NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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- NuclearBurrito
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@Redd said:
This would really hurt the game balance at lower ranks. ... Honestly they need to start making survivor objectives harder based on how high your rank is.
Or in more practical terms: The Killer should have some skill based method of making survivor objectives harder.
Since having the game's balance directly effected by rank defeats the point of ranks.
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Interesting extrapolation
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Actually I'ma update that suggestion with a new version. I had some idea's I'd like to pitch reguarding it.
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After all if the issue was the time from start of game to escaped then we could give all non-top tier Killers a speed boost to solve the problem.
Basically:
Nurse, Spirit, Hag, Billy, Shape would be the same
Everyone else get's +5% MS always.
While it would certainly solve the gen rush's speed problem (since faster killers can handle the current speed) it wouldn't make the game more interesting.
What we REALLY need is a mechanical benefit to prolonged games as survivors, so long as they need to actively obtain those benefits.
An example would be this: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/61175/mid-match-upgrading-a-different-kind-of-secondary-objective#latest
The only reason to not rush the objective is to make it so that you will have a better chance at completing the objective later. And so a good secondary objective should always make sure to accomplish that.
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Actually. HERE is an unpopular opinion:
Secondary objectives won't (inherently) solve gen rush
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@PigNRun said:
About PWYF, currently, you lose stacks for being stunned by a pallet. Its not listed on the description. I think (along with your suggestion) that should be changed.
Wait really? That's really dumb
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PaciFIST run: 4K without preforming an offensive action (remember grabs don't count towards that)
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Sounds to me like it's the Survivor that is broken
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Slay the spire
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516677#Comment_516677
Please don't call me sweetie. We all know you do so in a condescending manner and it is not intended as a term of endearment. I personally don't appreciate it especially when I didn't say anything to deserve that from you.
I didn't say anything about time wasted, just that you spend more time on the forums than the majority of people you complain about.
If anyone should stop complaining it should probably be you. Complaining about other people complaining is probably a step lower than complaining about the game.
hold it! You're complaining about other people complaining about other people complaining! That makes you even lower than them!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516583#Comment_516583
Ah well the wording is a little confusing.
In that case great idea, I like it.
@Blueberry any ideas on how to word it better?
And where did 18 seconds come from?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516496#Comment_516496
In the absolute best case scenario you are only getting 18 extra seconds and that isn't affecting if there's just 1 survivor left. That's pretty bad, especially given the more likely scenario is much less.
@Blueberry you must have misread the perk.
If you get 4 tokens then it's 12 seconds PER SURVIVOR.
And it's an instantaneous change so killing survivors once the endgame starts doesn't reduce the timer.
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@Blueberry how is the remember me change a nerf? The numbers are higher in every situation except a 1v1.
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@Milo done <3
@Ihatelife type. I fixed it
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No?
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@miaasma said:
nurse is nonsense but anyone complaining about the changes to legion has a banana boat understanding of this game so i guess that contextualizes the rest of the thread
Banana boat sounds delicious so I'ma assume that means your claiming anyone complaining about the legion changes is a genius in your eyes.
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What does the screenshot have to do with the post?
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I don't actually have Legion. But I have a build suggestion in mind anyways:
Ruin, Thanataphobia, Monitor and Abuse, Save the best for last
Ruin to slow the game down (just a little bit)
Thanataphobia because of the no heal meta, Legion can Injure really quickly.
Monitor because having a lower terror radius when approaching an injured survivor helps a LOT with getting downs, plus it helps for using FF for tracking, AND it means once you leave a chase Deep wounds will go down sooner
STBFL because he can get a lot of stacks very quickly meaning you can very easily get downs without even needing your power after not too long.
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What does Breakdown have to do with SWF?
None of it's effects are more effective with a SWF team. The aura reading is for both players and the hook breaking is a mechanical effect that doesn't require coordination in order to be useful.
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@Cejar13321 said:
Camping is a strat that will work for you or against you, if survivor camps the hook for save which happens hella often with toxic weirdos, the killer will stay near hook too.
But if you stop you either get a free win or the killer will stop camping that person
Camping is also legit tactic to get second chance to win the game if u are unlucky or simply fail some chases. Survivors already have a TON of second chances with perks, but with camping being punishable, after getting looped for some time by someone who actually did their homework you pretty much lose. Looping isnt hard. Hiding isnt hard. You just need to know some numbers to run all killers around for a whole game. Killers are underpowered and this isnt a competetive game.
Solo survivor here.
@Cejar13321 Dead by daylight is absolutely a competitive game.
It may not be an esport or whatever. But it is still competitive. ANY game where at least 2 players have mutually exclusive win conditions is competitive. That includes Mario Party, that includes SSBM and it absolutely includes Dead by daylight.
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@Milo can you explain what you meant by your lightweight post?
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Calling the devs survivor mains is an insult to survivor mains
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@George_Soros said:
If timer goes faster, killer has a more difficult time to hook you. Better to decrease the bleedout timer, if conditions are met (last survivor, EGC on).
I mean if you get sacrificed by the EGC it count's as a normal sacrifice, So you aren't punished.
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@HURRI_KAIN said:
SC has already been nerfed, heavily. all healing has been. If they gut SC, they will have to weaken all killers as well to rebalance. Are you really asking BE to nerf all killers?
While gutting SC is indeed not the right answer (at most just give it a small nerf) I honestly don't think that a nerf to all killers would be the result of this.
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I just bring a med-kit
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@Milo said:
@NuclearBurrito What about my other points?
Sure:
Leader - Botany and Wake up both have advantages that Leader doesn't have. Specifically they both work while alone, Botany is 5% faster, and Wake up has the aura reading stuff
Sabo - If a perk only has a single niche purpose then it needs to fulfill that purpose really well. Even with this buff it would still be niche and likely underused
Left behind - Oops. I'll fix that in a sec.
Technician - I mean I COULD do that. But it's kinda arbitrary which stat is scaled. And I didn't forget the 8 meters. I just didn't mention it because it didn't need fixing
Wake Up - That would be nice. Not sure if it is needed if it get's a numbers buff, but I wouldn't be against it.
Pharmacy - The numbers buff wasn't really the main point of the change anyways. Yes giving the emergency med-kit a charge addon would help, but I feel like making it a rangers med-kit would be important in order to make it compete better with just bringing a medkit yourself.
Open-Handed - I mean I guess. Don't run those perks together if you think it's going to be an issue then. There is a benefit to getting a longer range on those perks so it isn't strictly a nerf.
Tenacity - Unbreakable has another really good effect. Tenacity's current effect is borderline useless. Don't forget that 9/10 times the Killer just doesn't pick you up. Even with both perks it's an 85% speed increase, or in other words 92.5% of the normal healing speed. Even with 2 different perks speeding up your recovery speed it's STILL slower than someone else healing you. That means you need 17.2 seconds to recover
Autodidact - The perk doesn't slow healing right now. Instead it makes it so that skill checks give a guaranteed penalty by default. That is NEGATIVE UTILITY.
This is now happening - Should I make it 15% then? Or should I remove the vaulting thing and make it 25%?
Slippery Meat - Yes and yes.
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@NMCKE said:
Prove Thyself: 20% won't solve the problem because 3 survivors will equal a 30% penalty.
Prove Thyself:
Whenever you're repairing a generator with a survivor, you and the other survivors will remain at your normal repair speed.
@NMCKE the 20% increase is per survivor. So with 3 survivors it's 40% faster.
Keep in mind that's 40% faster than 70% efficiency. And is thus slower than 110% efficiency
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@Catbucket said:
Those of you pointing out that "4k is objectively the wincon" should probably also rethink that, because that is not meant to be the case.
Yeah its 4 sacrifices specifically.
Moris, bleedouts ect don't count.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514642#Comment_514642
Since when does Leader not stack? Is that new?
And I'm aware you need to run two perks but your version of Leader would be a pretty powerful time saver I'd absolutely take. Wake Up! is sort of sacrificing a slot for a perk you may never use but now with the EGC you're much more likely to get use out of it so it's not that big a sacrifice anymore.
Leader didn't stack since it's numbers buff. Anyways if you have 2 people then you could already get the effect by just having the other person run wake up and open the door. Since I didn't change the numbers or anything.
And my point is that if you are running 2 perks to make a single fairly quick action fast, then it better make it REALLY fast.
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And as for the boil over thing...
If you are running 4 perks just to make it more likely to escape the Killers grasp then it BETTER be good at doing that.
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"Prove Thyself: Yeah it only negates the penalty because it is supposed to (although after 3 people it gets negative again so maybe 15% would be okayish)"
Not even. Since 2 people working on the same gen with be at 99% efficiency instead of 100%. This is 0.8 seconds less efficient than working alone. In any case you need to remember just how inefficient this perk actually is compared to other perks at getting gens done. Resilience 9% increase can be done for the whole game if you wanted to, is 109% efficient, and doesn't require someone else. Even with my buff prove thyself is still less efficient than resilience.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
@NuclearBurrito I think you are not gauging the core of this game and the player base very well. This is a casual "party" game. It is not a pro-style hardcore competitive game. It is too imbalance in several aspects to be that.
Most who play are doing so just to have fun. Casual games are not always defined by winning and losing. They are measured by how much fun they are. Which is why the player base has been so stagnant. The game is pushing players away in droves.
Just because the game isn't hardcore doesn't mean it isn't competitive.
My line of reasoning applies to Mario kart and Wii tennis too. Both of those games still have just as much of a fixed win condition as football does.
Or tag, or Hearts, or solitaire ect.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Definitely some really good ideas in there. The only problem I really have is too many of them affect opening exit gates. A duo who both have Leader could reduce it to 10 seconds. Add in Wake Up! and it's down to 5. I just think that's too strong.
@brokedownpalace Leader doesn't stack. So you would only reduce it down to 10 seconds like that.
And you'd be running 2 perk slots to accomplish that
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514148#Comment_514148
The problem with using the screen shots from the game is people play for different reasons. Some people think the only way to win is escape or 4k. Which is fine. Others consider it a win if they set a particular goal for a game and achieve it. So long as it's not something that breaks the rules, or deliberately ruins somebody else's game, there is no right or wrong answer to what is a win in a game like this.
Just because someone isn't trying to win doesn't mean that they have won when they succeed. At best you could say that they won at some other game that is not dead by daylight despite having identical mechanics. Since the wincon is so integral to how a game plays out, making up a new wincon and playing with that new one in mind is effectively the same as just playing a different game entirely.
That's why in a game like Throne of lies, 2 different roles with comparable ability's but different win conditions require entirely different balance standards, strategies, counter play, specific interaction outcomes, ect. even despite being mechanically identical to each other in terms of their core ability.
The point is that the question of "What is the win condition for dead by daylight" is NOT a subjective question.
Even when the game has no stated win condition like minecraft for example the question is still objective. In fact I already said the answer: None.
For minecraft the answer is "you can't win"
For League of legands the answer is "Destroy the enemy base
For Counter Strike it's "eliminate the enemy team or detonate/disarm the bomb/run out the time"
For magic the gathering it's "reduce your opponents life total to 0"
No matter what you personally are trying to accomplish when you play these games, your win condition remains constant. You might succeed at a goal, but that doesn't mean you succeeded at THE Goal.
You might be able to argue that the wincon is ambiguous or even non-existent. But it still ISN'T subjective. Because that's just not how win conditions work, and trying to apply any line of reasoning that says otherwise to any game which is more clear about it shows this.
If my own personal objective in a game of overwatch is to eliminate the most roadsigns in a payload match while I'm on defence and I do so, but then the payload gets to the end, then did I win the payload match? No of course not. I may have won at the "roadsign hunting contest" but that's just irrelevant, no one else was competing for it and it would be ridiculous to try and make changes to the game because someone was far better than someone else at it.
So if I'm a survivor and I'm trying to win in a trial of dead by daylight, that means I must escape. If I do not escape then whatever it is I won at was NOT dead by daylight.
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And thus I have bumped the comment which has spent the longest amount of time being dead.
Funnily enough this is still an issue right now
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@DoubleTap said:
@NuclearBurrito Although occasionally that does work it just doesn't work consistently enough to be a reliable skill based tactic. You have to time the grab precisely on a non consistent system (which isn't possible) and is just as much based on timing as it is on luck.
It's a 2 second window and you have nothing better to do.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@NuclearBurrito I can't think of a situation where it would make sense for a surv to trap another surv in a corner (that was what the op was talking about).
Forcing another surv to tank a hit for you while being in a chase is something different. ^^
Yeah yeah. I'm just poking fun at your word choice <3
But yeah I've had a game where my best option was to farm a survivor on the hook, and then get another survivor who was busy doing gens hooked and then farmed, and then I could go into the hatch.
Basically on 3 separate occasions I was caught out with a good amount of distance but not enough safe spots nearby while on death hook. So I just used another survivor as a distraction and got back into hiding all 3 times. The other survivors were so mad at me, but I won and they didn't suckers ;)
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@DoubleTap said:
Here's a scenario for you:
Survivors are hook camping and go for an unsafe unhook by an open exit gate
There where no other hooks further away, if you had tried to get to another hook they'd have escaped, and dropping them as far as you can away from the gate isn't an option because they can crawl out within the EGC timer and trying to pick them up again once they near the exit results in them escaping anyway.
You don't have Noed because your not a scrublord and wouldn't have done anything anyway because of the above reason.
All other Survivors have full health and those that aren't trying to body block the unsafe unhook are waiting by the exit gate mere feet away.
You have one, JUST ONE option and that is to tunnel the Survivor who just got rescued and HOPE they don't have MoM or DH and that the rescuer didn't have Borrowed Time.
You down the Survivor, you can't leave them to bleed out for 60 seconds to safely pick them up or they'll escape.
In this scenario where your only option is to tunnel, upon which finding out you never had any option in the first place because of DS? Bad game design. Every situation should always be counterable with the right application of tactical nuance.
@DoubleTap Solution: Wait for them to commit to an unhook in front of you and then grab the unhooker. You can then immediately drop them, if another survivor goes for the save and gets it then you can just hook the survivor you just grabbed.
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The absolute soonest it should alert you is the first FAILED skillcheck
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@NoShinyPony said:
If it's done for a longer amount of time, I'm pretty sure it's still bannable.
(The devs changed collision on the basement stairs so that survivors couldn't get trapped for several minutes, despite the existence of the EGC. So it's clear the devs consider this griefing.)
Also: If killers bodyblock you, there are sometimes tactical reasons. A survivor has no tactical reason to block another surv, so that's always trolling.
@NoShinyPony Well TECHNICALLY there IS tactical reasons to bodyblock another survivor. However all of the ones I can think off wouldn't qualify as hostage holding anyways and are more along the lines of "I don't have to outrun the Killer, I just have to outrun you"
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514009#Comment_514009
That isn’t the point of the thread. We know the official rule but we’re talking about victory in our eyes.
Also. I don't think everyone DOES know the official rule. Since when I made a thread about it I had a LOT of people trying to tell me that the screenshots I posted DESPITE BEING DIRECTLY FROM THE GAME ITSELF were wrong.
Hell even @weirdkid5 just now said that the game considers piping the wincon, despite the screenshots that show otherwise.
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@Catbucket said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514061#Comment_514061
Just stop feeding the troll, maybe he'll go away if we stop responding to him, and we can go back to having a fun, lighthearted discussion.
I'm not a troll. I don't do trolling. When I say something that isn't an obvious joke it's because I mean it.
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@preetygoodforumsofar said:
With a 20% increase it will make each generator take 37 seconds while working with someone else.
no thx
I am aware, I did the math.
@preetygoodforumsofar question. Why would I run the perk if it didn't let me be more efficient? Because anything equal to or greater than a 40 second generator isn't worth bringing a perk for, and 15% is barely over 1 second faster.
Saving 3 seconds per gen (6 seconds of extra efficiency per gen) is the bare minimum a perk designed to do gens faster should do.
In comparison Resilience saves 7 seconds per gen AND speeds up a bunch of other stuff such as healing and vaulting. Toolboxes save a minimum of 11 seconds (although not for every gen) and the current prove thy self saves.... negative 4 (8 effective) seconds per gen.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514009#Comment_514009
That isn’t the point of the thread. We know the official rule but we’re talking about victory in our eyes.
If there is ever a disconnect between the 2 then that means we have a problem, since wincons dictate how the rest of the game is designed.
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@MysticAdvisor said:
Ok that’s good for me just know that you’ll have to hook them 4-5 times instead of 3 if we reduce hook damage
i guess more blood points
More importantly it means that if you hook someone on low HP you aren't screwed out of some damage
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@MysticAdvisor said:
perhaps what do the killer mains think?
I'm a killer main so there you go
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Actually could the hooks be a flat 30 hp reduction so that the HP damage actually matters in a normal game?
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Actually if you're going to do this then make sure no mither REGENS HP while injured instead of losing HP (so +0.5 hp per second)
And that either resilience, this is not happening, or both slow down bleedout.
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Suddenly, Legion and Plague make a lot of sense, no mither is a useful perk, slugging is more viable, camping is even less viable than it already was, there is a reason not to tunnel ect.
Btw it might be good to make it so that:
Injured = -0.5 hp per second
Downed = -0.75 hp per second
Healthy = +0.25 hp per second
Since keeping survivors injured for long is hard and it takes awhile to deplete a survivors health bar making the system mostly pointless outside of very few situations.