Philscooper
Philscooper
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@jedimaster505 said:
BHVR tried to fix the issue with the anti-tunneling/slugging/camping update. Unfortunately the devs had no backbone and almost entirely scrapped the update not because the update was bad, but because killer mains are unwilling to adapt and content creators used propaganda to convince the hive mind that the update was bad.
The update wasnt perfect but it was true that the devs had no backbone because killers refused to learn and adapt more than just "slug/tunnel".
They easily could've keept the anti-slug and anti-camp feature, but once again refused because of very situational scenarios that bhvr for some reason cant just work around to any problem that killers threw out to refuse to go through with it.
nerf sabos and learn to dodge and pick up in wierd angles, fake pick ups, you can still slug if you need to, you dont need to excessively slug for no reason. Flashlight saves have never been fairer since the flashbang nerf and BGP nerf.
As if the 60% killrate wouldnt have been adjusted with more killer buffs or perk buffs down the line, if it really was "this bad".
The 50h killer vs 1k hour survivor experince makes no sense and why no one bothers to play survivor if there arent any interesting modes or perks to compensate, the queue times are proof of that. It would never be this long for killer if it was "fair and balanced" for both sides.
But no outrage for kaneki. Pathetic.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/462216/killers-win-if-they-kill-1-survivor-early
Get very good at looping and waste the killer's time enough for your teammates to finish gens, or stick to gens if someone else is being chased and hope they do the same instead of just giving up instantly due to your own mindset.
Worst case? Get chased on purpose anyway, then practice chase vs that killer. Or blame the person who got tunneled out so fast that your team couldn't get enough gen progress to be in a contestable state when they die. Or blame your teammates for not engaging in said gen progress.
You can do things to improve your chances, if you try. Its more effective than beating a horse to death without any real solution. Your teammates who don't give up immediately will thank you. Its more effective than yet another woe is me post about tunneling.
But then when i avoid this issue by joining a swf and run more anti-perks.
Killers will say its unfair or its cheating. Even though there is nothing i can do in soloq even if i run babysitter and shoulder the burden.
Instead of expecting the side with less replayability and less survivals/win to require less hours by forcing killers to not just target the fresh install and by proxy make killer players actually learn how to loop against perks/tiles, learn how to zone, use powers more effectively while also lowering survivors required experince just to play the game.
You make everyone a swfing sweatlord because you give soloq no other viable option. Great idea.
Not like we are already doing it and backfiring by just playing in swfs only, even if the people you play are questionable.
I mean, im sure killers appricate having a taste of their own medicine because playing in a swf gives them close to zero chance of winning no matter what they do unless they play the full meta aswell.
Which is, indeed a horrid design to enforce and bystand.
I wouldnt have any problem "getting good" if killers got the same treatment, but they dont, you dont need 1k+ hours to get good at killer and i doubt they ever will increase that threeshold or change it.
And, before anyone says "play killer" i have. Close to 800 hours.
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@Amanova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041716#Comment_4041716
Sorry to hear that, but thanks for the comment, there's some truth in it too. I love Aces by the way😍
Thanks, hope dance with me gets buffed.
Nice perks.
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@jesterkind said:
The Key item rework, the gamma slider, the customisable scratch marks colours, auto bloodweb spending, hook suicide prevention, survivor bloodpoint gain increase, and you could count the Freddy rework if you like that one, dealer's choice there.
Less gameplay related, but the original survivors this year were awesome. Vee and Orela are both really cool, both as characters and as representation, so there's that.
You could also count some perks, new and buffed, and killer releases if you like them, which is personal taste. Personally I think Springtrap's pretty cool but the last killer that really excited me was Houndmaster at the tail end of 2024, so they're not on my list.
I get what you're going for here, but it is important to give credit where it's due as well. We don't gain anything from pretending nothing good happened last year, and we gain a lot more from acknowledging what the specific disappointments were.
the key rework honestly caused more harm than good :
to this day, you have no reason to ever use it outside of an hatch challenge.
the biggest evidence is how they nerfed the bloodstone addon, the only good thing about the key, giving you wallhacks for a long duration, even if that got overshadowed with much better perks and combos (scene partner, alert, eyes of belmoth)
to be an object of obession addon. which makes no sense to do because it wasnt problematic to literally anything else
replacing it with the OoO effect made no sense since stat wise, fun wise and popularity wise. no one liked object.
the iri addon is just a mini-wiretap. compared to most addons in the game, this is laughable.
killers get entire perks with full effect with very small changes on it and then you got a 6 meter range wiretap that barely lasts long.
this is just what the old bloodstone is supposed to be, but much worse.
i tried using it in chase or while stealthing and i had no reason to ever do it when i can just play optimally or other fun builds.
the hook go next prevention honestly added more fuel to the fire :
since there is no dc penalty and dying on hook fast is punished, you will just run into the killer, go afk or give zero effort in playing (i:e do gens but dont move when killer comes)
this was just a bandaid solution instead of just addressing the issues of playing survivor, which the devs never go through with it, which i doubt will ever be fixed since the trust being broken is close to being irrevesable without another overtuned meta like MFT or buckle.
vee and orela were cool and all, but the perks were, mid to useless.
orela do no harm is just a better we'll make it/botany knowledge.
Vee she got ghostnote which almost got gutted due to people complaining about no scratch marks, only to realise that its not distortion and that it doesnt matter.
1-2-3-4, has some issues, but honestly caused me more harm and time wasted in a match unless i bring an entire loadout for it, which, i can just bring botany for it.
i miss when we got alot more useful experimental perks that they bothered buffing like wicked or nicolas cage.
its why you dont see alot of vee or orela fans.
if we point out killer releases, it doesnt really do anything when kaneki is yet to be properly adressed for 8 months
his release alone made several people stop playing survivor or the game, entirely. -
the anti-camp being visible on the hud.
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@Tenac said:
Just a thought on the situation but I would consider extremely powerful killers and a return to stealth gameplay overall a good thing. I think that something that has been lost to DBD for sometime is the fact that it is a horror game it's core. As a survivor you are meant to feel overwhelmed and afraid. I'm always disappointed when a match doesn't make me feel this way. After a while people got used to killers and stopped trying to avoid them. Some people go out of their way to engage with the killer and try to bully them hence bully squads. Making the game more intense and focusing on creepy killers ie unknown and karasu is helping bring the game back to its horror roots. At least that is how I feel.
at the very least give survivors also a broken overpowered toy that everyone can abuse.
but all we got was conviction, and that also got nerfed more than kaneki ever did.
now its still a situational perk you need to combo to get value out of with plottwist, which at this point unbreakable is just better.
since i wont have anyone willing to heal, since everyone is being a resilence user nowadays. -
@Amanova said:
It's insane how Krasue hits me from miles away just because she had 120ms same with Spirit like hello this is clearly not fair!
the best you can do it just play normally without zero effort.
i mean, even if you did play with all your effort you would get hit anyway, so i dont bother and just move on.
killers get their free kill, survivors get to move on. sad but true. -
@Rigbeta said:
Seriously, has the Dev Team every said anything on the matter of that squirming Twink? The Ghoul gets the following:
- A free initial injury Applied by Hit-Scan.
- Deep Wounds on free first Injury.
- A Super Mode that can be indefinitely extended (on multiple survivors at once) that is based on a status Ailment on Survivors that Doesn't get removed on Hook for some godawful reason.
- Insane Map Traversal.
- Hindered Applied to Survivors On A Grab.
- Can STILL kidnap Tech.
- Can bodyblock using his power.
- Can vault pallets and Windows with the speed increased in Enraged mode.
- Has free perks like Bamboozle with an Addon (This one is just especially irritating because it just gives him a free perk slot to slap SH: Pain Resonance on) or BBQ (The mask Addon).
- Next to No Cool-down for cancelling power.
- Very Short Cool-Downs in General for EVERYTHING.
AND THEY NEVER SHUT UP THE WHOLE TIME WITH THEIR ANIME SQUEALING
It's so Obnoxious dealing with this poorly designed power-trip character and knowing that 90% of the time, you're gonna die but you have to put 100% effort to try and go against someone who gets insane results without even having to try. And then of course we get the sweaty Ghouls that actually do tryahard on top of getting easy mode, so then you're just ######### over and over and over again with their attack-dog build or their all slowdown orgy. It's so mindlessly annoying and frustrating, especially in solo que where there's just n o h o p e.
Do the Devs care. I remember a time when it felt like they did.
Nowadays we're trapped in a proverbial hell where Every other release is a Dash/Speed Killer and the only thing that matters is selling out to make as much money as possible at the cost of quality of life improvements.
I took a massive break from DBD because it just got so incredibly unfun between my main getting nerfed to oblivion (then nailed back together only recently), and Ghoul Players that spend the entire match screamjaculating load after load of BS into my poor Survivor till their scarred and prolapsed body is sent up to hell.
I come back to DBD for the Winter Event, and Survivor is still terrible feeling, The Ghoul still is allowed to be this hopping ###### of a character, and yet somehow Skull Merchant is allowed to have all these demerits against her (A whole other rant to be had).money and people defend it.
if there was backlash like there was with streetwise, kaneki would 100% not be the way he is.
because there was no blacklash, means that people dont care or think hes fine for basically being a easier nurse/blight. -
@Royval said:
haven’t played rpd in weeks this time instead of Badham being spammed its swamp and shelter woods two of the dullest maps in the entire game
i just keep getting haddonfield, i legit dont get this map, it makes me wanna dc if i keep getting it over and over and over in a single day.
every time i play i just groan and expect to lose and whenever we do win, the killer threw massively to the point of basically giving us a win. -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041267#Comment_4041267
There is close to nothing for me as a survivor main i can do that would change their minds. (Because in my experince, it never does anything anyway, so i dont bother to waste my energy and sanity)And why would you ever expect anyone who disagrees with you to not have that same mindset? You have to give if you want to receive and especially if you want to do more than just shout at each other.
For example, killers love to defenf kaneki like hes the 2nd comming of jesus, even though he had and still has alot of balancing issue and stat issues that just makes the others look like a direct downgrade.And "Killers" aren't a hive mind. You can focus on people who you can't find ground with, but its a fool's errand to allow that to paint an entire role with the same brush. There have been survivor mains defending obviously broken things throughout most of the game's history as well. Its not a role specific thing to disagree with whether X or Y is broken or balanced.
He would defend it and think its needed for a "casual game" to have a easy killer to go on winstreaks with, while survivors should have the opposite...for some reason. Because for some reasob swfs are hardcore dominating the killer, when thats not even true.He also talked multiple times about how he dislikes "fence sitters," yet seemed to find one of my mediation posts pretty agreeable. If as hard headed as you project, I should have been called all kinds of degrees of spineless. Again, I don't agree with many of the things he says about the game, and thats ok. I don't consider anything I've seen worth silencing, and certainly not worth dismissing good points. And I especially don't feel the need to engage with someone who dislikes him summarizing his arguments, potentially excluding all context and/or nuance.
If people need a break or quit if they dont enjoy something, why would u argue with someone who is clearly baiting for engagement and most likely just doing it for reasons that just benefits him?.There's a very big difference between having a focused audience and ragebaiting. Believe it or not, all throughout history people have been able to discuss things with people who actively hate them, fought wars that lasted years, committed countless atrocities and yet they still eventually find ways to return to diplomacy. I don't think someone disagreeing with you about balance perspective in a video game is quite that deep. As for ragebaiting, I feel its a term that gets so overused it apparently means "someone who won't agree with me" now.
Atleast for me, i can argue for soloq. But that doesnt matter since the echo-chamber is nerfing soloq anyway, so i dont even bother.What echo chamber? I don't think thats how that buzzword works, as an echo chamber would be a platform(s) that specifically constantly validate one another while ostracizing dissent from the common "good." Jumping at "wrongthink" shadows and whatnot. Those people do not even have access to the code of the game, so they can't be the one to nerf things. If anything, ignoring and silencing people over disagreements is how you get echo chambers. They're anathema to actual discourse. Not even going to touch how you feel about "nerfing soloq" when the role has gotten multiple buffs irrespective of how they affect SWFs. I'll just continue to enjoy all the stuff we've gotten (especially the HUD update people constantly downplay) and take each change as they come, then assess them from there.
The only thing i can do is make fun of themThats the hallmark of not having a solid counterpoint.
If they dont believe it, not my problem, not my job.Thats not the point. You can't force people to submit to your reasoning any more than you can your will. Its about presenting your points honestly and respectfully, expecting the same from the people who disagree with you, and then shifting your reaction based on theirs. Note how I'm still trying to explain these things to you despite how stubborn you're being about arguing over discussion.
Ill just ask you this.
Do you think, this does anything?, did any of us change our minds or opinions?.
(I can already answer the last one, which is a no).
I could argue back and explain all what i meant, but honestly, it wont change anything, nothing ever does.
I have seen it personally after trying to make bhvr and the community rally behind an idea or against an idea with alot of upvotes. Everywhere, Yet never comes to results.
Sure, i could try again and aim for more support, but honestly if thats what it takes for bhvr to do anything, it would explain alot why its where its at.
Because there never will be a point where i have literally everyone rally up on an idea or against it.
For example the fog-vials nerfs. Not reverted, easy case, still isnt.
Or survivor classes for 2v8, boon class shouldnt be too hard to carry over. But again, nothing. (Mind you those were 6-8 months ago).
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041271#Comment_4041271
You cant ignore the dev's words.Did we ever get that third definition of tunneling?
Their aimed killrate is 60% no matter what, unless the devs change their minds, which i doubt they will do.Yes, thats how averages work. Because the game is designed to be more intuitive for killer at lower skill levels, 4Ks are resultant to more interaction than 0Ks, and the 1 has to work harder than any of the individual 4, it makes sense for a target thats not 50% exactly. If killers are winning most of the matches at lower levels, it would need to be more heavily favored toward survivor at higher levels to get a 50% target, so a more balanced state would end up carrying over that statistic anomaly that newer players generate. Likewise, higher kill counts in a match generally equates to more back and forth between the killer and survivor, especially when comparing the extremes. Additionally, survivors get downtime while working on gens, as well as having an elimination focus which the killer does not. Their position is considerably more transient on the match around them vs the actual load bearing role. You don't have to agree with where they landed, but the reasoning isn't necessarily as dubious as you seem to assume.
All of these things focus on global averages. They factor in everything from people who have been playing since the beta to the ones who just freshly installed the game. Like I keep saying, this is why these stats say nothing about individual interactions between players, just the overal results of all matches recorded into said data. If there is no curation, it says much less than people like to load into the next chamber. Even once you start curating it with vague groupings like "high MMR," it still says absolutely nothing about the expected outcome of any given match beyond simple trends. Other genres have matchups as bad as 80%/20% (possibly even 90/10, though I don't know any personally,) so a shift that minor is nowhere near as catastrophic as people like to claim. It just means that the data should be curated more tightly if anyone wants it to carry strong statistical relevance toward something like individual outcome expectations.
So, no, the game will stay killer sided even if they ######### up and make it survivor sided and refuse to change it for some reason.That statement makes absolutely no sense and directly contradicts itself.
You got evidence to support against it besides "swfs"?Random request for evidence of a claim I never made. I don't think I even used the term SWF in that entire post. I just pointed out how insincere you're being with how you are presenting your statistics. I even tried to do the same regarding the person you were disagreeing with.
Even if we give the stats the way you exactly want, you would probably deny it one way or another.
They already described what tunneling is, targeting the survivor off hook. Because thats all you need. Its their game afterall.
If im using a toolbox for completing gens, im genrushing. There doesnt need more explination for that.
60% is still 60%. Killers will win more than they lose.
If that doesnt happen, the devs should be balancing against it, like they did this year.
They ######### up or do wierd changes, maybe the stats saw how survivors were only winning 20% and they drop MFT or buckle up, i dont know.
We will probably never know. But they will never have it be survivor sided by its core design, which is what almost every stat from bhvr released will say. 60%.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041113#Comment_4041113
While I mostly agree, there are restrictions on killers as well, are there not? Not as many IIRC, but that would make sense due to the 1v4 nature and a lack of cross player synergies or necessity to offset shared agency. Feels more like a focus on individual aspects rather than overall roles, which could then mean that there are more broken things on survivor than killer, but I don't know if it's quite that simple. That said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040801#Comment_4040801
I just don't agree with using statistics as some type of "silver bullet" in these types of discussions when they are incomplete data. Things like
You are winning 60% of the time even against swf from mid to high mmr GLOBALLY.mix personal and overall scale in the same statement.
Youin this case would either have to apply toall players who are ever playing the killer role, specifically for those matchesif wanting to stack it withglobalstats, as it would be a different pool from the individual whos data you do not have. After all, the infamous killstreaks from killers like blight far exceed 60%, meaning that they have zero influence on another killer player's statistics nor adhere to the limitations of the aforementioned 60% average. Simply put, its a loaded statement meant to invalidate someone's experiences, which is more arguing than discussing.Overall, I don't agree with statements regarding comparing roles to have any permanence in regards to "The Heirarchy" due to how much concepts like skill, tactics, game sense, etc influence outcomes. We have more agency than that in any role, even if that agency is sometimes limited at times. People can certainly have their opinions on which are easier or harder than others, or even which the game's current state favors at any given moment. It sways a lot more than people seem to realize, with even the pallet density issues causing overall balance to swing back and forth as they kept screwing it up. But the most important thing is to not catastrophize extremes as absolutes, only considerations when focusing on such topics or their influence on the rest of the game.
Even if we keep ignoring the stats for whatever reason.
You cant ignore the dev's words.
Their aimed killrate is 60% no matter what, unless the devs change their minds, which i doubt they will do.
So, no, the game will stay killer sided even if they ######### up and make it survivor sided and refuse to change it for some reason.
You got evidence to support against it besides "swfs"?
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040986#Comment_4040986
You said healing build in an swf, if solo que doesnt want to be healed, it gets obviously harder.
But in general:
Gens: less time healing, more time for gens.
Slugging: Picking up is a healing action, thats where your build should shine.
Tunneling: Helps to bodyblock and heal fast afterwards
Chase: Again bodyblocks or just reset after the hook
It doesnt work if you are in chase or even incapacitated (hook/slug). Gen builds also dont work, only chase. But chase builds are useless if you dont get hunted. You need to play for your build, but sometimes you will still be found first with your healing build, it happens.
Good luck finding a swf that's, THIS good at cordinating.
Unless you play on a comp swf, which you wouldnt run this thing anyway.
I see ur point, but running this build, isnt perfect which it shouldnt be.
If i get slugged or tunneled, i cant heal myself mid-chase.
If i wanted to bodyblock, i should use a bodyblock build. Not a healing build.
If i get an anti-heal killer or build, my build is useless.
Which is why people stick to the meta. Otherwise your quality of experince will be in the trash and honestly, no one should have to experince that just because you didnt want to run the meta, but thats probably irrelevant.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4041003#Comment_4041003
I wouldn't say ragebaiting, but he self admits to having a killer bias. Its the role he enjoys, and his time with survivor is pretty decent, so he clearly has a killer's perspective on different issues while having a more simplified understanding of his opponents' perspective. I don't agree with a good number of his points from the video's I've seen, but he gives them from the perspectives of his wins, losses, and frustrations. If someone doesn't play as much survivor, they would likely not run into as wide a range of experiences in that role. Same with Survivor mains who occasionally play killer and never run into most of what killer mains complain about.
And all of that is ok.
The point is to take the experiences you don't have that someone in that position does, then try to learn from them in your own position. You can disagree with someone on 99% of their points, but if that 1% is true and outside your own purview, its worth hearing them out. When I mentioned watching passionate content creators who have personal biases, thats what I was talking about: I certainly haven't played killer, let alone a low tier M1, anywhere near as much as someone like that. While I feel that level of exposure probably skewed some perspectives due to human nature, it would be a waste to not try to understand anything they have experienced that I simply don't have the sample set to experience.
Something that creator in particular pointed out in one of the videos I watched was in regards to content focus between roles: Killer mains tend to talk about strategy, tactics, and focuses much more often than survivor main content creators do, and I kinda agree with him from what I've seen. I used to see more survivor content creators take that route, but a lot of the content tends to center around trying to assert dominance on the killer, or lamenting the shared agency of the role, while the rest is just normal trying to entertain the audience. Obviously there are many content creators on both sides that defy this type of assumption (and if anyone has any good examples to follow that focus more on improvement and insight, please feel free to mention them. Positivity vibes for either side only please,) but it resonates with my experiences and what I look for from DBD content. And to note, I've seen some content creators switch mains entirely based on how they feel about the state of the game, sometimes out of spite and sometimes out of simple dissatisfaction in the state of their preferred role.
Don't need or want to go into more specific examples, but the point is that there is a lot of content for anyone who plays DBD to improve in their understanding and execution in the game. It can often come from people you fundamentally disagree with on a myriad of issues. The most important thing is to understand what insights you can glean from their stances, as they help you understand what that person is feeling while they play. Its ok to dismiss things as "entitled" or "oblivious" in the community, but only really after giving them a fair and honest shake at consideration. I feel like I bring up Sun Tzu a lot on these forums, but understanding your opponent works both in and out of combat. You'd be surprised the things that are easy to overlook when ignoring warning signs from unlikely people.
Even if we give them what they want, they will still complain and never be happy.This is true of a very large portion of the community, and is absolutely not role centric. In fact, some people believe that entitlement runs much more rampant on the survivor side, due to how multiple aspects of the game work. Personally I think its a user problem more than a role problem, being a scrub has no allegiances in itself.
TLDR: Its ok to disagree with someone on almost everything, so long as you give them reasonable discourse with the things you can agree with them on. If you dismiss them entirely off the bat, you never get that chance.
There is close to nothing for me as a survivor main i can do that would change their minds. (Because in my experince, it never does anything anyway, so i dont bother to waste my energy and sanity)
For example, killers love to defenf kaneki like hes the 2nd comming of jesus, even though he had and still has alot of balancing issue and stat issues that just makes the others look like a direct downgrade.
He would defend it and think its needed for a "casual game" to have a easy killer to go on winstreaks with, while survivors should have the opposite...for some reason. Because for some reasob swfs are hardcore dominating the killer, when thats not even true.
If people need a break or quit if they dont enjoy something, why would u argue with someone who is clearly baiting for engagement and most likely just doing it for reasons that just benefits him?.
Atleast for me, i can argue for soloq. But that doesnt matter since the echo-chamber is nerfing soloq anyway, so i dont even bother.
The only thing i can do is make fun of them and tell killers via copy n paste why kaneki for example, is full of #########, then mute them to keep my sanity.
If they dont believe it, not my problem, not my job.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040801#Comment_4040801
Comp play kinda proves it. There are massive restrictions on the survivors and usually (outside of nurse/blight) the killers are heavily favored by playing on their best map, or allowing certain perk combinations that make those killers much stronger.
Until we get people consistently playing like dbd is comp, which the dev said it isnt and the community itself doesnt take it seriously, unless you maybe vpn to asia.
Using comp isnt really what happens when someone boots up the game, it can happen, but the most you ever get is a cordinated team who is trolling or playing casual.
but even if it did happen consistently, the devs would make sure that it wont be survivor sided, since their killrate goal is 60%.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040794#Comment_4040794
To be fair I know of several SWF's that have gotten way past 20 wins in a row…So guaranteed? No, that is false.
And i know killers who have gone to 1900 wins in a row with 4k's if you really wanna take the "high hour mains" into consideration.
But if you play with a squad of randos or people who have low hour counts, they wont escape 20 times because of either getting an s-tier sweat or inexperince.
And barely anyone plays in highly experinced group, compared to killer, i can get a 20 winstreak easily even as a survivor main. Because im on my own and i barely have to learn much.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
As the title suggests, how would the game balance have turned out if perks scaled based on team size for survivor, or relative strength as a killer?
So let's say that you take a perk like Sprint Burst, and subtract 5% Haste for each survivor in your party (if the party size is 3 or more) and a 10% increase if you play solo, or make Pain Res only regress a gen by 15% for a killer like Blight or Ghoul, and 30% for a weaker killer like Trapper or Pig.Either way, a small decrease in strength for 3 or 4-man SWF's, a slight buff for soloQ and a way to even the playing field among the killers.
Can do the same with killers or is it just for survivors?
How would we even do that without everyone defending that s-tiers need gen-regression?.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OAZXN0EKN40K/img-2268.jpeg
so happy we got the anti tunnel update. This game has never been better. Oh wait….
This is what happens if you listen to survivor and then dont listen to them and juggle.
Buff the low tiers, add anti-slug. And then experiment if that helps or not, then if not, you dont proceed because if you do tunneling, it wouldnt help.
If it does help, you also do with tunneling.
Instead they scared themselves because the people effected couldnt handle having a bigger challenge but survivors have "such a skull issue".
I heard battlefield 6 is on sale, maybe have fun with that.
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@BloodBird said:
If you use the perks, Hex: Devour Hope, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, Hex: Undying and Hex: Pentimento on the killer The Doctor with his Purple and Green Calm addons. You will unlock one of the most evil and unforgiving builds I've ever come across.
Just look at my killrate if you want evidence of how unstoppable this build can be ;)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4O9VEK26J4BC/img-6825.png
So...this is just a soloq stomp build.
I can also pull a soloq stomp build with plaything and excessively slug with third seal.
What are they gonna do then?.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
Hello, I’m once again back with probably one of my longest posts in forum history because I just enjoy yapping fr
so as we all know, a lot of discussion goes around balancing and the state of this game on the forums. what's interesting is when the discussions that are had here have gained the attention of youtubers and twitch streamers, whom contribute to these discussions outside of the platform. one of the more notable individuals i've personally seen review posts and talk about them recently is someone named "v.h.s.x", who is predominantly a ghostface main. their videos primarily address opinions surrounding perks, metas, addressing ‘us vs them’ statements, changes made to the game, and discussing other content creators’ opinions. This is pretty standard of those who engage in community discussions, but what makes this case interesting is the perspective and perception of the forums when talking about some of the posts that are made here.
What my opening post is about today isn’t focused on the topics themselves, but what influence such content can have in these conversations as well as the reinforcement of ideologies based on how a conversation is interpreted. Dead by daylight, over the course of its years, has seen much commentary from many different types of players. Often times, you would encounter posts and arguments that have what would be considered a bias. Bias is the nature of our human psyche, since talking points are often made from personal experiences and interpretations of the subject matter. The issue with bias is that it can often reduce someone’s perspective the longer that its reaffirmed. While this is a given, it’s something that people often ignore or forget about when engaging in conversations with others.
A good example of what I described is in real-world politics. I think social platforms that harbor discussions about this game is a near one-to-one example of how political commentary works. Various ideologies, or cultures, coming together to talk about their experiences and how they personally believe the world should be shaped. Some conversations bring good and can be very insightful, other conversations bring bad while being equally as insightful but encouraging change or behavior that does not help progress society as it is today. The quality of conversations is often dictated by one’s understanding and own personal verdict. If you apply this in the game’s current setting, you can see the same formula in the way that things are discussed here.
But what makes this particular person so interesting is their approach and how the things we see in today’s world tends to be reflected in content like this. Now before I get into it, I wanna preface this by saying that just because I am linking videos and talking about an individual person doesn’t give you the right to go out of your way to flame them or accuse them of anything. The whole point of this thread is to invoke a deep conversation about a smaller creator’s content, real-world attributes, and what it contributes to the on-going discussion. If you’re personally going out of your way to invalidate someone for having an opinion for something as trivial as a game, your arguments also deserve to be invalidated just the same.
On dec 6th, v.h.s.x posted a video providing their own perspective to a thread created by kaneyboy discussing kaneyboy ’s OP and the people commenting in it. In particular I wanted to address this conversation because I think it was probably one of the threads that deserved way more attention than just 2 pages, primarily because it allowed everybody’s unique perspective to be showcased. I actually encourage the video gets watched because it is formatted as a more of a counterargument to a lot of the things that were said in that thread and I’d like to see what people think about their points. I will not provide a summary because that is not the intention of this post
As I was watching this video and a few of the other submissions they created on their youtube channel, something I noticed is that the content that was made is more from the perspective of a killer than anything. In this case, this particular video I linked even states in the description that the posts were “broken down from their perspective as a top 1% P100 ghostface main, while also pulling from my own experience of playing over 400 hours of survivor”. There is a lot of statements containing language like “survivor rhetoric”, “survivor opinions”, or “survivor mains”, which is also very common on the forums. This is fine, as this is their way of addressing a specific group of people, but when you understand the concepts within political commentary, you can probably see why this can be a point of concern.
Naturally, someone may develop a preference for playing a particular side of the game due to how they perceive the game or what they feel comfortable learning, playing as, or controlling. Based on what side you may play as more, you’re more inclined to generalize or group together player types by their behavior the longer you grow familiar with similarities in players. However, this comes at the cost of over-generalization and assumption superseding the context of someone’s statement, which can ultimately devalue their personal experience and reasoning. If you do this enough times, you’re challenging the health of conversations and the ability to make clear what is exactly an issue and what isn’t.
This brings me two questions: what is the true validity of most arguments that are made in the community when such biases exist? How can you have a productive conversation and steer something in a healthier direction when discussions become gridlocked by subjectivity? These same questions exist in politics, which is what makes it really intriguing to read.
The reason why I propose these same questions is because of the overarching factor of experience and bias. Dead by daylight, despite is simplicity, is a very complex game. Much like the human experience, you are dealing with a multitude of factors that can influence how someone thinks, behaves, and destroys and builds. Even though this game features obvious variables in its balance like perks, the influence of data, map design, etc., at its core you are exposed to the behavior of humans due to it being a PVP-centric game. You have to spend an exorbitant amount of time understanding player behavior in this game to be able to leverage any of the tools the game offers you, whether its objective focused or interaction focused. I personally believe this makes up a majority of the friction that comes with playing this game: players truly not understanding players and the reasoning behind a decision. If there’s a misunderstanding, it is generally due to an assumption or lack of information to draw an effective conclusion.
The ultimate reality, to me, is that you will never truly 100% know why someone does something, so you are forced to guess based on how much time and information you collected about the people you play against. And yet so many of our arguments are based off of the premise of what we assume to know, and appear to advocate for reinforcement of a foundation that is very shaky. There is a lot of “no, you’re wrong” and less problem-solving to find a middle ground among the community. This brings me to take issue with both videos and posts like these.
Not necessarily because of what is being said, but the reinforcement of what is being said as if it is factual and that an entire group of people wholeheartedly believes. It’s like saying “all people that like the color blue are sad and all people that like red are angry all the time. Red is scary because anger is volatile, therefore the people that like the color blue are the best to be around because red-likers are more likely to be violent, and that everything should be put in place to limit red-likers to keep us safe as much as possible while taking care of the sad blue-likers”.
You never question where the association came from, why someone who likes red may even be angry in the first place, or even question why blue-likers are sad and supposedly require protection. Not once are you encouraged to think about why things are the way they are and what can be done to improve the situation as much as possible. Instead, you develop vitriol through confirmation bias as you begin to pay more attention to things that “prove” the argument that was made. It’s even worse when you encounter individuals who don’t want to learn, merely laugh at it and distance themselves from it, are close-minded, or cast it aside as a non-issue rather than considering the implications. If you put monetary or collective incentive behind this, either as a content creator or as a community-acknowledged ‘leader’, this escalates confirmation bias further. This is what people start to identify as an “echo chamber”. If you read comments or responses to videos and forum posts, you may see what I’m referring to.
Both sides, killer and survivor, inexperience and experienced, do this, and I think it heavily devalues our ability to communicate as people.
Is this a big deal? Not really in the context of DBD itself alone. It is a game at the end of the day. But it is concerning when rhetoric begins to sound awfully close to what we already deal with in today’s age as a society and how we talk about things. Video games, however, tend to be very good at showing what someone’s thought processes and perception of life may be like behind the screen.
Before this post ends up exceeding some character count by accident, I’m going to cut it short here. Let me know what you think. And please don’t use this post as an excuse to ACTUALLY get political. The reference to political commentary was more of a framework to my point.
The dude you are refrencing is just a ragebaiting killer main.
Why should i take whatever this dude seriously when he thinks that the game is so bad because of survivors?.
Im biased myself, everyone is to some degree, but atleast i dont defend the most aggrecious bs for views and engagement.
Or the notorious side of dbd yt with the : us vs them "toxic [side] gets stomped by p100". Videos.
Best you can do is not even give him attention, because he will never change his mind regardless what you say to this kind of hardcore us vs them mentality.
Even if we give them what they want, they will still complain and never be happy.
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@Xray said:
As time goes on and more killers get added and more tier lists are being made, their is one constant and that Trapper is always at the bottom of the hierarchy. Its no secret to those with functioning eyes and working thumbs that Trapper is god awful to play and even unplayable on certain maps, if you spawn on a map like Crotus Pren you basically just gotta accept that you have to shed three pounds in sweat to win or just accept that you will just lose and thier is nothing you can do about it. His need to pick up his power and the fact he has no movement means that he will always not be in the higher tiers but is that hard to just give him one more round of buffs to at least make him c tier? Whats even funnier is that BHVR once said that Trappers kill rate was good enough to not warrent a buff, but the problem with that is most of those kills come from new survivors who just got out of the worst tutorial on planet earth and are thrown into the deep end of the pool and are not told a thing about what killers do and how to counter them. If the DBD tutorial got updated and actually told you how to play against killers then Trappers killrate would drop to horrid levels. BHVR it's amazing to me that the poster boy of your most successful game is stuck at the bottom and you are for some reason just ok with letting him be known as the killer who will always known as a d tier killer.
I wouldnt mind him being buffed but i can garantie you ppl wont evolve and just basement camp him more than ever.
If trapper gets a buff from "kill rates" why wont other killers with high killrate wont be nerfed?.
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I dont get anyone whos using no mither or invo who isnt just a fresh install.
Genuine thrower perks.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040794#Comment_4040794
60% kill rate isn't a 60% win rate.
1k and 2k games contribute to the kill rate but aren't wins.
1k is 25%, 2k is 50%. 3k is 75%. Out of 4 or 100%.
Now if i asked what's closer to 60%. Its 2k. Which is a draw.
So you are more likely to draw and rarely win.
Since that extra 10% is giving you an edge to win.
Its not 50%, its 60%. You are nowhere near close to ever losing, since the loss condition is 1k or less. Or 25%. But statistically AND by the developers, you should be drawing and more win then you should ever lose.
Idk how else to explain it to you.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040830#Comment_4040830
Quite the opposite, survivor mains are the majority on this forum, it's clear by the upvote/downvote ratio on any post concerning the balance. This is why the game becomes increasingly more survivor favored, as the devs quickly implement any upvoted request and ignore any downvoted opinion.
Wouldnt explain all the nerfs soloq and survivor had this year and before that.
Why did conviction get nerfed?.
Why did fog-vials get nerfed to the ground, 2 weeks into release? While kaneki was left untouched.
Why did bhvr listen and fix streetwise and not kaneki kidnap?.
Streetwise and fog-vials were fixed before kaneki 4 months later in september.
Why would they nerf soloq with map offerings nerfs, oblivious perk buffs (or pinhead's perk being general) and spawn rules nerfing survivors even if you never played the meta.
Why would they nerf adrenaline and distortion?. Years before that?.
Why wont they nerf myer's thombstone addons until 9 years later?.
Why wont they nerf nurse or her addons?.
Why would they make killers consistently overtuned in power be released in such a state?.
And it keeps piling on if your statement is true, but its not.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040798#Comment_4040798
Whats the problem with a healing build? (If it isnt Plague or someone similar)
Doesnt help with gens. When killers bring gen-regression.
Doesnt help when you or others are slugged
Doesnt help when you or others are tunneled
Doesnt help when you or someone else is chased.
Doesnt help with soloq, unless you bring a self-heal build. But you still dont have windows and kindred.
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@Reinami said:
Its MMR based with RNG playing a heavy factor.
- At low MMR, the game is very killer sided
- At average MMR, the game is pretty balanced, but RNG can make most matches seem like a blowout one way or the other through crazy tiles that spawn for survivors, or deadzones, or really good 3 gen spawns etc.
- At high mmr, the game is very survivor sided.
However, the RNG in this game is so intense, you could have a low MMR game that is massively survivor sided with a ton of crazy setups (although its less of a problem because the survivors won't know how to use them very well) and similarly have massive deadzones at high mmr leaving the survivors with basically nothing to defend themsevles and creating a big blowout for the killer.
"Standart games only, low stakes matches excluded"
You are winning 60% of the time even against swf from mid to high mmr GLOBALLY.
Is this just denial?, like, im so confused where you get this from, i see no links or evidence anywhere where you would do such a claim.
"At high mmr, the game is survivor sided"
WHERE!??.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040050#Comment_4040050
You shouldnt play something that isnt fun for you. But everyone is different. I played mostly survivor for the event and only three killer rounds (for the killer-only challenges). I am an experienced player with zero need for bloodpoints and i play only solo que.
I just stick to killer until they maybe give me a reason to play or play battlefield.
But taking breaks doesnt really fix the issue within the game.
I play soloq, mates are throwing.
I play swf, play against 20 meta killers with meta builds in the event while im trying a healing build.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/462104/bring-back-distortion
my entire playstyle is based on stealth. i have never and still dont use distortion and i am still able to use stealth effectively.
tips for stealth:
- dont just hide avoiding the objective….you run the risk of crows and not only that but the killer and survivors seem to not like it, they will spot it and you could end up being targeted.
- do gens but pay attention to the map and WALK away from the gen if the killer is heading to you. a lot of people run and scratch marks are a dead give away or stay on the gen until the killer breathing down their neck.
- When in chase, dont tbag the killer after every pallet drop or stand there like a lemon…. turn corners and mix up the walk and run to spread the scratch marks out. its amazing how easy it is to confuse a killer doing this.
- know the killers aura perks and how they achieve an aura reading. This will help you avoid being detected when its triggered. A good example of this is no where to hide. keep your distance from the gen by walking away at the right time so your aura isnt picked up.
- knowing how the aura perks works also helps with avoiding lethal. Assume at the start of the match your aura is already read by the killer, you can now use that to mislead the killer into thinking your heading in 1 direction but after 4 seconds change direction.
- while there are a good few aura perks available to the killer, most killers actually use slow down perks and use other perks to show them where people are such as pain res that trigger a loud noise or killer instinct which gives an indicator of where you are but not an exact aura read. This helps you to find an obscure place to hide or walk to so when the killer comes looking they know someone is around there but dont know exactly where. looking for you for too long can cost the killer gens so they wont look too long before heading somewhere else.
many matches i am often last survivor remaining or i escape due to being harder to find than the other people. Stealth isnt a 1 job fix all way of playing though. It will not work all the time but if you combine good stealth play with good looping you will do well in your matches.
This ######### is just beyond way too much effort and nearly impossible since.
Who's gonna do the middle gens?. Doesnt work in soloq and most swfs dont have the knowledge to listen and care to do so.
If you dont, you will be 3 genned and if that happens, stealthing doesnt matter anymore and you can have fun battling a 3 gen for 15-30 mins, just to lose.
You know what worked?, just using a perk and genrush.
Cant have that anymore because for some reason its not a skill issue for the killer to find you, but turn into to survivors ratting...even though im doing the objective and stalling the next chase, not wasting resources for the other person to be chased.
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@Ricardo170373 said:
Aura, aura, aura, aura, aura, how i am supposed to hide? every single killer every time know wherer u are because the killers have a lot os aura reading perks. Honestly why distortion was nerfed? just 1 perk for a decent counter to aura reading. Im tired
This idea is copied from Wezqu on december 16 :
Make token gain from generator fixing progress. Makes it more useful and as killer aura perks are just getting more and more. It also would make people do objectives.
This would literally fix the ratting issue and make distortion how it was before.
Not a stupid chase/stealth hybrid perk that no one is using (garantied, have yet seen a single person who used old distortion before, use the new distortion)
And before anyone points that this change was neccesary, it wasnt.
It didnt fix the ratting issue and now killers spam auras more than ever due to the buffs with zero consequences.
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@Anti051 said:
Why would the devs listen to a bunch of emotional noobs demanding a change that would prevent most of the killer roster from being able to stop survivors from escaping in advanced play?
The only way that hardcore blockages on "tunneling" could work is if it becomes physically impossible to complete all gens in under 4 minutes. Too many of you stop your thought process at getting what you want without considering if there would still be a contest afterward.
Most of the survivor horde evidently thinks that every killer has the same level of power and that they should all be forced to play for 12 hooks (in perfect rotating order) on top of multiple second chances inside of a 4-minute timer and that "if they're good enough" they can still stop everybody no matter which killer is being played.
Unironically complaining that you're not being listened to when you're literally asking the dev to break the contest of the game for your own egoic satisfaction = WeirdMaxxing
DbD is becoming one gigantic lesson in game design about what happens when you continuously make developments off the copium-based opinions of game-scrubs.
In reference to the true definition of the word "scrub" as far as game design goes - https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
You are winning 60% of your matches no matter what.
Seems more like a skill issue to not being able to handle a little challenge once in a while instead of just going on winstreaks.
Dont believe me?, go find a swf who is willing to try this and you will not go past 20, garantied.
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@artblizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039599#Comment_4039599
So, if you put it that way, you're not testing any PTB, since PTB has good and bad ideas, and if you don't test and only read about the idea, it's worthless. I believe it could be implemented if it's well-adjusted, and I believe they could indeed create a test version for this idea.
Even if i agree,
People shut it down entirely twice,
So why should killers get that but not survivors?, i would riot and wish the same thing would happen If killers got a corrupt basekit PTB.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038706#Comment_4038706
This is exactly the reason why we have it - and it also integrates into our systems!
Forum bug reporting was never a good tool, we've wanted to move away from it for quite some time, forums are just not designed for that. Having a tool like this is ideal, it not only takes reports and integrates them into our systems, but also acts as a known issues board in a way, also when you are creating a report, it is able to mark as duplicates etc, which is a big time save and allows us to offer a much better service.
So we need to :
Report it in the endgame match screen,
Report to the forums,
Report it on their discord server,
Report it on their twitter account,
And then report it on their betahub bug report..?
Then there's the question why some things take months and years of fixing, no matter the severity.
Kaneki's kidnap took 4 months to fix.
Fog-vials have yet to be fixed and are left to rot.
then theres the much older list of killer bugs that arent fixed or say have been fixed but somehow still break again, like slingers chain breaking faster than it should.
Why would reporting it on more platforms, do anything?.
I ask because, if the precious platforms dont seem to work, wouldnt that suggest it being an internal issue?.
In my perspective, reporting on the bug report section, seem'ed to work fine for me. I wish that would've been expanded instead of just adding another website,
For example, if people used the same keywords, the website would suggest checking out the unfinished open threads to see if its the same issue and post on it or make a new post.
Another worry is, there have been cases where reports have just been outright ignored, like trickster seizure bug, where the cut effects would flash the screen.
Which just leads to the question, what would doing another platform do?.
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FYI : they are just on trial version of the anti-cheat
And i dont think they even did anything to combat cheating this year.
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@LazyClown said:
These systems you have added in don't do anything I still see camping, tunneling and slugging occurring. Youy cannot stop this in DBD, so I think it's fair, you guys wasted a lot of time.
Bring back Dead hard for distance, ds 5 seconds, no more conspicuous actions system. Please also make any necessary changes for the low tiers to be able to camp and hook grab again, also allowing anti exhaustion as well. Reassurance, shoulder, dead mans and scourge pain res good riddance as well.
This high mobility killer disaster game has gotta change back. We need variety back in DBD, this isn't it guys.
Because the changes that they promised in the ptb were completely scrapped.
Would've loved to see anti-slug messures at least, but all they did was add a ramp up to anti-camp...
oh and before you complain about sabo, they could've reworked or nerfed them to the ground.
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@Xray said:
Since we are a couple days away from the new year and Year 10 for DBD is about to start, if you made the decisions how would the next year of content play out? Heres some of what my ideal year would be.
Buff Trapper to at least high C Tier
Swamp Rework
Twins Rework/Recode
Buff weak killer and survivor perks to change up the stale meta
Diablo as a full chapter
Have more band shirts (would love some Sleep Token shirts)
Probably when i joined. (2023)
Both sides had busted perks or/and killers,
Events were fun for both sides.
Heck, they made soloq playable on halloween event, insane to think about, how much an event can be fun if you just think a couple of steps ahead.
The reason why i loved halloween event, is because people were rewarded for doing gens, so everyone did gens 24/7 and the meta killers, blight and nurse, were handicapped since survivors used portals mid-chase and gain massive distance, giving variety to other killers.
But it wssnt completely survivor sided since killers can still use the event to their advantage.
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@singedeiru said:
I get incidents that I down someone and I just don't get the prompt to hook them with hook not being broken.
Is it a bug or do they cheat in my 1/10 games now?
Either the hook itself is bugged or you played against a cheater who managed to disable the hook prompt.
We dont know which is which, since we cant see what happened. Sorry.
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@azaxydbd said:
played all day btw, honesty i wont even lie i will just be front and honest as possible, FIX UR SERVERS! i swear i never had such bad experience for so long, like what is this game? not only that i get the worst possible maps with the worst possible RNG factors, i also get terrible teammates that have allergy to gens and all those killers pub comping like their lives depends on every game, both in event and normals, i had looped a wesker 3min first chase, 3 freaking minutes and i had 0 gens done, the dude end up leaving me and getting other downs elsewhere, when there was no pallets on the maps he was able to down me then node at me and hump me on the floor, what is this? im 1000 times his level of skill and he gets rewarded for it? no wonder nobody wants to play soloq, disaster of experience, make a ping system, and fix the servers like damn i cannot believe i got hit from 3 meters by m1, all those killers will need actual skill to get me if not for their bs hits that hits behind walls and objects, hits behind pallets and windows, dbd is the only game where a person lack skill and get rewarded for it, ive never seen a game that reward such bad plays.
And people want soloq to be nerfed more.
But also at the same time say that swfs are unfair or cheating.
Swf is the only reliable way to play survivor without giving you pure frustration, match after match.
Not every match is a comp swf but they pretend like it is. (When its not)
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@Junylar said:
With the current state of the game balance, tunneling is a necessary condition for just having a chance at winning against a competent SWF on comms. They will run 16 second chance perks and take 7 hits for each hook state each, making it only possible to secure a kill if you just focus one guy. You will finish consuming his endurances and hastes just when they pop the last gen, if you are lucky. If tunneling becomes impossible, but SWFs continue to be allowed to the general queue and second chance perks are not nerfed, the kill rate will drop to 5% at the higher MMR brackets, and these 5% will be due to the cheaters with insta kill bots.
If you are tired of playing survivor - just play killer, and after a few 4k's and leaving the baby MMR bracket you will start encountering the invincible quartets and the Achaemenid immortals I'm talking about, you will quickly change your mind after hitting a guy 8th time in a row and still failing to actually hook him.
This is the same excuse people have used to hitting off hook with no bt protection, camping or using noed.
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@exDbd said:
every since that update didn’t go through- killers have been so annoying with the tunneling, it’s like every SINGLE game. We are complaining and complaining and it seems NO ONE is listening. Can we get an update regarding this anti tunneling update? All we heard was it wasn’t going through no information on if there needs to be more testing or anything at all. We know you all see our messages but when will you all make a post, stream etc regarding this? Us survivors have HAD enough!
Mind you, they promised they would do something 9 months ago.
And now its scrapped, that hope and idea is as good as dead, even if they give out more ptb or "future ideas".
Either because the idea is bad or even if the idea like basekit unbr the longer and more you slug overall, is objectively a good addition, killers will never go along with it.
The only thing they can do is a whole meta shake up which makes both sides relearn how to win a game.
Not just genrushing/looping or tunneling and slugging.
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@jedimaster505 said:
the game is heavily killer sided according to science and objectivity. why then the killers crying so much about it being survivor sided? let me tell you...
- their MMR is inflated
first thing which happens is a new killer curb stomps their opponent when playing at their true MMR because the game balance holds killers hands. then their MMR skyrockets and who do they go against? primarily cheaters, sweaty swfs and the best solo Q vets Dbd has to offer. then their win streak is broken and they post a video demanding survivor nerfs. like yeah, when your opponent is primarily the sweatiest upper skill bracket with a bunch of subtle cheaters in the mix, that's gonna feel survivor sided. but you're ignoring the huge percentage of solo Q players that you effortlessly massacred on auto pilot to get to that point.
2. entitlement
since killer is so easy they get used to getting 3-4k almost every match so they don't feel like they're "winning" unless they get a 4k every game. even though 2k is a perfectly balanced draw, in many killer mains eyes they see that as a loss because you can literally just meme around and get a 2k on auto pilot with even the low tier killers so it never really feels earned. they see their idols like momo and otz and true talent getting huge killer win streaks and they think they're a failure if they only get a balanced result like 50% kill rate avg. to be honest you kinda are since killer role is easy mode in 2025
3. killer main politics
I watched a recent dev live stream on YouTube and a dev said to type K, S, or B in chat to see if you're a killer main, survivor main or hybrid. overwhelming the chat was flooded with K's. there were hardly any S's and B's.
this didn't surprise me. I've always noticed how much louder killer mains are on social media. there's a killer main culture where they learned to cry very very loud on social media. the moment a sensible balance change is implemented by the devs, social media is inundated with an angry mob of killer mains posting doom videos about how they're quitting dbd.
so this scares BHVR who then reverts the changes until they are a joke (cough cough...anti tunneling, slugging and camping). survivor mains complain just not nearly as loud and the most popular streamers tend to be killer mains , like otz and true talent who are basically the mascots of dbd community. and since BHVR wants to be able to say they "listen" to feedback, game design choices get largely dictated by subjective politics instead of objectivity. cause what they're largely hearing is the noise of all those K's in the live stream chat.
more examples, Reddit killer mains have a dedicated Dead by daylight killers subreddit and survivor mains have no such equivalent. they're just not nearly as coordinated in their digital outcry. or Steam reviews, there are far more killer mains threatening to uninstall if anti tunnel changes are implemented.
4. survivor mains have learned to adapt, killer mains are stuck in their ways
survivors are always adapting to new killers added to the game, so we're used to learning new things and dealing with adversity, especially the solo Q vets. killer mains are set in their ways and not accustomed to adversity, so any sensible balance change that would make the game fair is perceived as BHVR ruining the game for killers. God forbid blight and his crutch slowdown perks be nerfed...we can't be letting momo lose his nearly 2k win streak now can we. that would be far too upsetting for all the wannabe momo blights that think they're actually good.
lastly if you think about killer mains, a lot of them play a bunch of different killers and expect to perform well on all of them. so for example they put like 500 hrs into killer role but that experience is spread across 10 different killers, which means they only have an average of 50 hrs of experience on any given killer, or maybe 100 on their favorite killer. so if they go up against survivors with 500 hrs dedicated to survivor role, the survivor actually has 5-10 times the experience in their specialty.
there you have it, the hard truth about why killer mains think a heavily killer sided game is survivor sided
This image alone should make anyone who says its survivor sided, shut up.
And no, its not designed to be survivor sided, it never was.
(Yes, even with the drastic meta's on both sides with perks and maps)
I dont want to flip the game to be survivor sided.
The Problem for me is, why should i ever play survivor when it requires more hours for less reward, for less fun than it is on killer?.
Even on events, besides one event this year, being bloodmoon, you have no reason to ever play survivor as a more experinced player, who isnt thirsty for bloodpoints.
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Like distortion. If the killer isnt running aura perks.
its a empty perk slot.
but it now being a general perk, its unlikely it will ever get a buff.
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@artblizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039546#Comment_4039546
Even though it wasn't received and was discarded, it had a PTB trial, it was tested, and many gave their opinions on it, so I ask you, why can't this idea be tested as well? Or can only one side have updates and the other not?
Because like many said with the anti changes.
This idea doesnt need to be tested because its bad.
I dont need to taste rotten food when it looks and smells rotten.
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@artblizzard said:
Survivors have anti-camp and BT base kit, and anti-slug and anti-tunnel were also considered. Why can't assassins have a perk where the perk undergoes a rework blocking 2 or all genjutsu for a much shorter time? This would allow Corrupt to be part of the assassins' base kit.
Which we arent getting or will be nerfed a month later, So this point is already discarded.
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@artblizzard said:
I wanted to discuss why this perk hasn't become a core part of the game yet. I mean, the lockout time could be reduced, but I've never seen anyone consider making it an base kit, nor the advantages and disadvantages of that decision.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/12M4NZ0VGM6D/images-2816-29.jpeg
You already got that with spawn rules.
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@dramafinesseXD said:
with this perk becoming general it’s gonna be a good solution to tunnelling and most of the community have always stated decisive was fine at 5 seconds idk why you guys changed it to 4 or even 3 in the first place
Now DS is a general perk I think buffing it and making it a stronger anti tunnel for new players that isn’t locked behind a paywall is a great idea
honestly now that its a general perk, its more likely to be nerfed than ever be buffed.
i would love for it to be 5 secounds, because i dont see a reason why it shouldnt be good at its one function, anti-tunnel.
the only people who complained, where killers tunneling. -
@BongoBoys said:
It's been a couple Patches and Dracula still hasn't been Killswitch? For people who don't know Dracula Wolf Form doesn't consume PWYF tokens so he can be a permanent 15% faster wolf.
What's going on Devs I know the mods seen and sent it to y'all why hasn't it been fixed or at least Killswitched
money.
they'll happily killswitch anything thats not liecense related.
(kaneki kidnap) -
@exDbd said:
since no one else is going to state this- I will.
we need to get rid of all these high ping / vpn abusers.
EVERY single game I played today killer had ping of 100+
I have a proactive suggestion or 3
1- let us see the ping of ALL players in the pregame lobby
2- give us an option to turn on a setting where ping above 100 cannot be paired with us
3-lower your ping limit allotment
killers have been getting free hits, using high ping to their advantage. Not saying everyone needs to have great internet but it’s kinda necessary when playing online games to prevent bugs, glitches etc.
what are your thoughts on high ping ?they wouldnt do it because it would discourage ppl from playing…
not like it already makes people several reason not to play survivor. -
@Wiccamanplays said:
I'm so tired of horrible matches where I feel totally powerless as Killer and I've lost before the match even begins because of perk/power/map/MMR matchups. I no longer have faith that BHVR can fix these problems, so just let me go next without having to DC like Survivors can.
name me one situation where a surrender is NEEDED.
similar to survivors being slugged for 4 minutes or hiding for the entire match to never progress the game. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038950#Comment_4038950
I mean, the initiative isn't over yet?
It carries on into February.
the majority of the things that were promised didnt get delivered
the game is still buggy and the anti-changes that was promised to us 9 months ago, are scrapped.
frankly, the perk loadout being on the hud, will not change the nerfs we already recieve this year (if the killer mains wont complain about that to oblivious and also get that shut down too)
the stuff onward to feburary, i dont care about and frankly shouldnt need the operation health to begin with.
at most, maybe mmr changes, but i doubt they wont screw it up further.
i mean, every new content or rework, is : overtuned, boring or underbuffed to the extremes.
and i havent even mentioned the events and survivor content that has left me questioning why i bothered being a survivor main in the first place.