Philscooper
Philscooper
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@thrive2survive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029774#Comment_4029774
Always blame the parents. Never the children. If this type of behavior is supported by….BHVR…then that's on them. It's a common law of life that most people don't know what they want. It's just sad that the games own creators feel the need to give in to community whining about such trivial things. Lots of wasted development time that could've went toward many more important matters is all we truly got out of these last few months.
"survivor sided devs" btw
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@trn2la said:
PSA…
Killers do tunnel. no doubt. but before you go abusing a killer for tunneling, how much attention where you paying to other peoples hook status.
I come acroiss many games where survivors dont seem to even notice they have a team mate on the hook. I see survivors going into the void, coming out of the void and starting a fresh generator all while a team mate is on the Hook. Sometimes, that survivor was hooked by me on their very first hook, and there they stay through all stages until sacrificed :/I also get accused from time to time of tunneling even though I didn't. I don't want to tunnel and I don't need to tunnel. I'm quite an experienced Killer Main (Huntress) 3300 hours. I certainly don't need or want to tunnel and yet I get accused of it every now and then.
This suggests that some survivors failed to notice the fact there was another survivor hooked in between their last hook. I admit, I can come back to you after hooking a differnt survivor awfully fast, but none the less it's not tunneling.
One other scenario where I suppose I do tunnel is where a survivor may have been the last one off of the hook, but I go to patrol a generator and the survivor does not run, they just continue working on the gernator as if now they have FULL IMMUNITY!!!! simply because they were the last one hooked. Under those circumstances I get annoyed and hook you anyway, because even though you are ignoring the killer, I will not ignore a survivor who is blatantly flouting any kind of ethical killing attitude (jesus that sounds like an oxymoron) I might be inclined to try to follow.
Another circumstance where I might tunnel you is if you were the last survivor to come off of a hook, but to save your team mate from being the next, you flash light stun me. I drop the survivor I was holding and come after you and successful down and hook you. im sorry but too bad. You do not have blanket immunity from the killer simply because you came last off of a hook. this is a ridiculous abuse of these un-written rules.
To try to make actualy hard limits by way of the developers implementing punishment's for the killer if they do tunnel under these kinds of circumstances will ultimately destroy the game.
We have to be careful not to give survivors immunity from being hooked simply because, and for no other reason that the fact they were the last person to be hooked. there has to be some caveats.
I am all for some implantation of measures to slow blatant and reckless Tunneling, camping and Multi-slugging & Long time Slugging.
But even with slugging, too many surviors cause their own slug fest and even though the killer picks them all up, then blame the killer for slugging. this is ridiculous logic if looked at reasonably. case and point: where groups of survivors seemingly crowd the kiler and stay near the killer as he/she downs the surviors. The survivors should be running/hiding, not acting like they have some kind of invisible forcefield around them in the form of an un-written "Thou shall not slug" rule set.
All's I am saying is can we all be reasonable when thinking about what is or is not appropriate in game, or are we all just trying to get things bent to our satisfaction for winning? Because if that's your goal you are going to destroy the game and then get bored with it.im just saying, people did the same ######### before and after baskit bt came out and how "it would ruin the game"
to this day people think basekit bt was a bad thing and something they pull out of their ass as a dumb "gotcha"
did it ruin the game?, no
was killer impossible?, no
if killers can handle the most worse dbd in the past with old dh,
they can certianly try to evolve in a much better and fun stratergy other than the same 3 boring ones we already had for years.
the game will not die if the killer cant tunnel and slug anymore (unlike what some old ex dbd dev said)
the game WILL die if soloq survivors are punished more and more for no good reason.
why would any casual let alone any new commer who sees how punishing it is compared to killer,
think if they should invite their friends and not do it because of how awful the beginner experince has been FOR YEARS.
and no, even the new ips wont save them, they will eventually run out or cant rely on it. -
@Kliveran20 said:
can behavior stop punishing killers for playing the game?
you mean instantly slugging and tunneling at 5 gens?, no.
and we see when we do reward killers for "playing the game" how well that turned out, especially this update for like the 10th time, that no, "buffing killers will solve the game" it does not.
they WILL slug, they WILL tunnel and they WILL camp unless punished or making it nearly impossible to do so. -
this is the only community to actively sabotage themselves by bringing harm or neglect the most weakest aspect or side of this game, either soloq or weak killers.
defending killers like ghoul to oblivion, even if its exploits or bugs.
kill off items that actually harm high tiers like singu and spirit actively.
deflect any qol soloq gets, even if its as small or pointless like hud update and,
while advocating for more buffs to the stronger side…for some reason. -
@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029063#Comment_4029063
I don't think anyone has ever said that. Everyone wants new classes for both sides.
they dont say it, yet somehow, they either act like it does or magically ignore and go every route imaginable, buff slugging, buff tunneling, nerf gens, nerf survivor classes, the gist, heck, they might even rotate and be delusional enough to say "just add x killer" like that fixes anything.
its just so wierd how they are so allergic to giving survivors even any slight of content, no matter how small, no matter if its a small qol, its just, a wierd behavior i cant explain, even for myself as a biased main, i dont just ignore a side or dont want them to have nothing.
i dont just go out of my way to suggest to buff or nerf just for the sake of it. like my bloodgen anti-3-gen suggestion. -
@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027951#Comment_4027951
What do you mean? An 8 man SWF or just playing with a large group of friends in general was something they advertised and promoted since they ever brought up the first 2v8.
there is zero reason to invite my friends to play dbd whatsoever.
which is why the queues is lacking and gapped this much, the devs dont care, the community doesnt care.
yet they shout "too long killer queues" as if adding a single new class instead of killers, would break the game and kill servers or something. -
Kinda ironic how they neglect the chance to make people with large friend groups play 8 man swf, but they rather spam more into killer when the novelty of killer duo and already existing killer combos isnt enough
downvoted but still complain about queues being 30mins, keep shooting yourself in the foot. -
Same guy that says that tunneling doesnt exist.
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026771#Comment_4026771
I think people know about it, but just because there’s an option to close it doesn’t mean people are going to do it, even if they should. It’s just way too tempting for people to be toxic to each other. Best to just not give people the option. There is literally no upside for having an endgame chat.
being wholesome, saying gg, contacting eachother to play more.
it does happen, its rare, but i dont think that would solve the toxicity issue as an whole. -
@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026767#Comment_4026767
It still doesn't change the fact that the killer role has only lost content. First they lost the unique killer coop powers from the first 2v8. Then out of the 4 classes, Shadow was the most fun one and it got nerfed. And finally they removed a killer from the roster. All this while giving survivor the strongest tools they ever got in any game mode like mid chase healing or rebuilding pallets.
And as all of that was happening, queue times never got better. Its been a whole year since 2v8 v2. Making killer miserable won't help queue times as clearly shown from the lackluster updates.i mean if you gonna bring up things they removed or gutted,
herbs from the resident evil 2v8, fog-crystals or the fog-vials and guide class.
(or the older classes back in v1)
meanwhile killers new addition every new iteration while survivors get temporary things that wont even last long,
we get lucky if survivors get a class change which they love to do for some reason.
nobody asked from anyone for them to change and remove these things from survivor, besides legion
i kinda dont see how this even conflicts or make the good arguement of "survivors shouldnt get new classes"
or defending the "survivors qol is new content".
survivors are miserable to play since its just mostly a 1v4 copy with increased numbers, atleast killers get new stuff within just their kit, classes or being able to duo with a killer, liecensed killers aswell for free. -
Because we havent seen enough kaneki, blight and nurse before the update.
Lets just pretend like if we did the opposite,
people wouldnt be so "pressured" to play meta and surely not abuse the weakness for easy wins.
Ideally would love for them to add blood-gens to corner gens only. Free gen pressure and almost no way to have your teammates 3 gen you + elusive statue effect.
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@dbd900bach said:
The last ptb changes for killer were scrapped because they allegedly held the killers hand too much, meaning it guided the flow the game much too heavily, implying a right way to play. The devs have always leaned heavily on player agency, or at least thats what they say.
I think one of the issues with this ptb and the last ptb is a lack of understanding towards why tunneling exist, and mistaking what they see as player agency which is actually player necessity. Tunneling feels necessary. Killers do not tunnel because they want to tunnel, they tunnel because they want to win. Survivors can be given all the protections in the world, and tunneling will still be one of the most optimal strategies because there isn't an alternative. Killers want an alternative. I don't want to tunnel and I'd like to think everyone else is tired of being pressured into feeling like they have to or they're throwing the game.
Bloodlust isn't even a good reward for the killers its meant to help. Ghostface is one of the weakest killers and he can't even benifit from bloodlust because he's better off going undetectable. I'd prefer the old rewards because it was at least a tangible benefit that was a step towards not needing to tunnel. The survivors can keep their protections to punish tunneling, but killers still need an alternative because killers are punished more for not tunneling than they are for tunneling.
I think everyone who plays survivors can agree, you never want to be tunneled unless you have alot of hours or have a full anti-build.
Otherwise it makes no sense to want to risk yourself die early on and lose the game.
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If we actually and eventually get the basekit anti-tunnel changes. This is something ill happily trade away.
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@Colt45m said:
Ok I get competitive games like this is going to have toxic behavior. It's normal but teabagging at the exit gate wasting yours and the killers time is kind of obnoxious. I think like just in the vicinity of the exit gate if the killer hits you it should block the exit gates for 2 seconds. It might be a way to discourage the behavior. Thoughts? I personally think it could be a positive thing for the game.
This being the most common complaint killers have, will never not be funny.
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@Classic_Rando said:
BHVR should just get rid of endgame chat. It serves no purpose other than to give people a way to be toxic and hateful to each other.
There is an option to close it but i guess people just dont know about it.
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@Metagamer said:
It feels like to me no matter how accurate/factual the thing you say is, no matter how much proof you have to back it up or how basic yet obvious of a statement it is, you will have atleast a 33% downvote to upvote ratio.
I mean I could genuinely say "I think Trapper is way too weak and needs buffs" and if that gets 60 upvotes, I would still get ATLEAST 33 down votes. It genuinely has me perplexed that someone could disagree with some of the stuff people have said here, relating to both survivor or killer side experiences.
Can we please like shine some light on this? Because I feel like this is a major obstacle that prevents feedback from being seen as it should be to BHVR, as they may see something VERY correct/a good idea but see a 50/50 split on upvotes to votes and go "oh it had mixed reactions we don't wanna consider that".Even if bhvr did smth to this.
It wouldnt stop people being biased and constantly whine about survivors getting a buff or killers getting a nerf every, god damn, time.
Fog-vials didnt need to be gutted contrary to what dbd twitter said.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026532#Comment_4026532
I said that if a killer wins, they're more likely to win with the 8k (the stomp) than it is to tie with a 4k, I didn't say Killers are winning most of the matches because that's not what's happening at all in the current state of 2v8. I guess its also just okay to ignore the fact that survivors have consistently managed to get everyone to escape whenever they win.
Point is, right now, a lot of matches don't last very long. Its not fun to sit around a 20 min lobby only for a match to last 3-5 minutes.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026630#Comment_4026630
The first 2v8 didn't have the overpowered survivor classes AND there was no way to save a downed survivor, yet queue times then were as long as it is right now.
It has been 5 2v8s since the first one where they diminished the killer role, added ways to save downed survivors, added very powerful classes for survivor, nerfed shadow, and even removed one of the kilers survivors were complaining about. And YET queue times haven't changed. Your argument holds no weight."The first 2v8 didn't have the overpowered survivor classes AND there was no way to save a downed survivor, yet queue times then were as long as it is right now."
You forgot the 2nd iteration where its the only time we got actual new content and not just a quirky side objective nobody cared,
it decreased queue times and made survivor mains actually bother playing survivor to try out the new classes.
Now all we got was qol, which wont make anyone play the game, legion shouldnt have been added in the first place and instead make more classes unique to 2v8.
If they bug-fixed killers, you wouldnt say "oh they got new content" its just made killers playable. Thats not the same thing.
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@BongoBoys said:
Matches only last 3 mins in this gamemode Gens fly and it's a massive issue Devs need to look at and Tweak also listening to 2 gens pop every 30 seconds also has a slight insanity effect to it
You already gutted guide which was the only class that made soloq bearable
Screw over anyone who prefers actually doing the objective over something boring, you could do in 1v4.
Even if you get your wish, queue times would increase and i doubt you want to wait another 15mins out of the alr 30.
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i would love for them to stop adding killers and add classes instead for both sides.
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026387#Comment_4026387
Killers don't like q times, they have it bc so many ppl want to play killer in 2v8 compared to 1v4 where everyone prefers Survivor due to the ptb changes that'll be coming out
its been like that since the first iteration so blaming "1v4 ptb changes" or "1v4 is too hard o killer" is just blantly wrong when it was the same after kaneki came out and dms was still 50s
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@BubblyT said:
Is it just me, I seem to get really low scores for being the Scout in 2v8, despite following the killers for most each game? Have I missed the point of being a scout? Its also difficult to know for certain if the team reveal aura is working or not.
this has been made fairly obvious since you dont get anything for revealing the killers
(idk why they cant just make it work like myers stalk with the bp)
besides the aura read for yourself
or repairing pallets which is laughable.
but they are probably more busy fixing bugs or adding more killers since everyone is asking for them -
i just wish they added more variety for survivors, but whatever, guess killers like long queues, its what the feedback/stats suggests, sad.
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@Roco45 said:
Eh they get flack because the community is beyond toxic. This game has devolved into "How to punish the other side" and not at all about having fun and interacting with the game mechanics. In fact most matches are about circumventing or preventing game mechanics for the other side.
They also lump all sides of the game into one, which makes it impossible to achieve balance. SoloQ needs targeted changes, SWF need targeted changes, S-Tier Killers need targeted changes and Lower Tier Killers need targeted changes. BHVR is unwilling to do any of that though and instead lumps everyone on both sides together which creates a merry go round of imbalance.
Like do SWF's need any semblance of anti-tunnel? No, but SoloQ sure does need it, though any changes that benefit SoloQ are too much for Killers to deal with in SWF's, so then Killers need to be rewarded for not tunneling or slugging, rewards that S-Tier Killers absolutely do not need nor deserve. End product is a more convulted game with reudced player agency because BHVR can't develop actual balance changes.
i agree but this wouldnt solve the tunneling issue,
so it is just unavoidable to eventually put more obstacles in the most easiest way to play killer.
i honestly do not see the issue in making tunneling an actual challenge just like seperating hooks, bring out a new meta of juggling between survivors. it may be still frustrating but it gives survivors alot more of a fighting chance than just tunnel one guy out and win in 3v1 macro. -
@UndeddJester said:
Hi BHVR,
I've noticed there is this general tone lately of "calm down, don't get mad" in your communication with the community. Now there have been some pretty sizable disasters that have led to backlash, but there is one consistent problem you've always had, even in regards to your more recent renaissance of making big changes and having a much more open door for the community... This will hopefully be constructive criticism to help address the barrage of anger and push back regarding announcements you tend to get both for changes in the PTB and for live releases.
I've listened to numerous content creators, had discussions with many players of lots of different skill levels and experience over the 2 and half years I've played this game, and listening to and gone over the posts and streams many times with keen interest. One thing repeatedly sticks out in occasions where patch notes have gone well, and when patch notes have gone bad... It is simply a case of does the community feel heard and their opinion respected?
As 2 polar examples:
- Hillbilly in 4.1.0 getting his overheat mechanic for example is a case where the community doesn't feel heard... the issues there were his instasaw add-ons, but instead of addressing that, he got a new mechanic that didn't address the problem, and brought a load of new ones. This made no sense and the community didn't feel heard or respected at all...
- Hillbilly in 7.5.0 getting his overdrive mechanic, undid this and with his instasaw add-ons already changed, these changes went very well, as they addressed the very talking points the community had about Billy... in fact I don't think I remember a more glowing period of where the community felt more heard than this PTB.
Now the important distinction here is, just giving the community what they ask for is not the point... the point is, even if you don't give the community what they are asking for, they still need to feel heard...
I've heard I few times in streams the phrase "we hear you" or "its on our radar", but the problem is a lot of the time, we get a very high level, vague description of your thought process... and that thought process often is riddled with logical holes, and missing huge amounts of talking points with big repercussions elsewhere in the game.... More often than not, the devil in the details, and we as a community need to know that you've considered them...
Now I am known for being verbose on these forums... I'm sure there are several people who think "oh God here's UndeddJester with another reader's digest post", and I wouldn't blame them tbh, but... I have always held the belief that you need to take as much time as needed to say what you need to say, even if you have to be a bit pedantic and boring sometimes... However in a lot of your updates and discussions... explanations of your thought process rarely have more than a single sentence or a short paragraph.
What am I referring to? Well for example, in this PTB going by, we have a lot of talk about tunneling and slugging and camping and how they're not fun, and survivors are quitting in droves... However these things are complex, there are so many layers to these things that have effects through the entire game... this is why the "evil killer" thing didn't go down well... it's fine point the griefers out, but you need to acknowledge the mid ground, where even reasonable killers sometimes do these things... it is actually mahority of the time not a result of innocent Survivor persecuted by mean Killer, but often hand forced by going down under pallets, and other such aspects. The Game and everyone screaming "pallets" for example, kinda showed your hand you hadn't considered this...
And thisnis the issue... the biggest problem is when we have concerns and issues with things, we never hear the talking points we would raise and expect come back at us. Now no one expects you to reply to every possible talking point and every person... but we never get an idea of the big picture, what factors you've considered, and where your overall conclusion came from... and when you miss something like that, we never get a follow up to that effect…
I have no idea how you go realistically about gathering your feedback, but however you do it, when we don't hear the talking points we expect to hear, it makes us question if you've listened to us at all.
As some examples:
- The slugging changes: anyone with any experience will look at the slug changes and immediately an alarm goes off in your brain to say "what about Oni and Twins?". We hear nothing of these killers at any point. What about sabo squads, or teams repeatedly going down under pallets? These things are big enough to factor into your decisions, and yet we hear none of it... we don't know if you thought about it at all, and often the concluding changes seem to suggest no...
- The tunneling changes: you talk about not weaponising the anti tunnel changes, so you add no clip, but then have to revert cause survivors can clip in the killer and force hits, so remove it... but we never talk about this talking point again? Are you looking for another solution? Are you gonna compensate somehow?
- Skull Merchant or any rework on any killer: we get asked for feedback on their changes, but we never get any idea what your objective is, we never know what points you've considered in your rework. We get given a preview, we react to it, and then either none of what we said is mentioned or seems to feature into the rework whatsoever… a breakdown of the parts you want to retain of the killer and their identity, and the reasons changes don't fit into this idea would be great to hear... if we raise issues with something and things change, hearing that reasoning come back and what youre trying to achieve, or at teh very least a "it wpuld be nice, but we have this problem" response would go a lot way to making people feel heard and respected... heck we may even come up with a solution for you!
- Last minute changes on the PTB or rapid changes before anything settles: far too many times we give feedback on the PTB or issues in the game, and everyone thinks we've put in meaningful feedback... only for a whole heap of big sweeping changes that are completely untested get thrown in last second/suddenly to live. Some examples include Sadako, Krasue, the Fog Vials back to back double nerf, Dracula and Chucky constantly flip flopping buffs and nerfs. These things don't make sense, with many things feeling like they come way out of left field.
- No explanation why things aren't done: Even if you have to give the answer "we can't think of a good solution", that is a fine response, but you have to explain it… such as the Self Unhook to die issue, that was a hard issue to solve, and understandable why it took a long time to come up with the solution...However you never gave us the talking points we expected to hear, such as "we want self unhooks to be in the game, but we can't keep allowing people to continue subvering the DC penalty", "the DC penalty is necessary because the game doesnt function without 5 players, if you agree to play, you should honour that agreement", "we're reluctant to remove self unhooks, because it removes player agency", etc.
The overall point is, we as a community don't really know where a lot of your decisions come from, and what factors you've considered in making them. This allows people to form their own conclusions, that usually results in saying you don't know what you are talking about, or are "whatever" sided, or don't care about the community and just do whatever you want, etc.
While you don't owe us an explanation for every little detail, if we could understand/see the factors that went into your decisions, got mentions regarding our concerns (maybe even state you know something is an issue for <splot> killer or perk or survivor gripe, and ask for suggestions about that very issue), it'd make us feel much more heard...
Even if the changes don't go our way, it's a much easier pill to swallow, if we at least get to plead our case and feel it will actually be taken in.
Unfortunately opinions are like buttholes, everyone has got one, and some people are biased and only oit for themselves... so I dont know how you achieve that with the mountains of feedback you receive, but if you can manage this, help us understand the factors you're considering, I do believe believe on the whole tempers would not flair anywhere near as often or intensely.
We aren't your enemies, on the whole all of us here want to help, even if we do end up bickering like children sometimes.... but it's because we care, and want the game to do well.
Saying "we hear you" is not enough, we need to actually see it.
P.S. the Legion 2v8 situation is a great example of understanding your thought process would be appreciated... do you ever intend to bring them back? Are you looking for suggestions? Are they gone for good?
Cheers, and best regards
UndeddJester
i dont really take the critism seriously when the ptb has some good points or qol and yet people completely just shut it down because it nerfs killers or buffs survivors in any way.
dont believe me?, when sable was revealed, everyone was complaining and shitting their pants
that her perks would break the game, it did not
and this continued with every survivor release since 7, and til now, nothing really did even anything,
not even finesse or anything else that got freshly released.
(this is not counting perk buffs or reworks that didnt release in some time like babysitter)
"but what about shoulder the burden"
aww yes the perk that instantly died post ptb and killed any soloq potential it had due to its nerf.
not only did that idea get put into a perk with a heavy penalty.
it wasnt free and cost 9k shards or buy the perk for 5 bucks
(half if you wait for halloween or anni)
instead of being it basekit like it will be eventually ,
once bhvr gets tired of the consistent complains and eventually sends one through,
to eventually see that the game indeed will not die because of some minor qol that makes killers actually use more than just hold w and target one survivor.
the funny thing is, it doesnt even solve the problem for how strong it is, if the killer targets the weak link, they will die even if all your support, i tried with babysitter and burden, but i cant do anything if the tunneled survivor cant help themselves or the killer is too oppresive.
"just join a swf" isnt a real solution that effects majority of people that cant always play with friends or be bothered to queue with strangers who will shout some questionable bs.
even if those people get their wish, they would get more compy survivors, more losses and probably whine regardless.
no one complained that hook respawns "was handholding because killers cant be bothered to use their brains to position and target hooks properly"
it was a qol because hook placements were sometimes off and people abused the permament hook removal.
yet for survivors, even for a small minor thing like surrender or a pointless hud update,
people lose their minds and think "cant have that, it ruins the game".
i feel for the devs being confused what the problem is because most feedback, you cant take seriously. -
@MDRSan said:
This is for those content creators and forum posters that propose we encourage killers not to tunnel with strong buffs to killers if they choose not to tunnel coupled with nerfs to survivors already existing anti-tunnel perks and techs. Might I offer the same solution to some survivor behaviors killer mains seem to dislike.
Do you have a problem with how fast gens are being repaired? Well might I suggest we give survivors secondary objectives that actually progress the match or provide powerful, game changing buffs to them if they complete side tasks. We don't need to nerf toolboxes, toolbox add-ons, or gen perks - just buffing other things is enough, right? That's how that works? Just the carrot, not the stick? Of course, we'll need to further nerf gen regression since it would be too oppressive given survivors won't be gen rushing anymore. You understand, I'm sure.
Similarly, if you don't like survivors resetting or otherwise healing up then instead of nerfing healing might I suggest we buff survivors so they have a reason not to heal. Make all actions sufficiently faster while wounded that it's worth an entire health state as basekit. Give them wounded haste. Maybe basekit Dead Hard. That sound fair?
Personally I don't think gen speeds or healing are problems. Maybe in extreme, gimmicky edge cases that require unrealistic setup and luck to pull off but that's not something you're going to run into in your matches with any regularity if at all. I just think what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to argue you can buff killers into not tunneling then you must also argue you can buff survivors into not healing or focusing on gens.
mind you, only recently people started to actively use hyperfocus more than ever.
now you can ask and complain why or how its wrong.
but the point im saying is, no one used the strongest genrush and people consistently always say "gens fly too fast"
they basically got a small basekit version of corrupt with the spawn rules, months ago and people still keep saying its flying too fast.
my bias will just say that its a skill issue, something that alot of killer mains also use on survivors for all the problems survivors have or the reasons why people uninstall (ignoring it takes 1k hours or boring meta perks to beat).
i do play killer and without corrupt even with a good chase, it does feel like gens fly too much, why?.
i could point to toolboxes or even hyperfocus, have it be nerfed, but would that do anything?,
maybe its the built to last users or streetwise, because they got a buff or "buffed rework" (probably isnt).
when should a gen not be fastly done?,
they cant increase the gen time and lets be honest, gens are the most boring part of survivors actively doing something (besides being slugged on the floor and bleedout or held into a corner hostage)
even when i started playing the game and killers had insane pressure and gen-regression after the mft and buckle nerf, they keept saying gens fly too fast.
now sure, to answer your suggestion, doing a objective would help if there is an actual fun factor or reward for it, similar to blood-gens. i think it would work great if done well.
im hoping these only effect corner gens and take longer because, it would help the constant 3 gen cowards who only do corner gens, it would be a qol for survivor because, much less 3 gen to fight for 20mins, which they cant control and killers get free pressure.
it would be a win for both sides
survivors dont get 3-gen anymore (or atleast takes a much longer time to do) and killers get free pressure without any effort. -
@Willish said:
I enjoy playing him as a killer, but as a survivor I have to admit, I just skip Ghoul games.. For me personally, it's the free hits that are the problem.. Take that away, and I think I'd like him as both killer and survivor.
the worst part is you lose no matter what you do
you lose in time because you constantly try to be healthy like its a nurse and it doesnt work
or you stay injured but he gets an easy down because he can bodyblock,
faster than anyone else can with a shorter cooldown…because…reasons
even if you do have a insane game sense or just prerun because of paranoia, the ghoul still has some insane bite range, he can still bite over pallets or tiles when he really shouldnt be.
it honestly should be like nemesis where if you get bit, you are infected for 60 secounds and it auto-runs down, get a much smaller boost so its not essentially a free hit boost, so now the kaneki can be oppresive in chase but you get two health-states. -
@CSight said:
Just quickly for the record, I have no idea if anyone has thought of this/or anything similar, so I apologize if I'm unknowingly just copying someone else's idea. So, The Ghoul, I personally love him. He's cool, I like Tokyo Ghoul, and his terror radius slaps. But, it pains me how disliked he his, and I do get why he is disliked, which is why I came up with this idea for Ghoul to hopefully make him more fun to face. First, remove his bite and enraged mode, and make 3 leaps by default. I feel like 95% of Ghoul players don't play him for his free hit, they play for his fun movement, and/or because they like Kaneki and Tokyo Ghoul. I believe removing his free hit will get rid of his biggest pain point, and now they only way to damage survivors is by basic attacking by canceling your leap. If you aim your reticle at a survivor, your Kagune will just go through them and attach to the surface behind the survivor. Also, by removing his ability to bite survivors, it removes his "kidnap tech" as well. This will 100% make him weaker, but probably by not a lot, bottom of B tier at the very least in my opinion. Now, about his bite animation. It's really cool, and in character, so personally I think it could be one of his basic attack animations, along with the finger crack and mouth wipe. Personally, I would hate to see such a cool animation be only seen in the Mori, but its not the end of the world. So, thoughts? Please remember I'm just a player with a decent amount of time into this game and who likes Ghoul. I know nothing about game design or balance, so some people could think this is the stupidest idea in the world.
" I feel like 95% of Ghoul players don't play him for his free hit"
in his earlier release it contributed with his whole kit that just made him really easy to play.
after his first nerf (which it didnt even do anything by just nerfing the cooldown on pallet breaks).
people already didnt play or like him anymore (atleast according to the forum patch at that time)
i wouldnt say its the whole reason but its clear, if the killer is easy and really powerful, people play him.
i dont see how anyone can defend ghouls design of first free hit every chase with his mobility, besides it being "lore accurate".
legion and plague arent close to being strong and they can easily injure anyone in first chase too. -
@The_singularity said:
Rank
Killer Name
Pick Rate
1
The Shape (Michael Myers)5.87%
2
The Animatronic (Springtrap)5.35%
3
The Ghoul5.28%
4
The Huntress5.09%
5
The Blight4.64%
6
The Legion4.17%
7
The Nurse4.09%
8
The Artist3.99%
9
The Spirit3.86%
10
The Knight3.73%
11
The Good Guy (Chucky)3.65%
12
The Cannibal (Leatherface)3.59%
13
The Nemesis3.48%
14
The Doctor3.33%
15
The Oni3.25%
16
The Executioner (Pyramid Head)3.11%
17
The Mastermind (Albert Wesker)3.03%
18
The Nightmare (Freddy Krueger)2.87%
19
The Ghost Face2.84%
20
The Hillbilly2.76%
21
The Pig2.22%
22
The Wraith2.16%
23
The Dark Lord (Dracula)2.10%
24
The Unknown2.07%
25
The Trapper2.04%
26
The Singularity1.89%
27
The Trickster1.84%
28
The Lich1.84%
29
The Clown1.67%
30
The Dredge1.66%
31
The Onryō (Sadako)1.51%
32
The Plague1.48%
33
The Xenomorph (The Alien)1.47%
34
The Deathslinger1.45%
35
The Houndmaster (The Dog Killer)1.34%
36
The Krasue1.29%
37
The Demogorgon1.07%
38
The Skull Merchant1.07%
39
The Cenobite (Pinhead)0.81%
40
The Hag0.64%
41
The Twins0.54%
is this your personal pick rate or what exactly is this?,
compared to the devs actually explaining and saying when and where they got this data from, this is just thrown into a wall without any explination or source.
i can also just write wraith and blight being bottom and twins being high, just because. wouldnt mean anything. -
@scoser said:
It's because you could double hook all 4 survivors but they all escape and they'll still spam "GGEZ BABY KILLER" in post-game chat after teabagging at the gate. They'll almost never say "good game, that was close" in that same 8 hook scenario.
If thats really the problem, why not just close the chat?.
Do you really need to be validated by other people that it was a good match?.
-
@JiWONG said:
Why don't people enjoy playing him?
I've been playing him since the day he came out, and I think he's the only fun killer in DBD. No other killer has appealed to me as much as him, but why don't people like playing him? He has style and a good power (if you're skilled and know how to use it, and don't spam it randomly).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8N16EYISY0WG/1000090233.jpg
He feels like nurse 2.0 by just avoiding all loops or problems thrown at him by just throwing knives around, over or behind loops.
And if not that, it feels kind of cheap to just spam without much drawback, imagine huntress or springtrap without a cooldown and just spammed m2 every chance they get until you are down.
-
@ThatRyanB said:
Hey there forum folks!
It's autumn, which means chilly fall air, carved pumpkins, and the return of our Haunted By Daylight event! In addition to bringing back Smoke Bombs and Captured Haunts, we've added some new tricks (patrolling Void Haunts) and treats (new additions to the Void Well) to keep you on your toes.
Whether this is your first time stepping into the Void Realm or you're returning to haunt again, we've put together an infographic to walk you through everything you need to know about playing this year's event.
Check it out below for all the details ⤵️
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FZKUJK3DGWGS/dbd-halloween-gameplayinfographic-1-2-01-vf.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/67KYAKNH2OKJ/dbd-halloween-gameplayinfographic-1-2-02-vf.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V2OT3RD4VEZS/dbd-halloween-gameplayinfographic-1-2-03-vf.png
Because for some reason you guys love to handicap survivors more for going to the void, harder to do aswell.
If it was 2023 effects like refill item charges, endurance and speedboost, ok, fair, but its just a bad smoke bomb you guys made basekit and then completely nerfed to the ground BEFORE fixing kanekis kidnap exploit in 2 weeks compared to 4 months.
This also doesnt help that killers turbo tunnel while survivors are still really stupid when it comes to helping or doing the objective. (Or even doing anything productive)
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
Here is an example of a player feedback survey that's not rigged to be survivor sided. The reason why I'm posting this, is because the official exit surveys were rigged to be survivor sided, and therefore the survey results are invalid.
In this survey…
- Survivor issues AND killer issues are both clearly in the survey
- Players only get to select up to 3 reasons per category, so they need to actually decide which things are the worst, instead of just selecting everything that is specific to their favorite role.
- Unrelated survivor issues have been separated (the official survey combined tunneling and camping into the same choice).
Survivor issues (select 0 to 3 reasons):
Some killers or addons are too powerful
Excessive camping
Some killer perks are too powerful
My favorite survivor perks got nerfed too much
Excessive tunneling
Too many map deadzones
My solo q teammates are too weak
Excessive slugging
Solo q communication isn't good enoughKiller issues: (select 0 to 3 reasons):
Sometimes generator speeds are too fast
Excessive survivor hiding
Too many map pallets
Many killers feel too weak
Excessive hook denial (i.e. flashlight saves, pallet saves, hook sabotages)
My favorite killers got nerfed too much
My favorite killer perks got nerfed too much
Excessive bodyblocking
Playing against a SWF feels unfairGeneral issues: (select 0 to 3 reasons)
Too many bugs and cheats
Too many DCs and ragequitters
Lack of a ranked mode
Post game chat is too unfriendly
Matchmaking takes too long
Gameplay is too repetitive
Lack of transparency from the developers
It takes too long to unlock survivors, killers, and perks
Matchmaking time is too long"I dont like the result, its too survivor/killer sided"
Imagine the people saying this every time they do a survey. Actually unsufferable
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019042#Comment_4019042
Should we remove the ability for survivors to perform flashlight saves or pallet saves, because killers find it frustrating? Would the game be any better if we removed options and forced every game to play out the same way?
It really feels like some of you guys just want free escapes handed to you, because it's not enough to have tools to use. If those tools don't play the game for you then you find it pointless.
didnt killers already nerf and killed the stealth aspect of survivors by letting distortion rot and then getting aura perks buffed and added?.
you cant really bring up this point if they already did this and got away with it without a 2nd thought or chance to rework it.
same with sm. -
######### is this strawman comment section of killer mains,
im just glad anti-camp is added to the hud and hopefully an improved tutorial to explain it.
and im glad they wont just let killers tunnel for free when survivors have to use perks to counter them,
but then we do, use conviction, its unfair and op.
you really need to kick their ass and actually make it a challenge just as much as spreading hooks,
not just get a free win because a fresh install dwight and no one ran shoulder the burden.
since its basically useless in ptb, they dont have a reason to complain.
(but probably will since they cant bleedout slug against 3 survivors anymore out of spite). -
we havent had time to really adjust to him yet to really see if that is busted or not.
i also dont really see this as a problem since you got 20 pallets everywhere to throw or protect yourself from him.
people complained about the death of thombstone and how he didnt get compensated or something similar, well now he got stronger without it.
the only thing i hate is his stalk, while undetectable and getting punished for it,
but thats something you legitmately cant control,
besides adding haste to the survivor you stalked when chasing them so you dont just drop a tier-3 on a survivor you havent stalked all game when they did their job hiding away from you.
thats all i really want,
i shouldnt have to get thrown under the bus just because the sable is too oblivious to check her surroundings.
if she ######### up, punish her, not the others who know how to play the game against him. -
@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017429#Comment_4017429
So, essentially all he gets is faster setup and thats it? He's gonna need alot more than just throwing the traps to place them, its still a very useless power against decent players.
Tbh, that simple and easy to understand aspect of killers like Legion, Wraith and Legion should be dropped and instead the devs should make actual Tutorials on how to play as and against these killers.
Thats a discussion for another time, but the idea of simplifying killers to the point their powers suck is just not good, especially for the game's poster boy. Trapper needs to stand out more as a horror icon in the game industry, and making him stronger and a little less basic (like the dudes whole gimmick is placing beartraps, give him something) is the way to do it.
the devs said they wanted to keep the ogs simple.
this suggestion and complexity wont ever be added since its not something they will ever consider.
otherwise wraith, hag, doctor would've gotten a rework ages ago.
i also unfortunately think that he has to be in the bottom tier, not every killer will be b-s-tier thats not sustainable at all.
its honestly more realistic he gets addons basekit then this whole rework, its already bad enough how fillered this game is without any explination. trapper the "poster boy" shouldnt just scream "okay read a book to play him". this will draw people away. (unless you make him extremely opppresive) -
@Zuiphrode said:
Why do people keep making these "throw the trap" suggestions? Cut it out. Stop trying to make Trapper a projectile killer.
hes not throwing the trap onto the survivors, its a way to cut the set up, hes still at its core a trap killer.
sure he could use it in chase but, thats not what hes designed to do.
idk whats even wrong with the suggestion, all you said is "ew projectile killer = bad" with zero detail onto why, what kind of critism is that?, its like me saying ew trapper bad because trap killers bad. is that good critism?. -
even with swfs.
it doesnt even reach the 50% survival rate threeshold.
behavior wants killer to kill at 60%.
so there is a 20% gap.
if we ignore the stats, playing killer is much easier than to play on soloq, even on high mmr against swfs.
you got no control over so many things as soloq, even with 5k hours and you loop for 15mins,
if the three teammates dont do gens, you wont win.
and if they get chased but die every 10 secounds, the best genrush-loadout wont save you from that.
meanwhile as killers, you either get forced into no control or simply dont have the perks or experince to win. -
tunneling : focusing a guy after they got unhooked.
and no,
just because you hit someone else or chase someone else,
does not mean you cant just switch back to tunnel them for a 2nd hook while everyone has none.
(there are some situations that the killer is forced to hit other survivors for pressure or because of bodyblocks)
slugging : being left on the ground for around longer than 30 secounds,
when you have no danger to picking up
(I:E sabo, under a pallet, flashlight/flashbang save) -
i do like a way to essentially disconnect and move on from a miserable experince if the person either just cant bother to get a decent connection or more likely is just vpning to get free kills and hits.
-
@CompetitifDBD said:
Ahh yes, Trapper, posterboy of the game, and yet still the second worst killer in the game. Lets fix that. Here are my changes...
Power - Iron Demise (Yes, we are renaming Trapper's power to not be "Bear Trap")
The Trapper starts the trial with 10 Beartraps, all already in his possession
Special Ability - Trap Throw and Placement
Press the Power Button to ready a Trap placement.
- Trapper raises the Trap and a Chain in his left hand.
- The landing location of the Trap is revealed to you.
- You can Cancel the Placement Stance by letting go of the Power Button.
- Press the Attack Button to Toss the Armed Bear Trap onto the ground, It activates Instantly on the spot.
- Upon a Trap's placement, for 30 seconds, the Trap cannot be disarmed.
- 10 Traps can be actively in the environment at a time.
- All trap auras are revealed to The Trapper in a White Aura
New Survivor Status Effect - Trapped
- Survivors caught in Environmental Traps will take damage if Uninjured, and Recieve Deep Wounds if already Injured.
- The time it takes to escape a Trap is based on how far The Trapper is from the Survivor when they're Trapped. Minamum Escape Time is 2 Seconds If The Trapper is within 24 Meters of Survivor when they're Trapped, while the Max is 6 Seconds if The Trapper is at least 48 Meters away when the Survivor is Trapped
- Range for Trap Escape Time Multiplier is 1 extra Second per 6 Meters the Killer is away from the survivor, plus the minamum time of 2 seconds
Special Ability - Trap Retrieval
- By pressing the Power Button and pressing the Secondary Power Button, The Trapper will Drag the Trap through the Air and back into their possession
- Traps that can be Retrieved are revealed in a yellow aura, within a 12 meter radius of It
- Traps Ignore Line Of Sight when being Retrieved
- Having no Bear Traps left will require you to retrieve a Trap with your Chain
- Retrieving Traps travel at a speed of 6 meters per second, and pull straight towards The Trapper's current position.
Special Survivor Status Effect - Clamped
If a Survivor is in the flight path of a Trap when it is thrown or Retrieved, the following occurs:
- The Bear Trap is clamped into the survivor
- If they're Uninjured, they become injured. If already injured, deep wounds are applied.
- The survivor becomes Chained by The Trapper, which allows him to occasionally tug the Chain by pressing the Secondary Power Button, straight towards himself in a single, few meter long burst. This ability has a 5 second Cooldown
- If the Trapper Retrieves a Trap and it collides with a Clamped Survivor, that Survivor is put into the dying state, and the Clamped Trap is returned to your possession along with the Retrieved Trap.
- Retrieving and Hitting a survivor with a disarmed Trap does not damage them, and only returns it to your possesion.
Special Survivor Interaction - Trap Disarm, Escape and Dismember
Survivors can Disarm an Environmental Bear Trap by doing a 4 Second Interaction within 2 meters of the Trap.
- The Trap is Disarmed until Retrieved and Replaced.
Clamped Survivors are affected by The Chain, which ignores loss of Line of Sight. It can only stop affecting Survivors by removing the Clamped Bear Trap through a still standing, 3 Second action, or if The Trapper Is more than 12 meters away from you, which will cause the Chain to break, making the survivor Scream, revealing their location and becoming hindered by 10% for 5 seconds.
If a Survivor is caught in an Environmental Bear Trap, you can free them faster in a one second Interaction beside them.
Okay, thats my concept. Now onto my Notes:
- The main motive of changing Traps to a Throwing Placement was to make setting up your Traps at the start of a match easier and less time consuming, plus it ties into how you utilize your new chase power.
- Retrieving Traps and Chain Tugging are his new Chase abilities, letting him perform an attack similar to Snug's pull and also give him a way of attacking a survivor when they're sandwiched between a Trap and The Trapler. if they don't pay attention to their surroundings, they're as good as dead.
- Several Add Ons were made basekit ontop of the various unique mechanics I thought of, like Trapper Sack and Lengthened Jaws. I still plan on making a follow up Discussion on Add On Changes, since a bunch had to do with manually placing traps, which is no more.
And thats it for me, hope you enjoy the ridiculously long post. Give me thoughts as usual, (mainly looking for what level of strength you think he is now) tell me what could be improved.
you really dont need all of this.
i have an idea to essentially give him all the traps and be able to just instantly prop up a trap by throwing them with a visible icon where you can throw em onto the ground. (obviously down, not up)
which is way easier to do. then…all of this.
theres two problems. it would overshadow other trap classes like freddy or hag
and they refuse to change the og killers to keep them simple or due to stats, even if their design is completely horrid, -
@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016887#Comment_4016887
I am subscribed for years.
But i don´t received the mail.
then contact the support, i have been given codes every time i havent gotten a mail (since they know my mail is subbed to them with my bhvr account)
-
@Kamisa said:
For the past week 9/10 matches I would have a killer either proxy camp or hard tunnel a survivor out, despite having 4/5 gens left. And it's not like they are against bullying squad or super well-played team.
anti-camp and anti-tunnel perks does not help much.
And Iridescent Button Legion abuse. I'm getting tired of it.
Is it just me?instead of helping survivors, they…enabled it more for some reason.
dont ask me why people queue into survivor when its the same 3 boring cycle. -
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/U2JJ3QZ5QXJ3/image.png
4-man SWF escape rate across all MMRs is actually lower than solo queue LOL. The only outlier here is high MMR 4-man SWF and that makes sense. Coordinated, experienced teams are very difficult to deal with and get more than 1-2 kills, especially if you’re not playing with S-tier killers.
I draw two conclusions from this: 1) solo queue is not nearly as bad as some people here make it out to be. I can speak from experience on this as well as my lifetime escape rate is 43%, and probably higher more recently as I was much worse in my early days than I am now. 2) 4-man SWF really only “breaks the game” at the high MMR range. This makes sense as coordination alone really doesn’t help teams win consistently. It’s coordination plus the ability of every survivor on the team to take killers in extended chases.
"solo queue is not nearly as bad as some people here make it out to be."
its like universal that soloq is completely horriable for so many reasons,
lack of communication.
lack of control.
forced to use perks just to make soloq bearable (kindred, windows).
your teammates trolling or dying every 5 secounds.
your teammates, teaming and getting you killed.
your teammates leaving you to rot because you arent in their duo/trio.
the slugging and tunneling that you have no control over unless you wanna use meta anti-perks like convict and ds.
in what world is this fine?. this is like me saying "oh trapper aint as bad as people say, his killrate is close to 56% so that must mean something" ????? -
is it that hard to just subscribe to the newletter, let it be in your spam
and then be afk watching a random dbd streamer for 6 hours or so?.
besides, cosmetics are optional. i dont have all the badges (even if i really wanted to) because the rest are behind bs expensive paywalls. -
@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015314#Comment_4015314
BHVR has already implemented a feature where getting slugged too much in a match lets survivors ragequit, so we've obviously gone past the point of "erm! abandoning is only for when you cant do anything!!! you can still do stuff in EGC as the killer just try harder!!!" and is basically just "okay this match might be making you mad so here your BHVR-sanctioned gonext"
would rather they fix the slugging for 4k or 1v2. but sure.
-
@Venusa said:
I honestly feel let down by the latest Rift. Some of the outfits are nice, but overall there just isn’t much going on. There are no recolors, and the few recolors we did get especially for Yun-Jin are extremely disappointing. I’m not even going to get into the broken physics on her skirt…
You really expect us to grind through 100 Rift tiers just to unlock… a recolored bow? That’s it? You didn’t even recolor the hair, it’s just the bow. It’s embarrassing. It would take literally ten minutes to recolor it properly in Blender.
I know the team already acknowledged that this Rift feels “low effort,” but people are paying real money for this content. You can and should do better. Please fix this and give players something that actually feels worth the time and money.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NJQ9AYU89Z1H/g2saqbpxqaauo3g.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OW459LCCKJOU/g2saqbyxwaajxfd.jpg
it wouldnt be so bad if they truely tried to make the game better, which.
there is yet to really be a dent put in the games health other than a surrender option that flawed and concepts of ideas that bhvr are too scared to pull the trigger on
(no haste stacking, anti changes) -
@PleaseRewind said:
I really don't understand why I got downvoted. It was a serious question. When I played with high ping it was miserable on both roles for me. So I wanted to understand more. I wasn't stating an opinion. I was simply sharing an experience I had.
Please I'm all ears, those who downvoted what is wrong for being curious?
the only way that lag is good for survivors, is to avoid insta-downs or grabs.
thats about it. which..compared to the many killers benefitting. it makes no sense why you got downvoted. -
@TWiXT said:
I will never stop using my VPN!
Not after an unhinged and butthurt survivor THREATENED me in the Endgame Chat By doxxing my State, City, and IRL first name… NONE of which are publicly mentioned in my private steam profile, and I don't have any Social media platforms they could've gotten it from either. The only way they could've gained any of that info was through tracing my IP address, and retrieving ISP customer information.
Who The actual ######### makes IRL Death Threats, and doxxes someone as part of the threat, over a freaking lost match in a Goddamn video game?
After that, I VPN'ed up, I only connect to VPN servers in my region, but not my state or city, Get around 60-100 Ping on average, and I haven't ever played another match of DbD without it!
No malicious intent on my part, simply protecting myself and my family! You don't like it? DC if you ever go against me, I don't care, because You will NEVER convince me to take it down after an experience like that.
you do realise this wasnt from the game right?.
even with a vpn, they probably tracked it from your account and connections.
again, there is ZERO way you should have yourself be exposed unless you did it yourself.
and if all he did was threaten but send no proof…then its a nothing burger.
i had several people in many games that they will find me and kill me, did this happen?, no.
not to say you shouldnt take it seriously. but just letting you know, vpn isnt gonna do ######### in that part.
and no, if he did just send you ip-adress, it doesnt mean #########. you can reset it and get a new one. -
killers are somehow complaining, even though this is like another event for them.
i know pallet density is ######### them over, but we are getting screwed by their consistent tunneling, slugging, s-tier overbuff killer releases and events that give survivors barely anything.
last survivor sided event was fun until kaneki ruined it til krause came out to fix his god damn kidnap exploit.
and before that it was 2 years ago exactly where survivor had a reason to go in and didnt get a massive penalty for trying to play the event.
for the love of god. if you have to do the event, DONT PUNISH PEOPLE FOR GOING INTO THE VOID SO GOD DAMN MUCH.