Nobsyde
Nobsyde
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OT - people should stop treating Trusted users like if they were somehow in BHVR's payroll. It's obvious they are just very passionate players which most of the time (but actually, not always) happen to side with BHVR's choices. @Fibijean in particular is a very empathic person, resulting in her (you are a lady, right?) appearing as a BHVR advocate, but that's just because we are very vocal against some of BHVR's decisions - counter arguments should be encouraged, not met with acrimony.
...this being said, I doubt as well that the change from the leaked patch notes to the actual ones is dependent from our feedback, but I don't think either it's because BHVR is trying to undermine leaks credibility.
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There are plenty of reasons why to start playing DbD, problem is that my suggestion to this hypothetical new player would be to start as survivor, but right now queue time is just too long.
I would tell him: wait a couple of weeks, I'll tell you if Devs patch out the match making. If they don't / can't.. don't bother for now.
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So I play for fun... I don't play in the high ranks as killer, cause that [BAD WORD] gets boring really fast. Some people enjoy playing in the high ranks as killer. The changing of ruin doesn't change that.
No, that's not the reason why you don't play in the high ranks as killer.
You don't play in the high ranks because you don't understand the game enough from the killer point of view, making you absolutely incapable to apply the proper map pressure, understand when to chase and when to not do it, when to respect pallets and so on and so forth.
But guess what? Ruin drama stems from high rank killers, so you can try your hardest to mock this or that side, but understand that your thoughts don't have a lot of meaning due to your self proclaimed incompetence as a killer.
P.S. I know that you are only trolling by the way, my reply is more towards those (real) players who may share your ideas, even if yours were fake in the first place.
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...I suggest you open a topic named "which perks are you using?", since this is the third thread with the same concept for three different perks :P, it would be less messy.
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@TheNHK32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987525#Comment_987525
Try swapping nurses for BBQ legion is a mobile killer who can once again capitalize on ez 1 shot downs. And its a snowball perk.
I also found you can corrall survivors into deadzones in FF
Yeah, I will definitely try it, I just want to have a fair amount of games with Nurse to compare the outcomes 👍
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@TheNHK32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987525#Comment_987525
A fellow legion main, let me give you constructive criticism
Yes legion can preserve stbfl stacks easily now, but it is hardly time efficent to run it, survivors will likely be a 1 shot a shorter weapon cleaning anim is not a big deal, because your legion they wont be grouped up/they never attempt to bodyblock, rendering stbfl useless, BT does nothing to legion, nobody runs MoM, etc etc, i cant see a good place for STBFL in legion now. I think IAE would be the better pick to capitalize on the 1 shot down
Monitor is questionable however i just got it on them so i cant comment, a 24m/40m terror radius isnt very beneficial when you can swap it out with a chase cutter or a slowdown. Iri button and sketchbook already can bandaid the easy FF stab issue
Let me reccomdend you something instead blood echo/pop/bbq, dying light, ruin, thanat, broken pin, stolen sketch
And another would be bbq, pop, ruin, discordance/or IAE paired with cooldown addons
Big brain legion post
I appreciate the criticism, but I have to say I found my build to perfectly match my play style.
Because yeah, that's also an important thing to consider: no build works by itself, but the way I play it I find myself having a lot of opportunities to capitalise on my STBFL tokens. For example, you say that BT does nothing against Legion, but I have to disagree: it does nothing if you use FF to hit the unhooked survivor, but if you do that:
- you won't be able to exchange the unhooked survivor with its saviour
- after your hits, you'll still have your 4 seconds stun (that means: the survivor reaches a good looping position) + a possible DS to face as well
- every time you enter your FF there's a chance you will be missing your attack, and that would be a huge detriment!
In other words yeah, sometimes using FF during a unhook is the correct play (e.g. you are late to the save / the hooked survivor was the obsession), but most of the time I prefer to gain a token - it's a guaranteed down at that point, if I'm really stacked up it's even a down without the save.
Regarding your other suggestions like BE/dyling light / thana, there are things to say, but before approaching those - did you read my (looooooooong) post? Some answers are already there.
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@VincentRedfield said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/345/S0Y70OD1LESK.jpg
The real reason killers mains despise SWF or adrenaline or toolboxes so much is that they loathe the game being balanced around 2 kills and 2 escapes per game. (Ideally.)
They ignore that just as 3-4 escapes per game balance would screw over killer players and be messed up, balancing for 3-4 kills per game would screw over survivor players and be messed up.
Survivor players aren't bots here for your pleasure. Maybe the ruin rework will sway the stats too much towards escapes and need to go who knows. But yes, the game needs to be balanced so survivor players have a decent 50/50 shot at escaping as well. #survivorsarepeopletoo
no, killers want a chance to 3-4k even against very good survivors, or, in other words, that when everything else is the same (skill in looping and countering it, game sense, positioning..) no side is artificially aided.
As it stands right now, a good swf with com can have:
- huge maps
- synergising items and perks (e.g. toolboxes with a couple of prove thyself / medkits and borrowed time / flashlights and unbreakable / rainbow maps and key...)
- favourable rng with connected tiles / pallets
- ...Object of Obsession
I don't want to remove the casualness from DbD altogether, I think that's part of the fun, but I don't want either that if a survivor never mess up the Killer just don't stand a chance (...even when the killer don't mess up as well). The kill rate is so high and in favour of killers simply because there are not that many good swf with com and the matchmaking doesn't work - meaning that a good killer for every competent team will face at least 3 or 4 teams that aren't at its level.
That's also one of the reason why when @Peanits says that if a killer can't win without Ruin he will derank and play at a more comfortable level one becomes frustrated: if I'm rank 1 or rank 6 it won't change a thing, I'll face exactly the same survivors, with the same proportion. There's a inherent lack of meritocracy in the current ranking system first, and match making secondly (but arguably most importantly).
EDIT: and let's not forget the currently messed up audio. From what I know Devs never acknowledged that the audio is not working properly, so I really don't know what to make up from that.
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@TheNHK32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987440#Comment_987440
I think you forgot FF stabs do not count as basic attacks anymore, making STBFL (and sloppy) completely useless
No I didn't forget it at all, in fact that's exactly the reason why STBFL is even stronger now on Legion.
If you want to know what I mean, you can read this post I made some time ago. Note that since Ruin is now gone I'm currently using Nurse Calling instead, I still don't know if that's the right choice but for now it seems ok enough.
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@Mellow7 said:
It's only good on clown and demo, no one else can utilize it as well as them, even then the perk is just mediocre at best you can run better things to capitalize off. If it were the old STBFL then it'd be worth on every killer.
nah.
Legion is one of the best users of STBFL along with probably Demo, and a Legion with the perk and one with without are two totally different beasts.
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Yeah, I've noticed it as well - and to be fair I dumped Ruin from my build likewise.
And whatever, yeah I still 3k and 4k exactly as I thought I would, but guess what:
- I end up slugging much more
- Everyone gets far less BP due to slugging / camping
- Huge maps are a lottery: either the first direction I pick ends up with me finding a couple of survivors, and I stand a chance, or I pick the wrong way, and the game basically starts with only 3 generators to go.
I agree that Ruin was a bad perk, but everything I always stated remains: early game needs to be slowed down.
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@Mew said:
been playing rank 1 without ruin for forever, wanna know the outcome?
still 4k, its rlly not that hard
@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/985527#Comment_985527
Hey, fellow red rank killer, I consistently get 4k without ruin with the same killer all the time too!
Sometimes I think, why are there other killers.
What killer are you using?
Do you 4K even against good swf teams?
every map?
care to share a link to your streams?
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@AAAAA said:
I like this idea a lot! The only problem is that it disproportionately hurts solo survivors.
well, solo survs could run Bond if they really struggle in finding other survivors, which is a very useful perk anyway (it's not like running Calm Spirit only to counter Doctor, that's what I mean :P). Also it would also be an indirect buff to Nancy's Better Together.
If even Bond wouldn't be enough because survivors are very far away, that would be ok as well: yes, you suffer a big penalty, but you are still doing an important job that will improve the team position, eventually.
On the plus side, swf now can split up very efficiently, while solos can try to do it, but they have no guarantee that other players will stick to the (silent) plan. In a certain way, the perk would even this disparity out more than increasing it, I think.
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Playstation 4 Dedicated Server first impressions
Location: Italy
Rank: 1 (surv and killer)
Ping: 50-65 ms (much lower than basically every game I had with p2p connection)
Match Making: the time to find a match seems the same overall, I saw some very low ranks playing with / against me in some matches but it could just be a chance and not related to dedicated servers.
Issues: from the survivor POV I'm getting hit during certain jukes when I shouldn't have been, while as a killer we have the fake grabs and, sometimes, a delay before being able to move after hitting a generator. I tried only Legion and Spirit so far though.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Any thoughts on this
I'm specificly curious if more people find the ruin+surveilance combo a bit overrated
I think it very much depends on the killer. From Legion to Legion, I strongly suggest to not use it: you wouldn't have the time to patrol all the generators, and in any case sooner or later you'll see Ruin cleansed, leaving you with simply Surveillance, which is an interesting perk in itself, but not worth a slot for Legion.
For killers with very high mobility like Billy, Spirit, Nurse, maybe Freddy.. yeah, it can be interesting, but the problem remains: once Ruin goes, you have one perk that's not that relevant, meaning you're playing with just 2 perks and a half. I saw someone trying Thrill + Ruin + Surveillance but come on, three perks just to have a chance to have the build keep on working?
Build that will work only against solo survivors / low rank swf anyway, since competent teams will just coordinate their actions and cleanse the totems in no time, but against solo survs and low rank swf you don't need something so overkill so... yeah, there's that.
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@princeharlequin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/980098#Comment_980098
Soooooooooooooooooo will we being seeing map size reduction or literally anything to compensate on the killers side?
Naturally. But if that's the case, those who can't play at a high level will derank to a place where they're more comfortable. That is the point of a ranking system, after all.
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I would ask the same to yourself? Competent swf run about constantly. They hardly walk unless it's beneficial as it wastes time. I wasn't referring to them being bad players but they run about bobbing there heads back and forth. Dont tsake it too literally as I am saying they are bad. They just dont care about being seen. Good players want to be chased as they are confident. It also enables the rest to do what is needed even more so in an swf.
I would gladly answer you: yes, I do play a lot as killer, rank 1 and at the time I'm focusing on Legion - again, my question was not provocative and you still haven't answered to be fair :P. I'm also a rank 1 solo survivor, but queue times are too high right now so I'm playing it less and less (plus: it's honestly too easy, also because a lot of the times I face killers which are much lower ranked than me and the rest of the team).
Now back to the point: so... you agree on me that those chickens don't care to be seen because it enables the rest to do what is needed, which is exactly what I said: they are a decoy, if you follow those clicky-clicky survivors, you won't have a good time, most of the time.
Meaning: yeah, I use Ruin to buy me some time and find someone, but it was implicit that this someone shouldn't be a clicky-clicky survivor that's just going to try to loop me on the opposite side from where everyone else is :P. Also remember that if I'm chasing someone, in order to the totem to be cleansed only two survivors can be working on a generator, so yeah, for 30 seconds I have not only Ruin's effect (which at high ranks is not that relevant anyway), but most importantly 50% less survivors working on generator(s).
Devs don't like it, because, between other reasons, it's too easy for a killer to just gain this advantage without efforts, but what they fail to realise is that
- after those 30 seconds, we have only 3 perks instead of 4.
- we wouldn't run Ruin anyway, if there was a real alternative (or if it wasn't needed, because it's not fun to use, at all!).
- BUT THE HATCH AND THE KEYS AND ADRENALINE AND DS...! (I'm joking)
In any case, I'm not saying that now killers are screwed, I'm confident enough to say that I will still be able to win the majority of my games. Problem is that playing killer is already stressful, and it will become even more so, especially against very good teams. You could say that if I / we find it so stressful, we could just play survivor but.. that's exactly the problem: queue times.
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What they wrote like most cases will be a reason but not how they came to the reason. Never take things at face value. What it implies is it was working too well. It all depends on how one wishes to see it.
They also never said people cared about the gatekeeper emblem again its what you wish to see. How it reads for myself is it was working too well for it ergo making it too easy to get.
First: the post says what are the reasons for the change. Of course they have debated about other things, but thinking that there is some esoteric and imponderable, but still very relevant, thought behind Ruin change other than (1) it sucked for noobs, (2) it was a brainless mainstay of every high rank build, (3) inconsistency of skill checks is naive at best, malicious at worst. If Devs say that this was their reasoning, I believe them, I don't do second guessing on what they have (not) said.
Second: you are right, they didn't explicitly said that players care about the Gatekeeper Emblem, but that's not what I said either. In fact, I said that their actions go in that direction (that is: change Gatekeeper Emblem system as if that is what needs to be addressed after Ruin is gone - if players don't care about emblems, then why the change? I'm asking you.), but I seriously doubt that they don't know what we really do care about (that is: slow the Early game). In fact they stated it themselves, but this (the early game gen rush) has not been addressed, and that's why we are all upset.
I never said they do affect early game. They are slowdown perks and its seems clear the devs dedided they dont want something to possibly stall the game for too long without at least doing something for it to happen.
It is clear, I agree with you. In fact, I'm not against Ruin changes per se.
Hell, I hate using Ruin!
I'm against the change without addressing early game gen rushing at high ranks at the same time. I know, you say that they do things one step at a time, and I'm telling you this is infuriating, because (1) we don't know if this step will ever happen and (2) even if it happens, we don't know in which time frame. Freddy, Legion, Dedicated Server, DC bans, sound bugs, humongous maps should have taught us something by now, don't you agree?
If you truly only need to find someone within 20-30s I don't see how ruin is important. It's very easy to find players at red ranks within that time frame as most always run about like headless chickens.
Again I'm asking you, and that's not a provocative question in any way: do you play as killer? Competent swf teams don't run about like headless chickens, if they do that they have a purpose (for example, the chicken is in fact a single scout for Ruin and for the killer, good at looping, that will get you out of the way while communicating to the others what to do). You can't chase those scouts, or you will simply lose. You have to find someone that is doing (better: is going to do) something useful objective wise, and not get distracted. Of course there are high ranks teams which just mess around, but those were not the problem anyway - Ruin was not used for them in the first place.
You talk about high ranks like if they were in fact the ones easier to beat, which I don't know, maybe your region is easier to play on :P?
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977495#Comment_977495
I'm not saying it's true for all but it is for some.
We never compare meta in one game to another much like balancing as they are all different. The examples you chose though simply state why meta's are changed and why it's needed if theyvare too strong.
Why the devs did this we don't actually know. It's speculation to think its just becasue it was used by 80%. I would be there are many reasons for the change like why it is being used as much, the impact on the games itself, how long it lasts and how long gens took etc.
To say there is no design plan is not true. Every change so far has been to try and make something less obnoxious along with balancing. It's unfortunate there is one example of Legion who has been in the cross fire with some needed changes due to new perks effecting them the most.
There is surge, surveillance, pgtw, corrupt. There are tracking and chase perks. We adapt and stop relying on just one thing to do the job for us and try to do better without it. We learn better how to chase and mind game, take the time to learn how to run tiles. There are many things good player do over bad one but what better ones do is see what they did wrong.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977543#Comment_977543
Which is what they have said they are doing. Maybe ruin was making this harder to see the whole picture.
Saying 80% doesn't matter for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Since only a set amount of killers are said to be viable and only used at high ranks it means it was then primarily used in theory on the ones who don't need it at all.
I don't know if you read the Dev Blog post, but what I'm saying is not a mere speculation, it's exactly what they stated:
We also looked carefully to see how it functions as part of a Killer's loadout. Beyond the obvious desire to slow down generator repair, Hex: Ruin functions as one of the very few perks effective as slowing generator repair in the first couple of minutes of the Trial. This is important to Killers' rankings because the Gatekeeper Emblem highly rewards keeping as many of the 7 generators incomplete as they can for as long as possible.
In other words, that's their answer to the question Why are players using it.
And you know what? That's correct! I don't care if someone somewhere uses Ruin for other reasons: this is the real and most useful reason to use it.
The problem is that they apparently think that the reason why we want to slow the early game is for the Gatekeeper Emblem point system, which is like saying that people hate mosquitos because they don't like the smell of anti-mosquitos sprays. But again, I'm sure that they know why we want to slow the early game, it's just that they still haven't come up with an elegant solution to that.
Let them test it out, we'll think about it. That's their approach, right now.
On another note, all the perks that you mentioned, aside for Corrupt (which I already addressed anyway), have nothing to do with the early game, and I already said that I don't really care if Ruin gets cleansed in 20-30 seconds, I just need to at least see a survivor before the first generator pops, so I don't really understand what is your point in saying that we'll, basically, git gud at chasing without Ruin now. Honest question: do you play killer?
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@Joekillu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/977403#Comment_977403
My dude I didn't say it's "always " needed. High and high med definitely not. However if your playing a low or slow killer on couple maps that are very large its almost a must. If they would address those maps first. There probably wouldn't have been sooo much hate. Also from what I've seen with new ruin to make it some what affective you need surveillance. If you are not on a average size map.imo. Saying 20% dont. Really it is not really a valid point because the 20% isn't saying who there using, what the load out is ect..that is just saying 20% of all matches in red its not used. The 1 in 5 doesn't mean they don't on every killer that's ridiculous. I'm sure there are people that dont on any that's cool. As far as my comment 80% of all matches not killers in red. I was just poking the bear a bit. Take a breath an chill...its a game.
plus for all we know those 20% of games without Ruin could easily be Nurse / Spirit / Billy / Iri Head huntress / whatever killer with crutch add-ons / ...4 survivors escaping :P
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Meta perks are meta for a reason. Not becasue they fix issues but they make players feel stronger or better than they may be.
It's a common issue with lots of PvP games and why anything meta needs eventually looked at as to why its used and this is what has been happening over the last year.
That's not entirely true; yeah, all meta perks make you stronger, but not everything that makes you stronger increases your skill artificially. Plus, the game has objectives issues, like maps that are so big that you simply can't reach the furthest generator before it being repaired, if survivors are on it. Ruin addressed this issue.
In fact, I don't care at all if Ruin is cleansed in the first 20-30 seconds of the game - I just need to find someone before one generator is completed, that's it.
Usually in PvP games if a perk / a unit / an ability is overused they ask themselves two basic questions:
- why our players are using it?
- is it giving an unfair advantage over other players?
Take a fighting game: if a character is used a lot, but in tournaments players who win are not using it, the answer is that the character is more fun or easier to use than others, but it's not overly strong. The solution would be to buff other under used (and under performing) characters, not to nerf the culprit - in fact it could very well be the case that it should be buffed as well, while trying to increase its learning curve as well.
Instead, if that character is winning a lot of tournaments, no matter the player, then the problem is that there's something wrong on its balance. In this case a nerf could be needed.
Now think about a RTS game like StarCraft - once a certain opening or build composition becomes meta, they will probably tinker some numbers or even add / delete certain abilities. Their goal, though, is not to discourage this or that play style, the goal is to facilitate new builds/tactics which can be equally viable.
What DbD devs have done is entirely different though; they saw an overused perk, they disregarded the reason why that's used (because I refuse to believe they don't understand Ruin is used for the early game, to delay the first 1-2 generators, and there's that), and they simply concentrated on why it does work. No compensation for the change, no analysis on killer frustration when Ruin was insta cleansed in the first place, nothing. Well, let's be more precise, they probably did think about this, but they obviously decided that any other change to the early game will come eventually.
There's no design plan there, other than high ranks players be unpaid beta testers.
So yeah, what should killers do if they want to delay the onset of the mid to late game? Run Corrupt Intervention? What then, 80% of high ranks matches will just have immersed survivors for 2 minutes? That seems not frustrating at all :)!
I could continue, but I think you can get the point.
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@luka2211 said:
I got a fix for you,go play CIV :D
don't frustrate me, it's illegal 💀
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@Holdonholdon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976741#Comment_976741
I disagree. Him comparing noed and ruin lol. its completely different than using ruin. Ruin is to slow down the game right? Noed isnt. Noed is endgame, I allow the survivors to do their thing and at the end of my totem isnt broken it could be to my advantage. I still have a great time I alot of fun allowing the survivors to go agaisnt me without using ruin, being active and I dont hve to sit around and rely on a ruin to slow down the game without little effort than as a killer that doesnt use ruin and gain, having to be more active AS A KILLER. (Not being a potato killer). take it how you want it. I wasnt being disrespectful. But you'll and anyone will take it how you want to. Learn to play the game without ruin, you might like it and be more active in the game.
I think you quoted the wrong person, I don't know what you are talking about.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/976257#Comment_976257
Naturally. But if that's the case, those who can't play at a high level will derank to a place where they're more comfortable. That is the point of a ranking system, after all.
you are being disrespectful to OP, by not answering in topic (that is: address why ruin is used in 80% of the games), disrespectful to @Rivyn by basically replying to him with an edulcorated "git gud", and disrespectful to everyone of us who knows how current matchmaking actually works.
Very polite, though.
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@LordRegal said:
He doesn’t have to switch stances but he can’t attack for 3 seconds after shocking, so now instead of being able to switch stances for 1 second as the shock prepares to go off and have the full 2.5 seconds where they can’t interact with things, you get 0.5 seconds to do that! Balance at its finest, obviously. /s
worse than that, survivors are affected by the shock with a delay, meaning that you can't time a shock to prevent a window/pallet vaulting, since they will immediately know if they will be able to vault or not a few moments before committing to it, thus changing pathing if necessary.
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apparently they second guessed this, it's not mentioned in the patch notes and ranks are still visible.
..for now :P
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@Archimedes5000 said:
Can anyone say if they removed ranks from end game screen?
no - and that's not mentioned in the patch note as well (as far as I know, that's the only change from the leaked notes).
Sometimes outrage works, apparently :P
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/975228#Comment_975228
Fair enough. I would say, in that case, that regardless of what Almo said, the rationale for changing the perk isn't good, because they seem to have assumed that the reason people use Ruin has to do with emblem progress and largely failed to take into account the fact that there are important strategic reasons for exerting pressure in the early game as killer.
Also, I believe that the changes made will only encourage "genrushing", and discourage healthy, altruistic gameplay on the survivor side. But I'm waiting to make my final judgement as to whether the changes themselves are a net good until I can test them out for myself.
We can finally agree 100% with each other :).
Now kiss 😘 .
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I could argue that you were doing just as much "interpreting" as I was, since I think what was said was ambiguous and therefore any reading is an interpretation, but that's not going to get us anywhere constructive, so it's best not to derail the thread with it 😊
you could argue that, of course, but I would argue that I'm not interpreting, I'm quoting:
But since you didn't argue that, I won't as well 😊 .
P.S. this discussion is merely in topic: we are talking about Ruin, what is the rationale for the change according to Devs, and why it is or it is not a good rationale.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974796#Comment_974796
As I said, while I respect your interpretation of what was said and definitely understand where you're coming from, I read the same comments and interpreted them slightly differently.
To me, it seemed like Almo was saying that the perk was designed to be strong in the late game not because they expected it to last that long necessarily, but to incentivise getting rid of it early. Part of this is from the way he compared it to Devour Hope, and how DH doesn't usually last until the late game, but when it does it's devastating.
But as long as we have different interpretations, and no Almo here to clarify what he meant, I don't see much use in debating over semantics. One way or another, we'll find out the truth for ourselves pretty soon.
Semantics are important in a place where only words matter, otherwise everyone is free to “misinterpret” the other ;).
In fact, you are “interpreting” devs words, I’m simply reading them as they are: they know ruin is not as good as before early game, and they know it shines in late game.
It’s a late game perk in the sense that it works best during that part of the trial, certainly not because it works “only” late game, as NOED would. But this is borderline nonsensical because Ruin usefulness was to slow down the early game, no one cared about the late game anyway, of those 80% players. Plus ruin would break anyway :P
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974756#Comment_974756
I'm not convinced that that's the case, because I interpreted the comments differently, but it's a very subtle distinction that I'm not confident I could properly explain. At any rate, at this point we're just debating semantics. Whether it is a late game perk or not, we will find out when we get the chance to test it for ourselves.
Fib, point is that you said that we “misinterpreted” dev words, but dev words say otherwise.
PTB can even let us see that new Ruin is so much OP that all survivors will stop playing, still: what devs said is not really up to debate; if they worded it incorrectly it’s another beast, but we can’t be in their mind.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974561#Comment_974561
Seems to me like he's just saying that the intention is for it to get more dangerous over time if the totem doesn't get cleansed, meaning that it's meant to encourage survivors to find and cleanse the totem once they realise it's there. Not that it's meant to be a late game perk, but that if survivors ignore it, it becomes more powerful over time. Presumably it still does its job before that.
But again, and this goes for @Lucama too, I could be overestimating it but we're not going to know for sure until we actually get a chance to try it. The devs have already said that they have found in their testing sessions that it's actually a lot more powerful than it sounds on paper, so the next step is to test it for ourselves and see if they're right.
I mean, they said that Ruin won’t be as impactful as before in the early game, they stated that it’s meant to build up the more the game goes on, they said that it is devastating in the late game (note the verb tense: is, instead of would be), they compared it to Devour Hope..
I understand you always want to see things with empathy, but what I wrote is not some stretched deduction, it’s not even paraphrasing, it’s exactly what they wrote.
They want it to be a late game perk - which doesn’t always work, exactly as DH.
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@Fibijean said:
That comment made about Ruin in the late game was, I think, widely misinterpreted. I think the point being made was not that the new Ruin is meant to be a late game perk, but that if it weren't a hex perk, it would be too strong in the late game. Which is true - the problem right now is it's in an awkward position where it's too weak to be a hex, but too strong not to be.
No, they really think new Ruin is a late game perk.
read @Almo‘s thread, he specifically says that it is meant to build up in power, and he even compares it to Devour Hope in funcionality.
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@Almo this change + the hiding of the ranking system + doctor nerfs (ops, changes) just say one thing: you want to increase your new player base, but don't care that much about the high ranks.
I don't know the numbers, it's very possible that only a very slight percentage of players are high ranks, and this forum is probably lurked and used by them mostly (hence the high rank bias), so economically speaking you would be right to make the game more noob friendly.
But here's the thing, new players come because old and expert players lead the way, by word of mouth, by streaming, whatever - still, it's the current player base that opens the way for the new one.
What happens when the new players become experienced? Will the game still be enjoyable? I really don't know how this Ruin will work out, maybe we are all having a big knee jerk reaction and the game will improve drastically for everyone. Maybe. But if that's not the case? Will Ruin come back? I really doubt that, so what is coming up? A slight nerf to toolboxes efficiency 3 months from now?
Because this is the frustrating part: ok, nobody wants a perk that is used in 80% of the games (..psss, that's why people asks to make it base kit by the way ;) ), but if when you ask yourself why is that? the answer is Because they want to get a good Gatekeeper Emblem! you really seem clueless. Nerf to the ground Ruin if you want, but give us something in exchange, as in every balance change of every good multiplayer game ever :).
If you don't want to slow gen speed, then increase the malus multiplier on multiple people on a single generator, make toolboxes vastly less efficient, buff base regression rate, add a malus when multiple people are working on generators even if not together... whatever, still, do something, and do it soon, not in half a year.
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I like to hear the sound of it being cleansed in the first 30 seconds.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Wait so Otz is for the Ruin changes? That's interesting. Respect to the guy for not bashing the devs like everyone else and actually presenting a unique perspective.
Otz also said that even if the changes to Ruin are potentially good, gen repair speed should be slower to balance them out.
This being said, Otz is an incredible killer, able to have good runs even without ruin, so there's that.
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oh the basement bug! the one that was patched in 48 hours! Yeah, you're right, literally unplayable :).
I guess the sound bugs though, which is something present in every game, are much less serious. gotcha.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/971208#Comment_971208
Why? the only "bad news" i can recall for killers are the nerfs to nurse, spirit and legion, on the other hand they got Demo and Oni, which are frankly amazing killers, and Ghost Face, that, while no being as good as the last 2, is still be extremely fun to play as.
Survivors have had it harder IMO, not because of nerfs or anything gameplay related , but because of game breaking bugs.
game breaking bugs like what? Perma speed boost? No sound on downed survivors? Messy sound collision which makes footsteps and generators completely silent?
No, really, what survivor bugs are you talking about :P.
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@yobuddd said:
Ruin is used in 80% of games.... 🤔
That seems high.....🤔
Like it’s a symptom of something bigger....🤔
Well if someone is coughing, give them a cough suppressant, right? Never mind the fact that it’s caused by tuberculosis!
Along those lines, make Ruin less useful so it won’t be used as much! That should bring the number back down to normal! Problem solved! No more symptom.
.......
Survivor match-making times are now consistently 15 minutes+ across all platforms......🤔
jokes on you, they already have the solution for long survivor match making: just remove rank altogether!
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We all hope that gen speed will decrease after this Ruin nerf, but this most likely won't happen, and there are two strong reason for that
- Devs already know that this is a big nerf for early game - but they decided to solve this new issue by changing the Gatekeeper emblem system.
- Doing a generator is a M1 simulator, having to press M1 for longer times is a big no-no from a playtester point of view. You can already see that with Forever Freddy nerf (which was absolutely legitimate by the way).
But honestly, what I'm more worried about is the Docs changes, especially the ones they didn't talk about in the Dev post. This will be a very divisive patch.
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@casualobserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/971004#Comment_971004
Bummer that's a shame becuase I really tried my best to look at the situation from all sides as best I could.
I've read your post, but bad manners aside @gorgono1 has got a point: you know nothing, Casualobserver Snow.
You know nothing because you don't play killer (and certainly not at mid to high ranks), and you know nothing because you play solo - which is good, don't get me wrong, but solo is a more difficult experience for anyone, and you are self admittedly a noob.
Eventually you would have figured out why Ruin is (was?) mandatory to at least try to counter genrushers. As a survivor, when you join a game without ruin you already know it's going to be an easy 3-4 gen popping - as for the last one it really depends on the map, survivors competency to avoid a 3 gen situation and killer skill (..and character).
So yeah, I don't know how impactful the new Ruin will be on game progression, but what I do know is that even if it's very fair you can have an opinion even when you are a novice, you have to understand that it will be intrinsically biased and most probably wrong, generally speaking. You can't extrapolate general assumptions right now, I mean, you don't even have Sprint Burst unlocked yet :P.
Try the socratic approach: I know that I don't know :).
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I've got a better idea: just lobby dodge every game that has at least one toolbox - killers queue times will be instantaneous anyway :).
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@DBDNeedsARecode said:
Alright guys, who’s down to raid Behavior’s studios???? Cause I’m bout to go off.
it would be worthless, all BHVR devs are survivor mains, they would just escape through the hatch tbagging you in the meanwhile.
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I like to think that the whistleblower of leaksbydaylight is a killer main Dev, which during every meeting is trying to express himself only to be shut down by the others: "We'll take your suggestion about a key rework into real consideration, thank you DreamyKillerMain. Now, on to our next point: let the Exit Gates be openable even when only 4 generators are done, but you need 25 seconds instead of 15! Everyone agrees? Good"
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@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
Its another new player change, don't want people hate messaging lower ranked players.
It wouldn't be a very smart approach to the problem though, from now on everyone will just assume the other survivors who played badly are very low rank, and let the hate messages flow even more.
So yeah, I doubt that's the reason. I'm more inclined on them deciding to open up match making to a very high range in an ultimate effort to fix match making. Hello rank 16 killers against rank 1 swf :)
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@thesuicidefox said:
Just want to say that stuff like audio changes likely wouldn't be mentioned in the designer notes. This is a bug fix, not really worth mentioning when the main talking points are design changes to the game. Wait for the actual patch notes before you complain about this.
Otherwise I kind of agree. It's a bit unsettling that the devs don't see why Ruin is so necessary especially at high ranks. It's also not that difficult to deal with. Really just continue to work on the gen even if you can't hit great skill checks. If you can hit them then Ruin isn't even an issue. Plus the fact it is a totem and will likely be gone super fast anyway.
there's no audio changes in the leaked patch notes.
However, they apparently removed player rank from the scoreboard on the tally screen, or, in other words, they finally solved every bad match making issue: you can't complain about low ranks in your game if you can't see their rank 🤯
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@Peanits said:
I'd hesitate to call the Doctor and Lery's updates nerfs, especially given you haven't had a chance to play them first. I would say give it a try once the PTB is live. That's the point of a PTB, after all.
surely we'll have to try the new doc, so let's give you all the benefit of the doubt, but if the leaked patch note is true (and usually, it is), you failed to mention that:
- after a shock shot there's a 3 seconds delay (!!!!!) before another action can be done - can you still deny a pallet vault?
- snap out of it regresses madness to tier 1 instead of tier 2 (plus what you already said: only 25% penalty on failed skill check + progress not reset on stopping snapping out)
- survivors lose madness when outside the killer Terror Radius. Because yeah, it's frustrating for survivors to be penalised if the killer "do nothing", but the opposite (killers being penalised if survivors "do nothing") is no problem at all?
plus, why in the world would you remove player rank from the scoreboard on the tally screen? Were you afraid of post game lobby dodge ;)?
It really seems to me you just want to get rid of rank altogether in the matchmaking: if we can't see (ever!) the rank of other players we can't complain that we have rank 18 team mates as rank 1, problem solved! hippy!!!
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@The_Second_Coming said:
Despite what some people will say, there is nothing in game, as a mechanic, that is toxic. No emote, item, addon, perk etc can be toxic. Anyone who says anything else is incorrect. What is and isn't toxic is also not up for debate, nor is it a matter of opinion. Toxic is an attitude. A state of mind. Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't make that thing toxic.
Period.
nickname checks out.
@UnluckySteve - if you want to know the consensus on what toxic means, the correct definition would be to actively trying to upset the killer / the other survivors, for whatever reason. This also means that "Clicking a flashlight or jumping in and out of a locker" are toxic behaviours, since they are done to upset the killer.
This being said, consensus is different than dictionary, so don't worry about it too much.
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What can I tell you is that in everything once you have to do something, you won’t enjoy it as much as when it was your decision alone.
this means that grinding can be enjoyable only if there is no time limits involved - once you buy the pass and you have 70 days or less to reach a certain goal, the grind becomes a job.
my suggestion is: don’t buy passes, don’t even look at the upcoming rewards. Just play the game as you normally do and enjoy the occasional new cosmetic you’ll receive here and there
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@OtakuFreak said:
Just played a game on Hawkins as the Demogorgon, played relatively fair & normal for the entire match - downing a survivor, not respecting pallets and breaking them with shred or try to M1 and get stunned (so more points for them), hook a survivor and use BBQ/PGT to go to another area of the map, allowing for an easy rescue.
I haven't sacrificed anybody yet and the game is in the survivors hands as the doors are powered, but I am able to down one of them and put them in the basement as the last generator is done. So, I use my portal and head towards one of the gates where I can see a survivor opening, down them, return to the basement as I get a notification that someone is there, down them and get 2 in the basement.
Proceed to do this for the majority of the endgame, finishing the last survivor and securing a 3k in the basement (downed all 3 in the basement with Save the best for last, clutch perk).
Proceed to post-game chat: ''lmao'' ''pfff'' ''play fair next time pls''
???
confronted them on it, blamed them for their altruism since they could've escaped as a 3, but decided to come back and give me 2 more kills, but they proceed to complain that I ''proxy camped'' the basement and that it wasn't fair.
So basically, I'm supposed to let my leverage go for free and ensure you guys get out? The doors are powered, its the best move to keep relatively close to the basement and ensure a kill. Or should I teleport to the other side of the map, let you 3 go and get to a post-game chat of ''gg ez baby killer''?
Playing as killer, you really do see the entitlement and hypocrisy that a lot of survivors have. They expect free saves, or to escape every game and if you do, god forbid, the best play possible in a certain situation, its not fair?
Are survivors entitled?
You probably didn't read the Survivor Rulebook (newest edition), that's on you..
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The big drawback of being a rank 1 killer is that you can't toy around with killers you don't really master and/or struggle with map pressure. For example, I like Clown, but if I play it I know that if I find a somehow good swf or a bad map I have to hope for a Brutal Killer at best - if I want to play Huntress (I'm on PS4 btw) I will struggle a lot no matter what.
That's why I end up using only the killers I know how to use well in every situation, which is a bit of a dog biting on its tail.
Also, once you are high rank, if you suck you will most probably receive a train of hate messages, which exacerbates the need to play only optimally :\ - that's the life I chose, I guess ✊