NekoTorvic
NekoTorvic
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As much as I dislike the fact that the game takes too long to get ######### done.
I would take this, and the employees of the company being well off and dignified a million times over the constant abuse, neglect, stress and insecurity a lot of Activision Blizzard's employees suffer. (Not to mention how much they prey upon their customers with much more insidious and disgusting monetization than BHVR ever has with DBD.)
Employees have much less of a choice than customers so I prefer customers getting a bit of a worse experience over employees getting #########.
Obviously the ideal is to strike a good balance where your employees are nice off and aren't being exploited and your customers are given a good service and product. But I'll take the ######### end of the stick while knowing the employees of a company are better off for it.
Especially since, as much as DBD has problems, it's acceptable enough that its fun most of the time.
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There are two many matches at high rank that are won during endgame because the killer is able to pull through. Keys working like that will still feel like getting robbed in those scenarios.
But its an agreeable enough change. The key changes are necessary too imo.
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Oh and the shack door frames! Please fix the shack door frames...I need to bounce against them to catch a survivor inside shack...sliding past them and sliding past the outside wall of shack is just the worst...T_T
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The. God. Damn. Car. Pile. At. The. Crane. In. Autohaven.
It makes me wanna grab an earthworm and rip it in half. You can literally be stuck in its geometry but not bounce against anything until your rush ends.
The trees in Yamaoka maps literally have no collision.
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Best thing you can do is either watch good Blight players or play Blight yourself and see what does and doesn't work against him.
Like most other killers it requires you to be very aware of the tiles that are safe and unsafe against him. Round loops and medium rocks, loops with narrow paths and lots of detritus are good against him.
A Blight player is ALWAYS looking at where you are running to see what he can bounce on to catch you. You should do the same so you can predict his possible routing. Always think "If I were Blight looking at myself running in this direction, where would I bounce". Good Blight players think of at least 2 options depending on the survivor's routing.
On jungle gyms without long walls**, it is SUPER predictable that a survivor will take the window. You can use your rush to bounce on the wall behind the window and catch them. Your best option as a survivor is to bait that window OR take it early enough that you can go around the wall before Blight can line up for a rush. If you bait the window too early he can rush into the jungle gym and get you before you reach the pallet.
Blight can turn 90 degrees when doing an attack (and I hope he stays that way or else im uninstalling this game). Dont think a simple box is going to prevent him from hitting you. Don't hide behind the box on the window side of shack or behind the door frame on shack. Blight can catch you there.
You best defense against him are medium round objects. Yamaoka maps are full of rocks that are too big to curve around, but small enough that if you try to rush towards something and then back, the survivor will be able to go to the other side of the rock.
Sometimes if you get right up on Blight's face when he slams on something to try and rush at you, it is very hard to keep track of you. It's a desperate measure but it can cause a Blight player to miss a hit.
Use Dead Hard. When Blight is coming behind you, turn around and Dead Hard AT the Blight. It can sometimes be confused for the survivor trying to spin you, so your instinct is to hit to counter the spin, which means you miss because of the Dead Hard. Doesn't work 100% if you're going against a Blight player that is very aware of Dead Hard, but it may delay his hit or make it more difficult.
**This is the Jungle Gym I'm talking btw. Window is Blue, pallet is Black. If you bait them, survivors ALWAYS take the window. I've only ever had ONE survivor actually bait that window against me...and I've played SO much Blight...
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This!
I legit wish there were a surrender button on both sides. I picture something like this:
As a killer, once 4 gens are done and you're under a certain threshold on your hook count, you have an option to forfeit the match. If you do it, all survivors immediately get either double BP or they get a special BP bonus. The killer loses either all of their points, half of their points, or only get a set amount of BP for the match, and it does not count as a DC so they can just queue up again and not waste time and energy in a situation that sometimes is not worth trying to get back from.
As a survivor it would work like a vote system where all survivors have to choose to give up. This way one person giving up doesn't just screw the entire team like with hook suicides or normal DCs. And it could work like Endgame collapse where the entity just kills everyone. But you shouldn't be able to just do it at the start of a match. Maybe like once the killer gets a certain amount of hook progression while being under 1 or 2 gens done or something. Pointwise it would work about the same as the killer one.
Obviously this is just a rough idea but the intention is to give both teams the chance to forfeit something they see no reason in continuing while still requiring them to put in some effort in the match before coming to that conclusion and providing the other team with an actual game. No instant forfeit just cuz you're going against a killer you don't like or cuz you see 3 survivors with OoO....
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Demo is a very mid tier killer. I have fun when playing him, but if I'm going against decent survivors I expect to either have a sweaty time or a loss. Rat Liver is a MUST on Demo and STBFL is a perk I never take off.
My Demo Build is: BBQ, Pop, STBFL and Enduring.
I put portals on gens because that way I always know what gen is being worked on, and I force them to waste time breaking them if they wanna work on gens. So I completely forget about Demo's potential stealth. I prefer the info. Some people prefer the stealthier approach and that's fine too. I find my approach a bit more straight forward for my playstyle.
With Enduring I never have to be worried about being pallet stunned, so I can just either shred or lunge at pallets. Honestly Enduring is one of my fav perks in general. Remember if you get a pallet dropped before even readying a shred or if you get stunned, it's actually faster to break normally, unless you are at a distance from the pallet, then it's faster to shred.
With STBFL you up Demo's lethality and you can shred the obsession. But you must understand that sometimes the obsession will make it impossible for you to shred them. If that's the case, forget the stacks, the hit can be more important.
Overal Demo is not a waste. He can be really fun, but it's important to understand how he is the most mid tier killer in the game, and he can only do so much against very competent survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
McLean knows.
The more helpful thing to do is to gather clips of the places he's sliding off, AKA where basic attack collision isn't working.
Well that's good to hear.
I guess I'll keep an eye out for that as I play him.
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This is legit the tier list I've agreed with the most tbh XD only thing I'd do is bump Plague and Deathslinger up one level and that's it.
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It's very nice to know what if I see a survivor who decided to work on a gen instead of healing and I down them I can just pick them up regardless of whether or not they had been hooked before.
It's also nice to know what if a survivor unhooks another survivor after being being unhooked themselves, they're not just be able to get away with that play for free because of DS. It seems like survivors actually have to weigh the options they have and they must play smartly with their saves.
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2066886#Comment_2066886
As you already know, the devs clarified that the jflick with Blight is not intentional and that it was a deliberate design choice. Could the devs give him a buff where jflicking is official and part of his kit? Sure! And yes, there are many Blight players out there who can do just fine without jflicking, it's not just some random generalization/assumptions I'm making up. I've went against plenty of them as Survivor. That and many well known streamers do just fine. Did it ever occur to you that those Blight players that don't alter their mouse DPI actually more put more skill into their power BECAUSE they don't use an outside exploit?
But then again, you can argue every single Killer requires an arbitrary level of buffs so the survivors need to put more effort on countering their power (besides the obvious top contenders like Nurse and Spirit). As for the whole "Killers need to put more effort than Survivors". I mean, yes, it's pretty darn obvious Killers need to put more effort and quickly adapt and strategize than Survivors do. But that's the point right? Killers require more effort but that's also why it's so fun to play the role. The killer is alone against 4 survivors but you are playing for yourself, you don't need to rely on other players to help boost the advantage. That's the beauty of playing Killer, it's certainly more stressful but it all comes down to you challenging yourself, testing your reflexes and muscle memory.
You know what fair enough... although there's something to be said about the mechanical skill in altering your dpi mid rush so you can do a flick.
I play with 3200 dpi just in general so to me I can pull off some over 90 degree flicks when i really need to, without changing my dpi, and it's still pretty risky cuz if you overshoot or undershoot it's extremely disorienting so i think think complexity of execution balances the benefit it can provide in certain situations.
And I agree with you when you say that if a dev says it's unintentional and it's a problem for them, ultimately they have the last say. If they just made it part of his kit officially it'd be ideal. I was just explaining how I think whether it's initially unintentional or not is not that great an argument for balancing purposes.
I agree with you that the difficulty in mechanical execution and other things are part of what makes the killer role appealing. It's why I like it more even though I try to play survivor so I can be as fair as I can with what I think and say. I just think that ultimately it is very unfair how the killer role is required to do more demanding things for longer stretches of time. I think it's not a healthy mentality to have for the game for several reasons, and I was simply using it as another point in my defense of what I consider to be a high skill tool in Blight's toolkit that makes him more versatile, the absence of which only serves to make his counterplay easier for survivors, which I just don't agree with.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2066753#Comment_2066753
Posted this in another thread but here are my thoughts.
The flick arguably raises blight's mechanical skill ceiling but substantially lowers the strategic/game knowledge skill required to get hits at tiles.
Scott Jund's blight guide showed its entirely possible to use his power at almost all tiles without using an exploit, by anticipating survivor movement, understanding tiles, and planning bounces. Getting hits by instead using flicks to rush straight at survivors around structures bypasses what should be a more impressive combination of both mechanical and tactical skill.
Secondly, blight's lunge hitbox is MASSIVE. trying to dodge out like you might vs billy usually still results in a hit. It's obviously not an intended mechanic and it's incredibly frustrating to play against.
That is not necessarily true at all. Blight necessitates you as a player predicting your opponent's plays. You also need to know when and where to use your power in specific tiles regardless of your ability to control and make use of a substantial flick. It's just how the character is played and the situations where the flick can be used are very specific, hence why it only increases the killer's versatility and allows him to counter survivors just walking around a corner like it's all they have to do.
I know how to use Blight, ive seen Scott's guide and other guides, other Blight players as well as played him endlessly at rank 1 since his release... His 90 degree flick is invaluable to his kit, and his turn over 90 degrees is literally only useful in very particular situations and you need to have control over what you're doing otherwise you'll overshoot or undershoot. There is so much clutter in DBD maps that it's essential with a killer like that to have the tools to navigate around them, otherwise it just puts all the hard work on the killer while a survivor only has to move a bit behind something.
I replied to someone about the unintended aspect of this in another thread so I'll just copy what i think verbatim: "Here's the thing. Looping at some point wasn't the intended way to play the game. But that's what the game became, because it's the way players gravitated towards when engaging with it, and the devs noticed and course corrected. I don't care if something is intended or not, and the devs shouldn't either. What I care about is if the tool that exists provides a fair situation where it requires effort and knowledge proportional to how much work it puts on another player and the type of benefits it provides to the player using it."
It's a high skill tool to use with Blight at certain situations. If you get hit by it, the Blight player outplayed you, or you failed to put yourself in an advantageous position and you failed to understand and consider the capabilities of the killer and player you were going against.
Blight is powerful and in a good spot, with pretty good individual and team counterplay. He doesn't need his kit neutered because some survivors have a hard time grasping how much he can actually do. I can't begin to tell you how many survivors, streamers included, have commented on me playing Blight without addons thinking I'm turning too much even without me doing flicks... they just don't know cuz they never bothered to play the damn killer... Maybe those survivors should play the killer, so they know what the killer is capable off and what it requires from the killer player to pull it off.
Ultimately tho, what the hell does it even matter... a dev already said it's unintended, they'll probably fix it regardless of what anyone who plays Blight well says and that will be that.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2066671#Comment_2066671
its not intended, as wasnt intended onis 180° flick, needs to be gone, is very annoying how he manage to make stupid turns at tiles that he shouldnt. nothing else.
Here's the thing. Looping at some point wasn't the intended way to play the game. But that's what the game became, because it's the way players gravitated towards when engaging with it, and the devs noticed and course corrected. I don't care if something is intended or not, and the devs shouldn't either. What I care about is if the tool that exists provides a fair situation where it requires effort and knowledge proportional to how much work it puts on another player and the type of benefits it provides to the player using it.
-In the case of this flick. Here's what it does:
Survivor is in tile and doesn't think about his distance from the killer, his positioning or the killer's speed. Survivor turns corner cuz they don't know how much Blight can actually turn. Survivor gets hit if the Blight predicts the turning at the right time and flicks to catch around the corner. Too early, you get stopped a bit by the corner and don't reach the survivor. Too late and you will overshoot and will not reach the survivor.
What it provides the Blight player is the ability to counter a survivor just turning a corner not thinking about what Blight can actually do and gives him more versatility in the clutter clusterfuck that is map design in this game, so long as the Blight player knows how to use it.
-What happens in this scenario when Blight cant flick:
Survivor sees corner, survivor doesn't even need to bother looking at what Blight's doing. Survivor turns corner. Blight's power is useless.
The survivor barely has to pay attention to counter what the Blight player is doing and the Blight player has to predict and counter what the survivor is doing, measure the distance they are from the survivor and how fast they will catch up. To be fair, even with the flick a good Blight will always think about what a survivor can do several steps ahead, but with the flick a survivor at least needs to consider their opponent and not just "oh a corner!" to counterplay.
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The problem with this mentality is that when you get survivors that know what they're doing, they will do these low effort things extremely easily and will also add higher level tactics which will break the game in favor of survivors who know what they're doing. This also happens with killers that are problematic, but less frequently imo.
This is why effort balance is always important. The balance of what a player needs to put in compared to how much and in what ways it benefits them and how much effort it puts on the opposing player.
Although I'll make a concession. If they fix his flick to be 90 degrees instead of 180, it'd be acceptable. If they make it less, then it's literally just making it EZ for survivors who can't be bothered to actually figure out what the killer they're going against can do.
Let us remember that Oni's flick was downgraded to like 45 degrees, but his power is an instadown, Blight's isn't an instadown. And also let us remember how ######### easy it is to loop even good Onis in certain tiles precisely because the poor bastaards cannot maneuver... the effort they need to make to get you is a combination of prediction, bating, timing, mechanical skill with their power and game knowledge, but all you need to do as a survivor is look at him and turn a corner, at most you need to make a read on a bait.
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2066753#Comment_2066753
And yet there are many Blight players out there who can play very well without jflicking, what's your point?
My point is, it's another thing that is indicative of the mentality the devs and the players of this game have where tools that serve a singular purpose when used in specific scenarios, and only when the player using them knows what they're doing, are taken away because the other side can't be bothered to learn to deal with it.
Also, I don't care about these many, very real, Blight players that do well against good players without his flick, that totally exist and are totally not a generalization that someone on the internet made to try and make a point. My point is, his flick is a tool he can use to deal with certain situations that, without it, ONLY require a survivor to turn a corner a little bit to nullify his power. Again, effort balance. What's expected of the survivor without the flick is minuscule in comparison to what's expected of the Blight player in certain tiles.
-Clarifications (because I know someone might try bringing this ######### up)
To clarify,...im not saying killers are weak and useless and get trampled by survivors. What I'm saying is that this kind of change is indicative of a mentality that thinks it's fine for survivors to have to work less to get results. Whereas a killer player, especially with a killer like Blight, needs to know so much more and try so much more to compensate for what survivors are doing.
To clarify a second thing, because I'm sure people will bring this ######### up as well...I am not saying survivor gameplay is totally 100% skilless and easy. Given the fact that it is very possible to differentiate between good and bad survivors that's just not true. HOWEVER, when at similar levels, I think it is pretty accurate to say that most things that killers need to do to thrive in a match are more demanding and require more present knowledge, awareness and effort than what survivors are required to do. There are things in the game that change that dynamic and there are problematic things on the killer side, and solo queue is bad. BUT generally speaking at similar levels my position is accurate, which is what bothers me and has me tired of this game.
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@Rogue11 said:
McLean confirmed yesterday (again) that this is not intended and implies that it is being fixed!
Oh wow that's great. Just what a high skill floor killer like Blight needs, to be another killer that requires ZERO attention on the survivor part of their positioning and distance from the killer.
I already barely play this game anymore because of how ridiculous its gameplay decisions are. The only thing that gets me to come back to the game is that I do so love Blight. I'll just have a reason to finally uninstall it for good as soon as this ######### change happens.
ffs...Mildly hide behind a rock "Oh sorry your power is useless now teehee" what the ######### else should one expect from survivors.
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I cant believe people complain about his f-ing flick...like cmon, people, its a single tool that allows players to use his sliding to our advantage when its useful. You need to know when to use it and without it Blight becomes so useless in so many tiles...
Is there literally a single thing that survivors can actually bother to learn to play against instead of calling out for nerfs as soon as it's half a percent different from their regular tile running?
There are still ways around his power, there are still angles he cant make and if you remove that he will be so easy to dodge...so ridiculously easy to dodge...
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The Clown update is pretty neat.
The Nurse looks pretty nice.
The new Crotus Prenn and Giddeon Meat Plant look ######### amazing.
Ruin Undying needed to die so I'm glad that's been addressed.
I'm happy about the buffs to underutilized survivor perks.
The Wraith changes are supper nice. Not just the invisibility, he is now more capable to mindgame certain tiles with his extended speed up. It's almost like pig's dash in a way.
Above all I am super duper happy with the fact they decided to show us stuff earlier in their development cycle (the OoO and DS changes). This kind of transparency would save them a lot of effort if they take feedback early instead of wasting time, money and energy developing something that ends up being poorly received. I hope they do this more. I really do.
The crawling animation and some other animation transitions look pretty good. It kinda makes me wish killers had some transitional animations for things like looking from side to side, since from the survivor's perspective it just looks like the killer is spinning on a record player XD
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Not only would this not fix anything, because as a survivor you would have no more information than you currently have (you currently know when he is likely to shoot or not, but this is based off of game knowledge and not the game holding your hand), it would massively weaken Deathslinger and make him no more than a worse huntress.
If you lower his ADS speed, he becomes weaker at most loops. Most loops against him would start favoring survivors, because unlike Huntress, Deathslinger shoots a very tiny and precise projectile, so all a survivor would have to do is move a bit erratically and the shot becomes a massive risk for Deathslinger. This doesn't happen with Huntress because her projectile is much larger, so even with the warning survivors need to do much more to dodge her projectile at close range.
Also once he puts his gun up, you, as a survivor would have no more clue of when he was gonna shoot than before. You'd just have a more obvious idea of when he is LIKELY to shoot. And you'd know this, not because you understand how the killer plays, or because of your own game sense...you'd know this because the game just outright tells you... because I guess making reads is an arcane skill and the way to develop that skill has been lost to the ages...
Dealthslinger players need to predict your movement and you need to predict their actions. If a Deathslinger doesn't shoot and only baits, he gets annihilated by gens. If a survivor makes a right read, then Deahslinger will lose a lot of distance and time, and that adds up.
A slower ADS will also mean Deathslinger will be MUCH weaker against corners. If a survivor is about to make a corner, you can try to take the shot, and this is actually where a mindgame can happen. If the survivor predicts the shot and moves out of the way, the Deathslinger misses. If the Deathslinger takes too long to take the shot, expecting the survivor to move, then the survivor will make the corner. If the survivor predicts the shot and wiggles, but Deathslinger predicted that the survivor would attempt it, then the Deathslinger can make the shot after and hit the survivor.
This mindgame ONLY happens, because Deathslinger's ADS is so fast. If it were slow, there would be no mindgame, survivors would make these corners and Deathslinger would be stuck gaining on them at 0.4 meters per second. And once he makes the corner he would need to see if the survivor has the time to ADS and shoot before another LOS blocker. Jungle gyms would become massively powerful against him, which they already are if the survivor knows how to make reads and puts the pallet down when they have to.
If you don't like playing against Deatghslinger, that is totally fine...I hate Trapper and Hillbilly with a passion. But Slinger is a high skill, mid reward killer at best and he does not to be made weaker because survivors refuse to learn to make reads on their opponent. But this discussion has been going since cowboy man was released...the devs will either change it or they wont...i dont think what we say about it will make a difference.
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Here's a couple I can remember off the top of my head.
First one is the non long walled variation of a jungle gym. You must bait the survivor into going though the window. When you hear they have, you rush to the wall behind the window and catch them.
Second one is that loop that appears a lot on farm maps. Usually there is another tile adjacent to it, so you bait the survivor into going for the loop and then you use the adjacent tile to rush to them.
First shack is a variant with a tree on the corner. You bait the survivor into going through the window and when you hear they did it, you rush to the tree. They'll likely Try to go back through the window so you must be ready to flick so you can catch them.
Second is another variant of the shack. If the survivor is too far from you and goes into shack, you can rush to the doorway, wait a second to see where they went and then lethal rush and catch them.
I think Scott Jund has a good guide on Blight with tips you can use.
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Other Feedback:
-Injured icon could be problematic for colorblind players.
-Having to look all over the screen for pertinent information is not preferable to having all that information in one place as it is with the current HUD
-The hook counter is welcome. The killer one seems a bit intrusive, it looks like some status effect separate from the rest of the HUD. If there could be a better way to integrate it with the rest of the HUD instead of making it a separate circle it would be preferable.
-The UI scaling is a welcome change.
Feel free to add more feedback that's constructive.
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I'm kind of glad to see people are giving good feedback on the new HUD update they announced. I there are several issues with it I'm just going to post the most important one IMO and then list others.
MAIN ISSUE: As the title says, the new HUD has important elements that show up on the top of the screen. As a survivor it's not too bad, because of the 3rd person perspective. As a killer, however, most of what you need to keep track of (obstacles, your pathing, survivors crouching behind things) is located on the bottom half of the screen (Ground level) or at most halfway since usually the horizon(half of the screen) will be at eye level.
Looking down at the current HUD, you still have your vision in the part of the screen with everything relevant during gameplay itself (ground level). With the new HUD you will have to look up to check on gens or survivor statuses, meaning you will look away from the ground, meaning you will be more likely to miss survivors crouching or hiding or detritus in your way (especially important with Blight and Billy who can have their paths disrupted by tiny obstacles).
This is not to say every killer is going to be missing survivors constantly or bumping into things. But in a game where you must keep track of so many things, a HUD that makes you look away from what's relevant is disruptive. It's not good UX.
Important HUD elements should never be on the top of half of the screen, imo.
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You can get some nasty ass angles with those flicks, but you can also overdo it and miss a survivor that didn't move as much as you thought they were moving.
Quite the advanced move on Blight imo. It should definitely stay. If it goes away, Blight will immediately be so much weaker and so much easier to juke...
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I don't think so. The is not survivor sided or killer sided, nor is it balanced, it just has some bs for either side, and I think the devs are slowly trying to make it better for both.
I do think there are some seriously problematic stuff on the survivor side:
-Perks that are very very strong and whose description could basically be summarized as "delete mistake or dele outplay from killer by pressing/holding a button". There are very few killer perks that work like this and the only one that's as powerful is probably NOED. I think perks that give you extra benefits during the match instead of outright deleting your mistakes are healthier.
-Their main objective is uninteractive, too safe and too simplistic, it makes it feel like when a killer is sweating their balls off trying to outplay a survivor consistently and fast, all the other survivors are doing is holding M1 and somehow getting close to winning, which is ridiculous.
-Their main form of defense against killers consist of getting gifted set ups by RNG. At the very least there's some skill in being able to use their set ups, but because of how gens work, sometimes that skill isn't even necessary. It's a very binary defense. You either make it to a pallet thanks to map layout or you don't. I think there should be more stuff survivors can do to that depend more on their skill than just map RNG.
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At the same time, killers are able to tunnel survivors out of a match, regardless of DS, and have the tools to camp survivors to death, or slug them to oblivion (now reinforced by the existence of the Twins), all these practices, despite being tactics, deprive survivors of meaningful gameplay, in fact they focus on depriving survivors of gameplay in order to give the killer more time to deal with the game. I don't think this is healthy.
Lets also remember that because of very bad matchmaking and ineffective tutorials, it is very common to be the only survivor in a team that has the slightest idea what their doing. This makes solo survivor experience very frustrating for survivor players, however it's a catch 22, because the only thing that makes killer playable is there being some weak links in survivor teams, otherwise killer would be unbearable to play.
But yeah...there's massively impactful issues that make the experience of both sides quite bad, but it is getting a little better...slowly... Problem is, people are very bad at talking about them.
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There are only a few killers that can deal with eating a DS and still chase the survivor that used it. Like other people have said, you're better off eating it early and leaving them, unless you find yourself in a situation where its best to slug while keeping pressure on other survivors.
I usually eat a DS when there's only 1 or 2 gens done and I know there's no progress on any more gens, or If I have a hooked survivor and a slug, that way I still have pressure while eating the 5 second stun. If I see that gens are getting done too quick I'll usually go after an unhooked survivor and eat a DS if I have to, but it's more out of desperation than strategy.
However, if you're playing Blight, Spirit, Nurse, Deathslinger, Huntress and maybe Twins and Billy, you can try to eat their DS and go after them again, keep in mind, you'll probably be leaving the other 3 survivors to their own devices if you do so, but you'll have a chance to take out one survivor early.
Whenever I play Blight I usually chew through BT and DS without much issue, but it depends on whether or not the survivor managed to get to an advantageous position. Once a survivor knows you're tunneling them, they'll be much less conservative with pallets and with a modicum of coordination their team will be able to pump out gens.
However, like others said above, I too have never regretted eating a DS early to mid game, I've only regretted not eating a DS early or not tunneling a survivor when I should have.
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I wasnt directly called a hacker, but i watched the VOD of a survivor streamer I played against as Clown and the streamer and his two SWFs were constantly talking about my Clown being "sketchy" because they thought I caught up to them too fast... Even though they literally never turned back to face me during chases and thus never realized they were running diagonally from me instead of straight away from me, making it extremely easy for me to cut them off...
People will accuse one of cheating for any reason, most of the time out of sheer ignorance...its kinda funny.
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@seki23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1829576#Comment_1829576
if u read what i said, i said that rather go against nurse, wich is the ultimate adapt to go against so no man, he is extremely unfun to go against and none of that will work agiasnt a good slinger. just dead hard to make him lose LOS thats all you have, but the next time you are dead. unless he mess up, but thats on him not on you-. nurse is kinda the same if she is good or very good you are screwed but she is more rewarding for making reads since she is slower she is forced to blink thats were simple loops can come in crutch, simple loops sucks agaisnt deathslinger, he is weak at 4 v 1 dont get me wrong i never said he is OP or anything he is jsut extremely unfun.
For what it's worth I'd rather face a Slinger than a Hillbilly or a Trapper, because I find those two killers to be extremely annoying to me as a player, but it has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the killers should be reworked, cuz I don't pretend like my disliking of a killer in the roster is more important than the countless people that enjoy them, nor do I pretend that the fact I don't like facing them, means anything regarding their actual balance.
A killer being "unfun" literally means absolutely nothing, because "fun" is not a metric. Does he have counter play or not? I argue yes, you argue no, we fundamentally disagree on what constitutes counter play, but at the very least we have grounds to argue from, we have a definition we can contest and we have factual elements to take into consideration. "fun" is a nothing word that is useless for any argument.
Someone else already said they enjoy going against Slinger in this thread alone, and I have read countless of these threads complaining about one killer or another and have always found a pretty sizeable chunk of people who actually enjoy playing against the killer that's said to be "unfun", because "unfun" doesn't mean anything, it's the single most subjective thing you can try to argue and is useless when it comes to balance or what changes need to be made and for what reason.
I argue that you, as a survivor, actually make the Slinger player miss. It's up to him to land the shot and it's up to you to make the shot as hard as possible, and good survivors know this, and good survivors make damn sure that no shot the Slinger takes is easy. A Slinger that knows how to play does not miss unless survivors make every shot as hard as possible, because go figure, hard shots are hard to land, and inconsistent to land, which then create pressure on the Slinger player, which makes them miss more easily. Anyone who has ever played Slinger against good survivors can tell the massive difference between a survivor that doesn't know what they're doing and a survivor that is seasoned against Slinger, because their plays matter, despite some people pretending survivor plays don't matter against Slinger, and the Slinger player needs to constantly make reads on their target based on how they played previously.
But whatever...I've seen and argued countless times, with other people that both agree and disagree with me on so many threads about Deathslinger, Hag, Spirit and every other killer survivors like to pretend there's no counter play against. To be honest it doesn't matter... I don't even know why the hell I decided to engage with this one...as if it would matter this time. I just hope the devs are sensible enough to see this matter with more clarity than any of us, whatever their ultimate decision may be.
Edit: Grammar
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Learn to make a read...
All of these posts literally read to me as "x killer doesn't give me all of the information I need and ample warning to absolutely negate what they're doing, therefore killer boring, no counter play"
Meanwhile survivors that know what they're doing know how to force shots they can predict and dodge preemptively, making the Slinger miss. It becomes a mind game where the Slinger player needs to predict how the survivor is going to move so he lands his shot, and the survivor needs to be very mindful of their positioning and then make reads on when Slinger is going to have to shoot in order to try and make him miss. However, the skill of the killer actually makes a difference because it matters how good they are at making the shot, it's not just up to the survivor to dodge.
It's actually kinda both funny and depressing seeing how many people absolutely hate killers that don't chase normally and who require different considerations and strategies from the survivor.
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@xenofon13 said:
They need to revisit autohaven. It's too dark, pallets blending with that greenish ugly colour and they're not visible.
They did terrible job in my opinion.
Mcmillan maps are far better.
I agree with this. I wish they had done with this map the same they did with McMillan, but with a slight green tinge.
But given Badham is still the abomination that is is, where you cant see anything 2 feet ahead of you, i think they won't do anything to Autohaven either.
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I like it quite a bit. It improved upon such a horrible part of the game for survivors, while still keeping it quite powerful.
If you get someone on their second hook by mid game it's gg for the team once you take them down, because you can ignore DS and get rid of them as soon as they're unhooked. If you get more than one person on second hook by late game it's just as strong.
I honestly can't understand how people think it's useless... but then again, i never really saw moris as a tool to deal with regular matches...i always used it more for the cool animation and to blow off steam every now and then, sometimes I'd use it to deal with keys.
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Keys have been acknowledged as a problem but resolving the issue with keys is probably more complicated.
Mori's aren't even nerfed into oblivion...if you're decent at the game, unless you're having the worst game ever, you will have people on second hook by mid to late game and then you can literally just poof them out of existence without worrying about DS. It is quite powerful still.
I think it's a good thing that this specific change came sooner rather than later. You don't need Mori's to shut down keys. It just made it way easier. Now it's harder.
And if you really have a problem with keys (and trust me, I do), you can just dodge lobbies with a key and find another one in 15 seconds cuz killer queues are instant.
Now if the key issue does not get resolved in several months, then we have a reason to complain...but I believe it will come sooner rather than later. Hope I'm right about this.
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@azame said:
So I want to start off and say you cant complain about keys not being nerfed when it isnt just a number change and mori is. The nerf will come in due time so let's give the devs time.
To start before the nerf people were down with the nerf to mori despite never using them. If you ask any killer main here they will say they rarely use moris. But now that it's been nerfed why are these same killer mains complaining about it being "useless".
I seriously cant understand how we people are getting angry about an objectively broken thing getting nerfed, and claiming bias. It doesnt look good and atleast on my experience I can say killers are more whiny and it kinda shows but let's ignore that for now and think about this.
What if keys were to be nerfed first and moris left under the guise of "moris are rarely used". Guarenteed any complaint from a survivor is shut down because everyone knows survivors are the oppressors and killers are the oppressed.
That's just speculation but I'd say its accurate for what it is.
Most of the time I disagree with almost everything you say. This time, however, I agree with you.
I too, was under the impression that any reasonable killer player would understand that a Mori nerf was necessary and it's better that it comes sooner rather than later, especially when it's something relatively simple. I guess I was wrong...
Mori's aren't a direct response to keys, they just make dealing with keys a lot easier and I don't blame killers for using them to do so. However, they are still pretty powerful, because you can still tunnel someone off second hook with a Mori without worrying about DS. They can still be used against keys, they're just not as easy to use...
Now, to be fair, regarding your last assertion, every single post complaining about Mori nerfs has a pretty decent amount of people shutting them down, as well as people supporting them, and most of the support I've seen is because it was a nerf that came before the survivor counterpart, which I guess it's better than not agreeing with the nerf at all.
I'm sure if the situation were reversed it would be a similar thing, you'd have people complaining about it, you'd have people agreeing, and people shutting them down.
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@rafajsp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803107#Comment_1803107
Hard to harass without being hit by a scroll hag.
Just take a look at some Michi YT videos.
I'm not criticising but take a look ... he even write "since my web is done is almost gg".
Where is the skill ? Roll a button ? You don't even have to chase wich part of the game and what 99% of the players like. There is no chase, just scroll and hit and hook.
If you pay attention to the traps and where they're placed you can always run in, activate the trap and run out, even with an instant teleport you will have enough time, if you plan ahead, to make it to safety, especially if its a Hag player that instantly swings after teleporting. You'll get massive distance.
I have seen his videos, and thankfully he has seen fit to reply to you. He's an amazing Hag player, but he's not invincible, Hag is not invincible. She's one of the few killers in the game that allow the skill of the player to directly translate to how much she can do in game while still allowing survivors the chance to compete against her IF they can outwit her.
The skill when playing Hag comes from the ability of the Hag player to think ahead, anticipate, set up and manage all survivor players within their traps, in a time effective way. And true skill comes when Hag players are pitted against survivor players that know how to deal with Hag, because then, the Hag player has to massively adjust their strategy to outwit survivors. It actually becomes a game of who can outplay and outwit the other instead of who can get to the pallet first.
Chasing is part of the game. But there are 22 killers in the roster, some are more chase oriented, some are better at catching up, some are better at surprising, some are better at stalling, some are better at setting up, etc. Not all killers should need to chase and not all chases need to be the same. Hag is probably the one killer that almost doesn't have to chase people because her power is purely strategic and she is too slow to chase people normally.
Also, i wouldn't be as confident saying 99% of players like just chasing... that is massively unfair to a whole chunk of people who love engaging in different playstyles. I, for one, enjoy other parts of the game and sometimes I find chases annoying as survivor, because I want to do something else.
I love playing Hag specifically because I can look at survivors running in the distance and just stay in my little corner doing my thing, and all of a sudden all my planning comes to fruition and survivors get caught. It's very satisfying.
I actually quite enjoy going against Hag, because she isn't a normal chase killer. I have to pay attention to what she does, try to analyze her plan, try outsmart her. It is super satisfying and brings welcome variety to the game.
It's fine if you don't enjoy it, and you can have your reasons for not enjoying it, and you can defend your reasons. But the killer isn't OP, ggez because you don't know what effort it takes to play the killer effectively, the killer is not uncounterable because you don't know her counters and the killer isn't "boring" because you specifically find her boring, and even if a majority of people did find her "boring" it's still 1 out of 22 killers, one that caters to a specific niche play style for both sides, and the people who like this playstyle probably massively enjoy the fact that this killer exists.
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@rafajsp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803084#Comment_1803084
But once scroll Hag web is done it's almost gg. There is little you can do.
Hag is an interesting killer to face for me. She's one of, I think, three killers in the game that require you to actively harass them, the other ones being Ghostface and Trapper.
She is immensely powerful, but if you constantly harass her traps and trigger them at opportune times it will become very cumbersome for her to keep her web up. It's obviously easier said than done, it requires a lot of focus and observation, it's a back and forth between the wits of the Hag player and the survivor player. A lot of survivors do not care to learn how to play against Hag because she is so different from normal loopy chasey killers.
Hag is slow and you can trigger her traps from a decent distance, so I honestly see no problem with binding the teleport to a different input to maximize teleport speed.
Edit: word order for clarity
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It's part of the strategy of using hag. One of the things I think about when setting traps is "Ok, so if the survivor is running this way and they trigger a trap that's here, there's a chance it will mess with their pathing". Since Hag is slow, it massively helps her get in hits during chase.
It has a strategic component to it and it adds a layer of planning to her gameplay. I for one really like this feature.
When I face a Hag, I pay attention to possible spots where these traps could be and immediately prepare for that camera movement so I can counter it. If you have the camera facing directly where the trap is then it either doesn't move or the movement is so subtle is negligible. So it also adds a layer of complexity to her counter play from the survivor part.
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When it comes to games with some level of customization, some people like being able to create or otherwise be able to use characters that they can identify with in some way, or that reflect some aspects that they enjoy, visual or otherwise.
An LGBT+ character would simply have this one aspect that some people may identify with.
Now, it was said specifically in the QaA that they don't want to make a character whose only trait is "Is LGBT+", which I think is the right way to approach these kinds of things. Unlike say Overwatch, where they just say "oh Soldier 73 is gay now" and that can be found absolutely nowhere in game...
Even though I'm not to bothered by the lack of this one specific thing, I do sympathise with people who would like to have specific character traits available to them in videogames with character customization or a large roster of characters.
I am a mega fan of good character customization in games, and have in the past dropped or loved games based on being able to make a character to my liking. A lot of the time, the characters I would like to be able to make are just not possible options in most character creators, so I fully understand people wanting certain options they like or can identify with to be available. I can tell you right now if we had a male survivor that looks very feminine and uses the female survivor shape, I would instantly become a survivor main lol
Also, BHVR did say that representation is important to them. So it's a good thing to hold them to their word, because they shouldn't get to benefit from the good will of people who do find this aspect important without following through on their promise. Just like they shouldn't get the goodwill of people who buy their product only to find that the new Ormond makes fps dip to 35... they should be held to their word on whatever promises they make.
Edit: Misspelled sympathise
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For Demo, I just hope they don't nuke Rat Liver without making it base kit.
For Wraith an increase in cloak speed would do wonders...I wish Bone Clapper was base kit, but maybe thats too much.
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Even though I think it's very bad that Blight slides off certain things, i think being able to cancel your initial rush would be too much. The power should be reliable, meaning no inconsistent sliding, however it should still punish you if you make a mistake and start a poorly angled rush.
In a perfect world where you don't slide off stuff because they didn't make those collisions properly for your power, you should not be allowed to cancel a bad rush.
For lethal rushes, you can always cancel by swinging.
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-FOV Slider
-Frame rate optimization. There is no excuse for a game like this to run at anything lower than 60 fps on any map.
-A rework to survivor objective. It's too easy, too safe and too quick. I'd prefer something a bit more demanding that puts them in a bit more danger.
-Accessibility options for people who need it.
-For sounds to be fixed. I don't want to see a slug silent on the floor ever again.
-For scratch marks to be reliable again...it's been like what a year or so? since scratch marks started becoming super unreliable, they spawn with gaps, and spread out in ways that make it seem like a survivor ran one way when in fact they went the other way...
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Blight's the best thing to have happened to this game for me.
He just needs a coupld of QoL things:
-They need to fix his collisions. Too many objects he cant slam into, too many objects that trigger a slam even if you can barely see them in your FOV. I've learned several of these, of course, but its so easy to forget in the heat of the moment...
-His POV needs to be raised just a little so survivors can't just disappear cuz you can't see their scratches. Luckily they asre already working on it, and I'm looking forward to it.
-I think that after getting a lethal rush hit, or cancelling a rush his power meter should start recovering during the injection animation like it does when you break a pallet with a Lethal Rush. There is no reason for the cooldown to start going up only after the animation. It feels like a cooldown on top of a cooldown.
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At east Victor's sensitivity remains the same so you can actually do flicks with him. His hitbox seems large enough that it's not that much of a problem.
I think it's way way worse with PoTD with this survivors have pretty much full control over whether your power hits or not unless it's in very specific situations. Also with Slinger's shot...if a survivor is zigzagging you might as well not even try to shoot them.
It's generally easier to dodge these attacks than to land them. Although, I think the fact survivors can just run up in your face and disappear is way worse, it honestly gives me some level of motion sickness that they have the camera in such a way that a survivor can just move into you so much. It hurts to look at.
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There is a list of things Blight has 0 collision with or where collisions are just weird and inconsistent...I'll just copy paste from a post I made about this in the Feedback section feel free to add to it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/209956/list-of-things-blights-power-has-weird-or-no-collisions-with#latest
-Lamp Posts in Haddonfield, and I believe in Badham have 0 collision.
-Benches in Haddonfield and Badham have 0 collision
-A certain tree that spawns at the swamps has very inconsistent collision
-Most cars on Haddonfield have inconsistent collision
-The Fences in Thomson's house are very easy to slide off of, you have to hit them at 90 degrees and sometimes even then, you can't slam against them
-The bits of debris in Autohaven. You hit them even if you can barely just see a tiny tip off to the side of your FOV.
-The props in that one room in Hawkins with the 2 safe pallets and some scaffolding with a ladder in the middle. Pretty much everything there gets you to collide even if you barely see in your FOV
-The doorways in Hawkins, another issue of them having collisions so large you collide with them even though you barely even see them in your FOV
-The boxes in the swamp, specifically at the boat, are another example of a prop you can collide with despite it being barely into your FOV
-Every single snow mound on the new Ormond and the benches in Ormond. They have 0 collision.
-The big machinery thing in the building in Ironworks of Misery has very weird inconsistent collision. Some bits of it don't have collision at all even if you hit it at 90 degrees.
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@VerizonPayphone said:
Why does it always seem the scrutiny of a killers playstyle is most common? In fact, in my eyes, the equivalent to camping/tunneling is looping. It can all be considered abuse of the mechanics. Or it can all be considered natural par for the course when it comes to the game.
I'd say it depends on the looping. I absolutely detest places that are so strong or so safe that they're basically free time waste with barely any skill required from the survivor and barely any input possible from the killer. However I don't mind survivors having to mindgame tiles, be cheeky and deceptive to gain distance and chaining tiles in the most effective way. It's the only way they can show skill through gameplay.
Also, I would like to clarify, I am not judging killers that engage in these tactics...hell I use them myself, when its necessary. However there is nothing wrong with discussing these tactics. I see discussions about them every day, but I often find those discussions either cast judgement outright or focus on retribution rather than understanding, and I think that helps no one.
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-The big machinery thing in the building in Ironworks of Misery has very weird inconsistent collision. Some bits of it don't have collision at all even if you hit it at 90 degrees.
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@Sluzzy said:
You are complaining because people are playing Twins in a manner that is consistent with all other killers. That is NOT an issue with the Twins. Rather an issue with the player. The game can't force someone to play a certain way. You continue to say that because the Twins can't pressure gens players are somehow forced to camp and slug. That is a generalization I do not accept because I see Spirits ALL THE TIME camping, tunneling, and slugging. In fact, I find them to be the biggest sluggers, when in fact they don't need to. Your reasoning is flawed. You can be the most powerful killer, teleport around the map, and they will still slug and play in an unfun manner. I think this is another petty excuse to nerf gens because you can't play the Twins or you saw someone else say "aw, they are weak".
All killers shouldn't be able to win all the time. A killer shouldn't be able to pressure all the gens all the time. A killer shouldn't feel comfortable with winning, which you alluded to. If gens are going too fast, it is not always the game's fault.
Several things here.
-I wouldn't necessarily say I'm complaining. The issue of slugging, camping and tunneling is something that is talked about and ad nauseum in this forum, but whenever it crops up, only punishment is requested, which I think is not helpful or constructive because it ignores why killers would engage in these tactics, it assumes only malice or lack of skill, which is not true as far as i've observed.
-I understand these tactics are not a Twins exclusive issue. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the original post. I just use the Twins as an example because I've seen a ton of Twin gameplay and they seem to be almost always locked into these tactics, because other tactics were shut down by game pacing, which is now also reflected in posts people are making complaining about the Twins.
My intention with the post is to analyze a reason why these tactics happen in the first place, and while I will say, that indeed there are killers that engage in these tactics out of malice, I argue that the main reason a sizeable chunk of killers do is because they do not have the time or the tools to deal with current game pace by chasing survivors over and over, even if they're chases are very very quick, I'm not defending people who can't end chases until they have BL3 and refuse to leave it. Seriously, you cant go a single killer video or post without someone suggesting "oh you should have slugged here, tunneled this person here" these tactics are effective, the problem is they don't seem the best for survivor experience.
-Imagine for a moment that that Spirit player started like this, a person with the intention of giving survivors multiple chases, avoiding tunneling or slugging people, trying to 3 hook everyone. Eventually after several hundred games, this person realized just how quickly gens can go if given the chance and so unless they're allowed to, they will instinctively go for these tactics immediately to balance the game for themselves from the get go, because it's much easier to wind down once the game is under control than trying to ramp up when you've lost control of the game. I wouldn't necessarily blame a Spirit player even if Spirit is a killer that can mostly compete with gens...
-I do not advocate necessarily for gen speed nerf. In fact, in other replies to this thread I've specifically stated I don't think this, because it literally only translates to "hold m1 for longer" for survivors. Hell I don't even like most gen regression/slowdown perks for a similar reason...This is not a good solution, but also the post wasn't intending to make up a solution, because it's a long and complicated topic that has been talked about before, countless times, and other people have proposed countless possible solutions. This post was in anticipation of all the posts that would appear complaining about how campy and sluggy the Twins are, which, lo and behold, started appearing, because I've seen this pattern before, where people will complain about these tactics, they will want to punish the killers who engage with them without even considering a possible underlying cause, which I believe will only result in killers being more resentful of survivors and either being even scummier if they can or just not playing at all.
-I do not wish to come off as wanting killers to expect victory all of the time. But here is the thing, when a good killer loses, currently, it's because survivors held M1 on a thing they couldn't possibly patrol around, while the killer is trying to manage and outplay 4 people constantly. What is the incentive the killer has to make the game harder on themselves by not engaging in these "unfun" tactics? The kindness of their hearts and some personal pursuit of challenge, but not something the game actually gives them. Of course, there's more to it than that, but this reply is already long enough. I agree with you that killers and survivors should not be given free victories, but i don't believe thats the point i wanted to make with my original post.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794016#Comment_1794016
So correct me if I'm wrong. But what you're saying is that tactics used in the game should not be fun?
How is there any downside to tactics being fun for both survivors and killers?
I'd be careful using words such as "fun" to describe problems with certain tactics.
I did mention survivor grievances with the tactics mentioned but they are not the bulk of my argument.
My main argument is, these tactics deny survivors the opportunity to engage with normal gameplay, and they appear in direct response to the fact killers feel incapable of competing with gens by 12 hooking.
It would seem that for a fair bulk of survivor players, this is a problem, and I'd argue that denying players of engagement with the game is not particularly desirable for the devs either. So it should be addressed.
The issue with strong survivor perks like DS, UB, SG, SB, DH, etc, is not that they are "unfun" to verse, although I can admit there are quite a few people who think they are unfun. The problem with these perks, I would argue, is twofold.
-First the fact that their descriptions might as well be switched for "Undo the fact the killer outplayed you or the fact you made a mistake by pressing/holding a button." They give massive, very impactful benefits for a very low requirement from the survivor, usually at the cost of outright undoing a killer play or their own mistake. Who needs to be careful of being out positioned when they have sprint burst ready?
-Second, the fact they can be stacked with one another (and the fact that games go so fast) to create impossible scenarios where the killer has no meaningful choice to play around the perks. Every choice the killer makes is always wrong. Only find the unhooked survivor, eat DS or waste time leaving them and trying to find someone else, they go into a locker, you either abandon them, which wastes your time and gives them free time to do whatever, you eat the DS, in which case you waste time and get directly affected by the perk, or you wait it out on front of the locker, in which case you give 60 seconds x3 to every other survivor, you slug them and they have UB, they get up and do gens, you come back as they get up and have SG, they get a free sprint burst and waste your time. There is no right choice when these are stacked like this, not when the game can be over in 5 minutes or less by design...
Hopefully this clarifies the mentality I have when arguing these issues and why I think arguments from "fun" are not necessarily that useful and sometimes are so open to interpretation that they cause misunderstanding.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794013#Comment_1794013
It's no killer hitbox extended through windows nonsense. If you have ever played against a killer with good internet which pm my servers is no one, these hits will be close and the killer actually has to be good st mimdgaming and pathing to get their this instead of getting an unfair one.
On the topic latency imagine a game like fortnite (100 player battle royale) with these poor dbd servers and bad latency. No one would play. There hit validation should stop little latency because even with the little stuff it determines a chase. Any experienced survivor can tell you that.
If the devs cant figure this out there is no real reason to even look behind you as survivor because you have now take in consideration the latency.
It is not nonsense, its literally how the game works. When the killer attacks an invisible hit detection cone appears in front of them, the cone has a specific size, if the killer is hitting through a window the cone spawns and goes through the whole that is the window, and has the same size it would otherwise have. It's working as intended. Please refrain from saying something someone says is nonsense until you have properly determined what it is they said.
In their screen the killer is engaging in normal gameplay. They don't just hit you from a mile away on their screen and then laugh evilly because they abuse bad latency. You're also not seeing their plays in real time, they're engaging in whatever pathing and mindgame level they can achieve and it's not necessarily inefficient or not good because you both have mild latency desync with each other.
Im not going to say BHVR is a tiny indie studio, but to be fair to them, they are teeny tiny compared to Epic Games and probably don't have the resources to have the same level of quality in something that requires constant resources such as servers. They could definitely do a much better job given their resources, I'll agree on that, and hopefully we will see improvements on that area as hit validation, as well as their own servers become better and more accurate. I can say for a fact that since the first instance they added hit validation and increased the refresh rate of their servers, my connection has generally improved, so I imagine it will continue to improve.
Well how the hell are you going to account for latency if you're not even looking behind you to know the distance you are from the killer on your end? If you have to account for, say, an extra tenth of a second, you still need to look behind you to check the distance and then try your best to add an extra tenth-of-a-second-ish to the distance you're seeing. You're not just blindly making a guess, you take into account previous chases. I literally do this. All of the time. Obviously it's not 100% accurate, but it's damn well playable. Again, this doesn't mean it's not an issue that should be addressed. It does mean, however, that is manageable enough that it doesn't trump a whole killer's power not working.
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The hitbox killers have through windows is actually quite big. It's their normal hit cone. I dunno if you've ever seen videos of a trapper hitting a trapped survivor through a window. It looks so far that it seems like the hit shouldn't connect, but that's just how it is, ultimately the killer is extending their hit cone through the window.
That, combined with some latency, say about a tenth of a second, which is a decently short amount of time, is enough to cause these kinds of issues (like the videos you've shown in this thread).
Latency is expected and can be accounted for. I usually do and so I can usually predict whether I'll be hit or not fairly well, sometimes some BS hits happen, but hey that's life and that's what hit validation will try to correct. As far as I understand it, hit validation will not be in place to destroy hits with a little latency. It'll be in place to prevent egregious hits from a massive distance with latency that is just unacceptable.
However, a whole killer losing its power because of server hit validation being implemented is pretty big... when these issues arise, it is generally preferable to preserve the status quo. I don't remember how high the pick rate for Oni is, but imagine how survivor queue would be if all Oni mains stopped playing and played survivor for the duration of this issue.
That being said, I do hope hit validation comes sooner rather than later with the hotfix.
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@Chechia said:
Thanks for writing this. I always mention these things under every post where a survivor complains about tunneling or camping because it isn't as simply as just being toxic. It is a valid strategy and some killers have to rely on them. I am pretty sure if 12 hooking everyone would be possible, the majority of killer mains would love to do it. It's way more fun to engage in a lot of chases than having a sweat fest every game to win.
I agree with you. Im fairly sure the majority of tunneling, camping and slugging killers do it out of necessity, and it is kind of frustrating to see the posts about it, always asking for punishment instead of thinking about why these tactics exist in the first place.
I would also love to 12 hook everyone and I do, when games are decently paced.
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@xenotimebong said:
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. 4 survivors, with one being chased, one on the hook and one going for the save - basically the way the game “should” go - means that there’s always one person working on gens. And if the unhooked survivor doesn’t bother healing that number quickly goes back up to 3 on gens. And then there’s the fact that you have to build up to that hook-chase-hook-chase flow, and that at the start of the match all survivors are on gens. This is why people have those 5 minute matches where gens seem to pop fast.
As killer you need to incapacitate multiple survivors at a time, or get one guy permanently removed. You don’t physically have the time to win by hooking, chasing, hooking, chasing, in an even rotation. (Well, unless the survivors waste time not doing gens - then you can play more relaxed.) So you either slug or you try to kill one guy fast.
It can be very frustrating to be slugged for a long time or to be tunnelled so it makes sense that people complain about those things. But if the killer wants to get some kills they sort of have to.
I don’t think this is a solvable problem. I think it’s inherent to the game’s design and people need to just accept it. Expect killers to play “unfun”. Expect survivors to “genrush”. You have the tools to deal with these things, so use them or accept that you’ll lose more often if you don’t.
I will say this about your last point, however. It is not our job as players to solve the issue you state is unsolvable. I do believe it is an inherent flaw with the way the game is currently designed and it is a failure in the game design that killers have to play "unfun" and survivors have to "genrush" when played optimally. It's the devs job to see this and come up with ways to alleviate it.
However, as a community it is good to try to think of and articulate these issues in a constructive way. The reason I made this post is because already I see tons of posts talking about grievances with the Twins playstyle, and like most posts decrying tunneling, camping and slugging, they request punishment for the behavior, but never seem to try to analyze why these tactics manifest themselves and what could be a constructive way to tackle them, and if we as a community can't communicate the fact that this is a problem and why it is a problem to the devs, maybe they will never see a deeper issue that needs fixing. Also, if we can't properly communicate these issues with each other, then eventually it all turns into shite flinging...which only builds up resentment.
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@MrPenguin said:
Yeah, if we want killers to go for the 12 hook we need to give them time to do so. As is now, if the survivors can hold M1 and just loop decently, (not even great, just decently) a lot of the cast is going to have a bad time if they try to 12 hook.
I just posted this next line somewhere else: If its effective, its unfun for the other side. If its fun for the other side its weak. There's exceptions but that's the trend.
They don't even need to loop, survivors can literally hold W against a bunch of killers in the roster and just drop pallets instantly, and as long as they have a modicum of coordination and they understand that all they have to do is hold M1 you're either gonna lose or have an immensely difficult time.
I said this on another reply, but it's valid here again, what is the incentive a killer player has to make the game harder on themselves by chasing multiple survivors, multiple times, trying to outplay them all individually over and over, if the other side is literally borderline AFKing while holding a button?
Especially when we have killer characters like the twins that are too inefficient with their time to compete with how quickly gens go. It's inevitable that killers will resort to these tactics which in turn will make the experience worse for survivors...and survivors will only see the tactics and not the underlying causes and issues, and then they will come to ask for punishment for those tactics which then creates resentment from killers who feel even more cornered...and it all devolves into a ######### flinging cycle.