NekoTorvic
NekoTorvic
About
- Username
- NekoTorvic
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,919
- Last Active
Comments
-
Survivor's have been complaining about deathslinger for what i believe is no good reason since he came out. TBH i wouldn't be surprised if he gets a nerf where his ADS goes down to like half a second making him almost impossible to play with how janky survivors movements are in this game and how he is already vulnerable to safe pallets.
I for one am excited for the thing the devs annouced they're gonna do for early game. Deathslinger is very slow which is why "proxi camping" is almost necessary with him. Like if you go for multiple chases you'll end up with like 8 hooks and all gens done by the 5 minute mark XD Once gens go slower there will be much more incentive for slower killers to be less territorial. At least I hope this is the case.
-
TBH if the Overheat buildup has been reduced by like 60% like they said in the post I think its probably enough that it won't cause much issue. I think I can see the reason for the mechanic in the first place but im glad they listened to the feedback and decided to make it way less strict. We'll have to see how it plays when it's released.
-
Deathslinger is stupid slow and generators are too quick. The most effective thing a Deathslinger can do is down a survivor close to a 3 gen they want to keep and patrol that survivor and the 3 gen, unless they wanna lose the game after having multiple less than 20 second chases.
But hey, at least survivors can ONLY complain about the killer you're using and not you camping or tunneling.
-
Just saw the video a few minutes ago and just commented on it. I've been making points based off of the time it takes killers to catch up when survivors just run in a straight line for a while and I'm glad someone big in the community is breaking it down decently thoroughly.
It's simple really, all you have to do is plug in the good ol' T=D/S formula and start crying cuz you realize survivors don't even need to mindgame to waste a killer's time.
My go to example is Deathslinger. If you start running at 30 meters cuz you see the killer. It takes him 30 seconds just to cover 12 meters so he can hit you at MAX harpoon range (18 m) which is a pretty difficult shot that is not guaranteed a hit. If you wait for a safer shot, say 10 meters it takes you 50 seconds. It's why maps where he can't shoot as well like Game, Lery's and Hawkins can be brutal for him (and Huntress).
With a 115% killer it lets say the lunge is 6 meters (which seems to be the default lunge), if a survivor is running 30 meters from you and you cant cut them off, it takes you 40 seconds to cover the 24 meters before you can lunge.
I do see this as an issue, but I do not know what a solution could be.
-
@Kaien said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440607#Comment_1440607
Sounds good if the game is bug free but remember there are issues with the hitbox and the hit validation is done on the client side of the killer (which is atrocious should be a validation from both sides), the killer is most likely hit you so you throw the pallet at him.
If you fake not committing to the pallet drop you can make him think you are gonna keep running, and you make the play quick enough he won't time to react even if he commits to his Punishment of the Damned, and if he doesn't he won't have the time to get his M1 out. When you fake your M2, if you put the sword on the ground you actually can't M1 for like half a second after letting go of M2.
It's not the easiest play to pull off. There are easier things you can do against him. What Im trying to say is this is another play that can work in a specific scenario like what people have suggested in this thread can also be used in their specific situations.
What makes PH strong is the fact he doesn't have one thing that works against him 100% of the time consistently like he's some sort of NPC. You need to pay attention to the details of your situation and make hard to pull off plays accordingly.
-
@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440894#Comment_1440894
Yeah, she just needs some kind of visual cue when starting phase (maybe a noticeable stance animation, not simply the animation “resetting” like some people claim). No further nerfs are needed.
I honestly like the idea of her shards lighting up. It's subtle enough that you have to pay attention. It just needs to be a bit more noticeable and consistent across all cosmetics.
-
@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440607#Comment_1440607
He runs at 110 with his sword in the ground, he'll still catch you and doesn't actually need to take it out during the chase unless its a god loop.
Depends on your distance to the killer and the pallet, which is something you always need to pay attention to with PH. It works on some instances, obviously not all the time. If you're a certain distance from PH he needs to let go of his M2 to catch up, cuz remember he slowed down to like 90% for 1 second as he was plonking his sword. Again it requires you to pay attention to what he is doing, how close he is, and how close the pallet is.
Refer to all the other tips people have given in this thread for different ways in which you can deal with him depending on the situation.
-
@Rey_512 said:
You’re both right and wrong, OP.
Fun should absolutely be considered when balancing a game like this. For example, nobody reasonable finds mechanics with ZERO counterplay (infinite mending Legion, deep wound timer going down DURING chase, etc.) fun. Before anyone says DS doesn’t have counterplay, yes it does - slugging and/or going for someone else. When you have absolutely zero options against a certain tactic then it becomes both unfun and unhealthy for the game. For example, camping Leatherface is not fun and I think that should be considered when balancing this killer (hopefully his new “charge mechanic” prevents this, but doesn’t seem likely).
However, Spirit is not an unfun killer just because she is difficult to play against. In fact, her stupidly good addons were nerfed to even the playing field. I think she’s in a good place right now, except for maybe giving her a more reliable visual tell when she’s phasing (I think we all agree that her Stand Still at Pallet “mindgame” is ridiculous as it requires no skill to do). Gunslinger is a great chase killer but, like Spirit, is 110% and map pressure starts lacking.
In conclusion, fun should be taken into account but for the right reasons. If a killer is unfun because a power/addon doesn’t have counterplay then it should be looked at. If a survivor just doesn’t want to learn how to face a certain killer because they require different counterplay, then NO - the killer is fine.
OMG finally someone who is sensible in this discussion XD
I'm so tired of people complaining about killers with "no counterplay" just because they refuse to learn their counterplay. I agree with everything you said. I do think spirit could use a visual queue when she starts phasing. However I wonder how many survivors will stand still at a pallet when they know she is phasing? like is it a good mind game for them to have but not a good mind game for her to have? But then again she can have a different mind game where the survivor will either vault or not vault so it could be interesting.
I don't think there's a single killer that has no counterplay right now. They just vary in difficulty.
-
Try this trick survivors use all the time against M1 killers but its somehow eldritch knowledge against Pyramid Head:
At a loop see him line up an M2 if you get close to a pallet. Pretend you're not gonna commit to the pallet drop and watch him ######### let go of M2 cuz he needs the speed to catch up to you. Turn back and smack him in the face with the pallet. He will not be able to react if you do it quick enough.
Aside from that, just do what all the other people in this thread have said regarding playing against him. You just need to watch your distance from him, know what he is likely to do, and last by not least, like most other killers, hold W and make distance.
-
Pretty fun: Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger, Oni, Demo, Pyramid, Doctor, Huntress
Somewhat fun: Ghostface, Myers, Pig, Hag, Trapper, Legion,
Average: Plague, Wraith, Bubba, Billy, Clown
Very unfun: Freddy
It varies from match to match and the killer's playstile, but generally I'd see it like that.
I love playing against spirit cuz if i beat her on chases, It feels like im in the other player's head and its super satisfying.
I absolutely detest Freddy. I find his design boring, I think his character model is probably the ugliest in the game. His snares slow you down which just prevents you from making plays which i find boring and annoying, and it doesn't even have the limitations that Clown's bottles have, he can just spam them ad nauseam.
Billy is just loud and obnoxious, has instasaw and is annoying as hell when they just hold they're chainsaw up forever until they finally commit to it at certain loops.
Deathslinger and Pyramid Head are similar in that they require you to know how the killer is played and pay attention to how they're playing in the match. They also require you to be extremely careful with your distance from killer and your positioning around pallets.
The rest either give pretty fun chases where you have to be pretty aware of what you're doing but are generally easier to deal with or require you to be super vigilant.
-
I think there is a problem with the survivors' objective and how quickly it can be finished, but i do think that 17 second gen is a very bad example. The examples that make sense are games where every chase is less than 15-20 seconds and yet gens get done in like 5 minutes, which happens, and it's decently frequent. Sometimes, gens can be stopped at a 3 gen in which 60-80% of a game can take place which i think is a bit ridiculous, cuz it puts the killer in a position where any mistake costs them the game way too fast, where survivors can just make tons of mistakes.
I do, however, think that if this problem is addressed, the ability of killers to end a match in 3 minutes also needs to be tweaked.
I will say one thing that differentiates a gen rush from a very quick 4k, though. The killer had to interact with and outplay every single survivor, individually, for the 4k to happen. The survivors needed to hold M1 on a thing for their objective to be completed.
-
I'll just copy this from another comment i posted about Pyramid Head counterplay:
How to counter pyramid head:
-Lose LoS, make him think you're gonna mindgame a loop, then just hold W mindlessly and make a ton of distance
-If he's too close and you have to loop him, pay attention to your position determine weather or not its prudent to drop the pallet and when to do so. There's a billion pallets in the map and if your teammates are doing gens there's no such thing as wasting pallets, so you don't have to be greedy with the loop. Drop the pallet before he has the chance to wind up his attack so you have the time to dodge it.
-Remember the closer you are to pyramid head, the harder his M2 is to dodge. If you dropped a pallet at the right time you can keep a bit further from the pallet or window so he has a more awkward angle, which will give you a better chance to dodge.
-If he's too close and you can't loop, take the hit and use the sprint burst to put yourself in a more favourable position.
-Making distance and maintaining it is this guy's biggest counter and if you found yourself in a bad position, then you need more map knowledge or you need to pay more attention.
-If he misses his M2, dont stick around a loop unless its an extremely safe tile. Just bolt it to make distance.
-If he's hitting you, try and see what it is he is doing so you can counterplay accordingly. Remember it's a player youre going against. See how they play, play to counter it.
-Try to see which loops are good against him and which ones aren't.
-Dead Hard is your friend
Just as a note so you can understand how important it is to make distance, and this applies to every killer in the game. If you hear his terror radius and know where he would be coming from, if you start running when he is 30 meters away from you, just for him to catch up, if you run in a straight line, it will take him 50 seconds, because he gains on you at 0.6 meters per second. In practice it doesn't work like that because you can't run for 50 seconds straight. However its just to illustrate how important making distance is. You can waste soooo much time by just tricking killers into believing you're gonna mindgame a tile and just running away when you lose LoS.
I also disagree about spirit's counter being a "gamble", but its not the point of this thread so I won't get into it here XD
-
I don't think genrushing is toxic, but its more of a failure of the game design. What is the point of trying to go for multiple chases against multiple survivors if they can just pump out all gens in a couple of minutes? Even if my chases last 20 seconds this objective is still done. And yeah...the problem is that survivors don't have anything else to do in the match, and this objective is two quick and way too easy to perform.
Most matches I have i literally have to either put a survivor in the middle of a 3 gen so i can patrol the gens while checking on them (sort of camping), or try to tunnel someone out of the match as quickly as possible to try and have a chance. This is which literally less than 20 second chases consistently, because going through the map to find people and hooking takes time. Funny thing is, i do not do this when survivors are less optimal cuz it actually allows me to play the game and chase people.
Genrushing is just a failure of game design that forces killers into being lame which in turn gets survivors annoyed at killers and then everyone starts hating each other...
-
@MrPeterPFL said:
For the Xbox the running button is the skill check button, wouldn’t work on console
Yeah i know about the controller button scheme. Could be a different button tho. But if it is it shouldnt be a skill check cuz it might confuse people.
-
@Tactless_Ninja said:
I wouldn't mind a environmental hazard like a rogue tree root tripping you up. But just randomly falling over? Nope.
I can see how that would be better than just having it happen randomly. And you get the chance to avoid them if you hit the checks, yeah I can get behind this.
-
@Deathslinger said:
That does sound amazingly fun and funny mechanic from the killers stand point.
Might wanna try to implement a small bonus or boost for being successful in the skill check or QTE. Just so survivors don’t feel it’s a dumb broken killer sided addition to the game.
I can agree with the bonus for succeeding. Although I'm not sure what it could be that doesn't completely break chases.
@SpookyStabby said:
No. It almost ruined Smash, it will do just as much damage here. Tripping is the dumbest thing ever implemented in pvp gaming.
Lol, you might be right. Its obviously a silly idea. Just wanted to put it out there see what people thought, and maybe try and make something sensible out of it :3
@SurviveByDaylight said:
Why isn’t the killers QTE mentioned too? So this would be a debuff for survivors but killers get to move just as fast with ease without the possibility of error. Nope.
In my opinion, and this is my own opinion on things. I feel killers have a pretty decent amount of things to keep track of during a game, and i feel survivors don't necessarily. The most demanding thing survivors do IMO is looping and chaining tiles during chases. This should not disrupt that, its more aimed towards people who like to just hold w and make distance. But I agree that there could be something survivors could gain from hitting the checks, im not too sure what it could be so it doesn't break chases for killers : )
@SurviveByDaylight said:
I think killers shouldn’t be able to just hold down their left stick and move around fast without being challenged. Survivors have to sweat to get those extra seconds gain/momentum on the killer in the chase but the killer gets football field length lunges and crazy fast movement speed without any possibility of making a costly mistake during the chase unless they lose sight of you completely. They miss a hit, oh well, the recovery time is like ... well ... instant. They get pallet stunned or the survivor drops the pallet. Well sometimes it’s actually faster for the killer to just walk around the pallet. Can’t believe they haven’t fixed the pallets that only have a stack of tires or a piece of trash sitting next to them as a “wall” protruding from either side of the pallet.
Killers gain on survivors at 0.6 meters per second if theyre 115% and at 0.4 meters per second if they're 110%. This in theory means that if a survivor is 20 meters from you it takes 33 seconds to catch up to them on a 115% killer and 50 seconds for you to catch up to them with a 110% killer, if they just run in a straight line. Now obviously that doesn't happen because you cant run that much on maps without stumbling into something and killers have powers to help catch up. But making distance is very effective against most killers most of the time in my experience. I don't think a skill check that slows them down a little if theyre holding W would be too detrimental. I disagree with a lot of what you said in this post but thx for the input :)
@[Deleted User] said:
That just sounds like pallet RNG. As much as I would like it as a Killer, these things need to be a skill-check on current actions. Maybe fast-vaults have a change to hinder you if you don't hit the skill-check. And honestly only if the new hit-detection (once its released and info is gathered) proves to be a Killer detriment.
Maybe it is a bit too RNG based. I think I can agree with what youre saying.
-
Like many people, I feel 0k is a bad loss, 1k is a loss, 2k is a tie, 3k is a win, 4k is a pretty good win.
What constitutes a win, loss or tie aside though, usually a 1 or 2k feels frustrating because it usually happens when I'm having 20 second chases but the gens pop anyways. So I do not think it should be the golden standard for balance.
If I'm constantly having extremely long chases against survivors cuz they know what they're doing and gens are going, then fine its a loss against decent opponents.
If I have a very tight match but then make a mistake that costs me the endgame, then fine. I made a game losing mistake.
If I lose against survivors who can't even give me a chase for a few seconds solely because their objective is in my opinion completely menial and extremely quick with a modicum of coordination, then the loss just feels frustrating.
Balance should be, in my opinion, providing the tools for both sides to outplay the other skillfully so that the better side prevails, regardless of whether or not they win consistently or lose consistently.
-
I use this build and its decently consistent if you play well:
M&A: Makes it easier to sneak up on people. You move slowly and distance is your counter, so sneaking up gives you an advantage.
STBFL: Just a decent perk to make you faster. Your M1 into Shot combo is the most dangerous tool you have so building up stacks helps a lot it also lets you deal with survivors that are too cocky around you.
PGTW: Just a pretty decent gen regression perk. You are slow, but you are insanely strong at being territorial. Controlling a 3 gen area is pretty strong on this guy. You can switch it up for Corrupt if you don't like 3 genning.
Nurse's Calling: With Deathslinger you wanna try and keep everyone injured since you don't really have time to deal with healthy survivors again and again. Because of your small TR with M&A you can sneak up on unsuspecting survivors that heal too close or out positioned.
I think this is as meta as it gets with Deathslinger, but if you don't mind using meta perks I recommend this build.
-
@Gonourakuto said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1414171#Comment_1414171
nop i read them all and as a rank 1 survivor those are legit just "hope the killer plays bad"
Then I disagree with you about what constitutes a counter in these types of games. I don't think it should just be a 100% guaranteed thing where killer does this, survivor does that.
I am a rank 1 killer and usually stay between rank 1 and 3 as survivor playing solo exclusively. I can run PHs and DSs just fine cuz those are the killers i play the most. Sometimes I make mistakes but i can always look at exactly what I did wrong due to lack of practice rather than the killer being impossible to counter.
-
@Gonourakuto said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413740#Comment_1413740
I don't need to post anything i made my point very clear those killers have no counters in chase outside of themselves being bad and missing and thats why its OP , at best what a survivor can do is maybe some erratic movement but it only helps slighty and most of the time it will actually help the killer gain distance on the survivor so its a double edge sword tactic that mostly works in their favors
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413749#Comment_1413749
cages are the last thing i am complaining about i am complaining about their power in chases being uncounterable and too easy to use they are better easier huntress without drawbacks
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413818#Comment_1413818
Imagine having no real argument so this is what you come up with
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413825#Comment_1413825
I play on PC but okay nice try
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413994#Comment_1413994
if you compare bubba to PH and say bubba is better i am not gonna bother arguing
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1413996#Comment_1413996
all of those "counters" are not counters those are just "hope the killer play badly and abuse their bad plays"
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1414014#Comment_1414014
i don't mind huntress as at leats she has drawbacks and his truly skiiful PH is just an easier stronger huntress
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1414071#Comment_1414071
range plays almost never matters in high rank and are more see as BM trolling unviable plays , huntresses never try to snipe people and most of time will only use her hatchets to get them at a loop when the survivor drop a pallet or vault a window or try to get very close to combo them , the effective range of good huntresses player is very similar and close to the effective range of pyramid head
"all of those "counters" are not counters those are just "hope the killer play badly and abuse their bad plays""
All of those are completely valid counters that good survivors will pull off consistently. I do not believe for a second that a counter should require a giant telltale of what killers are gonna do so survivors can do the thing that negates it.
All these counters are able to negate what the killer is trying to do but you need to actually understand the game and understand the player and killer you're going against instead of just seeing a massive telltale like the killer is some sort of NPC in a single player. The killer needs to predict what you're doing as survivor and play accordingly. You need to do the same against these killers.
If you put yourself in a position where the killer can make a bad play that's on you for besting them. If you put yourself in a position where the killer needs to make a move, then it's on you to anticipate that move and counter it which you can do with every single killer in this game, and the killer will try to do the same to you.
If you cannot be bothered paying attention to your positioning, distance from the killer and the killer's power, and just mindlessly go around a box until you press space to drop some planks, don't be surprised if there are killers that can deal with it.
DBD is a game about predictions and knowing your opponent and your map, as much as it is a game about mechanical execution.
-
I'll copy this from a YT video i left it on. The video was indeed talking about PH being too oppressive.
How to counter pyramid head:
-Lose LoS, make him think you're gonna mindgame a loop, then just hold W mindlessly and make a ton of distance
-If he's too close and you have to loop him, pay attention to your position determine weather or not its prudent to drop the pallet and when to do so. There's a billion pallets in the map and if your teammates are doing gens there's no such thing as wasting pallets, so you dont have to be greedy with the loop. Drop the pallet before he has the chance to wind up his attack so you have the time to dodge it.
-If he's too close and you can't loop, take the hit and use the sprint burst to put yourself in a more favourable position.
-Making distance and maintaining it is this guy's biggest counter and if you found yourself in a ######### position then you need more map knowledge or you need to pay more attention.
-If he misses his M2, dont stick around a loop unless its an extremely safe tile. Just bolt it to make distance.
-If he's hitting you, try and see what it is he is doing so you can counterplay accordingly. Remember it's a player youre going against. See how they play, play to counter it.
-Try to see which loops are good against him and which ones aren't.
-Dead Hard is your friend
Now i'll add a new part for Deathslinger:
-Lose LoS, make him think you're gonna mindgame a loop, then just hold W mindlessly and make a ton of distance (same as PH)
-If you know its a Deathslinger, as soon as you hear his heartbeat just run away from where you are. His music may be a bit confusing but the heartbeat itself is very very clear. I have only once been caught by surprise by a Deathlinger and the only reason that happened is because i was out-positioned and when i looked and saw the killer from far away i thought it was a different killer so i wasn't prepared for it.
-DON'T BE OUT-POSITIONED IF YOU KNOW A DEATHSLINGER IS THE KILLER YOU'RE GOING AGAINST. I cap this cuz its important. Being out-positioned is the best way for Deathslinger to destroy you. If you're working on a gen that's very unsafe, have a plan of where to run and be extra vigilant to see if he is coming.
-Pallets are your friends. If you're injured drop the things and don't think twice, there's probably enough of them in the map anyways if your team is doing gens. If they're not doing gens its possible you're not escaping anyways, so focus on your chases.
-LEARN WHEN DEATHSLINGER IS LIKELY TO SHOOT AROUND LOOPS! This is probably the second most important one. If you know how the killer has to play, then you know when do juke his power. For instance, at a jungle gym, you know he has to shoot preemptively to get you before you reach the pallet. If you have enough distance you have to read his shot and wiggle to avoid it. At shack you can do the same thing. You know he needs to shoot you before you make a corner into the pallet, so you wiggle to avoid the shot and make him miss.
-He gains no you at 0.4 m/s which means that if you are 30 meters from him, it takes him 30 seconds to catch up enough for the MAX range of his harpoon if you just run in a straight line. This is different in practice because you can't run straight for 30 seconds, maps just arent big enough and usually have obstacles in the way. However the point stands. He's painfully slow, so make distance.
-Be erratic with your movement and wiggle in weird ways. Survivor movement on keyboard is JANKY AS HELL so survivors can make some awful sharp turns that completely throw off your shot. On console this is possible as well, but its a bit harder as moving left and right isn't as instant as it is with WASD.
-If he misses his shot, don't stick around a loop unless its an extremely safe tile. Just bolt it to make distance. (same as PH)
The problem i feel people have with these killers is that they're too used to being greedy with their pallets and going around a thing in autopilot then pressing space to drop the pallet. These killers can deal with that, so as a survivor, you need to pay a lot of attention to your positioning and distance relative to the killer, you need to understand how the killer player is playing and play to counter it and you need to understand the fundamentals of how the killer character is played.
Shooting with Deathslinger is not easy. Hitting PH's ranged attack is not easy. They both require mechanical skill and a fair degree of prediction from the player. So if they are hitting you constantly they're either extremely good which is good on them and you should strive to be better, or you're being way too obvious with your movement in which case you should strive to be better. Lets remember the game doesn't play itself for them just because the killer player picked a character.
-
Im actually warming up to the idea of springtrap as a killer and now i think id actually quite like it. However i think that power you suggest would be extremely frustrating as a survivor.
Its interesting in concept, but in practice it would mean you get a healthstate stolen from you by the mistake of other survivors, and mistakes of teammates costing you games is probably one of the most prevalent causes of frustration ive seen and experienced from the survivor side.
The reflection wouldnt give much map control but in loops it could act similarl y to Hag's traps so i see the value there.
However I don't know how well these ideas really fit with Springtrap's character tbh. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem familiar to anything he does in the series...
I much prefer original killers to licenced ones but i can definitely say id lilke this one. Even tho i don't particularly care about FNAF, Springtrap's design and story is pretty creepy.
-
Torment is a pretty powerful stat effect because of how it bypasses DS and BT. I don't think it should be applied on hit from PotD. You can already try to force survivors into your trenches at loops and it gives them the chance to avoid it.
-
@Godzilla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268885#Comment_1268885
You might have read my post wrong. If a healthy survivor drops a pallet and the Slinger goes through the motions with my suggestions, all he would get is an injured survivor and an empty chamber, with no stun duration. If the survivor was unjured when they dropped the pallet, with my suggestions the Slinger could down them there yes.
I do agree with you as well with how long his actions and such take. Reducing them would go a long way and would then require furthur analysis to see if any changes would need to be made, or not made.
I did understand your post but it seems I wasn't clear enough with what I said. I used the example of an uninjured survivor simply to showcase a situation where a Deathslinger could easily shoot you while you're putting the pallet down and it is a very easy shot because you're locked in animation.
Currently, the most Deathslinger can get from shooting someone over a pallet is an Injure. However with your idea Deathslinger would be able to down an already injured survivor through a pallet by reloading and shooting them again while they are speared. I think this would be too oppressive and I think the fact that pallets are mostly reliable against Deathslinger once your injured is important for survivors not to feel they're completely powerless against him.
So yeah, I hope this clarifies what I meant : P
-
I don't think Deathslinger is in a position where he needs these buffs, they seem a bit too much. If you make him able to just down survivors over pallets then survivors have no recourse against him.
Counterplaying him involves getting into positions where he has to take preemptive shots and dodging preemptively, this requires pallets to be a useful defense.
Just think about the times where you're healthy, you drop a pallet and the Deathslinger just waits there for you to drop it, shoots you in the face with little effort cuz you're stuck in an animation and takes the stun to get the injure. I know I do that all the time because the most valuable thing for me is getting all survivors injured ASAP. Now imagine if he could just down you over the pallet like that. It would be very oppressive because of his fast ADS.
Huntress can down you over pallets, but she needs to make the right read and preemptively wind up the hatchet because she doesn't have the time to wind up on reaction like Deathslinger.
I think Deathslinger's problems are mostly in how slowly he does everything. He doesn't need a 1.5 second missed shot cooldown + 2.75 second reload where he moves at almost half the speed of a survivor...
The green reload and cooldown addons are actually a pretty fair and I honestly think they should probably be base. Addon reload speed is 2.25 seconds instead of 2.75 and missed shot cooldown addon is about 1 second instead of 1.5. So instead of giving survivors almost 5 seconds of moving almost twice as fast as the killer, you're giving them 3.25 seconds. It would be less discouraging for Deathslinger to use his power (im sure you've all seen the Deathslinger players who are just too scared to use their power because of how punishing and finicky it is so they barely ever shoot). His counterplay will remain the same and survivors will still make distance if he misses shots. I also think it'll make the killer feel better and more responsive to play.
Oh and hitting through windows should be fixed. Cuz I've never seen something so inconsistent in my life playing this game. Most of the time you get the hit but it's waaaay more finicky than it should be and when you don't get the hit it hurts your momentum quite a bit. Like if you reel the survivor in all the way and you can't real anymore it should be a guaranteed hit, period. Cuz at that point there's nothing more you can do to help you get the hit.
-
A lunge action that cannot be cancelled just to isnta-grab a wounded survivor seems like something that's just not worth it. Especially with the 2 stab requirement first. If the injured survivor is anywhere open they just have to dodge like you would dodge Demogorgon. Even easier, because with Demo you at least need to account for him faking it, and as Demo you can fake it to gain distance, especially with the Rat Liver.
As a survivor there's pretty much no reason to not try to dodge. If Legion doesn't lunge, he can't m1 cuz it would just be a FF hit which can't down you. If they cancel their power then they have to take the 4 s stun and give you distance. Which again makes it less threatening than Demo, Deathslinger or even Huntress. Against all of these, if you try to dodge too much you will lose distance and they can just M1 you and get you.
You'd be better off putting on enduring, and getting hit by a pallet to cancel your power. Especially against healthy survivors, you just stab them through the pallet and get hit by it. Your stun would be 1.25 seconds instead of 4, if im not mistaken it does not reset your power cooldown, and you can immediately start the M1 mindgames for the down without all the conditions and risks that you're proposing.
I don't think Legion needs a full rework or extra actions. IMO he needs a faster cooldown cuz 20 is way too much, a faster stun, maybe 3 seconds instead of 4, and more speed to chain hits cuz 130% is pretty pathetic for a nonlethal power (Spirit goes faster than 170% when phasing, and she can actually down people with her power). Oh and maybe Deep wounds should be more of a threat, cuz as it is you can finish a gen thats close without mending and then mend afterwards with 0 risk...so much for pressure...
-
I think you need to body block the hatch so the survivor doesn't get the prompt to jump in. I don't think I've ever experienced this unless I arrive at the hatch a split second too late.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256801#Comment_1256801
I don't that that's so controversial. It seems pretty reasonable to me, honestly. Granted, it would have to be high enough such that someone who is playing normally with a good connection without a server nearby doesn't have any issue playing, but I don't see anything wrong with a high limit (say, 250ms). It is an online game, after all. While I do empathize with people who are having connection issues, it is on you to get that fixed, not everyone else's responsibility to deal with it for you. Those are real people you're playing with, not bots.
Although that's just one way to deal with it. There are other ways to handle it, such as by taking away hit authority and instead handling it on the server. That way if you have a terrible connection, you're the one that feels it, not the other people with good connections.
Id be more than happy if killers get booted off lobbies with a high enough ping... I believe tho, that making hits server sided will destroy killer gameplay, making most of them borderline unplayable. I really hope something like this is never implemented.
-
I agree that hitboxes in this game are bad. I mean how many times does it happen that you stand like 2 feet from a pallet, baiting the drop, only to then get stunned like somehow the survivor dropped it directly on you...like seriously those pallet hitboxes are ridiculous...
...In regards to killer hits, there's nothing wrong with the hitboxes. Hits are client sided on the killer side. Meaning that if in their screen they hit you, when that info reaches the server, the hit will be counted. So if a killer has bad ping, it will seem like they can hit you from further away. It is 100% a latency problem, not a hitbox problem. This has always been the case, even before dedicated servers, as far as i know.
For me its usually reasonable. Every now and then I get hit after a vault where i didnt expect it, and even more rarely i get hit through a pallet, or when in my screen the killer was just too far away. But usually I can take note of the latency in the match and adapt for subsequent chases. I believe if hits were not on the killer side it would probably break killer gameplay, making most of them almost unplayable.
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1245153#Comment_1245153
Noed could also pop when your camping to death survivors and noed basically removes the counter to camping since youd have to spend time doing bones and by the time the last gen would pop he has a 2k and gets the 3rd with noed. Congrats he just got a easy 3k for what standing infront of survivors all game and didnt even really get punished since a 4k isnt that big of a thing? So dumb. Otz did this on a stream and got basically all 4ks but one where he got stream countered by a 4man swf.
Aye, which is why i say i don't like the fact NOED gives you a boost even if you pretty much did nothing, and its pretty much my only issue with NOED. After seeing Otz's stream on it I do see that there is this specific scenario where a combination of things such as camping, NOED, Haunting Grounds, etc that is broken af. But i'd be careful messing with each of them on their own, not to say i wouldn't. Its just not as simple as saying well, if you camp all survivors get +90% action speed boosts...mostly cuz people don't agree on what constitutes camping, and what is an objectionable form of camping and what isn't. But going into that would be derailing the thread, I think.
-
I prefer to play killer, mostly because survivor gameplay is a bit dull to me. But I try to play both almost equally to understand both sides, their advantages, shortcomings and frustrations.
I have a couple of things to say to this.
Your first point "NOED Rewards Killers for failing" is not necessarily unbiased (or at least it doesn't sound unbiased) or necessarily true. I think you do not fail until survivors have escaped the trial. As long as they are within the trial you still have the chance to go from 1k to 3 or 4k even if the gates are open and even without NOED. Now we'd have to get into discussions about what exactly constitutes failing. In my view 0-1 k is a loss, 2k is a draw, 3-4 k is a win, pips determine the overall quality of the win or loss (how much you did, how much the other team messed up, how long the match went on for, etc). Even if you do not agree with my view on win/loss, saying that builds that acquire their full force during endgame necessarily constitute a failure on the killer's part, because all gens are on, seems weird to me.
I think a more accurate way of condensing point 1 an d 4 is NOED Rewards Killers for letting all generators be finished, and protecting dull totems.
I also think point 3 and its distinction with point 5 is not unbiased or accurate. NOED punishes survivors for doing generators (their main objective), while neglecting other objectives within a trial, such dull totems. Doing gens is distinct from genrushing, as genrushers usually have no regard for anything other than m1-ing at the nearest gens, falling prey to NOED and often times 3 genning themselves. Saving teammates from hooks is generally an exception, even genrushers know that they need their teammates to survive.
So more accurately, point 2, 3 and 5 could be condensed into: NOED Punishes Survivors as a team for focusing exclusively on their primary objective and neglecting dull totems.
As a survivor, it is frustrating to cleanse 4 dull totems and then be hit by NOED cuz my teammates couldn't cleanse even one. Especially when throughout the match I've been outplaying the killer. I will say this though. Devour Hope has earned a special place of hatred for me when I play survivor. Way more than NOED. Devour hope is more insidious and once it procs there's a chance that the team will die no matter what, especially if one of us gets moried. NOED only comes into play during endgame, which makes it way more predictable and thus counterable. Even so, I would not suggest changing Devour, as it is as strong as it should be, and rewards the killer for doing something.
My problem with NOED is the fact that the boost happens regardless of whether the killer stood in a corner all match or actually hooked survivors as usual. In fact, the most intense moments where NOED is at play is when the match is already difficult because of a high skill killer, and then NOED pops on top of that.
In my opinion NOED should keep its effect, but it should require the killer to do something during the match for it to activate. Could be something similar to BBQ, wherein you must hook every survivor for the thing to fully activate. It could even be that only survivors that have been hooked before are affected by the exposed effect, and the killer gets 1% extra movement speed per survivor hooked, so they only get the full 4% if they hooked every survivor in the match. This way it'll reward the killer for going after all survivors because it'll give them an extra boost during endgame, and it will not punish survivors that haven't been hooked all game for the blunders of their teammates.
That being said tho, NOED is almost the only thing that comes close to getting survivors to focus on the totem cleansing objective. Making NOED more dependent on the killer may make it even less likely that survivors will focus on this objective. Maybe the dull/hex totem mechanic should be reworked in general...
-
I find it to be a totally legit thing i just have to take into account when chasing survivors. It feels bad when dead hard saves a survivor's hide from a mistake, but that's the point of dead hard, and as a killer it's on me to keep track of it and take it into account. It would feel just as bad if i made a mistake that let them get to another pallet. And in fact it can sometimes get you downs too. I remember very specifically a match where i knew if i waited for the dead hard, the survivor would be able to line themselves for a pallet, but if i lunged they would either not use it, cuz they were waiting to be lined up, or they would out-position themselves if they did use it. So i just went for the lunge and got the down.
For me, its just another very distinct movement mechanic in a game that is mostly quite lacking in those. I've always been a fan of dodging/sidestepping options in games so I like dead hard both as killer and as survivor.
-
Pretty interesting. Yours is probably the tier list I've disagreed the most with so far.
In my opinion the list goes:
S - Nurse and Spirit
A: Huntress, Freddy, Hillbilly, Hag
B: Oni, Wraith, Deathslinger, Ghostface, Doctor, Demo
C: Plague, Myers, Pig, Legion
D: Trapper, Bubba
F: Bubba, Clown
Like you said, it's just an opinion. But to give some reasoning behind mine:
I think Nurse, after her rework is probably in the same level as spirit. Before that, she was definitely stronger.
Huntress and hag don't have to go for normal chases which makes them stronger. Hag has insane shutdown potential. Freddy and billy have insane map control, however Freddy can shut down loops, Hillbilly can get looped to hell if survivors know what they're doing.
Oni is an all around decent killer. I feel Deathslinger is overrated as hell. But i love him so much and i see how he can be at least B tier strong if not more in certain scenarios, but he can get way too much stuff robbed from him. Stealth killers are amazing at hit and run and don't need to chase normally, which is always very strong. Doctor has a lot of map control and can shut loops so he's definitely pretty strong after his update. Demo's lunge, especially with his brown addon has so much potential for mindgames and catching survivors, yet he is so loud and telegraphs everything he does to survivor teams... i feel B tier is a good place for him.
Plague can become super saiyan if she gets her corrupt purge, and if not she is basically perma tier 3 myers. Pretty strong, but she's too tall and gets slowed by everything she does. Myers has a weak af early game and his power is bugged to hell. Pig's slowdown CAN be decent depending on the RNG gods...but not much more to help her. Legion can injure multiple people, making certain plays much riskier but he gets beaten down by way too many negatives to his power.
Trapper can be good, but his traps being RNG based whether or not he makes it to them in time, him depending on addons to have more than one, the very limited number of traps in the map, its just a lot working against this poor set up killer. Bubba is one im uncertain about... The introduction of PWYF + Nemesis has made him stronger, and he has an instadown power. But because of how finicky it is and how much is stacked against him and just how much he can get looped to hell...i guess this is a decent spot for him.
And we barely need words for Clown...He's normal speed, he's huge and easy to see. His power requires a slow reload after a paltry 4 bottles... when he tosses a bottle he slows down for 1 second which basically defeats the point of his power. The only thing he has going for him is his pinky finger addon which is an ultra rare so i can't really give him much for it, and the fact he can cause early pallet drops...but there are enough pallets in a map where all gens can be done before you get anything from it .
My list does change all the time tho and there are a couple of spots Im uncertain about.
-
Playing Spirit is fun. The game of managing your power and having to rely on hearing and making reads is good to spice things up from other more standard killers.
I do think I enjoy playing against her more than playing as her. Reason is, because what she is doing is not just shown to you. You have to understand how the killer is played and pay attention to how that player is playing the killer to know how to juke her. And when you do, you get this super awesome feeling like you're in the other player's head and you know exactly what they're gonna do. Some other killers its mostly like "oh i see you did this, well i'll do this instead" it can become a bit mindless, especially at safer loops.
-
Deathslinger's counter play, like with Spirit, requires survivors to know the killer they're going against, observing the behaviour of the player they're agoing against and then making reads and being very mindful of not out-positioning themselves. This is precisely the reason the skill of the killer player actually matters with these killers. Survivors dont just get all the info in the world so they can counter. You have to predict and be deceptive, you have to bait him.
If you have issues against Deathslinger, play him for a bit, watch people who play against him effectively and analyse what his play style is like.
If you make his ADS longer you would have to turn his spears into trucks just like Huntress's hatches, because a minuscule tap to the left or right and a survivor dodges your harpoon. This will make him pretty much just a more useless Huntress. Right now he feels different. And as much as he suffers from being slow as hell with almost everything, his power is fast and responsive which I suppose is a big reason why Deathslinger players like to play him, at least it is for me.
Also his projectile moves at 40 m/s, so if you are about 18 metres away from him it takes almost double the average human reaction time for his projectile to reach you. Even with latency, at a distance it is possible to dodge on reaction. And it is literally one teeny tiny tap of the A or D key and you dodge it.
-
@AlbinoViera said:
Rank 1 Spirit main here. She definitely has counterplay as she is right now. It's like a lot fo survivors forget that they leave scratch-marks, or can double-back. I can honestly say a whole bunch of ways to counter-play her such as sprinting away when she's on the other side of a pallet, then walking back a second later. Or dropping a pallet early when she's in phase so you drop it in front of you, making her think you're on the other side. Even a simple one of guessing which way she's going to come from, something that you would do with, oh, I don't know.. EVERY OTHER DAMN KILLER. Seriously, everyone acts like every mindgame a person can do at a loop isn't a guessing game.. Just don't be an idiot and panic, you'll soon see that she's nowhere near as bad to play against as people make her out to be. If you truly, truly, don't have a clue on what you're doing against her, run Spine chill, Iron Will and Dead Hard. Spine chill tells you she's on her way, Iron Will makes you unhearable or just extremely quiet if she has Stridor, and Dead Hard let's you dodge a hit when she comes out of phase.
This...
People act as though whenever you mind game anything its not a guessing game. It is. Both killers and survivors deprive the other side of information in the hopes that they will make the wrong read. Not all mind games are like this, some are more reactive, some give more information than others. But with every killer and every survivor there are situations where you have to make a guess.
A typical example is when you, as a killer, lose line of sight and try to mind game, only to find out that the survivor just held W and is now miles away from you. If they're not injured its perfectly likely that you could not hear them in any way, so you had a 50/50 guess game and lost. Thing is, that was also a gamble from the survivor, cuz they kept holding W in the hopes you would try to mind game and lose distance.
The spirit does the same, except depriving you of info is part of her base kit. She's very hard to face because as a survivor you need to know how a spirit thinks, and you have to make a read. I actually find spirit to be one of the most fun killers to face, specifically because when you juke her consistently you are quite literally inside her head, instead of just just using your 3rd person to see exactly what she's doing.
Piece of advise to anyone having issues with spirit. Play as spirit for a while and learn how she thinks and what info she needs. See what survivors that juke you or beat you did to confuse you. Keep track of her power usage. For every second of phasing she has to wait 3 seconds for it to charge back at base. Use that against her. Even good spirit players can make wrong reads and you can juke them. And your job as a survivor is to try and prolong chases for long enough for your team to do gens, which is perfectly doable against a Spirit, just like any other killer. Except, the killer's skill can actually have a pretty big impact in it.
I do think that the indication that she is phasing could be a bit more obvious while remaining subtle. I like the idea of the shards lighting up, but as far as i know that doesnt work with most of her cosmetics and the shine is ridiculously subtle. Id make it just a tad brighter and obviously make it so it works on all her outfits. It even opens more options for mind games.
-
Deathslinger is very strong on chases but it depends on the other player's skill. He is also very punishing if you miss. I've had games against rank 1 slingers where they start missing about 4 or 5 shots and that's all of us escaping cuz he doesn't have enough map pressure, even if his other chases were super quick. As a survivor you need to bait his shots, since his projectile is so precise if you bait going around a corner he'll most likely go for the shot and miss, its especially effective when close to pallets.
The new map is a weird one. I don't think its as killer sided as people think. There's some decent loops with pallets even though they're mostly unsafe pallets, but the main building has very safe windows, which are decently strong even if the killer spends a whole minute breaking walls there. There are also some stairs in two other buildings, one close to shack, the other close to the saloon itself, which pretty much have god vaults and you can go around them. It does depend on how the drops are placed cuz the killer may be able to follow. The bushes in the map allow for pretty stealthy gameplay too. Overall I say the map is pretty fair, but I've found it extremely difficult for deathslinger himself, mostly cuz of the very safe gen positions.
-
A much as Deathslinger is probably my second favourite killer in the game just after Hag, he is, in my opinion, the single most punishing killer to use in the entire game.
His power is extremely discouraging to use even if you're decent at aiming. Huntress throws giant hatchets at survivors that are forgiving even if survivors are twitching all around trying to dodge it. Even with your sound cue, if you manage to fully charge your hatchets its pretty tough for survivors to reliably dodge them, and even so, you can adjust to try and compensate for their movement.
The Deathslinger's projectile is a tiny, very fast needle that's very precise in comparison. A survivor can literally spam A and D and most of the time its not even worth risking the shot because of how twitchy and sudden their movement is. Quickscoping is the only thing that he has going for him and even so, if a survivor is good and experienced and if the survivor did not out-position themselves they can bait movements and they can read when you're most likely to shoot. And the corn....the god forsaken stupid ass corn...
In the best case scenario he shoots a survivor, wastes time reeling them in, hits them then has to waste time reloading as he walks very slowly or else you're just a 110% m1 killer. If you miss, you're stupid slow for like 1.5 s after your shot, and then you're stupid slow while reloading again, and then have to try and catch up.
Worst case scenario, you actually land an extremely difficult shot only for the game to be like "oh you thought your skill matters in this game? lul" and have either the survivor be unreachable or even worse some bystander survivor just gets in between you and your target and pretty much takes your hit away almost for free. This can actually destroy your momentum cus it can deny you downs that with other killers would be easier to recover or otherwise push through.
In my experience both using Deaslinger a lot and facing a lot of Deathslingers between rank 3 and 1, if the killer misses about 4 or 5 shots while 4 survivors are alive that's almost a guaranteed gg because of how little overall pressure he has, even if otherwise the killer has been having chases under 20 seconds. Even with how punishing killer mistakes are in general, a mistake with Deathslinger is waaaaaaaay worse.
That being said, and as much as games with Deathslinger can be extremely stressful because of how perfectly you're expected to perform, I do not think he is as weak as Clown. He's most definitely weaker than Hag. I don't know if he's weaker than Legion or Bubba either. Probably somewhere around low-mid tier.
I don't know if he needs to be 115%, but I definitely think he needs something to help him out.