NoShinyPony
NoShinyPony
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@Suppositious said:
@NoShinyPony said:
That would majorly increase stealth play in DbD. It would also encourage survivors to not repair gens and focus on hiding.Here is the problem: That is super boring for killers and a lot of survivors. There are other video games that focus on stealth/hide & seek and they are nowhere as successful as DbD.
Yeah I bet there's someway that this could be a fair feature added to the game but I don't know how to balance something like this.
No. It can't work as long as the condition is "when the timer reaches zero, the survivors win". That condition is what encourages survivors to not do anything and just hide somewhere on the map.
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You are describing nothing new. Instant lobbies as a killer, long waiting times for survivors. Dedicated servers won't change that.
The problem is NOT matchmaking priorities. The problem is that there are not enough people interested in playing killer, especially not against SWF groups.
So the devs need to make playing the killer role more appealing. SWF needs to get nerfed/balanced so that more people want to play against these groups.
It is in the survivors' own best interest to buff killers so that they can have more matches instead of spending their time waiting for a lobby.
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That would majorly increase stealth play in DbD. It would also encourage survivors to not repair gens and focus on hiding.
Here is the problem: That is super boring for killers and a lot of survivors. There are other video games that focus on stealth/hide & seek and they are nowhere as successful as DbD.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Literally just make it a heal over time.Not useless in a chase but still gives a chance to be stopped by the killer
Not useless outside of a chase as you can do other things in the mean time
Yes, that could also work.
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If the killer camps, do gens. Easy 3 escape.
Don't bother when you lose 1 pip from time to time due to getting camped. You'll instantly rank up again, pips are gained super easy.
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@Nickenzie said:
NoShinyPony said:@Nickenzie said:
The destruction of this Hex call upon the Entity to block all remaining totems for 60/90/120 seconds
So the survivors would have to wait 120 seconds until they would be able to destroy Devour Hope? And there is nothing they could do against it?
You could be stealthy, ya know?
You don't want that. It means that survivors hide for 2 minutes. 2 minutes of nothing happening. To put it frankly, that would be more boring than slugging.
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@blue4zion said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.
I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.
Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.
The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.
@fluffybunny said:
but there are counters towards people having keysPlease tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.
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@knell
You worded that very well.
Are you by any chance playing on PS4? -
@Laakeri said:
I would still play killer, but not in weekends. I rarely find myself dodging lobbies in work days during mid day hours.You know when the heavily armed SWF groups are playing, that's for sure.
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@Master said:
Yes, you can simply DC ingame then.But on the other hand Im not even really playing right now anymore....
So you would DC until you got banned for DC'ing too much and stop playing the game?
I'm sorry to hear that you already don't play a lot anymore because this game is not fun for you.
I'd really like to see some changes so that more people would feel comfortable playing killer. -
Spirits can go back to the hook way faster than your usual 115% speed killer. Tunneling is strong on them.
But some also play Make Your Choice which can be pretty strong. Both follow the same principle: Getting back to the hook super fast so that the survivors can't escape after the unhook.
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@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Marvett said:
What's the point of using an instaheal if i can get downed in one hit anyway.
is this a bait or..?!The point is: For the current version of insta-heals, the surv doesn't need any skill. It's just a free heal up during a chase without downside and unbalanced.
If the surv lasts 30 seconds without getting hit after the insta-heal has been used on them, then it took some skill and wasn't a total freebie. If the surv doesn't last 30 seconds and gets downed due to the exposed status, then that's just the downside. I mean, survivors also use DS while there is the risk of not hitting the skill check.
Weren't you the one asking if survivor mains play killer? I suppose I have the question of if you're one of those killer mains who don't play survivor. You seem to be lacking in knowledge on how all this works. Have you played survivor?
Wrong. I'm a survivor main.
And now? You realize a discussion doesn't work by just throwing random assumptions around? On top, it's really impolite. Do you think people will still be respectful towards you when you behave like that?I have also explained multiple times why spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. I also explained why insta-heals are a freebie while a killer still needs skill to land insta-downs. I even explained it with the insta-hatchet example. Just scroll up.
If you still have questions after reading the thread, I'll explain what is unclear to you.
I apologize for triggering you, though it wasn't based on nothing and therefore not an assumption, but an observation and a question. It isn't wise to shoot down conversation, though, and my point still stands. I don't know about you, but I don't want to waste bloodpoints on another pointless item, considering how many characters I have. If the person healed someone from the ground, that's likely a free down. If the person healed themself, that's a wasted item and if they did it at a poor time, free hit. If you're really that afraid of an insta-heal, just bring franky's. It's a pretty nice counter.
You did not trigger me. I pointed out how you were impolite, wrong in your observations and wrong in your assumptions.
I did not shoot down the conversation, either. I replied to everything you mentioned in other posts already and therefore asked you to read the thread first. If you can't even put that low amount of effort into a discussion, then that's just how it is.
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@Mc_Harty said:
Better queue timesReally? For me it's the opposite. I get instant lobbies as killer and have to wait quite some time when I want to play survivor.
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@DarkFox85 said:
@BlackReaper said:
about the DS i think the same as you, i dont know why people say all the time that DS is op, is not, its only works good on the obsession and its just delay the chase for 30 sec more at best, the only problem i have with DS is when they gen rush, you cant waste your time, but if the gen rush get fixed DS is just another perk and useful some times and even you can miss it, not a big deal.
We're in a minority though. Maybe we deal with it differently? I dunno. I just don't see it as a big deal. And I'm also thinking about those poor obsessions that get themselves downed right in front of hooks. I bet they're not happy about that.
I have a theory that the "DS debate" isn't necessarily because DS is OP, but because some players just find DS REALLY annoying.
The DS debate is usually not about one single DS in a match. It's about having to deal with 2, 3 or 4 DS in one match.
Keep in mind that one DS can cost the killer 30 seconds easily. (If you get bad survivors who go down again after 10 seconds, thats good for you, but that's not the rule.)
And now multiplay these 30 seconds by 2 or 3. That's one or two gens' time. It's not about that getting DS'ed is annoying. It's about that killers simply don't have enough time to deal with it.
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@Blueberry said:
If the game was more balanced we'd see more killers.Yup. I am hoping that some people give detailed examples of what they personally find unbalanced (SWF or a certain perk or a certain item...).
I'd be interested in knowing what exactly bothers people most and what would need to change so that they play more killer.
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@Arroz said:
@NoShinyPony said:
While being in a chase, survivors can use an insta-heal to heal in front of the killer and take 1 more hit. This effect doesn't have a downside at the moment, but I think high rewards should also come with a risk.I have two different suggestions to make the insta-heal add-ons more balanced.
Version 1:
The survivor who got healed with an insta-heal suffers from the exposed status effect for 30 seconds.Version 2:
Keep the current insta-heal and give killers a similar add-on for one-time-use. Killers can activate that add-on whenever they want – the next hit will insta-down the survivor.What do you guys think?
Umm maybe better, you get 3 skillcheck for activate the instaheal -_-?
Good idea, that would also be an alternative. That way, the instaheal could not be used while being in a chase.
And that's the major problem with insta-heals: At the moment they are used during a chase/in front of the killer. -
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Marvett said:
What's the point of using an instaheal if i can get downed in one hit anyway.
is this a bait or..?!The point is: For the current version of insta-heals, the surv doesn't need any skill. It's just a free heal up during a chase without downside and unbalanced.
If the surv lasts 30 seconds without getting hit after the insta-heal has been used on them, then it took some skill and wasn't a total freebie. If the surv doesn't last 30 seconds and gets downed due to the exposed status, then that's just the downside. I mean, survivors also use DS while there is the risk of not hitting the skill check.
Weren't you the one asking if survivor mains play killer? I suppose I have the question of if you're one of those killer mains who don't play survivor. You seem to be lacking in knowledge on how all this works. Have you played survivor?
Wrong. I'm a survivor main.
And now? You realize a discussion doesn't work by just throwing random assumptions around? On top, it's really impolite. Do you think people will still be respectful towards you when you behave like that?I have also explained multiple times why spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. I also explained why insta-heals are a freebie while a killer still needs skill to land insta-downs. I even explained it with the insta-hatchet example. Just scroll up.
If you still have questions after reading the thread, I'll explain what is unclear to you.
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@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Well said!
So would you say what bothers you most when playing killer is the toxicness you're facing, the unbalance of SWF and unbalanced perks like DS?
Would you play more killer if it weren't for these things?Thank you very much for reading! Okay. A lot to talk about:
(...)
TLDR: Yes. Although I don’t care about any survivor perks, I would definately play killer more often and with less stress if toxicity/SWF weren’t issues. As far as I’m concerned, killer mains are heroes.Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response (I read everything, of course)!
It surely is an interesting topic. I'd like to see more people playing killer.So do you think most survivor mains never actually play killer? Or (if not “never”) they have only dedicated less than 10% of their playtime to the killer? And it’s a lack of understanding that drives half of the toxicity?
I have my suspicions going into that direction. There surely are a lot of unbalanced things in DbD but a lot of survivor mains don't seem to recognize how unbalanced these are.
That's why I am asking. I am honestly curious if those survivor mains usually don't play killer at all. I mean, how many survivor mains are super skilled nurse players that aren't bothered too much by keys, insta-heals, SWF groups with 3 DS?
You also have to realize that compared to how it once was, it's a lot better. They've done a lot to improve the experience for killers and while there's still more to be done, a lot of killer mains don't even seem to be aware of the improvements their side has seen.
The main point is: There is still more to be done. Yes, the devs did some adjustments. Unfortunately, it's not enough yet. And new players don't know how unbalanced it used to be. They just see the current unbalanced state and they want that to change, and rightfully so.
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Well said!
So would you say what bothers you most when playing killer is the toxicness you're facing, the unbalance of SWF and unbalanced perks like DS?
Would you play more killer if it weren't for these things?Thank you very much for reading! Okay. A lot to talk about:
(...)
TLDR: Yes. Although I don’t care about any survivor perks, I would definately play killer more often and with less stress if toxicity/SWF weren’t issues. As far as I’m concerned, killer mains are heroes.Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response (I read everything, of course)!
It surely is an interesting topic. I'd like to see more people playing killer.So do you think most survivor mains never actually play killer? Or (if not “never”) they have only dedicated less than 10% of their playtime to the killer? And it’s a lack of understanding that drives half of the toxicity?
I have my suspicions going into that direction. There surely are a lot of unbalanced things in DbD but a lot of survivor mains don't seem to recognize how unbalanced these are.
That's why I am asking. I am honestly curious if those survivor mains usually don't play killer at all. I mean, how many survivor mains are super skilled nurse players that aren't bothered too much by keys, insta-heals, SWF groups with 3 DS?
I understand DS is BS, but you have some complaining about pallets and many who don't understand camping and tunneling can ruin the experience for the other side.
There will always be people complaining when there is really nothing to complain about. And I think most killers don't camp and tunnel for fun, they do it because it is necessary to have a chance winning the game. They simply can't afford to not tunnel.
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@Bongbingbing said:
My main Gripe when playing Killer is SWF, It's pushed me away from the game if I'm honest since I don't really play survivor. It's just not a fun experience and sadly it's become the majority of my games.Something that would make me play more killer more would be if it were less Stressful, Killer takes a lot of skill and concentration and a good team can be draining to try and keep up with. This is another reason why I can only play 2 or 3 killer games before closing the game for the day.
Thanks for being honest! Are you "only" bothered by the fact that SWF is unbalanced and the survivors are often bringing very strong perks and items? I assume you sometimes feel like you don't have a fair chance in winning, correct?
Or are you bothered as well by the toxic behaviour of some SWF groups?
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@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Well said!
So would you say what bothers you most when playing killer is the toxicness you're facing, the unbalance of SWF and unbalanced perks like DS?
Would you play more killer if it weren't for these things?Thank you very much for reading! Okay. A lot to talk about:
(...)
TLDR: Yes. Although I don’t care about any survivor perks, I would definately play killer more often and with less stress if toxicity/SWF weren’t issues. As far as I’m concerned, killer mains are heroes.Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response (I read everything, of course)!
It surely is an interesting topic. I'd like to see more people playing killer.So do you think most survivor mains never actually play killer? Or (if not “never”) they have only dedicated less than 10% of their playtime to the killer? And it’s a lack of understanding that drives half of the toxicity?
I have my suspicions going into that direction. There surely are a lot of unbalanced things in DbD but a lot of survivor mains don't seem to recognize how unbalanced these are.
That's why I am asking. I am honestly curious if those survivor mains usually don't play killer at all. I mean, how many survivor mains are super skilled nurse players that aren't bothered too much by keys, insta-heals, SWF groups with 3 DS?
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Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.
Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
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@Nickenzie said:
The destruction of this Hex call upon the Entity to block all remaining totems for 60/90/120 secondsSo the survivors would have to wait 120 seconds until they would be able to destroy Devour Hope? And there is nothing they could do against it?
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@Naiad said:
@Kind_Lemon said:
The only issue with insta-heals is that they are used during chase. If there were a condition saying that pressing the secondary action button while healing does not apply in chase, the insta-heals would be fine.This makes insta-heals virtually useless. If I'm not in a chase why would I use a rare single use item to heal when I could just take a normal medkit with charge/speed add-ons or self-heal?
You can still save a lot of time with insta-heals.
My point is that the healing while being in a chase is too strong.
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@DarkGGhost said:
The truth is most survivors don't like a killer because it's way harder and demand so many skills ( main killer)It's harder because it's unbalanced. I'd like to know what exactly makes people hesitate to play more killer matches. Perhaps they don't want to deal with DS, I don't know, that's why I am asking.
Maybe there are also people who don't need any game mechanics to change and who would be fine with just more bloodpoints.
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It's a known bug, it's getting fixed.
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@OrionsFury4789 said:
Even though I call myself a survivor main the past two months I've played twice as much killer than I have survivor due to que times being what they are on consoleThats true. I also found myself playing killer when I initially wanted to play surv.
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@SIlentCetra said:
@NoShinyPony said:
You were just doing your job. It happens from time to time that a killer starts hard camping and hitting you the entire time on the hook, if you were keeping them busy for a couple of minutes. I assume you did not teabag.If you are facing toxic behaviour, don't let it get to you. Just move on to the next game.
Side note: Some killers also hard camp if you use unbalanced stuff like DS or insta-heals.
lol, I am nowhere near high enough rank to get those. I just checked my rank and I am literally rank 17. No way I could be running any of those perks or addons yet
Ah ok. That's different. In low ranks, you'll meet a lot of these killers. It will get better as you climb the ranks.
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@DarkFox85 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Well said!
So would you say what bothers you most when playing killer is the toxicness you're facing, the unbalance of SWF and unbalanced perks like DS?
Would you play more killer if it weren't for these things?Thank you very much for reading! Okay. A lot to talk about:
(...)
TLDR: Yes. Although I don’t care about any survivor perks, I would definately play killer more often and with less stress if toxicity/SWF weren’t issues. As far as I’m concerned, killer mains are heroes.Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response (I read everything, of course)!
It surely is an interesting topic. I'd like to see more people playing killer. -
I don't have anything against immersed teammates as long as they do their job. Unfortunately, these guys often only crouch around at the border of the map without doing gens, although it's even clear that they are not "in danger" (haha) at this moment.
I tend to believe that these guys are inexperienced players and they just got to the high ranks since you pip way too easy. It's not their fault for being inexperienced and it's not their fault that they are finding themselves at rank 1.
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@drunky26 said:
If 2 gens are done and 3 survivors are dead, hatch is open for the last survivor.It's kinda unfair because if the killer killed others while only 2 gens got done, he deserves the 4th kill.
A killer can slug to prevent the last guy from escaping.
The hatch is supposed to be a tool that allows a good survivor to escape even though their teammates didn't play well.
The devs and most people here in the community acknowledge that the hatch standoff is a problem. That problem did not get solved yet since there is no concept which is good enough.
If you have an idea for a hatch rework, share it with us.
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You were just doing your job. It happens from time to time that a killer starts hard camping and hitting you the entire time on the hook, if you were keeping them busy for a couple of minutes. I assume you did not teabag.
If you are facing toxic behaviour, don't let it get to you. Just move on to the next game.
Side note: Some killers also hard camp if you use unbalanced stuff like DS or insta-heals.
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If you play against good loopers: Clown is pretty nice if you use him right. His ability can shorten chase times drastically if you throw the bottles in the right places. You just need an understanding of which routes survivors have to take so that you can interrupt/slow down the loops.
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So basically, after 20 seconds the survivor gets hit, no matter how good the survivor and the killer are.
That doesn't look like fun to me, neither from survivor's nor from killer's perspective.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I'm pretty sure the 4% is a lie. Whenever it goes really downhill for the survivors and I'm having the 4k basically in the pocket -> Kobe. Sometimes even 2 Kobes. And this happens in 95% of my games.With 3 attempts at a self-unhook, the chances are a little less than 12% per survivor. If 2 or 3 survivors are attempting, chances increase to about 23%/34% percent that one of the attempts is successful. (I'm not getting my calculator to get the super exact numbers.)
That does not even include any luck offerings or perk.
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@Blueberry said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Blueberry said:
I think they are an issue. Not sure how I'd go about fixing them though. I'm not keen on OP
s ideas as they don't really make since imo.The insta heals kill so much time and pressure. As soon as ones used you pretty much have to go into heavy try hard mode to try and make up that lost time and pressure.
Yup. The insta-heals especially take a lot of the killer's time if they are used during a chase. That's why I am suggesting giving the exposed status for 30 seconds: It would solve the problem with people healing in front of the killer.
Another version for a rework: Don't make the insta-heal a complete health state but only like 50 % of the health bar. What do you think about that?
I like that idea of the best insta heal only doing 1 health state, that's a little more manageable than the double.
So you mean the Syringe should heal one health state and the Styptic Agent like 50% of one health state?
That would not change the issue that survivors are healing in front of the killer during a chase.
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@DarkFox85 said:
I do it this way for mathematical reasons, but I’d probably be a survivor main anyway because playing killer is really damn stressful. I’m always worried I’m going to get post-game abuse, or if I’m going against a fully armed SWF squad that’ll humiliate me. A 0k hurts and a 4k might earn you a lot of ill will. (...)When back as a survivor (exclusively solo) I have less salt towards camping, tunnelling or NOED or any other controversial aspects that I encounter. There’s no hard feelings from me [facecamping-Insideous-hits on the hook might get a frown or two though]. And I never use DS. I have sympathy for killers concerns more because they go through a lot of abuse and SWF really is broken. There’s no excuse, and as a commnity we need to have more mutual respect.
Well said!
So would you say what bothers you most when playing killer is the toxicness you're facing, the unbalance of SWF and unbalanced perks like DS?
Would you play more killer if it weren't for these things? -
@Blueberry said:
I think they are an issue. Not sure how I'd go about fixing them though. I'm not keen on OP
s ideas as they don't really make since imo.The insta heals kill so much time and pressure. As soon as ones used you pretty much have to go into heavy try hard mode to try and make up that lost time and pressure.
Yup. The insta-heals especially take a lot of the killer's time if they are used during a chase. That's why I am suggesting giving the exposed status for 30 seconds: It would solve the problem with people healing in front of the killer.
Another version for a rework: Don't make the insta-heal a complete health state but only like 50 % of the health bar. What do you think about that?
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@Kind_Lemon said:
The only issue with insta-heals is that they are used during chase. If there were a condition saying that pressing the secondary action button while healing does not apply in chase, the insta-heals would be fine.That's why I was suggesting giving the insta-heals the exposed status effect for 30 seconds: It would take care of the problem with insta-heals during chases.
Chases are too easily interrupted for just a few couple of seconds. If you would change it so that insta-heals can't be used during chases, it would not solve the problem, I'm afraid.
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Imho Billy is the only balanced killer in DbD.
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@tomikomPL said:
for me it is sad that people cant normaly playTunneling and camping are strategies. It doesn't matter that you don't like it.
Ironically, you are the one refusing to play a normal game when you dc.
Keep in mind: When you dc you make it super hard for your teammates and you're basically gifting the killer the win. So the killer will continue to play that way.
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@Ihatelife said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Ihatelife said:
Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.
In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?
Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.
First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.
As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.
It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.
"You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.
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That is not a slight buff, that would make her op. If she should be able to use her power at any time, she would need to have a cooldown after using her power to make it balanced again.
I prefer the current version of how her power works.
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@tehshadowman33 said:
It's kinda bullshit though, if you think about insta heal + adrenaline..... You basically make it so you'd have to hit a survivor four times to down them. That's pretty ridiculous.Adrenaline should give you the broken status effect, so you can't stack adrenaline and insta-heals.
At least Adrenaline follows the principle of risk/reward. The survivors' risk is that they still need to be alive in the endgame and for that perk to be really useful they should be in a chase or at least injured when the last gen gets done.
Of course, the combination of Adrenaline + insta-heal is super strong, but I'd only rework insta-heals.
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@Ihatelife said:
Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.
In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@NoShinyPony said:
It's not a good game design.If you are the killer, just hit the survivor. If you're the surv, do a gen.
Remember: The time that you waste on a hatch standoff could be spent on another match instead.
I'm not going to lose my win just because I got slightly impatient
If that's what feels best for you, then you do it that way.
I just think that some hatch standoffs take really long and I'd rather use this time for another match.And anyway: If you got a 3k, you won already.
If I got a 3k and the 4th escapes then that is not a win. As a killer your wincon is to eliminate the survivors, if someone escapes then you have failed to do that
I don't see it so strict when somebody escapes through the hatch. But as I said: If you prefer to win the hatch standoff even when it takes some time, then that's totally fine, of course.
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@Jack11803 said:
The downside is consuming a med kit, having less of said medkit before hand, the price of the medkit, the price of the needle, and the VERY rare status of the needle.The item and the add-on cost some bloodpoints in the bloodweb, just like every other item, add-on and offering. That's not a downside gameplay-wise. Insta-heals also are not super rare on lvl 50, you get them in pretty much every bloodweb.
And having less of the medkit when an insta-heal is equipped? Are you telling me this is even worth mentioning?
@Jack11803 said:
Couple that with having to chase teammates down and NOT be doing gens to get the heal off, and it being useless against a killers (much stronger I add) insta down, and that’s you’re price for bringing it.Your decisions to play a game are not a downside. A downside is a direct attribute of a game mechanic. I can give you examples if that would help you understand the topic better.
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@George_Soros said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@George_Soros said:
@NoShinyPony like @perotx said, the downside is the reduced charges and the fact they use up the whole medkit when they're used.It costs bloodpoints to get a new insta-heal and maybe a brown medkit if the surv doesn't get one from a chest. It's not a downside gameplay-wise.
@George_Soros said:
here's a suggestion for you: make it create a skill the moment you start healing, with similar success zone as BNP.Does hitting a skill check really require skill? That change would be better than no change at all but I don't think it's enough.
You could compare it to DS: This perk is heavily discussed because the only downside/risk is that the player could miss the skillcheck but the reward is super high. Some people say the perk is okay the way it is, others don't. DS and insta-heals aren't that different when it comes to their effect on a match. But DS at least consumes a perk slot while an insta-heal can be brought as an additional add-on.
Maybe. I get mad sometimes when a survivor slips away in endgame thanks to an instaheal, but I don't think this is one of the most pressing issues. Guess we weigh the problem differently.
Mmh... Imho, insta-heals are even more game-breaking than DS, and DS is heavily discussed.
I want to talk about unbalanced things since they are keeping people from playing killer. You probably know that lobby waiting times for survivors have been pretty bad for a while since not enough people play killer. In order to solve this problem, a lot of things need to be reworked.
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@George_Soros said:
@NoShinyPony like @perotx said, the downside is the reduced charges and the fact they use up the whole medkit when they're used.It costs bloodpoints to get a new insta-heal and maybe a brown medkit if the surv doesn't get one from a chest. It's not a downside gameplay-wise.
@George_Soros said:
here's a suggestion for you: make it create a skill the moment you start healing, with similar success zone as BNP.Does hitting a skill check really require skill? That change would be better than no change at all but I don't think it's enough.
You could compare it to DS: This perk is heavily discussed because the only downside/risk is that the player could miss the skillcheck but the reward is super high. Some people say the perk is okay the way it is, others don't. DS and insta-heals aren't that different when it comes to their effect on a match. But DS at least consumes a perk slot while an insta-heal can be brought as an additional add-on.
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Let's face it: As long as the current hook systems exists, there will always be camping and tunneling, no matter how high any incentive/reward/punishment might be.
In order to remove camping/tunneling entirely, you need to do something along the lines what the op is suggesting. Just like in shooters, the killed/hooked surv needs to spawn on another part of the map. But that doesn't really erase the tunneling, only camping. To really get rid of tunneling, you'd have to make even more drastic steps: Get rid of hook phases and let survs respawn with full health.
I also see it from a realistic perspective: The current hook system is a super-super-core-core mechanic, the devs won't change it, at least as long as DbD is successful.
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There might be a few guys who like the salt from survivors but most killers simply camp for tactical reasons.
Also nowadays, you don't see a lot of survs anymore via BBQ. So the killer must assume that everyone is already close. Protip: Don't hide your auras when a teammate gets hooked. Most killers run BBQ and your auras are incentives for them to leave the hook.