Maximus7
Maximus7
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Her power is completely dictated by the survivors. Just don't cleanse and you cuck her power. Only cleanse when you're on your way out.
Vile Purge is actually so bad that it puts Plague in bottom tier. Corrupt Purge kinda makes up for it, but I'd much rather play Huntress if I was gonna go through all that trouble for a flamethrower version of her hatchets.
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More synergy with Unbreakable and no penalty for multiple survivors running it, but because it isn't the exact same second chance crutch I've been running for the past two years, it's now useless, killers have it so easy, wah.
DS is far from useless, git gud.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/372140#Comment_372140
Legion's power is pretty irrelevant endgame but the movement speed helps (also a good perk in a TOTH build with Legion), good luck downing people with Leatherface's chainsaw past the early ranks, and with Freddy + Remember Me, NOED can seal the game or at least force survivors to cleanse totems, buying you more time to get Remember Me stacks / kill Obsession in a worst case scenario.
With Freddy, the better combo is Rancor and Remember Me. That gives the best possible endgame while still giving you two perk slots to help cover other weaknesses he has (like his lack of good chase power).
I can down with LF's chainsaw perfectly fine. LF's big issue is his lack of map pressure leads to him being gen-rushed.
Remember Me is much better on Legion than NOED. Too easy to get stacks as Legion.
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@Raccoon said:
I use NOED at R1 on Legion / Freddy / Leatherface
All three of them don't benefit too much from NOED. Legion's power doesn't sync with it, Freddy has it cleansed all the time because everyone expects it, and LF already has an instadown
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@MegsAreEvil said:
Its a game changer for bad killer. Play bad (on purpose) and get rewarded. Thats totally bullshit. Like old DS. But Killers would never say so because they just want easy games.
DS in general can't be destroyed. NOED can easily be countered by just cleansing totems beforehand.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
NOED is a problem. Fact.
Why is it a problem?
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369599#Comment_369599
I’m gonna stop you at where you say I’m bad at DBD cause you clearly play this game in imaginary land where you have all the time to find and break totems while someone else is getting chased and hooked, the other person trying to save and one person trying their best to work through Ruin. Yeah right.
Working through Ruin isn't difficult. Neither is keeping a killer busy while others are doing gens, doing totems, and/or healing/unhooking survivors.
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How is Adrenaline "earned"? Doing 5 gens as survivor is not hard at all, and Adrenaline doesn't require anyone to repair at least one gen for it to proc. You could be sitting with your thumb up your ass and just get a free insta-heal because someone popped the last gen.
Have you ever seen 4 Adrenalines proc at the same time? When that happens, everyone heals a health state, destroying any pressure the killer previously had. That scenario is not only possible but a lot more common than you would expect. Especially in the hands of swfs.
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If gen speeds were addressed, I could see the idea of NOED being too powerful, but as it is right now it's the only thing that makes survivors think about doing something other than gens just long enough to actually be able to get something going as killer.
As for Adrenaline, I've stated before it's the best survivor perk period. Better than DS, better than exhaustion perks, better than Borrowed Time, Distortion, Self-Care, etc. With it, you have absolutely no reason to heal instead of doing gens (unless you have like 4 or 5 gens left) and when you finish all the gens, the killer's pressure is completely gone (especially if multiple people run it (which is very likely)). The haste effect is perfectly fine and balanced, but instant health state heal and waking up is not okay at all.
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This is actually a fantastic rework to DS. It has counterplay and still provides a good benefit to survivors running it. I'm fine with this change.
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Lol Legion's pathetically easy. The thing is his reward is nothing. You kill one, maybe two people max if they're good. If they aren't, of course you're gonna 4k (unless you also suck).Jake_Parks_prince said:So you guys really can't play Legion huh?
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So my opinions have changed quite a bit since I made this thread.
Legion is not the WORST killer, but he's damn close. Him, LF, Trapper, and Clown are the bottom 4. Freddy is mad underrated but difficult as hell, and most people expect to play him like a normal M1 killer whereas your best bet with him is putting as many people to sleep as possible to cause a big stall. But that's beside the point.
Legion is the killer most in need of a rework. He's not good and he certainly isn't fun, either as killer or survivor. As a killer, it's not fun to tunnel one person and moonwalk to get kills. As survivor, it's not fun to have few/no counterplay in chases while your teammates gen rush. And DW does nothing. -
Good God, this is an old thread. My view on Pig is higher now than before, but her traps being so RNG dependent is really damning to her ability as a killer. I now find her mid tier but no higher.
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In my 1450ish hours playing this game and having played Spirit since her release, she's nowhere near top tier. The top tier killers are Nurse and Billy, maybe Hag. I play literally every killer at rank 1 (not like rank matters that much tbh), I think I also know what I'm talking about. But okay, man, keep underrating Freddy. People like you are why BHVR wants to rework his power, which will absolutely nerf him.Blueberry said:@Maximus7 said:
Blueberry said:@DudeDelicious said:
Blueberry said:
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said: I can't believe there are still people out there that think Freddy is the worst killer in the game, holy #########. In conversations like this, people always seem to forget one crucial detail. PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP You are literally slowing the game down instantly by holding M2 on someone. Better yet, sleep them and DON'T hit them, and then they can't Self Care themselves awake. When you sleep someone, they can't see you for a few seconds. Pretend to leave, and then surprise them. He has mindgames.
He is the only short killer in the game with a reduced terror radius and normal speed, allowing for looping mindgames as well.
The "Worse Wraith" mentality is absolutely ridiculous and you're clearly playing him incorrectly. You don't just sleep and chase. Then, them being asleep has no benefit to you. Mess with them. Sleep them and let them struggle. Only chase when you're absolutely certain that is what benefits you most right now. "PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP" Not a single person is "forgetting" this, it's quite obvious. You are just completely ignoring the fact of how easy it is to wake up..which is VERY easy.
But his point still stands. Unless a sleeping survivor finds an awake survivor to do the wake up action, failed skill checks to wake up basically means the survivors are creating their own pressure. This basically HELPS Freddy.
You are missing the point. Between SC or getting to a gen to fail a skill check that is extremely quick and easy. That pressure being created is extremely small. Not to mention if he just runs into someone as well. The whole reason his pressure isn't great like it's supposed to be is because it is too easy to wake up. Of course it "helps" Freddy, it's not absolutely NOTHING, it's just nothing significant enough to matter, much less make up for his blaring weaknesses.
You're missing the point in how much of a stall this causes. To sacrifice 7 seconds for it is more than worth the stall it can cause. Most other killers don't have that stall and can't end chases quickly in a consistent/reliable manner. The ones who have the second attribute (Huntress, Billy, Hag, Nurse) are above him for sure (Myers is debatable at this point since he can be so cucked by map design). The ones who can't end chases quickly are the ones who need some kind of stall yet don't have it. Other than the other 5 I named, the only ones close to him are Doc and Spirit. Doc's stall is easier to get out of than Freddy's and doesn't do as much, whereas Spirit is so add-on dependent that her ability is inconsistent. Freddy isn't a godly killer, but he's better than the majority of the cast by default.
You are way over exaggerating how much stall that causes. Sure if they are being ######### an sitting there in a ball so you can just tap them all with it that's great, but that's not reality. It is also sacrificing way more than just 7 seconds. You are simply weighing the cost of clicking his skill, you're not weighing the weaknesses he takes on for that "strength". If you think Spirit is anywhere even remotely in the same universe as Freddy you are sorely lost. Spirit is top tier and is extremely consistent even without addons if you actually know how to play her. Freddy may be good for you at rank 20 but he is not that good at rank 1. I have played my P3 Freddy with all perks in the game at t3 unlocked at rank 1 on every reset since his release and I have over 2,700 hours in this game, I have quite the understanding of what Freddy can and can't do.
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You're missing the point in how much of a stall this causes. To sacrifice 7 seconds for it is more than worth the stall it can cause. Most other killers don't have that stall and can't end chases quickly in a consistent/reliable manner. The ones who have the second attribute (Huntress, Billy, Hag, Nurse) are above him for sure (Myers is debatable at this point since he can be so cucked by map design). The ones who can't end chases quickly are the ones who need some kind of stall yet don't have it. Other than the other 5 I named, the only ones close to him are Doc and Spirit. Doc's stall is easier to get out of than Freddy's and doesn't do as much, whereas Spirit is so add-on dependent that her ability is inconsistent. Freddy isn't a godly killer, but he's better than the majority of the cast by default.Blueberry said:@DudeDelicious said:
Blueberry said:@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said:
I can't believe there are still people out there that think Freddy is the worst killer in the game, holy #########.
In conversations like this, people always seem to forget one crucial detail.
PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP
You are literally slowing the game down instantly by holding M2 on someone. Better yet, sleep them and DON'T hit them, and then they can't Self Care themselves awake. When you sleep someone, they can't see you for a few seconds. Pretend to leave, and then surprise them. He has mindgames.
He is the only short killer in the game with a reduced terror radius and normal speed, allowing for looping mindgames as well.
The "Worse Wraith" mentality is absolutely ridiculous and you're clearly playing him incorrectly. You don't just sleep and chase. Then, them being asleep has no benefit to you. Mess with them. Sleep them and let them struggle. Only chase when you're absolutely certain that is what benefits you most right now.
"PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP"
Not a single person is "forgetting" this, it's quite obvious. You are just completely ignoring the fact of how easy it is to wake up..which is VERY easy.
But his point still stands. Unless a sleeping survivor finds an awake survivor to do the wake up action, failed skill checks to wake up basically means the survivors are creating their own pressure. This basically HELPS Freddy.
You are missing the point. Between SC or getting to a gen to fail a skill check that is extremely quick and easy. That pressure being created is extremely small. Not to mention if he just runs into someone as well. The whole reason his pressure isn't great like it's supposed to be is because it is too easy to wake up. Of course it "helps" Freddy, it's not absolutely NOTHING, it's just nothing significant enough to matter, much less make up for his blaring weaknesses.
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@Blueberry said:
@Maximus7 said:
@Blueberry said:
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said:
I can't believe there are still people out there that think Freddy is the worst killer in the game, holy #########.
In conversations like this, people always seem to forget one crucial detail.
PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP
You are literally slowing the game down instantly by holding M2 on someone. Better yet, sleep them and DON'T hit them, and then they can't Self Care themselves awake. When you sleep someone, they can't see you for a few seconds. Pretend to leave, and then surprise them. He has mindgames.He is the only short killer in the game with a reduced terror radius and normal speed, allowing for looping mindgames as well.
The "Worse Wraith" mentality is absolutely ridiculous and you're clearly playing him incorrectly. You don't just sleep and chase. Then, them being asleep has no benefit to you. Mess with them. Sleep them and let them struggle. Only chase when you're absolutely certain that is what benefits you most right now.
"PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP"
Not a single person is "forgetting" this, it's quite obvious. You are just completely ignoring the fact of how easy it is to wake up..which is VERY easy.
It's either dependent on rng to wake yourself up or requires another person. And as Freddy, you should be trying to keep everyone asleep as much as possible, then you go and chase others. His power is a stall power, people really need to learn how to use it. And if you think it's too easy to wake up, run Green Dress (the yellow add-on). It's one of his better ones.
@doggieman said:
@BOGUEINATOR said:
Freddy is not the worst Killer. He is actually under rated. Change my mind.All killers use powers to their advantage except Freddy. His power is literally starting chases. Any other killer you just have to walk up to survivors and it starts a chase.
Freddy's power causes a huge stall if used correctly. As stated above, you need to have multiple people asleep at all times. If all you're using his power for is to start a chase, then you're not playing Freddy correctly.
" It's either dependent on rng to wake yourself up or requires another person"
Yes and those rng chances are quite high and easy to get. I run the dresses regularly and it is still extremely easy to wake up."His power is a stall power, people really need to learn how to use it."
His power is for stalling and also for micromanaging...this is just kind of obvious. This isn't something people don't know or don't do.I have my Freddy at P3 with all perks in the game tier 3 and at rank 1 every reset since his release with massively more hours than most people. I say he's weak not because I don't do well with him, I regularly 3 and 4k. The difference is being able to recognize if your wins are because the killer is strong or if it's just because the average survivor is bad and in this case it's the latter.
Literally every killer other than Nurse will lose if the survivors are good enough. And we never said he's top tier. The average survivor sucks, so would that mean every killer sucks? Because they're only getting 3 or 4k's against them?
RNG chances are.....well.....rng. Modifiers might not seem noticeable, but there is still a modifier. And it's hard to really notice it because you only notice how much the Dress add-ons help you when they actually fail a skill check, meaning they got lucky with rng.
Not gonna lie, I have some games where they wake up in 10 seconds. I also have games where it takes them 2-3 minutes to wake up due to ######### rng or being put to sleep while healthy in the endgame. It can happen more often than you'd think
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@Blueberry said:
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said:
I can't believe there are still people out there that think Freddy is the worst killer in the game, holy #########.
In conversations like this, people always seem to forget one crucial detail.
PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP
You are literally slowing the game down instantly by holding M2 on someone. Better yet, sleep them and DON'T hit them, and then they can't Self Care themselves awake. When you sleep someone, they can't see you for a few seconds. Pretend to leave, and then surprise them. He has mindgames.He is the only short killer in the game with a reduced terror radius and normal speed, allowing for looping mindgames as well.
The "Worse Wraith" mentality is absolutely ridiculous and you're clearly playing him incorrectly. You don't just sleep and chase. Then, them being asleep has no benefit to you. Mess with them. Sleep them and let them struggle. Only chase when you're absolutely certain that is what benefits you most right now.
"PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP HAVE REDUCED ACTION SPEED AND UNLESS THERE IS AN ALLY IMMEDIATELY NEARBY THEY NEED TO HARM A GENERATOR OR THEMSELVES TO WAKE UP"
Not a single person is "forgetting" this, it's quite obvious. You are just completely ignoring the fact of how easy it is to wake up..which is VERY easy.
It's either dependent on rng to wake yourself up or requires another person. And as Freddy, you should be trying to keep everyone asleep as much as possible, then you go and chase others. His power is a stall power, people really need to learn how to use it. And if you think it's too easy to wake up, run Green Dress (the yellow add-on). It's one of his better ones.
@doggieman said:
@BOGUEINATOR said:
Freddy is not the worst Killer. He is actually under rated. Change my mind.All killers use powers to their advantage except Freddy. His power is literally starting chases. Any other killer you just have to walk up to survivors and it starts a chase.
Freddy's power causes a huge stall if used correctly. As stated above, you need to have multiple people asleep at all times. If all you're using his power for is to start a chase, then you're not playing Freddy correctly.
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The worst killers are Trapper, Clown, and Leatherface. LF would be much better if his chainsaw rev didn't slow him down so much. Why he slows down to 87.5 while Billy only slows down to 100 is completely beyond me.
Trapper just has no power without Iri Stone. Your traps will be found and disarmed constantly. And he is the one killers where the survivors can disable their power.
Clown's power just does nothing at this point. If gen times were addressed, he would actually be mid tier. But since gens fly by so fast, the best way to counter his power is to camp the pallet and/or move on to the next loop. It's a shame because Clown is really fun to me (especially since one of my mains is Huntress), but he's just so damn bad and his power does nothing at base.
Freddy is my other main and I can tell you he's vastly underrated and one of the better killers in the game. Some people say "well, you're gonna leave 3 others to do gens while waiting 7 seconds", but if you sondo put multiple people to sleep at once, you're not playing him correctly. He's a stall killer who can slug well, if that means abandoning someone temporarily to put more survivors to sleep, so be it. -
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628612661
Me and two others made a Freddy guide solely because we felt the same way. Freddy is extremely underrated and very misunderstood by the community. His stall and tracking are better than Doc's, and his slugging game is pretty damn good. -
Depends. It's almost mandatory on Wraith because even jungle gyms screw him over so hard. Otherwise, it's not bad but it's overrated as hellperotx said:Against competent survivors you get hits on vault places, not pallets. If you block a vault space, survivor will just move on to the next vault place or a pallet. Besides, the block is not even that long. Anyone above rank 10 can confirm that bamboozle is not just a waste of a perk, but actually something that works against you.
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Ok, time to break this down.
@DudeDelicious said:
Honestly pay these haters no mind. The clown is really REALLY good. You already need to be pretty damn good at chases and preempting where survivors will run to, but his Afterpiece tonic is GOLD. Just be strategic with your add-ons such as using solvent jug if there are a heap of survivors in the lobby you expect will be using exhaustion perks.So first, he's add-on dependent. Therefore not good. Second, survivors you expect will be using exhaustion perks? You mean literally every survivor?
@DudeDelicious said:
Yes you slow for a split second when throwing a bottle. Spilt second, no big deal.First off, it's a full second of slow. Second, this full second can lose you chases because you slow down to survivor walk speed. The survivors slow down by what, 10-15% for 2 seconds? You lose distance at base.
@DudeDelicious said:
Make sure you’re closing in on survivors before lobbing any bottles rather than lobbing bottles from a distance. Lobbing a bottle just as you’re closing in on them will almost certainly slow the survivor enough for a guaranteed hit every single time. It’s very satisfying.You mean when the killer would hit the survivor with his M1 already? So it's satisfying to use a useless power that doesn't help at all?
@DudeDelicious said:
There are fantastic perk combos that work awesome with the clown, too many for me to go into here, but Coulrophobia, Distressing, Sloppy Butcher, and Bloodhound means you will always ALWAYS find your injured survivors. I’ve gotten No One Escaped many many times with this perk combo.This build is way too overkill when nobody wants to heal. You have nothing to help you in the chase or help stall the gen rush. Sloppy Butcher might help you snowball, but that's a stretch.
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@Unnamed_Freak said:
Freddy + Remember Me + NOED + Class Photo = profit.Replace NOED with Rancor, then yes
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Also Clown is a really buggy mess compared to other killers. I recommend literally any other killer.
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@thekiller490490 said:
Maximus7 said:No, he's really bad. He used to not be too bad, but his power now slows himself down more than it slows survivors down at base. Just save your $7.
Can you please explain to me how that is possible?
For OP, go ahead with your opinion. He has Bamboozle, a huge anti chase. Pop goes the Weasle buys you 20 seconds per use on gens, Clourophobia is meh. He can end many loops but has no pressure.
So you used to slow down by 15% when you threw a bottle. This number got changed to something ridiculous, idk the exact value. But you now slow down to survivor walk speed. Also his intoxication effect with his gas lasts all of 2 seconds at base, which just isn't enough time to catch up to survivors. He used to be fine, but some patch shadow-nerfed/bugged his power into uselessness.
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Freddy is by far the most underrated killer. He just requires you to keep multiple people asleep at a time to set up his stall. With Class Photo, this becomes pretty easy to set up.
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No, he's really bad. He used to not be too bad, but his power now slows himself down more than it slows survivors down at base. Just save your $7.
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Thank you for the compliments! Definitely one of my better killer games. But you are correct, even with M&A, healing that close to someone who got downed is a really bad idea, and part of why this game ends in less than 2 minutes.Nickenzie said:
@powerbats @DwightsLifeMatters @Maximus7Maximus7 said:If you want an example with Nurse, I also have that:
https://youtu.be/uVDaaG6_iIE
And here, they somehow don't complete that gen despite three people on it, they heal within Nurse's range, and then get outplayed by blinks. Game effectively ends in less than two minutes. Less opportunity for them to actually outskill here, and I got lucky while also playing pretty damn well, but staying together on a gen vs a killer who can down very quickly is suicide. And staying in her TR (with or without M&A) to heal is a bad idea.https://youtu.be/uVDaaG6_iIE
Okay, I'll just use your YouTube video to determine whether or not the killer was good or the survivor was bad.
Killer's Skill Throughout The Video:
This Nurse knew her blink range and had knew how to lock on to a survivor after a blink! This is a great sign that the killer is really good and knows what they are doing!
Video: 0:56
Dwight was greedy and tried to repair a generator when the Nurse was in plain sight. This results in a unnecessary hit that could've been avoided.
Video: 1:07
Meg heals within Nurse's Calling range despite the fact that she knew that the Nurse was in her general area (3rd person PoV and context clues). This results in the first down because of a rookie mistake which shouldn't be made by rank 1 survivors.
Video: 1:38
Claudette attempts to flashlight save without Iron Will which is a rookie mistake since she assumed that the Nurse couldn't hear her. Therefore, this results in the Nurse hearing her position and causes the Claudette to be the second downed survivor.
Video: 1:47
Another rookie mistake by TWO survivors healing in Nurse's Calling range. Even if they wasn't in her terror radius, seeing how close the Claudette was downed at should have have gave them a warning to stop healing. Consequently, this results in the David being downed and soon after the Dwight.
That's it, game over in 1:56!
As you can see, the survivors made a ton of mistakes while the killer capitalized on them. Obviously by the video, the survivors had no idea how to play against a Nurse which ultimately led to a 2 minute game. Therefore proves my statement, "If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side."
Summary:
The killer demonstrated great blink technique, great muscle memory, and knew the basic killer mechanics. Furthermore, the killer capitalized on the survivors mistakes with great execution! Therefore, we can conclude that this killer was very good.
One the other hand, the survivors were the complete opposite. They made multiple mistakes as mentioned above which shows that they didn't know what they were doing. Therefore, these survivors are just bad since they made too many mistakes for the Nurse to capitalize on. -
Like don't get me wrong, Umbra is damn good, but I've gen rushed her in a duo queue before. Granted, Huntress on Ormond sucks, but she, Marth, and Scott have all been gen rushed. And they've all 4k'd in less than 3-4 minutes.
Hell, if you want a good example, ScottJund (while tryharding) barely pipped against Depip squad without perks. If it takes a killer of that caliber to pip against a good perkless survivor squad, there is a goddamn problem. -
If you want an example with Nurse, I also have that:https://youtu.be/uVDaaG6_iIE
And here, they somehow don't complete that gen despite three people on it, they heal within Nurse's range, and then get outplayed by blinks. Game effectively ends in less than two minutes. Less opportunity for them to actually outskill here, and I got lucky while also playing pretty damn well, but staying together on a gen vs a killer who can down very quickly is suicide. And staying in her TR (with or without M&A) to heal is a bad idea. -
I'll make this easier for you guys who are still arguing about this. Here's a video where I play Billy pretty damn well:
https://youtu.be/xzugESV6Pxw
Game effectively ends (all 4 downed or hooked) in less than two minutes. Yet a gen still got done in about 30 seconds. Granted, three people were all on the same gen, but still, pretty damn ridiculous.
I can tell you these survivors were potatoes. Could not juke a chainsaw to save their life, the Feng didn't even attempt to BBQ juke, I only saw Bill because he ran right last me on my right, and Adam didn't even get off the gen in time.
Did I play well? ######### yeah I did. Did the survivors play well? Not in the slightest.
If they did play well, I would have got one down max at that gen, then the others would spread out and run away to other gens. -
Didn't the Depip squad already prove Pii's point by the fact that only a 5-blink Nurse could pip against them when they ran perks and items? And you barely pipped with a damn good loadout against them when they all went perkless.ScottJund said:
If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteedPiiFree said:@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.
Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.
And before you say "nobody plays like that", I've had game after game after game where everyone just gets gens done, pop Adrenaline (usually 2-4 of them), and get out. I don't even blink anymore when I see three gens pop before my first hook as anyone other than Nurse or Billy, it's starting to get that bad. Your point about the way survivors played used to be correct, but survivors en masse for some reason decided to play smarter. And now the game's core balance issues are being shown more and more.
Though also to Pii's point, saying OchiDo is skilled is really.......outlandish tbh. Marth's Depip squad would have been a much better group to use for his argument. -
Except as soon as survivors realize you have Discordance, they either split up and do separate gens (the old meta strat) or just power through a gen in less than 30 seconds easily while another person gets chased. Discordance is nothing more than a band-aid fix, and one that doesn't exactly work too well (or at all) against coordinated groups that want to win by the most efficient strat (which will always be split up and do separate gens).powerbats said:@MojoTheFabulous said:
I'm assuming this is 3 people on a Gen right? Because i'm pretty sure that was usually around 33 seconds anyway. So this isn't really a big deal.Which is something these people seem to forget that 3 people hitting great skill checks will kill a gen fast which is why Discordance is so nice for the smart killers that use it.
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First off, I'm not that guy. That was a friend of mine who just had a rage moment, nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't ever say someone should actually kill themselves, I've been down that path and it's not pretty. While I'll joke about it from time to time, I know the ramifications of actually meaning it or saying it to the wrong person. What I do condone, however, is letting the devs know when they screwed up, and they screwed up big time with this patch.SenzuDuck said:@Maximus7 said:
If this is possible with two [BAD WORD] people, there's a goddamn problem: https://clips.twitch.tv/TriumphantEasyMilkJKanStyleAre you the guy telling the developers to kill themselves? You seem lovely!
Edit: and even if you're not - it's not exactly a nice thing to say over a video game lmfao.
This may surprise you with some of the comments I've seen from you here, but sometimes, a developer pushes out a bad fix. And BHVR kind of has a reputation or bad patches. Nowhere in Prove Thyself's description does it say it doesn't stack with toolboxes or other bonuses, and it even says the bonus for it is applied to every other survivor on the generator with you.powerbats said:What probably happened was it got changed on their side properly but for some reason the change didn't activate client side like it was supposed to. We'll probably get a hotfix shortly or the perk will get temp disabled.
@MojoTheFabulous not sure what situation Sorrowen specifically was talking about here, but from my experience, it only requires two people, toolboxes, and PT to do gens in 30 seconds at most. With three people and no toolboxes with PT, I think the time it takes is more like 25? But that's an estimate, not actual math. -
If this is possible with two ######### people, there's a goddamn problem: https://clips.twitch.tv/TriumphantEasyMilkJKanStyle
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Basically have two other survivors on this gen: https://clips.twitch.tv/TriumphantEasyMilkJKanStyle
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No, they cause medium vaults from fast vaults. Which means that thanks to the buff, he doesn't slow down survivor vaults by as much. Which is a hard nerf.Morfedel said:@Maximus7 said:
The nerf we talked about in Marth's discord was that medium vaults (which he causes with his power) got buffed, which is a huge nerf to him specifically. His power is now worthless.Wait, you mean his bottles and intoxication causes medium vaults... from slow vaults?
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The nerf we talked about in Marth's discord was that medium vaults (which he causes with his power) got buffed, which is a huge nerf to him specifically. His power is now worthless.
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No, his slowdown got reduced and he slows down even more than he used to when he throws a bottle. Not sure when this nerf took place, but I can confirm it was between patch 2.2 and 2.4. I think it was 2.4 when they moved to the new engine and he was edited somehow.
Also Huntress just got the second part of that shadow nerf this patch. Because we needed shadow nerfs.
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Honestly, I'm fine with removal of all mori offerings and making it so if someone is on death hook you can mori them. However, making Cypress baseline is also a good idea.
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Tru3Lemon said:
@Maximus7 said:
So you get gen rushed because nobody healed. Not that big of an issue, right? Everyone's injured, you can just try to slug for at least 1 or 2 kills before they open an exit gate?Adrenaline. Not only do you lose a chase due to a 5-second Haste effect, but everyone who was injured is fully healed, or everyone downed is running around again. This perk has ruined all momentum any killer can get before they have the gens completed, and just having this perk alone basically makes healing useless when you can complete 2 gens in the same time it would take to heal.
Now, the 5-second Haste is fine, but healing a full health state? And also waking up from Freddy's dream world? Absolutely ridiculous. People have finally realized how broken it is and in a 4-man swf, me and many others just run all Adrenaline and gen rush without healing. It's broken. It is game-changing. It needs a nerf.
so youre saying that adredaline its broken what about insta down addons with ebano mori. the problem its that if you really want this to get nerf then the game will be broken cuz remember that 70% or less i dont know killers tunnel and camp and the mayority cannot use adredaline cuz they didint finish the last gen
I can't get out of the quote textbox on mobile, REEEEEEE.
Anyway, yes, I don't like insta-down add-ons into ebony moris, either. It's why I always refrained from using Iri Head on my Huntress (I have like 50ish Iri Heads just in case I run into some toxic #########). I'd love for those to be reworked as well. Both sides have bullshit options, and reworking said options would be a great step towards balancing the game.
And II'm sorry, but if you can't survive until the end with how fast gens progress, then one of three things happened:
1. You went down way too fast.
2. You and/or your team doesn't know how to do gens
3. You got camped to oblivion.
Two of those are completely in your control, and in the case of the third one, he sacrifices the entire game just to kill you. So the team should do gens and get out. -
Again, not defending moris, I honestly don't like them either. But are we seriously defending DS and Adrenaline? Like, why the hell are we actually pretending DS is fair and balanced?powerbats said:@Maximus7 said:
Ebony Mori is more broken that ds and adrenaline and nobody mentions
But it's not??? Ebony moris, while pretty bullshit, still require you to do your job and hook a survivor first. DS rewards you for losing in a chase and Adrenaline rewards you for focusing on gens instead of healing yourself, getting rid of any pressure the killer accumulated during the match if all 4 had it.
The former perhaps the latter rewards you for doing your job which is DOING GENS and if you're the person playing catch me if you can. Then DS is rewarding you for choosing it and actually getting away but if you're never chased, get dribbled, slugged, dropped into the basement.
You get hooked but never get unhooked to use it again, get camped, get mori'd by Rancor or DH, sandbagged by a teammate etc.
The Ebony mori is a guaranteed kill on anyone that's been hooked, no 2nd chances, no wiggling free and running off nada zip zero zilch. You can't fail a skill check with it, you can't get dribbled, slugged or anything like that.
For Adrenaline, yes, your job is doing gens, but when completing your job allows you to get rid of any pressure the killer ever had, that is a huge problem. Not to mention it completely ignores exhaustion AND is pocketed for use whenever you're off a hook or dropped by the killer.
For DS, it's a free escape. Full stop. You lost a chase yet get off the killer's shoulder for hitting a skill check, which you all play skill check simulator on gens anyway. If you don't get to use the perk, that's your fault for going down too close to a hook. -
While I don't think this would make the perk "meta", it would be a lot more useful than it currently is. However, I can imagine trying to code it to work with Huntress's hum instead of her actual TR would be weird (since perks like M&A and Distressing affect her actual TR and do nothing to her hum, it would seem they would have to make an exception in coding to refer to survivors in her hum radius).
This seems like a fair idea, because being completely deaf to everything else during a chase could be a bit too strong.TAG said:Can we maybe have them have to be in your TR without being in a chase (similar to Stake Out) to be hit with the penalty? I worry it might be a bit of a problem if you can aquire this penalty a second time in a row in the middle of a chase. -
But it's not??? Ebony moris, while pretty bullshit, still require you to do your job and hook a survivor first. DS rewards you for losing in a chase and Adrenaline rewards you for focusing on gens instead of healing yourself, getting rid of any pressure the killer accumulated during the match if all 4 had it.Arroz said:@Maximus7 said:
So you get gen rushed because nobody healed. Not that big of an issue, right? Everyone's injured, you can just try to slug for at least 1 or 2 kills before they open an exit gate?Adrenaline. Not only do you lose a chase due to a 5-second Haste effect, but everyone who was injured is fully healed, or everyone downed is running around again. This perk has ruined all momentum any killer can get before they have the gens completed, and just having this perk alone basically makes healing useless when you can complete 2 gens in the same time it would take to heal.
Now, the 5-second Haste is fine, but healing a full health state? And also waking up from Freddy's dream world? Absolutely ridiculous. People have finally realized how broken it is and in a 4-man swf, me and many others just run all Adrenaline and gen rush without healing. It's broken. It is game-changing. It needs a nerf.
Ebony Mori is more broken that ds and adrenaline and nobody mentions
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I'm all for the Clown buffs. Right now his power doesn't help him enough in the sole purpose it's designed for, which is slowing down loops. These buffs are nice.
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Better idea than what is currently in place tbh. But I'd rather there be a required second objective instead of an optional one.
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Yeah, she's hard to play. And it is hard to hit those hatchets over some obstacles. She's a skill-based killer, part of why I like her.
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The thing is he doesn't need a rework, and he's not as weak as everyone think he is. His end-game sucks without the right builds, but A: Remember Me (with or without Rancor) can be devastating, and B: even if you don't build for the end-game, you can stall long enough to at least get one or two before they power the gates.Kaelum said:@Maximus7 Feddy’s current power is what is broken. Once the gates are powered, it is game over, as he has to put you to sleep before he can do anything to stop you. The devs have said that tweaking Freddy is not an option, as he is too broken, and it would require breaking other things for other killers. Which is why he is getting a complete rework, from the ground up. -
The old machine gun hatchets were even worse lmao. Old Tinkerer was cancer.MegMain98 said:@Rebel_Raven said:
She really is my favorite killer. First killer I went with, and part of the reason I started playing.
Efficient, not super addon reliant, and as of now my only killer with 3 of the 4 bloodpoint perks. I don't have the 4th (bbq. Not saddling myself with a killer I'm not interested in.) So with all that in mind, she is very helpful.Her looks, and lore are also pretty great, too.
Her hatchets really do need help, though. They are pretty obviously there to help stop loops, but they are almost impossible to throw over obstacles you can see over.
Also they seem pretty easy to dodge now that I paid enough attention.I loved her backstory as well and her look is imposing as she is the only tall female killer. I didn’t start playing her until a few weeks ago, before that it was solely Myers and Spirit.
Her hatchets are super wonky, the hitboxes are weird and hopefully when the game gets dedicated servers it’ll solve some of the issues.
She also probably has one of the most OP builds if paired with an Ebony. Iridescent Head and an Infantry Belt is nasty.
Her hatchets are the way they are because of how survivor hurtboxes are designed. Patch 2.2 made her hatchet hitboxes more proportional to the size of the hatchet, but did nothing to the survivor hurtboxes, so hatchets would just phase through survivors' faces, limbs, and shoulders. So it's more about hitbox manipulation than anything, though latency does have a role to play in some of the "wonky" hits.
@Rebel_Raven you'd be surprised how much ######### you can throw over if you have good enough aim. Though it can be really tough and require pin-point accuracy to still hit survivors while throwing over stuff. -
I find Whispers mandatory on her for this reason. It tells you if survivors are just being immersed around you or if you're actually not gonna find anyone in a specific area.JowDaddyy said:I think the range of her humming needs to be reduced, you can hear her from a ridiculous distance and it serves as the main reason why I never use her.
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Honestly, Freddy just needs Adrenaline and Self-Care to not be able to wake up survivors. Then he'd be mid-tier at worst. He has the best stall out of all the killers and can keep multiple survivors asleep and busy. What cucks him the most is the same problem every killer has: gen times.
