Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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@Munqaxus said:
Camping/Tunneling is not a weak strategy.
You are pretty much guaranteed 2 kills and will usually get 3 if not 4. Everyone saying you can get 3 gens done if someone is face-camped/proxy camped, is not calculating the time to get to gens and the time to realize a killer is face camping/proxy camping. Not to mention if you maximize your perks for face-camping/proxy camping and count to 12 before re-downing someone if a rescue is tried, you'll be constantly winning (more than 2 kills) games.
If a Killer gets 3-4 Kills because they stood near a hook; this is the Survivor's fault.
Why should mechanics/safety nets be put in place to reward, or mitigate the punishment, of playing badly & feeding the Killer? It's like Survivors think they deserve the hook simply because they want it, and the game should accommodate them.
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Can you use Autodidact with Self Care?
Imagine the speed healing on yourself...And does it stack with Botany Knowledge? (I can't tell of BK is 'healing speeds (in general), and the efficiency of Med-Kits' or 'Healing Speeds (of med-kids) and the efficiency of Med-Kids' increased.)
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I said it in the other thread about camping and tunneling but since the threads are copies of eachother...
Camping & tunneling are allowed because nothing can 'be done about it' without introducing a mechanic that falls into one of these categories:
- It's abuseable by Survivors
- It takes away Killer player agency
- It's spiteful just to be spiteful
- It forces unhooks at times when Killers need the kill to swing the game, thus forcing them to lose. And no one wants to play a game where they are forced to let the other team win. There's no point to having human controlled Killers, if the game is going to decide plays that cost the match.
Seriously. Complaining that camping is 'unfun' is like logging into an FPS/Battle Royale and saying 'It's unfun that snipers can shoot me from across the map. I can't shoot them back, and they knock me out of the match before I get to play. Please remove snipers, for the health of the game'.
It's Survivors asking for Killers to be forced to play badly, because they don't approve of how they lost to said Killers. But here's a bit of news; no one likes to lose. You take away 'camping', then 'slugging', then 'tunneling', and then the next way Killers win will be 'cheap'. Then the one after that with be 'unfun'.
On and on it will go; every tactic Killers have will need to be removed 'for the health of the game', because people don't understand that losing is less fun than winning. So they lose, don't have fun, blame the tactic used, and claim it needs to be removed because it's 'unfun' and 'for the health of the game'.
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Camping & tunneling are allowed because nothing can 'be done about it' without introducing a mechanic that falls into one of these categories:
- It's abuseable by Survivors
- It takes away Killer player agency
- It's spiteful just to be spiteful
- It forces unhooks at times when Killers need the kill to swing the game, thus forcing them to lose. And no one wants to play a game where they are forced to let the other team win. There's no point to having human controlled Killers, if the game is going to decide plays that cost the match.
Seriously. Complaining that camping is 'unfun' is like logging into an FPS/Battle Royale and saying 'It's unfun that snipers can shoot me from across the map. I can't shoot them back, and they knock me out of the match before I get to play. Please remove snipers, for the health of the game'.
It's Survivors asking for Killers to be forced to play badly, because they don't approve of how they lost to said Killers. But here's a bit of news; no one likes to lose. You take away 'camping', then 'slugging', then 'tunneling', and then the next way Killers win will be 'cheap'. Then the one after that with be 'unfun'.
On and on it will go; every tactic Killers have will need to be removed 'for the health of the game', because people don't understand that losing is less fun than winning. So they lose, don't have fun, blame the tactic used, and claim it needs to be removed because it's 'unfun' and 'for the health of the game'.
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Just going to leave this here.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200425#Comment_2200425
I think we're having a very valid discussion. And please explain to me why it's alright for you to play in a way that's downright abusive to those that you play against just so that you can try to win but I can't shame you for playing in that way?
Because you don't get to decide what's a 'toxic' play style.
Maybe, if it's posted enough, you will understand it:
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200379#Comment_2200379
Wait a second, I never once claimed that camping and tunneling aren't mechanics or that they should be removed. I simply said that they should be more difficult to pull off as killer.
Don't put words into my mouth
How do you make them 'more difficult' without inventing mechanics Survivors can abuse?
Survivors already have perks to counter slugging, camping, and tunneling; they just don't want to switch out their precious META.
Killers already have perks that encourage laving the hook (Devour Hope, BBQ).
And yet Survivors keep stomping their feet and screeching that MORE should be done! And Killers should be PUNISHED! And camping/tunneling/slugging should be 'made harder' (or, as some have indeed said; removed).
Or that it's 'for the health of the game' while blatantly ignoring that you're removing a Killer player's agency, once you start dictating how they play.
Survivor keep making bad faith arguments about how Camping is 'OP', acting like they were FORCED to go for an unsafe unhook which, by the way, belies the mentality that they just want more free unhooks.
Or how they, and I quote one person 'went all the way across the map' so they deserve the unhook.
A Killer's job is. To. Kill. You. This removes you from the game. Start or end; why does it matter? His goal is not to pat you on the head. Asking for 'punishments' or 'harder whatevers' or 'removal' of CORE TACTICS flat-out makes it harder for the Killer to win.
And that seems to be a win/win, to most the screamers around here; free unhooks, easier matches. No need to think; the Killer is forced to not 'camp', so it's easy to unhook whenever the widdle Survivor mains want.
So I post the picture again; and be sure to read the underlined part:
What is so hard to understand about 'get used to it'?
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200368#Comment_2200368
Yes you as killer should be powerful enough in chase to be able to down survivors and win the match. No the survivors should not be struggling to save another survivor from a hook because the killer is bubba who will one shot you eat the borrowed time while watching a movie on their second monitor.
What part of this do you not understand?
What part of this do you not understand?
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200353#Comment_2200353
An easily abusable strategy should be easily counterable by survivors. All I want is for there to be an equal amount of work and skill required for both survivor and killer. Camping requires high level team work from survivors to overcome right now.
That's because there's ONE KILLER. That ONE KILLER needs to equal FOUR SURVIVORS. Hence why FOUR SURVIVORS (Or three, in this case) need to WORK TOGETHER to equal ONE KILLER.
That's how 1v4 PvP games work. If every Survivor was equal to the Killer in power, then there would be no point to playing Killer. I don't get why this seems strange to you.
1 Survivor should always lose against 1 Killer. Because 1 Killer = 4 Survivors.
Hence why it takes multiple Survivors to fight a Killer for an unhook.
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@Tjiani said:
But post after post about genrushing, teabagging and all those swat SWF team you all run into all the time is just fine or?
You can’t compare clicking with a flashlight or teabagging at the exit gate to tunneling and camping.. tunnel and camping a survivor out of the match is a sure depip for the survivor that is targeted, but as a killer you don’t waste an entire match, waiting 10 minutes in que just to secure some scumbag a hell lot of blood points on your behalf while the only “reward” you get is a depip? You can do almost nothing as killer and still get more points than a survivor doing totems, saves and gens. A few chases and a kill or two and you are on your way.
I get that camping can be nessesary during end-game or if you have a hard time keeping up with gens, but 9 out of 10 matches the tunneling and camping begins with the very first survivor found, so it’s bullshit. Most killers do it because it’s easy, require no skill and gets rewarded by BHVR for some odd reason. Their reason for nerfing ruin back then was for “killers to improve their skills and not just rely on ruin” but apparently its fine to refuse to play the game and taking a survivor hostage until they die without giving Them a chance to play?
Had the pleasure of two tunneling rank 1 huntresses this evening with Iri hatches... the fact that this is still even a thing is beyond me. But noooo this game is definitely survivor sided 😂😂😂
Rofl. You act like camping somehow forces Survivors to reward it. Like, it's the Killer's fault you went for the unhook with them nearby. Then again; 99% of people who whine about 'camping' really just want free unhooks.
The second bullshit in your post is how 'unfair' 'being knocked out of the game' is. That's the POINT of being Killer. You don't get to decide the where or when.
You don't get to say 'Ok, I did 3 generators; NOW the Killer can hook me'.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200333#Comment_2200333
The problem with camping is actively hurting the game from adoption because tunnelling and camping is much more common at lower ranks. People are leaving early and this is happening now, the damage is real and is happening now.
It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.
And your claims of mass exodus of killers has no supporting evidence and is purely anecdotal.
'It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.'
So, basically, you want the tactics removed, even though you KNOW there are ways to counter them, because new players will be too lazy to look up ways to counter them?
Basically 'Remove camping, because learning how to play is too hard'?
And your claims of people leaving because 'boo-hoo, camping is so mean and Killers should be forced to be nice!' is just as much bunk as my claim.
Actually, your claim is MORE bunk, because the game has survived 5 years with camping, tunneling, and slugging. And common sense would dictate that, should you remove three of a Killer players tools in any way Survivors can benefit from or worse, ABUSE; people won't want to play Killer any more.
I mean, unless you're just ignoring the longer queue times for Survivors right now? You know, caused by Killers leaving because their role, the POWER ROLE, is being given the middle finger in repeated updates until just recently?
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200210#Comment_2200210
Maybe it's right on schedule because it's a very real problem that isn't being addressed.
They are valid tactics, and every idea suggested by salty survivors has either been abuseable, made out of pure spite, or would remove so much Killer player agency that it would basically give Survivors free, unearned unhooks & cost Killers the game for things now outside their control.
Then Killers would leave because there's no point in playing a game that forces you to play sub-optimally to avoid hurting your opponent's feelings, and Survivor queues would double.
The Survivors who whinged about 'toxic camping' would then sit on their thumbs, wondering why the game died, because they are having a great time with their easy escapes & free unhooks.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Simple Explanation:
Both sides have their objectives in a match.
When people go and declare tunneling, slugging and camping 'fair and valid tactics' because they help the killer with their objective (sacrifing survivors) and can't therefore be 'unfair' they are overlooking one factor:
In a fair match each party should have an equal chance of fulfilling their objectives.
If you slug, tunnel or camp, you take away the survivors chance to get any of their objectives done, compared to whenyou play fair. Likewise when survivors genrush or hide the whole match through (even if just to wait out the others dying) they hinder the killer doing their objectives
Umm...It's an asymmetrical game. If all 4 Survivors each was an equal to 1v1 the Killer, then the Killer would never win.
Plus, Killing the Survivor remove shim from the match. That's a Killer's goal. Just as it's the Survivor's goal to not die & escape.
Our goals are predicated on making the other side not complete their goal. If you think winning is not 'playing fair' then PvP games are not for you.
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@Mr_K said:
I'm a simple man.
I see a survivor I hit a survivor.
If there's blood everywhere after I'm done, well, thats someone elses problem.
*Glares at Mr K while mopping up blood*
Lousy Killers, leaving blood all over those nice maps. 😋
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@realflashboss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2199915#Comment_2199915
So you’d argue that if the game actually required you to hook and camp let’s say - do you really think the game would stay alive?
I don’t think it would… if it was 75-90% of my games where all I could do was do gens or be the one camped on the hook i wouldn’t play it. Even with how it’s got to now at around 50% of games being played like this I’m playing around half the number of hours in a day I used to because it’s just so boring. I know I’m not alone in this!
Again, you’re missing my point, for whatever reason tunnelling and camping is becoming the GO TO strategy and it’s making it extremely boring as a game. Keep validating it and it’s health for the game and soon the game won’t be viable anymore
You're missing my point; Camping has been in the game since day one, nearly 5 years ago. So it's not some magical, recent development that's going to kill the game.
And given gen speeds, and the need to camp to slow down said gen speeds (A long Survivor, with no items or help, without getting any skillchecks, can do all 5 gens in 6.66 minutes.), punishing a legitimate tactic with any sort of abuseable BS is what will kill the game.
Killers will stop playing the second you remove their choice to camp or hunt, or add some trash mechanic for Survivors to abuse.
But keep going off about how a tactic that has existed for 5 years will suddenly cause every Survivor player to quit, even though it's only a vocal minority whining about wanting changes for EZ wins.
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@realflashboss said:
Honestly there’s no point arguing about tunnelling and camping on these forums. The people who don’t see it don’t play enough survivor to make that judgement cuz everyone I know has seen a HUGE increase in it. It is about 50% of games at least.- and I mean hard camping or tunnelling
I keep trying to make the point it doesn’t matter if it’s a ‘valid strategy’ or not! The argument is that it’s so unhealthy for the game because the killer does nothing, at least 1 survivor does nothing and on soloQ usually 2-3 survivors get to do nothing.
It means there’s no chases, no mind games, no interactions - basically no game. - keep arguing ‘it’s a valid strategy’ and validating it and people will stop playing the game because it’s boring. - THIS is what should concern players on both sides if they want the game to survive!
Ignoring the fact that I called it about someone claiming removing Killer agency is 'for the health of the game', let's look at the 'solutions' to camping:
Make the hook teleport away.
Let's imagine you chased someone, and 2-3 gens popped in that first chase. You now hook that person...and the hook teleports across the map. Now, Survivors are spread out, so it's impossible for the hook to appear far away from the Killer AND every Survivor. So it spawns near a Survivor. They're unhooked in the space of 10 seconds, and both working on a gen together. Before the Killer can even walk across the map.
There goes any gen pressure from having a hooked Survivor. Or, even worse; the unhook came as final gen popped. Or, even WORSE; this garbage idea happens in Endgame Collapse, denying the Killer even 1 Kill. Because he can't stay near the one Survivor he caught, when he as no other goal except 'Get a kill' at this point. Gens are done, gate is open. He got a down, and the hook sods off.
Garbage idea.
A 'No Killer Zone' Around the Hook.
Ignoring that this zone would cut off certain L-Walls and Jungle Gyms, giving Survivors infinite loops if a hooked Survivor were in such a place, it would also allow Survivors to sit under a hooked Survivor a heal before unhooking them.
But the Zone goes away if a Survivor is near the hook! Ok, then Killers would just camp outside the zone, and enter the moment Survivors went for an unhook. Still 'camping'.
Also a trash idea.
Make the Killer lose BP!
If this is an idea anyone agrees with; their whole reasoning behind 'the health of the game' is a bald-faced lie.
On top of that; Survivors would circle the hook to force BP drain.
Trash idea.
Cap the Killer's emblems if he stays near the hook!
See 'Lose BP' above.
Also a trash idea.
Slow the Struggle Meter when a Killer is nearby.
Survivors already abused this one, but here we go again. A Survivor would circle the hook, forcing a slowed Struggle Meter.
And if it turned off 'if a Survivor is nearby', they would just stay 50 meters out, in opposite directions. This would force the Killer to either camp the hook (because 2 Survivors are there), or make him walk away, knowingly giving up an unhook. Because Survivors are too far away to start a chase. And 1 is doing gens while 2 camp outside the chase radius.
Trash idea.
See why camping is allowed? Because every idea would be abuseable or outright spitefully bad, and all would be even worse for the 'health of the game'.
You can tell by how the game is still going strong after 5 years with 'campers' and 'tunnelers'. Clearly an accepted tactic meant to help Killers do their goal is not going to kill the game.
All Survivors who whine and snivel about 'camping' want is easy unhooks and forced plays meant to shackle Killers into sub-optimal play styles so they can win easy. When they say 'It's for the health of the game', what they mean is 'I don't want to play if I can't win every time. Please remove Killer agency'.
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When is the LS?
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Ah yes; yet more 'Punish people for playing in a way I don't like' or 'Punish people for playing optimally.'
Because only Survivors can do optimal plays, amIrite?
Killers are not allowed to do the following:
- Hit an unhooked Survivor. This is tunneling, even if the Survivor bodyblocks you, or just happens to accidentally run into you.
- Hit a wounded Survivor. This is also tunneling.
- Leave a Survivor on the ground. This is slugging, even if you know someone is nearby waiting to flashlight or pallet save. Or if you know they have D. Strike.
- Stay near a hook. This is camping, even if you know, or suspect, Survivors are waiting nearby to unhook their friend.
- Camp in the Endgame Collapse. This is also 'toxic camping', or sometime called 'being a sweat'. Survivors opened the gate; you are expected to let them escape.
- Return to an unhook, even if Survivors are healing under it. This is both camping AND tunneling.
- 3 Gen. If Survivors 3 Gen; it is Killer's fault. They are expected to stop patrolling & give up the gens to Survivors.
- Use certain powers. If you use certain Killer's powers, you are toxic. I had this happen as Hag, where I was called a 'camper' because the idiots never stopped sprinting everywhere. 4th player DC'd and said 'Campers don't deserve a 4K'.
That's all these threads are; Survivors, salty over losing, blame 'toxic players' and 'cheap tactics' and then crusade to get whatever killed them removed. All so they can have easier matches.
And yes; it works in reverse; Killers blaming 'flashlight clicking', 'twerking', and 'genrushing'. Yes, gen speeds are too slow, which leads directly to camping to secure a kill, but 'genrushing' is Survivors just doing their goal; working on gens to escape.
The same as 'camping', 'slugging', and 'tunneling' are all ways the Killer tries to win. But I'm sure some Survivor main will read this and swear up & down that gen speeds are fine, and Killer tactics are 'unfun' and need to be removed 'for the health of the game'. Because all they want are fast, easy wins.
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Umm, no. Killers already have -4 minutes to achieve their goal, so they don't need a second goal on top of that.
And -4 minutes is not hyperbole:
1 Survivor doing 1 generator at a time, without help or items, is 80 seconds. 80 seconds X 5 gens = 400 seconds. Or 6.66 minutes. We will round up to 7, for travel time.
If the Killer 12-hooks (As some Survivors demand they be forced to do), and we assume a chase takes 60 seconds on average (Some are shorter, but some are also longer); that's 12 minutes.
So a lone Survivor can do ALL gens 4 minutes faster than a Killer can chase, down, and hook everyone.
So no; Killers don't need a second objective. Not until gen speeds are looked at. They already have less time than they need.
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You keep using that word (meta). I don't think it means what you think it means.
Wraith is by far not the Most Effective Tactic Available. And also; here we go again; Survivors claiming a Killer is 'unfun' when what they mean is 'I can't mindlessly loop them'.
This way, they can scream for nerfs 'for the health of the game' rather than admitting it's because they want easy wins.
He's Sanic The M1 Killer. He can't do anything but Meep-Meep and hit you. But apparently sneaking up on half-asleep Survivors holding M1 is now OP. Who knew?
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Bloody hell, you're right. Shows how often I play Spirit.
Though mine is still different...kind of...if you squint while standing on your head after drinking 12 jaegerbombs...
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I had a match today where what I can only presume was a 2 man SWF (they were trying to protect each other from EVERYTHING, they were both Claudette, and both wearing the same outfit), unhooked within 3 seconds of me leaving the hook.
They were both injured at that point, so I hit the one that ran TOWARDS me (to be fair; I did come from a different direction than I left, so it may not have been deliberate). Turned out to be the unhooked 'Deet.
Of course; they called me a 'tunneler' in the end game chat. Because Survivors who whine about valid tactics are entitled children.
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@TitEEsANbeeR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195312#Comment_2195312
Apparently you didn't read all that good. I said killers should have to hook one survivor before downing another. I'm a killer too, and i have NEVER downed a survivor, leaven him down and try to down the other 3 in hopes noone has unbreakable so i can beat all 3 because it's pathetic. So you can call it salty, boo hoo whatever, the fact of the matter is, they've made it way too easy for killers. If that is your playstyle to camp, pick up last survivor and carry him to the hatch, close it, then crouch up and down, acting like a jackwagon, or other lame tatics the most are doing, then you are unskilled and weak. Game used to be balanced making it challenging for both survivors and killers, now it's a hurry up an get whatever points you can before you die because of op'd perks. And if it weren't true then many killers like yourself wouldn't be so quick to respond about wanting them to balance the game out so you actually have to use some skill and hunt down survivors.
Your post is nothing but trying to shame how I MIGHT play while pretending you're the better Killer (when I doubt you even play Killer). Which is the tactic of scrubby Survivors trying to get easy wins.
'Lame tactics' and 'pathetic' and other little buzzwords meant to shame Killers into not trying their hardest to win.
And your post literally said 'A killer should not be able to down another survior until after he hooks one first'. Which means the Survivors, immune to being downed, would just bodyblock hard to prevent that first hook.
But continue to pretend you're a 'better' Killer because you NEVER camp or slug. I don't give a <redacted> what you do to win. I also don't give a <redacted> what stupid little rules you make up to hobble Killers.
But just admit it for what it is; a thinly hidden attempt to shame Killers into not trying. Because you want easy Survivor wins against Killers trying to play 'nice' and not be 'toxic'. That's all these insipid little made-up rules are.
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@TitEEsANbeeR said:
Camping is getting ridiculous. Tunneling i don't have so much a problem with because it is the killers job to sacrifice surviors awarding them points and is actually a smart tactic. Camping , however is a weak tactic which really is shocking to see session after session by even low rank killers now, who really shouldn't have to camp because say what you want but devs have made it so easy for killers. Most are op'd now and if a player learns how to play them , they should never have to camp. Played a session earlier where the killer downed all four surviors, none of them having unbreakable so what happens? Survivor team is screwed. A killer should not be able to down another survior until after he hooks one first. Be nice if they got back to balancing the game and stop making it so easy for the killers. Along with the crap about the killer being able to close the hatch now which is stupid. The killer moves faster, can cover both exit doors easily because it takes awhile to open one. Time for them to start getting rid of some perks like the idiotic exposed allowing killers to one shot surviors, and get back to making it a challenge for killers to play not just survivors. Oh and i play killer too, and i have never camped. or pulled lame tactics to win because I like alot learned and know how to play a killer. js
Rofl. 'A Killer should not be able to down a second Survivor until he hooks the first,'
*Bodyblocking the hook intensifies*
Just imagine that; Survivors are immune to going down, so all 3 remaining upright block the hook & follow the Killer around, slowing them down & blocking chokepoints & hooks, immune to being incapped, because no one was hooked yet.
Your post is nothing but 'Boo-hoo, Killers can win too easy. And I'm a Killer, trust me.'
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Your mistake is thinking the Devs care about Killers.
Just wait; they'll eventually address the complaints about 'camping', 'slugging', and 'tunneling' being 'unfun', and it will get harder for Killer's to win. Survivors will smugly say that this is 'part of the game' whenever a Killer gets upset. (Notice how it's never 'part of the game' when a Survivor is unhappy).
Then Survivors will start bitterly whining about how dying is 'unfun' and Killers will then have to ask permission to attack Survivors.
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@Sadiii said:
Changes that I'd like to see for the Ghostface that'd increase his quality of life:
- Hooked Survivors can no longer reveal the Ghostface whilst in Night Shroud
- Survivors in the dying state can no longer reveal the Ghostface whilst in Night Shroud
- Spine Chill no longer trumps the Night Shroud ability
- Survivors must be oriented and facing in the direction of the Ghosftface to reveal him
With regards to his addons, other than the power recovery ones, they're all hot basura. The issue is what can they be changed to? Your guess is as good as mine. I feel his weakness lies in looping so perhaps things to address that?
One change I've been thinking about is the "Ghostface Caught On Tape": Survivors who reveal the Ghostface in Night Shroud are Marked for 30 seconds. Strong for sure, but it is an Ultra Rare.
Any thoughts?
Gods, don't I wish for all of them. it's stupid in the extreme that downed & hooked Survivors can break his power.
Then again; Ghostface is a victim of the mentality that all powers need a built-in counter, but they were too lazy to think it through. They just went 'Survivors can break his stealth' without thinking about: looking around corners, being hooked, or being on the ground. It was just easier to make it work all the time.
Mostly because Survivors are the $$$ of this game.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195153#Comment_2195153
I can't wait for them to give GF the overheat mechanic.
"We will be updating the Ghost Face so that he starts sweating vigorously in fear someone will reveal him while holding down the stalk button, taking him out of stealth mode after holding it down for 3 seconds."
You forgot the mechanic: Survivors can now fight back; Whenever GF attempts a stab, Survivors can hold the power button & fight Ghostface for his knife. If they make an Easy Skillcheck, they take his knife & stab him with it.
GF can cancel this attempt if he passes the new 'Jesus That's Impossible!' Skillcheck; he has to stop the arrow on a 1-pixel-wide mark, while the skillcheck bounces around the screen at 10 times a second.
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Probably around the same time they remember Nurse used her power to MOVE as well as attack, and thus remove the stupid AF interface-screw cooldown, since she now has tokens. Both together are stupid on a new level.
So basically; never. Because it would make Survivors angry.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2194133#Comment_2194133
It is used 24/7 because so many killers want to tunnel and camp. If killers didn’t do it so often then a lot less people would us dh
Ah yes; everything can be blamed on Killer's camping and tunneling.
Lag? Killers tunneled or camped your modem!
Strong Survivor perks? Because Killers tunnel & camp.
Went to The Game when no one used an offering? Damn those camping & tunneling Killers!
Stepped in a Trapper's bear trap while he was across the map? Clearly he was tunneling you into that trap!
Survivors are really stretching to blame everything on a tactic they just don't want to man up & play around. 😂😂😂
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Grabs are such a weird thing.
It's like, the latency issues makes it look like you are grabbing while the game says 'No, you did not grab in time' but the game ALSO forgets that, if it's not a grab, it should be an attack. Both are M1.
And the fact that Survivors can literally bait this out for unhooks feels like an exploit, but that's neither here nor there. I mostly just lunge, since I'd rather an attack that 100% hits, instead of a grab that 0.000000000000001% works.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2194613#Comment_2194613
She can still blink through windows and pallets. She moves at 96% put that to 110% and that makes her move 14% faster.
My goal is to make her have more consistent counterplay while also being easier to play as
Yeah, I mathed wrong.
But pallets & windows are solid, so that was not something you specified.
But still; moving her ability to go through walls takes away more than half her power's strength. It's a straight up nerf under the guise of 'counter play'.
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@Phasmamain said:
Nurse needs a huge rework imo. Similar to Freddy (hopefully not a disaster like his though).
id test making her 110% and having her unable to blink through solid objects. This makes her easier to pick up and gives her solid counterplay on the survivor side.
So she would basically become another loopable Killer that is still slower than every M1 Killer in the game? This would make her utterly useless, and she would be only 4% faster than she is now.
If anything like this was done, her power would have to have tokens & no tunnel-vision at the end. As your ideas sit on its own; she would be utterly garbage; she would still be slower than every M1 Killer, BARELY faster than a Survivor, and now loops & pallets would end her.
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Umm...You bleed out in 4 minutes. And if he picks you up & drops you, your wriggle meter fills. So '20 minutes' is highly suspect.
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I have to disagree. Killers already have only 6.66 minutes (or less) to find and hook Survivors 12 times (if they do not 'camp', 'tunnel' or other Survivor-biased buzzwords).
Adding yet another mechanic to waste a Killer's time won't be well received. Plus, if a Survivor sees him light a totem; they now know where it is.
And if they are in a SWF; now everyone knows where it is.
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@DontNerf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/250317/you-know-why-plague-is-the-least-picked
Just watch otz's plague streak. That will show you how "trash" she is
Otz can 50 win as any Killer. High-level skill players is not indicative of how the other 99% of people play. Or even can play.
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I thought it was because she's a pain in the glass?
ⁱ ʷⁱˡˡ ˢᵉᵉ ᵐʸˢᵉˡᶠ ᵒᵘᵗ
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Ah yes. All Killer perks should turn off after awhile, even those that you can manually turn off. Because doing anything other than generators is too hard.
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Nah, Survivors don't all him OP. The new complaint is 'boring' or 'unfun'.
They will demand something that makes the game boring or unfun needs to be changed so they can have more fun. And it's almost always at the expense of Killers.
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@Noz said:
"Killers are mean and should respect the other peoples fun by not tunneling/camping."
Meanwhile I have yet to see a survivor be like: Lets not finish this gen, the killer is having a bad game. It would not be very fun for him, if we finish this now.
Of course not, that is not the objective of the survivor. Ignoring the fact that survivors doing their objective is not fun for the killer. But who cares about that.
Well said. It's always 'Killers should sacrifice for our fun'. But it never goes in reverse. That's why these threads are so hypocritical.
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@KrosseKrabbePizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192134#Comment_2192134
Yeah if you only play killer, you will only find whiny survs, thats true.
First of all, i never meant to cry about tunneling and camping in this thread. i was asking, how devs could change the game to decrease it, but you guys don´t read threads correctly, you only see the "crying" part in it.
So i won´t discuss with you, because you clearly only play one side (which is perfectly fine). I play 80% survivor, i know i am more survivor sided on my discussions, but at least i can admit, that there are a lot of crybabies on survivor side.
Also only because you upvote your posts doesen´t mean, that you are right, you know?
'Also only because you upvote your posts doesen´t mean, that you are right, you know?'
Did you accuse me of upvoting my own posts? Because people can't upvote their own posts on here. But grats on accusing me of something I can't actually do. That's up there with the person who said it's my fault as Killer if Survivors DC.
And if other people upvote my posts, it's clear they agree with me.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192100#Comment_2192100
Patroling....ok. Camping sucks.....and who camps is because he is going to tunnel at 99%.
I don´t want killers lose the game. I just want they use tactics better for the gameplay experience. Killers need something to compensate camping is not allowed? Ok. Give survivors 6 gens to do, make survivors repair slower when someone is on hook....Idk... But that bad mechanic shouldn´t be meta game.
Why is it a bad mechanic?
The Killer's goal is to kill you. Why do you get to say 'I don't like this way of dying; remove it'?
It's a PvP game, after all. Do you think it would be okay to log into CS:GO and say 'I get sniped within 3 seconds of match start. Remove snipers. They're unfun because I don't get to play'? No, because the enemy teams goal is to kill you. They're just using the tools the game gives them.
But, for some reason, Survivors seem to think that they have some right to either demand, or shame, Killers into playing 'right' and writing rules and demanding changes to make the game follow their made-up rulebook.
I'll say it again; The Killer's goal, is to kill you. Not to ask you if you had fun. Not to make sure you fill a fun quota.
Losing sucks, so being stuck on hook sucks. But it's a PvP game; someone is always going to lose. But you don't demand player agency be taken away because you don't approve of how they won, or disapprove of how you lost.
And yes, gen speeds do need to be looked at. I'm a firm believer that camping will decrease if Killer's are not feeling the time crunch to remove someone ASAP because they have around 6-7 minutes to work with.
But adding a 6th gen would be too much. It's just more 'mindlessly holding M1' that Survivors dislike, and it may add too much time.
Maybe minigames? Like how Among Us does it; where you have to tie wires together, and put gears in, and add fuel. But all done on one generator. Puzzle-like, and more interactive, is what I'm saying.
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Maybe they hope for a save? Or maybe they just want to make the Killer waste a minute or two? There's also times I've seen streamers spite their own teammates by saying 'He's waiting for the hatch, so I won't give up'.
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@KrosseKrabbePizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191977#Comment_2191977
You know you can completely turn this dumb ######### around on killers who cry about every surv mechanic?
Why are you so toxic about this? it was just a premonition, what could happen when you decrease gen speed. But yeah why should you allow a normal discussion when you could simply ######### around like a little baby?
Because I don't see Killers crying that Survivors should be punished with teleporting generators or losing BP if they hit too many skillchecks.
Because I've had Survivors literally say it's my fault if Survivors DC against me. Like I somehow magically control their minds & make them pull the plug.
Because I've watched Survivors cry about every mechanic & tool Killers have at their disposal (tactics, Killers, perks like NoED), then act like they are the victims here.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192081#Comment_2192081
Whiney Survivors and Killers are a vocal minority. Well, maybe not minority, but they are just vocal nerds. Most Survivors just go through a trial as normal, and bug out at the end to find the next match. Same with Killers.
I personally don't subscribe to the idea that playing a side automatically makes someone suddenly toxic or bad. It's reducing thousands of players to a single sentence that doesn't represent anything accurately.
Fair enough. I'm just poking fun at these forums after all I've been told in the 2 weeks I've been here. :)
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@dbd4life said:
in my opinon camp is a problem, tunnel is less. tunnel can be evaded with good perks and gamesense, but camp is a problem especially for solo players.
But if you remove or punish camping, you're literally punishing Killers for trying to win.
There are more times where camping is a legitimate tactic than times where it's used to troll people.
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Hey, this is all stuff I've been told on this very forum.
There's a thread in F&S where someone outright blames me, as Killer, for Survivors DCing. Like it's my fault they ragequit. 😂
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Survivors believe playing any Killer is toxic, any perks are toxic, slugging, camping, and tunneling are all toxic, and that Killers have to throw if Survivors 3Gen.
So I'm not surprised people DC against a weak Killer like Trickster. Expect them to come onto these forums and whine that the DC penalty is unfair.
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So, what? I'm supposed to give Survivors the generators if they 3 Gen?
Oh, but I'd be called 'entitled' if I talked about a 3 Gen and said Survivors should just throw themselves at me.
So Killers can't slug, tunnel, camp, and are expected to give up if Survivors 3 Gen. While Survivors run 4 meta perks each, plus SWF with voice comms.
This forum is just Survivor mains trying to low-key (and not so low-key) shame Killers into never trying, ain't it?
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@KrosseKrabbePizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190361#Comment_2190361
This! Because why stop camping, when the survivors will do less gens with decreased gen speed. I think it will bring out more campers, they can simply sit out the game, waiting for one survivor die after another.
The Survivor Main mentality; Remove camping, slugging, and tunneling. Literally remove the Killer's ability to apply pressure & win. But gen speeds are fine.