplishment.
Well, yeah, the earlier the game, the easier it is to do gens. Having 1 hook for the first gen is actually perfect.
Killers think like once they are able to have 0 gens done that they did it perfectly. No, having 5 gens is not part of your objective. You can get iridescent gatekeeper with 2 gens left. Having 1 gen done for 1 hook is fine, because by the time you have 5 hooks, they'd only have done 3 gens. Especially if you pick which gen you dont want to patrol early game, because its a "free gen" for survivors in exchange of giving you more map pressure.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1304267#Comment_1304267
Aren't that the only counters to top tier killers rn? That's why they're considered good. If you don't want to go against spirit every match you should accept powerful killers.
Mindgaming? No. You can counter a billy by using a tree to turn. A billy cant use a tree to turn. You can counter a huntress long distance by side stepping and while she is hard to counter up close(impossible if you're forced to vault), you at least can choose to early drop a pallet to gain distance.
Spirit's problem is that even without addons, she is extremely strong. I dont want killers that match spirit and freddy in being as easier to play than survivors. Killers are supposed to be harder to play than survivors. If a killer is easier to play than survivor, then they should be able to recieve damage from survivors.
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@Danu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1304714#Comment_1304714
In fairness I cant play pc so I'm judging off footage I've seen so far and I've seen both sides doing well and struggling. PH is VERY strong at hooks and saves as there's pretty much a guarenteed hit on one survivor at the very least but I've also seen survivors react very well to dodging his special so yeah I'd still stick with the mentality that it's too early to properly judge.
Yeah, the thing is guaranteed hits in places where there shouldnt be one. Having a guaranteed hit because a survivor greeds for a pallet is fine, having a guaranteed hit when vaulting through a window is fine, having a guaranteed hit through a wall that is easy to predict in the average game? Not really fine.
PH is easier to dodge at very high skill, but the average skilled survivor, its just a free hit.
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@Flatskull said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1305173#Comment_1305173
"Looping is part of survivor gameplay, if you cant loop, there is no reason to get out and distract the killer. Having a hard time looping a specific killer and being unable to loop are 2 massively different things"
You can loop this killer, you can't just loop him as much. You are eventually pushed off the loop if he decides to use his power and killer should have that kind of pressure in such a chase. Then he still uses up meter to do so.
You're not meant to distract this killer. You're meant to hide. Just like with doctor you're meant to not to overly rely on stealth. With PH you're not meant to overly rely on the safety of loops and pallets.
"Like what? run into you to tank a hit to be able to go to the next pallet? There is nothing a survivor can do without windows and pallets. Looping a piece of furniture to buy time literally is making a play other than windows and pallets."
Run away. You're meant to run away. Loop once, twice, tops and then try to jape the killer direction or drop a pallet and run. Bolt it. You're meant to be escaping the killer. It is a killer. They are going to kill you, that is why you are in a chase. It's boing as hell to loop, I'm not blaming survivors for looping. Looping is a side effect of empty maps which SHOULD be filled with more things survivors can interact with. But no one enjoys looping. If you enjoy looping that speaks more of how boring survivor game play overall.
I don't want to be punished with mind numbingly running around the same object for poor map design. You have options, run away, try to hide, jape, use of certain perks like sprint burst. I do agree you should have more options than you have and maybe PH should of been introduced after some more interactables were put down...hell..they should of introduce a massive map update of interactables when legion was announced in my opinion.
But looping is boring. I'm happy to see it being curtailed with breakable walls and anti-looping powers. You have a 360 camera, plot a path instead of buying time with loops. Get that killer far away from the working gen if he's chasing you. If anything that should help with ph. Since his cage...from my understanding makes you spawn on the otherside of the map to him. If you get him far away you basically cage spawn near your allies for a fast safe.
In theory.
"This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay."
Feather Weight and urban evasion. There you go. I fixed your forever crouching problem for you while retaining most of your stealth. You got two options: hide and think about spots you can avoid the killer as they slowly close in on you. Or mindlessly make noise notification and then run around the same object for up to 3 to 4 times.
One is clearly more fun. It's the former. One has tension, the other one removes all form of tension since we all know that killer can't do anything until his blood lust kicks in and even then it rarely helps.
I respect where you're coming from with lobby reveal and to an extent I agree. A lot of killers get insane advantages because survivors have no ability to prepare their perks. But this will make SWF nightmarish since they would all comm and insta-team build to counter your killer. Same thing with a killer that can see a sruvivor.
It would suck to have a team based gen rush. Then keep running into discord and Pop over and over every time you run that build. Also it would lead to killers tunneling people with perks that they might conclude are attributing to the gen rush.
Heads up. I say gen rush just as iin...the gens are rushing out. Not as in "Oh, my god. those survivors are doing gens. STOP, you toxic ninnies"
"Problem being: survivors dont know which killer they will be facing untill the game starts. BBQ isnt the best detection perk tho. Its a good one and the double bloodpoints at the end of the match make it overall more rewarding, but once you own all the perks and have plenty of addons, you have better perks. Like Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, I'm All Ears(which is gonna make Executioner insane), Thrilling Tremors and Surveillance are all better information perks than BBQ. I'd say even Gearhead could be a better information perk. Especially since BBQ can so easily be countered with vanilla mechanics. While all previous mentioned perks cannot."
Most of those aren't detection perks. I'm all Ears is straight up the best detection perk there is...at chasing. But it's probably really the only chase orientated detection perk. It will definately be insane on PH. I agree but it's good on everyone, really. Gear head is poo poo, like utterly. BBQ may be counterable but most of the time most survivors will not hide when someone is hooked and even if they do it's rare that they all hide. If even one is revealed it's doingi ts job very well for something killers got to do to win the game.
Well, used to. Before the cage.
Good. It makes survivors want to mix up builds and variables more. One of the funnest thing this game has going for it is the perk builds you can come up with from the insane to the totally silly. We all got to roll with what we hope will be best before drop in on either side.
Killer can invest in injury perks and find that everyone has resillience and he's actually helping the gen rush. That's DBD, baby. That's DBD. A survivor can drop in with team based perks and get a PH.
It's annoying and reminds me of Xcom but I don't see it changing.
"You can loop the killer, you cant loop him as much"
I massively disagree with this. If the killer has any gamesense, you cant loop him at all. The cooldowns and charge times are too small to make any looping a reality. Especially since I'm All Ears is probably gonna be one of the strongest, if not the strongest perk to run on PH. It's gonna be essentially why T&L walls are gonna be dead tiles against a Billy because there is a 99.9% chance of him running Bamboozle. I'm not saying PH's kit is necessarily overpowered, but with the current times, it is. Essentially everything is a deadzone in theory. I mean, lets take a nurse, in theory, you cant use pallets against her, however, if you time things correctly and mindgame properly, you still could use pallets against her. Even against a huntress, you could drop a pallet before she is able to get an angle on you to increase distance. Even against a Freddy you could use a pallet in your favor. Against PH tho, the only way I see pallets working is dropping them before he chases you and vault those pallets before he is in range to create distance. Which is extremely impactful on the game in general as most pallets arent that strong. Right now, PH's full potential isnt reached yet, and counterplay is little to none due to him just having been released on the PTB. So like all killers on release, ofcouse he is gonna be extremely strong untill counterplay has been developed, but at least during release you know there is a 90% chance of you facing PH and you can counterbuild him specifically. My problem lies after the release hype has died down, he'll be even stronger, especially considering he both has a ranged attack, and still has 115% movementspeed.
"you're eventually pushed off the loop if he decides to use his power and killer should have that kind of pressure"
I agree, but Trapper has that ability by placing or faking a trap. Billy and Bubba have the ability to quickly destroy the pallet. Let alone that its gonna be fairly easy to get people tormented in most looping scenario's.
"run away"
thats the problem, there is nowhere to run to. And yeah, some loops are incredibly boring. At least T&L walls have tons of interaction, which is why I hate bamboozle billy, because its literally the only structure that is fun to mindgame at. It can be incredibly rewarding if a killer mindgames better than a survivor there and its incredibly rewarding if you outplay a killer there. Considering the only way to truly escape a killer is to have a pallet that literally forces the killer to take a massive detour, looping boring safe structures is literally the only way to force a killer to give up. I mean, a killer shouldnt waste 1 minute of his time chasing a survivor when he could down another survivor in the same time, so looping is a way for a survivor to get a killer to give up the chase and go after someone else. It's pretty much the only way.
"try to hide"
This would be nice, if there actually was a good way to hide. In F13, you at least could hide under a bed or in a closet and it would take enough time to get out and run away without 1 million scratchmarks following you. The reason to hide is so you have an oppertunity to run. In DBD, this isnt an option. The time it takes a killer to check an empty locker is just barely enough to go for a speedy escape, letting the killer know exactly where you were, leaving behind scratchmarks, letting the killer know exactly where you went. So if you are in a chase, there is no way you can hide from a killer, even if you gained some distance.
"Im happy to see it being curtailed with breakable walls and anti-looping powers"
I agree, but in the current gamestate, its simply too overpowered to implement, I am not against giving a free hit if a survivor does something what they shouldnt do, and im all for having a punishment for survivors looping 1 structure for too long, but in that case, why not simply apply deep wounds when a survivor is already injured? Why not block windows instead that would force a survivor to run away? Why a long range attack that in most maps is essentially a free hit? I have the same issue with huntress, because the only real counters to her ability are very long distance or walls, yet even in walls she can charge a hatchet fast enough to make vaults useless. If huntress had a slight larger charge requirement for her to throw an axe, then at least you could go to the only structure that would be a counter to her ability. Any other structure and you're #########. Now the same applies to PH, but even worse, as he is just as fast, if not faster, and has a wider hitbox. As for PH's Cage, my biggest issue is that any hook related perks do not apply. So I do see a lot of camping PH's coming with no way to counter it. Camping is already toxic AF towards the survivor, now all im gonna see is russians using the iridescent addon if they are forced to hook and otherwise camping the cage to fully counter BT. And since they can also counter DS, and they dont care about being depipped(they would use ebony mori if they could, which countered DS already, now you have it even worse by not even needing ebony mori). So all I see is enabling massive toxicity with no way to counter it. At least on other killers, except Freddy, you could use BT to counter campers. The bonusses that PH brings to the table dont even come close to the downsides that he brings with him. There are too many problems with his powers. Huntress with Irihead used to be the go-to russian camping tunneler, and at least she has 110% movementspeed.
""This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay." Feather Weight and urban evasion. There you go. I fixed your forever crouching problem for you while retaining most of your stealth. You got two options: hide and think about spots you can avoid the killer as they slowly close in on you. Or mindlessly make noise notification and then run around the same object for up to 3 to 4 times."
I already mentioned Urban Evasion. As for feather weight, I am assuming you either mean Lightweight or Quick and Quiet, but I dont really see either of them being a legitimate counter. In my opinion, there need to be vanilla counters to a killer's basekit. Perks should be enhancements to countering a killer, but not a requirement. There arent any realistic counters to PH other than genrushing. So either a lot of killers are gonna complain they are being genrushed, or survivors are gonna complain that there is no way to extend a chase. I already have my build ready for when PH gets released(and I am saving up BP's to get Mason's perk, because now there finally is a perk that allows to pick yourself up multiple times without being Broken, let alone a perk to finally counter Pop). Not having any vanilla counter(or having a terrible one, looking at you Freddy alarmclocks that spawn all the way across the map), can be a massive issue for a killer. The only upside about PH is his lack of map pressure, but considering his 1v1 is so incredibly strong, he can easily continue genpatrol.
"A lot of killers get insane advantages because survivors have no ability to prepare their perks. But this will make SWF nightmarish since they would all comm and insta-team build to counter your killer. Same thing with a killer that can see a sruvivor."
And I agree, which is why I'd suggest that only happening to Solo Survivors. Perhaps first a pre-game chat, then a short 20 second window without chatting possibilities to quickly adjust your perks/offering and solo survivors get to see the killer, while the killer gets to see who are premade and who is not(aka seeing people who know who the killer is and who dont). Perhaps even giving the average time it took for a match to finish while they were premade, to be able to recognise an optimal SWF genrushing team and just an SWF who are playing together to chill. I mean, either that, or add in vanilla counters. No perks, addons or offerings included. Those should always remain secret untill after everything is locked in.
And yeah, a gen rush as defined by survivors tend to be working on a gen together, while a genrush by killer mains is basically any time more than 1 generator gets popped in a single chase, regardless if the chase lasted 5 minutes to begin with and only had 2 gens popped(i mean seriously, how is 2 gens in 5 minutes a genrush?)
Well, kinda, they give information on where survivors would be or where they wouldnt be. Having information on where a survivor isnt is just as useful as having information on where a survivor is. Just because they dont give an aura of the survivors doesnt mean its not a detection perk. And gearhead isnt as bad as many people claim it to be. As long as a generator is being worked on, after a skill check, it will remain yellow. Its essentially Surveillance without having to kick the gen first and it will remain yellow longer. The only downside is place a basic attack 2 times. So yeah, on some killers its quite ######### and surveillance or discordance is simply a better option due to not requiring 2 basic attacks. However, that doesnt mean its garbage.
I am assuming you said Good for solo survivors getting shittier every update? No variety will make solo survivors better. Having a killer be strong against SWF isnt a problem, having a killer being strong against solo survivor is.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1304999#Comment_1304999
I think it lasts 30 secs? Can anyone confirm the actual length? It shouldnt be to long, but it also cant be to short or its worthless. Im also assuming you can only have so much of it out there before it starts disappearing?
Im guessing, we'll find out more as people play with it
I have yet to play a game where Torment disappears. I've done a gen and still was tormented.
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@Flatskull said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/155491/inb4-killer-power-nerf
You're not meant to loop him.
This guy is made and equiped with the power to take down SWF and looping. Looping is lame and boring and I'm happy to see a killer that actually has a power to help cut that down and force a survivor to actually make a play rather then kill time and driving me to bored tears with circling the same piece of furniture.
His weakness is stealth. When you crouch his torment can't be applied to you. This killer is effectivley the anti-doctor. He has no inherent ability to track people but when he does find someone he has the ability to shut down team plays and harm looping. Although both of his method of doing so are very easy to read and avoid.
Trail can stop looping by doing a loop once with it on. By trail I mean the torment applying crack in the ground and his range is limited, slow and in a straight small lane.
He's clearly designed to make you think "Hm, better not taunt and try to loop this guy lest he cage torments me and then decides to torment mori me later"
I imagine that perks like distortion, pebble, urban evasion, spine chill, featherweight and some of tap's perks would cream this guy. Especially since one of his best powers denies BQQC. One of the best detection perks.
Looping is part of survivor gameplay, if you cant loop, there is no reason to get out and distract the killer. Having a hard time looping a specific killer and being unable to loop are 2 massively different things. I dont mind Freddy's slows as a form of anti-loop(I do mind his teleport and his ability to fully entrap things that even a trapper cant entrap). I do mind Spirit's passive phasing, but thats because her basekit ability is simply overpowered and simply shouldnt be in the game as it is(seriously, for spirit to be balanced as a killer, you need to run 0 addons and refrain from using stridor).
Looping isnt lame, looping is the only interesting thing a survivor can do other than gens. Im 100% gonna bet that 90% of survivors will get a genrush build if his current anti-looping kit stays as strong as it is.
"force a survivor to actually make a play rather then kill time and driving me to bored tears with circling the same piece of furniture."
Like what? run into you to tank a hit to be able to go to the next pallet? There is nothing a survivor can do without windows and pallets. Looping a piece of furniture to buy time literally is making a play other than windows and pallets.
"His weakness is stealth. When you crouch his torment can't be applied to you." This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay.
" imagine that perks like distortion, pebble, urban evasion, spine chill, featherweight and some of tap's perks would cream this guy. Especially since one of his best powers denies BQQC. One of the best detection perks."
Problem being: survivors dont know which killer they will be facing untill the game starts. BBQ isnt the best detection perk tho. Its a good one and the double bloodpoints at the end of the match make it overall more rewarding, but once you own all the perks and have plenty of addons, you have better perks. Like Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, I'm All Ears(which is gonna make Executioner insane), Thrilling Tremors and Surveillance are all better information perks than BBQ. I'd say even Gearhead could be a better information perk. Especially since BBQ can so easily be countered with vanilla mechanics. While all previous mentioned perks cannot.
If at least solo survivors would be given a heads up on which killer they would be facing, my problems with this killer would disappear near instantly. But while optimal SWF is incredibly strong, solo survivors are getting ######### more and more every update.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Hes just a weaker version of the nurse and has the TR and movement speed to make up for it. If you cant predict what people are doing then he cant hit them with range.
This means tge counterplay is to brea LOS and be unpreductable like you do with nurse.
As for the trench, if possible crouch walk. If not, oh well.
One things for sure, just like bubba dont get downed near the basement. Its ggs if you do
Wow, didnt saw anywhere that you could crouch over the trail, which makes it a bit better, altho the torment shouldnt last forever still.
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@aGoodOldRub said:
Lol. It is extremely easy to dodge and extremely hard to use if anything it stays the same or gets some cooldown reduction etc. definitely not a nerf. I will be honest you seem like a new survivor who doesn't understand how things works like my friend saying ALL KILLERS OP NERF where good teams literally always escape lol.
the further you are the easier it is to dodge, granted, but its not the long range that worries me. Just like I am not bothered by Huntress her long range. Its the short range that I care about. And on short range, its insane. Dont deny that #########.
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@Danu said:
I think it could be balanced by how difficult it is to use his power, I thought he was very OP from his description but I honestly don't think so anymore, I really think we need to wait a longer amount of time until people get used to him to see where he is, he's only been out not even 2 hours now so you cant fairly judge him either way
Well, its a small skillcap, the torment trail is relatively balanced on its own, but in combination with his ranged attack that can down people just makes it an insane combo. And yeah, its been 2 hours so I cant fully judge him, but lets compare to deathslinger on release: deathslinger was called super weak by killers and super strong by survivors. As a split player, I thought he would be incredibly strong at first due to lack of counterplay. But on this one? I played him for a few minutes with a friend and its insanely easy to get a hit around loops. Like, imagine a Freddy, except instead of his traps slowing you down, they damage you.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1304267#Comment_1304267
It just came out needs more testing and 2nd your upset you can't suicide ? Did I read that right?
What? How would you even get that out of it? The issue is that he is fully unloopable on all current maps. If you're injured, he can damage you regardless if he truly caught up with you, as long as he aims in the right direction.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/155491/inb4-killer-power-nerf
Lol ok ?
Besides mom that got nerfed way later after ptb when have they not changed powers and perks before public release ?
Not gonna be new or shocking.
Charge times got changed before official release, timings got changed before official release. Ranges got changed before official release.
Right now, he is too fast, reaching too far, having a passive that completely removes the ability to wiggle that lasts forever(which should last at most 75 seconds).
What counterplay is there other than genrushing? The only counterplay I can think of, is the same counterplay to spirit: hoping the killer is worse at mindgaming and guessing you walked in the opposite direction the killer thinks you are.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
I hope not it’s not op but I can see it being annoying
How is it not OP?
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Only when affected tho
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1303287#Comment_1303287
There is no way Sprint Burst is better than Spine Chill against STEALTH killers. Other killers like Oni, sure, but Sprint Burst cannot guarantee you'll get away from the killer in time before he gets his first free hit off. Spine Chill does. You can't always see all around you, and then there are those obnoxious moments when you get skillchecks and have to stop moving your camera. That said, I guess I could see why you'd think that, unless you were playing Ghost Face, as he is the only real killer who doesn't have to alert survivors before he attacks. Well, Pig can too. Wraith can sort of catch up to a Sprint Burster though as he gets his own.
As for my most annoying combination, I'd probably have to say Sloppy Butcher/Thanataphobia on anyone,or Corrupt Intervention and Plague.
Kinda yes and no on this one. You tend to be able to see a stealth killer charge in. There is only 1 generator in the game that I can think off where a stealth killer could get a hit on you before you can run away, but even then you'd need to be solo on the generator and in the worst position too. Generally, you can see a killer before they get close, if not at least hear them, and sprintbursting away takes away most advantage a stealth killer would otherwise have. With Spinechill, you know a killer is looking at you, but you dont know from which direction, so you might end up walking straight into them, giving them a free hit. As for the skillcheck, just let it happen, a 5% regression tends to be better than a hit unless you're running Resillience.
SB SC combo is extremely strong against stealth killers for a reason.
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@Arctic_Krampus said:
Any killer and NOED, I mostly play survivor and it's frustrating to be steamrolling a really bad killer only for them to whip out NOED and get a guaranteed 1k. I've seen NOED at least once on every killer.
True, but if you were truly steamrolling the killer, you would have had time to search and cleanse the bones and prevent a noed aswell and decided not to do so. I personally dont always cleanse bones either, but if I suspect a killer might use noed, I definitely would search out bones.
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@Quol said:
BBQ for every killer
Sloppy+Nurse's for all stealth killers
Dead Hard+Spine Chill for all survivors
Yeah, I'm 100% bored of spinechill myself, but considering the way killers are building, I feel like I have to.
Billy's chainsaw noises are directionless untill you're in his TR. Yet Wraith, a much weaker killer, can be heard in exactly which direction he is using his ability whether you're close or far away(unless he uses bone or silent addons, which further give reason to spinechill).
Myers and Ghostface have too many places where they can fully stalk you without you being able to see them, unless you have spinechill or premonition.
Nurses can teleport to your location before you hear a TR, making Spinechill the only way to know she's coming.
Its literally the only way to know if Spirit is looking at you while phasing.
Let alone that there are popular perks nowadays that remove red stains and TR's, making Spine Chill the only way to know someone's coming in a lot of places.
There are simply too many killers that are already have quite a strong basekit, that spinechill feels like a requirement. I have to force myself not to use it, and end up regretting it because I end up facing a killer like Infinite t3 Myers on a map where he can stalk between wooden planks without me ever knowing because his breathing is more silent than my own.
So while I agree that spinechill is cliche, at least I see a reason for it being used, where most cliche perks on killers, they dont always need to be used. Bamboozle Billy literally would be strong enough to get a 4k, with his only weakness being T&L walls, because shocker he needs to use M1 in that scenario.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1302887#Comment_1302887
I yawn every time I see BT its so boring
At least BT has the requirement of a TR being audible, and its extremely easy to dodge. I dislike the DS Unbreakable combo a bit more, although I have yet to be DS'd by surprise.
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Yeah, solo survivors playing super tryhard to a point of you seeing it as toxicity has it's reasons. So far in my experience there are 5 sources of toxicity in this game:
- Optimal 4 man SWF who dont care about anything except escaping ASAP, to the point of flashlighting the killer 10 times in a row. - making the killer kinda toxic the next match.
- Slugcamping killers who dont care for anything but a 4k, even if they have to use the cheesiest build to achieve it and will always claim EZ even if they have 3 survivors escaping - making the survivors kinda toxic in the next match
- 3-man or 2-man SWF's who are sandbagging their random teammates. - making survivors toxic in the next match
- Killers using Ebony Mori and tunnel people out of the game before they could even gain a single point. - making survivors toxic in the next match
- Just being matched against a player that is 1000 leagues above you and makes you depip even though they didnt try to do so, happens more to killers and they assume the survivors were being toxic, excluding the fact that they only have 150 hours as killer while the survivors have 10000 hours combined in the game.
And I believe the 5th one is only gaining toxicity because the other 4 sources. And toxicity breeds because people ragequit. If a player post game is able to explain their percieved toxicity in a civil manner, or excuses themselves for certain behaviour(I played the most toxic freddy build in game just to check out why people even want to play it, I still dont know why, its disgusting to play as, excused myself to the survivors for using that build), then I can easily continue into my next game without feeling like I have to play more serious.
And while SWF can be incredibly annoying to face due to comms, at least playing with friends as a survivor keeps my toxicity to a minimum. So more killers have decent games than if I were to play alone, forced to play as tryhard as possible just to feel good about myself because the previous killer I faced mori'd me after getting a lucky instadown due to a deadzone in game after a teammate farmed me right in front of the killer(I'd rather hang on a hook for 2 minutes while gaining some struggle points than being mori'd out of the game with practically 0 points, p3 Blendette without BT, you #########).
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This also applies on survivors running DS and Unbreakable. Its just so boring to face essentially the exact same player you faced last round.
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@Dwinchester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1300787#Comment_1300787
Yes, i did record it. No, i wasn't greedy. I made a couple of mistakes, but you can't make a whole lot of mistakes in 4 freaking minutes. The biggest mistake was hitting ready with a player named umbra on the survivor team. I know how to run the maps, I know how to 3 gen.
Then you simply faced a team that was extremely well prepared to face the killer you were playing. That ######### happens, but even then, you cant claim its 1 in 50 games, you've only been talking about 1 specific game over and over again, not even mentioning the other games, meaning that was obviously the worst out of all games you faced.
There might have been 4 other similar to those those in 1 weeks time, granted, and that is an unlucky strike. However. I could claim the same about iri head ebony mori slugfest huntresses. Those are about 1 in 2000 games and I had 4 of them within 2 hours of playing. Would it be okay for me to claim it was 1 in 50 because there were a lot of them on 1 day? Hell no.
Yes, ######### games exist, as humans we react to negativity a lot more than positivity. It is why, in example, its world news for months when 1 massive terrorist attack happens, but not a single news outlet will mention that we're living in the most peaceful era of human history. There are less deaths in the past 5 years than there were deaths in the entirety in 1964. Just as you remember that single 1 game and forgot about the game you had prior to that, which actually might have been a very easy 4k game for you.
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@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1301229#Comment_1301229
Then why should Survivors be able to just cheese their achievements by bringing in keys? But, anyway, its not a test of skill. Its a test of luck but more annoying, because you are limited to a single perk build. Its not skill having to rely on survivors not being literal potáts. Its not skill having a power that directly goes against the emblem system. If they fixed the emblem system, it would be fair. But the current version is beyond flawed, making these achievements unnecessarily complicated.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1301241#Comment_1301241
They didnt change them directly. Back then they just required killing all 4 survivors because that would give you Merciless guaranteed. Then they changed the emblem system to the garbage that it is today and indirectly made them less reasonable to get by changing the conditions for a "Merciless Killer".
Then why should killers be able to cheese their achievements by bringing in a mori?
As for skill or luck. Its both. You need to be skillfull enough to use the perks while lucky enough that the opposition isnt good enough to outplay you. Its both sides. If I want an adept Quentin(with perks that dont synergize with each other at all), you need to be lucky enough not to be killed by the killer. And while theoretically its possible for survivors and for killers to go perkless/itemless/addonless, that only applies if you have enough skill to compensate. The vast majority of players do not have the skill to face their average opponent without perks. So Quentin is practically playing perkless the entire game. And you need to be facing a killer that cant take advantage of that. So if you face 50% of the killers, you're already ######### by default.
You're always able to cheese achievements, some easier than others. I got a lot of achievements because I touched the special "easter egg" generator for 1-2 seconds to finish it up, just because I happened to pass by that location, and get the achievement for something I barely did. I got all the killer rank achievements(expert, master and legendary killer) all in 1 day due to a bug with achievements, even though I rarely played killer at all.
And you know what? thats fine, because with every killer and survivor, new achievements come out. Sometimes achievements that do not make sense. For example, take Zarina's achievement. Selfless survival: Heal 30 survivors from the dying state back to the injured state. I've owned DBD since 2015, I've healed hundreds, if not thousands of people from dying state to the injured state, and now there is an achievement that states I NEVER healed people from the dying state to the injured state since I owned the game. Does that make sense to you? Ofcourse I got it relatively quickly, but you'd assume that those kind of achievements would instantly complete when added to the game. But they dont.
As for why they changed it, 4 survivors and 1 ebony mori would be a free double pip for killers. 1 hook and 1 mori counted as a full point. Which was ridiculous. Then they kinda changed it that 1 hook and 1 mori would simply equal 3 hookstates, rather than 4(there are 4: 1st hook, 2nd hook, sacrifice, fully sacrificed), which made people run Dying Light with Ivory Mori instead. Cus you didnt need 4 full sacrifices to get a double pip. You needed 3.5 sacrifices, meaning you could easily mori the obsession early game(because back then dying light gave a permanent 25% debuff in everything, combined with old ruin and thanatophobia, you would lose more progress with a single great skillcheck than you could regain). Guaranteeing 4k's anyway. The amount of red rank killers heavily outweighed the amount of red rank survivors. You literally had to run BNP to counter old ruin and hope you werent the obsession.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1301248#Comment_1301248
What I'm getting at is survivor adepts are laughably easily compared to killer adepts.
Well, really depends on the perks.
Killers rely more on their ability than on their perks to get a 4k.
Survivors rely more heavily on their perks and teammates than they can on items.
You can get all adept killer achievements at rank 20-15 for killers, meaning that as a total noob, you can get all the "hardest" achievements. For early survivor adepts, you'd only have 2-3 survivors that are achievable for noobs and it requires quite some skill before you can run a game where you can escape with 3 perks.
So while late game they are easy compared to killer, they are hard compared to killer early game. Just like killer is easy at first and gets tougher the more you play while survivor is hard at first and gets easier the longer you play. If you didnt want those achievements back when you started playing killer, then why go for them now? Its not like achievements give you anything proper other than bragging rights. You dont get anything special from it. So does it really matter? The biggest reason killers dont go for the achievement is because killers dont care about those achievements. Just like I dont have an adept Meg yet, even though she's my main, while I do have an adept Kate(I happened to need her specific perks for a challenge). I could easily get an adept Meg, just like I could easily get an Adept Trapper. I just dont care enough to do so.
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merciless victory and double pipping are very different tho. Got an adept trapper with a black pip.
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@Dwinchester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1298914#Comment_1298914
Wasn't greedy, switched targets, forced people off gens, didn't matter. Lol 1 in 5000, I wish. More like 4 out of 10.
Uhuh, and, did you record your footage, tried finding out what you did wrong and if you truly were greeding or not? Even Otz says that he made a mistake by chasing a survivor who fully knew how to loop Otz. If you have a survivor that can loop you for what seems to be an eternity, without dropping any pallets during the run, you are being greedy. Switching targets and dropping a chase are different things. And you probably forced them off the wrong gens.
Example: backwater swamp - grim pantry has 2 gens that are very far away from the others: one is in the house, the other tends to be either in the faraway corner or close to a gate. Scaring survivors offf of those gens is a terrible idea, because they are extremely far away from the rest of the gens. Then you have 5 gens that are close to the killershack, and you have 5 potential 3-gens there. Scaring them off the generator in the house while someone else is doing the gen next to the killershack is wasting your time. Heck, if you have the right perks(tinkerer, Pop/Ruin, Surveillance for example), you can even prevent them from doing any gens at all after they did the first 2.
Another example: The Game: you often want survivors to do the gens upstairs, even though downstairs is loopcity, its very easy to patrol generators for the killer downstairs. Preferably, you want 1 gen upstairs and 2 gens downstairs left for the final gen, but The Game allows for up to a 4-gen situation that is incredibly hard to break, let alone that it wont prevent a 3-gen situation, giving survivors 2 extremely hard generator setups that they would need to try and break. If you have all 4 survivors alive at that point, they might make it, but you should be able to kill at least 1 survivor before the final gen needs to be fixed.
Another example you ask? Well, one of the tougher maps for killers to get a 3 gen: Ormund. You basically do not want to walk around the building. You always want to walk through the building. It's just as fast or even faster than walking around and you'd always have pressure on the central gen, which is the only gen that would allow a 3-gen situation. If you let the central gen be popped early, you basically spend too much time being lured away by a survivor. Get your priorities straight. Chasing isnt your number 1 priority. Preventing gens from finishing is a bigger priority that can become your greatest strength. If you have control over which gens are being finished, then you can spend time chasing someone across the entire map.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Thats some great nonsense. Survivors do not need any killer interaction to progress in the match. They progress solely on doing gens. Camping is not justifyable during gen phase.
Kinda false tho. If the killer does nothing to survivors, survivors will depip. Survivors NEED killer interaction to earn pips. A killer with insidious standing in a corner looking away from the map will force survivors to depip. At least, green+ rank survivors need more than just 2 iridescent. I kinda am voting for Iridescent evader when you never have been chased, which is literally evading the killer, meaning that if the killer finds you once, you get reduced to bronze instantly.
But yeah, if the killer isnt afk and decides to camp, ofcourse gens are gonna be done.