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@AbsoluteMeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975884#Comment_3975884
Could always just check to see if someone was around and down them. That worked.
How fast are your chase times exactly? This is assuming you check every corner, bush, whatever around you every single time you down a person against an item you don't even know is in play until you've seen it in trial. Then having to make a 15 (give or take) second commitment after EVERY chase to not give a guaranteed save handout if you are paranoid? That's textbook overpowered and problematic.
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@AbsoluteMeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975849#Comment_3975849
On one hand I get why they did it since most killers don't like playing around them and learning counterplay, on the other hand they should have buffed them if they were going to make them essentially worthless.
The problem is there literally was no counterplay. There were counter*picks* yes, but there was nothing other than hoping nobody is within range. Even if you knew someone was around background player made them able to save from a pretty wild distance.
The absolute best case scenario is you somehow down the person with the flashbang before the first person is picked up or picks themself up. Being able to get a flashbang save against a killer who's face is literally clipped inside a wall wasn't fair. -
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973822#Comment_3973822
Yes, I do think he is overtuned. A high-mobility kit cannot be as bloated as his, because mobility-based powers are already strong by themselves.
Wesker gets mobility, passive slowdown, tracking, and path denial, all in one kit. It is too much. It would be fine if he didn't have a dash, but since he does, his power cannot have so much more stuff in it.
Wesker is not "high mobility" in any capacity.
Wesker can dash after charging his bound for 1.5 seconds, causing him to move at 3.68m/s.
He can then dash for 0.5 seconds on his first dash, and 1 full second on his second dash at 14m/s.
Being generous and assuming you instantly transition between bounds in a straight line, that is exactly 21m cleared in 1.5 seconds.
Wesker also needs to wind down from his power after finishing a dash, causing him to move at 2.3m/s for 3 seconds.
The easiest way to calculate this is to simply add up the total distance if you never stopped holding W from beginning of his windup to the end of his wind-down, then compare it to how long a 115% killer takes to simply walk that distance.
1.5s at 3.68m/s is 5.52m
1.5s at 14m/s is 21m
3s at 2.3m/s is 6.9m
Now we add it up to a total of 33.42. This means that Wesker can travel 33.42m in 6 seconds.
The base killer walkspeed is 4.6m/s. Since we have the total time it takes Wesker to travel we simply multiply our base killer speed in seconds.
4.6m/s * 6 = 27.6m
The difference between Wesker's Distance in a straight line from a bound plus a chain bound and a normal 115% killer is 5.82m
How much time does this save? 5.82m / 4.6 = approximately 1.26.
Therefor 1 virulent bound and a chain bound save 1.26 seconds of walking at the default killer speed of 4.6m/s a second. Keep in mind this is under the most ideal circumstance of having a straight shot to wherever he's going with both bounds and assuming that he instantly initiates both bounds. Any hesitation adds additional loss to distance, along with accidentally colliding with one of these 13 million piles of garbage, rocks, bushes, or invisible walls. This also isn't considering his lengthy cooldown of 11 seconds for both of his tokens to recharge, meaning he can't use it more than once when travelling from point A to point B unless several survivors are infected (granting 0.5 seconds faster recharge per token per infected).
In conclusion, Wesker is not a mobility killer as he is not even remotely comparable to actual mobility killers such as Blight, Billy, Kaneki, Dredge, etc. Feel free to correct me if you think there is something wrong is misleading in my calculations. -
@GeneralV said:
Ghostface, Wesker and Ghoul.
For a very long time, Ghostface was the killer I disliked most in DBD. And that is because of how terrible his reveal mechanic is. Ghostface's main counterplay is the reveal mechanic. That is how it is supposed to work. You either remain stealthy, approach unseen and mark a survivor, or they see you and reveal you. That is fair in theory, but in reality the reveal mechanic simply doesn't work most of the time, regardless of angle or time spent looking at him.
Wesker I dislike because of how bloated his kit is for a dash killer. A killer whose primary power is movement based cannot have so many things in their kit. Wesker gets dash, injury on windows, passive slowdown with the infection, killer instinct when you remove the infection, and he can throw you on a random direction which no other killer can do. It is too much, way too much. That doesn't make him impossible to beat, of course, but it makes him utterly miserable to go against, in my opinion.
Ghoul needs no explanation, to be honest. Extremely oppressive power with very little room for counterplay, if any.
Do you actually think Wesker is overtuned? He's like high B-tier as he has only slight mobility and a VERY inconsistent anti-loop as many tiles just turn you into an m1. He also just has one of the most punishing powers to miss with in the entire game, only other I can think of is Twins.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971964#Comment_3971964
Can you give me examples of survivor nerfs that you feel are entirely unjustified or unfair?
Well, my friend, a few immediately come to mind:
Adrenaline nerf, DS losing its 5 second stun, most map reworks (Coldwind realm in particular), introduction of new tiles to the game, Iron Will nerf, Self-Care nerf, Balanced Landing nerf, Distortion nerf, and the gradual deterioration of the stealthy playstyle, although that also affects stealthy killers, so I am not sure if it counts.
There could be more though.
Adrenaline and DS were both objectively overpowered and are still both extremely strong (DS debatably being S-tier). Adrenaline was particularly unhealthy as it just incentivized reckless injured genrushing, it wasn't in a third of all builds for just no reason.
Most maps have been reworked to not be ridiculously safe for survivor, even Coldwind has good survivor maps like Fractured where there's a lot of pre-droppable safe pallets.
Iron Will is almost entirely the same now, with it simply being limited by exhaustion, which with how powerful the effect is (especially in chase for holding W away from a tile) is warranted. I will agree the original nerf was stupid and killed the perk, but it is now in a more healthy spot.
Self care at 50% allowed you to heal at a 100% efficiency rate, as instead of having 2 teammates occupied in one healing action for 16 seconds, you occupy only yourself/1 person for 32 seconds assuming no perks involved. If Self-care was 50% with the currently available healing perks it would devastate the meta, as that's only like 16% short of medkit healing speeds.
Balanced Landing I don't recall being nerfed, outside of it not reducing your fall stagger permanently, which is entirely justified and needed to happen as it simply opens up way too many possibilities in infinites. If the map design was more sound and accounted for this maybe it would be fine, but at the same time having every map accommodating for 1 perk is also impractical.
Distortion's nerf single handedly made aura perks 10x more common as their viability skyrocketed. I agree the perk is useless now, but I was seeing 2 distortions every game on average, and even a quad aura reading build couldn't break through the tokens regenning constantly. It should be adjusted from where it is to a better spot in between.
Stealth is dying as a playstyle because is impacts gen efficiency, most survivors don't care to stealth anymore because they aren't afraid of the killer/afraid of chase. Why hide when generally my teammates will do gens if I'm found and chased? -
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970472#Comment_3970472
Over the years? Plenty.
All of which have been entirely justified. Deadhard was problematic, 5 second DS was problematic, Made for This was insanely problematic. A lot of maps were ridiculous. Medkits are still the strongest item after being nerfed heavily, it was justified entirely (even if killing the identity of the different medkits kinda sucks).
Can you give me examples of survivor nerfs that you feel are entirely unjustified or unfair? -
@Poochkips said:
It's hypberolated by killers who refuse to take anything but information and gen slowdown down perks instead of the actual tools they are given to help circumvent the healing. They're complaining because survivors got a buff to a nearly unused perk that brought it up to "used". And as we see, almost anytime a survivor gets something positive, killers behave like they've just been kneedcapped. Then again, as killers they should never be happy for survivor. So basically, they're just roleplaying.
I have personally been experiencing games so goofy that as Blight (base 40m terror radius) survivors will manage to all consistently stay healthy all game whilst running Coulrophobia and Distressing (52m of half healing speed), as a killer that has a very easy to time applying pressure in multiple places. I can promise you the healing meta is very real and it really does feel like 2021 or 2022 all over again with CoH.
If one of the best pairings for interrupting healing/slowing it down is ineffective, what "tools" are you referring to that killers have to deal with it? Especially if it isn't an S-tier, which most players are not playing.
Also can you grow up and stop the tribalism? It's really childish to just go around and create/pretend there is conflict when there isn't. Someone asks a simple question and you instinctively start droning on about "KiLlEr MaIn ThIs" and " kiLlEr MaIn ThAt" when literally nobody asked for it. Engage in meaningful, constructive and objective discussion every once in a while. -
@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954700#Comment_3954700
This kind of response makes me laugh because whenever camping and tunnelling being a game ruining playstyle for people that will have driven thousands away from the game over the last 9 years is brought up - the response is very often "It isn't my responsibility for you to have fun" but now as a survivor, we all have to make sure that the killer has fun, no matter what the circumstances are.
Even if the killer has a ping of 150+ We have to stay in that game, knowing how it will end as killers are rewarded for lagging
Even if the killer is tunnelling someone out at 5 gens we have to sit there and watch it play out and let them do the same to each person because as long as the killer is having fun, then the game can continue.
Even if the killer decides to slug 3 players and then just follow the 4th player around - we all have to lie there on the floor because the killer is enjoying their game
It is a game played in leisure time, why are people being forced to stay in a game that is unfun and unwinnable so that the killer can have fun at the cost of everyone else's????
Does the killer have a go next punishment? If a killer gives up and stands in a corner waiting for the gens to get done are they punished for that? Should we start punishing killers who open the exit gates? They are trying to end the game quicker, maybe they should be timed out for 30mins if they do that
Or do we only punish survivors for not wanting to play a game that can't be won?
You also have to consider how people not wanting to play against certain killers is why things got changed like:
- Skull merchant, mass disconnects and no interest in playing against her original form meant they had to implement changes
2. The Ghoul - Mass complaints, disconnects and kill selves on hook - Made changes
Now if they release a killer who is tedious af to play against, we just have to keep playing and no changes will happen as the killer is getting to have fun and play a full game whilst the survivors are miserable - we don't care about those 4 players though, only killers need to be having fun - proven further by the nonsense remote hooking and pallet breaking that remained in the event.
Imagine if they brought in remote gen work or remote unhooking, killers would be apoplectic but survivors just have to get on with it because the killer is having fun and that is ALL that matters in DBD 2025
This was never about the killer lmao, this was about your teammates and staying in the game for them.
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Crack
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954903#Comment_3954903
last year was quite the dog and pony show; every Anniversary brings out the Franklins Force in full fashion, but last years Anniversary debut of Weave Attunement made so many people crash out and go unhinged.
I still find it crazy how people were losing their mind over the most mediocre perk of all time.
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@Pulsar said:
Definitely doesn't feel great to be forced into playing out a lost match to the bitter end. One guy dead at 5 gens? I feel like it isn't totally unreasonable to want to go next.
We should have a vote to surrender feature for sure
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@Madmillennial said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954487#Comment_3954487
So.... I should be FORCED to wait the entire time in crap matches? I should be FORCED to wait an entire bleed out timer if everyone isn't down?
I should be told I have to play if I don't want to for whatever reason thats my businessand none of anyone else's dispite me paying to play like everyone else when for years.... we had that option and suddenly its taken from us... and I have no right to be upset about that change after having it since launch?
Here's the thing... when I play a game at the end of the day my own fun matters most. Not a stranger. If you can be gross and play how you want.. (slugging) (camping) (tunneling) th3n why can't I leave when I want? Is that not okay too?
We draw the line there? Despite all the problems everyone has... thats where we say no?
Sorry person who paid for the game. You WILL STAY IN THIS MATCH or else get a penalty even if its on your stomach… or on a hook.... the entire time...
You paid for a MULTIPLAYER game, you aren't the only person playing. Overall the feature is far more beneficial than harmful and has already become evident with NightLight.gg statistics showing a drop of 10-15% in killrates. People were killing themself on hook that often. So pull your big girl panties up and wait a horrifying 2 minutes and 20 seconds at most as a one off occurrence so everyone can benefit from this overall positive change.
PS, if you press ALT + TAB you can even watch a YouTube video in the background. -
You had to wait a truly unbearable 140 seconds because of a specific circumstance that doesn't normally occur so that most matches can go much more smoothly without people giving up on hook instantly.
This community man. -
All that matters is the icon. If the killer abandons then yes it will detect the "Escape" icon. Otherwise if you kill them it creates the sacrifice skull. You can also manually change it if you want to on the app.
responding to Jacknalls paw, quote thingy just didn't work ig? -
@Aven_Fallen said:
nightlight-stats have always been lower than the official Killrates. It was only a matter of time if someone posted them here.
I wait for official Killrates.
NightLight stats are posted by generally better players, meaning they verse stronger players. Additionally they are mainly posted by killer players as they don't have to wait the entire game to get the screenshot for NightLight.
It's fairly common knowledge as well that at a lower level the game favours killer more heavily as survivor is a lot more overwhelming, but as you get better on both sides it rapidly flips and survivor becomes a lot stronger. Nightlight stats have also been damn near spot on in the past despite this as well. -
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449069/this-game-is-unfair-for-m1-killers
Technically Spirit is an M1 killer, and she does just fine.
Here's a pro tip: If you care about winning, play strong killers. I get it, M1 killers are generally easier to play. Clown's bottles are much easier to get the hang of than Blight flicks or Nurse jumps. Spirit is so technical that she needed a 350 page guide to explain. But you don't get to pick C or D tier killers, get rekt by good survivors who know how to loop, then complain that the game is unfair. Not all killers are created equal.
Doesn't mean we should just leave them in the dust. It's been a problem for years, but for some reason BHVR is way too afraid of buffing weaker killers. Look at the Freddy rework PTB; He was still B TIER and they decided to massively nerf him out of the PTB, making him just a much worse version of Clown (that needs to put them to sleep first) with a really meh teleport that you can't cancel anymore. They made aspects of his kit actually weaker than before whilst making him have some slight anti-loop. They're genuinely terrified of buffing weaker killers that they need to "compensation nerf them" despite being in the gutter of D-tier hell.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942455#Comment_3942455
Nobody wants to play half the Killer roster because of SWF, not because the Killers are generally weak, but because SWF breaks the game. That's why we have overtuned Killers that deal with SWF and completely stomp SoloQ and why SoloQ is riddled with people who want to ditch mid match.
If people knew they were going up against a complete SoloQ lobby they'd pick any Killer that their heart desired, but instead we have most of the playerbase always preparing for the worst.
I often feel like Solo Queue is a scapegoat for poor matchmaking and bad players. It doesn't matter if you're in a SWF or solo queue, if you go down 5 seconds into chase against a perkless trapper who hasn't placed any traps yet, the match was lost from the start.
Solo queue can absolutely stomp a large chunk of the roster just by each player playing relatively well and playing their part. But instead we have the single worst players in gaming history combined into a "team" fighting against each other for 5th place -
@francesinhalover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942455#Comment_3942455
Otz has ghoul on s tier.
You also cant Crouch to avoid hits
Is Otz like the be all end all of all DBD balance statements? This is the same guy who said STBFL was more problematic than MFT during its prime.
edit: hold on what does crouching have to do with anything? -
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942796#Comment_3942796
The issue is how exactly do you create more incentive to use other items when anytime something plans on getting changed to create a more diverse pool of item options people end up complaining.
- Developers wanted to rework Keys and Maps to make them so they have passive Aura Reveals so players are more likely to use them, was also going to actively supplement Windows of Opportunity. People complained about it since "Windows of Opportunity is the most used Survivor perk so therefore it has to be a strong change if the perk is meta".
- Developers wanted to change Toolboxes to make Sabotaging stronger to give more incentive to use Toolboxes and to encourage alternative playstyles. People complained that Sabotaging was too strong now and was basically a free save with no downside whatsoever.
- Developers changed Flashlight timing to not be reliant upon having low latency. People complained that it made Flashlights too strong by making the timing way easier to pull off for a majority of the playerbase. Keep in mind Flashlights are still among the weakest item options available but people STILL complained that the change was overpowered and too strong.
If the developers make other items more appealing, it does not matter, since people would complain that it is buffing Survivors "too much". Funniest part as well, if Medkits got nerfed again after all the healing perk buffs, Survivors will just move back to using Toolboxes again, and people will go back to complaining about Toolboxes being too strong.
Keep in mind none of this is to "Us VS Them", moreso that past a certain point you really cannot win with this community because there will always be somebody complaining about something pointless.
I mean, they can make things more appealing by not cranking things up to 11. The Sabo changes are by far the most atrocious and unhealthy thing you listed, of which still just has no counterplay other than drop them and don't get a hook.
Besides, this isn't about why medkits are the best item, this is about why buffing them indirectly is a terrible idea via an already very strong perk before. -
The problem is medkits are still by far the strongest item in the game, and this purely serves as a buff for them. The idea behind the downside is to incentivize other item use, and with the key and map buffs coming that would be an interesting idea. Having two 12 second self heals for one perk is kinda crazy (and the perk continues to be useful outside of that)
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My take is that people severely over exaggerate his strength. Calling him "Blight 2.0" is hilarious when Blight is still dramatically stronger than him in every way. He's a strong killer, but nowhere near the strongest currently and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Nobody wants to play more than half the killer roster because they're weak.
The only thing he needs in a fix to the "kidnap tech" bs where you literally freeze a survivor in place for a full second whilst fast vaulting and downing them for free. Otherwise he's in a great place. Hell you can even make his power work against him by giving him the choice in losing enrage or essentially giving you a bonus healthstate by deep wounding you when already injured. -
@jmwjmw27 said:
Since the patchnote that stated "Fixed an issue that caused multiple killer powers to miss if a survivor crouched" I have found that Blight and Demogorgon mostly no longer have huge issues with survivors crouching during power use, even on elevation differences.
Crouch tech on same elevation still works to dodge demogorgon shreds that would have hit you from the side.
I don't play Demo as much so thanks for the insight, I guess sometimes I'm just getting lucky or something? people try and it works much less against him compared to before.
@krazy_ivan said:
Some will dismiss these posts saying "it's already been fixed there's nothing wrong" so I'm glad there are people willing to post these issues because they are definitely still occurring. I can vouch personally crouch tech works against blight as well and have witnessed others using crouch tech successfully against demo and Billy recently.
Blight was 100% improved compared to before, it works FAR less often than it used to. I main Blight and speak from experience. Elevated surfaces now seem to let you hit them from the side if you're angled towards their side going down and you don't randomly slip off when they crouch on level terrain (most of the time).
@CLHL said:
It has been "fixed" in the same way that the flashbangs were "fixed" many times until they were "actually fixed"… I you know what I mean.
From day one it was proven that the "Crouch Tech” is still there, but now its executed in a different way.
"Fixed Flashbang audio not playing correctly"
"Fixed Flashbang audio not playing correctly"
"Fixed Flashbang audio not playing correctly"
I swear I was going insane during that short while of Flashbang usage absolutely going through the roof because people would just drop them around corners (something mysteriously no one ever did before it became widespread after the UE5 update that messed with audio in general really bad).
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@Hex_Ignored said:
First person would be a huge nerf to survivors and third person a huge buff for killers. Creating such a lopsided mode is a recipe for failure. It would probably do even worse than lights out.
Mechanically I feel like killers are going to have a really hard time using a lot of powers. I also don't see how killer massively benefits that heavily from having third person, other than maybe seeing over top of certain walls if they're too short I guess, but otherwise you don't need to checkspot as a killer or be looking around behind corners to see a… survivor chasing you? Now I'm having flashbacks to the pack of wild Adas that hunted me down as clown, horrifying #########.
I still think it's a fun concept that should at least be tried once. I don't see any reason to call something a failure when it's not even been tested yet. It could feature select maps with changes to accommodate for having a reduced POV as survivor and such as well, we don't know much for sure. -
@Gyges said:
No rework, if they wanna touch him again just nerf the scamper, shorten grab range and revert the sling range nerf.
I feel like this would just annihilate him entirely if all done at once
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@GeneralV said:
What is wrong with Lights Out, my friend? I loved the first one!
But yes, I would like a POV swamp modifier, I think it would be fun.
It was a disaster as far as my opinion goes. Being almost completely blind as both sides without any perks, hud (making some killers really not fun to play), and just kinda felt like walking simulator until you ran into someone/killer runs into you, you get hit and speedburst away. They typically can't find you again since it's pretty hard to follow pools of blood without scratchies when you can't see even 2 pools at the same time (signifying what direction they last went).
This led to Legion instantly being pretty popular, along with plague since you could just turn corners and insta down most of the time. What sucked most though was when it came back for round 2, where their solution was just to make it extremely unfair to killer for some reason (base 5% progress on all gens from the first time, survivors have a base 20% increase repair speed iirc, and get 60 seconds endurance off the hook that works during end game).
Also just running around in the dark was really eye straining and I disliked feeling like all I can see is the floor. -
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933379#Comment_3933379
Hmm, where do you get 6 seconds from?
As far as I know, Botany gives you normal self-healing speed (100%) instead of 66%. So, instead of spending 24 seconds to heal yourself, you slash it down to 16 seconds, and since there are no other perks that specifically buff self-healing with a medkit, I'd say it is fair to change Botany into what is proposed on the PTB.
Removing that efficiency debuff that could only be countered with Streetwise is a nice QoL for a very under-used perk.You have options to increase medkit healing speed already, such as the newly buffed desperate measures, resilience, suture (these are already insanely overpowered btw, giving approx 2.5 heals at double the speed if you get just 2 skillchecks and hit them with medical suture + gel dressings) and speed addons. Medkits are at their core an extremely potent item and the PTB that botany had no downside showed how busted it made medkits, right after they were nerfed. Two 16 second self heals is kinda crazy for just 1 perk slot and an item you were already running 90% of the time anyway.
Overall, medkit self heal speed shouldn't be affected by very many things, and if it is affected it should have some sort of trade off.
Botany also is already a strong perk and a reliable personal choice for healing, the downside it has is the only thing stopping it from pretty much instantly becoming the best heal perk in the game (by a landslide). -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921134#Comment_3921134
You dont see the difference between several minutes of taking the game hostage.
Versus
Someone who is emotionally charged, not pushing people out the exit gate.
Indeed, you do you.Can we not act like it's not INCREDIBLY easy for a survivor to hide during the entire EGC, and only leave at the last second, which if healthy is completely safe to do and oftentimes is exactly what happens, been there done that.
I also don't really see the difference, why is one side allowed to instantly leave the game the moment they lost, but the other side has to wait 10 minutes if they want to give up? If the killer wants to forfeit the match that they feel is over, I don't see any harm is such. The only thing I would say it should require is an exit gate to be open as to avoid said tome challenges from being interfered with, or just a 1 minute timer after the last gen pops before killer can give up.
Lastly, not everyone feels the same about BM as you do, but to most of us it really does feel like ######### and we'd like to just move on with good sportsmanship, something that is hard to come by in this community. -
Honestly, nothing you do to second wind will make it less so in the shadow of Resurgence. It activates for free and effectively accomplishes the exact same thing. I used to love Second Wind and was kind of upset that they buffed Resurgence, completely forgetting about Second Wind's existence.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906070#Comment_3906070
I think Deathslinger's hitscan, there's just a slight delay after firing.
It is most definitely not hitscan, the wiki says it moves at the same speed as a fully charged huntress hatchet. You can also… you know visually see it moving, especially if you move at the same time, giving the illusion the harpoon is moving sideways.
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Who is going around downvoting the logical comments? Are there really people against buffing solo queue?
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The only reason I can think of as to why SWF would be against in game comms to because they know a bunch of killers would require buffs to function even in solo queue, particularly stealth killers and those that REALLY struggle against communicated survivors, such as Trapper (every SWF's favourite bully toy), Hag, Pinhead, etc. Otherwise I don't see why anyone is against built in comms. Even most killer players want it to bridge the gap between SWF and solo q
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I need Dying Light's Night Hunter as a Kaneki skin, I think it would be perfect with the tendril locomotion already being right there.
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@rampagestreet25 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901982#Comment_3901982
chucky is literally below mid B-tier after the nerfs so if your losing to him then your low mmr
He's D-tier, super slow dash, very lengthy recharge time for a lackluster effect with very poor stealth, Legion will be stronger than him after their buffs.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885245#Comment_3885245
you literally can only play him one way, there is no skill experession you just bounce off what terrain lets you then lunge, its not like you can do anything unique anymore like hug tech etc LOL
As a Blight main LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER
He has a lot going on and I'm sick of people acting like there isn't, there's different styles to bump logic, there's back bump techs (using the backwards momentum from bumping to easily fit into a doorway or narrow area and save an extra rush, very useful for shack), he has addons that drastically change how you play him, and for an m2 killer he has a lot of valid perk options that most m2s wouldn't bother with. Go find 2 top Blight players and see how differently they play, it'll be black and white, even if they're around the same skill level -
How hard is it for people to take a Legion hit and then drop the pallet for the guaranteed stun? you can literally disable his power with a random useless pallet and he can't do anything about it, but asking survivor players to adapt is apparently just not within the realm of possibility.
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It's even worse when Wesker is in the match, since you get sprays that can cure nemesis' infection 3 times if you aren't being chase or hit by Wesker's bound (highly probably given all the clutter and him likely being busy with others)
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If the survivors are even remotely competent it's borderline impossible to win as any pair of killers, with there being 2 absolutely game breaking effects in the game in the form of the medic's ability (no explanation needed) and the guide's passive after being hooked (the skillcheck bonus also stacks with others so a 3 man can all get a bonus 10% per great skillcheck, allowing for legitimate 20 second gen pops).
I will admit the bots kind of suck with sandbagging and not wanting to do gens in terror radius, but they are better in chase than most actual players as they cannot be mindgamed on simple filler tiles, which are most of the map on any map currently. They also deal with uncaging and if they are a medic they heal sufficiently enough. They however will freak out on weak windows and vault back and forth just like 1v4 and are easy downs because of that.
Also please stop acting like a 6 or 8 second mend time is the end of the world (they nerfed it just for 2v8 btw), Legion is still not anything crazy with him having an actual nerf to his kit to 4 hit downs and a basekit brown addon. A single pallet stun in frenzy stops all momentum he can get for 20 seconds. -
@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883019#Comment_3883019
I do see the other side. I played both sides tonight. Won all the killer games. Lost all the surv games. You on the other hand, probably have played only killer side, as usual…
If you can't win 2v8 as killer right now, then this is a massive skill issue. Consider sharing your gameplay one day, because I genuinely don't understand. Between lack of MMR, ridiculously OP killer synergies, 2 bots by default, and survivors never doing gens because they're all hiding for hatch, the mode is easier it's ever been.
I'm betting the killrate is something like 75%.
Brother I've been playing mostly survivor due to killer queue times and it's a cake walk, Like 6 games back to back the killers got no more than 2 kills, entirely solo queue. It's incredibly forgiving to bad survivors
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882773#Comment_3882773
Alright fine… I'm a Legion main. I'm sick of hearing the term "mending simulator." Mending MAYBE should've been sped up for 2v8 due to the high speed nature of the game mode. How ever my point was Legion should be a welcome addition due to the fact not many other killers that can pressure a lobby of 8 people quite like him, making 2v8 less of a survivor dominated game mode. It's not like he's getting insta downs or anything crazy so is it really that big of a deal that you have to take a break a few times per game NOT ONLY from gens but also chases, mind games, side missions etc; to mend for 12 seconds? There's better things to be upset about fr.
They actually did speed up the mending time… SIGNIFICANTLY, it's like 6 or 8 seconds tops
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@TieBreaker said:
Have fun with killers standing next to the hook, blocking the unlock prompt, or blocking the basement stairs by standing in the middle and going AFK. Not to mention getting insta-killed on first down from the old mori system.
If survivors can't handle the current game, there's no way they'll enjoy the original version.
Assuming the current BP economy would carry over, you'd be seeing quad stacked BNPs insta popping gens off the start so often I doubt it'd matter
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To the both of you discussing, I'd like to remind you Blight's way of playing a tile is taking control of the pallet before it is dropped, which allows you to bump logic rapid 50/50s until you get a hit because you went to the right side. Additionally, since speed now effects his lunge distance, you can play around a lot of things you otherwise needed a hug tech for via double speed or iri tag
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The reason slugging is so popular is because of how much time is wasted just picking a survivor up, walking over to a hook, placing them on a hook and then getting punished with a near instant heal off hook (Resurgence) or body blocking with DS, OTR, etc. When you experience that from hooking you can begin to feel like you're punished for doing your objective rather than rewarded. It's a really simple matter of "Do I want to shoot myself in the kneecap for no reason? No, no I don't, so I'm going to apply pressure elsewhere and get to feel rewarded for quick chases instead of punished"
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@fussy said:
Adrenaline Vail is my favourite example of BHVR's balance decision making:
1. It was obviously stupid addon
2. Then they destroyed it into nothing on PTB, like full nerf addon
3. Then added to it flat 5% speed on live, what is obviously nothing with such huge downside on background
4. Then removed turn penalty from it (keep in mind that some dev said that they want this addon exists to help player who love to bump into everything instead of more precise bump logic or something close to it) and for two weeks it was worthy addon. You have 2 tokens, which in most cases will use only for mobility and eat bigger cooldown for it and flat 5%. Fair enough for rare addon.
5. Community overreacted so much, whole forum was mad that Blight's addon isn't useless crap, so they added turn penalty back. Didn't even try something in between, just fully reverted it.
And it still exists in this state, because they know if, entity forbid, they will touch bad Blight's addon, they will read walls of text on how dare they do this. Or probably because a lot of killers have way worse addon roaster. Or probably because addons design is their weakness, they don't understand which addons will work and which won't.
UPD: Pretty much same history has Iri Tag addon, but with different inputs.Keep in mind the most severe nerf to it was indirect in the form of the collision changes and more importantly the cooldown. If they simply gave it some more speed and gave it an in-between recharge speed I think it'd actually be viable for bump logic with crow.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843551#Comment_3843551
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843633#Comment_3843633
What does this have to do with the Guide skill in particular though? They are still effected by the mechanic and the 8% speed boost is not a permanent effect, it is only available for 10 seconds every 90 seconds, which is virtually nothing. And the only other ability the guide has that gives a personal bonus to gen speed is after being hooked once and doing a gen near other survivors, which is more gimmicky than it is useful. That's it, that's all that guide does, read the description in game, a single use of Medic's ability saves more time than 8 uses of the Guide's ability when alone on a gen (0.8 seconds of time saved with 8% gen speed boost for 10 seconds vs 8 FULL seconds for half a single heal's worth of time).
TL;DR Medic is somehow better for rushing gens than the Guide skill; Because both Medic is overpowered and Guide is really badOKAY MINOR DISCOVERY
The skillcheck bonus for greats applies to yourself now, unlike last 2v8, meaning you get an instant 3.6 seconds (an extra 2.7) for every skillcheck, of which you'll get around every 10 seconds, which is actually pretty significant overall, especially since this aspect entirely ignores the slowdown effect from gens completed (Skill check bonuses are not based on repair speed to my knowledge)
I am going to play a bunch of guide to try to get an idea of how much time is being saved overall and make a better judgement on the potential, given I hit mostly great skillchecks -
@kommandantlocke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843255#Comment_3843255
for each hook, survivors get a 2.5% gen repair speed but for each gen completed they get a 5% gen repair slowdown
- [NEW] Generator repair speeds are reduced by 5% for each generator completed.
- [NEW] Generator repair speeds are increased by 2.5% for each cage state.
@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843255#Comment_3843255
@kommandantlocke pointed it out already but the math shakes out like this:
2.5% bonus for Survivor per Survivor, per hookstage. That means every Surv gets, baseline, a stacking and increasing permanent FREE 7.5% boost to genspeed all round, on every Survivor, PER Survivor. Everyone is essentially walking around and slowly being given free basekit Resilience just for Killers playing normally. On top of this, Guide offers an 8% bonus PER Survivor running it to gen repair, as well as gifting that through its class skill to ANYONE AND EVERYONE within a fairly large radius when activated for a second. This increases if Survivors work together on a gen, and if the Survivors manage to find a toolbox, which are not uncommon in 2v8, this can increase EVEN MORE because they all stack. And the most commonly found toolboxes are browns and yellows, which increase gen efficiency by 50%. You can have up to four people on some of these gens. And one more thing - the gens take way less charges to finish, I think it's something like 60-70 seconds. Because of this, multiple gens can be done in sub 1 or 2 minutes, because of sheer number of Survs. And this is every. Time. Killers. Hook.Meanwhile, Killers only get a 5% regression per completed gen. The Survs only need to do 8. This also stacks, but baseline regression is 5%. So every time a gen is done, add 5%. Now that means when one gen is left you can remove up to 40% of a gen, but remember - there are more Survs than Killers and they can easily undo that between toolboxes, Guide, the catchup mechanic, and sheer numbers. So really, that up to 40% means nothing, because if even one person has a toolbox, enough people have Guide, and enough hooks happen, the Survs can still power through. The Killers will not and cannot win by spreading hooks, they basically have to play sweaty and hardcore, which is why you see so much hyper-aggro Killer play in 2v8. Unlike 1v4, there is no way to control the runaway genspeed besides kicking, which wastes time in this mode. Unlke 1v4, the gens legitimately do, 100%, go too fast to handle for many Killers of average skill.
In other words? BHVR screwed up the catchup mechanic by basing it on hooks not Kills, and they overtuned Guide WAY too much. They overestimated the true strength of Killers in 2v8, and this is the result - extremely breezy matches for Survivors if they have some teamwork and even remotely try, and extremely tense, sweaty, difficult matches for Killer where you wait 20+ minutes for a game that is over in 8 minutes.
What does this have to do with the Guide skill in particular though? They are still effected by the mechanic and the 8% speed boost is not a permanent effect, it is only available for 10 seconds every 90 seconds, which is virtually nothing. And the only other ability the guide has that gives a personal bonus to gen speed is after being hooked once and doing a gen near other survivors, which is more gimmicky than it is useful. That's it, that's all that guide does, read the description in game, a single use of Medic's ability saves more time than 8 uses of the Guide's ability when alone on a gen (0.8 seconds of time saved with 8% gen speed boost for 10 seconds vs 8 FULL seconds for half a single heal's worth of time).
TL;DR Medic is somehow better for rushing gens than the Guide skill; Because both Medic is overpowered and Guide is really bad -
@SidneysBane1996 said:
Guide is actually more overtuned than Escapist, Escapist is fine. Guide is broken with the catchup mechanic because it can NEGATE the catchup mechanic for Killer, plus stacks with it and toolboxes for Survivor.
Can someone elaborate more so on what they mean by "Negating the catchup mechanic", because I've heard this a few times and don't fully understand what is meant by this. Are you referring to the skillcheck bonus being a flat % and effectively negating it or is there something else I am not aware of? Because as far as I'm aware, Guide is by far the weakest skill for reasons I explained in the main post.
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@Ayodam said:
Before I comment further… Have you seen any overtuned features or issues at all with killer or is it just survivor? This entire post reads like a complaint about survivors and a regurgitation of complaints about survivors other people have made but I want to be sure before I decide to contribute. I did read the little disclaimer where you tried to tell us you aren’t just complaining about (survivor) but like that didn’t translate to the actual post.
I've played both sides a fair amount (for some reason killer queues were actually really generous to me the last couple days) and just found most of the cheesy or questionably designed things to be on the survivor end. The most egregious thing on the killer side is Nurse and her 7 addons. I never really found any of the killer "skills" to be very impactful or the reason for winning a game (I don't think it makes a difference in the outcome of a match because of how situational they often are).
A major reason for me almost exclusively discussing survivor balancing is because killer is in a situation where the chase time is basically plateaued. The speed you down survivors feels extremely inconsequential since you can pretty much always just crank out gens faster than the killers can kill, even if the max chase time was 15 seconds somehow. I mentioned this previously, it feels like there is minimal interactivity happening, as how fast you down almost doesn't matter since it's more of a generator repair/kicking simulator.
What I am effectively saying is no, I don't see much overtuned with killer. You know something is wrong when I can consistently escape (along with 5+ other survivors) almost every game in a row in solo queue. -
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833518#Comment_3833518
And their build falls flatter than a plate full of piss if they're found first and hooked. Then Deliverance never gets activated, highlighting the risk of it being a wasted perk slot most trials.
So there's a 25% chance their build won't be able to work, and a 0% if they're playing with even a duo
Sounds pretty good for me, least for a 2 perk build -
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827423#Comment_3827423
But that's the point of Deliverance. That's the whole reason they spent a perk slot and waited 10 games for the stars to allign, so that they could get one self unhook and free up their team mates for ~30 seconds.
What stars need to align? You need to unhook someone lmfao it aint that deep, the "Safe unhook" condition doesn't even exist anymore due to basekit BT so you can't even deny the unhook right in front of your face, which is usually what Deli users do and despite me KNOWING they have the perk now, I can't really do anything about it because I know their entire build revolves around it.
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@dwight444 said:
if decisive strike + deliverance is punishing you then stop tunneling off hook? Have you ever considered that?
your first sentence is like literally the point of anti-tunnel perks, so that you stop re-hooking the same damn person
@Yoshirama said:
Tunnelers always complain, don’t they?
You seem to miss my point, which is that I am punished regardless of if i tunnel or not. I am punished for having hooked them in the first place, because nobody has to go get the unhook and they're completely safe in self unhooking, leaving 3 survivors on gens whilst I just wasted my time for no reason. This is often an instant loss for most killers