NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821967#Comment_3821967
Yes, I made that comparison because the arguments against WoO can be made for gen auras. Gen auras and WoO are comparable because they both give their respective roles constant access to vital map information and limited resources/objectives. Solo or not both roles require map awareness. And while killers are solo, most survivors play solo too, meaning they also need to track what resources have been used not only by themselves but by their team. WoO is just information, it doesn't automatically make someone a better looper, just like gen auras don’t make a killer automatically better at defending gens. It's all about how you use that info.
I can further breakdown my points very simply.
"WoO doesn't require activation" Neither do gen auras.
"WoO elimates the need to memorize tiles or learn loops" Gen auras eliminates the need for killers to memorize gen spawns
"Windows and pallets aren't as important as gens" Windows and pallets are crucial for survivor to prolong chases and stay alive long enough to complete gens. Gens are just as important for killers because they are not only what slows survivor progress allowing them to get downs and kills, but also indirectly provide locations to where on the map survivors are at. Both resources directly impact each "side".
"WoO means survivors never have to guess where a window or pallet is" Gen auras mean killers never have to guess where survivors are working.
Etc. In short if you argue that WoO is a crutch that removes skill from survivor play that same logic can be applied to killers and gen auras. Both make the game easier for their respective roles without requiring deep map knowledge, which in a game with as many maps, map variations, and map changes that are constantly happening is a very good resource to have.
again, making this kind comparison really tells me you don't understand the basics of this game asymmetrical nature.
Yes, I made that comparison because the arguments against WoO can be made for gen auras. Gen auras and WoO are comparable because they both give their respective roles constant access to vital map information and limited resources/objectives. Solo or not both roles require map awareness. And while killers are solo, most survivors play solo too, meaning they also need to track what resources have been used not only by themselves but by their team. WoO is just information, it doesn't automatically make someone a better looper, just like gen auras don’t make a killer automatically better at defending gens. It's all about how you use that info.
WoO gives one player in a TEAM ROLE info on all resources on the map, gens aura give killer, a SOLO ROLE auras of all gens without letting killer know which gens are being worked on, which is a crucial counterweight to gen aura reading.
Gen auras eliminates the need for killers to memorize gen spawns
meanwhile, killers need to:
- learn survivor spawning zones;
- predict where survivors will spawn.
And additionally, aura reading for killer is much more comparable to the budget version of survivors HUD with info on what their teammates are doing, if they are in chase and their health states.
Gen auras mean killers never have to guess where survivors are working.
dude, killers don't have basekit Discordance for even solo survs working on gens.
Etc. In short if you argue that WoO is a crutch that removes skill from survivor play that same logic can be applied to killers and gen auras. Both make the game easier for their respective roles without requiring deep map knowledge, which in a game with as many maps, map variations, and map changes that are constantly happening is a very good resource to have.
if you don't understand the point from my points above, then i have some sad news about your macro knowledge.
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822113#Comment_3822113
Except there are comeback mechanics and you can play for the team when behind, also the fact that there actually is a surrender button so you can leave when its reached the point of no return
you CAN'T play for a team when behind if they are trolling, even if you play a champ that can 1v9. They will hold you hostage for 20+ minutes just because they find it fun
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822075#Comment_3822075
Honestly this is one of the biggest reasons i cant recommend to anyone right now. In no other game can someone just take away your agency for 4 minutes straight. Not to mention all the aura reading they dont understand why they are being found when they are hiding.
in League of Legends, you can get stomped by your lane opponent, your team can hard int and still, you will need 3 positive votes after 15min mark passes. You can just sit and watch opponent constantly destroying your turrets, inhibs and then nexus. Dbd is literally nothing compared to it.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822036#Comment_3822036
Dbd is labled as a party game. It was conceived as a party game. There was little intent for it to be 'competitive.'
Be that as it may be, It has grown and has attracted the competitive crowd. Enter all the problems with the game regarding balance.
There will never be balance. Because there was never intentions of it being balanced, just fun.
This is all fact. Up to you to understand and accept it. Or not! But the problems most of the forums complain about, are all due to the influx of competitive players.
i have countless arguments to disprove your statement, but this thread is not the place for those since it has nothing to do with the actual topic
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@CursedPerson said:
I think the problem is survivors keep getting mediocre mechanics during all the events but killers keep getting busted mechanics, and its really exhausting when youre already losing most of your matches.
void as a whole is a mechanic that completely dumps killer's map pressure, and only haunts are busted for killer, but the whole mode was intentionally put as a separate quite primarily so that players from both sides enjoy it as a way to goof of (jokes on you so many complaints about specifically balance literally tell you people really wanna tryhard in this mode too)
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822036#Comment_3822036
except for easy 2-taps with haunts, nothing else gives killer incentive to play this event mode
That is just a lazy way to play in my opinion. Pretty sure this "mechanic" is an exploit, and was never intended to work like this. It is like you are giving every killer the Knight's power, with a guaranteed hit, which is super-unfun to go up against.
But this one goes for both sides: Relax, and try to goof off a little more, instead of the constant tunneling/genrushing that is going on inside the event. Go out there and smash some pumpkins instead!
But this one goes for both sides: Relax, and try to goof off a little more, instead of the constant tunneling/genrushing that is going on inside the event. Go out there and smash some pumpkins instead!
that's what i'm doing, Agi only + event offering + pumpkin smashing. Going for 8 hooks and then nodding to everyone to goof off in the void
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@aterosx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822046#Comment_3822046
I understand your point, but is it really the community's fault? It is BHVR that fails to balance things fairly. There is always one side that is being overtuned- like last year survivors were the stronger ones, so the killer got overbuffed this year, and that just has to be called out
only actually dumb thing that is on killer side in this event are haunts, but they serve only as some kind of antiloop and for 2-taps (and imho they should have a cooldown between using your attack on survivor and them) but everything else is on completely opposite side, since whole void realm just cancels the most important thing killer should do, your map pressure capabilities.
There is truly little to 0 incentive for me to enter the void as the killer, BPs rewards are poor at the end, people freely do gens while i'm in the void and that's about it.
And even with all of that, i just go for goofing off in the mode
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@CLHL said:
Because last year it was so "fun" to be able to get into the Void to get free escape in the middle of a chase, especially when the portal closed right after you got inside. Where were all the complaints back then when only one side could make use of the event? In the current event there is a gimmick for each side, the Void is to enter and pick it up, that's all and that's how it should be. Exactly the same as collecting the invitation during the anniversary event.
the event was extremely abused last year and i saw no point in playing Oni, people just go into the void to force me out of power with 0 tradeoffs , rinse and repeat
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@aterosx said:
It's not just "complaining", its constructive criticism and expressing things which like not only one but several people experience. If you are someone who enjoys the event, please play it and let people express their opinions about it. A large community can never be 100% satisfied, who would have thought…
i wouldn't have problem if it was constructive criticism, but all i see is people acting like event is only fun when it's completely unbalanced towards the side they play
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@UndeddJester said:
I've seen far more killers goofing off in this event. Lots of memes and fun to be had. Seems to have brought out the better side of the community.
When it comes to serious games, the event has been great. The void actually has some semi decent pallets and loops, and often turns what would normally be a complete dead zone into something you can actually try and play... and guess what, we're still playing DBD in the void rather than basic m1 killer with no power BS.
Then the shattered vials are actually pretty strong, and allow for some very unique and fun mind games that tend to mess with strknger killers than weaker ones.
I'd say the event is great myself. However you know... everyone has got to complain. 🫠
even though i'm stating my objective point during this event, i am also fairly goofing off, bringing Agi only with event offering, getting 8 hooks and then acting like some magician in the void while transferring the energy😄
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with the community like this, i would rather recommend League of Legends
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I think you need to play the survivor side in the current event to be honest. You will be surprised to how bad it actually is.
And before you complain or argue: I have been playing both sides 50/50 during this, so don't think that I am biased.What BHVR did this year was to flip the table completely, instead of finding the sweetspot in the middle, and in short: Killers are way too strong in this event. Also, don't forget that last year, survivors had access to pre-nerf Made For This, while this year, no one is using it any more.
* Not to mention the ridiculous amount of aura reading we have today as well.except for easy 2-taps with haunts, nothing else gives killer incentive to play this event mode. Entering the void as killer is a lose-lose situation because you not only lose all the map pressure because you are completely isolated from the rest of the map, but also have strong loops inside the very void.
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430222/events-vs-community-whats-the-point
When you mix a casual party game with competitive players, you get issues. Like these. Its like trying to force oil and water together.
party games are the ones that are almost exclusively played in custom isolated lobbies, dbd isn't a party game + the very nature of DbD being a pvp game makes it competitive. I have nothing against people playing to win, i hate it when people want events and regular game to gift them free wins while handicapping opponents as much as possible
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821964#Comment_3821964
If the developers treated survivors more than second-class players and balanced the events and game properly as any other PvP game, I don't think you'd have so much negativity. The Solo queue experience is unbearable, they should instead devote their time to making the game feel fair.
if average soloQ experience is so unbearable, why are yall vouching for DC penalty removal and are advocating for giving up on hooks to stay in the game?
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820854#Comment_3820854
How is that any different from killers who 'just run to red'? Killers can always see the aura of every generator on the map, no perk required. Following your logic, you could argue that being able to see generators removes the need for killers to memorize their locations. So why is it unrealistic to expect killers to know gen locations, but survivors have to memorize every tile on every map? It feels pretty hypocritical, especially since killers don't need a perk to see gens at all times. If WoO were base-kit, then we’d have a fair comparison, but it's not—it's just a perk, and it's not even on a free character.
did you really make a comparison with killer seeing gen auras?
Killer is a solo role playing against 4 players and is extremely reliant on macro knowledge, thus seeing all gen auras is important for planning what and how you will so (you DON'T see which gens are repaired at all which is crucial thing about why gen auras are visible for killer)) and comparing it to memorizing tiles as a role played as a team of four players is wild, sometimes i really wonder if yall are even aware of how counterweighting opponent in an asym game works
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@MaddieMage said:
Zero reason to ever enter the void. In void survivors are exhausted, broken and don’t know when killer are there.
Killers know when you’re there and are undetectable and their powers work in void.
No haunts this year to release which was HUGE for gaining extra BP inside and outside of the void. The BP gain this year is pretty garbage.
Useless smoke bomb that hinders you just as much as killer
Killers can use their event power and their M1 almost simultaneously to basically instadown survivors.So again… why should survivors even play this event? I’m basically gonna do the tome so I can get the event items and that’s it.
Just a quick note to the devs: You know it WAS possible for you guys to give killers some needed buffs to make this event fun for them without completely destroying the experience for survivors correct? Just checking.
if you know how to chase, you will know why it's worth it to enter the void.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821944#Comment_3821944
- no, it is not. Its like saying that NOED is rewrding killer for not doing their objective.
- No, it is not. Its rewarding their teammates, while its actually not. Its punishing killers from rushing objectives.
Can we please stop defending unhealthy mechanics and instead concentrate of making game more healthy? If this change will result in massive kill drops from killers then killers will ned some bufs to recompensate, but this does not meanst that tunneling is anyway healthy for the game.
no, it is not. Its like saying that NOED is rewrding killer for not doing their objective.
a basekit mechanic that significantly boosts your objective progress thanks to either survivor that is "tunneled" lasting less than 20s in chase or team that does 0 gens even if teammate manages to achieve a long chase VS. a perk that has 50% chance to secure 1 kill at most if survivors are good or secure 4k if survivors are horrible. Sure.
No, it is not. Its rewarding their teammates, while its actually not. Its punishing killers from rushing objectives.
so, we are punishing killer for managing to "rush their objective" instead of trying to take a while look at situation and further encourage people to not improve at the game + not actually look for the way to reward spreading hooks more. It's ALWAYS like that because yall simply wouldn't be happy even if killer was spreading hooks at the end. I know very well how it goes
Can we please stop defending unhealthy mechanics and instead concentrate of making game more healthy? If this change will result in massive kill drops from killers then killers will ned some bufs to recompensate, but this does not meanst that tunneling is anyway healthy for the game.
- tunneling is not a mechanic, tunneling is a strategy.
- Punishing tunneling/camping/slugging further by new basekit mechanics first is NOT the way you will make the game healthy if you don't even take a look at why any of those strategies are meta. It actually the way to turn the game into even more unhealthy state by further encouraging players to play on autopilot more and more and expect wins to come by investing 0 of strategical thinking into your matches.
Just take a look at the current state of the whole hook mechanic and tell me do you see any incentive given from BHVR to spread hooks, or even hook before achieving 2+ slugs at all?
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820173#Comment_3820173
maybe, for every eliminated survivor, every repaired gen is counted as +1?
So if you killed surv at 5gen, then they got massive buff, and if they was killed at 1-2 gens then not much changed. Also, if survs was eliminated when all other had 2 hook stages, then they will start dying very fast and this buff will not do much for themthis is:
- rewarding survivors for not doing their objective
- rewarding survivors for lasting extremely short in chases
Can we please stop with asking for more ways to punish strategies and try creating a bigger picture in order to see how do good survivors manage to dump on average tunneler, while the ones that cry about them magically always lose as a team and thus make tunneling look like it's meta?
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Before mmr it was ranks.
"Oh, you're not iri 1? Then your argument is automatically invalid!" has now just turned into "You're obviously not in MY mmr so your argument is automatically invalid!"
It's literally the same
tragically, i'm still seeing people using the "Iri1 killer/surv" argument
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one really fun thing with the Haunted by Daylight event, last year when void rifts were completely a no-no for killers to enter because you were useless inside the portal (i took a break during the event because it was definitely not fun to play Oni during that time), it was considered a very fun event, but this year it's suddenly unfun lol.
Same people who think less balance = more fun cry if balance in event modes shifts towards other side
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MMR is extremely negatively impacting dbd community, but not in the regular way most people think it is.
Taking in mind how flawed it is, how soft MMR cap is so low and most of community is not even aware of it, it is negatively impacting dbd community in the way that it creates that "i'm high MMR" illusion in heads of people, making them think they are facing some strong opponents, while they are usually getting matched against people with kinda low level of macro knowledge.
If MMR system was more strict, we wouldn't have this kind of problem, but we'd have new problems:
- people would realize how tight to current MMR system balancing is tied;
- we'd have significantly longer queue times (no problem for me)
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821245#Comment_3821245
It is a way the UB/DS perk combo can be and is used is it not? 😏
It's value is questionable, and at this point it feels like a thing we have to live with... and that I suppose is where I fall... if I accept UB and DS as is, I find PT and DS also acceptable.
And let's be real, you an achieve the same effect with PT, Flip Flop and Power Struggle, and a Duo can abuse that combo ad nauseum. So again... the PT and DS combo is rather low on my list of concerns.
i think PT has much better synergy with DS than UB, or even DS+UB+Soul Guard. One heals you completely + makes you able to pick yourself off the ground or forces killer to eat DS, other just gets you up and eventually gives you limited endurance if you pair it all with Soul Guard
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
One factor is, people in different regions have different problems.
this is actually very true
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for killer, Agi is the most underrated perk that is slept on thanks by delusion of thinking Iron Grasp is better because it "slows wiggling progress by 75%", while the movement speed you get from Agi actually makes you cover larger distance than distance you would cover with Iron Grasp.
for survivor, i would vote Object of Obsession since awfully big part of community doesn't know that it mirrors killer's aura reading perks (when inside Weave range for example, you will basically have perma aura reading on killer too until you leave the range)
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i think there is no point in giving feedback anymore tbh, these breakable walls were the most unnecessary way of bandaids that could possibly come for maps
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821087#Comment_3821087
I disagree with that, to be honest. The 3 second stun barely did anything, which was one of the reasons why tunneling was out of the control for quite a while.
5 seconds was way better because it actually did its job. Nurse is the exception, but depending on the map and the amount of resources available Billy and Blight couldn't simply shrug off the stun without any consequences, which was a good thing.
it didn't do anything for majority of the community because majority of players severely lack macro knowledge,and thus knowing when, where and how to force a down if they are being chased.
5s was a terrible decision that literally terrorized weaker killers at every skill level.
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@GeneralV said:
I don't think that is needed, to be honest.
Decisive Strike has already been nerfed way too much. It has a lot of restrictions and it was unnecessarily reduced from 5 seconds to 4.
Any further nefs are overkill, imo.
DS was completely ok at 3s and the approach to buffing it to 5s at first was absolutely wrong idea since it just further punished weaker killers, while effectively doing nothing against killers like Nurse, Billy and Blight.
Now back onto the topic, since you technically ain't tunneling if you chase and down other survivor and it wouldn't be your fault if they get downed too fast, i think OTR and DS could prolly be disabled prematurely if killer takes another chase, with the exception if survivor is on ground in terms of DS.
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people complain because they need proper excuses to throw when losing a match, due to ego not letting them admit that they were...outplayed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820745#Comment_3820745
The issue is that if you take a perk that does almost nothing that can't be achieved without it, and you call that 'overpowered', that is arguing that a perk that does something more substantial would be far more overpowered.
This is an issue that happens a lot on these forums where the balancing standard keeps shifting. With every nerf to survivors, the game doesn't get more balanced, forum killers just adjust their standards and find the next most valuable perk and label that 'overpowered'. The benchmark just keeps getting pushed further down.
WoO is not overpowered, and is not even close to it. It's just that the bar for survivor perks has dropped through the floor, especially with additions like Weaving Spiders.
i am NOT calling it overpowered, i am saying that many people with lot of hours use it as nothing but a pure crutch because they don't know aby map they are playing on, they just embrace the "i see yellow, i run to yellow mentality".
God forbid somebody complains that perk that is supposed to help new players is actively being used by veteran players to serve as a bandaid for their refusal to learn maps and tiles, yall are truly insufferable when somebody actually mentions skill.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I don’t think Windows is OP. Yes it helps beginners but it almost feels like a wasted slot for more experienced Survivors.
for experienced survivor players it is a wasted perk slot yeah, but for inexperienced survivors sitting at high hours and still relying on this perk, idk what to say.
A perk that is a very good training wheel when used by beginner players, but holds you so much back from generally getting better at the game when you have so many hours invested and you still use it because you have 0 map awareness
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820124#Comment_3820124
none of these perks are problematic tho
all of these perks are problematic lol, there are even more that can be added here that are also dangerous for the game health, but are not as much used because average user can't get their value thanks to lack of skill fullfillment to do so.
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@Vegeta1345 said:
The point of Distortion was to make it harder for the killer to locate you with aura reading perks its need to be reverted to how it was. Killers have plenty of perks to counter distortion and one I like to use is called Gearhead. Add that to Barbacue and leathal well no one is hiding that easily. for Behavior to keep nerfing things for no reason needs to stop. You can even use nurse's calling as well as another way to find suriviors. They all gotta do gens to escape so locating some shouldn't be that hard in my honest opinion. Even Star Struck, Friends to the End and few others there are plenty of killer perks to counter the old distortion. Not every player out there are good at looping and running killers. It was a nice perk that got nerfed way to hard. It helps newer players get used to the flow of the game. I mean even Legion can eat through Distortion or Meyers. I can see from both sides of gameplay. I rather look for the surivior then be handed them so easily it makes more fun locating them. Seeing as they nerfed it too hard makes way to easy now. I rather not play killer much since getting kills to easy. Yhea I think distortion needs to be reverted honestly give me back that challange of finding suriviors.
well here's the catch. If killers have "so many" aura perks that burn through Distortion tokens, rendering it "useless", why are yall complaining about it being nerfed then? If it was so useless, yall would barely even carry it into your matches knowing the tokens will be burnt easily?
Oops, it's just an old "they are taking all the fun away from us" and "they are taking the only good perk away from us" type of argument over and over
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@Autharia said:
It really doesn't. It's the same as running Zanshin Tactics pre buff. A new survivor will get some use from it to learn a map and a 5k+ hour one wont really use it.
the thing is...way too many 5k+ hour players use it exclusively as a critch, regardless of playing soloQ or SWF, because they don't learn maps, they just embrace the "i see yellow, i run to yellow" mentality
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slugging is kinda the only proper way to counter it, since you can't just insta pickup due to flashlight or flashbang/firecracker save, but you can't also check surroundings because they will crawl to the nearest pallet and teammate with BGP will be able to rush in for a pallet save
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@doobiedo said:
Everything you just wrote doesnt matter. Bhvr. is not going to do what you want because they know survivors will stop playing if they are trapped in every unwinnable game in this horribly balanced game. If you want to play baby easy mode you'll have to put up with it, if Bhvr. ever actually balances both sides properly then maybe anyone that matters would give your proprosal the time of day. Its funny reading the circle jerk of killer mains comparing this game to actually balanced games
what exactly is fun anymore in ragebaiting people with those cheap "survivor unplayable, killer easy mode" punchlines? You are way too obsessed with actually trying to just straight piss people off, knowing you are exaggerating it so much rather than trying to make some rational takes.
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@fussy said:
Ah yeah, 2 guaranteed health stages against every m2 killer isn't enough. Perk is in top-10 only because people love to use "trash perks", right.
it was also a guaranteed health state against M1 killers on windows and pallets too, but average survivor player was just simply too lazy to realize that, they instead thought "ohh, i will try to use it while holding W" and then think it's weak because killer baits it out of them
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820327#Comment_3820327
No thats not what im saying. Im saying that even after you take into account the 4 vs. 1 thing one side still has an insane advantage.
yeah, because lasting 20s in chase against an M1 killer, repairing the very first gens you bump to at the start of the match and lacking most important macro skills in this game definitely means balance catters to one side.
Can we stop with this fortnite mentality where we blame everyone else for being bad players ourselves?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819877#Comment_3819877
having to bring perk B to counter perk A because there is no basic gameplay counter to perk A literally means perk A is problematic and needs to be tweaked.
This is literally describing why distortion exists at all, because the only "base kit" aura blocking is to be in a locker. And, well, nearly everything killers can do has at least one perk that reveals auras now, so you'd have to spend the entire match in a locker to counter them.
And distortion is receiving the nerf. So far, aura reading keeps getting added to more perks.
This is literally describing why distortion exists at all, because the only "base kit" aura blocking is to be in a locker. And, well, nearly everything killers can do has at least one perk that reveals auras now, so you'd have to spend the entire match in a locker to counter them.
repeat after me. Auras ONLY make it easier for killer to find a survivor, they don't auto-win chases. Basic gameplay counters to aura reading perks are good chase knowledge and knowledge, while there are NO basic gameplay counters to flashbang being thrown right below you.
Some aura reading perks deserve to be nerfed (NTH, Weave and Predator, people aren't even complaining about NTH enough) and magically only aura perks people keep using the "Distortion was the only counter" argument for are literally the perks that sould burn through the tokens anyways, meaning people defending Distortion don't even have idea what they are talking about, they just want to defend their refusal to improve in terms of chases and refusal to interact with the killer at all.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
The biggest thing is that BHVR has said a 1K is considered a win. You have killers hard pressed for the 4K thinking that's a win that they will tunnel, camp, and slug. Not only that you have content creators showing how easy it is on win streaks and face camping to get the kill or mori. The thing is kill ratesat a 4K all the time should be 50%, with 4 survivor escape rate.
It really comes down to player mentality and why they strive so hard for that 4K only to climb the ranks and get outplayed they complain. Some players are so used to content creating showing them this is how your supposed to play but in reality it's a learning curve and you need to figure it out for yourself.
people don't realize how flawed MMR system is, so hitting soft MMR deceives them into thinking "ohh, i am playing against very sweaty players, i'm at high MMR now" while not realizing they are actually playing against people of similar low-mid range skill of opponents.
This is one of the reasons why they think "omg i'm so good" when they 4k in matches like these, but somehow the opponent is "sweaty and toxic" when they lose.
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Hex: Pentimento - this perk needs some rework because it's just too oppressive at 1 token already. 30% action penalty is just not ok at all to come at such a low price.
Nowhere to Hide - too much of free info coming with the...gen kick condition.
Machine Learning - overbuffed with this patch.
Knock Out - not really OP, but needs a huge rework due to how unhealthy it is.
Predator - this rework was stupid.
Resurgence - insta 70% healing off hook is insane and not okay at all.
OTR - it gives way too much and can be abused way too easily.
Reassurance - with the base hook timer change, do i even need to explain this one?
WGLF - this patch gave it an overkill buff.
Sabo perks - gut them, kill them, they are so unhealthy and encourage a rather very unhealthy playstyle.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818361#Comment_3818361
Sure, if we deactivate Noed at end game too. Perfectly fair
yeah, because comparing one of strongest status effects that also bypasses "Exposed" status effect to a perk that will secure 1 kill at max in endgame is pretty much "reasonable"
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imho, Hexes are fine, with the exception of Pentimento and maybe Blood Favor.
Boons are mainly SWF related and are strong in SWFs, but idk, i don't think any changes need to happen for now.
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@mecca said:
As a reminder that this is the only game in existence, with MMR that killers can go on long winstreaks without ever losing. Many years of nothing but one sided balancing around horrible skilled killers while expecting survivors to play 100 percent perfectly without any mistakes. Doing gens, looping perfectly, hoping killers will make mistakes. I think the biggest problem that ruined the game is removing skill expression completely from the game so bad killers can win. This is not something you should see in games with MMR, especially. 60% is also not counting disconnections so we know for sure killrates are much higher than advertised.
As a reminder that this is the only game in existence, with MMR that killers can go on long winstreaks without ever losing.
As a reminder, also goes for the survivor side. If you are a very good survivor player with a very good SWF team with you you can do exactly the same thing, not to mention that winstreaks killer wise, there are less than 5 players in whole DbD community that actually managed huge streaks thanks to enormous macro and micro gameplay knowledge gained from playing all sorts of tournaments outside of pub matchmaking. And no, DbD is not the only game with winstreaks. But MMR in other games is way better unlike in dbd, where very skilled killer can go against team with 1+ baby survivor, or very skilled survivor team can go against baby killer. But hey, quick lobbies over accurate ones, right?
Many years of nothing but one sided balancing around horrible skilled killers while expecting survivors to play 100 percent perfectly without any mistakes
this game is literally balanced around terrible players from both sides.
I think the biggest problem that ruined the game is removing skill expression completely from the game so bad killers can win.
completely removing skill expression? I wonder who is the one who called any kind of skill expression "exploiting" so that we can see both sides being dumbed down more and more. And please stop with that hardcore us vs. them stuff.
This is not something you should see in games with MMR, especially.
again, MMR is in terrible state thanks to people who constantly complained about lobbies because they weren't instant, but the same people nowadays keep saying "akshually, we never needed MMR, this is a party game". Community is fully the one to blame.
60% is also not counting disconnections so we know for sure killrates are much higher than advertised.
60% is counting going next on hook and griefing, both of which tremendously inflate killrates.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819901#Comment_3819901
It's not a free reset though, it's a reset that costs at minimum 1, and in your scenario 3 perk slots, and takes more time than either a med kit or an altruistic heal. IMO the strongest part of this combo is the "- mental" debuff against players whose win con is to deny gameplay to their opponents
it's a reset that, along with the whole build:
- significantly extends your chase if killer decides to pick you up OR gets you 2 health states without any other teammate required to come and completely reset you by only holding M1 while on the ground for the duration of basic pick up timer.
- drastically reduce the amount of pressure efficiency for the killer.
IMO the strongest part of this combo is the "- mental" debuff against players whose win con is to deny gameplay to their opponents
this is actually what average survivor that has 0 chase knowledge, but prays to god they will manage to play a mental game on the killer and make that killer completely avoid them after they get unhooked thinks and is of course…completely incorrect.
Once your macro in the game improves, you will understand.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I mean, Oni isn't OP, even with 180 degree flicks. He has a rather big weakness in that he's very dependent on how the early game goes. Way more than any other killer, I'd say.
it's funny thing that people stand up and say "Oni is OP because you can do 180 flicks" while it's literally giving him power too early in general that will basically screw your team, regardless of the player knowing to 180 or not.
As you said, he depends on how survivors play in the early game, if he gets his power for the first time too late, game is over for him. I mean, even in tournaments, he averages at 6 stages
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819877#Comment_3819877
having to bring perk B to counter perk A because there is no basic gameplay counter to perk A literally means perk A is problematic and needs to be tweaked.
you don't have to bring lightborn to counter flashbang, it's just the most extreme example of an obvious counter to this situation you claimed is an auto-lose for killers.
also how the heck do you aggressively plot twist
you don't have to bring lightborn to counter flashbang, it's just the most extreme example of an obvious counter to this situation you claimed is an auto-lose for killers.
if you throw the flashbang almost right below the killer, they will be blinded no matter what. Looking up, looking at the wall, nothing in the aspect of basic gameplay works + it's the way to still be able to do locker saves, even with the fact that it was removed for flashlights.
also how the heck do you aggressively plot twist
it is used in aggressive anti-tunneling builds, after forcing initial OTR hit, you can Plot Twist to make killer be able to do only one of two things, either pick you up and eat DS or they will be forced to slug you and let you get a free reset. It's excellent for both offensive and defensive usage.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819774#Comment_3819774
Flashbang: killer brings lightborn, now survivor had a dead perk slot and wasted time following the killer for a flashbang
Plot Twist + DS: ignore the unhooked survivor and suddenly they have 1 dead perk slot and 1 perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted.
Old FTP + BU: it was kinda BS tbh, but you could always turn around and hit the person who was following you, and I once had a game where a random duo saved me from a tunneler like 4 times and the knight rage quit so on the other hand, lol
WGLF: lol
BGP: lol
Flashbang: killer brings lightborn, now survivor had a dead perk slot and wasted time following the killer for a flashbang
having to bring perk B to counter perk A because there is no basic gameplay counter to perk A literally means perk A is problematic and needs to be tweaked.
Plot Twist + DS: ignore the unhooked survivor and suddenly they have 1 dead perk slot and 1 perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted.
1. Anti-tunneling perks are NOT ONLY USED AS A COUNTER TO TUNNELING. Both their defensive and offensive way of usage are highly effective, and if killer doesn't chase you after you've been unhooked, that does NOT mean you wasted perk slots.
2. "and one perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted"...what even is this take? People using these builds literally always bring medkits too and they will literally have 2 completely free self resets and will cancel killer's pressure + lead to lose-lose situations easily. Bringing a syringe additionally brings even higher overkill.
One thing can definitely noticed. Majority of this game's playerbase has not even a close idea of how many stuff they can use is powerful because those perks are locked behind a higher skill floor than other "simpler" perks. That's why huge chunk of the strongest survivors perks and strategies are the ones extremely slept on by an average survivor player, or it depends on region (many EU players are very well aware of powers of these, while e.g. many NA players don't have even a close idea of how strong they are)
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@ratcoffee said:
what's the lose-lose?
a situation where whatever decision killer makes to do with the survivor, it's technically the wrong decision that ends up wasting killer's time.
Examples:
Flashbang: no matter if you look at the wall, if flashbang is dropped lowkey right below you, you are getting blinded anyways.
Plot Twist + DS: killer wants to pick you up? They eat up the DS, you get free time to run to a nearby safe tile. Killer decides to slug you because they are aware of DS? You will reset back to healthy state and boom, killer again at loss
Old FTP + BU: Killer slugs? Bad decision. Killer doesn't slug? You get to use combo mid pickup animation and survivor gets up with free endurance.
WGLF: similar to old FTP+BU when combined with MFT
BGP: killer picks up survivor instantly? Free save.
Killer slugs in order to check if someone wants to save? Free save because you can jump in for a save quickly even if you are significantly distanced from a survivor that is about to be picked up.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819654#Comment_3819654
Killers when skill expression requires something other than throwing their mouse across the room: "Get rid of it"
me when i think everythingg in life is so simple and straightforward
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@jajay119 said:
^You could just hook the person straight away and this wouldn’t be an issue…. Let that sink in.
….
LOVING that this thread is finally getting us to a place where we are ready to openly admit slugging is done because it’s optimal gameplay, not for ‘x,y or z’ imaginary excuse. IMO slugging is a rampant nightmare at then moment and any counter to it is welcome. If there is someone waiting RIGHT there to flashlight save etc and you can get a down then that’s just logical, it’s not slugging. It’s fair play - you as a survivor chose to put yourself in that situation and you paid the price for it. But we we should not be promoting leaving players on the ground for extended periods of time for ‘pressure’. If this perk is countering that then good.- WGLF is abused for other purposes other than "slugging" at it's current state, which is overtuned, especially when combined with perks like FTP or MFT.
- since slugging is now main meta and vast majority of most vocal people in this community has completely linear view of metas, without thinking "ohh, but why is strategy X becoming meta?", let me tell you one thing. When anti-slugging becomes main meta, less people will run anti-tunneling builds, which will lead to hard tunneling becoming main meta again, and with every constant anti slugging ←→ anti tunneling meta shift, this is going to be the case until the core problem in this game is addressed. That problem are HOOKS. There is no more a proper incentive for killers to not only spread hooks, but also hook people. I don't want to repeat the whole story behind hooking and spreading hooks being completely discouraged by the game, and there has to be the way to encourage hooking and spreading hooks again. Unfortunately, this vocal part of the community doesn't care about problems getting fixed for both sides because they look at the balance issues in this game through rose-tinted glasses for the side they main.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819082#Comment_3819082
We are complaining about survivor getting "tunneled out at 5 gens"
Are we though? Cause every time that get brought up it's "tunneling out at 5 gens is a tactical choice."
Either way it's a 3v1 and doesn't change the way I play, 5 gens still need to get done.i'm just talking about what the most vocal part of community complains about