NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
About
- Username
- NarkoTri1er
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
also, when i play Oni, many times when i hit a dropped pallet with Demon Strike during dash, i somehow don't even hit a survivor that just started the vault, but only break the pallet
-
people don't really want a nerf in literal meaning. People want this perk still to be very friendly for people learning tiles, but there are way too many people that actually play survivor a lot and still completely depend on this perk (even when they are in SWF)
-
@rexhornet said:
This patch has been a really problematic one for survivors with the Distortion nerf and worst part is the increase of slugging ti get the end game mori.
First of all, I’m a killer main, dont get me wrong, but even I think its annoying to slug 1 or more to go find the last survivor, its boring. But that didnt stand for others killer.
The problem here is the killer choose to slug and they are not being punish for slugging.So here its my idea to counter this playstyle.
- Basekit Unbreakable: now will be a seperate bar from the recover bar, it will goes up automatically after X amount of time, unlimited use. After getting up by this way you get the Endurance status for 30s. The bar will slowdown if another survivor come close like self unhook mechanic.
- If there are only 2 survivors left, and one being down by killer and slug, the gen will slowly repair itself and after X amount of time the speed will increase and block killer from kicking it.
- Adding control to give survivor method to sacrifice themself while in the dying state CAUSE by the killer. Sacrifice themself in this way will award the player with greate amount of bloodpoint and will not reward the killer for eliminate the said survivor.
- If the survivor sacrifice themself from the dying state and there are only 1 survivor left in the trial, all gen auto complete and there will be 2 hatch spawn in the match and the gate will slowly open itself and stopped at 99%.
- If the killer decide to slug more, all of the slug survivors can sacrifice themslelf and create more hatch.
I hope they will read this and make some change, i’m a killer main and I love endgame mori but it need to be work my ass down for that cherry on top not slugging.
slugging for 4k was always a thing, it's just that you have illusion slugging for mori is more of a thing because you are paying more attention to it
-
alr now honestly, even though i have been enjoying the event at first, it's just insufferable now. In about 90% of my matches, everybody barely even uses event objectives unless it's for optimizing their strategy to win, while i am always like some clown kicking pumpkins, opening portals, entering the void and actually doing event objectives. It really gets boring after so many matches where people on both sides just care about two things and nothing else: hook, kill, repair gens, leave.
My rant after having 6 back to back matches where i had around 70k+ points in each, while everybody else has less than 25k
-
honestly, i don't really see that many Nurses and Blights at all. Actually, in my last 20 matches over few days, i had only 1 Blight and no Nurses at all
-
@RakimSockem said:
The biggest issue with DBD events are the DBD playerbase tbh.
It's crazy to me that people will go to an entirely separate game mode specifically designed to get challenges done and not interfere with regular lobbies and still slug you for 4 minutes and W+S over your body until they feel like using their Mori.
Even with the broken Ghost ability killers get, it would be fine if people didn't play like jerks. (And I already know the defenders of jerk behavior will come into the comments with the "people can play how they want since they paid for the game" crap but it doesn't make the behavior any more justified
problem are both sides, not just one. I play killer, survivors barely focus event objectives even when i give them signs to go for it.
I play surv, my teammates suddenly play the way they should be playing regular soloQ (but they don't) and focus gens while barely even kicking the pumpkins and using void exclusively to siphon killer's map pressure.
I think main problem with events is that game still revolves around gens and hooks as main objectives. We need some new kind of main objectives that are exclusive to events and can actually make event queues much more enjoyable
-
@kirbypower74 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824263#Comment_3824263
don't worry, I for one am glad you don't work there either, the balancing there makes 0 sense. "Survivors can maybe lose chase in a smoke bomb while killers can insta down with no repercussions" Sounds balanced to me :D
what is the most important aspect of killer's gameplay, chase or map pressure, quick?
-
@Efrost said:
Its beyond crazy the benefits the killers get in that realm to the survivors smoke bomb. Looking past the Exhausted and broken and the fact that killers gain undetectable and can still use all powers. But them getting a audio AND visual que that shows you are still in there is insane. I dont understand how they think that's remotely balanced. It removed all incentive to use the feature because the killers gains so much from it and the survivor loses everything. Cant even try to do any sort of interesting play with the smoke bombs or the teleports as the killers just has to see if they get the audio que or the icon next to the name. They really botched it with this one.
- smoke bombs that are actually very powerful
- killer being in a zone with no objectives where every 1s wasted equals to 1s per survivor on a gen
- strong tiles in void that make up for exhausted status effect
Can yall please ever try to understand core aspects of each side and what is the most important thing to do as each side before making such comments?
-
@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824121#Comment_3824121
Hard tunneling doesn't get stomped by good players, though. Obviously tunneling is more dominant when a survivor is easy pickings and can be removed from the game at 5 gens, but tunneling a player to death before engaging anyone else is meta across the board and there's no better killer strat even in comp play, because achieving the 3v1 ASAP is the most consistent way to shift match momentum in the killer's favor, whether it's a win-more strat or it's the only option the killer has.
The only time tunneling from the start is a bad idea for the killer is when the survivor they're trying to tunnel is an extremely strong looper. In that case, tunneling isn't the problem, it's that they have the wrong target. And if each one of the four survivors are a bad idea for the killer to tunnel, then the killer is just outmatched and should lose. If a killer gets stomped by counter-tunneling, then they get stomped no matter what they do… exceptions made if every survivor is running every anti-tunnel perk on the book, but that situation doesn't realistically happen. It takes very on-point teamwork to counter tunneling long enough to matter, not just skill but strong communication and game sense (for when it's worthwhile to take a hit vs when it's just wasting time and doesn't buy the looper anything so you should be on gens.) Frequently I see survivors' attempts to counter tunneling work in the killer's favor.
That said, tunneling is not an easy issue to address (because what's overkill against bad survivors is mandatory against good ones and any one-size solution on this is going to screw over some bracket of the game), and not the purpose of this thread anyway. My point was that I think it's reasonable to give survivors a big gen boost for a 3v1 at 5 gens because they are 99.999% of the time guaranteed lost and have no incentive to try - especially if that boost falls off as gens are completed. It's not going to suddenly make survivors start winning these games with any regularity. I almost never see more than 2 full gens get completed in a 3v1 game; the loop of chase-hook-heal breaks down quite quickly as resources are expended, assuming the looper could loop long enough in the first place. And for most players, who are solos, their teammates falling over to a single poke or ragequitting immediately is scarcely their fault for 'being bad', and I'd argue that having games routinely be completely screwed so early, through no participation of your own, on is part of what makes this game unhealthy, alongside a flawed matchmaking system and toxic/antagonistic player culture. And I think it's unhealthy that killers are incentivized to chase this unwinnable game state - which is not an issue with killers, but rather an issue with game design, that the optimal strategy is not very engaging to play against.
Giving 3v1 survivors gen speed at 5 gens doesn't badly affect high level gameplay because 3v1 5-gens don't happen against the survivors where killers actually need to tunnel to win. I guess I just don't see the issue. Inefficient players will still lose, the killer still has a huge advantage and boosted gen speed is only going to really matter at less than 3 gens remaining (whereupon I don't want to give any significant boosts), but they at least get the illusion of being able to progress the match to a competitive point. The point is to get survivors in lost games out of lockers and onto gens, where the killer can actually find them - if this comes with nerfs to stealth, as proposed, this feels not only balanced to me, but more QoL to the killer than punishing them.
yes it does get stomped because you can rarely get hard tunneling to work. You'd need to find your first chase very quick, chased survivor would have to make a serious mistake in chase and get downed very fast so that they could be immediately tunneled off hook, but even then you have to be careful. Team will probably greed tunneled teammate on hook to buy themselves 60s of not having to worry about teammate they are about to unhook go on the 3rd hook and die. There are way too many variables for hard tunneling to make it work against strong teams.
-
@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824218#Comment_3824218
And now
Get power and can abuse it in the void
Having a ghost who can two tap a survivor to get him down instantly
Having a indicator of who are in the void
Yeah, why playing a role where the event just give more power to one, and give just a big smoke bomb where the two team are blinded in the same times and stopping some perk to work in this?and now:
- having much stronger tiles in the void to make same killers waste their powers again in the void while vacuuming pressure inside it;
- losing significant amount of map pressure for the sake of getting haunt is not really a good thing to do;
- even with indicator in the void, survivor inside still has the advantage.
And i simply don't care about it because i locked in to play separate queue meant to be for having fun with event objectives
-
@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824217#Comment_3824217
yes the void is so survivor friendly, to recap
survivors are broken and exhausted can’t use perks, can’t heal have to wait 3 seconds to enter and 3 seconds to transfer energy just to get a smoke grendade that hinders them.
killers, can use powers, can use perks, undetectable, instantly enter and exit, get a haunting to attack youjust Like perks are survivor sided I guess. Like survivor gets 5% haste for 0.5 seconds then broken for 40 seconds
Where as killer gets 6 second aura reveal if you escape a chase or 8 second aura reveal for all good skill checks..
with how strong tiles in void is, even with broken and exhausted status effects, you can hold a long chase against the killer.
Oops, you aren't good in chases? Your fault tbh
-
Pentimento, screw that perk and 30% penalty to gen repair fr
-
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430505/honest-question-about-recent-dbd-events
The game isnt actually swf sided anymore. In high mmr 4 man swf escape rate was slightly under 50% the last time statistics were given.
@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824166#Comment_3824166
Oof so the game is just overall tipping killer sided even at the high mmr… So do you think the Dev's are purposefully tilting the scales that direction?
yo guys, the "high MMR" you are talking about can be reached as a completely new player after ~100h of playing the game as either side, hope you are aware of that next time you lose against "high MMR" survivors or "high MMR" killer that turn out to have <500h into the game
-
@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823727#Comment_3823727
Why the killer gain the indetectable effect, have power and can have an information of who is in the void, since the survivor are exhausted, broken (if they are injuried) in the void?
I can understand the broken effect, survivor can go in the void just for a safe healing, but why the exhausted effect since the killer can use his own power?because last year you could basically use the void to:
- force Oni out of power or make him waste it;
- render Legion completely useless because you can make them never be able to get 5th hit or simply make them lose their power by making everyone get into the void until their power runs out
- turn Huntress into an 4.4 M1 killer
- turn Nurse into an M1 killer slower than survivors
- all in all, turn every killer into a powerless M1 killer with different base movement speeds
Even with the buff for killers inside the void, it is still much more beneficial for survivors if killer enters the void, tho since event queue is separated from normal queue, i think nobody should care, just go and have fun with event objectives
-
even with all of those "advantages" killer has in the void, here are survivor advantages even if we take in mind broken and exhausted status effects while inside of it:
- there are spots where killer can't even hit you;
- void is a huge vacuum for killer's map pressure because there are no objectives inside of it, meaning forcing killer into the void is beneficial for you
- you have strong tiles in the void as survivor.
And no matter the fact that there are significantly more advantages in the void for survivors, just play the event queue for the sake of event objectives and having fun with them. Even though i know void is just a map pressure vacuum for me when i play killer, i still go regularly inside it.
And tbh, i'm having even more fun as survivor, since those smoke bombs are the most fun thing this event has brought
-
so out of all aura reading perks you are complaining about BBQ, quite literally the healthiest aura reading perk in the game
-
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824052#Comment_3824052
You know that you're actually onto something here?
If DS is a perk you have to run if you want to not get tunneled, it shouldn't be a paid one.
it's funny how it's always gonna be "i shouldn't have to run a perk hidden behind the paywall" (you had it so many times in shrine +you don't necessarily even have to run anti-tunneling perks to counter tunneling) but then there will always be money ready to be smacked out of wallets for Sable skins, rift passes and various cosmetics in general
-
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824124#Comment_3824124
because entering the rift will just make you more likely to lose. (Maybe unless you're going in there to extend a chase.) And your teammates must hate you refusing to do gens.
aren't we playing event queue instead of normal one? Isn't the whole point of event queue to actually have fun with event objectives, or it is suddenly okay to sweat?
-
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430480/event-solo-que-trial-testing
You must be at super low mmr or something facing baby killers. Happy for you though.
i understand that it's hard to swallow pill that not every survivor player is bad at the game to the point that they have to complain about everything while not looking at their own mistakes
@Doxie said:
So I was bored today and decided to do some solo que testing plus work on challenges in the Tome. I was shocked at the results. Basically I focused mainly on challenges, avoiding the killer, gens just enough to open rifts to the void and smashing pumpkins. No saving (unless I was absolutely sure killer was not around), just avoid, pumpkins gens to get crystals and avoid playing for hatch.
I couldn't believe one how many times I survived compared to normal survivor play and even when I got caught 6 out 10 times my score was higher than the killer.
I hate this game play but honestly... This is what BHVR has given survivors...gotta take it. Load up with a med kit… I was running speed burst (with a smoke bomb) got me out of most chases with an escape, vigil, second wind and blood rush. Hope that helps un-frustate a lot of survivors in this event
that's basically how i play too, focus on pumpkin smashing, going for smoke bombs, using them during chase, repairing gens just as much as needed to fill the void energy bar, go and transfer it, rinse and repeat.
Tha main problem is that my teammates almost never enter rift at all lol, they are contrary to average regular soloQ players and in this mode they just focus on doing gens
-
@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823671#Comment_3823671
I don't have much to say other than that I really like the sound of this. I think that the gen speed increase could increase semi-exponentially instead of at a flat rate, so that the boost is nonexistent with 3 survivors and 1 gen left (as this is a very doable situation and the killer is arguably punished for hooking instead of slugging by any amount of gen speed boost), but very high with 3 survivors and 5 gens left (as this situation is virtually unbeatable as it stands and is one of the reasons why hard tunneling is so effective), but apart from that I think this is excellently thought out and the status effects are perfectly tailored to the evolving flow of the match.
hard tunneling (or how people love to call it "tunneling at 5 gens) is very effective because first player gets found extremely quickly and gets 2-tapped in the very first chase and/or teammates barely touched gens at all. It's not meta because it's strong, it's a strategy that stomps bad players, while being stomped by good players.
Asking for any kind of further punishment for a killer that most literally just outplayed survivors that were very bad will never be a solution to anything, it will just make the game more unhealthy
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823873#Comment_3823873
Right. So it's a nerf to tunnelling to compensate for the gen time increase's buff to tunnelling.
taking in mind that yall can't even last 30s in chases and are allergic to gens, i doubt that every truly situational strategy that is supposed to work only in rare cases against people that have at least some decent skill in this game, tunneling will still be possible.
And i definitely named tunneling as only one of the reasons, but since previous essays didn't manage to be useful in explaining the point to you, i doubt anything will :D
It's just funny when you see people complain about various basic things in the game, but at the same time intentionally refuse to learn how to use aspects of the game in their favor.
-
- Last less than 30s in chase
- Have a highly inefficient team that doesn't touch gens even when you last long in the chase
- Have players massively refuse to learn counterplay to tunneling and rather decide to give up every time they see a killer tunneling
- surprised pikachu face when killers are tunneling because survivors make it look like meta strategy
-
honestly, haunts are busted, but really nothing compared to the whole void realm being a vacuum for map pressure combined with smoke bombs that are actually also brutally good
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823523#Comment_3823523
Again: whatever you are talking about, it's not the reality of DBD.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823549#Comment_3823549
Gen times would need to have an added 21-30s to generators, not 10s.
It's never gonna be 30 seconds -unless the killer camps-. If the killer just continues playing as normal, those 10 seconds will not come into play. It is still in the survivors' best interest to get that unhook as fast as possible.
Again: whatever you are talking about, it's not the reality of DBD.
it's not the reality of dbd at average skill level*
It's never gonna be 30 seconds -unless the killer camps-. If the killer just continues playing as normal, those 10 seconds will not come into play. It is still in the survivors' best interest to get that unhook as fast as possible.
"get that unhook as fast as possible"
that is exactly how:
-magnificient tunneling at 5 gens happens, becomes fully profitable and wins the match for killer right at the start;
-killer's map pressure goes stonks up.
And then we ask ourselves why are pub matches so miserable? Thinking unhooking asap is the best decisions for survivors is literally one of reasons why
-
@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823285#Comment_3823285
75% 4k rate.
90% win rate if you include the games where they got 3 kills.
Quite a lot of the killers had 100% 4k rates even with hooking.
Even if you don't consider a 3k to be a killer win, a 75% win rate is insane by the standards of any game. Yes, including this one.
75% 4k rate when these are included:
- terrible MMR system;
- terribly playerbase mentality that consists of very high give up rate in soloQ (3v1 in early game is catastrophical for most teams), lot of players playing in very selfish manners and lot of players griefing
I haven't played any other game where matchmaking is this much bad and community plays the game in a worse way
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823412#Comment_3823412
because killer literally won't be aware than there will be 3 survivors doing gens instead of two for the much longer duration than they would expect, which is a tremendous impact on killer's further decision making + puts the killer into a more disadvantageous position because in this case, hook doesn't generate pressure on survivors, but on the killer instead.
You are way too far lost in theory. Stop trying to be academic about this, stop trying to think up elaborate schemes, and think about the difference this -actually- makes in practical scenarios. 'Killer won't be aware' is not an actual consequence for the game, least of all with all of you blithering about how you are anticipating the exact scenario you say killers can't anticipate.
'Hook doesn't generate pressure on survivors'
If they are leaving that survivor on the hook, that is a benefit to YOU. That is one less survivor you need to worry about for an extended period of time. That is more pressure for you when they finally DO go for the rescue. That is more room to snowball.
You are starting from your conclusion and then arguing backwards from there, as opposed to looking at the situation and constructing a conclusion from that.
Again: if you don't camp or tunnel, this change makes no difference to you.
they can only see where the slugged survivor is and they will have to think about much more factors when having a slugged survivor rather than one hooked that is about to get unhooked.
Yes, and as long as they can see that survivor laying on the ground, they know that the survivor hasn't been picked up, don't they?
'They will have to think about much more factors' is weasel-wording. And these exact same factors come into play once the survivor is on the hook, so it doesn't make a difference.
downing a survivor and immediately going for the next target wastes much less effective time than downing survivor, picking them up, taking them to a hook, hooking them and then going for the next target.
Again, the ten bonus seconds of hang time did not change this. This is almost as old as the game itself.
you still seem not to understand how much wasting as much of killer's time actually means in this game.
Except no one's 'wasting the killer's time'. You're the one complaining about 10 extra seconds of hang time and then opting to instead take on 120 extra seconds. The only one wasting killer's time here is you.
winstreaks made by top 0.1% of killer players across all servers who forged their macro and micro skills through various tournaments and have the most perfect kind of game sense against pub survivors to prove how many mistakes average survivors make and how flawed MMR system is. Not to talk about how many actually mid killer players will act like they are on a winstreak while literally searching an excuses for matches lost between those won.
It's literally a pure MMR flaw thing, not a balance thing.
Killer anecdata > Evidence. As always.
sorry for not having black & white shallow picture of the game and actually taking my time to give a deeper explanation of such a complex aspect of this game that is macro :D
-
if you are using Nvidia GPU, check Nvidia control panel > Manage 3D settings > Program Settings > Select Dead by Daylight from the programs list > Select high-performance Nvidia processor
-
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823434#Comment_3823434
Sorry for using hyperbole. If I had known you would focus on it without addressing the actual point I was making I wouldn't have used it
the actual point is that in pubs, anyone who loses is actually bad yes.
But there is a clear way to filter out actual balance arguments from those just made by people who fail at macro aspects, like:
- Omg I lost because survivors were constantly hiding and genrushing (when nobody even brings toolboxes nor gen related perks, obviously a sign that killer failed to put some early game pressure and was likely overextending chases/not being able to realize which gens to pressure);
- Omg i lost because killer tunneled/ 4-men slugged at 5 gens (literally most obvious sign your team was utterly bad)
-
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823355#Comment_3823355
Riiight. When survivors struggle it's because all survivors are bad, when some killers struggle it's because the game is balanced against killers 🙂🙂🙂
when did i say all survivors are bad?
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823292#Comment_3823292
it literally works no matter if killer camps or not :)
Sorry, what impact does 'increased urgency to leave the hook' have on a killer who is leaving the hook immediately anyway?
With slugging, you don't get notified that killer is going to carry someone
Do you think survivors are just sitting there with question marks over their head when you do not pick them up for an extended period of time? Remember, they can see when you DON'T pick up, too.
And yeah, you are immediately setting pressure on the next target. But in that case, you are once again talking about the time from pick-up to hook, which did not get any changes at all.
And it's hardly enough to compensate for having an additional 50-120 seconds of 'hook time', if that is as big of a deal as you've been insisting it is.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823355#Comment_3823355
If this is not emblematic of DBD's biggest issue.
Making a big argument about survivors just being plain bad, while simultaneously arguing that there's some kind of pressure on killers to min-max, to meta-slave, to cut every corner they can and exploit every loophole, bug, glitch, everything, in order to chase those wins.
100+ winstreaks on killers, 1000+ winstreaks on killers, killer winstreaks without perks, killer winstreaks while being AFK for the first half a minute, that's all fine, but a survivor finishes a gen while another survivor is on the hook because of ten seconds that were added to compensate for an undeserved buff to camping/tunnelling: 'Well now the game is just unfair to killers'.
Overall average loss rate of 36% and apparently that's still too high for the common forum killer.
Sorry, what impact does 'increased urgency to leave the hook' have on a killer who is leaving the hook immediately anyway?
because killer literally won't be aware than there will be 3 survivors doing gens instead of two for the much longer duration than they would expect, which is a tremendous impact on killer's further decision making + puts the killer into a more disadvantageous position because in this case, hook doesn't generate pressure on survivors, but on the killer instead.
You seem to fail to realize that killer who immediately leaves the hook literally expects one person to go for the unhook earlier while they can be able to pressure the two remaining survivors on gens (i don't even know how many times do i have to say this).
Do you think survivors are just sitting there with question marks over their head when you do not pick them up for an extended period of time? Remember, they can see when you DON'T pick up, too.
they can only see where the slugged survivor is and they will have to think about much more factors when having a slugged survivor rather than one hooked that is about to get unhooked.
And yeah, you are immediately setting pressure on the next target. But in that case, you are once again talking about the time from pick-up to hook, which did not get any changes at all.
downing a survivor and immediately going for the next target wastes much less effective time than downing survivor, picking them up, taking them to a hook, hooking them and then going for the next target.
And it's hardly enough to compensate for having an additional 50-120 seconds of 'hook time', if that is as big of a deal as you've been insisting it is.
you still seem not to understand how much wasting as much of killer's time actually means in this game.
100+ winstreaks on killers, 1000+ winstreaks on killers, killer winstreaks without perks, killer winstreaks while being AFK for the first half a minute, that's all fine, but a survivor finishes a gen while another survivor is on the hook because of ten seconds that were added to compensate for an undeserved buff to camping/tunnelling: 'Well now the game is just unfair to killers'.
winstreaks made by top 0.1% of killer players across all servers who forged their macro and micro skills through various tournaments and have the most perfect kind of game sense against pub survivors to prove how many mistakes average survivors make and how flawed MMR system is. Not to talk about how many actually mid killer players will act like they are on a winstreak while literally searching an excuses for matches lost between those won.
It's literally a pure MMR flaw thing, not a balance thing.
-
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823314#Comment_3823314
Feel free to tell that to the people who think hooking is an auto lose 🤷♂️ you said it not me
If "I can win without perks" is, as you said, a skill gap thing, surely other scenarios, such as "I can't win the way the devs designed the game and must resort to cheese strats" fall into that same category
let me be clear one more time.
Average survivor severely lacks macro knowledge.
Average survivor player doesn't know how to get use of a hooked player for the advantage of their team over killer.
On the same side, average killer player will look for the most effective ways to win the game.
Tunneling "at 5 gens" is severe skill issue on survivor side and actually only smart and effective application of tunneling on killer's side if survivors actually know how to play the game.
So then, should we balance the game around how good players perform against bad players? Should we really make this game impossible to play as one side at actual high skill levels because average player on other side still can't manage to counter such strat as tunneling even after 8 years?
-
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823198#Comment_3823198
You had me until the last sentence. Before deciding [waves hands in the general direction of this forum and a large % of the player base's attitude] wasn't worth it and uninstalling probably for good I got ~100 3+k streak on Wraith only going for hooks and trying to 12 hook as often as possible. It's still technically going, come to mention it. Hooking is definitely still decently strong. If anything, I would have come to the conclusion "slugging shouldn't be this strong"
You had me until the last sentence. Before deciding [waves hands in the general direction of this forum and a large % of the player base's attitude] wasn't worth it and uninstalling probably for good I got ~100 3+k streak on Wraith only going for hooks and trying to 12 hook as often as possible. It's still technically going, come to mention it. Hooking is definitely still decently strong. If anything, I would have come to the conclusion "slugging shouldn't be this strong"
your argument is based on two things:
- the skill gap between you and average person that reached soft MMR cap (you kept improving, but you will still be matched with people between soft and hard MMR cap no matter what, and amount of people closer to soft MMR cap is much bigger)
- not analyzing how your opponents play and what mistakes they make (and average pub survivors makes awfully lot of mistakes due to low macro knowledge) and then rushing to making a "black and white" conclusion that…hooking is still very strong.
I managed to get winstreaks with Agi only in my loadout as Oni. Does it mean killers are so strong that you can play them perkless and win? No, it means that MMR system is extremely flawed, because when you first reach soft MMR cap, you will be matched with people around 1600 MMR score, but at the same time if you keep improving yourself and increase your MMR score, you will still be matched with people around 1600 MMR score.
That's not balance related, that's skill gap related.
-
they are very good thing for shaking the killer off during the chase and other cases but no thanks, in current state they are an overkill to be a permanent feature
-
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
This recently happened to me in my previous match, and I was on the ground as the final survivor being bled out for what felt like eternity. I felt like I was being held hostage at that point because it felt like it was that long to finally bleed me out, it took at least around 10 minutes without picking me up.
This has to be bannable at this point if people have that much time to do this type of stuff, I don't care if the game is 'progressing', this wasted so much of my time and for what? I doubt anyone wants to be bled out for that long, just let me move on.
I could barely crawl to get away because the killer spamming it stops your movement as well, so I was stuck with them doing that to me the entire fricking time.
Can we please add some form of a auto-die button as the final survivor to prevent situations like this from happening again? This was so ridiculous, after 8 years we still lack anything new to make bleeding out less of a struggle to deal with, and now we have to deal with killers being petty as hell by increasing the timer.
(For those who don't understand, if you press the mori button, it also stops the red bar from progressing for some reason, spamming it stops it almost entirely, it still goes, but extremely slowly).
be aware that you have the full right to report killers doing this for holding the game hostage, because they are massively able to extend the initial 4min bleedout timer. Hope BHVR does something about it asap
-
@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823267#Comment_3823267
Clearly you don't play killer. As soon as anyone goes on a hook at lest 1-2 people have to hop off gens cause of the 3 possibilities that could happen.
1 Killer is proxy camping needing 2 people to save.
2 killer quick spots someone and starts chase making 2 leave gens.
3 killer leaves hook to apply pressure and kicks 1-2 gens and chases 1 person by the time the save happens.If the save dosnt happen before the first stage ends its kill on next for that player.
- you don't have to hop off the gen instantly for the save. If you do, you are just contributing to killer's map pressure.
- as soon as you see killer picking up survivor on the HUD, you know that you have the first free window for repairing gens completely safely. If killer carries survivor for 10s, you have 30s worth of total time on all gens you have been sitting on while killer was carrying survivor to a hook. Each second of wasted killer's time is worth 3 seconds of survivor time when one is on hook.
- If killer chases one person upon finding them after a survivor is hooked, that is still beneficial, since now you have almost the whole hook stage worth of time as the 2 survivors remaining on gens to do. Since hook stages are now 70s, minus approx 10s it takes to reach hook and unhook, you have 60s x 2 = 120s worth of gen time, which is two gens at 2/3 progress for the price of one hook state. If you come for unhook right after killer starts chasing another survivor congrats, you've managed to halve that progress to 60s worth of gen time per hook state since now you have only one survivor at gens and you risking potential arrival of killer to a hook to trade way too early.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823267#Comment_3823267
that is why those 10 seconds is somewhat big deal because it puts urgency on killer to move away from hooks over urgency for survivor to get to the hook.
But again, this is just talking about how this is hindering camping. And this change was specifically made to counterbalance the buff camping got when gens got their timers increased.
it results in killer being punished for hooking which is where this slugging gameplay is starting to occur. they're getting negative pressure for hooking.
But the question is, if these 10 extra seconds are such a massive problem and such a complete knee-cap for the killer's pressure, why are they then choosing a method that adds another 50-170 seconds on top of that?
Surely slugging produces even less pressure, then?
But again, this is just talking about how this is hindering camping. And this change was specifically made to counterbalance the buff camping got when gens got their timers increased.
it literally works no matter if killer camps or not :)
But the question is, if these 10 extra seconds are such a massive problem and such a complete knee-cap for the killer's pressure, why are they then choosing a method that adds another 50-170 seconds on top of that?
Surely slugging produces even less pressure, then?
with slugging, you don't get notified that killer is going to carry someone, meaning first vital info for you is gone, while also not having that safe time gap while killer is carrying a survivor to hook because you are aware they will instantly go and hunt another survivor. Killer wastes no time while putting more pressure on you.
-
@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822095#Comment_3822095
Nah cuz you can use the portals to get to the other side of the map. you can also appear next to gens on some of the portal spawns, so after a hook you have stolen the survivors event progress then you get your ghost that allows any killer to have a range down and back out, it takes survivors 1.25 seconds to enter and killer .2 seconds so in no way are you losing pressure
i already managed to clutch some matches thanks to portals as survivor, you just realize where each portal takes you and you can actually use it to your advantage lol neither portals nor smoke bombs are nearly as useless as people present them to be, especially smoke bombs
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822835#Comment_3822835
You do realise that this dramatically narrows the window, right? This only comes into play if your gen is around 90% done, otherwise there's no benefit and you're better off getting the other survivor off the hook so they can get back into action too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822837#Comment_3822837
Same goes here. It's only relevant if those extra ten seconds are exactly what you need to finish the gen. Which, to Akumakaji's second point, also means that these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen.
But, another quite important question in the overall discussion: If these extra ten seconds are such a big deal, why would killers then opt to slug instead, considering slugging takes 2 full minutes longer, rather than 20 seconds?
since you deleted original comment, time for explanation on why in many cases greeding survivor on hook is way better than going for a hook asap:
when killer hooks a survivor and someone is quick to come for a save, killer is well aware that at least 2 survivors are away from their objectives from the very moment unhook notification pops. This makes killer able to either:
- try to push at least one of other two survivors remaining on gens while having established pressure on unhooked and unhooker if they reliably know where at least one of those two is;
- get back to hook and force unhooked or unhooker (or both) to stay away from objectives and achieve another hook (or hard tunnel unhooked if they have been hooked first really early and unhooked very early too)
What greeding survivor on hook achieves:
- killer is expecting someone to come for an unhook and thus they think there are two survivors remaining on gens (after what killer makes decision whether to force remaining two survivors off gens, come back to the hook or proxy camp if more than one go for the save), while in reality it's three of them almost nullifying killer's hook pressure + one can come for a moment, use Reassurance and provide more safety;
- it makes hard tunneling much less profitable since it will be already ~50+ seconds of hooked survivor being on hook, which is kinda wasted time.
You do realise that this dramatically narrows the window, right? This only comes into play if your gen is around 90% done, otherwise there's no benefit and you're better off getting the other survivor off the hook so they can get back into action too.
my explanation above is "short" version of why this statement is wrong.
But, another quite important question in the overall discussion: If these extra ten seconds are such a big deal, why would killers then opt to slug instead, considering slugging takes 2 full minutes longer, rather than 20 seconds?
as soon as killer picks up survivor, other survivors know killer is taking that one survivor to hook, which gives them a time window to either:
- rotate on objectives based on where survivor has been picked up by the killer;
- stay on gens and prepare themselves for the eventual arrival of killer to the tile they are working gen on, after which one takes chase and, if they can reliably hold a chase and notice killer is about to overextend, 3rd survivor can come to unhook and leave zone around the hook asap, leaving one survivor on gen.
If killer decides to slug, the gap where other survivors can make decisions is gone and also, killer circumvents various on/off hook related survivor perks, +10s hook stage and any kind of planned save.
On the other hand, against decent survs, killer will manage to get a 2-slug and very rarely a 3-slug, but never a 4-slug.
-
@Emeal said:
Survivors DO need some basekit unbreakable to prevent early game slugging to 4K.
So, some base kit unbreakable where if you get hooked, your base kit unbreakable gets worse when hooked, until gone at 2 hooking?It would be a good start.
or simply don't crawl towards next slugged teammate and make it easier for killer to generate way more pressure by slugging, which would lead into 4-men slug
-
@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821142#Comment_3821142
Maps:
- We've noticed that the single generator in the 2-story building causes alot of issues, so we have decided to move the house somewhere else. The generator will now float in the air, making it more risky to repair.
understandable, price for moving a house turns out to be lower than the profit they would make for one whole chapter dedicated to QoL changes and fixing bugfixes
-
@tjt85 said:
I would prefer for there to be only one queue for the big yearly events like Halloween and the Anniversary. They're both celebrations that should be bringing the whole community together.
I appreciate that BHVR have tried to take the sweat out of the events and limited time modes by dividing the queues, but it seems like a lot of the player base have other ideas about that. I guess they just can't win.
basically this. Since it's obvious that event queues were made with a reason to bring the community together and make people enjoy goofing off, people are playing it just as if it were normal queues. Throughout my matches as both sides, barely anyone interacts with event objectives, most of the times i am the only one opening rift portals and actually interacting with other event objectives in general. Some people just don't care.
P.S. I wouldn't complain about this problem if event queues didn't exist and if the whole event mechanic system was inside normal queues, but it isn't
-
BHVR stated on Twitter that it is unintentional and they are looking into it
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
People will claim this is due to "regression nerfs" or survivor buffs, but I'm reality it's a subgroup of killer players having a tantrum.
The last regression changes were 6 months ago. That's just an excuse and anyone using that to excessively slug survivors in matches is being disingenuous.
No, the only change that's happened to start this "trend" was the extra 10 seconds of hook timer they added in the recent patch. There were several posts of people melting down over this change, and some of them are slugging every game in protest.
Apparently 60-70% kill rates aren't enough for some people, and the "buff me, nerf them" subgroup can't seem to understand why "balance" in a PVP game doesn't just mean constant killer buffs and permanent survivor nerfs every single patch. Given that people review bombed the game, flamed on social media, and have been taking about slugging being the new "only way to play" I'm not exaggerating. Since people are just that petty and entitled apparently.
balance was literally never about one side getting constant buffs, while one is getting constant nerfs. +10s to hook timers was extremely unnecessary and unhealthy change.
-
@Autharia said:
They tend to play worse ways in Event then in standard mode. Killers sluggin 4 people only to run around kicking pumpkins for 4 minutes for 100-200k points and survivors go sub 10k.
playing killer with Agi only + event offering and not slugging, not tunneling, not camping, going for 8 hooks, i am barely bumping into teams that interact with event objectives.
at the same time, as a survivor i bump up into quad slowdown killers playing the most optimal way.
both sides sweat a lot inside event queues and it's time to stop pushing one-side narrative simply because you exclusively play one side.
-
@Ziemniaczana said:
Seeing some of you saying Slugging is the new meta. Why is that?
due to the way balance goes for the past year or so (+10s hook timers, sabo strategy getting a collective buff, perks with on/off hook conditions like Deli, DS, OTR, Reassurance etc.), hooking mechanic for killer was constantly being shadow nerfed until it reached the point where it's just simply...less effective for killer than slugging and more effective for survivors. The only effective way of hooking is hard tunneling someone instantly at the start of the match, which usually works only against bad players.
With these problems, game is striving into a more unhealthy position, with spreading hooks being the first thing that was discouraged and thus pushing the hard tunneling as a meta strategy, together with collective lack of skill on survivor side. Now we have slugging that is meta on all skill levels exactly because there are less benefits from hooking.
-
@Dreamnomad said:
I think we are well past time for a base kit answer to slugging. It's pretty insane that this type of game play is tolerated.
yeah, let's constantly punish strategies in existence as a bandaid for not being able to take care of the core of the problem, and in return make the game become even more unhealthy and toxic
-
i think BHVR wanted to try making event as a separate queue with no MMD in order to make people play the whole event in a more relaxed way and have fun with the void. And it turned out that it doesn't work, people play it just the same as they would play the regular game
-
sometimes you need to realize it's just time to learn some core aspects of the game, im this case not to repair every single gen you first bump up to
-
@Autharia said:
Yep killers ruin every event. Tunneling and slugging even with no perks that can counter it are in. On top of when BHVR give killer an even easier time to kill in the event. Killers also always use SWF as a defense to make the 95% of the games populations SoloQ horrid.
killers ruon everything, survivors are pure innocent saints, is that your morale of the story? If yes, you are the problem
-
@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822334#Comment_3822334
Complaining and saying that they want something being just in their favor are two entirely different things. And again nobody said anything about the event having to favor survivors. People just pointed out that this event is favoring killers so much that there is literally nothing to gain as survivor. And thats just how it actually is. No chance denying that.
literally nothing to gain as survivor?
- entering the void as the killer leads you into a big disadvantage while survivors have free time to do gens.
- Smoke bombs are really a good tool to screw up the killer in chase
- Having your scratch marks removed literally gives you upper hand against killer
Killer has one advantage: haunts, and they serve as an antiloop tool and i admit that one is dumb since you can easily 2-tap if you time releasing the haunt well.
Personally, i don't care that i waste my time in the void since i'm playing exclusively for event objectives, but thinking survivors have nothing during this event is extreme exaggeration.
@KTH said:
What I am tired of is killers playing like they're going for Olympic gold during events. If you want to do that pls do that in the normal queue and let people who want to enjoy the event do their thing.
survivors play exactly the same, and it's a never-ending circle.
-
@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822046#Comment_3822046
Except that absolutely noone said anything like that. Youre just making up something without any arguments.
yeah, nobody complained about this year's Halloween event, nobody complained about Winter event when Snowmen couldn't give you free health state anymore, i made it all up, sure