MisterCremaster
MisterCremaster
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@socalfusions said:
At the end of the day DBD is a game where toxic play is allowed and frequently practiced with notable examples being face camping, proxy camping, hard tunneling, last second key/item switch, tea bagging, etc. and my hot take is that no penalty DC is the closest thing BHVR can provide as an answer to these things. Tell me, how are they going to combat a face camping Bubba? It's literally uncounterable and should you be the poor soul that it unfortunate enough to go on the hook first then your gaming experience is simply not playing the game then dying. What's the solution? It's not Borrowed Time because he's got an add on that can swing more times than you can run with a speed boost after a hit. The solution is a no penalty DC. You're unable to play the match at all so instead of having to waste your precious time sitting on a hook you can DC and on to the next game, sure you can wait the hook timer out and buy your team some time to do gens but in all likely hood they will probably try to get you off hook and go down one by one in a rotating fashion. I never play out a match if I get face camped by a Bubba but I'll waste as much time as possible.
Honestly, the biggest problem with all of this is just queue times. Solve that, and having a bad match won't be a big deal. My friends play Fortnite a lot too, and we have bad games all the time. The difference is that it didn't take forever to get into the match. Waiting to die out, hang on the hook, friends to finish the game... isn't that big of a deal. The problem is we anticipated a good game for a long time while waiting for the match and then didn't have fun.
I don't know a perfect solution but some ideas that could be worked:
1.) The ability to swap out ONE perk after the match has started to handle toxic play. Like maybe you trade 2 of your perks to get a single perk of borrowed time to help against a camper.
2.) Ability for the killer to just open the gates and force endgame collapse. If they're getting bullied, clearly have lost, etc, just let them end the game. The DCing as a survivor is kind of stupid since you can play stupid and just get hung up right away and die.
3.) Ability for a slugged player to suicide or bow out and have a bot take over the game.
4.) With bullet points 2 and 3, match players who do this stuff regularly with other players who do the same.
Just a few ideas, none are perfect, but might help the situation.
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As I've seen in other threads, this change is set to severely hurt less skilled players. The fact that queue times went sky high since it's started is a sign of that.
Yes, some "gud" killers don't care but there are a whole lot of casual players that aren't interested in learning every loop, god pallet locations etc. In a game with better match making this wouldn't be a problem, because you'd get paired with survivors that also are more casual. But this has terrible matching and low level killers are paired with high skill survivors, get stomped and sign off, which only exacerbates the problem of queue times and fair matching
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A whole lot of people aren't playing killer this weekend. Expect queue times to be long.
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What sort of system are you running it on? For me it was terrible... major input delay, especially with the mouse on Chrome on a MS SurfaceBook2. When on Chromecast on TV there was still delay, especially with skill checks. The skill check clock was microscopic on my 65" 4k tv.
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I'd been meaning to submit that to the bugs for a while now. Its all kinds of messed up there, since I couldn't wiggle or anything after he picked me up.
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You mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKQQzscYM6c
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When?
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Why have you spent 3,230 hours doing an activity you do not find enjoyable, nor get paid to do?
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@ZCerebrate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662201#Comment_1662201
I actually like this idea - targetting a far off gen to release gas to make them scream (location reveal bubble), stop if not slow that gen progress completely for a few seconds while he slowly walks across the map, giving him enough time to Pop the gen as long as he is away that survivors are focusing a single gen instead of spreading pressure.
Would make a bit more sense than giving old Ken Jeff Chase Hawk teleporting powers like the demon IT since he's supposed to be a perverse human serial killer who collects trophies.
How about his secondary action is to blow up a balloon and attach it to the gen. He can pop the balloon trigger it to pop from afar, or a failed skill check on that gen pops it. Has same effect as his normal gas, and makes survivors scream.
Survivors can untie the balloon to have it float away, but it takes time.
Add-ons could make people injured from the pop, could allow for more balloons in play, could make them not be disabled, etc.
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I would play a lot of DbD on Stadia if I could take my PS4 progress with it... (Well, and if it worked better on Stadia but they'll get that ironed out eventually)
Cross progress between all the systems of play would be amazing. Own a PS4 but switching to XBox this generation? No problem. Going on a business trip, but can't take your PS4 with, play via Stadia on your phone.
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Doesn't work on Stadia... "This code cannot be redeemed on your current platform."
Boo.
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I'm sure this has already been said, but clearly the mistake was not slugging everyone. Everyone likes that, right?
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A lot of people are finding slugging more effective. Healing a survivor takes more time and triggers Nurses calling to find survivors. After everyone is slugged, hook them. I can't say I completely disagree that its an effective strategy, and that sucks.
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I'm genuinely surprised at the feedback here. And yes, a lot of the problem here is with SWF, its also with match making. If match making paired people up evenly this wouldn't even be a discussion, games wouldn't be so incredibly unfair. But the fact is, right now, they are, especially for mid and low rank killers who continue to get matched against red ranks and red rank swfs.
If BHVR can actually fix the system so that it can create even matches, I'll be more than happy and handicapping solutions might not be an issue. But as it stands right now, killer is incredibly frustrating and stressful. Queue times reflect this, since no one seems to want play killer, especially on PS4. If you are a red rank killer and you're going against me, _something is very wrong_.
I realize that there are two camps, those who think this should be a casual game (or say it is) and those who think its competitive. I've been on the forums long enough that I think most people will say its a casual game, but then counter posts like this with "git gud". I'm never going to be good. I have two kids, a full time job and loads of other responsibilities. I get it, maybe this game isn't designed for me since I don't have the desire or time to memorize map tiles and watch youtube training videos. I don't believe any game can survive long term if that's a requirement for having a good game.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, something needs to be fixed. This was my suggestion, since, if the state of the game is such that people with vastly different skillsets are going to matched against each other for what ever reason (lack of killers, lack of survivors, what ever), then BHVR seriously needs to do something to address that. I hope their new MMR system works, but I don't think it will. I think the solution is some sort of handicap system.
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I don't think the new system will work. I think they've just screwed up the killer experience so much that no one wants to play it, so the survivor queue times are either forever or they have to pit people against survivors way out of their league.
I just uninstalled the game again tonight after 4 games on a row as a rank 12 killer against red ranks swfs running circles around me. (Oh then they have to message me after the match - good times)
I don't know how the can fix it. You can't let survivors wait forever, but it's terrible as is. The ONLY way I could see fixing it if you give survivors a speed handicap based on killer skill level and swf.
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@toxcitynacl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141513#Comment_1141513
Had a SWF team where I was the only solo. I needed to do the headon rift thing...stun a killer using Headon. I go into a locker and this Dwight (they all had V at the end of their names so knew they were all SWFs) comes up to the locker I am in and starts opening and closing the door. I try to leave and he body blocks me. I finally get hooked and he then comes up to the hook and does the whole "I am unhooking you...now I'm not...I'm unhooking you.." He finally unhooks me as I get to the second stage. I get downed again eventually and I am dead. I get the killer to report him as I did...in fact I reported the entire SWF team. 100% sure nothing was done.
I mean, they were terrible teammates and I'd report them. I don't quite understand what the killer did here.
To be honest even this crap wouldn't bother me so much if queue times weren't so long. It's like one game in 50 this really happens to me, but they tend to stand out because it's just such a bad experience.
But getting games like that and then needing to wait forever for the next is terrible.
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@OtakuBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141513#Comment_1141513
In YOUR opinion. I literally have streams PROVING the killer had fun. If We all change our names to something with Myers and they play Myers we are going to have hope the killer is playing along. If they turn out to be friendly we meme but we still get gens done so the game doesn't last forever. That is why I have a ######### ton of DBD buddies who are Myers and GhostFace mains now that are helping me improve at the game. Not everyone is anal like you and feel the only way to have fun is to 4K iridescent hatchet slug.
Would you rather our 4 man survive with friends gen rush instead? I'm sure that's SOOO much fun and killer always love that. That's why we brun 4X BPS to gen rush the killer and play the game the way it's meant to be played. Nah man rather than having fun and getting a game that's a breath of fresh air just gen run the killers and making coordinated plays all the time. No slug racing, no hook rescue spam, no playing hide and seek with iron maiden, no playing peekaboo with the killer. Nope. Just purple toolbox new part gen rushing. Gotta live up to that 4 man SWF hype.
Actually be quiet. People like you who can't have fun once in a while are the reason this community is always at each others throats. Don't speak on behalf of others. You don't have fun like that, that doesn't mean others don't.
Woah son, calm down, and ease off those triggered fingers. There's a lot unpack here...
1.) It is my opinion. Thanks, Dude. I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone. I sure hope you don't need everyone to start their posts with "This is just my opinion..." in order for you to assume they're somehow speaking for someone else... that's... weird.
2.) If you're all changing your names (something we cant do on PS4 - its more difficult to imply intentions in the lobby), and you can know that the killer and other surivors are into it, sure fine. If you're a 4 man swf, you have 4/5s of the equation already figured out. The original post is about getting banned for working with the killer. . The actual bannable offense is working with the killer to the detriment of your fellow survivors. Agreed upon farming, playing around, practice, etc., isn't bannable, since no one is going to report it. What your describing is NOT working with the killer. If all 5 players are into it, go do what ever you want, but the second you get the impression that this isn't the experience they want then it should stop.
3.) You're selectively reading the part where I call you an ######### (which was my impression given the information you gave), because if you had finished the rest of the statement, you'd have read "Use good sportsmanship, and while you don't need to actively care about making the other persons MORE fun, you shouldn't be doing things to actively try to make their game LESS fun." Is your swf actively making their game less fun? If you know you're not and they're into it, fine, play on. But unless you know (and its easier to do that on PC than console) that the killer wants to play this way and the rest of the survivors who may not be in SWF, then you are still changing their expected/desired experience in the game, and thats not fair, and can be qualified as toxic behavior. What you're describing isn't being an ######### (sorry) if you know everyone is into it, but you didn't describe that in your original post.
4.) You're pointing out all the issues with SWF in one post, which isn't even on topic, so I'm just going to leave that.
As I said in point 3, the crux of the issue is working with the killer to the detriment of your fellow survivors. That is the offense that can be banned, and to answer the OPs question, YES, the killer should be banned as well if it was a deliberate and an established pattern.
There is lots of grey here - A survivor pointing at locker with another survivor in it and the killer picking the locker rather than chasing the other guy - thats an ######### teammate but I wouldn't fault the killer for taking advantage of it, i'd take the easy kill there. If the killer then continues to hunt the trader, game on. If the killer then follows that trader around and he leads him to the other survivors too, thats a ban for both.
A killer or survivor messaging each other prior to the game, going on coms with him, and then telling each other locations of survivors, perks used, etc... That is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT bannable.
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The original post and so many of these responses are just terrible...
@OtakuBurrito said:
Well no because if you're doing this I'm SWF why ban that person? If I'm in a 4 man group having fun, my friends know if it's Myers or GhostFace we're memeing.
Why should I be penalized for having fun and everyone is in on it? It's stupid.
Now if I'm solo and I do this yeah I see but not always. That's like banning someone for booping the snoot.
"Meming" = bullying a killer or making his experience less fun? Your being an ######### because the opposing player chose a particular killer. Just play the game. Use good sportsmanship, and while you don't need to actively care about making the other persons MORE fun, you shouldn't be doing things to actively try to make their game LESS fun.
@AAAAA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141452#Comment_1141452
But as killer, I don't know what a survivor's intentions are. I don't know if that person is farming or trolling or just stupid. And I try to be a positive person, so I never want to assume someone is breaking the rules. So in this case, giving someone the benefit of the doubt means assuming they're stupid.
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt? In any one of those situations - farming, trolling or stupid - the correct response if the ENTIRE group of players hasn't agreed to it, is you kill them. That's your job.
@Groxiverde said:
Hear me out. When a killer is working together with a survivor to kill other survivors, it shouldn't be bannable for the killer, only for the survivor, period.
The killer is just taking advantage of a "not clever" survivor to win the game.
So for example, if that survivor unhooks everyone in front of the killer without BT and the killer decides to focus the unhooked survivors and let the trolling survivor go (because the killer knows he will continue sandbagging other survivors), it should only be bannable for the survivor.
Change my mind.
Did you get banned for this? Because I have a feeling you've been doing this quite a bit to actually get banned for it. I rarely see survivors legit trying to farm or work with me as the killer, or maybe its just that I end up killing those fools right away since they're playing stupid.
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@T2K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139720#Comment_1139720
Still in relation to survivors its not fair. You still can manage to safety pip with 2 kills if you did well is just too less of a statement compared to a survivor who pips and died. And honestly no one ever cared about gatekeeper.
Gatekeeper is how many gens are done or not done? Trying to stop gens is so pointless. Maybe if they greatly increased the damage kicking them did it would matter, but until your down to 1 gen left, kicking is a waste of time.
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Oh man... theres a lot to unpack here...
"I hate getting a ban when u have to use the bathroom so u don’t wanna sit there in afk and let the killer get a free kill." - Why are you not relieving yourself prior to the match? Survivor queue times are like 20 minutes... Why aren't you just going into a locker, or to the edge of the map behind a pillar? I'm so confused by this line...
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I think one of the reasons the killer experience is so terrible is because the player base on some systems has already collapsed. Queue times on PS4 are terrible for survivor and as killer you get huge rank disparity.
The downward spiral has already begun
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1122704#Comment_1122704
"What does it matter if you get a fair match once every hour?" "No one wants to sit in a lobby for 15-20 minutes" "Killers should learn to get better/enjoy the current state"
That doesn't sound like getting better as killer. That sounds like "I don't want to wait 15-20 minutes for a game, so who cares if you get a fair match. Just git gud"
And for the record, if you're a casual killer, you don't get yellow or green survivors, you get bottom purple and reds EVERY SINGLE GAME.
I play to win, and if you have no chance due to broken matchmaking/broken game design, I will never have fun. Unfortunately, this is the only game of it's kind, so I don't have any other options.
I think there are a few others... but I haven't found one acceptable on PS4 yet.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1122721#Comment_1122721
I do play killer and enjoy it. Yeah, I agree that it’s a much more sweaty experience (at times) compared to survivor but that’s part of the fun. It’s challenging. I wouldn’t have fun murdering yellow rank players every game.
But you missed the point. You are saying, "I shouldn't have to wait 15-20 minutes for a fun even match", and thats true. Just go play killer, instant games. To deviate the match making to not be fair for the sake of time is stupid, since they are basically acknowledging the fact that they have far fewer players wanting to play "the power role". THATS what is making queue times so long.
I'm not saying it would be easy to balance it, but the idea of them simply hiding rank makes me think they're giving up.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1122584#Comment_1122584
I do think ping and wait time SHOULD take priority over fairness. What does it matter if you get a “fair match” once every hour? No one wants to sit in a lobby for 15-20+ minutes, more if the killer is a brat and dodges.
Killers should learn to get better/enjoy the current state or pick up a different game altogether. I’m not saying changes aren’t needed here and there, but if you don’t have fun playing as killer why stay in DBD at all?
I didn’t quit playing when I picked up DBD - I knew there was a learning curve and I overcame it. If you’re just a casual killer player then I’m positive you will get matched with green/yellow rank potatoes and an occasional SWF that has some red rank players. So what? Just play through it and learn from your experiences.
If you don't want to sit in a lobby for 15-20 minutes go play killer... because killer is consistently not as enjoyable an experience, and you know that.
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Its unsportsmanlike, and I think it could be easily fixed:
1.) Survivors see the aura of other survivors in the exit gates. This way, the 'waiting for my team to be safe' is gone. You know they're safe, you can get out.
2.) Survivors cannot perform actions in the exit gate. No dead hard, no healing, no snapping out of it. If you want to play risky at the end of the game you could have easily escaped for more points, you do it out of the exit gates where you can get meaningfully downed by the killer. (not just knocked across the finished line)
3.) Stop giving extra points for hatch escapes. Make hatch escapes FEWER points, so you don't have guys wondering around the map looking for the hatch instead of just leaving.
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@Carlosylu what system do you play on? Steam data shows its been fairly flat, but still a lot of players. I think PS4 player count has dropped severely though, since match making is absolutely terrible there.
I think BHVR is just in a bad spot at this point. If they actually manage a rank-less-skill-based MM system, it could be fantastic, but I just don't see that happening.
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Its a vicious circle. I'm not a high rank killer, and I constantly get pitted against red-ranks, which isn't fun... so guess what... I stop playing killer for a long time. I casually read my latest novel (Witcher books!) while waiting for a 15-20 minute survivor queue.
I think the problem is a drop in players, especially those willing to suffer through the killing experience. The fewer the killers, the fewer the good matches they can setup since they aren't going to make you red-ranks wait for a red-rank killer that may never show up.
Bottom line - make the killer experience better and you'll have shorter queue times and better matches.
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@Masterkit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113879#Comment_1113879
thats not the point you shouldnt suggest anything they can play as they please. i dont get these posts. if they dont want to "learn" they are not obligated to they can play as they pleased eventually theyll realize is not a good strategy or they may not it doesnt matter and shouldnt bother u do gens and leave.
Agree. People should play how they want. This isn't exactly new information, or a new game. If people are face camping you, or tunneling, its because they want to. After a two years of playing this game, I camp, tunnel, face camp, and do other "toxic" game play because variety is the spice of life.
I also think if a killer has to break a chase, they've already lost. Its one of the huge mechanical problems of this game. The devs decided to turn it into a game of tag rather than a game of hide and seek. Yes, chases are kind of the most fun part for either side, but gen rushing is real, and a killer chasing isn't getting any objective done, while the other survivors are. Breaking a chase just means you're letting a survivor go do a gen, and you probably STILL don't know where another survivor is, so you waste more time looking.
You say its OK to break chase but the bottom line is unless you know where another survivor is, your wasting your time to go look.
Its one of the major reasons why SWF communications are so terrible for the killer experience. If you can talk with your other 3 teams and take the chase away from any active gens or other survivors, then when they finally break chase they are out in the middle of no where with no prospects.
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Allow survivors to speed up their bleed out if they want. Similar to recovery, you hold the button and you bleed faster. Your aura changes, so that the remaining survivor can tell you are doing this.
I do think removing the hatch would reduce slugging a lot. I'm not sure if it would help the game though... survivors don't like to be slugged but they REALLY like getting their hatch escapes. I think, unless you have a key, you should have to physically open the hatch and it should operate just like an exit gate. The killer can tell if the survivor is working on it, and chose to camp it, or go look at gates. Effectively giving the last survivor THREE points of exit, but all of them need some time.
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My money is 100% on Pinhead. There is a new hell raiser movie coming out this year, and the timing feels right. Chains make sense too.
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Killers are complaining about hook suicides? Weird. Just another one down, suicide all you want.
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@LordGlint said:
I think its funny when stuff like this happens.
Im over here hopping out of a lobby because my 10 month old son woke up and wants a bottle NOW.
Lobby of survivors: OMG HE THOUGHT WE WERE SWFS!!! LOL
Doesn't the lobby disappear when the killer does? So, unless they were actually weren't SWF, they wouldn't be able to communicate that to each other...
Killer Rank 11 here, who constantly faces red ranks on PS4... I pretty much dodge any lobby with a Claudette. Sorry, not sorry. Claudette is a red flag for me, and I just don't want to deal with it. Queue times are instant on PS4 for killer, so I get to pick the load out I want to play against.
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@MrGummeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1090367#Comment_1090367
Are sure about that I Once Played Wraith and SWF and 3 survivors had Flash lights . They literally had blind all game. I couldn't even turn invisible. Killers get games where they can put in position to do nothing.
Survivors put you in that position EVERY FRIGGIN' game. You've won, just leave. But no.... make me chase you out the gate, or go find the hatch for a few more BP, or lets do another extra chase so you can pallet drop me again. Lets 99 the gate, for a bit more fun. Its often incredibly clear when the game is over, but survivors feel the need to sit around.
This is why killers should have a surrender option by simply opening the gates. Opening before all the generators are done should deactivate any EG perks like Hex and blood warden and stuff, and just force survivors to get out. @Echorion If they want to put a "3 gens must be done" limit on it or something, fine. I think they can come up with a solution.
Slugging all 4 to bleed out is crap. I see no reason why an algorithm can't be made that determines state of the game and just speeds that up. Even if it doesn't, its 4 minutes, and this doesn't happen that often. I've maybe seen it 2 times, and if all 4 survivors in a game report the killer, odds are something will get flagged on them.
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Killers should have the option to open the exit games and start EGC at any point. Problem solved
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A.) Camping is a legit strategy in a lot of situations. I almost always hard camp my first survivor if I'm using a low-mobility killer on a big map - especially if I lucked out and caught them early on - especially if I don't have BBQ (which should be base kit for all killers just for this reason)
B.) Camping wouldn't be an issue if survivor queue times were shorter. You'd just die and move on, but survivor queue times are TERRIBLE so having a crap game sucks. Make killer more enjoyable and survivor queue times would go down.
C.) Once ranks don't matter at all because they're not shown and we don't know how they factor in to match making, if at all, why do I care about emblems and pipping outside of a few rift challenges? @Feyd @NMCKE With out any reason to rank up, you'll see a lot more meme-killers and campers.
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I'm 100% more toxic lately as killer, but not because of a lack of DC penalties, because I'm tired of facing red-rank-swf-squads as a level 12 killer. Its not fun, and playing meme builds (Which people think as toxic) and camping and slugging is fun.
Fix killers, fix match making, and you'll see less bull.
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I've been having tons of fun camping survivors lately.
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100% agree. Hatch just incentivizes making the game longer since one surv feels the need to find the hatch at the end instead of just getting the heck out.
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What is it?
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@fleshbox they aren't going to fix, they're going to hide it. You'll not be able to see the ranks, and just always assume every time you won, you may not have deserved it, or every time you lost, its because they didn't deserve it.
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Happy that we all got some good exercise, especially that Jeff guy. Thats right, Jeff! Lose the pot belly!
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I think their user base is simply too small, and no one wants to play killer these days. They're not going to let people queue forever, so eventually their wait time hits a threshold in the algorithm, and they get dropped in with more and more rank disparity.
Unfortunately, the only fix for this is to get more players, and make both sides fun to play. But, I fear they're on a bit of a vicious spiral right now as people get frustrated and stop playing killer or quit, thus just making the issue worse.
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I think an easy fix for Mori would be this:
If you have been hooked, but still on 1st phase, you must be carried back to the hooked and then mori'd on the hook (Yeah new violence animation!) This way survivors get a second chance for a save, but the killer still gets their quick killer.
If you have been hooked, and on 2nd phase, you can be mori'd where you fell.
However, I would only accept this if keys took time to open the hatch, and the killer had a notification or sound or something when it started to be used.
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@ignoredprayers said:
I am a green rank killer. Git gud, I know. Every match I am against red/purple survivors these days, nothing else. I started playing bubba with noed and bloodwarden and just hard camp now after the first down. It's actually a lot more fun than getting ######### on by people several skill tiers above me, and I am getting a 2k or more on average. I suggest everyone facing the same frustrating and broken matchmaking do the same.
Why not just stop playing? Player counts dropping and increased queue times will effect BHVR more than this...
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Considering queue times for survivor are 20 minutes on weeknights on PS4, I'm surprised anyone is upset by this. Whats 5 more minutes?
IMO these shouldn't even apply to killers.
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Seriously, screw that game. Thats how all my matches on PS4 have been. Rank 12 killer, vs a bunch of rank 1s (often swf squads). Hiding this information won't make it any better.
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Are you saying, if someone else DCs, you should be able to do so w/o penalty?
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@ZoneDymo said:
I would imagine leatherface pushing down on a survivors shoulder making the hook rip through them, or simply chainsawing their bottom half off.
But hey, that would be too gory of this pg13 horror game.
You don't need to imagine - thats what happens in the moving :)
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Red rank survivors are insufferable. I never had to go against them until PS4 match making went to all hell (I'm rank 12 killer...) but now they're all I get.
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Rank 12 vs 4 rank 2 just now ... There must just be no killer players on PS4 and I can understand why. This isn't fun. I'm not a masochist, I have other games to play.