Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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Translation: 'If you're making a Survivor feel bad; stop trying to win.'
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Ah yes; another 'I'm too lazy to do bones but I don't want to suffer from NoED' post.
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@Bastius123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191097#Comment_2191097
| If you force yourself to die on the hook; you're walking off the field while your team is losing. It's still poor sportsmanship.
The goal of the killer is to kill the survivor. By letting the killer kill them, the survivor isn't walking away from the game. You're thinking of ALT+F4, that would be more comparable to walking off the field. The goal is literally for the killer to kill the survivors. You may be unhappy with how much of a fight they put up, but they still played as much as they need to in order to respect the rules of the game. Your example is bad because you're comparing losing the game to refusing to play it.
| And are you REALLY going to claim I'm at fault for someone ELSE rage-quitting?
If people constantly quit games when playing with you, the constant factor seems to be you. All sarcasm aside, I started by blaming the bad mechanics of the game. However, with you lauding them and aggressively complaining to anybody who doesn't agree, it sounds like there may very well be an issue with your playstyle that leads to people not wanting to play with you specifically.
By the way, a fun little story about sports since you seem to enjoy them. There used to be a basketball player named George Mikan. Guy was 6 foot 10 and quite famous in the league during his days. Back then, there were no rules about how long somebody could hold onto the ball before getting punished. Famously, he'd hold the ball above his head to keep it out of reach from other players, or he'd just sit by the net and literally hit the ball out of the net any time it was able to go in. Back then, few players were as tall as him so there was no way to actually punish it. It wasn't against the rules at all, mind you, but people thought it was cheap and unfun. People stopped attending the games and there were athletes who quit completely, not because the game as a whole was bad but because this one move was not being punished and killed the fun for everyone else. All the same, he'd keep doing it. After all, it's not his fault that the game allowed it, and a win was a win. So, he just kept doing it without a second thought. In response, players would rush to get a single point and then they'd literally just sit on the ball for the rest of the game, knowing that the only way to get to it would give the opponent a fowl. After all, he couldn't do it to them if they did it first. Again, this was completely within the rules of basketball at the time, but it was boring as could be and literally nobody liked playing or watching these matches. It was all within the rules of the game, and nobody was being "unsporting" because they were integral rules to the game. Yet they were awful matches that nobody enjoyed all the same. You can pretend it's impossible for it to be your fault all you want, but if you're playing in a way that is literally no fun, then why would you be surprised when people decide to not play with you? After all, the solution for basketball wasn't to be all spiteful to those who would sit on the ball in turn, pretending that they were somehow morally superior to one another. The real solution? Fix the awful to make it fun again.
Again, the original point was that there were reasons outside of you as an individual to keep these mechanics, but if you're going to pretend it's outlandish that a killer can be so boring and unfun as to actively make people not want to play with them then I'm afraid that you can very well be the reason that nobody wants to play with you. Just like everywhere else in life, if you're no fun or awful to be around then nobody will want to play with you. No amount of stomping and yelling will make people like you. Perhaps, however, fixing the game may help the situation for both sides. Maybe we can start with this new and negative change, don't you think?
| Sure; it's my fault someone quit
I'm glad you understand :^)
The fact that you took my comment out of context to 'get me' shows me you have absolutely nothing of value to say. Continue to whinge on about how Killers trying to win...I mean Killers camping and tunneling and slugging...are bad for the game. And how it's everyone else's fault when you DC like a baby.
Maybe someday you'll accept that the other team tries to win instead of demanding things you don't like get removed like a spoiled, entitled child.
Or maybe you'll quit the game and improve it with your absence, because you sound like the type of person who blames your team, the game, and Killers playing 'toxic' when you mess up.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187212#Comment_2187212
As an adult I find it funny you get to decide what is toxic and what is fun and not fun to others. How do you know that killer slugging an entire team and wathcing them bleed is not laughing themselves until they piss their pants. Also how is tunneling and killing a person or camping them fun for the survivor. You do know getting camped is toxic and not fun so how is as you call it, "toxic Slugging" any better or different?
You in this post tell people to play as they want and suggest to camp and to tunnel which both ruins other peoples fun and is toxic when a survivor is not giving more than in some case 2 minutes in a game. It is toxic to camp a survivor so they die on first hook. You can't suggest to as you say "Play as you want" and then say no wait don't do this because I find it toxic.
I will agree if by some miracle a killer has managed to down an entire team and lets them bleed out that is toxic but there is counters to that. You can run unbreakable or No Mither or maybe just avoid getting slugged and either hide until he hooks someone or try to get someone up. I would also bet whatever amount of money that slugging happens WAAAAAAAY less then getting camped or tunneled and yet you suggest to do more of that and promote toxic behvaior.
I also read how you think slugging does have it's place but NOT when its used to just let people bleed out. Well that is no more or less toxic than everything else you thing is a good and okay way to play and like I keep saying your scenario you are talking about almost never happens if the survivors have at least a hour of playing this game.
I also like to look at other peoples topics to get a feel of the kind of topics they talk about and yours just seemed funny. Its okay to slug and camp and tunnel but then my other post is its not okay to do it when.......If something as you say is a legit tactic and to play however you like screw others then you can't also want to fix the toxic bahvior you are promoting.
It's okay to slug if you know they have DS. How do you know I have DS?
It's okay to slug if it is hatch time or you want to chase someone else. Why not just hook the down person and then go looking? That way you are also not called out for camping and give the other survivors a chance to save the hooked person.
The two post contradict each other. You tell people to PLAY AS THEY WANT and screw others but then complain about toxic behavior and want a way to fix it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246605/a-fix-for-toxic-slugging#latest
Let me put it in simple terms, because I'm rather bad at getting my point across. I just don't communicate well, and I overflow with snark when I'm grumpy. Those two things lead to me losing my own point sometimes.
Toxic gameplay is in the intent.
If I slug someone because I know, or think, someone is around to do a flashlight or pallet rescue? Not toxic.
If I slug someone because I want them to be miserable for 4 minutes & I know I could hook them? Toxic.
If I camp someone because I know, or suspect someone is coming to save them, thereby slowing down gen speeds? Not toxic.
If I camp someone because I want to ruin their game (Frequently done with multiple hits or bell ringing or other 'eff you's to make it obvious)? Toxic.
If I tunnel someone because I see a key, or suspect a purple toolbox, or they are just really good at looping & I don't want to waste more time later? Not toxic.
If I tunnel someone because I think it will make them unhappy? Toxic.
You know what these have in common, barring the obvious actions of hitting a hooked Survivor to show I'm being mean? None of them can be proven either way. Even if my INTENT is tactical, the PLAYER might assume I'm being a jerk.
There is no way to know if THIS person camped to gain an edge or THAT person camped to be mean.
But the people around here don't care; they'd rather use a howitzer to swat a fly. If ONE Killer hurts their feelings because they slugged/camped/tunneled; slugging/camping/tunneling has to go. Who cares if Killers use it tactically! Someone got their feelings hurt, or assumed it was toxic, so screw all Killers; remove any ability to do those things!
And what these suggestions don't realize, or don't CARE about, is the tactical half. If removing camping/slugging/tunneling makes it harder for Killers to win; they are fine with that. Because it means they will have it easier as Survivors. And before you say I'm wrong; what about the people asking for Killers to LOSE BP FROM THEIR ACCOUNTS, or give it to the camped Survivor? They are not looking for a way to 'fix' the problem; they are looking for whatever make them feel better than their opponent, or makes them profit.
So they stomp onto the forums, scream about how they feel bad because they got camped (Read: Because they lost), and now want the tactic used to make them lose removed.
First camping/slugging/tunneling gets removed under the guise of 'fun', then Killers adapt & find a new way to secure kills. Suddenly THAT is 'unfun' and 'toxic' the next time someone gets upset they lost.
Why do you think my idea made it clear I know the difference between toxic and tactical slugging? Do you think it was so I could be a raging hypocrite? So people could point at it and go 'Gotchya!'?
It's because, unlike 99% of the suggestions to fix this #########, I know the difference. Every Survivor main that is whining here just wants it removed or 'punished' in such an extreme way that they are either too oblivious to know how damaging their suggestions are, or know full well it would screw Killers in the extreme.
I still remember one poster here, when told his idea was tried and abused, replied with 'Well, it would stop Killers from camping, so it works.' The only result he cared about was Killers being stopped. Actual BALANCE was not even a thought in his (or hers) head. Killers would lose a tactic, Survivors would be stronger for it. Win/win.
So keep pointing to that gods damned thread and trying to hint I'm a hypocrite, because the actual PROOF is right there that I'm not. For every time I point out these god awful suggestions are horrible, my OWN suggestion is right there.
And the bottom line of my posts. The underlying message? Player agency.
You can't take away a Killer's ability to camp without giving them a giant middle finger & forcing losses in matches.
Imagine if the hook teleported away if the Killer was camping for <x> seconds; Survivors would never go for an unhook until the hook teleports. There goes any gen pressure! Survivors can just spread out and wait until it teleports near one of them.
What about the Collapse? If the hook teleported away when the Killer had nothing to do but camp? What's that? It won't teleport in the EGC? Someone will come onto the forums and scream it should because being camped when you're about to escape is 'unfun' and 'toxic'.
What if the Killer slugs someone to stop a hatch escape? Someone wills cream it's 'toxic' and 'unfun' and they 'deserve that hatch'.
What if the Killer tunnels someone who led him on an 80 second chase? Because 2 gens popped & he knows 2 more will pop if they get away after being unhooked? Oh! 'Unfun' and 'toxic!'
Basically; using 'fun' and 'toxic' as a metric for how the other team WINS, then demanding they only win YOUR WAY, when losing is inherently less fun than winning, is incredibly flawed and has a built-in bias.
Because, according to these very forums, a Killer BREATHING at Survivors is sometimes 'toxic' and 'unfun'. If we went by such a flaws metric as 'survivor fun' and 'killer fun':
- No camping
- No slugging
- No tunneling
- No twerking after dropping a pallet
- No flashlight clicking
- No dropping pallets
- No picking 'unfun' Killers
- No picking 'unfun' perks
- No hatch escapes
- No keys
- No moris
- No twerking in the exit gates
What game would we have, at that point? Tickle Me In The Evening?
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@Bastius123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190163#Comment_2190163
If you die on the hook, that's not walking off the green without finishing the game. That's just losing.
You're the one selfishly complaining that people may choose to accept defeat early for reasons that you and only you are unhappy with. If they want to quit because they're unhappy with a particular thing, then you've still played and you've still won. You still got the stack from the first hook. You still got the points for the chase, the hook, and the kill. If your complaint is that you should have gotten more for what you've done, then make that argument instead. If you think the issue is that too many people are killing themselves to rage quit, then perhaps there's a deeper issue at play than a lack of sportsmanship.
It's also clear that Saitamafed is being quite charitable and reasonable with your argument, but you're refusing to even acknowledge it. Again, I'll boulster what he says once more: If there is an issue leading to a disproportionate number of players to ragequit, then perhaps the problem itself needs to be addressed. People don't ragequit when they're having fun, and people don't suicide on hook if they think that staying alive is the better choice (at least now that the struggle mechanic is gone, far fewer accidental suicides now). If a mechanic consistently leads to survivors trying to kill themselves, then perhaps there's a deeper issue that needs addressing. Or, if I'm feeling less charitable, if a lot of the people you play against are constantly killing themselves and ragequitting, maybe the problem is you.
If you force yourself to die on the hook; you're walking off the field while your team is losing. It's still poor sportsmanship.
And are you REALLY going to claim I'm at fault for someone ELSE rage-quitting? Holy #########, people will blame the other team for EVERYTHING these days, huh?
'It's not my fault I left the game early! It's your fault for making me leave the game early!'
Sure; it's my fault someone quite like a wuss because they did not like my perks, or the map, or my Killer, or that they got downed first, or that they were in a bad mood, or they had a teammate accidently sandbag them, or any of the other million reasons people will invent as to why THEY did not lose or THEY did not quit.
It's always someone else's fault, huh?
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So if I camp because it secures me a win and slows down gens speeds, I'm not playing 'correctly'?
This is the entitled mindset of the people who whine and scream about camping being 'toxic'; they just want to hobble Killers and get easier matches.
Don't tell me how to play. Get the heck over yourself.
Your mindset that 'cAmPiNg Is ToXiC!' is why Survivors verbally attack me & make death threats in end game chat; they figure, since I played 'toxic' by their made up baby rules, they get to be toxic back.
Camping, slugging, and tunneling are tactics; they help me win.
Twerking, flashlight clicking, and such are tactics; they anger some Killers & make them switch targets, thus saving friends.
If you can't accept the fact that the other team is going to use every method (aside from cheating/exploiting glitches) to win; don't play PvP games!
But don't come in here and say I'm not winning 'correctly' because I don't play by your made up trash rules. That's something a child does. 'Nuh! Your win does not count because you broke the no camping rule! I just made it up when you camped me!'
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It's horrible. It's Bamboozle that can be turned off by Survivors.
Hex perks are already pretty terrible, but it sometimes feels like Devs are too worried to make any truly strong hex perks anymore.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190073#Comment_2190073
"You've already agreed to play". Where is the contract where I agreed?
I don't disconnect nor suicide but your point is invalid. Call it excuses if you must but the point remains, everyone is free to do whatever they want, they didn't sign anywhere that says "I swear to play every match, never disconnecting, never quitting, I'll be a fair player"... or if you find that oath, please show it to me.
It's called 'good sportsmanship'. Kind of like how footballs teams don't walk off the field if they're losing, because it would petty and be called 'bad sportsmanship'.
It's also called 'being considerate of others', something people seem to lack, these days.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189756#Comment_2189756
Thats why I was warning him, but I guess I forgot about the one or two that just come to post asking that no one don't talk about fixing camping (because they don't want to loose their crutch)
Sure, yeah. We don't want to lose our crutch.
It has nothing to do with player agency, and our ability to confirm kills.
It's in no way you demanding Survivors be given an easily abuseable crutch instead. 🙄
Keep reading that Survivor Rulebook you seem to think 'good Killers' follow like a bible. Keep whining about how 'unfun' Killers camping you are, instead of learning how to git gud.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189703#Comment_2189703
Yah this woukd solve the issue of camping but needs to be tweaked so that it doesn't stop when the killers in a chase to prevent survivors from looping the killer around the hook. be prepared for a bunch of killer mains to come say that's an abuse thought becuase removing camping as an effective strategy is abusive to killers.
Possibly also somethjng about how easy it is to address camping by either playing against terrible killers you can loop infinitely, or just do gens(never had it explained how to do gens when on the hook but it keeps popping up)
Be prepared for this Survivor main to ignore every single fact thrown at them to claim 'Killer mains just want their easy strat'.
You've been told your wrong by multiple people over multiple threads. Give it a rest.
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Because they are selfish and measure the entire world against their own needs. They are incapable of thinking of anyone else before themselves.
If they are not having fun, they don't care if they screw over the rest of the team, or the game as a whole; they will flip the table & leave. Like toddlers.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189671#Comment_2189671
That depends on your definition of "full game", some survivors are really potatoes and you end with low BP and a 5 min match either...
Being that said, you can't force people to stay in a game they don't want to be. Many online games don't hit the penalty even if those games has them... there are a lot of reasons why a survivor can decide to drop the game and instead of forcing the players, the devs should check why someone decides to DC/Kill themselves and see how they can fix them
As an example, sometimes I have ran into a survivor 10 seconds from the start of the game, needless to say camping is a thing, you can tell me "it s a strategy" but between being on the hook two straight mins or quitting and find a new match. Which one will you choose? And you're not paying people to stay in-game so their time and how they use it is up to them.
No, it's not fully 'up to them'. You're disregarding that you leaving ruins the game for 4 other people; the Killer and 3 other Survivors.
If you (the hypothetical person in this scenario, not you personally), can't commit to a full match, win or lose; don't play.
Don't give me BS excuses about how it's okay for you to bail because you know the match won't be 'fun'.
When you log in, you're entering into a social contract to not be a jerk, and to play the match to the end. Not to play only if you are winning because that's more fun than losing.
And I've been camped. Face-camped, even. I laugh and wait out my time on the hook, then play a new match. Because I don't think my 'fun' matters more than everyone else's, and me dying as fast as possible screw over the team.
Hook quitting (or DCing) is selfish, and the people who do it are saying 'Only I matter to me. I am the most important thing in my life. Everyone else is measured against my needs. I will screw you all over if it makes me feel better.'
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@Brightened said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187886#Comment_2187886
Oh I never said I NEED it to survive. I'm saying the increasing number of toxic killers makes the perk a staple in the game.
Oh yes; because Killers attempting to kill you are 'toxic'.
Why do Survivors think it's 'toxic' for a Killer to go after a wounded Survivor? Do they seriously expect Killers to play stupid, or adhere to some stupid DBD Chivalric Code? 'Thou Shalt Not Hit Unhooked Survivors Until They Heal.
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@Artemisha said:
If a killer camps you......your time on hook shouldn´t advance.....so ez. This way this dog-killers wouldn´t be able to camp and tunnel players.
There is no fun against playing a facecamper tunneler.
Unless gens are repaired or only 2 players remaining.
And then 2 Survivors stand out in the open 50+ meters away, where you can't chase them.
If you go after 1, the other goes for the unhook.
If you don't go after either; the Survivor on the hook never dies.
Which means Killers are forced into giving up the unhook, which could cost them the game.
No so 'EZ', is it?
I mean, unless you WANT easily abused trash mechanics that chase away what few Killer players remain.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189589#Comment_2189589
Well, it gives you more BP also... needless to say, a match with three survs instead of four are easier to deal with...
I'd rather have a full game instead of one where it's ruined for the other team because someone rage-quit.
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No.
If you can't accept that a match may go against you in a PvP game & want to ragequit; maybe PvP games are not for you.
I'm glad giving up on the hook is slower to do now. I am heartily sick of people who giving up on hook because they did not like the map, my Killer, my perks, that they were found first, that they were downed first, that they realized I have a perk with tokens (and thus bail to deny me said tokens), etc.
Giving up on the hook is just another form of rage-quitting. It's no different from force-closing the game; it just dodges a DC penalty.
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If camping, tunneling, and slugging did not get positive results; Killers would not do it.
Killers are trying to win, too. If a Killer camps & 3 gens pop before anyone comes to rescue the hooked Survivor; that Killer will learn that camping is bad.
Conversely, if a Killer camps & Survivors consistently run to the hook; they will learn that Survivors go for unhooks, even when it's dangerous, and that they can get more hooks this way.
But people asking for 'punishments' are basically saying they want to punish Killers for their own bad plays.
They don't think 'Maybe I should not go to the hook 3 seconds after a teammate is hooked.'
They think 'I went to the hook & the Killer was there. He hooked me for trying to save them. That's unfair! That's toxic!'
Or they think 'I got chased, hit twice, and hooked. It's not fair that the Killer stopped my team from saving me!'
Instead, they should think 'How can I avoid being the first downed?' or 'How can I loop the Killer longer?' But they move right to 'It's not my fault. I don't like this tactic. Change it.'
And it's that 'It's not my fault' mindset that leads Survivors to be toxic to Killers in the chat, because they believe the Killer 'played toxic' and 'deserves it'.
And yes; it goes both ways. There are Killers who think flashlight clicking and twerking are toxic, and act toxic back in the chat.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188854#Comment_2188854
Just real quick you could you clarify if your saying camping is the only way for a killer to win because some of your post seems to indicate you do but other parts don't. a lot of killers are saying it's something they don't bother with becuase there are other ways to play but I cant tell from your post which side your on, so if you clarify your stance I'll respond.
I'm saying it's a tactic Killers can use, and you can't remove it without removing that choice.
Removing it would force the Killer into sub-optimal play, or allow unhooks when a death could swing the game in his favor.
Because that's all threads like this are; Survivors wanting to FORCE the Killer into sub-optimal play, or demanding unhooks because they 'walked all the way across the map' for it. They want to remove the Killer's choice in the matter under the guise of 'fun'.
But it's only Survivor 'fun' they care about.
It would be like a Killer demanding punishments for genrushing (not to be confused to knowing sub-7-minute matches are a bit of a bad thing). Like saying 'The generator should teleport away if Survivors are near it for more than 20 seconds. Because when they win too fast, I don't get to play as much as I want'.
Note: That is a direct analogy to a Survivor demanding hooks teleport if the Killer stays nearby, and the fallacy of 'A hooked Survivor does not get to play much'.
If you can't accept getting knocked out of a PvP game by your opponent; don't play PvP games.
But don't stomp onto the forums, demand the mechanics be changed to cater to your 'fun', and expect the devs to go 'Oh sure! Let us totally cripple the opposing player for you!'
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Oh look; another salty Survivor screeching to hobble Killers because they don't approve of how the Killer wins.
And they will continue to throw out 'It's not fun for the camped Survivor!' while also ignoring that it's not fun for the Killer if he loses matches because the game punishes him for trying his hardest to win.
But go on with your little screeching, folks. I know @wxnickxw will continue to ignore all logic in order to pretend his solutions are universally loved, while saying Killers ONLY defend camping 'because it works'.
I mean, that totally ignores that Survivors MAKE IT WORK, because they are sublimely convinced Killers defend camping for easy wins. Not because it can't really be punished without taking away player agency & making Killers leave in droves as they game becomes incredibly lopsided.
If you punish camping, and force Killers to give up free unhooks though any of the myriad of stupid ways Survivors suggest, while not looking at gen speeds; Killers will straight up quit as it becomes almost impossible to win.
I've pointed it out before, but certain Survivors seem hellbent on ignoring it; It takes Killers twice as long to 12 hook everyone (roughly 12 minutes) as it does for ONE Survivor, ALONE, to do ONE GEN AT A TIME with NO ITEMS (Which is 6.66 minutes, btw).
But y'all go on with how camping is 'unfun' because you lost your last match. It's pitifully obvious you just want free unhooks & want easy wins by hobbling Killers.
But keep stomping your feet and screaming like toddlers instead of...oh, I don't know...getting gud.
It's never Survivor's faults. Killers are evil for camping. Killers are evil for slugging. Killers are evil for tunneling. They should never actually attempt to win unless Survivors say it's okay!
And for the vaguely-defined 'fun' of Survivors, Killers should not be allowed to do any of those things. Only Survivors are allowed to try to win! Killers are just here for Survivors to bully! So punish camping now! Make them lose BP! Ban them! If they don't 12 hook, their accounts should be deleted!
Survivors get SWF, meta perks, items, and voice comms! But Killers don't get to try to win unless Survivors approve of how!
How DARE Killers actually KILL people!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Whispers is fine. It lets the Killer know you are 'near by', which can mean anything. It's not an OP perk that needs changing.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
I have enough games end with 2-5 gens as it is, I really don't need additional slowdowns.
That also doesn't fix the problem of "just holding m1" at all. You're still just holding m1 as a survivor but now you're also having to go onb a scavenger hunt to hold m1 for the same amount of time.
True, but I felt that it breaks up the 'just hold M1' parts enough.
I kind of thought overhauling the whole thing to maybe be 'bring parts back, for <x>% progression per part installed' would be too big a change. I felt it would get too much pushback.
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@justbecause said:
Okay so you're killer version of Sluzzy we get it
Because you disagree with me, I must be a troll?
Must be nice, just finding reasons to ignore opposing viewpoints.
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@worriedfeng03 said:
I'm sorry but you're taking this game way too seriously...calling the survivors "prey",
Also, just because camping, slugging, and tunneling are technically "allowed", doesn't make them any less of a major dick move. SOMETIMES I understand camping if it's during the EGC, or if you finally hook that toxic survivor that's been rude to you all game, but most of the time it's plain rude.
I don't take it seriously, but I find it helps me play better as the Killer.
I am hunting them. That makes them my prey. It makes sense. :P
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I swear, people won't be happy until Spirit: Can't see Survivors, blood, or scratch marks. Can't hear grunts of pain. And moves at 0.00000005 meters a day while phasing.
She was already nerfed once; she used to have collision while phasing, so she could bump into Survivors, drop out, and attack them.
Now, she has to guess where you are & where you're going. Plus Iron Will counters her hard.
But trying to out-think her is too hard for many Survivors, who just want mindless loops for all Killers. And then whine that Killers are boring. 🤷
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@KillerKirby said:
Its a mix between an animation lock and lag. The killer has hit the button and cant stop now so its similar to when a survivor jumps a window the action will happen regardless of everything else going on. Also there is just a problem with input lag for everything involving 2 people interacting. Try grabbing people with killer and you will experience it by seeing the grab animation happen only for the survivor to teleport away while your hand awkwardly floats there.
The really annoying thing is that good Survivors can abuse this animation lag to break a Killer grab during an unhook and then, during the Killer's broken animation, unhook the Survivor.
I fell like this should be an exploit, but it's not so 🤷 I'll just go for lunge attacks.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
Throwing an entire game just to chase and kill one survivor is tunneling, not a viable tactic, and only done to be toxic. If you down all 4 survivors and intentionally slug them all to death, the only reason you would do that is to be toxic.
Yes, hard tunneling and unnecessary slugging/camping do exist. If you say that some killers don't do things like that ever, then you're ignorant to the survivor experience.
Watch almost any youtuber/streamer:
If the Killer downs someone & chases the Meg waiting to flashlight-save 'He's SLUGGING!' pops out. Because Survivors think the Killer has to brainlessly pick up the person he downed, regardless of any other factors.
If the Killer chases the person unhooked because he needs to remove pressure on the gens? Or because that person has a perk the Killer wants remove (Like old OoO) 'He's TUNNELING!'
If the Killer hooks someone and does a lap around the hook to ensure no one is nearby? 'He's CAMPING!'
Those are the definitions many Survivors use, that I claim are BS here in this thread.
And it's content creators doing what I just listed in this post that cause their followers to log into the game & verbally abuse me in end game chat, because their favorite youtuber says it's toxic, so they decide to be toxic back.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187440#Comment_2187440
I don't completely blame gen tapping as the sole reason for gens "being done too quickly" as many people say. I honestly think gen speeds are fine, it's map design and weak killers that are the problem.
Survivors having to do something before working on generators would really buff the already powerful killers a little too much imo; depending on what it is at least.
My idea would be thus:
Survivors have to pick up parts nearby. The parts are always around 8-10 meters away (Maybe less; I can't really visualize a meter in game). Basically, there's a slight danger of being seen grabbing parts. But they are always close enough that it's not a mile-long hike.
This also slows down gen speeds; each part added lets the Survivor who added it work on the gen for <x> amount of time (Or until a Great skill check is hit; whichever comes first). Then, they need to go get another part.
If they try to repair without picking up parts; they do so at half speed. This can be useful if a gen is THIS CLOSE to being completed, but a Killer is coming. A risk vs reward thing.
If a Survivor is hit carrying a part, they drop it. If a Survivor tries to run while carrying a part, they drop it.
Dropped parts are claimed by the fog after <x> seconds. Meaning Survivors need to go back to the pile for another.
In this way:
- Gen speeds are adjusted naturally, rather than adding seconds to gen times or slowing down repair speed numbers
- Survivors are doing more than just 'mindlessly holding M1', as I have heard many Survivors describe it.
- Survivors have to move around a bit, which may make them easier to spot at a distance. This makes it more likely Killers will see them instead of stomping around aimlessly. This could help Killers with low map pressure.
I am aware this idea is far from perfect, but I'm trying to make gen repairing more interactive, fix Killers with low map pressure, and adjust gen speeds without just altering some numbers in the code.
(Note: All mentions of '<x>' numbers are because I'm aware that number balancing is hard. This is more a proof of concept than a solid idea, so the numbers can be anything you think is balanced.)
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187212#Comment_2187212
First off I didn't say anything I simply asked a question and left it at that with no response, maybe if you used your "critical thinking" you would understand that , Also I've played since release of this game and I'm rank 1 on both sides I never have to camp the hook for my kills ive probably got more hours in the killer side alone than you have in this game I know exactly why gens are busted but both sides have things like that even though they're starting to dwindle away slowly now , slugging is the real tactic to win vs gen rushers if you want the truth, there isn't enough time to get 12 hooks against top notch players so you run high mobility killers and slug instead of coming to the forums trying to pick a fight with someone who wasn't even trying to be argumentive over your opinion that camping and tunneling are good .... Ok bro ... Have fun camping and tunneling in the low ranks and getting gen rushed to oblivion in red ranks because you want to keep noob habits against veterans I really don't care.
Sure, you did not attack me. You only: Dug through my post history. Linked to another post of mine attempting to call me out like I was being a hypocrite and you were finding a 'got ya' moment. And called it 'Complaining' even though the thread I made was not complaining in the slightest.
But you were not attacking me. Sure.
Also; I clearly know what gen rushing, slugging, and camping are. If you had read that thread of mine you dug up, you would have seen that I said slugging is a tactic, and I was trying an idea that would not limit legit slugging. I've also said, multiple times, that Survivors can do gens, solo, with no items, in 6.66 minutes, and a Killer going for 12 hooks would need 12 minutes.
But, you're here, trying to explain to me that slugging is legit, and Killers don't have enough time to do their goal.
...It's almost like you dug through my post history solely to attack me and did not actually read any further than you had too in order to find dirt on me.
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I don't get this mindset, no offense.
Esport: Let's show how great we are at the game! ...By removing any random aspect. Make it as vanilla as possible.
Like, isn't part of the skill being able to win using all the game mechanics? It's why I don't understand Smash Bros. tournaments that turn off the items and stage hazards; A real team would be able to overcome the full game, be it random maps in DBD or items in SSB.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187137#Comment_2187137
She ignores chase mechanics though. Pallets and windows are pretty much redundant and she can slug better than any other killers.
Ah, the Survivor Flowchart: Can <Killer> Be Looped? Yes/No
If Yes: <Killer> is boring. Please nerf.
If No: <Killer> Is OP. Please nerf.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185530#Comment_2185530
He is also the one now in another place complaining about as he calls it, "Toxic Slugging" and a way to fix it. His response is to give unbreakable pretty much to everyone instead of just not getting slugged. If your entire team gets slugged you did something horribly wrong and deserve it.
Here is the link to his how to fix Toxic Slugging even though above he says to slug and camp and tunnel away because it is a tactic. Overall I am learning he is just someone that wants the game to work to his advantage and does not like when things don't go his way. He says to slug but then gets slugged and now says no slugging and better fix it!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246605/a-fix-for-toxic-slugging#latest
Wow, so children like you attack people based on their posts.
While I accept that slugging, camping, and tunneling are part of the game, I can also accept that there is such a thing as toxic slugging. IE: Slugging the whole team and leaving them to bleed out to ruin their fun.
I mean, heaven forbid I be intelligent enough to differentiate between a valid tactic and a toxic attempt to ruin people's fun. But I guess being an adult is strange to someone who digs through a person's forum posts to find reasons to dismiss or insult them.
@The_Krapper said:
Weren't you the one who wanted gen tapping nerfed and ruin to be basekit?
ANd yes, because gen speeds are too fast. I can take Survivors 6.66 minutes or less to do all 5 gens, and the Killer needs 12 minutes if he is expected to 12 hook people.
Killers would camp less if they had more time to look for Survivors because, as it is now, we feel like we HAVE to remove someone RIGHT NOW to slow down gen times.
I don't get why you and Wyle think having varying opinions is somehow bad? It's called 'critical thinking'.
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No. Nurse does not need a nerf.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249605/how-would-you-solve-camping-and-tunneling
I mean changing the game so that killers can't effectively camp is something that's easy enough to do, I think even the people I've argued with about the issue would concede that it could easily be done but the sticking point is that way to many killers rely on it so they don't want it changed.
I even started asking if they would give up camping if it meant other things they disliked would be fixed(keys was a big issue for killers so I started their) but I think the general view held by killer mains is that nothing would be worth loosing the ability to camp.
I could be wrong though. if there are killer mains who do have something they would like to have changed in the game that they would be willing to loose camping to get, feel free to correct me.
Punishing camping is easy.
Doing it in such a way that you don't take away a Killer's choice to camp when needed, or don't add a mechanic that can be exploited by Survivors, or don't give Survivors free, easy unhooks is hard.
But continue to hint that Survivors just don't want it changed because they 'rely on it'. You never listen to anyone that disagrees with you, do you?
I, myself, have pointed out why your ideas were bad, and yet here you are; acting like you are the magic idea man that everyone agrees with, and Killers just want easy wins.
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@realflashboss said:
Simple. Make killer get a minus - Bloodpoints score while they’re camping every 10-20s. They don’t see their emblem score decrease and aren’t usually bothered by rank. BP would discourage it more.
Add more perks that encourage the killer to leave the hook and not return. Like devour hope or make your choice
No. Screw these stupid 'MaKe ThE kIlLeR lOsE bLoOdPoInTs!' ideas. It's petty BS.
How about we make Survivors lose BP if they work on gens too fast? Hit too many skillchecks and you lose BP!
What's that? Survivors doing gens is doing their objective? SO IS THE KILLER TRYING TO <re-bloody-dacted> KILL YOU!
Survivors need to stop asking for petty trash just because they can't take a loss.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185857#Comment_2185857
its a video so he would have to upload it to yt
Fair enough, but they should.
I mean, downloading random files from a random person is a good way to get a keylogger or virus.
No offense to the OP.
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Why is this a rar file and not an image?
No offense, that's kinda sus, for a file.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
1) Have camping have the intended effect of causing the killer to lose. Make it so that it takes survivors a lot longer to die on hook when the killer is camping them.
2) Bloodpoint reduction. Half the reason I play killer is because you get more bloodpoints. If you have it so that BBQ loses stacks in a verifiable event of camping and bloodpoints deplete at a 100 BP per 5 accumulative seconds within proximity to a hooked survivor (when not in chase, of course), then you're pretty much bankrupting the killer for camping.
3) Make it easier to save survivors who are getting camped. The unfortunate thing about camping is that it's an easy way to secure one kill. A lot of us do it in the endgame for that purpose alone, which usually means we didn't earn it.
1) No. They tried this. Survivors abused it.
2) No. This is a petty suggestion meant to punish people for not playing your approved way.
3) No. Survivors don't deserve the unhook just because they want it. You can't just give it to Survivors, since the Killer's goal is to kill. You're basically saying 'Make it harder for Killers to win because I don't approve of this tactic'.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185651#Comment_2185651
I'm not sure I follow, Killers camp becuase it's an effective way to win. If you increased the amount of time ot takes to do a gen wouldn't that make camping an even more effective strategy becusee they would have even more time to go and camp survivors without worrying the game will end.
I think you might mean reduce gen times to dissuade camping since it would mean that if they camped instead of chase others the gens will finish quickly and they will lose.
Or I suppose increase hook death time since that would also make camping less viable for the same reasons.
Or do you think Killers are going to simply stop camping if the game becomes easier for them to win with camping?
You misunderstand.
Those being jerks aside; Killers camp because gens speeds are so fast that we need someone out of the game NOW. Not 2 minutes from now, but RIGHT NOW.
Because one less Survivor is -25% people on gens.
If gens took just a little longer, we would not feel this crunch, and we could go hunting for new Survivors, because letting one go is not the end of the match.
But as it is, with gens speeds this fast, we NEED an elimination ASAP to slow everything down.
Notice those bolded words? We stop camping when we have more time to do our duty to the Entity.
But I'm pretty sure I told you this before, and you ignored it.
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@DapperTrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185562#Comment_2185562
The slurs you cry about in end game chat sure catch your attention but i guess some nea mocking and t-bagging when you miss every blink as nurse because you're trying to practice as her is not toxic, she's just "getting the aggro". Lol.
Using slurs and insults is different from teabagging and flashlight clicking, dude.
I am a Killer main, and if someone teabags, I know they're trying to make me chase them.
And as the predator, I know to never chase prey that's ready for me. I pick the time & place, not them.
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They worked hard for that save, and if you know it's going to happen; don't open the locker.
Just walk away, or chase the flashlight holder. They can't always set up such an event and, as the predator, it's up to you to pick the time and place where you snap your jaws. If you let the prey decide; they will always pick a place that favors them.
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@Pulsar said:
Gen rushing is also a legitimate tactic, as is bodyblocking and flashlight clicking.
Yes they are.
If one Survivor can tick off the Killer and make him waste time chasing them instead; they did a good job.
Hell, I'd say there should be a BP score for making a Killer switch targets after a pallet drop or flashlight click.
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@The_Krapper said:
Weren't you the one who wanted gen tapping nerfed and ruin to be basekit?
My suggestions are there because I, and many other Killers, are aware that we camp to slow down gen speeds.
Again; the facts are there: ONE Survivor doing ONE GEN AT A TIME, with NO HELP, and NO ITEMS, can clear all 5 in 6.66 minutes.
ONE Killer hooking every Survivor ONCE, and chasing them for the average of 1 minute, needs 12 minutes to kill everyone.
We need TWICE the time to do our objective. So suggesting slowdowns makes sense. I never said my ideas were perfect, but trying to call me out because you disagree did not really work.
Since, you know, I've been on record saying gen rushing is fine; it's Survivors doing their objective. It's just that times, when there's THAT large a gap, needs looking at.
But you do you.
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There is nothing to solve. They are accepted tactics that Survivors need to learn to play against.
They no more need punishments/fixes than 'looping the Killer' should punish Survivors with a loss in BP. (And yes; multiple Survivors are suggested the Killer actively lose held BP for 'camping').
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@LilacandGooseberries said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185397#Comment_2185397
I know that camping is a legit strategy, and I understand it too. I don't play killer enough to start camping but when I see a bright haired Nea or Meg it makes it really tempting. Some survivors are total binches so it's understandable. It would be cool if the devs would add points for getting camped so at least they don't get depipped.
Eeeh. The Survivor should not get an automatic free pip. I mean, does the Killer get a free pip if Survivors bring 4 BNP and speedrun the match?
Being caught (Or losing the gens, for Killers) means you were out played, and thus SHOULD depip.
But the Survivor should still get some BP, at least. They get so much less than Killers as it is.
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@LilacandGooseberries said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185385#Comment_2185385
Yeah. I dont usually get involved on these sites so I don't know the terms.
I'm not saying your points are any less valid. I'm saying it sucks that survivors get depipped over camping.
It does suck. I'm all for Survivors getting 'Distraction Points' or something else while on a hook, for BP. To take the sting out of it.
But I'm always and forever against 'punishments' and such against a legit strategy.
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@LilacandGooseberries said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185358#Comment_2185358
LOL I KNEW YOU'D SHOW UP
I've seen you commenting the same thing in other forums.
Tons of Rank 1 killers use their skills to down survivors and hook them and still win with 3-4K without the need to camp
I'm mostly pissed that survivors get depipped for getting camped.
Other forums? You mean other threads?
And that does not make my points any less valid. You are opening the same thread as they are, so you get the same answers.
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Camping is one of the quickest ways Killers have to slow down gens:
1 Survivor hooked (-25% gen efficiency)
Probably 1 Survivor coming for the unhook (now -50% gen efficiency)
That approaching Survivor is going to get hit, possibly downed, and also hooked. (The Killer does not have to go looking for prey)
So why would Killers NOT camp?
If Survivors just did gens, the camping Killer would lose, or be forced to leave the hook. But as it stands, with how heavily Survivors believe they deserve unhooks, there's ALWAYS someone coming to the hook.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185334#Comment_2185334
The problem is those strategies force survivors to use the same perks every game and that is poor game design.
Yeah. Sure.
And 'good' game design is removing Killer player agency, hopefully in a way that Survivors can abuse?
You still don't get it. Nothing can be done. Anything tired is either easy to abuse, makes it outright harder for Killers to win, or is a spiteful punishment for the sake of being spiteful.
It is a Killer's choice to camp.
Survivors don't deserve that unhook just because they want it.
Camping ensures a death & a 25% decrease in Survivor gen speeds.
All your arguments are a smoke screen for what you, and every other person complaining about 'camping' wants; easy unhooks, Killers forced to 12 hook games, and for Killers to be forced to allow unsafe unhooks.
It's blatantly obvious, given that every suggestion is either abuseable by Survivors, or a spite-filled punishment for the sake of screwing Killers.
And you keep repeating the same things, even after people have told you why, repeatedly, camping can not, and will never, be punishable.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185131#Comment_2185131
So because killers want to use toxic strategies we have to use the same 2 perks every game that don’t even effectively counter those strategies. Great game desgin right there.
They are not 'toxic' just because you don't like them.
They don't need changing just because you don't like them.
You don't get to pick how the opposing side plays.
If you can't accept that the opposing side is trying to win, then PvP games are not for you.
If you can't accept Killers trying to win with LEGITIMATE STRATEGIES, then you will never enjoy DBD. We don't have to stop trying just because you invented a petty rule about 'toxic' gameplay. 🤷
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@BrokenSouI said:
I usually don't even care about keys. Bring 4 of them. Go nuts. I'd say 99 % of my matchs. They don't do enough gens to use them. And even if get down to 2 gens and have 2 people left and escape. It's not the end of the world. GGWP. Too many people feel like they NEED 4K or they have a small pepe or something.
It's not an entitlement thing, it's a logic thing. If Killers did enough to stop the gens from being completed, and 1 or 2 people get a free escape, imagine the reverse:
You did all 5 gens, but the Killer brought an item that teleports 2 Survivors to hooks if they leave through the exit gates.
Survivors would scream up a storm over that. But keys are okay to them.
Hell, they scream over NoED 'being a crutch perk for bad Killers' (and they can turn it off), but keys are fine to them.
Yet Killers upset that a full win turns into a 2 win is being 'entitled', and they 'should be happy' with 2 kills. 🙄