MythMage
MythMage
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@BattleCast said:
New survivors bring much needed diversity to the game. Nothing is worse than looking at a roster of characters and thinking “none of these characters actually represent me”.
The thing is, I don't think anyone really cares about that. We have, what, 20 survivors? All anyone really plays are the original 6, with the occasional Kate, Feng, Ace, and Bill. How many Zarina mains do you know? How many Jane mains? How many Jeff mains? What about Laurie Strode or any of the other licensed characters other than Cheryl?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1801329#Comment_1801329
I would disagree that killers need to run certain combos in order to contest with gen times. Why are kill rates ~68% at red rank and higher than the overall kill rates if killers are having trouble doing well against good teams? Either good survivor teams are extremely rare or killers are able to hang just fine. Anecdotes aren't very useful, but I don't run meta builds on my killers and I do just fine at red rank.
I just think it's a poor argument to say that killers need meta builds in order to have a chance when the assumption underlying this argument is that the survivors you don't have a chance against just sweat and run meta builds. If killers run fun builds against survivor teams running meta builds, they are at a disadvantage. Same goes for survivors running fun builds against killers running meta builds. I see no evidence that the game is survivor-sided to the point where this is truly necessary. If MMR goes live and all of a sudden we see the kill rate plummet for the highest MMR players I will happily eat my words, but so far this just feels like something that's just been repeated enough that people accept it as truth.
I feel that meta builds are only "necessary" for either side if the risk of being at a disadvantage in a match is more of an issue to you than not being able to experiment with your builds. There's no right answer here, but I'd rather experiment personally.
The thing is, matchmaking is screwed and alot of survivors are boosted because ranking is horrible, so you have a ton of rank 15s at red ranks because they threw every pallet and so the game thought they were good. I guarantee that if this game ever had a full on tournament, where everything except moris and keys go, the game would HEAVILY be in the survivor's favour unless they are against a really good Nurse, and even then...
IDK. I think the problem is that to enjoy the chases and not just ditch them after 10 seconds without getting a hit, you HAVE TO run builds to help with that. I for one would be all for increasing hooks till death to 4 in exchange for 140 second gens.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1801438#Comment_1801438
Reread what I said. Some people call slugging toxic, nobody says it’s ineffective.
"Nobody calls killers bad for slugging. Some survivors call it toxic, but nobody says it's a bad strategy"
I just gave you examples where that is completely false (to be fair, no proof, just personal examples)
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1801101#Comment_1801101
Nobody calls killers bad for slugging. Some survivors call it toxic but nobody says it’s bad strategy.
Facecamping is usually bad strategy because while you stand at a hook the other three survivors are doing gens unimpeded. But in the Twins case you can have Victor pseudo camping something and meanwhile Charlotte is still putting pressure on the other survivors trying to do gens so it becomes a more viable strategy for them. It’s that ability to be in two places at once that uniquely makes them effective at zone defense.
I can't tell you how many times I've slugged someone for not even 20 seconds and I got called a PoS. Everytime I run Knock Out (cuz I love that perk), I get assaulted with more death threats than normal. Every time I slug for pressure because gens are flying I get called a baby killer. That is a very false statement
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Top 3 Best:
1.) Shattered Bloodline
2.) Saw
3.) Spark of Madness
Bottom 3 (from least garbage to worst):
3.) Nightmare On Elm Street
2.) Chains Of Hate
1.) A Binding Of Kin
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@Rifftey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/211584/not-gonna-waste-anymore-time-on-the-twins
Twins are defenitly NOT bad. It’s you. The killer itself has great potential for counter play, instead of crying about being bad and just instantly blaming in on the killer, maybe you should try to put in the time to learning how to get good with him
I have. I've played them every day since they released. I've tried so many builds, so many playstyles, etc. Even running their best addons and best perks they are still garbage. Besides, I doubt it's just me being bad. I can still at least do something as Nurse, despite me being hot garbage. I can still do something as Billy despite me not getting a grip of the Chainsaw curving. I can at least do something as Deathslinger. I main Legion, who is a killer who gets destroyed by 1 minor mistake, so I'm used to that. This killer is not great against actually good survivors. They are great against people who don't know how the game works, but against those who do, this Killer is the weakest thing they've added since Dead Man's Switch.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1801273#Comment_1801273
Isn't the killer meta less restrictive, though? Survivors are all basically picking 4 out of the same 5/6 perks. Killers at least have some better diversity because of how perks synergize with killer powers.
I'll hear people say that survivors have more freedom because they have more time to waste, but that's not true. The only thing that's different is that one survivor wasting time only wastes 25% of the survivors' time, while a killer wasting time wastes 100% of the killer's time.
The thing is, only 1 perk is really devoted to how the Killer's power works. There are some exceptions, like Trapper, Hag, and Clown, who don't really get incredible value from Ruin Undying, but otherwise it's just Ruin Undying, Alternatively, Corrupt is a must pick, BBQ because the grind is dumb, then at least 1 gen regression and then MAYBE you can use a perk for your power. It's less about "oh, Killer meta is so restrictive" it's moreso "oh, Killer players need one of these 2 combos to contest with gen times".
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1801273#Comment_1801273
I wouldn't go that far. There are more than a few Perks that are genuinely terrible, like Camaraderie, Hoarder, Predator, and Repressed Alliance. But even Perks like Solidarity and Aftercare are really, really good and useful if you take the time to use them.
And don't trash No Mither. Combining that Perk with Blood Pact and Desperate Measures + Botany is like one of the best solo builds in the game.
I pray you're joking, because No Mither is only good against The Twins
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The Killer meta is alot more restrictive, but I agree. However, when you are against good opponents and all sides are tryharding, the meta is so stale. But in a casual setting, basically anything except Distressing and No Mither goes.
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It's stupid when "died to reverse bear trap and didn't get angry" is worth a +rep on your profile. This community is garbage.
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Sliding. I would love it if there were interactions where a Survivor could slide under something.
Also, Breakable Walls should be what we all thought: bust through it like the Kool-Aid Man, 1 time drop on the survivors, not excuses for bad map design.
Dynamic environments would be cool. For example, running beside a hill on Ormond and all of a sudden snow starts falling, slowing both Survivor and Killer; Looping a L T loop on Autohaven and all of a sudden the L wall just crumbles into debris; Running through the Badwater Swamp and stepping into a sinkhole, etc.
I'd love it if certain spots were interactable with certain Killer powers. Examples would be using Shock Therapy could overcharge a particular pallet, making it shatter 3 seconds after being thrown; a certain generator can be affected by the Afterpiece Tonic to start regressing after throwing a bottle at it; Legion can slide by a small gap while in Feral Frenzy, or Hag creating a glyph on a dull totem to have an effect when it's cleansed.
Just some ideas
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799864#Comment_1799864
Yeah, he sure does. Getting a longer stun than Nurse for simple using your mediocre power.
Not only that, but 1 mistake kind of screws you over as a Killer anyway. I hate killers that destroy you for messing up/getting dedicated once. Other than that and the too long fatigue, Legion would be perfect.
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@siren_sorceress said:
Nah the Twins are very strong. Their snowball potential is insane. Most hardly even use Charlotte. They just use victor who runs around the map like a legion but with the ability to down and slug survivors. Once everyone is injured the pressure is on. Trying to heal before victor comes back again and again and again can be extremely difficult and obnoxious. So far victor seems pretty brain dead to me. But these were good killers. Sounds like you arent using her like the good ones.
Again, I've been using them like this ever since release, and it's STILL not working now that people understand how to deal with them. Between the bugs and just how slow and useless they are, even Demo is better.
@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799866#Comment_1799866
You can't realistically crouch and avoid being detected by Victor's KI while he's camping someone. It's impossible to know the exact range without triggering KI at least a little bit which is more than enough for you to react to and take control of Victor.
It's not impossible. If you can hear the screeching, you are susceptible. By default, Victor's screeches extend 12 meters. It's really easy to avoid.
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@yobuddd said:
One of the best strategies I’ve found is to go plant Victor in some high-traffic area (like downstairs Saloon), but behind an object where he’s hard to find and kick. Then just hunt with Charlotte and enjoy all that extra tracking info when your chase gets near L’il Vic.
Switch back to him periodically to either relocate him or prevent his time-out.
Yeah. Kind of sad that THAT seems to be the best "normal" playstyle with them. Such wasted potential for an otherwise cool killer.
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@dugman said:
In these discussions of how good or bad the Twins are it's also useful to keep in mind that right now Victor can directly hit people in lockers but that's apparently a bug (probably something accidentally left in when they were testing ways to help Victor against locker dodges.) The actual "fix" to lockers is supposedly going to be something less powerful, like Victor being able to keep the survivor in the locker for a short time. Assuming that's actually how the fix will work then the Twins will be noticeably less effective than they are currently because it will make locker dodging against Victor possible again, albeit to a lesser degree than it was on the PTB.
Without seeing the specific details of what the Victor-locker change will be it's impossible to tell how good or bad the Twins will be at that point. Depending on that change it could range all the way from almost as bad as they were on the PTB (i.e. survivors just dodge in a locker and Charlotte can't get there in time to do anything) to being just about as good as they currently are (i.e. decent killers overall if you adopt a slugging or zone defense/camping strategy). The devil is really going to be in the details of that locker fix.
Lockers have actually never been a problem. Survivors merely existing is. The Twins just have no pressure whatsoever
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@Dak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799857#Comment_1799857
- Leave Victor at hook
- Go chase someone else
- KI procs when someone goes to save
- Swap to Victor
Except they can just crouch, completely nullifying this completely.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
I’m getting a little pissed at the amount of killer powers lately whereby all a survivor needs to do is zig zag or 360 erratically in order to be untouchable by that power.
It’s getting tiresome trying to either Pounce, Lethal Rush, PoTD, Shoot, Shred, or Purge and it simply never touching a Survivor that does this. What’s most infuriating is that it’s far too easy for survivors to do. In Victor’s case he’s just far too easily punished for one miss. The disparity is absurd. Survivor puts in so little effort to avoid these powers, they could do it blind folded. Whereas the killer has to continually try and track/predict where the survivor is going next whilst trying not to succumb to total vertigo, only to miss anyway, and too bad, you’re now crushed.
I try not to let it stress me due to Victor’s insanely fast respawn, but when up against 4 survivors that do this and can’t be touched, it’s well... what do you do? It’s already evidenced that sending out Victor becomes useless, so I’m just meant just use only Charlotte? Stand in a corner and wait for the match to be over?
Legion has this issue too, but less so. But yes, this killer is way too difficult and infuriating for how little reward they get
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@Dak said:
If you camp, survivors can do almost nothing
but survivor=bad is acceptable to alot around here
Don't understand what you're trying to say, but yes, they are pretty good at camping. However, Bubba is still the go to camper, since he can actually catch survivors in the first place
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Couldn't have said it better myself
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@BadMrFrosty said:
New killer is terrible, they just excel at the most sleep tier tactics in the game if they can get going, and that's the problem. BVHR seems to have unintentionally (benefit of the doubt) designed a killer that is especially good at all the things survivors hate. Best part? I know you bought that onesie.
agreed. The new killer is literally just for all the players who already play like #########. It's not like Bubba where you can play normally and get better results than facecamping, but both are effective. No, it's that camping is the ONLY thing they are good at. It's really pathetic
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@lowiq said:
Twins aren't bad. They just requires a different playstyle.
I know. I was one of the first to discover this. They are a beast at slugging, but that's if you can generate pressure as an M1 killer first, which is impossible against good survivors
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1798913#Comment_1798913
Yes, because Freddy is completely like his old self and Dosent play for portly differently and isn’t practically an all new killer.
Which is why I hated his rework. It was stupid, and should never have happened. Full reworks like the Freddy one is stupid.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799055#Comment_1799055
You could still use it to bodyblock. Its no big deal most of the time, but you can get value out of it.
It is rare that you would tunnel accidentally, but what are the downsides of giving this info to the killer?
...hmm, true true. I guess it doesn't really matter either way
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@TicTac said:
Has DS still a time limit? Would it be good when the killer could see the specual effect over the health state, too? It helps to not tunnel accidentally.
Iron maiden would just be the same as disabling lockers after the survivors know that you have it.
No, DS wouldn't have the time limit. And I specifically made it so that it's not abusable, so tunneling accidentally would be about as common as a Killer running Gearhead
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@NomiNomad said:
Iron Maiden is a little busted, but I do like the idea of it holding Survivor's inside for a limited amount of time, but the rest of the ideas are pretty good
I particularly like Visionary. Idk why it doesn't do that already.
@JustHeretoHaveFun said:
That Iron Maiden idea is incredibly overpowered. Perks like Inner Strength become infinitely riskier.
Yeah, IDK. I was under a time limit when I was writing these, so I didn't think them out perfectly, but I agree the Iron Maiden one is kind of OP
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1796567#Comment_1796567
What makes you think DS is strictly anti-tunnel?
For the record, they are invincible if you choose to tunnel. If survivors are magically disabled for doing actions, then so should killer perks. It is amazing killers think Tinkerer is fine as it is, a perk that literally PUNISHES the other side for doing the objective. No counterplay.
I mean, by that logic, Fire Up punishes survivors for doing the objective, so it needs a nerf?
Furthermore, what makes people think it's strickly anti-tunnel? Well, it provides a defensive ability once the survivor is unhooked and picked up within a certain time frame. How is that NOT an anti tunnel perk? Second Wind is also like this, but it's reward costs altruism and surviving the tunnel, at least for a little bit. Old DS was purely anti-momentum, which is a bad design for a perk at all. Momentum comes from one side being significantly better than the other, or by outplaying them to a significant amount. Why would anyone punish that? And let's say for a moment that the DS rework didn't turn into an anti-tunnel perk. It would still be anti-momentum. Imagine a Killer perk that if 2 generators are done within 200 seconds, 1 completed generator goes back to 0% and 2 incompleted generators blow up and start regressing. That's punishing the survivors for being efficient. That is a stupid perk. Anti-momentum is a ######### concept for a perk.
I'm gonna be real: DS should 100% be a base kit mechanic for survivors if they fine tuned it to make it not abusable but also make it better. This is what I always say for a reworked base kit DS
After being unhooked, DS activates. If you are picked up by the Killer while DS is active, immediately stun the Killer for 5 seconds (no skill check) and gain the Haste (7%) status effect for 10 seconds (to make up for the grasp escape animation).
DS has no timer, and is deactivated whenever you work on a gen, heal or get healed 1 health state, sabo, rescue, or cleanse bones. DS also deactivates if the Killer hits or hooks another survivor
DS has infinite uses.
Survivors with DS active have a special icon over their health state. This is only visible to survivors
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It is, but it's the Killer equivalent to constantly saving and hiding and not doing gens to maybe get the hatch when it's clear you've already lost, which is 100x more common than slugging for the 4K with no info
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1798878#Comment_1798878
I personally think they need something that makes them feel like a Legion. My main ide (which is not origninally my own but I really like it), is allow them to teleport through lockers and leave another member of the Legion hiding in the locker. Have it be able to leap out and attack survivors that pass in front of it, as well giving survivor detection within a certain radius. Allow them to have up to 3 members total, but can’t teleport if all of them are out. Give a cool down on the teleport of course, otherwise it would be too powerful.
1.) No. Just no. The Legion would be the perfect killer if they revert some (not all) of the nerfs from the rework, the main one being not losing all of your power on miss and 3 second fatigue.
2.) So, just a more complicated Twins? The Twins are already bad as is. Adding another 2 would only cause more problems
3.) What in the figity ######### is this rework idea? Just make a new killer at this point. Legion doesn't need a full rework
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Plague, Pig, Legion are M1 killers.
Especially Legion because his power doesn't help him during chases. Yeah, you get the first hit but that's it, nothing more. You rely on jukes, mindgames and M1 to down the survivor. Plague as well, you get them injured but that's it, that's basically the first "free hit" you get, then you have to rely on jukes and mindgames to get your survivor down.
And if you catch yourself as Trapper without traps engaging in a chase well then...you're an M1 killer.
Plague has Corrupt Purge. Pig has Dash. Legion has Feral Frenzy (a true M1 killer wouldn't be able to cause damage with their power directly, such as Wraith or Myers.
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Myers exists my dude
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They are apologies from BHVR for the horrible patch. Also, I'm assuming "RS" stands for Rift Shards? If so, hell yeah lmao
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Legion. Easily. I'm not great with explaining things, so I will direct people who disagree to Raging_Ryuga's 4.4.0 tier list, and hear his thoughts on Legion's strength.
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@JHondo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794686#Comment_1794686
Agree and disagree, what's fun for one side: Using DS aggressively or double stunning with DS or Pallets into Head On is incredibly frustrating for the other side, same can be said about Mori's or the "OP" killers like Spirit and Freddy. So in cases like that balance is necessary. Yes fun is ultimately more important but when things don't have consistent counter play they need to be balanced to create fun for both sides.
Oh, yeah. That's a given. Fun > balance 100% of the time, for BOTH sides.
I mean, Spirit is fine tho. I love versing a good Spirit. And no one likes stuns.
Fun should never be for only 1 side unless it's PvE, in which case go wild lmao
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I think at that point you might as well just delete the Twins and replace them with Chucky.
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This would also explain why Overwatch is in such a bad spot. Both Dead By Daylight and Overwatch are focusing too much on balance and not what is fun. It's why the ultra-rare addons have been garbage recently: they're afraid of making something too powerful. It's like Demo. He's not strong at all, but everyone likes him cuz he's fun. Fun > balance, 100% of the time. A video game is supposed to be fun, not balanced.
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I agree some of them (like escape on death hook as [blank]) are outright stupid. I also agree that if you have a challenge selected and you don't own that killer/perk, you should be given it for 24 hours or until you complete it, whichever comes first.
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@RamblinRango said:
The entire thing reads as "What they did was subpar and I hate it, thanks I guess" lmao
Some appreciation thread
It came off like that? That was never my intention. My intention was to look at what BHVR has done right during a time where there are countless things to b**ch about.
To be fair, how much did I have to work with?
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I love this.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794538#Comment_1794538
More chase time? I thought killers hated infinites, double pallets and lack of dead zones
Also my matchmaking never takes over 2 minutes, when one matchmaking starts getting longer I switch role which goes faster
Also no, not even the current 80 seconds of gen is fun
We hate infinites because there is no counterplay or the counterplay is just hold W, occasionally press space. It's less about how much skill either side has, and more of who has more patience/"honor".
Lack of dead zones is the exact opposite of what I enjoy. I hate dead zones. It's why Midwich is such utter s**t. It's just holding W, holding W, holding W harder.
What is this "double pallets" you are refering to?
Ultimately, Killers hate long chases because we are under a VERY stressful time limit. We can't afford to continue chasing. What makes you think Killers don't like chases? We love them. It's just that we can't afford to have too much of it.
But what's more fun: 40 second gens and the Killer not being able to commit to a 2 hit chase, or 200 second gens and everyone gets 3-4 full 2 hit chases?
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794477#Comment_1794477
Yeah so playing survivor would be 90% of the time pressing m1 or standing on a hook, sounds fun
More gen time, yes, but also more chase time. Are you really OK with waiting 20 minutes for a game only for it to end in 20 seconds? I'm a Killer main, so it's no problem for me and my 2 second queue times, but I would imagine survivors would love increased gen times but also more survivability.
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Trials definitely need to slow down. If they nerfed gen speeds and buffed how long it takes for a survivor to die, I'd be VERY happy.
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@Iceyrawr said:
Look at this image right here,
I missed, because she is on a little stair.
Want to counter victor? forget about locker, forget about kidnapping, just stand on a stair 4head
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QAY1AE66KBCX/screenshot-282456-29.png
Video footage:
that pounce happened at 2:10 ish in the video,
and before that, I got stuck in the ground for 2mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aek4FF07w-M&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=UftufIyyg
I want to give this game a chance, I really do,
but nope, I regret my decision of buying the DLC every single minute.
WHY DID YOU BUY IT?
I hope you mean with Iri shards, because otherwise you are just as bad as the devs for this
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I don't think Freddy is too big of an issue IMO. He's strong, yes. He's easy, most definitely. However, He's really not in the need for changes. I think many other killers need changes more, like Clown, Wraith, Demo, Trapper, Legion (not a rework. Reverting some nerfs), Pig. Freddy is pretty low on the priority list.
@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1793306#Comment_1793306
1 out of 100 Nurse matches ends in a 4k. Yeah, she destroys but that's that. You'll see her no more.
I see Freddy's every other match, and he mostly always gets a 3-4k. Anyone who says Nurse needs a nerf is just really bad at the game and needs to git gud.
Spirit on the other hands, Jesus Christ. She needs some serious tweaks to her power. And Nurse already got her nerfs, no one wants to play with the buggiest killer in the game.
And no, Freddy isn't mid Tier. He's A+ Tier. Just because you don't see him at Rank 17 doesn't mean the Rank 1 survivors like myself don't see him every other match.
I disagree with the Spirit thing. I personally believe that the only change Spirit needs is to remove her synergy with Stridor and make footsteps a constant while in Yamaoka's Haunting, but make it a bit more subtle. Other than that, she's perfect.
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@TrapperClaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794135#Comment_1794135
Otz can 50 row on burger king myers so he doesn't really count here.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794135#Comment_1794135
Regarding point 1, you can't really take Otz's results as the gospel. I won 3 games in a row last night at rank 1 with powerless Doc and cloaked TR Wraith. Red rank survivors are ridiculously boosted nowadays relative to people who play the game for a living.
I'm not talking about Otz's 50 win streak series. I'm talking about just him playing Plague. There is so much strength behind having everyone injured and then out of the blue (to the survivors), you get the best power in the game (excepting Spencer's Last Breath). And yes, red rank survivors ARE boosted. But if Otz believes Plague is a very strong killer, I'm inclined to believe him. I really haven't heard ANYONE say Plague is weak.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794109#Comment_1794109
Mend Mend Mend
First free hit and then uninteresting m1 killer.
Oh, boo hoo, you suffer from a worthless status effect that inconveniences you for a whole 12 seconds. Oh the humanity!
Seriously, never understood why people hate mending so much.
From the survivor side, yeah, it can seem like free hit than uninteresting killer, but the playstyle the Legion invokes is just full of depth and decision making. As well, it makes the survivor question what their next move should be, instead of "GENS GENS GENS"
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@YoshisCookies said:
Played 18 games tonight mostly tunneled off hook no face camp but it was way easier than being a tool and chasing 3 diff people hooking them x3 times and dealing with DS vs just getting rid of 1-2 people off the bat
#stopplayingfair
I disagree. I think entitled survivors want you to play like a bot so they can bully you. This is not fair. However, being a piece of s**t isn't really fun for either side. I want to "play fair". It's really, REALLY fun. The problem is that there is no time.
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@NekoTorvic said:
TLDR: The Twins are an interesting example of what causes killers to adopt strategies that make survivor experience worse (camping, slugging and tunneling). When a killer is too slow to compete with how fast gens can go if survivors just hold m1, these tactics become way more prevalent.
________________________________________________________________________________
So after a day, people are starting to realize that because the Twins are far too slow to keep up with gen speed, the only way to play them effectively is to massively slug and camp, I haven't necessarily seen excessive tunneling.
The reason this is interesting is because it shows a point.
Why do killers slug, camp and tunnel? As much as some survivors like to think that these tactics are adopted exclusively out of malice or a massive lack of skill, I think the issue is more complicated.
Killers do all of this, because it makes the match easier on them, because the normal "patrol, chase, hook" cycle for 12 hooks is completely and utterly unviable with most killers against survivors that do gens. And that's literally all it takes them. If they sit on a thing and hold M1, most killers are going to have a hard time, some of the roster cannot compete at all.
With the survivor objective being the way it currently is, chases become cumbersome, mistakes are not afforded to the killer at all, which then creates a dilemma in the killer's mind. Is chasing this new survivor even worth it, or should I focus on taking this one survivor down and protecting my territory? Should I even try to go to gens when I know I don't have time to patrol, chase and hook, or should I just stay here in my corner defending what I already have? Should I bother trying to give everyone fair chases, or should I just try to keep them all immobilized on the floor so they occupy their teammates time and I can eventually down them all?
When killers are not confident in their potential to play normally, because the character itself doesn't have the tools to let their skill overcome the game pace, or when they know for a fact that they don't have time to play normally, they will inevitably resort to whatever tactics can tip the scales to their favor, which usually makes the experience worse for survivors, because the only thing the killer can do is try to deprive them of gameplay, instead of engaging with them in gameplay. This happens even to the best killer players, or people that are considered generally as very very good.
The Twins is a perfect example of a killer that doesn't have time to play normally. They have decent chase potential with Victor, so all they do is deprive survivors of gameplay by slugging everyone and camping.
The solution to this is not to mega punish camping, tunneling and slugging, as some survivors believe. Doing that will either generate resentment from killers towards survivors, or it will just drive all killers that don't feel they have the tools to deal with game pacing away from the game entirely.
I believe the right solution is to improve game pacing, as well as incentivize going for multiple chases against multiple people, and then we can give survivors the tools to deal with tactics like slugging, camping and tunneling.
There have been a ridiculous number of ideas people have given to resolve the issue of games going to fast, as well as incentivizing multiple chases. This is not the point of this thread. But i believe it's important to recognize the cause of certain less than desirable behaviors so we can then tackle them effectively, instead of just endlessly crying about the most obvious thing in front of us.
Now, of course, some people may think that these kinds of tactics are fine, and that's a fair position to have, but it's undeniable that a sizeable chunk of survivors are very frustrated by them, and it is true that there are killers (myself included) who would rather the game allowed them the time and tools to consistently outplay their opponents over and over again, instead of resorting to tactics that limit gameplay just to have a chance.
Just my 2 cents on the matter... if anyone cares.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I was actually planning on making a post just like this. I think the Twins are good for the game purely because it may make the devs look more towards longer gen times or other objectives (if they are smart). Knowing BHVR, they're probably going to
A.) nerf the twins when they are already weak
B.) nerf slugging in some way
Both of which we DON'T need. If they combine a slug nerf with increase in gen speeds, however, I'd be down for this. The reason that Killers slug so much is because we just waste too much time hooking survivors.
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1.) Plague is actually one of the stronger killers in the game. Otzdarva has proved this point countless times.
2.) Overall, I think the Plague is really bad design. Not being able to heal? That's fine. I love Legion! Oh, you mean EVER? Ahm, OK. At least I still got Iron Wi-you mean I make noise even while injured? OK, well, at least I got Spine Chill so I can play stea-oh, I'm bright as ######### even if I am darker than my own mind? #########?
See what I mean? Really annoying on the survivor side. An entire concept is taken out. Also, as a Plague, you really don't have a power if you play against good survivors, so it's boring IMO.
3.) Plague isn't in desperate need of changes like Clown, Demo, and Wraith do. Even if Plague wasn't strong, she's still infinitely better than Clown and Demo.
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I love this. If I get hit by this as Killer, I'll be infuriated at first because I wouldn't know wut's going on with all the hiding, but I would love this. We need more memers
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I think the Twins are fine. I mean, maybe the twins shows the flaws in the game. It makes you wonder: why are so many people slugging? Because it causes pressure while quickly being able to cause more. Fact of the matter is we spend WAYYYY too much time hooking survivors, and the Twins aren't exactly the greatest outside of slugging.
Besides, No Mither, Unbreakable, Tenacity, Soul Guard (now indirectly buffed because Ruin Undying), and more help with being slugged. You want to not get slugged? Punish killers for playing the game efficiently, then proceed to slam gens/playing efficiently yourself? The survivor meta is already this. You would just have to make minor adjustments to the Smoll PP Build and boom, no more trouble from slugging killers.