NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533089#Comment_533089
I don't see those as nerfs, tbh. The changes seem more intended to reinforce the stealth aspect of the killer.
Adjusting his add-ons is actually necessary because he can out-stalk the detection timer even though you're staring at each other from 5 feet away. It kind of breaks the whole "stealth killer" aspect.
Pallet stuns breaking him out of stealth... I mean, if you're aware enough to stun him with a pallet, I'd say you've detected him. That's only fair.
Marked survivors no longer able to be stalked. I think that one is pretty fair because the survivor should be rewarded if they extend a chase for 45 seconds without being hit, and I could also see scenarios where Ghostface could just infinitely juggle the exposed timer on survivors in certain maps. Not exactly balanced.
Killer instinct duration and add-ons are being buffed.
Detection area increase could go either way. It's pretty tight as it stands now. And there are situations where you know he's there, you have him dead center, but you also need to run and the camera moves slightly so you lose detection progress.
@edgarpoop Nerfs that make sense are still nerfs.
Nerfs to things that shouldn't have existed in the first place are still nerfs
A nerf is just a change that makes something worse. The only argument that can be made in order to establish that something isn't a nerf is to somehow establish that the change doesn't make the altered thing worse.
Being knocked out of stealth when stunned IS a nerf. So is not being able to restalk someone and being slightly easier to detect (not easier to find, easier to do the mechanical action called detecting). And the stalk rate addon nerf is certainly a nerf.
The fact that there is a reason behind the nerfs is simply irrelevant to if they are nerfs or not.
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Remember. Being tunneled is essentially random, while delaying a death due to a tunnel and surviving a non-tunneling killer is not. That means over the course of multiple games you will be accurately assessed at how good you were compared to the Killers you just face. Even if that one game was BS, the upsides of having a ranking system that deranks you when you accomplish nothing outweigh the downsides of having the reason for accomplishing nothing sometimes not being entirely your fault.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/530727#Comment_530727
But your left side looks better.
I know but aesthetics aren't everything. My right side has more features.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/530853#Comment_530853
No, if you can make it to endgame by yourself then the odds shouldn't be stacked against you because chances are your team were terrible and it led to you being alone. Even so, the killer should not have doors be able to spawn on the same wall in endgame collapse. They already have enough power with the timer and the ability to close hatch. But let's say you made it to endgame and your team wasn't garbage, should the killer be handed a free four man because of door spawns? That doesn't seem right.
@Crazewtboy I mean if he was able to kill 3 of the survivors before the endgame against a competent team then getting the 4th one wasn't free
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Same reasoning applies to why I don't think STBFL is good on Legion
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@Poweas said:
@TreemanXD But against a good Plague, you're screwed with the 12.8 seconds lost. With perks like Surveillance and STBFL, she can very efficiently snowball you. It'd get boring winning so easily, but it is a fix.
@Poweas Why STBLF on a plague? The benefit you get when using it on an injured target is very small. And since it doesn't effect corrupt you don't get much use out of it when they cleanse either.
Same thing applies to expose perks.
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I prefer the right side
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Oh no. Anything but a Killer in a horror game being terrifying. What ever shall we do.
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Also I am aware that the sounds in general would need to be fixed for any of this to work. I even said so in the OP that the sounds in general need to be fixed. And again.
INJURED NOISES WOULD ONLY BE QUIETED IF YOU ARE CROUCHING. OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE LIKE NORMAL.
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@ReikoMori said:
Most of these changes seems to do nothing that deals with how chases actually work. Neither side truly benefits and map design isn't taken into account. Also every killer by default moving like pre nerf Legion, but the vaulting like post nerf Legion just seems random. Survivors sounds are constant broken from the killer side so making them even quieter just for crouch is basically telling killers they need to use Stridor all the time. Scratchmarks are one of the most misleading bits of information that survivor produces. Yet, they are the only thing that makes large maps playable in terms of searching and keeping track of running survivors. Crawling speed doesn't need a buff as slugging isn't supposed to be interesting. It shouldn't even need to happen, but considering how most things happen too fast as it is we gotta do it.
@ReikoMori Old legion moved at either 4.4 M/S or 5.28 M/S depending on frenzy and new Legion moves at either 4.6 M/S or 5.0 M/S depending on frenzy.
How exactly does most killers moving at 4.8 M/S make them like either version of Legion? It's just permanent tier 1 bloodlust (which to be fair is a big deal).
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@Tru3Lemon said:
why buffs for survivors they only thing they need its rework most of the useless perks and probably kindred be a basekit thats it they dont need buffs for theyre basekit
@Tru3Lemon to give an alternative chase method after buffing Killers to easily ignore their main one (looping)
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@GreyCat said:
Where is Leatherface? :(
What's a leatherface? Last time I checked there was only 1 killer with a chainsaw.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/530261#Comment_530261
So discussing peacefully a normal thread is being a clown nowdays?
You need to think twice about who is the one being ridiculous here.
@Andreyu44 it's being a clown in that it's not the norm. How many threads don't just turn into a pissing contest? Not enough that's for sure.
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I think it should be a general action speed buff instead of just a repair speed buff
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't mean this to reflect negatively toward any streamers, but the top ones tend to lose perspective and forget that most of us don't play the game for a living or have 3k plus hours. Most opinions that streamers like ScottJund, Zubat, etc., give should come with a "results not typical" disclaimer. The most ridiculous one I hear is that Spirit doesn't need add-ons. That just sets a discouraging expectation for people who aren't optimal all the time. Again, I'm not claiming that they're deliberately misleading or even wrong, it's just that their opinions need to be taken with a grain of salt and context.
@edgarpoop as a not streamer not amazing spirit main I still don't feel like I need addons. Especially not her best addons. Most of what you can do with spirit doesn't require addons at all, they just make it slightly faster to pull off, which is great and all but not required.
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@Raptorrotas said:
- So survivors could sneak around faster but dont have to becauwer running like headless chicken will not be as visible as before.
- Adjustment of killer speed while making lots of exceptions... All killers could use those 0.2 increase. Yes, even nurse.
- Why the decrease in vaulting speed? And another exception.
- Making injured survivors quieter...
Im probably too biased to see how most of these changes could be considered good by anyone.
@Raptorrotas the exceptions are because the top tier Killers don't have an issue with MS. And thus the increase is just buffing where it isn't needed.
The decrease in vault speed is explained in the thread itself. The reason for the Myers being an exception is because extra vault speed is supposed to be one of his core benifits, so it would make sense for him to maintain the current vault speed instead
As for injured survivors quieter, it's only while crouching which is part of why crouching is a bit faster.
Really the reason why the survivor walking speed increase is important really just comes down to sound. While right now doesn't matter anyways, but if they fix the sounds (which they should do) then it would be far more important.
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@NightIsBeautiful said:
I think tunneling is reportable if you have video evidence is it not?
@NightIsBeautiful it is not. Tunneling and camping are both strategies (although camping is generally a bad one). Preforming a strategy like that is not a bannable offence even if it annoys you.
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Freddy:
Overcharge, Unnerving presence, Distressing, Dark devotion.
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@GrootDude said:
@NuclearBurrito I’ve seen some good no mither players. *cries*
Yes but they would play even better if they ran a perk besides no mither.
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Like. Even if he moved at survivor speed for a full second after throwing his tonic. His average speed over the next 2 seconds:
4+4.6 = 8.6
compared to the average speed for the slowed survior
3.4*2 = 6.8
8.6-6.8 = 1.8 meters gained on the survivor
Compared to without his power
4.6*2 = 9.2
4*2 = 8
9.2-8 = 1.2 meters gained on the survivor
1.8-1.2 = 0.6 extra meters gained by using his power.
And remember, that's assuming the survivor stays in the gas for the absolute minimum amount of time possible. Every additional second is an extra 0.6 meters gained on the survivor (for a total of 1.2 M/S gained).
Actually. Just for fun lets see how long he would need to slow a survivor if his power put him at a dead stop for 1 second.
Using the power initially gives the survivor 3.4 meters of distance. Each additional second is 1.2 meters gained on the survivor so starting at 4 seconds of slow (3*1.2 = 3.6) you start to gain distance on the survivor, meaning if you can keep the survivor in the gas for 2 seconds (since it lingers for the remaining 2 seconds) then you will gain distance on the Survivor regardless of how big the slowdown on the power happens to be.
That a good enough mathematical counter argument for you?
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like in a straightaway?
Because I don't buy that the slowdown when throwing is harsh enough to completely cancel out the hinder
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Can someone show a side by side of how long it takes the clown to reach a survivor with vs without using his power.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/529072#Comment_529072
A perk doesn’t make them bad.
No Mither says hello
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Also. Everyone who is trying to use perks here. Please just stop, it's really not helping. Miaasma is right about how you shouldn't need to always bring a perk just in case.
Yes I know Killers have that problem with SF + Enduring + Ruin, but it's a PROBLEM for a reason and isn't something we should make worse.
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528635#Comment_528635
my experience both playing hag and playing against competent hags is that they use a mix of placing traps as they run around and place traps at loops in order to zone people into those traps. a good hag can't really be looped but hag is slow and if you know not to stay in any one place for long she can be reliably played against
my issue with spirit is that whether or not you fall for her "mindgames" isn't really up to you, it's just up to how good the spirit player is
when i think mindgame, i think of a high wall pallet loop where the survivor can't directly see the killer and needs to predict based on tells (red stain, moonwalking) where the killer is going to be. if they predict correctly they get a loop out of it, if they predict incorrectly they run into the killer and get hit. what makes this a mindgame is that both players have to work to outplay each other
when a survivor is being chased by a spirit at a loop, she has plenty of tells to just react to; she can stand still and observe the survivor until they either run towards her (at which point she just moves and hits them) or away from the loop (at which point she uses her power and uses audio-visual cues to locate them). on the survivor's side, you have to effectively guess at what she's doing because you can't know whether she's using her power. that for me is where it stops being a mindgame and just becomes a guessing game. it becomes even worse when you're injured and the spirit just echolocates you while you try to move unpredictably
i think that's where we differentiate; you kind of are helpless against a good spirit, similarly to how you're helpless against a good nurse. i play on PC so nurses are everywhere and with the addons they have they don't need to be any good to be a waste of time to play against. spirit isn't as bad but in a sense is more frustrating because nurse at least can be mindgamed slightly by breaking line of sight and making her over-blink. the problems people have with nurse apply to spirit, just to a lesser degree because she is overall nowhere near as strong as nurse (no one is)
@miaasma That's not what a mindgame is. If you have enough information to deduce the correct action for sure then it's a reaction. A mindgame has only 3 requirements:
A: Both players having unreliable information on each others next move
B: The other player having the ability to counter any given action you could reasonably take in the current situation
C: The other player not being able to counter all of your possible actions at the same time
When the spirit phases requirement A is always fulfilled. The spirit's body viably stops moving, this is unreliable information. And the survivors body disappears leaving you only with their last known location, also unreliable information. Scratchmarks are generally reliable but cleaver jukes can keep them from being totally reliable.
While B is not always fulfilled (for example if you are injured in the open) it often is for example if the Survivor is at a dropped pallet.
The reason why spirit is so good is because requirement C is nearly always fulfilled.
However ANY time all 3 requirements are met the action being taken is a mind game (or at least close enough to one mechanically)
More specifically it's a kind of mindgame refered to as WIFOM or Wine In Front Of Me, referencing the princess bride scene.
Here is the scene itself just for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9TRMQwMNnY. Funnily enough it isn't an actual example.
a more detailed explaination of WIFOM: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM
That explaination is geared towards mafia. But a lot of the same ideas still apply here.
The TLDR is that: These kinds of predictions always SEEM random, and if they were against a computer then they very much could be. However in reality it comes down to psychology and patterns. You start by predicting a spirit based on what most spirits have done, and then switch to predicting based on what that specific spirit actually has done as you go through chases.
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something
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TBH I'd go so far as to say it should be 4.0 M/S
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Tunneling is in general simply a good idea. A player using an effective strategy does not imply poor skill, in fact it is the opposite. Yes there are obviously times where you shouldn't tunnel. But all things being equal it's best to target the player you've hooked the most over anyone else.
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Look. The only real way to fix SWF is to make it's benefits redundant or at least close enough to redundant.
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I maintain what I said. Problematic or not, directly punishing SWF is NOT a viable solution
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Head on, Decisive strike, literally every pallet.
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Ok but then what should I do as killer if the DS user has Deliverance? Or if the unhooker ghosts around.
Or if I used MYC and have already downed and hooked the Unhooker and find you again before 60 seconds is up?
60 seconds is enough time to pick yourself up from the ground, so being slugged itself has counters
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It's an awesome social deduction game. Look it up on steam
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@madgamer166 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527663#Comment_527663
Where is that even from?
Throne of lies
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Removing or punishing SWF is unfeasible due to the nature of what makes it a problem in the first place.
As for the gen rush thing, at the very least diminishing returns is a silly and pointless solution. Even with no efficiency penalties at all it is best to work on different generators which would negate that method of balance. And there is already a 10% decrease in efficiency per extra survivor on a gen.
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@paint1210 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527034#Comment_527034
no, they mention that they already fix the bug "When you using her power or vault window, you original body will shows red stain."
So the previous patch is all bug. Just like basement grass moving. It is a bug, not MinDGamE.
From the patch
- Fixed an issue that caused The Spirit to see her Husk's killer stain when phasing and vaulting.
@paint1210 she still has a red stain. The Killer just isn't supposed to see it.
Remember the issue was that the SPIRIT was seeing the killer stain.
Not the existence of the Killer stain in the first place.
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really just adds 0.2 onto all his stats
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TBH I'd just make T1 have a 0.4 second lunge and not have EW3 have the pallet break increase.
That would make each tier up consistent in effect which makes it more intuitive.
Each tier: Doubles terror radius (yeah I know EW1 is 6 meters not 8 but eh close enough), speeds up vaulting by 0.2 seconds, adds 0.2 seconds onto the lunge and increases MS by 0.2 M/S
please note that a 5% increase in movement speed is NOT 0.2 M/S. But rather 0.23 M/S, so yeah, that.
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heh
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@Gardenia said:
@MasonMyers69 chill please. They have a point. Them fixing that doesn't mean he'll be weaker, its just something that should be. And defending or denying this will indicate you like things broken. It will be better for the health of the game if that were fixed. That's what the PTB is for, to fix these things. It's not a balance issue, it's a technical one it seems.
@Gardenia it's absolutely a balance issue as it effects his chase potential which is very important
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Can we just kick survivors in general? I don't like them
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@Jplanas98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527647#Comment_527647
By basement I was referring to the schools basement. That's why I talked about chasing survivorsurvivors through the school.
Ah. There's the context I was missing.
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Since when are there pallets in the basement?
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Good news. They are (apparently) trying to fix the number of safe pallets to be more reasonable.
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@Redd said:
My standard build is:
Sprint Burst
Self Care
Urban Evasion
Borrowed Time / Bond / Iron Will / Quick & Quiet
Why should I run Poised over one of those?
@Redd swap out self care for a med kit, and then run poised in the free slot. Use QaQ as the 4th.
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I don't see the problem here. What needs fixing exactly?
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It's like an unsafe pallet interaction, but with normally safe pallets
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527412#Comment_527412
i don't know if some selective reading is going on or if there's a legitimate cognitive dissonance happening here, but here goes
spirit doesn't need to "predict" anything because she has mid-phase tells; she has collision, she has audio (when it's working) and she has scratch marks, not to mention environmental effects like grass moving. none of that is "prediction". even nurse involves more prediction than spirit does lol
on the other hand, the survivor doesn't predict anything because the survivor has literally no idea what's happening at any point in time and has to guess based on how the spirit has been playing. that's closer to prediction but it's prediction based on nothing inherent to the killer
so in the survivor/killer interaction you have one side (the spirit) who has plenty of tools to figure out where the survivor is, and the survivor has 0 tools to figure out where the spirit is, or if she's even using her power. that is not well designed gameplay. one side is guessing, one is not. i have been saying this multiple times throughout the thread and people just kind of plug their ears while regurgitating the same "she's mindgaming you!!" points over and over again. i'm not trying to shame anyone for playing or enjoying spirit, i'm just telling you that she's not a well designed killer
@miaasma when it comes to at the very least the decision of "Will he vault the pallet or not" the ques aren't enough. By the time you hear the pallet vault you are either on the correct side or you aren't.
The audio que from injured doesn't matter because you already know he's on the other side of the pallet right now, the question is what he will do by the time you've phased over (or not)
Scratchmarks don't really matter since again, it's a pallet vault (or not), so that doesn't really help
As for other situations it really depends on what is happening. Even in a straight away assuming they aren't injured if you phase right at them they can 360 around you, they won't usually hit your collision since they aren't turning DIRECTLY around (just a fairly tight u turn) and the scratchmarks are overlapping (Unless she's running predator) so the spirit won't immediately see where they went. In that particular case the spirit will obviously notice that scrachmarks stop appearing and that they should probably turn around, however by that point you bought yourself time to run her out of phase walk.
And lets say She counters this by just turning directly around still in phase to catch up to you again. You could just stop running and move to the side, now you AREN'T 360ing her but you are making it look like you are.
While there is stuff that spirit can do against running, 360ing or walking, she can't counter all 3 at once and can only differentiate so well between the 3 (in that particular case being injured changes this)
And of course there are cases involving window jukes ect where you can use slow vaults to hide notifications, or just fast vault if you don't think she's on the other side. Or maybe even fast vault one way and then immediately slow vault back depending on her initial distance.
Sound ques and scratchmarks aren't 100% reliable even when they are working as intended.
Yes she has an advantage of over you in these interactions, no ######### she does, if she didn't then she wouldn't be a good killer in the slightest. That's why she was ######### pre-buff. But an advantage does not mean a guarantee.