MysterTal
MysterTal
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Without trying to hurt your ego,this isn't a way to balance things. Imagine keys and nurse,they all need some add-ons and perks to be good. What you suggest is "do the impossible". Even if we don't do the impossible with, for example, keys, and if neither me or my teammates escape each match, it doesn't mean anything. Keys are still broken. Hope I'm understood.
My ego has nothing to do with anything.
This is pretty faulty equivocation. None of those things are in any way comparable.
Keys are broken, but are an item that requires a feature in the game to appear under a specific set of circumstances, whereas Billy always has access to M2 from the get-go.
If the chainsaw is broken, it should not be impossible at all - on the contrary, you should have an easy time.
EDIT:
PS
You can compare Keys to a Mori, however. They both have a similar function - ending the game for one side or the other, with an Ivory Mori being the equivalent of one person escaping through the hatch and an Ebony being the equivalent of everyone escaping through the hatch at about 1 gen or so (or is it with the exit gates powered? I can't remember).
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/121637/a-challenge-to-anyone-complaining-about-billy
That's not really a proper test. Billy is strong if you know how to play him. I don't, and would get wrecked. I think all the Billy OP posts are utter nonsense.
It's a proper test because the people who complain about him are talking as if his Power is completely OP.
If something is OP, it's just OP. It doesn't matter what your skill level is - in fact, it's more blatantly OP when even a novice player can use it and easily defeat a more experienced player. That's exactly how you can demonstrate that something is busted.
My aim is to demonstrate whether or not it's actually OP. To that end, I ask various people (presumably of varying skill levels) to do the challenge.
If Billy is OP then we will see a consistent majority of 4k's as long as people are using the chainsaw.
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@NDwight88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/121637/a-challenge-to-anyone-complaining-about-billy
The add ons are what need to change. #nerfbilly
You wouldn't mind doing 10 matches as Billy with the strongest Addons you can think of?
Only conditions are that you must 4k every match, you cannot use Perks or Offerings and you have to do it chainsaw only. You can use instasaw, though.
What do you say?
I mean, if you think it's busted then it should be no problem and if it's so powerful it shouldn't be like a punishment or anything, it'd be a lot of fun for you, right?
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@Animator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010741#Comment_1010741
I believe that all the old animations would fit perfectly into the current gameplay of the game. You just have to try and everyone will like it. For the sake of interest, the developers should make a PTB with all the old animations and old lighting in the lobby and then have a poll. Live poll on the forum.
Just bring back 2016 DBD as its own game mode. ;)
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@AllMyLemons said:
Just asking. I do it as a killer if im thinking that the guy has ds.
And its annoying when killers do it to me :D
Yes, you should just risk them DS'ing you so they can win.
Doing anything other than that is a crime against humanity and you are going to prison.
/sarcasm ;-)
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I do miss the old animations on a lot of things like the grab animations, but there's a reason why they were changed. They're so long and overdrawn.
No argument about how cool they look, they were 100% better-looking and very cinematic and fluid.
I miss the old Trapper animation for when you put down a trap. Back when I started playing, his full animation when you pressed and held M2 to put a trap down was like this: stop, look down, put a trap down, put your foot on the trap to hold down one jaw while pulling the other one open.
It was very slow, but very realistic.
Something about the new trap-setting animation just looks so... off.
The new animations are still better for gameplay - the old ones are better-looking. Oddly enough.
Also, the old sounds for when you hit a Survivor.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010683#Comment_1010683
Billy isn’t broken nor is he OP. You have to be somewhat good with Billy to do well against good survivors because he requires some mechanical skills because the chainsaw is not easy to manage.
Here is what I am saying...Billy has zero power recharge. He can rev his chainsaw and threaten a survivor at a pallet loop and he doesn’t have to wait for any length of time before revving his chainsaw again. Huntress can run out of hatchets. Nurse has to wait for her blinks to recharge. Spirit has to wait for her power to come back. Billy just has to rev his chainsaw after breaking the pallet.
I’m not trying to say Billy can always use his chainsaw to down survivors and get free hits. Just that he has no cooldown or recharge and can instantly use it again unlike other killers who have to wait for their power to come back.
I only think Billy is broken with Instasaw add-ons.
I hear you.
The problem is that a recharge mechanic would actually make him unplayable. There are so many things in this game that are basically balanced as if on the tip of a tightrope - nudge them one way or another and you completely break them.
If you had a recharge mechanic on Billy and therefore forced players to basically use his power only once every X seconds, he would actually be miserable to play.
Since you don't play Billy yourself, you also probably never noticed that Billy does, in fact, have a recharge mechanic to his power already. There's a hidden cooldown effect when you use your chainsaw during which a Billy can barely move and cannot actually interact with anything.
This recharge effect is actually a lot more significant than people think. I've had an injured Survivor escape me because I chainsaw dashed towards him only to be forced to stop, and by the time my cooldown ended and I could M1 again, he already made it to a pallet and threw it down on me.
This happens about 2-3 times every single Billy match.
Every single Billy match (where you play Billy) you feel that cooldown.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010658#Comment_1010658
What do I have to prove to you? I don’t have anything to prove to you when there are tons of videos of skilled Billy players.
I never claimed I was good at Billy. I don’t play him nor do I have the desire to play him. My opinions are formed from what I’ve seen from others.
If Billy is broken you don't need to be good with him, you just need to press and hold M2.
This is what you young fellas don't seem to understand, something an old gamer can tell you (if you could just help me into this chair, young man, and make me a nice warm cup of tea...): if something is OP, it's OP because it doesn't matter who plays it - it's just OP. There's nothing that the other side can do and it isn't dependent on skill level.
It's broken because it's broken at the core. It doesn't matter if you put it in the hands of an actual Adeptus Astartes with 8 trillion hours in the game or if you have your youngest sibling try it out while still teaching them the Alphabet or how a cow goes.
I'm not asking you to prove something in the chest-beating-macho-sense - I'm asking to see empirical evidence.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010653#Comment_1010653
Battleguy? Scott Jund? Zubatlel? Umbra? All of those players have played Billy against skilled survivors.
Show me your matches.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010647#Comment_1010647
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Billy doesn’t have a cooldown and can chainsaw whenever he wants and wherever he wants. He isn’t limited by a cooldown like Spirit or has to recharge his power like Huntress.
That’s not me saying that he is 100% always going to be able to chainsaw a survivor. He just doesn’t have to wait for a cooldown like other killers do :/
He isn’t a broken killer by far.
Show me 10 matches of you chainsawing "whenever and wherever" you want.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010644#Comment_1010644
I can talk about whatever I damn well please. You don’t know who I play or even who I am. Maybe you should stop throwing around assumptions.
I don’t play Billy because I don’t like him and he takes a bit of mechanical skill to use and I don’t wanna put in the effort to play a killer I already don’t like.
I’ve seen players who are good at Billy that typically like to chainsaw. If they HAVE to then they’ll M1 but I’ve seen some pretty good Billy players who know exactly where and how to curve the chainsaw. A skilled Billy vs skilled survivors is a pretty even match.
I'd like to see 10 recorded matches of a skilled Billy vs skilled Survivors, please.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010594#Comment_1010594
The difference between Billy and Spirit is that Spirit has a cooldown on her power and Billy can chainsaw whenever he pleases. Billy is the only killer in the game (besides Leatherface) that doesn’t have a cooldown or has to recharge their power.
I agree that sometimes it is easier to just get the M1 hit but most players who are good at Billy go strictly for chainsaw hits and it’s not that hard if you’re good with him.
@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010618#Comment_1010618
And this is why we can't have rational debate. It's often just dismissive, almost trolling comments. "show me 10 4kz in a row or (insert thing) is not OP."
Thankfully the DBD balance team doesn't seem to operate under the same criteria.
@Mang_Anwar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010625#Comment_1010625
Yep, couldn't agree more.
Lots of talk.
All I asked is for you to record 10 matches of you playing Billy, yourselves.
Put your money where your mouth is.
You're saying Billy is broken, you're saying he is OP, you're saying he can always chainsaw whenever he pleases.
Well, show us.
....Because I have to tell you, as a Billy Main who has been playing since 2016 - and normally plays with no Addons - I don't feel that powerful. I just thought maybe you knew something I didn't, maybe you discovered some skill I havent - or maybe I'm just bad and you're gods.
I just want players to produce evidence as to the power level of the character when using his power.
It really isn't a big ask. Recording and uploading your gameplay to YouTube is completely free.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010592#Comment_1010592
But why no add ons? why even no NOED? these things ARE in the game and people are taking them.Nobody knows what a Billy is like with no add ons and no perks because nobody ever sees one.
He does have an M1 so there is no point disabling that as if Billy is struggling to hit a good survivor he can always fall back on M1. In addition if he's getting looped he can bring some combination of enduring/spirit fury/bamboozle which a lot of Billys do.
He can hook a survivor and then BBQ across the map and appear on top of another and start swinging instadown after instadown after instadown with little cooldown until he gets the survivor. I know some survivors say BBQ needs a nerf and I disagree, it's fine and not OP at all. However Hillbilly (and old Nurse) is the only killer where I would say BBQ feels OP because of how quickly he can reach that survivor and then he can just keep swinging instadowns at them, Likewise Tinkerer is a junk perk however there's one killer it is good on - Hillbilly. My point is there are a good number of perks which become far more useful on Hillbilly than any other killer, almost as if the problem lies with Hillbilly himself and not the perks, No recent killer has ever been designed with that ability to cross the map the way Hillbilly can and then having unlimited instadowns on top.
He can instadown a survivor with his instasaw and then turn around and blast any others in the area with Infectious Fright.
At the moment many bring Ruin to slow the game down. It's not uncommon for Hillbilly to zoom across the map from the start, land on a survivor out of position and then have them instadowned all within the first 15 seconds of the game before the survivors have even got their first skillcheck. Then on top of that if you somehow get past a Hillbilly with instasaw and Ruin, a number have NOED at the end as a crutch to fall back on.
My point is that no killer exists in a vacuum. Anyone can pick Hillbilly and any number of these builds. This is kind of the problem as all of this stacks and it's very easy to pick instasaw Hillbilly with Ruin and NOED and win any game with skill taking a backseat. I almost feel like in a way Hillbilly holds back the other killers, as certain things can't be buffed or have to be nerfed because of him.
You sure type a lot.
Care to display your expertise in the form of your recorded gameplay videos?
I'd like to see 10 4k's as Billy, please. From everything you've written, it shouldn't be a problem.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010563#Comment_1010563
Honestly. No offerings and no M1
The best Billy players could probably pull this of. But most people would struggle really hard if survivors catch on you never m1. Even with instasaw
You know, an InstaSaw build but where you can only use the chainsaw could be a thing, too... Hmmm...
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I amended the challenge a bit to make it more approachable. Reduced the required number of matches from 50 to 10 to make it less daunting, also amended the requirement for Chainsaw Only to more like Chainsaw Preferred.
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@ClickyClicky said:
What a ridiculous requirement. "you need to 4k every single match with no add ons, perks, grabs or M1 hits otherwise this thing is not OP"
That's not how balance works. That's not what dictates what is overpowered.
Ok, how about "grabs and M1 allowed"? No Addons and no Perks like Devour Hope or NOED or things like that.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010545#Comment_1010545
It is unreasonable, because Billy cannot chainsaw certain things. A survivor could hide in a locker all game. How would you kill them with your power without being able to pull them out? In addition, Billy AT BASE would be including his M1 hits, grabs, etc, because AT BASE that is Billy. Base means no addons(doesn't even mean no perks), it doesn't mean "do absolutely nothing but use chainsaws".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010526#Comment_1010526
That person's survivor equivalent is the exact same ridiculous argument. If gen speed is broken, you shouldn't need to worry about looping the killer because it's OP right? So if the killer comes you just let him hook you, and then everyone else has to ignore you and keep doing gens, and you'll all 4 get out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010546#Comment_1010546
I believe they DID loop the killers, and that was over 2 years ago that the LAST video was posted iirc. A lot has changed.
Ok, but it's the chainsaw that people are saying is what's broken - not his stellar M1 stats or locker-grabbing skills. I just don't want people sending me videos of them basically M1'ining to victory or winning because some clown went in a locker in front of them (without DS, that is) and then they just had the other three people hook-bombing themselves to death, you know?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010526#Comment_1010526
Not nececarly saying you're wrong. Just that you went overboard with the challenge
If anything that you have to put that many restraints before you can say Billy's power isn't broken kinda does the oppesite of what you want to show
Most people wouldn't be able to do 50 4k matches without m1's alone. All the other restraints were kinda unnecacery
Again not nececarly saying Billy is broken or anything. Just saying that putting that many restraints just makes it show that your not very certain of your case
The insane constraints were there so that people wouldn't just link us to videos of them M1'ing everyone or using InstaSaw + Mori every match and going "see!? it's totally broken!"
What would you suggest, instead?
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Also, this is exactly the opposite of asking anyone to play Nurse wihtout Blinking - this is asking you to play by ONLY Blinking. Basically, by spamming the Power.
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I thought his chainsaw is "broken", how would it weaken the Killer by using it?
The people who complain about Billy aren't just talking about InstaSaw - they're saying Billy is broken at base.
All I'm asking for, is for people to indeed use Billy at base and use his Power. Why is that unreasonable? I thought his Power is their problem, I thought it was "OP".
...If you have an OP weapon, you need nothing else to win, right?
Gosh, it's almost like, I dunno, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to do it...
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@Atrushan88 said:
It's impossible to kill all 4 survivors using only your power on pretty much any killer that can one hit down(except Myers). There's a very simple reason to this. If a survivor KNOWS you're only using your power, which isn't hard to guess, then they will know how to abuse that fact. Killers are not balanced around only their powers. You're basically telling people to use less than 25% of a killer, since you're also taking addons out of the equation. A Killer is comprised of Perks, Addons, Power, Basic Attacks/grabs. You're taking out 3 of those(4 if you count grabs in with basic attacks).
If a Power is broken then it should be OP at base - without any need for enhancements of any kind.
If a Power is OP, then you should be able to completely win just by using it.
The complainers are claiming that there is no counterplay to the chainsaw, as well. Then you shouldn't worry about counterplay, if it doesn't exist.
They're saying that it very much is possible to win just by using the chainsaw, so I'm just asking them to prove it.
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@deeziebaby said:
I got a 4k in literally 2 minutes and I don't even play him like that 😭😂 he deff is broken needs to have a cool down on that good ole chainsaw running..
Then you wouldn't mind doing it 49 more times and posting it on YouTube?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Survivor equivalent
The rules are simple:
- The gameplay must be your own. You cannot use anyone else's. It must be you playing.
- You must play as Dwelf. You cannot play any Killer and you cannot play any other Survivor.
- You cannot use Items of any kind.
- You cannot use Offerings of any kind.
- You cannot use any Perks.
- You cannot interact with lockers, totems or whatever else isn't a gen.
- You can only do gens. Don't run if the killer comes. Gens ONLY.
- You must escape with all four Survivors every match.
- You cannot disconnect from a match, regardless of map or if you're losing.
If Gen rush is truly broken, then you should be able to easily escape every single match regardless of map, whether or not you're up against adept Killerss or any other factor besides the genspeed alone.
Looking forward to seeing the results
(Not trying to make a statement other then how silly that challenge sounds)
The complaints are saying that Billy's power is broken, that he can easily chainsaw Survivors whenever - and wherever - they may be, that he is capable of pressuring two people on different sides of the board and other such things.
All I'm saying, is if any of it is true then you should be able to consistently kill all four Survivors just by using the Billy's Power.
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I'm thinking if they take away my Billy then I'm ######### done with this game.
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As a Killer Main who also plays Survivor, I never followed the logic of the "Ruin Change is Good 'cuz Newbies" crowd.
By the same logic, half the Survivor Perks in the game sorely need to be removed. How fair is an adept Survivor pulling a Dead Hard on a Killer who is literally playing for the first time?
How are DS shenanigans fair on new Killers? They're not even fair on veteran Killers.
And before some wiseguy comes along with "DS is just anti-tunneling now" - DS has a timer of a full minute, which means that 40 seconds after a Nea was hooked she can do gens in the Killer's face and jump in a locker.
If you think that as Killer you have the ability to keep track of how many seconds it's been since this or that Survivor was hooked and have the luxury of standing in front of lockers (hello, Head On) for about half a minute just to be safe - you have never played Killer, period. You cannot spare a single second for anything unless you're playing against potatoes.
How FUN is it to go up against Sprint Burst, exactly? "Aha, I caught a Survivor! They're out of position! Amazing! I can get a hit here an-- oh, nevermind, it automatically gave me a false chainsaw and now they're on the other side of the map, swimming in pallets... Outplayed, I guess..."
How FAIR is Deliverance, Unbreakable, Object of Obsession (lol, nice trap setup, Trapper), Iron Will, Calm Spirit (against Doctor, for instance)?
How fair is the pallet vacuum animation that Survivors still have? How fair is their demonically sharp movement on Dedicated Servers?
Should we mention Commodius toolboxes and keys, as well? Rainbow maps against Trappers and Hex Perks?
<"On the killer side of things I do believe it was also a problem on the other end because it was a necessary perk at red ranks">
What do you mean was?
The devs are nerfing Ruin, they're not fixing the reason why Ruin is being used.
I also have to completely disagree with the assertion that Ruin gates the game to newbie Survivors.
I started playing around the time the Hag came out in 2016 and Ruin was introduced to the game and I started playing Survivor more around the time that Ruin was popularized as a meta Perk for Killers (back around the time they buffed Thrill and TrU3ta1ent popularized his "Genstopper Build").
The issue that Survivor Mains seem to completely miss is that Killer Mains aren't miffed about Ruin getting nerfed, at all. We actually don't care about Ruin by itself. What we're angry about is that there's a reason we feel we need Ruin and the devs are taking away the Perk without addressing the reason most of us rely on it so much.
Another reason we're angry is that Ruin isn't the problem with DBD. Right now, DBD has serious problems with matchmaking. Rank 20 players might literally have to sit through 45 minute queues just to get a game. That's what's gating new players, not red skillchecks that you might get a whole of twice for the entire duration of a single gen repair.
It's like that because BHVR screwed up the matchmaking when they - YET AGAIN - pulled another classic BHVR move of fixing something that wasn't broken and making a change that literally no one was asking for by changing how matchmaking works with SWFs and how the Rank Reset works.
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I'm not really "on the devs' side" when it comes to some of their balancing decisions, but I can't believe I'm actually going to defend the devs here.
Ok, so, first of all - like some people already pointed out, you don't have to be a great player at a certain game in order to be qualified to design or balance it.
I don't think some of you guys appreciate that these guys work on the game, it's their literal job to work on it. They're not sitting in a fun gaming room playing all day - they work all day, on this game. You should probably be amazed that some of them even want to hear the words "Dead by Daylight" after about 10 hours of working Dead by Daylight.
Being great at the video game also doesn't make you a perfect judge of it. Again, this was already said here but I'll repeat it.
There are a lot of high-skill streamers in this game (Fungoose, ScottJund, Zubat, OhTofu and so on) who have thousands upon thousands of hours in DBD and their skill kind of skews their views of it.
In his recent video about the Ruin change, Scott said that he knows he's probably going to be fine without old Ruin (he will) but that he recognizes it's not a standard that you can apply to every Killer out there because he literally plays this game for a living all day.
There are other streamers with insane hours and high skill who don't have as much clarity. They'll readily state that something is too strong because they have it too easy while it's a struggle for anyone who, y'know, isn't them.
Devs also don't have the time to become God Gamers and demanding that they do before they have a right to balance the game is very, very detached from reality.
They also don't make their decisions in a vacuum, so tying up Mat Walker to a gamer chair and forcing him to play DBD for 14 hours a day for three months isn't going to result in him immediately jumping out of the chair to rework all the maps (in just an hour, right?) on his own accord.
You do know that no balancing decision is one Rank 20 Survivor Main going "I want this" and the rest of the staff going "right away, my lord"?
I also like the "they have QA? wouldn't have noticed with how broken the game is!" argument.
Like, you have no idea how broken it was before the QA got to it. You don't know what bugs and issues QA found that never made it to the live version.
Also, there's deadlines and unforseen things that crop up when take something live because they weren't there in the tests.
Again, can't believe you guys are having me defend BHVR, but here you go.
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925208#Comment_925208
If I catch you, no matter what else has happened in the game, I am absolutely entitled to that kill. You want a 4 man escape, don't get caught. I've had survivors use a pallet at the exact right time to escape, and I compliment them on the good play. Borrowed time is a crutch perk that allows you to be lazy
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925214#Comment_925214
There are a few problems with your argument. Auto aim being one of them, body blocking is another, which is another problem of auto aim. You can't get two hits off in the unhook animation.
That flashlight 100% happened when I looked at the wall, and I'm not the only killer to have noticed that. If timed right, there is 0 chance to look up.
I play solo a lot. Easy points, easy pips, slightly more difficult escapes. About the only time I lose is if I have really bad teammates. Match I played last night, the idiot fast vaulted the first window he saw, which drew the killer right to me.
Ahhh... I don't know what you're trying to do, but...
Step one: go behind the unhooker.
Step two: smack unhooker.
Step three: recover from attack cooldown while they finish unhooking.
Step four: smack unhooker.
I have done that maybe a thousand times.
If there's a whole team bodyblocking you I don't see the problem - they're basically giving you free hits. Take some, then chase whoever will be easiest to down. Leave them down as long as you can see/know where the others are. Rinse and repeat.
I don't know if there's a bug with flashlight saves but if you're looking directly at a wall (a wall that is in front of you - looking at a wall that's 40 meters away isn't what we're talking about).
When in doubt, like I said, just leave the Survivor on the ground as a slug and search for the flashlighter. If they're around it's a 2-for-1.
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I'm a Killer Main who's been playing DBD since late 2016.
First of all, while bully squads do exist and I'm not suggesting the people in your first post's first example were just wholesome rascals, it's important for any aspiring Killer to learn to differentiate between getting outskilled/outplayed, having a Survivor use something that isn't really fair but also isn't really cheating against us and actual toxicity.
Borrowed Time, flashlights and pallets are things that exist in DBD in the same way that forks exist in the world outside of DBD - and in the same way, 99% of people's only use for forks is to have their dinner with them, but forks can be abused (someone could stab someone else with a fork).
Like our friend the fork, a Perk like Borrowed Time or an item like a flashlight are not inherently abusive and their use isn't automatically a toxic play.
Both of those things have very, very simple counters.
Flashlights can't happen when you're looking at a wall or when you're quick enough to look up/down and neither flashlight or pallet saves can happen if you just don't pick the Survivor up.
Borrowed Time is only a source of frustration for Killers who for some demented reason cannot understand that smacking the rescuer is far, far better than to wait for a Borrowed Time hit on the unhook. When someone goes to unhook in front of you, you smack them. When they complete the unhook animation you will have completed your attack cooldown animation and have been handed a free down.
And I'll tell you something more that you learn when you get past your first 1000 hours in DBD: As you progress in your career as a Killer you will learn to love flashlighters and overly altruistic SWFs!
They are 100% my favorite thing in DBD. I love flashlights! I can't get enough of them! A Survivor who just runs around after me with a flashlight, thirsty for a save (which they will absolutely never get! This isn't my first match, Claudette) is a breath of fresh air! That means all I have to do is bait the save attempt without actually picking the Survivor up and instead down the flashlighter as soon as they show themselves.
They're basically a 2-for-1 deal, flashlighters.
Overly altruistic SWF buddies bombing the hook before I even had a chance to complete the hooking animation? IS THIS MY BIRTHDAY!? That's almost 2-3 free downs waiting to happen, depending on what Killer I'm playing. Multiple people are going down or at least getting injured, guaranteed!
You see, the things you will learn to fear - actually fear - and hate seeing in a match, the things that will really, really frustrate you are not flashlights or Borrowed Time or Head On or teabagging or even broken god-loops... It's toolboxes, it's "Gens Before Friends", it's super-immersed stealthlords with Commodius toolboxes for whom this game is a gen repair simulator and their wet dream is to get 4 gens done in less than 3 minutes and sprint right out of the exit gates as soon as they can. People who reduce the game to about one fifth of what it's supposed to be.
To understand why Survivors play SWF at all (toxic or otherwise), only play Survivor yourself in solo queue for about 100 matches. By match 20 you will probably figure it out, though.
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I'm a Killer Main with over 1000 hours.
In my opinion, NOED does reward bad gameplay and is OP or at least badly designed.
I'm not a great player, myself, I consider myself to be more of an average player both as Killer and Survivor. I have played the game for a while and have been to Rank 1 as both.
It is my opinion that players who use and defend use of NOED overall are less experienced, with less understanding of the game.
I see a lot of Killers who simply don't know how to chase efficiently and do not understand what it means to apply pressure on a team and how to do it.
I've seen Killers committing to a chase against strong Survivors around strong loops (Coal Tower's main building into a chain of jungle gyms and back again) for 3-4 gens who then complain that gens go too fast.
And there's a lot of tunneling. I've been tunneled for an entire match by a Trapper who outright refused to change targets until he finally caught me (exit gates were powered by then). I've been chased pretty much for an entire match on Wretched Shop by a Killer who simply did not understand that the Hag is not a long-range chaser who can just run after Survivors with zero prep and that there are four Survivors to deal with.
A lot of this comes down to moving inefficiently during chases, not having the game sense to know what chases to take and what chases to just leave, when to slug, when to go back to a hooked Survivor, what gens to patrol and defend and which gens to sacrifice.
Again, I'm not saying I'm a master of any of these skills, but I do understand that becoming aware of them and keeping them in mind makes a huge difference.
I see Killers making huge mistakes all the time. Killers who seem to believe that every chase must end in a hook and who will run after one Survivor to the ends of the earth for minutes upon minutes.
Killers camping or chasing a Survivor to a hook and try to position themselves to hit the unhooked Survivor instead of taking a free hit (or even a down) on the rescuer, getting Borrowed Time'd, then tunneling the unhooked, getting DS'd and still tunneling the unhooked through a strong loop until they just lose.
If I chase someone for more than 15 seconds and the chase does not result in a hit or me getting at least one pallet out of the way, I ######### leave that Survivor and change targets.
If I get a map like Coal Tower, I will sacrifice the tower gen every time. If I chase someone on that map and they so much as glance at the direction of The Tower of Bullshit, I drop the chase.
If I chase someone and realize they're very good Survivors, they are not worth my time and I will try to catch them at another time through altruism.
There are areas on every map where you simply do not want to take a chase. There are some Survivors you simply have to give up on during the early game phase. There are gens on every map that are simply not worth the time to patrol and defend.
Yes, Killers overall are weak or at least disadvantaged compared with Seal Team 6 Survivor squads who know to split pressure and which gens to contest first. That doesn't mean we can't do anything at all against them.
Most Survivors out there are not Seal Team 6, however. Not even most SWFs.
None of this justifies NOED and anyone who compares NOED with Adrenaline simply does not understand the game.
If you think that you are completely powerless to slow down the gens without a Perk or that you cannot apply pressure at all because you are playing a weaker Killer, you are just not a very good Killer yet.
Yes, your ability to apply pressure will be harder and yes, sometimes the Survivors are just too strong - but that's how it should be: if the Survivors band together well, split pressure well and chase well, they fully deserve their win. It's not as fair if they're a 4-player SWF on comms who play the game like it's the Olympics, and those do have an unfair advantage over Killers - but play Survivor in solo queue for a week and by Tuesday you will fully understand why they exist.
It's true that you will probably lose automatically by going against those, but even they are not unbeatable and you can at least play well and get something out of that match - and yes, Seal Team 6 squads can be beaten. With good pathing, rotation and a bit of luck.
Am I personally confident in my ability to do so? No, but do I think that the one Seal Team 6 squad I'll face out of a dozen casuals who run around like headless chickens justifies NOED? Absolutely not.
There are characters like Legion who are simply very weak right now. That said, I have 4k'd as Legion in the purple ranks against good Survivors and on a map that was terrible for me and they didn't get to power the exit gates at all.
Is it because I'm a god? ######### no, I'm a potato. I managed to seize on their mistakes, kept a cool head, changed targets, applied pressure on multiple Survivors and minded my rotation.
I know a lot of you will eat my head now and completely disagree with me, and that's ok. Without sounding conceited, some of you simply have less time in the game. I was just like you when I had 200-400 hours. Just like growing up in real life, there are phases you just go through. When you gain more experience and understanding of the game, you might see things differently - and maybe not, and that's ok too. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if you think that everything I said is false and NOED is the bomb, then I wish you all the best.
If I can give newer Killer Mains some advice, I would say: Watch experienced streamers, keep playing the game, try to gain a wider understanding of it. Play Survivor for a while to learn the game from our prey's perspective. Don't be afraid to play against strong Survivors and don't sink into a pit of bitterness and despair over a bad match. We all make mistakes and there's always room for improvement.
Consider bad matches a learning experience. Don't lose your head because a Survivor teabags. Think of the game more like a strategic match, like chess. Look back at your own matches and try to analyze them objectively - what have you done that might have been a mistake? How can you improve next time? What should you have done instead of what you did?
And if you feel yourself relying on any one Perk, try playing without it for a while.
And finally, Brothers and Sisters in the Entity, may your feet never know Haddonfield and your hooks always be warm.
Good luck and see you in the Fog.
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@DocOctober said:
Indeed, it's almost as if the game expected you to use juking and losing line-of-sight to win chases.
Just lose line of sight against Bloodlust 3. EZ.
Just "juke" and disappear by way of pure magic. EZ.
You must be one of those God Survivors. Can we watch some of your matches to learn your sorcerous ways?
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The Spirit does not "mindgame" - the Spirit has guessing games.
Example:
You're getting chased by a Spirit, she is now standing still while looking at you.
There are three possibilities:
- She is phase-walking towards you.
- She is phase-walking from one side or another.
- She is literally just standing still, waiting to see what you do.
(There's also a bonus possibility that she's phase-walking but leaving you entirely).
You, as the Survivor, have no way to determine which of these things is happening.
You can try to listen for footsteps, but there's chase music drowning all sounds in your ears unless you have some kind of You Have Too Much Money headset (and if you do have them, it doesn't make you a better player because without those headphones, you're in the same boat as everyone else).
Also, footstep sounds are inconsistent, not only because BHVR keeps breaking sounds every patch (I remember one patch where they somehow completely removed those for a while) but because sometimes, you just won't hear them.
This can be because of background noise (other Survivors walking around, gens chugging, whatever else) as well.
There is no "mindgame" here, just a zero-sum guessing game.
There is some measure of guesswork in every mindgame, but the Spirit is all guesswork and there is absolutely no skill involved in evading her - just luck. You have to guess right, but you have no way of knowing if you got it right. and if you get it wrong, you're dead.
Worse, it basically comes down to "do you have Iron Will?", plus an Exhaustion Perk that you can utilize before you get hit out of thin air.
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@RakimSockem said:
......that's it I guess.
Just saw someone say this in another thread and I know I shouldn't take half the people on here seriously but...... huh?
What.... exactly should survivors be doing? Running straight lines from pallet to pallet, slamming them and moving on? That MAY keep you alive for 2-3 gens if you're lucky but then everyone who gets chased after that is dying in 30 seconds or less.
Are we really throwing around the word "exploit" for people who don't run in straight lines?
First of all, yes some people use words "wrong". This is especially true for younger or less experienced people who are trying to be part of the conversation but don't fully understand the concepts behind the words being used - and to some extent, we all do it in one way or another and at one time or another.
Technically, they are correct. Let's have a deeper look.
So first of all, let's establish what "Exploit" means in a video game.
Broadly speaking, an Exploit is using something in the game in a way that was not originally intended by the developers in order to gain an advantage.
This includes items, hit boxes and level design as well.
So technically, yes, looping is an exploit because it is taking advantage of level design in a way that the developers didn't originally anticipate (early gameplay footage of the devs playing DBD clearly shows no looping).
Now, obviously, those of us who have been in the Fog for a while know that "looping" (or "efficient movement during a chase") is part of the core gameplay. Even though the devs themselves didn't think of it originally, it's something that has become prevalent enough to be core, something that the players "canonized" and we as a community have learned not only to expect and accept as part of the gameplay, but have largely moved away from seeing it as an exploit or as griefing or bad-mannered gameplay.
In general, perceiving looping (by itself) as toxic behaviour or mean-spirited gameplay is something that is associated with newer players who don't quite understand the game yet.
I don't even really think of it as "looping" anymore, I think in terms of pathing and efficient movement.
The only thing that I think I, as well as others who have played DBD for a long time, still think of as "toxic" or at least not entirely wholesome gameplay is looping a particular feature that is very, very strong and thus very, very unfair to most Killers. We're talking specifically about things like the God Window at Ironworks, Torment Creek or Suffacation Pit.
Even then, though, most experienced players have learned to deal with the window (Trapper) or just avoid that window for most of the match.
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Uhm, that looks like they were memeing?
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@GenSim12345 said:
Nurse is balanced. but nurse with extra blinks? Nope. Just gonna hide in the locker thank you very much.
inb4 Iron Maiden. 😎
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As a Nurse Main who also plays Survivor I agree that Nurse is not as OP as a lot of people think.
There's more counterplay to a Nurse than people believe.
Even after 900+ hours in the game, I'm not the best Nurse around (ironically I'm a better Billy than I am a Nurse). I know I can get juked, I know Survivors can lose me and corn is pretty much gg.
SWFs can absolutely destroy me and I struggle to catch up with the gens - I do feel that I have more ability to deal with those things as Nurse, though.
I wouldn't say that Nurse automatically nullifies all defense systems Survivors have, but she certainly makes some of them less safe for Survivors to attempt and she can nullify safety in many situations.
That said, the Nurse relies a lot on prediction and line of sight.
Breaking line of sight and juking are better armor for a Survivor than pallets, when it comes to countering a Nurse.
Taking advantage of situations where the Nurse has to guess where a Survivor is and putting as many line-of-sight blockers between you and me is the best way to extend a chase and even lose a Nurse.
Getting chased by a Nurse can be fun once you get the hang of juking her - and it can be fun for the Nurse as well.
ScottJund once said that he believes that the primary thing we enjoy about Dead by Daylight is that feeling we get when we outplay an opponent.
To me, this can be almost like chess - that feeling you get if you've made a really good move that makes your opponent go "oh, that was clever..."
When you're cat-and-mousing and both of you have to try and guess what the other would do, and counter their move with your own, that's a lot of fun.
I do want to add that the experience of Dead by Daylight has a lot to do with who the player is and how they play, rather than which character they're playing.
Personally I play very fair, I try not to tunnel or camp and I don't bring Ruin or NOED or Mori's - but there are many Killers who bring Ruin, NOED, 5 Blinks and an Ebony Mori and then just tunnel and camp all match.
Who here has never faced an InstaSaw Ruin Billy with Bamboozle who went Insidious in the basement?
Speaking of Addons, I do believe that some of her Addons are OP, though, but I hear those are getting reworked in the future.
Omegablinks (range addons) and Extra Blinks, in my opinion as a Nurse Main, are things that should not be in the game. For the most part I don't run any Addons on my Nurse at all and this definitely makes her weaker/fairer to deal with.
Extra Blinks should just not be a thing in the game at all. Baseline Nurse has a Gap Closer and one Blink to Correct. When you add more Blinks you have Gap Closer and then Correct, Correct, Correct... that's really nonsensical.
Everything I said above in defense of the Nurse and how fun getting chased by one can be just flies straight out of the window when those Addons enter the picture. Now a Survivor's potential to juke and outplay the Nurse gets less and less until the point where it's completely nullified.
Extra Blinks take away counterplay (although, I did manage to evade a 4-Blinker once who used all four Blinks on me and that felt ######### amazing - she just caught me later because how many times can you successfully juke within a 3-second window?)
That's my opinion.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
Region lock is for a better ping (40-80ms) but they should let us choose at will like some games do (FFXIV , Doom , Fortnite).
I play FFXIV Online too. Those are Dedicated Servers, though, aren't they? Like, the data centers they have multiple servers for America, Europe and Japan and their various servers (Lamia, Ragnarok, etc)?
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This Killer is so utterly OP, anything less than a hardcore SWF just gets obliterated. Especially when perks like Hex: Ruin and BBQ are being used.
Here's a challenge/experiment for you:
Play Billy yourself for 100 matches, which you will record (you can upload as unlisted videos to YouTube).
Conditions:
Match Result: You must kill all four Survivors every match. Since you're playing an OP character, this should not be a problem.
Perks: You may use any Perks but you must play at least 25 matches without Perks and you may play more matches Perkless if you choose.
The reasoning is that you're asserting that the character is OP, not the Perks.
Addons: You may use any Addons in any combination, but you may not use the same combination for more than 2 matches in a row and at least 25 matches must be played without Addons.
The reasoning is that you're claiming that the character is OP, so just the character with its bare base kit should be sufficient.
Offerings: You may not use any Offerings except for those which grant extra Bloodpoints (Bloody Party Streamers, Survivor Pudding, etc).
You may play up to 10 matches as "warm-up" matches before beginning the challenge and you do not have to complete the challenge in a single day but you cannot take more than 30 days to complete it.
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@grayon444 said:
I heard someone say it somewhere but i'm kinda lazy to read the lore so...Frank and Julie are in a relationship. We don't know much of anything about Julie. She's one of the Legion's cosmetics though.
We don't actually know anything about Susie or Joe, for that matter. They're Legion, it's about it. -
@Beverly said:
2 party streamers, survivor pudding, bound envelope, and escape cake. Killer disconnects during loading screen. Why are people like this?It sucks when people DC and yes, there's quite a few players out there who DC to derank or ragequit in the middle of a match - but there's also people behind the keyboards and sometimes a player might need to leave for reasons outside of the game.
Teenagers might be getting called away by their parents, adults might be getting called away by their spouses, they might suddenly really really need to go to the bathroom, the bank might be calling, their brother suddenly asks them to come help them with something, a giant spider might just have scuttled on the wall next to their computer, the dog might have gotten to some tasty paperwork and they now need to chase it and get it to give it up before it shreds something important and also requires a trip to the vet, boyfriend/spouse in the army finally got a signal and managed to call and they need to take the call now, their net literally crashed, DBD literally crashed on them, some other thing might have just happened...
Sometimes DC's happen, sometimes people just need to leave the computer now.
Don't always assume a troll or salty player is just being a buzzkill. -
@The_Crusader said:
Yeah you just need to kill them all. I think you still get it for disconnects, but not if only 3 load in. Add ons and offerings don't affect it. Not sure about moris.I got my achievements by using add-ons and map offerings.
Its probably just bugged. I've had some not work before. Its just DBD being DBD.
Also yeah gen rush is a thing right now because of all the toys survivors are getting. The best toolboxes and BNP etc. Its rare to get a game that doesnt have at least 1 BNP or instaheal or purple key in it right now. Sure killers can get moris but heres the thing, survivors get points for using their toys, i.e. doing gens and staying in the game longer via instaheals. Killerd get less points by using moris over 3 hooking. Killers also cant pull out OP add-ons mid game like survivors can via chests.
So yeah its a bit survivor sided at the moment but oh well who can say they're surprised?
Thanks for that!
And I do agree.Just as a small update: I finally did get the Achievement today! I can't corroborate what you said about the Addons and Offering, because I didn't use either just to be on the safe side. If it's bugged, at least I can attest that I managed to get the Achievement by using no Addons or Offerings
Well, we've been in this movie before with the same sound bugs around the time patch 1.4 or 1.5 came out and introduced the horrendous occlusion (I remember when you basically couldn't hear a Survivor crying while standing injured because they were behind a box or something) and not too long ago another patch broke the sounds and took away footsteps.
I'm sure these will also be declared low priority and get fixed in a month or two - sadly, I don't think keys and toolboxes are going away during our own lifetimes. -
@SnakeSound222 said:
The achievement will pop only if nobody escapes. Merciless doesn’t matter anymore, the devs just need to update the descriptions.Except I did kill them all, it was a Merciless as well - didn't get the achievement.
I'm guessing it's because I used Addons and an Offering (Bloody Party Streamers) and whatever yahoo coded that achievement decided to make the "with nothing but her 3 Perks" part literal, applying not only to Perks but to Addons and Offerings as well.That's the only explanation I can think of as to why I would be denied the achievement when I got a Merciless Killer event while killing all Survivors in the match.
@SnakeSound222 said:
I think players are being sweatier because it’s an event and they enjoy screwing people out of BP.The amount of keys is just really stupid. They shouldn’t have increased the chances for them when they changed the boxes, but it’s what Survivors think is fun and the devs will do anything to keep them from complaining.
I really don't understand that attitude that some people have.
And about keys, honestly that item should not have existed in the first place. Survivors have too many second-chance tools and ways to completely turn the match around by lazily clicking a button already. They don't need a "end the match early and auto-win because item" ability as well.@PhantomMask20763 said:
I got the achievement when Spirit first came out. Legion on the other hand is a pain to get.The funny thing is that I have Adept Legion.
@PhantomMask20763 said:
You know what's worse though... adept nurse in console.... yeah I'm never getting that one or adept huntress
I feel very bad for console Killers. I play on PC and I know that in the internet there's the whole "pc vs console" attitude, but console play is just so bad right now. Killer is simply not designed to be played with a controller, despite a few devs insisting otherwise (and you can see what happens when they play with non-devs and try that #########) and that's without adding the console framerate, lag and sensitivity issues on top of that, plus the way that controllers seem to give you about 90% less hit detection (I've seen some mind-blowing whiffs-that-should-have-hit on console play).
The fact that you can't turn your camera quick enough is crippling to the Nurse, while trying to hit a hatchet with a controller looks like an exercise in "how long can I keep this up before I ragequit life itself".
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@Chi said:
But I really have to say, gen rush is not a thing. Bad map pressure is though, and if you use Ruin, you are relying on a perk to set out that pressure for you. Which in the end makes you too used to it, and unable to play without.You're right, I'm not the best Killer. But you know what? I have been playing this game and watching it being played by others long enough (again, I'm not the most veteran in this game - I joined in late 2016, during a free weekend right around the time the Hag was the newest, freshest Killer).
And what I have learned during that time is that gen rush is a very real thing.
Gen rush isn't just Survivors doing gens, it's not just a Survivor who isn't out there spinning in circles and trying to get the Killer's attention. - it's Survivors making the active decision to prioritize gens over everything else.The Depip Squad was marth88's experiment, which you watch in this link in case you're unfamiliar with it. It's a bit outdated in terms of how much the game changed since then, but the core gameplay remained the same.
What I can tell you from my experience is that as a Killer you cannot _"put pressure" on Survivors if they don't _willingly choose to acknowledge your "pressure".
I've been in situations where I've had one person on the ground, one person on a hook, a third person and the last Survivorin a chase and gens still get done before anything else.Survivors' ability to reverse whatever "pressure" you think you're putting on them is much more powerful than your ability to control them. They decide the pace of the match, not you - no matter how many hooks, slugs or chases you get into. If they're an efficient team, they will do gens over anything else.
I mean, people can't tell me gen rush doesn't exist when I routinely see injured Survivors committing to a gen in front of me. When I have two people hooked and the other two Survivors choose to do two gens before sending only one person to the rescue and having the other one get to a new gen and the unhooked immediately running to a different gen over healing.
Short of mystically teleporting to every Survivor and hitting them all simultaneously, there is nothing in your ability as the Killer to put pressure on the entire team - and an efficient team will always have as many people working on gens as possible.
You can kind of pressure solo squads, because without coordination they don't have the "Jim, I'll go for the save, you keep working on a gen. Also, I was working on a corner gen that was at about 60% in case you finish yours before I can get back to it". Solos have the "I wonder if anyone is saving that guy, I should leave my gen and go look" thing.
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@touchpadgamer said:
Here's what you have to do:- activate your power
- hit SurvivorA (a survivor who hasn't had Deep Wound applied on them) and apply Deep Wound
- within the same frenzy, hit (down) SurvivorB (a survivor who already has Deep Wound affected from a previous frenzy attack)
What!?
That's insane.So the achievement not only doesn't count when you down a Survivor with Deep Wounds outside of a Frenzy, but it requires you to have two different people with Deep Wounds within the same area and down one of them in the same Frenzy?
This isn't just random or challenging, that's actually detached. Even with Frank's Mix Tape you can't do that.
You need the first Survivor to be around with a depleted meter when you hit the second Survivor and immediately get the first Survivor? That's... Unless you're in a farming match, I just don't see it happening. At all.They need to change this achievement, it's not realistic at all. I thought Skilled Huntress was ridiculous, but this is... Even worse.
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@Unnamed_Freak said:
The text of the achievement is bugged, it's not the right definition.To gain this achievement you need to:
- Select Legion
- Activate Feral Frenzy
- Hit a survivor
- Hit and down a survivor that already had Deep Wound.
But I was downing Survivors who had Deep Wounds and none of it registered for the achievement.
I don't understand, am I expected to still be in Frenzy when I down them? Because I did down Survivors who had Deep Wounds applied both when I was in Frenzy and normal M1 - they had Deep Wounds applied though.
What...
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@Arsoul said:
Tell me, we have David and Jesus, I mean Jeff. If they were in a match together against Legion, who is human be all accounts. Why can the survivor not just gang up and kick his/her a$$.
The trapper I get, bit strong killer, Nurse, teleport powers etc, ok. Billy...might not take on a chainsaw and Hag is....well that aint human. You get the idea.
If I was personally in a match against Legion I would make him/her become the survivorYou're right, totally illogical.
While we're in the realm of logic - how come the Trapper (who is a giant, undead slasher) is incapable of simply grabbing a Survivor and bludgeon them into a wet mess on the ground? Or just hack their limbs off? Or just outright kill them?
All the Killers in the game have weapons. How come if I hit a Survivor right in the head with a throwing hatchet, they get a magical speed boost and continue to run, loop and function like they did before, instead of falling instantly to the ground, convulsing and dying?
How about those chainsaws? You think it makes sense for anyone to take a charging Hillbilly to the spine and all it does is just put them in nap mode?
Speaking of David and Jeff - what the hell does either of them know about repairing generators? How come Jeff can run across the entire map without just collapsing from exhaustion?
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@MuteNewt said:
The aura blocking was needed in order to restore the core value of the game. Which is hide and seek.No.
When Dead by Daylight first came out it was said to have been inspired by games like Hide and Seek and Tag. In the months following release, most people overwhelmingly demonstrated that they vastly prefer the "Tag" part to the "Hide and Seek" ("Immmmmeeeerrrrssssseeedddd!") part.
The reason being that the Chase is where the most of the interactivity and play-and-counterplay come in and when you play the game like it's Splinter Cell you are mostly frustrating (=boring) the Killer and turning the game into a single-player game.The reason Stealth gets a lot of grunts and growls from us Killers is because Stealth in this game is completely out of whack.
In your mind as a Survivor you might think that Stealth is a contest of skill and cleverness on the Survivor's part versus the Killer's attentiveness, a discerning eye and a sharp mind that can deduce which hiding spot the Survivor is in.
In truth, none of those things are ever factors in DBD Stealth play, at least for Killers. First, because of the way things like sounds were implemented in this game (occlusion, X/Y, sound direction, volumes and the goddamn chase music blasting Killers' ears are all things that keep getting broke one way or another - this in a game where sound is so important).
Second, because finding a hidden Survivor isn't at all about deducing likely, possible or clever hiding spots.Let's do a "test", yeah? in a particular area you might have the shack (so four walls with three openings, gen in the middle, basement, stairway, basement inner wall, six lockers), a jungle gym next to it (four walls with three-four openings, another short wall behind them, two lockers), a large rock, a few trees with tall grass patches between them and a couple of short walls adjacent to the map's outer wall just behind the shack itself. On the other side there's also some low walls (no pallet, just debris) and a tire pile (about as tall as a standing Survivor).
Tell me where the Survivor is hiding - I picked a spot in my head and I will commit to it, but you have to guess.The real answer to this "riddle" is that it doesn't matter what your guess might be, as one or more Survivors could be hiding in literally any of these spots - or none of them. There is no Sherlock Holmes-y aspect to searching for a hidden Survivor - you either randomly find them or you don't, they're either there or they're not.
Stealth play can be exciting for a Survivor... for a time, here and there, in small doses. But if the Survivor persists and remains overly stealthy, the only thing that happens is that you're boring the F out of the Killer. They're playing a single-player game now, one that is essentially a walking simulator with no story or interactivity.
Stealth is the opposite of interactivity - it's denying interactivity. It's refusing to interact. It's trying your hardest not to play the actual game that takes place between players instead of the singleplayer game between a player and the M1 button on a generator.
@MuteNewt said:
Just a friendly reminder that there was a time that myself and so many other killers didnt have B&C and all other aura reading perks we are spoiled with these days.Spoiled, am I?
I've been playing this game since 2016.Not sure what your point is, except to complain about BBQ & Chili, which has several counters any Survivor can use to escape it (remind me, what's the counter to Object of Obsession? Oh yeah, there isn't one - 'cause balance, right?), plus the fact that most Killers can't use the knowledge BBQ gives them in time to do anything about it. Only Nurse and Billy can and even they can just get juked before they get there unless the Survivor just sits there.
@MuteNewt said:
There was plently of 4k games then and there will be plently more today. Please stop complaining about features that are restoring balance and fun to the game.So in your eyes, an SWF that brings someone with Object of Obsession (and aura-range-increasing effects) who goes locker hopping every time they use their wallhacks on you is fun and balanced.
It's fun to be constantly monitored by a coordinated group of gen rushing hiders. AND IT'S BALANCED.
It's fun to try and mindgame a Survivor during a chase, only for that Survivor to be told exactly what the Killer is doing at any given time, thus defeating the mindgame through actual cheating (we're going to touch back on the anti-SWF-on-comms argument due to the part in the game rules that says you cannot use 3rd party software to gain in-game advantages). AND IT'S BALANCED.
It's fun to play a Killer who is designed to be stealthy and have the entire stealth element taken from you. AND IT'S BALANCED.I'll not say the two words that come to mind right now because I'm trying to be as diplomatic as I can, so I'll just say that the next F-word featuring in my mind right now isn't "FUN".
Honestly, why are you even playing a multiplayer game at this point?
Just play Splinter Cell or Thief or Dishonored or something. Thief: The Dark Project was an amazing stealth game - go play that. -
Latest video by scottjund linked here in this text just says it all.
Which is sad, because I love the character design (the Susie cosmetics are my favorite, but Joe looks awesome too) and the pallet-vaulting madness. -
@Kwanghyun said:
No wonder that ass killer is in the current top 3. He have basically no terror radius with monitor and abuse even at tier 2. basically he's a better wraith who don't even need to decloak and have instadowns when he needs io. Give him normal terror radius at tier 2 since his as trong as a trapper in that form, so M&A wouldn't make him bull$hit to play agains.Honestly, the more posts like these I see, the more I figure that some people play DBD for like 20 hours total across 7 months or something.
And only play Survivor.
At Rank 20.
In KYF.
With one other person.
Who is AFK.I'm going to assume that this post isn't the obvious bait that it is and just answer as if it was a real concern raised by an actual human who isn't giggling to themselves right now.
I'm not going to go into specific mechanics about Myers' terror radius or lack thereof, I'm just going to mention that Survivors have a 3rd person camera that they can rotate around at any time. Survivors can therefore achieve such inhuman feats as being able to see a mile behind them while focusing on repairing a gen and facing the wall.
You can even look around corners and align yourself in such a way that you have perfect spatial awareness and can see Myers well before he is within stalking distance.Furthermore, Myers has a plethora of weaknesses that range from starting the match moving at almost the same speed as Survivors (slowest non-Nurse Killer in the game) and having the lunge range of a particularly ambitious poodle... using only his paw.
In order to leave this hellish experience, Myers must waste a lot of time chasing Survivors and trying to stalk them - because Survivors who don't just play the game at Rank 20 with their AFK roommate don't just sit obliviously and let Myers stalk his way to Tier 2. They see him coming ahead of time and starve the ever-living f$%^ out of him by breaking line of sight and getting more and more distance on him until he's forced to try and juggle "stalk feedings" and hope that the next Survivor he tries to sneak up on just happens to not be rotating their camera in his direction.After leaving the god-awful Tier 1, Myers is now an uncloaked Wraith with minimal terror radius (if using both M&A with the Dead Rabbit addon). Whether or not he can pop Tier 3 is irrelevant since in both "forms" Myers has all the loop-countering potential of a particularly frustrated Hillbilly. In other words, we're back to poodle comparisons.
To put it diplomatically, Myers is extremely allergic to looping. Like most Killers. He has the threat of an instadown but that threat doesn't mean much if he can't get a single hit by the time 60 seconds have passed. Even if he can, he will usually lose 1-2 gens to a decent looper on most maps and after getting a hook he has no ability to rotate fast enough to stop more gens from popping.
Myers is at best a "mid-tier" Killer - he has a.... pretty good tool in the right situations, but it has a lot of dependencies and factors that come with it and he has no map control or mobility beyond that of an uncloaked Wraith / Trapper with no traps / Hillbilly who forgot his chainsaw at home / that poodle again.
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@Poweas said:
I made another version of this but that is outdated as hell so here's my new one.
Top tier OP
1. Nurse (she's always going to be at the top unless the next killer is more powerful)
2. Hag (my boi hag was second best for a while but she's not as good as Spirit right now. Definitely better than Billy imo)
3. Billy (Ok he's not second best anymore and the antiheal meta makes him nowhere near as good as Hag or Spirit and some are having trouble accepting that Billy isnt 2nd anymore and Hag outshines him)
4. Spirit (she was meant to be below Hag and Billy, she's more effective than both in chase since there's little counterplay to her but she isn't stronger since they can both apply more pressure than Spirit.
Mid tier
1. Myers (he's really good and this antiheal meta has put him above most the other killers since Myers is one of the best killers at catching healing survivors with a Nurses calling).
2. Clown (He's just amazing and this antiheal meta makes him so strong.
3. Pig (a killer who can counter loops, sneak up on survivors and slow the game down all in her base kit. She's just amazing and can do so much with this new meta)
4. Wraith (He's a surprise to be this high up but he counters loops, blocks pallets, has decent map pressure and enhanced hearing in his BASE. Then with the windstorm addons he's pretty strong and he can actually kill now ^^)
5. Huntress (she's literally only this low because of her movespeed and how an experienced survivor can loop her easily like literally with no struggle)
6. Trapper/Doctor (they both just about made the mid tier and they both need buffs. They're both super scary but they are weak and easy to counterplay.)
Bottom tier
1. Leatherface (my boi is no fun to play, you can loop his power and he's rather weak can someone suggest a buff for him to me)
2. Freddy (I hope his buffs are as good as I think but not too much that he'll be stronger than Nurse again since he used to be sooooo strong he made Nurse a joke)."Hag better than Billy, Huntress, Spirit and Myers" - fu#$%^ LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
"Freddy will be stronger than Nurse AGAIN" - Words Written by Actual Human.
"Pig better than Huntress at countering loops" - !?!?!?!?!? I'm dead, man, I can't. I can't.Pretty Good Tier List So Far! xD xD xD
Nice comedy post. You're hilarious! I wanna see more material in the future. -
That's actually an interesting question I've wondered about, myself.
I think they can, because both Myers and Freddy were adjusted after they were released. Leatherface had small touch-ups as well. Bill Overbeck (who is a Left 4 Dead licensed character) and Laurie (Halloween character) had their Perks changed post-release as well - so one might assume they can make changes.
But on the other hand, licensed characters rarely receive changes and they're rarely big, so maybe any change involves communication with the license holders?I, for one, think that Pig (Saw license) is in sore need of some buffs.
I don't know if the Devs can answer the main question (are they able to make changes to the mechanics of licensed characters on their own accord) but I'd be very curious to know.