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@BigBrainMegMain said:
*laughs in Nurse*
I mean, they already nerfed Balanced Landing to the point where it went from my Favorite Perk to collecting dust.
I wouldn't mind a stagger effect, but a true THOUGHT OUT stagger effect.
100%, not just a simple 0.3 second stun(which survivor stagger pretty much is). And yeah, that would buff nurse technically, which a lot of old nurse mains probably wont mind.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288611#Comment_1288611
It's also supposed to be that the Killers are fueled by evil and their immense strength means they don't stumble. They're 'unstoppable', not 'sometimes staggering'.
This is a straight up Killer nerf when Killers already have an uphill battle. No.
- killers and survivors are quite balanced.
- if they are so unstoppable, why does a FLASHLIGHT make them drop a survivor? Why do killers need a perk to reduce pallet stuns? Why do they stumble when they miss a basic attack? Thats a very bad reason as a counter argument
- yes, stagger was added to help defeat infinites, back before windows were blocked by the entity, back before some windows were straight up removed, back before some god pallets were removed/altered. In the current day meta, killers not having any punishment from going for a drop instead of walking around, especially when things like wiggling out of grasp is already so weak that solo survivors tend to use DS(seriously, even things like Flip-flop, boil over and break-out combined, perks DESIGNED to help people escape the killer grasp more easily, still dont work because hooks are practically everywhere now), having some punishment by dropping from a height really wouldnt hurt the game.
But no, you have a killer revving a chainsaw at 99% while dropping a great height without impacting them, you have a huntress fully charging a hatchet without fail. All it means is that they would have to fire their ability before landing on the floor. All it means is that dropping from a height would have the same/similar effect on wiggle speed as dropping a survivor normally does, or perhaps having a chance of dropping the survivor after a large fall(seriously, why does dropping a survivor on the floor "weaken" the grasp by 30% otherwise?).
Now, why else should you actually want a stagger? Because then you can design perks around it. I mean, for the wiggle thing, you already have iron grasp to counter that, but you could easily add a perk that actually works like BL, reducing the stagger and give a haste bonus, without adding any exhaustion(which has many uses) without it being too much of an OP perk.
TL;DR
Current survivor stagger is too much in today's meta and a lot of vanilla gameplay does not get used at all because of it, making quite a lot of maps boring to play on. Adding a tiny amount of killer drop punishment could easily give motivation for survivors to actually try some killer sided structures rather than avoiding it like the plague, giving killers more chances of hitting survivors as their structures are more commonly used and forcing killers to use abilities before they touch the ground instead of cheesing.
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@immortalls96 said:
Pass..window loops would be absurd
How would a 5% stagger affect a window loop to the point of absurdity? Stagger was added to remove some infinites, however, that was prior to window blockage and it effectively removed any and all reason to ever go to some parts of the map unless a hex totem happened to be there. 5% of what survivors experience is large enough of an effect to have some slight punishment without affecting the game too much(seriously, we're talking 0.3 seconds here at most, while survivors experience 3 seconds at most).
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Not exactly, besides, haddonfield got a massive nerf when BL was nerfed. So giving it a tiny buff wouldnt be too much. Let alone that there are MANY maps that have killer sided drops that are never used by survivors, haddonfield is literally the only map that has a few survivor sided drops(second floor windows, not the rooftops, the rooftops would still be heavily killersided)
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@TimeMonster said:
while i do agree, i just don't think that it must be 5-10% of survivor side stagger, mebe something like when killer blind - i mean thay still can hit, but not lunge durning fall, and 0.2 seconds after landing. this should be enough
well, 5-10% is about 0.15-0.3 seconds at most, considering survivor stagger is about 3 seconds at most.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1286326#Comment_1286326
Dude. they're both going to the SAME SPOT at the end of the lunge. Freddy ain't getting anything extra on his, so what are you bitching about?
If there's a line 5 feet in front of both killers, THAT is where they stop the lunge. The devs have said this. So what are you trying to prove?
All. Killers. Lunge. The. Same. Distance.
Freddy is not getting anything extra. The devs have said this, and the devs can SEE his ######### hitboxes and actually measure out how far he lunges.
So take your little drawings, and go away. You're wrong; Freddy goes NO FURTHER THAN ANY OTHER KILLER.
Again, last info I could find:
"It isn't his lunge that is bigger. His body model is smaller. So essentially there is a gap in-front of Freddy before his lunge. So he always appears to be lunging shorter than he really is."
So either give me the ######### update where lunges changed or GTFO.
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@MyersxKate said:
They already nerfed it, its fine
Iri head is still a pain in the ass and requires no skill
Its not really fine when a killer can hit a hatchet and then do a basic attack in less time than it takes between 2 basic attacks. I've had plenty of times where a huntress was able to get 2 people, full health, downed before they had time to get out of the killer shack, simply because there is much less time between being able to deal damage. In the current Meta, huntress is my second most disliked killer because of the cooldown addons. They close a massive gap of skill to a point where a 100 hour huntress with addons can easily beat a 3000 hour survivor while a 1000 hour trapper can still be beaten by a 100 hour survivor.
Let alone that her kit basically denies most jungle gyms and can punish you for trying to go to a better one even though you created tons of distance. Being able to punish faster, while only needing to know how to aim is a bit ridiculous. Let alone that BT doesnt really work against huntress either because of her humming radius.
I've faced tons and tons of huntresses, and those addons are still one of the most bullshit addons in the game.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1286201#Comment_1286201
5 feet is 5 feet.
If you tell someone 6 feet tall to reach 5 feet in front of them, and then tell someone 3 feet tall to reach 5 feet in front of them; they are both reaching 5 feet in front of them.
One just has to work harder for it.
5 feet does not magically grow an extra 3 feet more because the shorter dude has to work harder for it.
Therefor, Freddy has the same lunge as everyone else. He reaches the exact same spot any other Killer would reach. This is what is meant by 'Freddy has the same reach as everyone else'; the end goal; the distance covered, is the same: 5 feet.
(Or whatever it is. 5 meters, 2 yards. Whatever)
ITS NOT ABOUT HOW TALL THEY ARE, BUT HOW WIDE:
ITS FROM THE ######### CENTER OF THE MODEL AND BECAUSE THEY ARE LESS WIDE, THAT MEANS A ######### LARGER EFFECTIVE AREA.
Lets take it differently, all right. Lets say you have a ball thats 5 meters in diameter and a ball that is 1 meter in diameter. Then, from the center of the ball, there is a screw that is 5,1 meters long sticking outside the ball.
That means that on the 5 meter ball, you have 0,1 meters of screw. But on the 1 meter ball, you have 4,1 meters of screw. Now, the screw is equally long for both balls, yet the visible length of each screw is different in size.
In DBD, the same method applies. They are from the CENTER of the model. The distance from the center of the model is the same for each killer. Having a smaller hitbox leaves a larger area of effect. Its not about the HEIGHT of the hitbox, but about the WIDTH. The smaller WIDTH of the hitbox is why Freddy, Ghostface, Legion and Hag can wallhug, while Oni, Trapper, Bubba and Wraith cannot.
The circles I showed earlier have the SAME distance from center to the end, which is the reach. Normally, it doesnt make too much of a difference, because its only a few centimeters longer. However, in case of a pallet or window, that means a Freddy can hit you where other killers otherwise cant.
If you still cant get your head around that, I suggest taking geometry classes. Or having a dev confirm that attacks have changed.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280564#Comment_1280564
If she stops to break the pallet that gives you a chance to hide and/or make it to the next tile very easily unless she has MDR.
She is a 110 killer you were talking about passive phase. If she phases she can't see you and if you are careful she will have a harder time tracking your via sound or grass moving.
She's not that hard to beat. Just don't make stupid moves and think about what she can and can't do. You can indeed counter play a Spirit.
IF she stops. But a spirit doesnt stop unless she has spirit fury or if its a really strong pallet.
"She is a 110 killer you were talking about passive phase."
No, I was talking about both. Her passive phase is incredibly strong in looping, and if thats not helping her, she just phases because you cant see OR hear the difference, meaning she might be faking out a phase, might be she is looking at you for a second to see what you would do or actually would be phasing and be right next to you within 1 second. Meaning that its practically a guaranteed hit.
"she will have a harder time tracking your via sound"
No, this is 100% false. She can always hear you breathe, and she can more easily hear you breathe than other killers can, since she has no background sounds that are loud enough to mask the breathing. No perk, no item and no ingame mechanic reduces her hearing. If you can afford any headset, you can get the survivor 100% of the time while phasing. Her not being able to see you is not a weakness to her ability. Especially not since there is a tiny bit of auto aim involved in this game.
A potato spirit isnt hard to beat, correct. A decent spirit will always get a 2k. Regardless of the skill of her enemies.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278541#Comment_1278541
Umm..dude? Freddy does not 'technically' have a longer lunge. 5 feet is 5 feet. (Or whatever the lunge distance is). If every Killer reaches 5 feet, they ALL reach 5 feet, regardless if he has to lunge 'further' because he's shorter.
Freddy has the same reach as every other Killer. His is not 'technically' longer.
The lunge is 5 feet from the center of the model. if the model is smaller, then you have more range.
Its easy maths. In case you need a visual:
Lunge is equal, hitbox makes the difference.
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@NotDBD said:
You might need to give more information on the issue. What platform you are on, some footage if you have it.
Do you mean the killer gets the full lunge? Because a killer can still swing and move forward an inch. It's all about how the survivor on the ground places themselves under the pallet. But if you mean the killer is getting an extended lunge out of the pallet then yes, more likely a bug.
Well, the only additional information I could add, is that its PC, but since its part of killer states(carrying a survivor and not carrying one), I doubt thats really important. Basically, the game registers the killer as not carrying a survivor during the pick up animation.
As for a "full lunge", no, there is a lunge and a swing, no need to add more info about that.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280109#Comment_1280109
Dude Spirit is fine. You can counter her.
You're not supposed to know that she is phasing. When you see her stand still assume she is both phasing and standing still, then do whatever it is you can do that would counter both at the same time.
Her passive phasing is nothing special. She is still a 110 killer, just don't assume anything. Running from one tile to the next is more effective than staying at a tile and looping her. Drop pallets early and use them as windows, because windows are strong against her. If you loop her like a normal killer you will often get hit because of it.
Also no, her powers in no way is better than Nurse. Nurse can straight up teleport through stuff, Spirit is a 110 killer she still has to walk to places, even in phase.
Her phase is literally 176%, only her passive phase is 110%, and the issue is that mindgaming is what allows for looping. Burning pallets everywhere, does not. A decent spirit will know a strong pallet and break it, then phase to catch up, without having any negative side effects. Even wraith is forced to slow down when catching up. If spirit was forced into a prolonged cooldown after a phase attack, then it would at least have a negative side effect to constantly phasing.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280082#Comment_1280082
I'm just gonna throw in two names for you: ScottJund and Umbra. Both are decent huntress players that know exactly where they are able to throw a hatchet. I'm pretty sure your counterplay against huntress will get better if you watch some of their guides and videos.
Like I said, I also played against those killers, and again, like I said, I dont mind playing against people who know exactly where their hatchets end up. I can decently counterplay a huntress like that, but the issue in those games is that my teammates do not, meaning it ends up being a hatchgame. And I dont mind those games. However, to gain distance, you sometimes need to take a hit, if a huntress can fully charge a hatchet before your boost is over, there isnt really any distance you can gain unless there happens to be a tree you can hide behind, or a wall, and its kinda a 50/50 shot on whether you'll be downed.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278541#Comment_1278541
oh boy, a list to go through!
Spirit:
1) there is a warning sound. and her faking the phase isnt gonns help her a lot unless you start running at her. you can also check with a flashlight - and i believe there is a slight clue that reveals when she phases? dunno if that one is intended, ive heard of its existance but i myself never really went out of my way to check.
2) leave the terror radius then. in general, leave the tile and she will be forced to phase after you - then backtrack a bit and she is gonna be utterly confused. always assume she is phasing and play accordingly.
3) thats nothing she can control - she cant een see when she has passive phasing herself. if she passively phases at just the needed time to trick you at a loop, thats really just bad luck at that point.
4) the woosh is 24m, like her Terror Radius. and, just like her, you can track the footsteps to learn her position (works especially well on indoor maps)
5) Iron Will - and she is faster than Wraith. also "no downsides" is just going to ignore the fact that she can literally not see you? another thing: do you know why no one plays Nurse these days, even though she is easily the best killer in the game? its because she has a stun after using her power - combined with the reload time of her blinks it just makes her very unfun to play. And its not like Spirit could just use her power like Billy does - she does have a cooldown on it.
6) you still can. though, its definitely a lot harder when the spirit is decent, ill agree on this one.
=> Spirit is a big mindgame
Freddy:
1) false. 1) the Add On slow down doesnt even get close to full stacks Dying Light; 2) it ONLY applies to sleeping survivors. just stay awake.
2) his teleport cooldown is 90 seconds when everyone is awake. and even when all 4 are asleep, the cooldown is still 36 seconds - stay awake.
3) agreed. his snares basically take away clowns only reason of existing - plus, unlike clown, he can spam them during a chase all the time without having to ever reload. to avoid them, stop looping him on the same tile and run around different tiles. the snares arent active immediately after placement and he cant throw them ahead of you like clown could. or, ya know, stay awake.
4) he cant use them during chases though - he is forced to prepare a setup prior to the chase. remember which pallets are real and which have been used already. also: stay awake - and then destroy his setup when you did fall asleep.
5) this is simply false. every killer in the game has the exact same lunge range.
=> Freddy is only good when you are asleep
Spirit:
- No, there is no warning sound unless you stand directly next to her. You can check it with a flashlight, sure, but you'd need a flashlight in the first place, which, odds are, that you wont have unless you already planned on never doing gens and looping the killer instead. No there is 0 difference between her standing still and her phasing. People claiming that are spirit mains who dont play survivor, because as spirit, your arms twitch a bit before you enter, but as a survivor, you dont see any of that.
- The only way to leave the terror radius in time is to run. If she phases and sees that, she aint gonna be confused, because she can hear you breathe. I mean, I even hear survivor breath while having chase music, and if I play spirit, the only people who dodge my phasing are people who drop a pallet when they think im near. That is the whole issue with her phasing in the first place. You have less background sounds, so things like breathing become more discernable to you.
- And that is the problem, it breaks mindgaming, removes skill and makes it luck based. I mean, imagine that a survivor randomly disappears without them knowing, leaving no scratchmarks, blood or sound, without having to use perks. People already dislike dance with me, QQ and Iron Will combo because its essentially RNG from killer perspective in which direction they went. Yet dance with me has quite a massive cooldown to be used again because leaving no scratchmarks often in a row is too strong, so why design a killer that does the exact same?
- Yes, it is, and it increases up to 12 meter away, and there lies another problem. As for tracking her footprints, thats only usable when she isnt chasing you, because she moves too fast to be worried on tracking them.
- Again, thats reliant on a perk, let alone that stridor fully counters iron will. And it doesnt matter that she doesnt see you, BECAUSE SHE CAN HEAR YOU CLEARLY. Any ######### headset can accurately give way to where a survivor is. Since there is no way to reduce breathing, she can ALWAYS TRACK YOU ACCURATELY. As for nurse being unfun to play, not really. The whole point of getting a massive boost is to recieve a punishment from it. Considering Spirit's phasing doesnt fully drain her cooldown(which is also an issue with Freddy's teleport), makes her able to quickly dash to you faster than a Wraith can catch up. And Wraith also is slowed down while ringing his bell, so that survivors at least can gain some distance, where Spirit has no true downsides. Not seeing survivors is never an issue, not hearing survivors is literally a bigger downside than not seeing them. Blendettes are annoying because they run Iron Will and Urban Evasion besides being hard to see due to her clothes and skintone in general, but I can wear neon clothing, run Iron Will and a killer has a harder time finding me than when I am a Blendette without Iron Will. Sound is a massive thing in this game, if Spirit's hearing was reduced while phasing, then she would be a lot better to face. But because all other sounds except survivor sounds are getting muffled, she has an easier time locating people.
=> Spirit is no mindgame, she literally is RNG while passive phasing and impossible to escape from while phasing. The only literal counter to spirit phasing is to wait at a pallet and go for the stun.
Freddy:
- Jumprope, yes, chains? also apply to awake survivors, and its very easy to keep survivors asleep. Especially if you use chains and paintbrush.
- 90 seconds while everyone is awake is still unacceptable, especially since he can spend that time setting up traps. Then all he needs to do is land 1 single basic attack and tadaa, asleep. At least old Freddy had to put people asleep himself. Let alone that if you have to constantly wake yourself up using skillchecks every 60 seconds(which only wakes up the one who fails the skill check, not the ones who are near the skillcheck, except when healed, then only the person being healed wakes up), forcing a 10% reduction and letting Freddy know exactly where you are, meaning the only other way is being woken up by other people who are awake or by moving to the opposite side of a map(while you probably will be seen by Freddy, either starting a chase or letting him know you're not doing gens, both which are pretty critical to a game), which will take even longer. Meaning you're literally better off just rushing a gen with someone else instead and hope you get a skillcheck while at 90%.
- Snares activate quick enough to essentially break a loop before you can even run him, meaning you're forced to run in a line and hope there are enough decent vaults and pallets, which arent too many off. And again, staying awake when playing solo is practically impossible without constantly letting freddy know where you are.
- He can place down pallets during a chase, not effectively, obviously, besides that, it takes less than a second to set them up and all you need is a slightly believable place. There are often times where I dont know a pallet is fake untill after I wake up, because you dont run around the map, scouting out all the pallets and memorizing them untill you get into a chase in the first place.
- Not really, same lunge distance, applied from the center of the killer hitbox, and freddy's hitbox is smaller, making the lunge range larger. Which is why Freddy can hit you when you are on the opposite side of the pallet while other killer cannot(except hag, hag also has the same hit range as freddy).
=>Freddy is extremely good while you are asleep, and has decent enough pressure to deal with survivors who stay awake.
I mean, you are forced to constantly reveal yourself to Freddy if you want to stay awake, because you cant be woken up untill you fall asleep. If waking up didnt rely on giving away your location, then yeah, freddy would be a lot weaker than he is right now.
And just because there is some counterplay, doesnt mean a killer doesnt need a nerf. Especially when a killer has RNG to them.
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1279121#Comment_1279121
The killer's going against 16 perks and 4 items, I'd just like to point that out.
Nurse has add-ons that mimic her perks, except Thana. Doc has all sorts of effects that aren't too different from perks. Myers has Dead Rabbit and aura reading add-ons. That's just to name a few. And how exactly do braids mimic a perk effect? No perk affects hatchet windup. It specifically affects the killer's power which is what add-ons should do.
But a single killer perk tends to be as strong as 4 killer perks. Iron Grasp or Agitation alone can easily beat boil over, flip flop, breakout and saboteur combined, for example.
Doc's addons are very weak version of perks at best. The only thing is that if someone has madness 3 and is downed, you get a free deerstalker, which is a very weak perk.
As for mimicking, Braid mimicks stbfl because for huntress her m2 is her m1 essentially. Even Billy(who I am also quite outspoken about with his insta rev addons), sometimes needs his m1. Huntress never needs her m1 at all. So a significant cooldown on her m2 is essentially a cooldown on her m1.
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Adding extra proof.
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In short: nerfing it from 10% to 8% barely left an impact, most very skilled huntresses avoid it because its too easy to get hits and it leaves otherwise relatively unskilled huntresses, who can aim(I mean, that's literally 5 games of huntress to get adjusted to her aim) still getting a hit simply because the cooldown is fast enough to not be able to keep surroundings in check while also being forced to look backwards to see where the killer is aiming.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1280091#Comment_1280091
I mained Freddy for awhile and still occasionally lost to good teams. Hes a potato masher for sure but hes not uncounterable. Im a r1 survivor so i play against plenty of freddys and while yes hes one of the hardest killers to go against hes not impossible.
I am a r1 survivor AND killer, and I can assure you that almost all r1 Freddies are just ######### around. Using the weakest addons, perks that dont really compliment Freddy's strenghts and at best run Noed just to get a salty response. Because thats literally been every Freddy player I've faced against. Just because most killers play Freddy fairly, doesnt mean he doesnt need nerfing.
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@WeenieDog said:
Man, that reminds me of the actual machine gun huntress build of old. Back when tinkerer gave a flat percentage boost to percentage based add ons. Now THAT was crazy.
Rest in peace baby, wish you were here.
yeah, but just because an old build was much more insane than it is now, doesnt excuse current day implementations. I mean, people complain that generator speeds need nerfing, well, that reminds me of the old BNP where 4 people brought a toolbox and 4 gens were done within 5 seconds of the match. Does the old BNP excuse current day gen speeds?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278541#Comment_1278541
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/963/DBD_20190905_Spirit_LoadScreenTip_StandStill.jpg
You're not supposed to know when she is phasing. It's by design.
Also if you play Huntress you'd know that hafts>wind up and are actually how you can land hatchets and follow it up with an m1 quickly. Wind up add-ons don't actually make it faster to swing after you throw a hatchet.
On its own, thats fine, however, considering her passive phasing breaks loops, her active phasing breaks loops, her active phasing beats Nurse's teleport AND beats Wraith's cloaked movementspeed. It's a bit too much to also make people inside the TR unaware that she is phasing in the first place. There is too little in game to counter her.
Just because its by design doesnt make it good design. If her phasing speed was 115% instead of 176%, or even 125%, then it would be much more balanced than she is right now.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1279133#Comment_1279133
Idk man 😂 i never have that much trouble with freddy. Hes a tough killer for sure but he is coubterable and beatable. Me and 2 other people escaped from one today 🤷♂️ you just drop the pallet early. I do it all the time
Then you've either been facing someone who plays Freddy to ######### around, or you've been facing someone who doesnt understand Freddy's strengths. When I screw around with Freddy, yeah, 1-3 people will escape. If I try a tiny bit with Freddy, 1-2 people escape. If I try decent with Freddy, 1 person escapes because I let them escape. Have any person try hard with Freddy, and escape is impossible unless you know its gonna be a Freddy or for whatever reason are running Calm Spirit and OoO.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1279121#Comment_1279121
Except the green medkit is made for self-healing lol.
Not back in the day, they had to make 1 for self healing obviously, and even then, its only a single heal, when back in the day, you could get at least 3 heals from a green medkit. As for dodging behind object, no, even when crouching behind an object in front of her directly inbetween you and her, a decent huntress can still hit you. A myers or ghostface cannot get stalk from it, but a huntress can get a hit from it. The only practical way of dodging a huntress is either having so many trees that she'll never have a direct line of sight, or few enough trees so you can easily sidestep, except, that there is only 1 map where trees are common enough to use that and maps where that isnt the case, you have tons of other objects you run into, meaning you'd have to look ahead for objects and behind you to see where huntress is aiming at.
Which isnt a problem at her base charge speed, as you have just enough time to look forward and backward inbetween shots, but with the reduction, there is not. Meaning you gotta get lucky on RNG for object spawning or memorize the ######### map before you get in a chase.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278568#Comment_1278568
Freddys counter is to drop the pallet early and to wake up. You dont have to like it, but thats the counter.
Except that when I play Freddy, anyone dropping a pallet is doomed to recieve a hit. And I am not an amazing killer, but even I know that placing down snares on a strong loop before a pallet is dropped is a must.
As for waking up, thats only temporary and forces you to go across the map, because the clock that can wake you up ALWAYS spawns as far from your current location as possible. The only other options are missing a skillcheck, except that freddy has an addon preventing that, and being woken up by someone else who also is awake, which is only really feasable in an SWF set-up, because playing with randoms, that's like expecting them to save you from a hook before you enter the second hookstage(which, is high expectations if you've seen the average random survivor).
Then you also have the issue of fake pallets, that literally means you need to drop all the pallets while you're awake, ruining any future looping, to prevent a fake pallet, or memorizing the whole goddanm map everytime it generates before you get chased, because once chased, you're a free down for Freddy. So no, its not a counter. Its only a temporary delay that is extremely finite. Because there are only 3-4 strong pallets at most in a game, all other pallets are actually in Freddy's favor as you would definitely be forced to vault the pallet and Freddy can reach the opposite side before you're able to vault back.
Its not a practical counter. Just because it works on paper has no effect on how it works in practice. On paper, spirit is a great idea: a soundbased killer in a game where most killers use visuals. In practice: the entire meta changed to the point where killers listen to breathing and floorboards creaking, making sneaking around even harder and Spirit practically impossible to escape because they literally hear where you are.
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@Yung_Slug said:
Most killers get add-ons that have effects similar to perks. I'm not sure what you mean by that.
There is a big difference between having a similar effect, and a practical effect that essentially is a replacement for a perk. Freddy is the worst offender to that. Technically Wraith has addons that replace fire up and brutal strenght, but those are cases of very ######### perks that would otherwise be a waste of a perkslot and he can only do so while in a state where he is unable to attack survivors. Having an addon that can replace/compliment a ######### perk is one thing, having addons that do the same to good/great perks are a problem for game balance. Because you'd essentially give a killer 5-6 perk slots that can be filled with good/great perks.
Why do you think Styptic and Syringe got nerfed? Because they were essentially an extra perk. Brand New Part and Toolboxes got massively nerfed because they essentially were an extra perk. All medkits got reduced self healing because they were essentially a better form of selfcare.
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@DelsKibara said:
OH MY GOD I CALLED IT!
I was joking when I said that someone will make a thread complaining about Huntress, and yet here it is.
Huntress has her issues, deal with it. Her base mechanics are fine, skill based and requiring a different playstyle to the point where if you remove all perks, addons and items, she'll have the upperhand, but in a game where perks, addons and items arent removed, thats fine. However, she has addons that are currently too strong for the current meta. Her windup got nerfed from 10% to 8% because 10% was too strong(altho, its progression based, not timebased, which doesnt make it a flat 8% in the first place, but whatever), but 2% reduction is simply not enough. I mean, imagine a key being nerfed by having the hatch be open for 5 less seconds. Yeah, 19 seconds open is an improvement from 24 seconds, but 19 seconds is still enough to have 20 hypothetical survivors escape the game(1 per second, and after the 19th, the hatch would stay open for the final survivor). Would you really be happy with that 5 second nerf? Would you really stop complaining about key's being too strong for that?
I mean, im not even talking about iri heads yet. Altho, those are already getting nerfed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Manna Braid is 8% reduction in wind up time.
STBFL is up to 40% reduction in attack cooldown on hit, with 5% per stack.
The two are not comparable.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278500#Comment_1278500
8% still does not equal 10%. You're also forgetting the fact that while she cannot "lose" this 8%, she also can't climb up higher than 8% either. Unless you use the other add-on (which by itself is 12%), which again, is 20% reduction in wind up speed and still only half as effective as STBFL's cooldown speed is at max stacks.
I still don't know why we are comparing these add-ons to STBFL. They're not the same. Her add-ons effect her M2, not her M1 like STBFL does and they only effect her wind up. They do not effect her cooldown on hatchet throws.
And sorry, I don't see how 20% increase in speed to charging up a hatchet is even equivalent to a Wraith being able to attack while cloaked, Deathslinger is already able to reload faster than Huntress' wind up time (even with just basic add-ons), or how it's even equivalent to Trapper being able to insta down someone who touched a trap no matter the case.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278553#Comment_1278553
It's 8%. If it's higher than that, it's a bug, but chances are you're just spitballing because if "machine gun Huntress" was back, it would be all over the place on the forums right now and it's not. You're not going to prove anything through cognitive dissonance like this alone.
Honestly, it seems to me that you just lost against a Huntress and are just angry and salty about it. Take an hour break to step away from the game and clear your head.
Its not machine gun huntress, which was insanely ridiculous, but it is still ridiculous. And no, its not that I lost against a huntress, I've lost against many huntresses of different skills and tactics(including russian slug campers with ebony mori, and everyone here knows how annoying those are). No, I mean the fact that 1 singular addon allows a killer to have 2 hits where not a single other killer could is bs. The reason I compare it to STBFL is because of cooldown between hits. I've faced an amazing huntress(2k hours easily, last time his steamname was just CC, got utterly destroyed to the point of barely getting a black pip) who could hit a fly from the opposite side from the map if that fly had a 1 second aura, and even he refuses to use wind up addons because it feels too cheap and too easy to the point where he rather uses iriheads because at least those take time to charge inbetween shots.
And again, we're talking % in a game where the amount doesnt really convert into practice, one time its time based, other time its progress based, and another time its a mixture of both(which is why perks and addons that increase healing speed stack so weirdly). Having 20% applied in one case can have a flat 20%, but then you have an 80% thats actually 45%, or a 15% thats actually just a 5 second reduction that ranges from 10-20%. As far as testing went, time-wise, the reduction is not 8%. The time between fully charged hatchets was more like 16%.
As for why I compared it to STBFL, the whole schtick of STBFL is being able to land hits faster. A huntress with manna alone can apply a second hit to a survivor before a killer with STBFL can, because hatchets already have a shorter cooldown than basic attacks in the first place.
"I don't see how 20% increase in speed to charging up a hatchet is even equivalent to a Wraith being able to attack while cloaked"
Its essentially seeking a comparison between abilities. Besides that, technically, we already have a wraith that is able to attack while being cloaked, but we call her Spirit, and there are also a ton of issues with that. There is a reason why Huntress, Spirit and Freddy mains are disliked, with the exception of some people. Their addons and main ability(excluding huntress) are simply too strong for the current meta. There are a ton of addons that a killer might need to get the upperhand in some cases. Trapper might need bloody coils when he suspects an SWF team with OoO, Wraith might need all seeing blood and Pig might need Amanda's letter when they see a group of blendettes, but never is there a case where a huntress would need a higher wind up speed. It's basically an addon meant to help new huntresses throw more hatchets in a game to learn how to aim, but it's an addon that ends up getting too strong on a huntress that can already aim. Especially when you dont know you're gonna face a huntress. Facing a huntress already requires a different playing style, facing a decent huntress and you need to drop pallets before the huntress can get an angle to gain distance, allowing a huntress to wind up much later than she originally would need to, to get a fully charged hatchet simply is too strong unless the team knows they're facing a huntress. Considering you cant swap out perks after finding out what killer you face, that is a problem.
So TL;DR
Not mad that I lost against a huntress, I've had harder games against much more skilled huntresses who didnt need to rely on faster hatchet throws. Huntress already has a strong anti-looping skill and is already strong on deadzones(to the point where you literally need urban evasion to be effectively hiding behind objects, but again, cant change perks after the match begun). Having less time inbetween throws, while most maps no longer have proper loops against a huntress, because a proper loop against a huntress is a loop that is too strong for all killers that are not a huntress, is simply too much.
I mean, I can also write a rant on what is wrong with every killer ability, killer perk, survivor perks and survivor items, but outside huntress, spirit and freddy, the only contestors are ebony mori's and SWF's with rainbow map and skeleton keys. I play both survivor and killer, and I avoid spirit and freddy like the plague unless I need a challenge done that I can farm on them. I also stopped playing huntress quite quickly because it got real easy really fast without using addons that affect hatchet time or damage. When the only practical counter to something is specific perks or a terrible player playing the killer, its not balanced. Quick and Quiet didnt have a practical counter other than Whispers back in the day, DS didnt have a practical counter other than Mori back in the day, BL untill recently didnt really have a real counter when dropping other than practically being a skillless Sprintburst with a permanent sound reduction while falling from heights, making Hawkins originally extremely survivor sided if people used BL, yet Hawkins literally was the reason to change BL, as otherwise, it didnt have many maps where it was too strong(still strong on Haddonfield, but not game-changing strong). And yeah, Manna and Iri head for huntress, fall under the catagory of changing the outcome of games single handedly. And a single addon shouldnt be able to change a game that much without having any negative side-effect. I already think that all-seeing blood from wraith needs a negative side effect(I mean, Amanda's letter is literally the same, and it has massive negative impact on her ability even though she's 1/3rd the speed of wraith, so why no negative side effects on wraith's addon?)
This game just needs a massive restructure on the killer side. Which means some killers need some specific nerfs where others need a bit of a buff, just having an overall more consistent base gameplay, where survivors and killers without perks and addons should have about equal chances of winning. Right now, Huntress, Spirit and Freddy do not fit the position of facing perkless survivors and having equal chances. All other killers do, except those 3. And because Huntress doesnt really have perks that would compliment her ability other than aura readings, thats kinda fine, but she shouldnt have addons that shift the edge over that its practically impossible.
And yes, this is a lot of ranting, but you kinda called it upon yourself by assuming I got salty because I lost. No, I didnt. I got pissed off because someone was capable of being a massive ######### because of a singular addon. If anyone can abuse a single perk or addon to the point of being an ultra #########, then there is a problem with the perk or addon. I mean, imagine having a 4 man SWF with an OoO user while playing trapper and having all your traps be pointless unless you tunnel the OoO user, which is being shadowed by someone with a flashlight constantly. Then yeah, you would rightfully complain about OoO, because there was no way for you to practically counter it.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278553#Comment_1278553
Even 20% (assuming your right, which I dont think so) isnt what STBFL gives you. STBFL speeds up the animation after the attack, so it would make more sense to compare it to Huntress's cooldown addons like oak haft rather than addons that increase windup.
Kinda, but faster wind up gives a straighter line much faster, which is what a huntress is all about. If wind up is faster, then time inbetween long distance hits are faster. Meaning that if she hits a basic attack and follows that up by a hatchet, she'll be able to throw a hatchet before your speedboost is done. While with STBFL you'd at least are required to catch up.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278541#Comment_1278541
Spirit counters:
Walking
Freddy counters:
Waking up
Spirit counters countered:
Breathing is audible, a decent spirit can hear you breathe. Let alone that when injured, you are audible unless using iron will, which, again, spirits use stridor for a reason, so you're still audible.
Freddy counters countered:
Waking up can only be done by going to the opposite side of the map, or failing a skillcheck, or even if you're lucky, someone who is still awake. But again, not really a counter as you fall asleep again relatively quickly after waking up, unless you've been hooked. Being hooked is literally the best counter to freddy's power.
By the time you can walk to the opposite side of the map, Freddy can teleport twice. The only way of countering a strategic Freddy teleport is by rushing the gens that are strategic, however, as a killer, Freddy will try being present to all those gens.
Perkless and addonless, Freddy can be countered by waking up, yeah. But start including 1 perk or 1 addon, and you have a problem.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278467#Comment_1278467
Yeah I was careful about it. It makes me wonder if there is a problem with Ghostface and this challenge. I made sure it was actually counting as a chase AND he wasn't in his cloak ability. One time he seemed to be trying to stalk me while I was hearing chase music? He was either confused or something weird was going on.
Yeah sound bugs are a thing, sadly.
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@LordGlint said:
2 things... Perks and addons that work similarly is a pretty common thing and not something limited to Huntress (or even killers). Secondly, an addon offering an 8% boost to windup can hardly be compared to STBFL.
Its not an 8% boost, it might not be intended, but its at least 20% in practice. And yeah, some killers have a bad version of a certain perk, but they never rival the perk itself.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278473#Comment_1278473
Point being...theres any number of issues that could be the cause of a bad connection. Maybe dont jump strait to blaming your opponents. Even if your the only one in your household online at the time, your internet connection to the servers might still be messed up for whatever reason, whether that be peak hours lowering the speed on your end... or the servers themselves.
No, its a ######### vpn. Someone from literally the opposite side of the world cannot be on the same server as someone from europe.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Why nerf Freddy or Spirit? Both have counter play.
Yeah, genrushing is literally the only counterplay you can have. But you cant really call that counter play.
Spirit issues:
- no animation when going into phasemode
- no sound cues while in her terror radius
- passive phasing removes her red stain
- while phasing, she can still get readings from survivor positioning(fast vaults, surveillance, discordance, unhooks), while survivors at best get a woosh that is maxed out 5 meters around her.
- she has an easier time hearing breathing and injured people while having the movementspeed of wraith without any downsides. Not even a stun(seriously, she would be so much better to play against if she got a stun after her ability).
- Technically not an issue with spirit specifically, but add Stridor on spirit, and you literally cannot juke her. The only thing you can do is pallet stun her, and even that is not a guarantee.
Freddy issues:
- his addons alone are disgusting, some being even basically dying light at full stacks from the start of the game, applied to everyone.
- His teleport cooldown shouldnt be loading when everyone is awake, he still gets a teleport roughly every 20 seconds even when people are awake.
- His slows are Clown's slows but better as they are pretty much permanent. The worst part? Even if you get out of the original trap, it still is applied onto you for 2 seconds. Meaning its a 3-4 second slow, when it should be a 1-2 second slow.
- Even if he uses his pallets, there is literally nothing you can tell the difference with the pallet. With Doc, they are dropped and its revealed to you that they are dropped as soon as you hit them. Freddy's pallets are not revealed untill you drop them. That difference is extremely important. Freddy's pallets literally stop your movement to drop a fake pallet, where Doc's don't. Aka, Freddy's pallets are stronger than Doc's and Freddy's slow is better than Clown.
- Then, technically, Freddy's lunge is the largest of all since his hitbox is smaller. Meaning he can reach further where other killers wouldnt hit. Meaning he can hit you practically on the opposite side of the pallet where other killers cant reach you earlier. Considering his set-up is already incredibly strong, and his addons make his kit even worse, making him by far the strongest killer in the game, towering over spirit, huntress and nurse.
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@nicknack said:
Imo the only thing thats wrong with yoyr post is huntress only thing that needs to be change is a range for iri head
Yeah, and her quickload addons too. Just manna braid alone leaves for 2 hits before STBFL can have 2 hits. Without being at risk of losing speed either.
I mean, imagine Wraith having an addon that allows him to hit while cloaked. Or Deathslinger's reload speed being as fast as Huntress wind up time. Or trapper being able to instadown people who have touched a trap.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278432#Comment_1278432
SSSHHHHH, clearly its his opponents using expert lvl hacks or DDosing him, rather than his roommate looking up porn while hes trying to play.
Nah man, I am the only person on my internet.
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@venom12784 said:
What if it's not vpn killers and just poor connection to servers?
Probably both, but someone from Jakoetsk Russia being in a game with people from The Netherlands is 100% VPN usage.
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Well, you need to drop while in a chase. That means you need to be running while in the killer's view. If you walk or run before you're within the killer view, its not a chase.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1278377#Comment_1278377
The QnA is for questions YOU want to ask them prior to them actually giving the game updates...
If you're uninterested in watching the QnA, then wait for the updates.
No, he is implying that this issue was mentioned in the QnA. The issue is literally gamebreaking, which should be mentioned to the playerbase to be aware off, so they at least get an explanation why its happening.
Asking a question and having a gamebreaking issue are seperate things.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/152860/when-vpn-fix
someone didnt watch the new q and a
nope, but they gotta add that ######### in the game itself. Its not up to the players to go out of their way to watch updates, the devs are the ones who should notify the players when there is an issue like that.
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@Musicalhex said:
wait what. How is trapper setting a trap right infront of the locker a better scenario than just a bubba/billy revving? You can literally do nothing but exit and get trapped unless the killer horribly misplaces it, or a survivor disarms it. I mean sure if the trapper completely leaves you'll probably just get out injured after struggling from the trap. And even then trapper has a addon that puts you in the dying state if you struggle out.
Yeah, but some major differences
1: the trapper is forced to use a resource
2: in the case of the addon, the killer is using a second resource(which would even fail if there was a fellow survivor nearby)
3: its actually something you can get out.
A billy/bubba uses 0 resources to get essentially a better effect. So why is it that other killers are forced to use resources where billy and bubba dont? They already have a build-in better version of brutal strength. Bubba at least has the weakness of corners, Billy can wallride those things. Hell, the only true weakness in the game for them, is thin trees and single barrels.
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@MadArtillery said:
Lockers are already a powerhouse against those two killers, it seriously doesn't need a buff.
Not really, they are fairly scarce and they are free hooks unless the survivor has head-on. Or the one case on 2 maps where lockers directly face each other where a survivor can jump between lockers, but even then is it just buying time at most.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
I don't think lockers really need a buff.
its not lockers recieving a buff, its streamlining killer abilities. A hag cant instantly open a locker after a triggered trap, a pig cant open a locker untill after her attack cooldown is gone, a trapper cant open a locker untill he stands up straight after his ability/cancelling his ability, wraith needs to wait to be fully cloaked/uncloaked to open a locker(which is very visually shown), Nurse cant open a locker untill after her stun, Huntress, again, needs to lower her hatchet before she can open the locker which is very easily shown visually, Oni cant open a locker while charging his attack/while in a dash.
Bubba and Billy are the only 2 outliers here. And tbh, im willing to even look away for Bubba in this case, because his stun for hitting walls is more punishing than Billy is. It's not lockers recieving a buff, its 2 killers getting either a visual nerf(by having them lower their chainsaws, which nerfs them a lot if they want a bait), or a mechanical nerf and actually only letting them open a locker when they are able to basic attack. Opening a locker before being able to do a basic attack in this game is ridiculous.
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@NursesBootie said:
So lockers should be invincibility against chainsaws? You need to bait them into bumping into it.
Yes, and I had a billy bump into it and being able to rev as soon as I got out. He had 0 stun cooldown addons. But you cant increase the base stun for billy and bubba because thats too much of a punishment.
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@fUNERALfLOWER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1275802#Comment_1275802
I meant to say sound, not the action speed XD and yes it's 100% but with a cooldown. Initially it was at all times 90% and it wasn't an 8 meter range it was so close the killer had to almost be in Prove Thyself range (roughly 4 meters). It's far more balanced compared to then.
Yeah, I was confused, like, I used to run Q&Q a lot back in the day and never had increased speed. And yes, it was a lot stronger. If I had the game knowledge back than that I have today, I could literally have looped killers all game with no problem.
@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1275802#Comment_1275802
I feel like QQ is always up for some survivors. 😎
You'd be surprised how many killers run QQ tho. Dont know how they get it either.
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@fUNERALfLOWER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1275769#Comment_1275769
True, but its still a matter of balance. It's like how when Quick & Quiet was too powerful at tier III when it reduced vault/locker fast vaults by 90%. Too small a radius and too much of an advantage. This proposed reduction takes into consideration all those perks, but it ultimately is a question of what is truly healthy to the game.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1275763#Comment_1275763
And to answer this... weird question... I'm rank 3 to 1 as Survivor typically and rank 10 - 5 killer.
Quick and Quiet never reduced locker or window actions, it reduced the sound only. The only real strength was that there was no cooldown on it, meaning you could effectively fast vault everything untill the killer got in a 8-ish meter region of you. Nowadays there is a 100% sound reduction no matter how far the killer is(which is stronger than the old one in close combat), but you can only use it every 20 seconds(which forces people to slow down a little bit if Q&Q isnt up).
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Things I'd like to see changed about Freddy:
- Freddy being able to still teleport to finished gens aswell(I mean, honestly, we do gotta buff his endgame if we nerf his base game)
- Teleport regeneration taking longer
- People who miss skillchecks when healing, waking both survivors up(like it used to do)
- Placing snares or pallets slowing Freddy to 90% movementspeed(25% slow)
- Wake up clocks not spawning to the opposite side of the map, but randomly instead, so that it could spawn right in your face.
- Snares not slowing survivors as much(I mean, Clown's ability has the same slow and isnt as easy to do as Freddy, and Freddy already has the ability to teleport aswell), like 7,5% is enough to break most loops.
Now, Freddy is basically a combination of Clown, Nurse, Doctor, and a bit of Spirit. That is why he is too strong.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1261345#Comment_1261345
they're going to give him two ultra rares anyway for consistency, they do that with every new and reworked killer. Also they're definitely gonna nerf some of his charge time reduction ones.
huh, I always thought his very rare addons were his ultra rares. So odds are likely they are just gonna make his very rares ultra rare after minor alterations.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1264793#Comment_1264793
Sure, the fact that I got myself killed because I wasn't playing seriously and could then spectate everyone and report to my teammate what everyone was doing offers no mechanical advantage whatsoever. Neither does the fact that I could tell him when the killer was headed toward him thanks to Alert (or just literally seeing the killer and knowing where my teammate is by simply asking him where he is). The fact that he can do these things as well and keep me informed also offers no advantage whatsoever.
If you're in a 4 man swf? Nope, they can already tell whats going on. Best you can do is be an extra set of eyes/ears when looking for the hatch or totems.
Besides, by the time you're in red ranks, you should be able to know all that while playing solo. Hearing something you would know anyway if you pay the slightest amount of attention 5 seconds earlier isnt really a mechanical advantage, let alone that losing a teammate is more mechanically disadvantageous for a team than it is having a spectator ghost for you being advantageous.
Basically:
4 survivors>>>>>>3 survivors+1 spectator
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@Mandy said:
We actually had this discussion on the forum before and no the order of the perks didn't matter, the effects of the perks were irrespective of the order that they were equipped. M&A applies first, then Distressing.
That's kinda nice to know. Altho, somewhere inside I think it would be nice having some perks matter based on their order. Like having a difference between a brute force or stealthy combo depending in which order you place them.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1261304#Comment_1261304
They gonna get reworked xd
Bhvr said they're gonna make him red add-ons either way
I didnt catch them reworking Billy's addons. Most of them are fine as they are. There are only 3-4 extremely strong addons in combination with each other(practically 0 stun and insta revs), the rest is pretty much fine as they are.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1261285#Comment_1261285
My guess would be exactly the opposite, as Distressing is a constant effect and MnA switches depending on game situation :P
But good to know that MnA gives you a not so much distressed TR outside chases and a huge distressed TR in chases. @Predated one more idea would be the anti heal builds with Coulrophobia, which you can use on pretty every killer with a decent TR. I think for Oni this build is a pretty nasty one, but it would also work very good for Nurse or Legion, and would help Trapper or Clown also pretty good. Good to combine with Nurses Calling, Thana or Blood Echo as 4th perk, depending on which killer and addons you have to support this.
Oh yeah, but I tend to go for Unnerving Presence, Overcharge, MnA, Distressing and the strongest Calm Addons on Doc. Just to be able to mess around as a killer. It's actually quite relaxing having everyone pretty much always on madness 3 while you just try to do a 360 swandive from up above.