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@SammehStormborn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775672#Comment_775672
That’s true that it was probably just there. Weird way to de-pip either way - usually when you get survivors like that they make you aware of their presence 😂
Well it looks like an SWF group because of the weird ranking disparity (though to be honset I've been in similar matches where I'm the purple or red rank and I get pared up with gray ranks, and I don't SWF).
It's possible they were de-pipping but wanted to at least try to play the game in a different way while ensuring the de-pip.
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Must be a new meme thing.
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@johnmwarner said:
I keep seeing this ever since a certain Stream used it, I’m sure it was all used before but not this often.
my question, why is it with using 2+ slots when Thana and Sloppy together change a heal from (I may be wrong) 15 second to about 19 seconds—22 second depending on how many are injured. It’s about 4-7 seconds, yes it’s 7 seconds everyone they’re injured but mathematically I feel like other perks can save you that much time over the match anyways.
if I’m missing something or underestimating the impact please tell me I’m stupid and tell me why.
It's not the heal speed delay that is important.
It's the gen speed reduction.
The heal speed delay is just an extra bonus on the cake. The real benefit is that it turns a gen from being an 80 second thing to a 100 or so second thing (I didn't do the math) -- but it's countered by the fact that survivors just realized it's better not to heal altogether: the No Heal Meta.
The heal slow meta has actually been countered by Survivors not healing altogether, period. Which is actually a pretty nasty effect, but the result is gen speeds were rushed even further as a result. So it results in a faster match -- this is why Killers complain about genrushing, because the no-heal meta literally led to survivors just rushing gens. Killers thus had to kill rush as a response -- and that works because survivors are now one-hit instead as they don't heal.
It's a situation nobody wants.
BHVR has given survivors one other option for this: Inner strength. This counters Sloppy/Thana but is limited to five times for all survivors. So it's not a long-term solution. But I bet killers and survivors alike would prefer this over the no-heal meta which is also the gen-rush meta on its flipside.
The alternative is Thana/Dying Light, because Dying Light provides a much more powerful and tangible effect and when coupled with Thana really slows the gens down signficantly. But it takes time to get it up and running to a significant degree. Sloppy Butcher to be honest is not that important anymore, but I still see a lot of killers running it. Meta may change to this eventually but probably won't until some streamer popularizes it.
The slow heal meta resulted in Self Care being severely axed. Today there are still some holdover survivors who for some silly reason still use Self Care, but it's definitely fallen out of favor. Sloppy Butcher is starting to see that and will probably be replaced by Dying Light soon. People are already running PGTW instead, which is a stronger option for slowing gens down. Some people run the whole nine yards and pack PGTW, Thana and Dying Light. Really annoying build to go up against.
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Using "non-meta" is a nice idea until you ask the question: who determines what perks are meta?
This is too subjective and fluid to be worth programming into the game.
Probably the best thing you can do is setup a perk bounty. I've always said that the Daily Rituals are a way for BHVR to "encourage" people to play the role that is lacking. Of course I have no evidence of this other than my anecdotes. But perhaps every week BHVR will assign a perk bounty that gives a blood point bonus (maybe 50% or something) when you use a certain set of perks.
All in all I don't think it's an elegant or necessary solution.
Incentivizing the Use of less perks makes more sense. You're intentionally depriving yourself of a benefit, so you should get "more experience" out of it. Though I doubt BHVR will ever give more XP in this game, more BP wouldn't be a bad thing. Like, maybe an extra 10% BP for each perk slot and Add-On slot that's empty.
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It's a simple fix I'm sure no matter how bad the spaghetti code is, but it's probably not a priority of BHVR's. A lot of us brought this up a few patches back, I think it started happening around April or so since we actually used Calm Spirit, lol.
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@beatddb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774927#Comment_774927
This post really hurt you huh? Im sorry, but 3 people escaping at once with 2 gens left isn't fair.
And keys can't always be countered by Franklin's, because they spawn on chests.
And for mori's the killer has to hook people first, with the key you dont even need to do anything
It seems you don't know enough about the game to discuss this particular point.
You can't escape with 3 people when only 3 gens have been done. 4 Gens minimum are required for 3 people to escape.
@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774907#Comment_774907
Yup, 3 people escaping in that scenario is BS. Nothing like a hard fought match to spin in your favor because the gen placement is working out well. You're grinding out a comback and....end game screen. 3 out of 4 people magically escape because of a key.
Moris are discouraged in pretty much every way possible. Less points, less rank, shorter easier matches. Meanwhile there is zero negative to using keys and having 3 escape.
It also feels really stupid when you slam the hatch and someone escapes through it. At that point they might as well automatically win. Lets somehow patrol 2 exit gates and a hatch that can be opened in 1 second. There is nothing you can do about it.
You had plenty of chances to kill the keybearer. The devs even gave you a peak at the lobby so you could see the survivor equipping their key! I mean isn't there something called FRANKLIN'S DEMINSE that is specifically made for this purpose?
If you failed to do that it's your fault. You had all the chances.
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@Objectively_speaking said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774901#Comment_774901
How are Ebony Mori's unfair? They require the killer to Hook someone (do their objective) and then use. The logic you use for Mori's being unfair, while you believe keys are fair (because you have to do your objective) lacks validity in this argument.
And in my opinion, I believe both could get changed to be more user friendly for both sides.
Sure, let's talk fairness, because you seem to be arguing that Ebony Mori is a lot fairer than a key.
Let's look at how much work is cut out with an Ebony Mori.
In a normal game, you need to hook each survivor 3 times. That's a total of 12 hooks. With an Ebony Mori, you only need to hook them once each. 4 hooks. You just cut the work you needed to do by 66%.
Fine, let's count downs instead of hooks. By downs you are reducing the work needed by 33%. And reducing a lot of the back and forth walking to the hooks. Further, you can eliminate the first survivor very quickly just by tunneling him off hook. Reducing survivor count to 3 makes the game vastly easier for you. So it's 33% and then some.
Now how about keys?
A normal game requires 5 gens to be done.
For 4 people to escape, you need 5 gens done. No work was saved. Might as well just escape through the doors, frankly. Its easier. Looking for the hatch when the exit gates are powered is actually harder than just opening the gates and walking out.
For 3 people to escape, you need 4 gens. That's only a 20% reduction at worst. There is also no shortcut for the survivors. No walking time is cut down. IN fact, they need to walk a lot more to find the gen. And the logistics needed to get everyone there at the same time to jump into the hatch at the same time.
So for you to "lose" (3 or more survivors escape) the best case scenario is 20% reduction int he requirements. That's not even up to the 33% reduction for downs required by the killer on a Mori..
Now to "tie" with 2 escapes you need 3 gens done. That's a 40% reduction in work for the survivors. But all it ends up in is a measly tie. You still will likely kill two of them.
But you know what? Realistically speaking most of the time only one survivor will even get to the hatch. And in fact, many times the key is just wasted and none of them get to the hatch and you kill all of them! Its not even a guarantee.
Because using keys is not easy.
And yes, it's possible no gens are done and the last survivor still escapes. So what! The killer won. The killer killed 3 survivors. So one escaped. Big deal. Usually the killer will catch the guy with the key anyway. The counterplay to a survivor with a key is present.
There is no way to counter a mori. Other than to play an almost perfect game and nobody is ever hooked and downed more than once.
So yes, let's talk about "Fairness."
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Spine Chill helps up the frequency of the skill check, but the killer isn't exactly staring at you all the time. And if the killer is ever close enough to be starting at you your patient will probably be bolting away for safety.
Spine Chill doesn't really help Autodidact.
I speak from experience. I've run this combo countless times.
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Makes no sense to me. Bill has never been young.
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It's not useless, but it's not exactly a great perk. The problem is that you are at the mercy of RNG. And it requires a suitable investment before you even reap any benefits from it.
Trust me, I run Autodidact every now and then for variety and fun.
You need to heal about two survivors before you can even get to 3 stacks. A lot of the time I don't even get to hit 3 stacks the entire match. Sometimes you get lucky and get 3 stacks with just one survivor.
The perk also pretty much needs Empathy or at least Bond, without it the perk will likely go unused and wasted.
You are much better off running either Botany Knowledge or We'll Make It.
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So what is the problem with 4 people escaping through the hatch?
For that to happen all 5 gens have to be completed. The game's pretty much over by then, so what's the problem? (And the killer screwed up for that matter)
Have you even tried getting that achievement? It is freaking hard to do.
Keys are fine. They are nowhere near as OP and unfair as, say, an Ebony Mori. Keys are fair, especially after the EGC change.
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Bond, it's a curse!! You can see how pathetic your teammates are every step of the way!
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How about Strode Offerings with BL.
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You need LOS blockers. If you are out in the open... pray she is a bad shot. (they usually aren't)
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Wraith is definitely versatile. But most Wraiths I go up against tend to be tunnelcampers who use the "Eliminate 4th Survivor ASAP" strategy and they go for hook camping.
The scariest ones for me though are the ones who use Windstorm and Bloodhound/Predator. I can never juke them.
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A lot of us here have asked for crossplatform play. A lot of us proposed it as a solution to the terrible matchmaking and queues. It makes sense PC has more killers than survivors and Console from what people are telling me has more survivors than killers.
It's unfortunate but BHVR probably doesn't have the expertise to do it.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774366#Comment_774366
Just Wraith with Make Your Choice.
It's not wrong to think low of Wraith, but they feel way too relaxed when a good Wraith runs MYC.
It's not uncommon for me to always have someone on the hook using it, and 1-hit Surprise attacks prevents enough chases altogether.
These things usually provide the pressure i need, plus Windstorm really helps if you want to immediately catch the unhooker, besides just being a good option to apply more pressure by patrolling.
I have never underestimated Wraith. I hate him the most actually. Remember the poll we had a month or so back on who is the Killer you hate to verse the most? I voted Wraith on that poll, over other killers I don't like to face like Spirit, Doctor and Plague.
Why? Because Wraiths are practically impossible to juke. And Wraith mains (especially in lower ranks -- and well that's where Wraiths tend to be :D) tend to be campers and tunnelers. If Wraith wants you on the hook you are going on that hook sooner or later. And usually you're never gonna get off it.
While it is 100% true he is susceptible to looping, all loops close eventually and palettes will get broken and depleted soon enough.
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In theory CI is, but in practice (especially against Solos) survivors never hide against it.
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Hiding is the correct play against Corrupt Intervention. If everyone hides at the start you lose nothing because it's unlikely for the killer to find you.
This almost never happens in Solo games though and requires an SWF to really pull off.
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If you want slowdown IMO the best perk load out is: Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Ruin and PGTW.
Combining Ruin and Corrupt is counterproductive in my opinion. By using Corrupt you are encouraging your survivors to not do gens and instead hunt for the Ruin totem. If the Ruin spawned in the far end from you where the blocked gens are the Survivors will likely find it while you are defending the open gens.
This is the worst case scenario: Ruin blows up, you don't find any survivors because they didn't do the gens you were guarding, and Corrupt wears off. Now you're down two perks with nothing to show for it.
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I wish keys had the Glass Bead addon, so you could leave beacons for people so they know to run to you if you find the hatch.
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Welcome to the PC Master Race, I had faith in you my son.
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I have never considered pipping to be a win condition.
Escaping is the win condition.
Killing survivors is the win condition.
Period.
You can have fun in other ways or set your own personal goals, but saying you can win in any other way is like playing basketball and claiming you win even if the other team got 20 points on you, just because "I showed up, did my best and had fun."
Sorry, that is not winning the game. It's a moral victory at best, but the actual act of winning the game is something else.
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Well you can have those loadouts even without SWF.
You just need to talk in chat to do it.
People will bring what stuff they want to bring into the match. Killers tend to have far more goodies to play with than survivors, because Killers get a ton more BP. Killers bring all sorts of bad news for the survivors in matches, too.
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@kone19 said:
I don’t know about high rank play but keys are not easy to come by. After a long time I still haven’t gotten more than 2 or 3 add ons for them. Hamstringing them by permanently closing the hatch especially when the killer has almost free reign to find it and its tendency to teleport would make the item a fairly poor investment. Maybe it’s that specific survivor that made it difficult to see but I just picked one up in my last game out of a chest and he held his hand out like there was an invisible door in front of him the whole time
Keys are easy to come by, but they aren't easy to use.
And I don't think they are ever unfair. You can't instawin with a key or dominate the match with it like you can with a mori.
Using a Plunder Build for tonight, In my last 6 game I got 5 keys. I haven't managed to escape with a single one of them. The killers were too good tonight.
Keys are strong but not unfair.
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I don't think hatches need any further nerfing. At least keys don't need to be nerfed in that way. I can agree that keys can be annoying as killer, but it sounded like a great match and you shouldn't feel bad about the Meg escaping.
Keys might be nerfed in other ways but the way it was used in this match was okay in my book.
Keys aren't even guaranteed to be used, so personally I don't think they're in a bad spot. It is very hard to use a key.
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@martin27 said:
I'm not even that great a looping full stop but i've had a decent amount of success of looping and disappearing rather then just running from loop point to loop point.
This is actually a different skill it's called Juking. It's a lot harder to do than looping but it will win you the chase if you manage to do it.
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I would say Saboteur.
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Killer is 100% playable without Ruin. Ruin just makes it a lot easier.
If you can't win without Ruin... sorry but "Git Gud."
I have never played a killer match with Ruin. Didn't even have it unlocked until like a month ago. I still almost always get from 2-4 kills, unless I'm just letting them go (which I also do depends on my mood -- ironically sometimes I let survivors go and they still die because no one saves them or they DC).
If you are having trouble without Ruin build for the endgame instead. For example, you can try a gen defense strategy. 3-Gen works well in lower ranks for instance and survivors tend to crumble and don't know how to win when you do this. You can also bring the NoEd or Remember Me, gets them a lot.
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I don't really understand what you're asking.
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Terrible idea.
Remember when killers were complaining about healing, so they nerfed healing across the board.
Then survivors started genrushing. And killers are 1000% unhappier now than when survivors were just healing.
Be careful what you wish for.
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You do realize you can slug the survivor if you're afraid of DS, right?
Why you are even afraid I'll never know. While some survivors can loop you for minutes on a single DS, those are very rare, super good survivors. Most can't.
And if you ever did run up against a Survivor who could loop you for 3 minutes per hit, then you already lost, DS or not.
And let's apply a little killer logic here, shall we?
The real issue with DS is that it is so good compared to every other survivor perk that it should be nerfed or removed because it makes no sense not to run it.
But when something is powerful like that, killers like to say, "Why nerf nurse, nurse is fine. All weaker killers should be buffed to her level."
Well let's see now, "Why nerf DS, DS is fine. All weak survivor perks should be buffed to DS's level."
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By the way I'm okay with making double BP baseline and removing it from BBQ. That works too. As long as survivors also get double BP baseline.
Survivors get far less BP than even killers.
You know who's not okay with this, though? BHVR. BHVR wants you grinding those gears baby.
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Finally! Someone who gets it. Adrenaline and DS, ask the dumb owns need to be fixed.
Should note DS already got its nerf.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773710#Comment_773710
4 Seconds for a killer is not nearly enough to be considered overpowered.
There are perks that gives a killer more than just 4 seconds of time. Perks like Sloppy Butcher, Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light. All these perks gives arguably more time for the killer than BBQ and Chili.
4 Seconds is not a good hill to die on.
It's 4 seconds each time plus what ever time it took them to reach the locker or get closer, then get back to what they're doing. 3x for each unhooked survivor. And it gives that ON TOP of the other many benefits BBQ gives. And it even gives that when you don't use BBQ!
Survivors will still give you those seconds even if you're not using BBQ because they expect it.
Face it. It's a loaded perk.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773709#Comment_773709
Stealth is not a logical alternative.
Stealth is a game survivors get to play, and an exercise in absolute boredom for killers.
"Oh boy is the survivor behind this rock? Nope! Are they behind that tree? Nope! Oh look gens got done and nobody has any points because someone finds it more fun to sit in a locker for 20 minutes than to play an engaging match!"
What's your suggestion then? If not stealth then we'll have to double down on looping, unless you have a better Idea.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773523#Comment_773523
lol seconds are only precious to killers, gens can go by so quick It is fine if a survivor is off a gen for a few seconds
And who do you think exactly gets seconds when a survivors loses seconds?
That's right... They go to the killer.
This is the kind of double standard thinking that we need to get rid of. If seconds are precious to killers, then obviously they are also precious to survivors because every second the survivor loses is a second the killer gains.
Come on.
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Because BBQ is so prevalent that it forces you to play with it in mind every time.
Which means either counter it and lost time or ignore it and just go for broke genrushing (which is what happens in higher ranks).
It doesn't matter in high ranks but it's a huge headache for lower ranks.
It's not healthy for the game that has already become increasingly hostile to survivor stealth strategies.
If we want to nerf looping and fix palettes BHVR still needs to provide alternatives so Survivors still have other tools to survive. Stealth is the most logical alternative.
Nerfing BBQ is necessary to make that possible. Otherwise looping will be here to stay.
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@Endstille said:
Hawkins is a fun map for survivors, no idea how you have trouble there it still has hilarious safe loops and time wasters for killers, if you are unable to figure those out and how to get there that is a you problem.
Perhaps you should explain where the safe loops are so he can improve his game.
If you can't then you're just blowing smoke.
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Unsafe pallets are fine. In my opinion most maps should have almost no safe pallets. There should only be two or three strong pallets and vault areas in a map.
BUT in return the devs should focus on making the game more stealth-friendly again for survivors.
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You don't need to tell me how to counter BBQ. I have played thousands of matches against it. Also the "counter" you mentioned isn't something a solo can do. How would a solo know that no other aura other than his own is visible? And a smart killer will know that someone is camping the hook in that case.
I am saying the aura reading needs to go. It is a too powerful perk that does too many things for the killer. It needs to be nerfed.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Ruin=run small game. BBQ=Go in a locker fool...
Also I wonder when Survivors will figure out that PGTW is way better than Ruin... Guess we'll see.
The bigger question is when will Killers figure out that PGTW is way better than Ruin.
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773459#Comment_773459
It is beneficial for you that killers get a 40m aura.
This promotes anti camping. If I see no aura on my bbq I will stay at the hook for a little while.
Actually BBQ promotes camping. Because it gives killers vital information on whether they should camp or not. Just like you said.
Removing the aura detection means killers have no idea if it's a good idea to camp or not, so they end up leaving the hook.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773459#Comment_773459
and that's where you'd be wrong! i use it for its detection ability all the time on every killer, as well as for bloodpoints. :P
I'm glad you are an honest killer!
So many killers here like to downplay BBQ and deny it's any good, saying killers only use it for the BP and not for the Aura Detection.
But the moment I suggest nerfing the Aura Detection they all go ballistic.
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@SteelDragon said:
BBQ is not that strong of a perk, it is used for its 2x BP REALLY, and it is countered by so many simple things.....
Ruin is needed if you want enough time in a game at low ranks if you want a chance at killing people, without ruin before you blink 2 gens are done. if you want to see ruin gone do 1 or both of these things
buff killers across the board to where they can apply pressure fast enough without the use of ruin
make it take longer for survivors to complete the objective to escape, THIS CAN BE DONE IN WAYS OTHER THEN INCREASING GEN TIME, like adding a second objective, adding more gens, etc etc etc.
BBQ wont go away unless its points bonus goes away, but that wont happen because it is not that strong it is just used for BP, and ruin is so needed because of how badly this game is balanced in the survivors side.
If people think than Ruin is a strong perk, then you should recognize that BBQ is a strong perk.
The many "simple" things you mention that counter BBQ are precious seconds Survivors waste hiding instead of doing things, like gens.
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Survivors should have the option to pray to a totem for a buff. The entity bestows them his favor. In return, the aura of a friendly survivor is revealed to the killer for a few seconds or so as they get cursed.
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@coppersly said:
Honestly I'd like to see the most run perks become baseline for both sides. WGLF and BBQ because they're both run so often.
Something needs to be done about the main objective in general, and once that's done we can work with ruin and perks like it.
I actually barely ever see WGLF run.
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@pernil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773288#Comment_773288
yeah cause thats not what happened to self care
You do realize that Self Care has been nerfed into Oblivion?
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The detection part of BBQ needs to be removed. I find this a reasonable nerf because Killers only use BBQ for BP anyway, not for its detection ability.
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Flashlights are worthless, only good for breaking Hag traps.