NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@Gardhome said:
I mostly agreed give up against mostly killers is lame. But when you face Wraith/Huntress/Oni you want give up almost instantly cause this 3 killers the most overpowered, busted and frustrating to go against. But against any other should be punish for giving up. Maybe dc penalty is survivor died at 1st hook. But again Wraith/Huntress/Oni needs to be exception or hardly nerf for this changes.
out of those three, Wraith is literally not overpowered at all and Oni usually gets power early into the match because there will always be at least 1 soloQ teammate that will give him first hit early.
Huntress is jut plain boring to face because average Huntress is just a zzz M2 fake zoning fest.
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sometimes it randomly censored "ggs" when i typed it too :D
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@TragicSolitude said:
Did any of the survivors bleed out? If not, I would think it's a bug. It wouldn't be the first time an adept achievement was bugged.
this can be the case, but adepts are sometimes bugged too.
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@Autharia said:
Most people that i know that use distortion was a counter to lethal and info on what aura perk ran with it for the extended time.
Object of Obsession is way better with way more benefits and little to no downsides for people who are good in chases
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@[Deleted User] said:
but most of the time the survivor that quit early probably would've been more of a hindrance anyway
So what exactly are you complaining about if they leave early?
Maybe other survivor players could also lend a hand and farm the survivor so it takes them even longer to get bled out.
So you want the others to work with the killer and farm a teammate which is reportable?
So what exactly are you complaining about if they leave early?
their teammates go into an extremely unfavorable 3v1 position because one person wanted to cherrypick matches and instantly get into next match they will eventually give up from if it also doesn't meet their requirements, and it's not fun for either side. We are complaining about survivor getting "tunneled out at 5 gens", while stance on giving up at 5 gens is...indifferent.
So you want the others to work with the killer and farm a teammate which is reportable?
not exactly that, but i would support anything that would make the player that wants to give up as mad as possible and waste as much of their time as possible, while their team gets to progress the game for free.
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Adrenaline got a little nerf because it provided instahealing even to survivor that was on hook prior to gates being powered.
NOED is a clutch against...bad players, in any case with survivors being semi-decent at the game, it will secure 1 kill at most.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819041#Comment_3819041
ah ok glad we on the same page. Yeah it definitely taking advantage how the game track chase for sure. I just see it as cool trick like play with your food moon walking.
every tech messes with the game in some way, but they all have their proper counterplay, while being some form of skill expression, that's what i like about them. Without them, game feels just way too linear to play.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819026#Comment_3819026
i can understand crouch tech but how is shift tech a bug? your just walking
people consider it an "exploit" because you are abusing the way game interprets chases. Neither it nor crouch tech are bugs, as crouch tech is also just a result of killers like Demo, Billy and Blight having fixed attack height and survivor hitbox while crouching gets slightly lower than that height.
Mad respect for people actually knowing how to utilize both to their max.
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i don't want to, they give more depth to the game and increase skill expression of the survivor role, same as killer techs increase skill expression of specific killers.
Only people that are actually complaining about techs from either side are people who need more excuses for losing a match
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@LadyOwO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818986#Comment_3818986
It's technically an exploit tbh. So I'll submit this to the bug report forum and let it get taken care of
let's post shift tech, crouch tech and CJ tech on bug report section too, shall we?
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i had my game crash 3 times since latest patch was released. No fps drops, nothing, just a sudden crash in the middle of a match
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818254#Comment_3818254
Good, we don't want to play against her anyway.
you are confirming the well known theory that people in dbd community act like "fun matters in the game, but god forbid if someone enjoys playing a specific killer", and i'm directly saying this as a huge SM hater.
Even though i hate her, there should've been ways to actually do something about her that wouldn't render her unplayable for people who love playing her and in general.
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it's crazy how so few players in this community actually have sense of logical thinking to sit down and think "wait, but why is slugging so rampant, why do killers avoid hooking before they ensure there are 2+ survivors on the ground?", but majority is immediately jumping on to begging BHVR to bring more handholding basekit mechanics.
There are so many perk that revolve around hook related actions as an activation condition, there is a whole sabo strategy buffed to further encourage denying hooks, hook stage timers are increased, hook grabs have removed, plethora of things have devalued hooking to the point where slugging is less punishable, even with all the anti-slugging perks.
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@Lentara said:
>first of all, calling moris toxic is on the same level as calling flashlight saves toxic.
second, i mean…what exactly is unbalanced about it? Even before, when you were the last survivor alive, what could you do if killer downs you before getting a hatch? Get hooked and instantly get sacrificed, or killer might carry you to the hatch. With finisher mori, situation is literally the same lol.
I think mori is toxic and I've already explained why I think so above. If you're too lazy to reread my answers, that's not my problem, I won't repeat the same thing over and over, we're not in kindergarten.
At the very least, being sacrificed sounds a lot more fun than being humiliated by some dumb doll, right? (just as an example). If you like dying that way, go ahead, no one's stopping you. I'm speaking here on my own behalf (and fortunately I'm not the only one) who doesn't like the fact that mori mechanics are inevitable for a survivor. Oh, and you mentioned saving yourself with a flashlight? FYI, if you haven't noticed, the killer has a cool ability called "lightborne". If you don't want to be blinded, you use it. But what if you don't want to be killed with mori? That's right, your wishes don't matter, you're just a meat survivor.
>welcome to literally every PvP game in existence, is it toxic if it's in nature of people to play to win? It's bad sportsmanship to win?Winning means you are sweaty tryhard?
- Calling survival horror PvP is, of course, too strong. I see a problem with you - you see the game as a platform for competition, and not as a game that should, in theory, bring pleasure from the process.
2. Yes. The culture of games "I play to win at any cost" is stupid, toxic and sweaty. You will not be able to change my mind. If you only get pleasure from winning and not from the process, then I think you should not play games.
>again, this kind of logic is as ridiculous as "flashlights are toxic" one. How can you abuse it? And even funnier, what makes you so sensitive about moris lol, the fact that the imaginary characters kills other imaginary character in a "disrespectful" way? LOL
I already answered this. I answered why mori is toxic and how players abuse it. Before you write something like that, make sure you didn't miss 90% of everything I wrote in the post and in the comments.
>so…mori is OP because killer gets immunity to an already unhealthy game mechanic, but btw, who can sabotage the hook when you are the last survivor left? Papa John?I think at this point it's time for you to take a breather and drink some tea, since your text is so emotional that you clearly don't see that your comment is completely devoid of logic and connection with what I wrote. Mori - OP, I wrote why. Because it deprives the team of the opportunity to save a teammate. The topic of Mori on the last one standing has nothing to do with this, if you suddenly didn't notice. This is a different topic. Do you understand? And I also answered what's wrong with this.
>darling, fatalities exist since first Mortal Kombat game was released and nobody was acting like they shouldn't exist because they are "disrespectful towards the other player", you are just meddling your personal feelings into it + taking it way too seriously.
Nobody is having too much power over you.Oh, we're getting personal? Okay my cute little boy, or whatever you want me to call you, my sweetie? I can be as cringey as you are, but okay, I'll try to be serious. So. MK and similar games are PvP, it's a competition. You're one on one with your opponent on equal terms. Can you say the same about DBD? If so... well? My condolences.
"You take the game too seriously" says a person who can't enjoy the game unless he wins. Dude, if someone spits in your face, I would advise you to just kill your feelings. It's not that he's bad, it's that you take everything that way. The argument of such a horn does not stand up to any criticism at all and has no relation to reality, because it has long been obvious to everyone that people - SURPRISE - are living beings who experience emotions and games also cause emotions, oh my god, who would have thought! In particular, the behavior of other players towards you can also cause emotions, both positive and negative, which is normal. I am more than sure that all those who say "dude, relax, it's just a game" smash the keyboard and scream at the whole house if they did not get their treasured 4K and the last survivor tbagging near the hatch.
>????????????Hell yeah, best argument I ever saw.
>dear god, you would be killed by sacrifice anyways, killer doesn't instantly become able to mori you as soon as all other survivors die, killer has to down you first.Dear Satan, there is a big difference between being sacrificed on a hook, having gone through all the stages, or being used as a free punching bag. In any case, I have already written about all this above and I see no point in repeating myself again.
I think mori is toxic and I've already explained why I think so above. If you're too lazy to reread my answers, that's not my problem, I won't repeat the same thing over and over, we're not in kindergarten.
At the very least, being sacrificed sounds a lot more fun than being humiliated by some dumb doll, right? (just as an example). If you like dying that way, go ahead, no one's stopping you. I'm speaking here on my own behalf (and fortunately I'm not the only one) who doesn't like the fact that mori mechanics are inevitable for a survivor. Oh, and you mentioned saving yourself with a flashlight? FYI, if you haven't noticed, the killer has a cool ability called "lightborne". If you don't want to be blinded, you use it. But what if you don't want to be killed with mori? That's right, your wishes don't matter, you're just a meat survivor.
no, i'm not lazy to reread your takes, that's why i instantly noticed that you are taking moris way too personally, nobody is humiliating you irl.
Calling survival horror PvP is, of course, too strong. I see a problem with you - you see the game as a platform for competition, and not as a game that should, in theory, bring pleasure from the process.
2. Yes. The culture of games "I play to win at any cost" is stupid, toxic and sweaty. You will not be able to change my mind. If you only get pleasure from winning and not from the process, then I think you should not play games.calling survival horror PvP is too strong? There are literally two sides playing against each other with set objectives win conditions + balance system along with MMR (although MMR system in it's current state is terrible). That is literally PvP game by definition.
"playing to win at all costs" is only toxic in the eyes of sore losers. It was never a winning side the one that said "i didn't have fun", but it's always the losing side that "didn't have fun". And if you think playing to win in PvP games is toxic, you are not built for PvP games.
Oh, we're getting personal? Okay my cute little boy, or whatever you want me to call you, my sweetie? I can be as cringey as you are, but okay, I'll try to be serious. So. MK and similar games are PvP, it's a competition. You're one on one with your opponent on equal terms. Can you say the same about DBD? If so... well? My condolences.
DbD is literally PvP, same as MK, the fact that it's asymmetrical has nothing to do with it being PvP or not.
"You take the game too seriously" says a person who can't enjoy the game unless he wins. Dude, if someone spits in your face, I would advise you to just kill your feelings.
jokes on you i'm playing my game with 140BPM music turned up to the max and playing only for clips atm, and i don't equalize some mori in the game with somebody spitting in my face irl because it's a game.
The argument of such a horn does not stand up to any criticism at all and has no relation to reality, because it has long been obvious to everyone that people - SURPRISE - are living beings who experience emotions and games also cause emotions, oh my god, who would have thought! In particular, the behavior of other players towards you can also cause emotions, both positive and negative, which is normal. I am more than sure that all those who say "dude, relax, it's just a game" smash the keyboard and scream at the whole house if they did not get their treasured 4K and the last survivor tbagging near the hatch.
some people get tilted when they lose and? As long as they don't throw various disgusting words in postgame chat guess what, i don't care at all.
Dear Satan, there is a big difference between being sacrificed on a hook, having gone through all the stages, or being used as a free punching bag. In any case, I have already written about all this above and I see no point in repeating myself again.
again, taking the game way too seriously and equalizing it with real life.
- Calling survival horror PvP is, of course, too strong. I see a problem with you - you see the game as a platform for competition, and not as a game that should, in theory, bring pleasure from the process.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817819#Comment_3817819
Oh yeah, because when survivors are dying they are winning
i think your comment has 0 correlations with what i wrote lol
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@francesinhalover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818572#Comment_3818572
Love the passive agressive nature. I always check killer loadouts. And i don't use distortion for months now. The thing is it was fine. Now it's all aura spam.
i was an avid aura reading user until a year ago, NTH and Lethal Pursuer never got out of my builds. The thing is, i realized i'm crutching on those perks and that i need to get rid of them. Not only regards those or aura perks in general, but regards general kind of gameplay on both sides. I don't want to rely on anything that is truly overpowered and let it carry my matches without my skill being involved. Same with Distortion.
I don't hate anyone, i'm just stating how some perks can play heavily with your mind and literally hold you back from improving as a player and even finding more fun in the game.
I can't even describe how great it felt when i managed to finally build game sense as the killer and knew where i should be at specific moments of the match. Or when i first managed to screw up a killer trying to tunnel me, even though i died at the end, watching all 3 of my teammates getting out thanks to me wasting so much of killer's time was the moment i was proud of.
With crutches you will never truly achieve that state of mind, you will forever remain in cage called "comfort zone" as you get screwed many times purely thanks to relying on crutches, what leads to "everyone is to blame except me" moments
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818572#Comment_3818572
But still, aura perks only make finding survivor easier, they don't secure chase to be won.
Survivors don't know that their aura is revealed (Weave is an exception), so they may be crouching nearby and in case of Nowhere to Hide it almost always guarantees free hit.
this is why i always vouched for NTH nerf. It's a braindead aura reading perk, especially on Nurse and with the fact that aura reading radius moves together with the killer
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818541#Comment_3818541
There's more things!
1: A very, VERY small and rare portion of Distortion users. But it seems wise and logical to punish all the players.
1a: Now that Distortion is nerfed, do you really think anything will change? Rats will continue being rats. Everyone else is just punished. BHVR never hits the mark very well with this sort of thing.
2: Another claim without any actual evidence, just your experience talking? Not flaming, just how I see it. I started using Distortion primarily when Blight come out, as his addon's were basically insta lose at gyms. Now, its Object all the way baby!
2a: Distortion did not discourage anything. Players decide how they want to play. And if a player wants to stealth around, it was a prime pick. There's nothing wrong with stealthing. Its wrong when its ALL they do, and that number is abysmally small. This is my claim without evidence.
3: Distortion has never been Meta. Not sure why this was stated, but even if it was, it didn't warrant a nerf this hard. And then they try to bandaide their mistake with a slight buff.
3a: This distortion buff of 15 seconds instead of 30 is like putting a used band aide on a freshly amputated limb. Its still useless.
2: Another claim without any actual evidence, just your experience talking? Not flaming, just how I see it. I started using Distortion primarily when Blight come out, as his addon's were basically insta lose at gyms. Now, its Object all the way baby!
my personal experience was always that Distortion users never knew to position themselves and never lasted long in chase.
And not only mine, i've already seen many not only killer, but also survivor players having the same experience with their Distortion teammates.
3: Distortion has never been Meta. Not sure why this was stated, but even if it was, it didn't warrant a nerf this hard. And then they try to bandaide their mistake with a slight buff.
in high skill gameplay it was always useless because everybody knows how to chase. Against killers with less game sense, it acts like meta because it plays with their crutches. However, average Distortion user relies on this perk doing it's work so much that they never learn chase aspect of the game, meaning once killer sees them , hooking them under 30s is guaranteed. They also usually go next on first hook.
2a: Distortion did not discourage anything. Players decide how they want to play. And if a player wants to stealth around, it was a prime pick. There's nothing wrong with stealthing. Its wrong when its ALL they do, and that number is abysmally small. This is my claim without evidence.
it DOES discourage people from learning the chase aspect of the game by creating that "safety bubble" comfort zone for players using it, so they don't feel the need to learn anything anymore.
Stealthing is possible even without Distortion.
3a: This distortion buff of 15 seconds instead of 30 is like putting a used band aide on a freshly amputated limb. Its still useless.
it's buff is purely on the recent stats, where average time in chase per hook state is 20s only.
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@Venusa said:
Same. I never seen the BP bonus for killers for a very long time in my region. Might be because of all the balance changes that make playing killer a better experience.
why are killer queues so fast then, even with the fact there is no BP bonus?
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818241#Comment_3818241
The survivor isn't already dead. They could have DS or some other perk that prevents them from getting hooked.
Also, dc is actively discouraged by BHVR.
i thought we don't like matches prolonged for no reason?
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@francesinhalover said:
With distortion existing killers weren't spamming aura perks. you would see maybe 1 that's it.
Now all killers are spamming them. it's 2-3 per game because they know no ones using distortion.
I couldn't care less IF PRO SWF COMM SURVIVORS DESTROY KILLERS. AVERAGE MMR AND SOLO Q are TERRIBLE ATM.
Several Aura perks have litteraly no counter like nowhere to hide(unless you hide in a locker, but killers usually check lockers near gens) . And darkness reveal works any time you want. Survivor can't even get hatch.
Solo q always was bad and for some reason is never improved.
With distortion existing killers weren't spamming aura perks. you would see maybe 1 that's it.
so first killers were spamming aura reading perks like mad and Distortion wasn't the problem because "tokens were melted anyway" but now suddenly killers didn't spam aura reading perks? Such a strange twist of events when one narrative is pushed before, and completely another after the nerf.
Now all killers are spamming them. it's 2-3 per game because they know no ones using distortion.
or you didn't pay attention on killer's loadouts before Distortion nerf because you were deep inside the comfort zone while equipping it.
I couldn't care less IF PRO SWF COMM SURVIVORS DESTROY KILLERS. AVERAGE MMR AND SOLO Q are TERRIBLE ATM.
MMR in it's current state is the same as if it didn't exist.
SoloQ being in in's terrible state is 90% fault of average person playing survivor, you can pretend it isn't, but it's very obvious once you open your eyes.
Several Aura perks have litteraly no counter like nowhere to hide(unless you hide in a locker, but killers usually check lockers near gens) . And darkness reveal works any time you want. Survivor can't even get hatch.
yes, NTH deserves a nerf, as well as Weave and Predator because they are free info. But still, aura perks only make finding survivor easier, they don't secure chase to be won.
Solo q always was bad and for some reason is never improved.
because somehow average soloQ player doesn't want to understand that survivor is a team role + they feel like they "don't owe their teammates anything" in order to actually play as a part of the team.
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@Lentara said:
Mori can be applied to the last survivor. There are at least two problems with this.
1. A survivor can be killed by this toxic method even if he was never hooked. I get that you guys like killers and all that, but the game needs to smell a little bit of balance, right?
2. You, the developers, if by some miracle you are reading this post, which I highly doubt, are literally cultivating bad sportsmanship by offering to kill the last survivor for free. Instead of encouraging a "hatch for the last surv standing" culture you're literally telling killers "dude we love that you tryhard and slug players for 4K".
3. Thanks to you and this "wonderful" update, playing as a survivor has become even more sad, and even more so being the last one standing.
The whole mori mechanic and the whole phenomenon is toxic. How could you think that such content wouldn't be abused and used for the most vile purposes? Oh yeah, you probably thought "let the players watch a cool mini-show" but that's far from true. In fact, mori is a manifestation of pure hatred and disrespect to player. In particular, it becomes even more vile because the survivor can do nothing about it? There is not a single mechanism that would be able to protect the survivor from the toxic mori.
Mori is also OP because the killer literally gets immunity from hook sabotage, blinding and other tricks that survivors use to save their teammate. Before you make a conclusion about anything, please read the following: I play both sides and I never use mori. I even try to ignore it as much as possible in the blood web. And I don't understand how anyone can like mori, but okay, everyone has their own opinion on this matter, I'm sharing mine.
So why is mori toxic? (attention here - MY opinion)
First of all, as I said, it is simply disrespectful to the player. Yes, this is a game about killing and surviving, but not about complete control of one side (killers) over the other (survivors). Although in today's reality it is, but that is not the point. Killers can do whatever they want to survivors, which they regularly do: make them bleed for 10 minutes, give false hope and then kill them and are very proud of it, and so on. As a player for a survivor, you have no control over yourself. You are completely dependent on how good a player you got on the killer and this is not normal, this is not how the game should work in my opinion. When I play as a survivor I mostly play solo and you can imagine the level of frustration that I get after each match. Not only killers have control but also "teammates" too. They can just sell you, not unhook you, bodyblock you, and a lot of other things that you won't have control over. But I've already gone into that. The point is that giving people too much power over other people is a bad idea from the start (and let me remind you that you're not playing against soulless bots, you're playing against real people who also have emotions just like you). Those who have too much power over others start to behave disgustingly, which we see in many killer players. I won't bring up tunneling and slugging here, otherwise I could talk about it for too long. The topic here is mori and mori is toxic. You can't resist it, it's OP and just bad sportsmanship.
Possible solutions to problems: just add an offering/ability or whatever so that the survivor has a CHOICE and a CHANCE. And that's it. It's that easy and simple. Mori-enjoyers won't take the offering/ability if they want to be killed that way (people can be weird, especially in this game), and those who don't want that will finally get a chance to die normally. I personally prefer to hide in the nooks and crannies of the map and wait for myself to bleed out than to be killed by mori. But unfortunately, this does not always work.
P.S and would be ofc nice if killers can't mori last surv who don't have 2 hook stage.1. A survivor can be killed by this toxic method even if he was never hooked. I get that you guys like killers and all that, but the game needs to smell a little bit of balance, right?
first of all, calling moris toxic is on the same level as calling flashlight saves toxic.
second, i mean…what exactly is unbalanced about it? Even before, when you were the last survivor alive, what could you do if killer downs you before getting a hatch? Get hooked and instantly get sacrificed, or killer might carry you to the hatch. With finisher mori, situation is literally the same lol.
2. You, the developers, if by some miracle you are reading this post, which I highly doubt, are literally cultivating bad sportsmanship by offering to kill the last survivor for free. Instead of encouraging a "hatch for the last surv standing" culture you're literally telling killers "dude we love that you tryhard and slug players for 4K".
welcome to literally every PvP game in existence, is it toxic if it's in nature of people to play to win? It's bad sportsmanship to win?
Winning means you are sweaty tryhard?
The whole mori mechanic and the whole phenomenon is toxic. How could you think that such content wouldn't be abused and used for the most vile purposes? Oh yeah, you probably thought "let the players watch a cool mini-show" but that's far from true. In fact, mori is a manifestation of pure hatred and disrespect to player. In particular, it becomes even more vile because the survivor can do nothing about it? There is not a single mechanism that would be able to protect the survivor from the toxic mori.
again, this kind of logic is as ridiculous as "flashlights are toxic" one. How can you abuse it? And even funnier, what makes you so sensitive about moris lol, the fact that the imaginary characters kills other imaginary character in a "disrespectful" way? LOL
Mori is also OP because the killer literally gets immunity from hook sabotage, blinding and other tricks that survivors use to save their teammate. Before you make a conclusion about anything, please read the following: I play both sides and I never use mori. I even try to ignore it as much as possible in the blood web. And I don't understand how anyone can like mori, but okay, everyone has their own opinion on this matter, I'm sharing mine.
so…mori is OP because killer gets immunity to an already unhealthy game mechanic, but btw, who can sabotage the hook when you are the last survivor left? Papa John?
So why is mori toxic? (attention here - MY opinion)
First of all, as I said, it is simply disrespectful to the player. Yes, this is a game about killing and surviving, but not about complete control of one side (killers) over the other (survivors). Although in today's reality it is, but that is not the point. Killers can do whatever they want to survivors, which they regularly do: make them bleed for 10 minutes, give false hope and then kill them and are very proud of it, and so on. As a player for a survivor, you have no control over yourself. You are completely dependent on how good a player you got on the killer and this is not normal, this is not how the game should work in my opinion. When I play as a survivor I mostly play solo and you can imagine the level of frustration that I get after each match. Not only killers have control but also "teammates" too. They can just sell you, not unhook you, bodyblock you, and a lot of other things that you won't have control over. But I've already gone into that. The point is that giving people too much power over other people is a bad idea from the start (and let me remind you that you're not playing against soulless bots, you're playing against real people who also have emotions just like you). Those who have too much power over others start to behave disgustingly, which we see in many killer players. I won't bring up tunneling and slugging here, otherwise I could talk about it for too long. The topic here is mori and mori is toxic. You can't resist it, it's OP and just bad sportsmanship.
darling, fatalities exist since first Mortal Kombat game was released and nobody was acting like they shouldn't exist because they are "disrespectful towards the other player", you are just meddling your personal feelings into it + taking it way too seriously.
Nobody is having too much power over you.Possible solutions to problems: just add an offering/ability or whatever so that the survivor has a CHOICE and a CHANCE. And that's it. It's that easy and simple. Mori-enjoyers won't take the offering/ability if they want to be killed that way (people can be weird, especially in this game), and those who don't want that will finally get a chance to die normally. I personally prefer to hide in the nooks and crannies of the map and wait for myself to bleed out than to be killed by mori. But unfortunately, this does not always work.
????????????
P.S and would be ofc nice if killers can't mori last surv who don't have 2 hook stage.
dear god, you would be killed by sacrifice anyways, killer doesn't instantly become able to mori you as soon as all other survivors die, killer has to down you first.
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@Ziemniaczana said:
My bets are on 0% killrate with self sacrificing on hook not counting in the equation.
i doubt stats will drastically fall, people still give up way too easily against her because "omg it's SM 😡😡😡"
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812551#Comment_3812551
Gen kick and 3 gen metas were alive and kicking for a full year. Where the killer meta was holding games hostage until the game closed.
Distortion and hiding play style has never been meta. It's popular with a small subgroup, and not something everyone does. You'd have to have a full 4 man swf of players doing this to have this argument work, and even then it relies on both luck of not being found on top of the killer having zero game sense, since you can typically figure out right where survivors spawn. Oh, and a stealth killer hard counters this as well.
Killers always have someone to chase in each match.
the things are:
- there was a portion of Distortion users who just hid all match and was waiting for hatch;
- Distortion encouraged avoiding interaction with the killer, meaning survivors using this perk usually completely lack chase skills and get obliterated by killers with game sense (yes, this is a bad thing even when you play killer because you want an actual challenge, not a survivor getting 2-tapped)
- Distortion playstyle isn't meta at actual high skill levels because game sense and macro knowledge take place there, but is meta in pubs where players are pretty much niche with game sense and macro knowledge, same case as with tunneling and camping
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818412#Comment_3818412
What is the true reason in your opinion? To me, it's because it's sometimes the most optimal play. Simple as that. Making stronger counters to it makes it less optimal, which should make it happen less. If we agree that being slugged is not fun, this should be a good thing, even if it requires other changes.
I do agree that I don't love perk-based solutions to gameplay problems, though, even though they can work.
because there are much more downsides to hooking than there ever were than there are to slugging, thus people have just collectively stopped hooking until at least 2-3 man slug can be achieved.
Imho hooking needs to be brought back to life since it's just too discouraged nowadays:
- strongest perks in survivor loadouts are those that...have hook/unhook condition
- hook grabs removed
- +10s to hook stage timer
- sabo related stuff buffed
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i knew Machine Learning will be gigaop after it's changes, this just proved it.
Slapping haste on perks for both sides and buffing haste related perks is something that should stop
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@CrypticGirl said:
With all these predictions that slugging would be even worse with the Finisher Mori, Survivors need some form of viable defense against it.
yeah, because we never bothered to check the true reason for slugging becoming more prominent in matches and are already working on the ways to counter that meta, while not focusig on fixing the source problem.
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@ErebusSurge said:
every single one of them needs nerfing so the game becomes playable…
0/10 ragebait
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@Jigsawbg said:
1-why there is killer like nurse in the game that break all mechanics?why she is not reworked?
2-why chucky have so broken power with 0 cd?
3-why there isnt mechanic to prevent facing 13 times from 15 games blight? Ban 1 killer for example
4- why tunneling is still in the game?why this is not reworked in such way that either survivors win or the killer?
5- why i cant see my solo Q teammates perks like in mobile version,if you dont know what to do in this game -copy/paste mobile game, their skins too
6-why every gen regression perk is killed except pop and pain?
6-why survivors items, addons and offering are still not reworked,75% from all of them are total trash
7- why there is killer who have power like pyramid head but he have 2 more powers?
8-Freddy,Myers,Onryo buffs when?
9-some killers addons reworks when?
10- skin with animation like mobile version when? Like the Nea one?
11-what was the point with the mori rework?1 guy to be slugged to dead so the last one to be found and before bleeding he get morried ?
12-why there isnt bleed buton ?
If i was working for bhvr i would make the game 10 times better
1-why there is killer like nurse in the game that break all mechanics?why she is not reworked?
because she would lose whole identity as a killer + basically only things that truly make her OP are NTH, new Predator and quad slowdowns.
2-why chucky have so broken power with 0 cd?
idk, he is just 3 high mobility killers in one with significantly lower skill floor than each one of those, just too easy to play while too highly rewarding.
3-why there isnt mechanic to prevent facing 13 times from 15 games blight? Ban 1 killer for example
because e.g. SWFs could abuse this to ban Billy/Nurse/Blight, while overall some killers would face much longer queue times.
4- why tunneling is still in the game?why this is not reworked in such way that either survivors win or the killer?
because tunneling on it's own is not a problem, problem is that, even with so many anti-tunneling perks and basekit changes to counter tunneling, average survivor player still refuses to counterplay this strategy and learn chases, even if it is not that much difficult to counter.
5- why i cant see my solo Q teammates perks like in mobile version,if you dont know what to do in this game -copy/paste mobile game, their skins too
everybody was asking for this feature long ago, idk why it isn't in the game already.
6-why every gen regression perk is killed except pop and pain?
some nerfs were justified (like Eruption) but overall, BHVR seems to not be able to pinpoint the source problem of why gen regression perks are even used (and the reason only gen related perks were always meta)
6-why survivors items, addons and offering are still not reworked,75% from all of them are total trash
honestly, i don't know the answer to this one either, medkits are still very good, toollboxes are good, tho unhealthy, rest is meh
7- why there is killer who have power like pyramid head but he have 2 more powers?
probably because there is no more inspiration for powers.
8-Freddy,Myers,Onryo buffs when?
i think Myers rework is something BHVR was talking about, no word from the other two afaik.
9-some killers addons reworks when?
this is also a long-term question, tbh watching Pyramid Head still struggling with quite possibly the worst addons in the game makes you wanna cry.
10- skin with animation like mobile version when? Like the Nea one?
there are already skins like that.
11-what was the point with the mori rework?1 guy to be slugged to dead so the last one to be found and before bleeding he get morried ?
another question i don't know the answer to.
12-why there isnt bleed buton ?
you mean something like "give up" option via insta bleedout? Honestly i still think team give up vote needs to be added, but no info on that note coming from devs.
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@hermitkermit said:
So, you see that WoO helps survivors, and because it's helpful it should be nerfed?
no, they stated that WoO is literally used as a crutch even for high hour players to make up for their refusal to learn mapa, even while in SWF
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@Rudjohns said:
It doesnt need to be infinite at all time
if all survivor remaining in the game are either in the dying state or hooked, yes
Infinite when 2 survivors are left
even though OP is most likely ragebaiting, basekit UB in any case is a big "no". If it ever gets released, it will be a big sign that the game is heading towards most unbalanced state where bad players are being rewarded for not even attempting to improve
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817325#Comment_3817325
Why did you mention me ? I didn’t even talk to you and you quote stuff I didn’t even say!
i accidentally quoted you instead of OP's reply to mine comment, apologies :D
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817177#Comment_3817177
Survivors aren’t a team. And if you’re struggling to handle four survivors in today’s DBD I have news about your skill level.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817174#Comment_3817174
It’s not cope. I don’t use slowdown (I run aura reading) and do fine. It might also help that maps are shrinking (I definitely exploit this), dead zones and unsafe loops are increasing (I exploit these), and killers received a ton of basekit buffs (I make good use of these). I’m sure those elements have something to do with it. If you’re personally struggling perhaps you should consider leaning into some of these features? They’re meant to help killers achieve that < 60% WR.
Survivors aren’t a team.
what are they then? An orchesta quartet or?
And if you’re struggling to handle four survivors in today’s DBD I have news about your skill level.
maybe you should analyze how survivors play rather than jump to instant conclusions based on the match outcome. I am on my Agi only streak with only and streak exists purely because skill of survivors i play against is...very questionable thanks to the MMR that is close to nonexistent :D
It’s not cope. I don’t use slowdown (I run aura reading) and do fine. It might also help that maps are shrinking (I definitely exploit this), dead zones and unsafe loops are increasing (I exploit these), and killers received a ton of basekit buffs (I make good use of these). I’m sure those elements have something to do with it.
again, only maps that received the relative shrinking are Haddonfield and Coldwind realm ones, Ormond received quite a minor shrink level. Deadzones discussion is vast exaggeration and many of survivors literally lack chase skills in the very amount that they run themselves into deadzones because they don't know the map they are playing on at all.
Regarding basekit buffs, like c'mon, you even gotta be joking here.
If you’re personally struggling perhaps you should consider leaning into some of these features? They’re meant to help killers achieve that < 60% WR.
as i already said, i'm not struggling, but it's all thanks to bad opponents i get thanks to a magnificient and reliable MMR system wink wink.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816508#Comment_3816508
When you only have it available at 95% you can almost never use it. I think bleeding out faster and being louder are fair trades for crawling a bit faster. Maybe it should not be available at 0% but like 30% or so?
How exactly are any of the suggestions I've listed thus far capable of being abused to bully the killer?
Every single option here still leaves the survivor unable to do anything capable of "bullying" the killer. They can't sabo, they can't pallet stun, they can't blind, they can't body block… they even have incentives to crawl out from under a pallet to try and complete key objectives. Every more productive option I've listed like totems and gens are conspicuous actions, which disables Decisive Strike so can't bully that way either, and between the slow crawling and big penalties to even start progressing objectives, let alone the attached slowdown, you're always better to recover and/or get picked up…
i don't care about such thing as "bullying" killer at all, i'm talking about overall making another basekit change that exclusively suits one side without looking at what the source of problem is.
Suicide on Hook is already rampant… Why would you prefer/provide another option for more survivors to quit the game, rather than introduce mechanisms to allow the game to keep going?
it is, but for completely different reasons.
Why not address both issues rather than discount one problem by masking it with another? Make hooking more appealing AND allow slugged players to still have agency but heavily hindered seems like a better state of health overall, does it not?
if we want to address both issues, we should first look at the very source of problem. Make hooking more appealing, wait to see how intense slugging becomes after and then, if problem with slugging still isn't fixed, advance to addressing it.
Currently you've just stated it's unhealthy, and said hooks need to be punished less. As described above, there is nothing listed here that is at all preferable for a survivor being slugged, they are significantly less efficient in every single way… and slugging players is still a perfectly valid method of slowing down the survivor team significantly with this suggestion.
gen repair, even at lower speed, is a big no, as well as gate opening while being slugged, totem cleansing too.
If you want to say slugged players shouldn't have agency and it's a problem for the game that survivors have additional actions they can take while slugged but at a heavily hindered rate, you'll need to explain what exactly it is that makes it unhealthy.
the very mindset of average survivor player is what would make it unhealthy, i've already seen quite a lot people getting mad at others for pointing out problems with slugging and it's relations with hooking. One dude posted it on twitter and mass of people kept commenting stuff like
"shouldn't bigger challenge be more fun"
"skill issue"
"we deserve to have something against toxic killers" etc.
People have been extremely spoiled and they don't want any solution that will benefit health of the game for both sides, they just want that side they play gets benefits.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/429621/lets-talk-about-hooking-vs-slugging
Slugging should be high risk reward. The problem is that the risk isn’t high enough anymore.
the risk has basically been shifted to hooking, while at the same time reward aspect of hooking has been lowered due to so many ways to actually pressure the hook and generally waste killer's time after being unhooked
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816576#Comment_3816576
If that were true, then for the past years we'd have only seen info metas on killers. But that's not the case. Without slowdown the game is still too fast paced for the killer to do much. Most killers barely lose any time in looking for survivors anyway because they already have an idea where to go thanks to their experience and the fact that survivors usually don't hide either way.
A balanced build with slowdown and info is better than just overcommitting on one thing (very few exceptions).
Survivors are your objective but that objective becomes unobtainable after a certain amount of time. Meaning, you have 2 ways to try and win.
- You do your objective faster.
- You try to buy yourself more time to do your objective.
The second option is the more common for killers because there is only so much you can do to increase your own progression speed. After all, survivors have a direct impact on this and there are some time traps that you can't avoid normally (picking up, carrying, hooking, traversing the map).
We also nerfed the best chase perks for killers, STBFL and Sloppy (for the sake of the argument I'll consider it a chase perk because chases with an injured survivor are way shorter). So that already makes point 1 harder. Meaning, you'll need to decrease any other time losses you have, which you do by using info perks. The time you can save with this approach however is finite. Even if you were to see survivors at all times, you still couldn't win the match infinitely fast. So at a certain point more info doesn't do anything anymore.
With slowdown perks nerfed, the approach to buy yourself more and more time has become less effective, which means that the hybrid playstyle of both saving time and slowing down the game is the most effective way to play.
people don't realize that slowdowns are top tier shift for every killer player that gains enough game sense to not rely on full aura builds and chase builds so often.
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@Seraphor said:
There are a lot of decent killer perks that trigger on hooks as well. As someone who plays for hooks over kills, they're incredibly useful. But there could always be more.
Personally I'd like to see a perk or perks that increase in power for each hook, but decrease in power for each sacrificed survivor. Make it strong enough to be meta and it could be one of the healthiest things for the game.
honestly, only PainRes is still a meta hooking related perk, other perks are basically not worth of the title "very good" (except maybe Pop on high mobility killers).
With that saying, the disadvantages of hooking still outweigh advantages even with PainRess still kicking in (tho it only has 4 tokens, i really think old PainRes was much better and it should've stayed that way, DMS was the perk that deserved nerf long ago)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817149#Comment_3817149
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817158#Comment_3817158
This ignores the survivor perspective, as usual. Kill rate is set to be between a win and a tie for killers. Kill rate is set to be a loss most of the time for suvivors (if you buy the "4 1v1s" framing) or between a tie and a loss (if you recognize that this is a team game).
In other words, it you are winning 50% of the time in a game that allows ties, you are winning way more than you lose, and the game is tilted in your favor. Take the Premier League, for example; of 20 teams, only 5 have a win rate better than 50%. Would you argue those top 5 teams have the same chance of winning as the bottom 5 teams? Of course not. They have an advantage.
you are comparing apples and oranges.
First of all, DbD isn't a 4v4 game, it's 1v4.
Second, killrates are more reliable for game balance because winrates are much easier to determine through them than through escape rates, which are counted on individual level. This means that escape rate has nothing with collective escape rate, but on an individual rate, because MMR points system doesn't recognize collective escapes (you can even see a clear proof on sites like Dead By Stats). A little bit of research is not something to be afraid of :)
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please, just please no more basekit additions to the survivor kit because it's absolutely the wrong way to deal with slugging as a whole, and generaly basekit additions to the kit in a way to deal with strategies better are awful direction to go along.
To understand why there is a problem with slugging being so rampant, we need to understand the reason behind it being so rampant. I made a thread on that topic:
@NarkoTri1er said:
Alright, the game went into some really crazy directions for both sides throughout last year, but right there is one rising problem that is becoming rampant: slugging meta.
Yes, slugging has become the absolute meta, but let's address why this happened afterall.
Lately we had numerous changes to hooking that pushed into a position so risky that hooking itself it considered "not worth it" anymore.
- More and more perks with "get unhooked/hooked" conditions that give some huge benefits (Deli, Wicked, DS, Resurgence, OTR, Reassurance, Babysitter, new Blood Rush, BT, We'll Make It etc.);
- Buffing of sabo strategy (sabo related aspects of toolboxes) and existence of "unhookable" perks (Boil Over, Breakout, Saboteur, Power Struggle + Flip Flop, Tenacity);
- basekit buff of hook timer of +10s per hook stage;
- hook grabs removal;
- BBQ losing it's BP bonus long ago;
- kills being a win condition rather than hooks.
On the other hand, we have slugging with much fewer risks to worry about, bypassing the strongest survivor perks in the game.
First of all, NO, this is not a call for BHVR to further implement some basekit stuff to counter slugging, this would be the worst possible mistake they could make.
Instead, there should be some way to actually make hooking beneficial for the killer again, because hooking benefits survivors way more than killer, unless killer manages to get at least 2-3 men slug before hooking.
If sometimes doesn't get done soon enough, game will just be deep in the most unhealthy slugging meta, but the thing i'm afraid about the most is that BHVR could once more make a catastrophical decision and just put some basekit slugging counter as bandain solution that will further benefit one side rather than coming up with a solution that will make game much more healthy for both sides.
Let's once think about pushing the game into the right direction, not further dragging it into amore and more unhealthy state.
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i could not even be able to tell you why i chose to main Mikaela at all because i have 0 idea why i chose her, the idea came into my mind so randomly
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/429621/lets-talk-about-hooking-vs-slugging
Once upon a time I suggested giving a temporary speed bonus after the hook like as devouring hope, so the hook allows you to get to other survivors faster and at the same time the bonus is useless if you camp
that could be one way to deal with it, but i think it doesn't solve core issue of why hooking is still much less beneficial, since "punishments" for hooking still heavily outweigh the benefits
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816988#Comment_3816988
That's actually a decent ides. Give her Aura blindness while charging and actively blinking.
it's not a braindead perk just on Nurse tho, it's braindead on every high mobility killer, it's something similar to PWYF level of unhealthy, literally rewards you for losing a chase with something that would benefit you way too much
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816571#Comment_3816571
If you constantly see survivors you don’t need gen slowdown perks at all… because you know where to go/be at all times. Survivors are your objective, not generators
if killer can destroy your team without any slowdown, i have bad news regarding collective skill level of your team
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817149#Comment_3817149
Where did you get the 50% from?
I thought at most, a skilled SWF team had around 44-46% win-rate.
Solo/duo/trio is sitting at around 39-40%as i already said, 5 outcomes possible outcomes for killer, each represents 20% portion, 60% killrate = 2l on average.
2k is considered as tie for killer MMR, meaning average match for killer ends as a tie.
The reason why this can't exactly apply to survivors too is because of asymmetric nature of the game and because surv escape rate is calculated on individual level (since MMR system counts individual escape as a win)
However, if we exclude every single foreign factor from stats (hook suicides, griefers) and if we had more strict matchmaking, these numbers for killer would go significantly. Game is basically balanced around current matchmaking system.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816945#Comment_3816945
The devs target a >60% kill rate; the game is killer sided by design.
i didn't know 50% winrate means game is killer sided
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816869#Comment_3816869
You signed up and made a first post just to bump a month old thread? You’ll fit in nicely.
ohh wait, i didn't even see the date of OP lol.
But not like this isn't just another thread intentionally made by you-know-which kind of people dwelling on forums
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@GannTM said:
Whenever I see someone say the game is killer sided, I assume they’re a survivor main and vise versa. I know a lot of people aren’t ready to hear this, but the game isn’t favored towards either side. There are just many variables that could skew the advantage towards one side in certain matches. The game isn’t balanced at all really and it affects BOTH sides.
it's only survivor sided at the highest skill levels of game, but that kind of lobbies is not even achievable through current matchmaking system (because game is basically balanced based on this kind of matchmaking and current MMR system), meaning any lost match from any side is truly just a skill issue from either side.
Any semi-decent killer player will 3-4k often, and any semi-secent survivor in a semi-decent team will have a 3-4 men escape, people just feel the neccessity to theow tantrums because they want to win, but feel like they shouldn't have to improve because "bro akshually i'm a casual player so that means game should still catter to my refusal to improve 🤓"
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@Autharia said:
The thing is SoloQ has maybe a 90% loss rate for survivor, 50% cause of teammates, 40% from sweaty killers that think they only match SWF's(the smallest % of the games population are), 7% are killer being nice or farming BP so they open the gate them self letting people leave, and the last 3% is an actual escape.
why are we acting like killers exclusively sweating in this game when most of people on both sides complaining about other side "not playing for fun" while they also bring the meta stuff into their matches?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817053#Comment_3817053
Gore posting... again.
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817053#Comment_3817053
Some nutjob was posting gore images.
thx for heads up, i can't understand what kind of fun do people really find posting that stuff at all, but afterall, looks like they don't care about consequences
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slugging for 4k was always a thing lol