LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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All really good points. While I LIKE the new system, I dislike that Dailies feel mandatory to complete the Rift now. Not everyone ca afford the time to play all day every day; people have jobs and lives outside of DBD. It smacks of trying to bait people into playing, and comes off as manipulative.
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I play pretty much only M1s, maybe you're all just up at turbosweat levels but I'm still playing them and doing relatively OK. I don't like any of the speedy Killers or most of the M2s, I've tried them and I dislike them all basically, so I just don't really play them. Plus I don't really care about wins at all anymore, I just go in and see how I do. Trying to care about wins in this game, either side, just isn't worth it and leads to a more negative experience for me, so I stopped caring about Escapes and 3-4ks entirely. I'm much happier now.
At least on my end, M1s are plentiful and Survs seem happy enough even when I do 3-4k them all. But when I play Survivor it's only M2s. Like… only M2s. I only see M2s.
It's a problem for sure.
That's sorta what happens when you keep nerfing all the tools M1s have to control the map, but then never give them anything to compensate like mobility. If BHVR wants to keep these Killers viable, then either Survivors need to admit they are playing WAY too hardball and be encouraged to cool down like A LOT en masse - like, "Maybe I don't need to bring these crazy perks, this syringe, or this stacked toolbox every game with a map offering in my SWF" en masse - or all M1 Killers NEED to be given some kind of strong haste or mobility effect. If this is how the game is going to go from now on, it might be time.The alternative of course is that BHVR is trying like hell to move everyone away from the concept of winning and losing rounds being important at all, by shifting away the idea that a win means anything special through subtle changes that make winning less satisfying and losing give you something anyway - see the quest system changes basically throwing rewards at you for completing the easiest possible tasks. It could be they plan on eventually deposing the emblem and Grade system entirely, or at least trying to de-emphasize MMR as a thing you can "win" or "lose". The game is so random anyway, who actually cares what Killer you pick if you get results? And who really cares what the results are if you set your wincons more flexibly?
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I personally enjoy the more casual nature of the new quest system but I am disappointed they made the Rift grindier to compensate. It's like they're being stingy with rift fragments now and making it take more to do anything, which is deeply frustrating. I work a 9-5, I don't have time to play every day or every other day. The least they could do is make us gain more fragments per round, I could take or leave the dailies. It is nice so many of them give shards, though it should be MORE shards than this.
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I mean, aren't Killers intended to have a weakness? If Killers have no weaknesses Survivors can never win.
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@Yoshirama said:
we need to next prevention, but first they need to fix the causes of it, aka tunneling and camping… and some fixes to some maps and killers (some anime boy) then we can talk about the go next prevention
When I play Survivor, I get way way way more upset at people abandoning because they "feel tunnelled/camped" or "don't like the Killer/Map/my team" or "didn't get their way" more than I do at Killers who actually tunnel and camp. Survivors giving up is what REALLY ruins my games, to the point I barely play Survivor anymore.
It's not Killers. It's Survivors. Why they are doing it isn't the issue here. The problem is they're doing it, and it's ruining games. -
I'm hopeful they do something with Ghostie's reveal. He now has double the eyes on him, it could become a problem if the Devs aren't careful. He could functionally NEVER get his power…
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I love seeing Moris and always stay for them unless they're Plague or Legion, so speak for yourself OP. But I have no issue with people choosing to go next during it.
I do not however think it should count as a draw for Survivor in this case, it should count as a loss because they got Mori'd. They lost.
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Accidental double post LOL
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"It feels like slugging but on the Killer side."
That's absolutely true, @justadreampallet, well said! That's exactly what it feels like.
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Distortion blocked 50+ perks, powers, items, and entire builds. It was encouraging ratting and not teamwork. It was ruining Survivors' games, not just Killers, because people would use it to not do anything and just hide in the corner. It had to change, the change was good. Accept this, Distortion does not need a revert and should not be reverted.
There are still ways to handle aura reading, Off the Record is my go to. But the Devs never intended the game to be about the Killer not being able to find and interact with you at all while all your friends die so you can get the hatch.
If aura reading does turn out to be excessive, then BHVR can fix it later. But I don't know how excessive it is when it's mostly used as the equivalent for Killer that chase perks are for Survivor - to handle chase by getting into chase sooner/out of chase faster.
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All of what OP posted.
All of it. Make it so, BHVR. THEN you can look at buffing the Survivors' perks, which they also desperately need. Make the Killer side fair first, then start repairing the game so Survivors do not feel they have gotten the shaft!
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I just wanna see how fast I can pick up if the cap gets removed.
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Wiggling is a lot like the AFC - it's there to prevent an excessive griefing thing, that being the Killer preventing a Survivor from leaving the game by carrying them forever. It's just long enough to limit the Killer's ability to mess with Survivors in an unfair way, but just short enough that it IS possible to wiggle out if you're being treated this way.
It's also not intended that Survivors completely prevent Killers from ever hooking at all. The Devs have stated this a few times now in their design intent and their own words. Yes, the wiggle issue previously with Boil Over was that bad, and many years ago it was changed to stop SURVIVOR griefing, which it did… so I'm afraid wiggling has to stay like this.
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@Caiman said:
I think being able to do multiple tasks simultaneously is going to be a great change. That's the only real opinion I have.
I agree this is a good change, and I hope the change also removes some of the more obnoxious glyphs. Does anyone even enjoy doing the Pink, Yellow, or Orange glyphs at all? I don't.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921641#Comment_3921641
I remember the time I used face camping alongside hook grab to almost guarantee adapt regardless of killers, good times
It was pretty strong, especially against those who aren't SWF, just grab once and game is practically over
Exactly. I do miss the cheeky hook grabs (never liked face camping and it's not even effective on the Killers I play), but it's a small price to pay to get rid of an obnoxious bully tactic.
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I wonder what they will actually do to these two Killers for powers? it's so exciting to see the addition of them, as well as these "Fog Crystals" whatever those are. I wonder if they will make it harder to see the map or darken the map in some way? Imagine - darker stealthier maps could add a jumpscare element to the already chaotic 2v8 mode!
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@Cassiopeiae said:
The decision to base the game's core design around looping mechanics becomes questionable when many killer powers either trivialize or bypass this element entirely—often reducing gameplay to little more than "holding W" to reach the next loop. Granting killers tools that effectively shut down the only engaging and skill-based aspect of the game for both sides seems less like thoughtful design and more like a band-aid solution. It's a reactive approach aimed at securing quicker downs to compensate for how swiftly survivor objectives can be completed. This is emblematic of Dead by Daylight’s ongoing tendency to address the symptoms of flawed design rather than confronting and resolving the root issues.
The community often exhibits a strong "us vs. them" mentality, particularly with killer players making remarks such as, "If playing survivor is so unenjoyable, why play at all?" This perspective ignores a key reality: the game's ongoing success is less a reflection of its quality and more a result of its addictive nature. Players continue engaging with Dead by Daylight not because it consistently offers a well-designed or enjoyable experience, but because it taps into the kind of compulsive engagement that keeps them coming back, even when the fun is long gone. Many seem to have lost sight of the fact that games are fundamentally meant to be fun. Instead, they find themselves trapped in a cycle of chasing that rare enjoyable match amid a sea of lopsided stomps—outcomes often predetermined before the trial even begins. Whether it’s a well-coordinated SWF steamrolling a killer stuck in 2016 mechanics, or a Solo Queue team of bots and one decent player facing an overpowered killer, the imbalance swings both ways, and it’s exhausting.
Given the current state of the game, can anyone truly be surprised when survivors opt to immediately queue for the next match? The fact that survivor queues are instant just reinforces how miserable the role is. Everyone’s rushing to escape bad matches and hope the next one’s better.
This is put far better than I ever could put it, this game was much much better with fewer antiloop Killers, period. It felt more fair without these Killers as being so common, it felt managable as Survivor. It also felt more managable as Killer, and could have been balanced much easier.
I just don't see the fun or skill in playing as, or against, Killers that can negate looping or make looping obsolete. Doesn't anyone just wanna mindgame anymore? I sure don't have any fun going against a Killer than can down us all before a single gen gets done. I don't like feeling obligated to shove gens super fast and get out quickly. I don't enjoy being the poor M1 Killer with no haste or mobility stuck against a team like that either!Frankly I just wish the Devs would put their money where their mouth is and offer more concrete ways to reward players for alternate wincons. It's long past time to do it; give us something besides kills and escapes to go for. Maybe if Survivors got rewarded in a tiered way like Killers did for kills, it would help? Maybe if there were more ways to get pips and emblems felt more substantial? I don't know. I don't know the solution.
But I do know I really only play Surv for maintenance and to slam through challenges anymore these days, certainly not for more fun. Killer is just… more fun. Always has been. Always will be.
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@HeroLives said:
clears throat~ things I’ve heard survivors say on why:
Killer is op
Map is too small
Bad teammates(big mistakes, or just not doing anything)
Too many anti-loop killers
Horrible gen spawn
Horrible pallet spawns
Tired of seeing ghoul
killer already tunneled someone out, no chanceKiller slugging just to slug(not tactful slugging that creates pressure)
They realize they’re absolutely boned due to xyz circumstance why finish a match that you know is going to end horribly anyways.
Pig and trapper op please nerf
Did I miss anything? Feel free to the list if I did. This is just what I’ve heard.
Gee cap, that just sounds like unfortunately, there's a small but vocal group of Survivors that are really, really poor sports… :(
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It's meant to handle the most annoying, griefing form of camping: facecamping. It's not meant to handle TACTICAL camping, which the Devs seem to feel is strategy and intended play - that is, the Devs seem to feel that SOME protection of contested hooks (to find Survivors) is part of the game for the Killer. Alongside removal of hook grabs, it really has entirely removed face camping as a tool, as it was 100% of the time used to grief and nothing else. Not even the weakest Killers in the game ever had to face camp, all it did was ruin the game for that one Survivor. If you really want to secure that one last kill this way that badly, it still exists, you can still do it - in the endgame and only in the endgame during collapse.
The AFC was never meant to remove checking and defending hooks to find new Survivors coming to unhook, as that's a form of Killer pressure. It was meant to combat and prevent a form of griefing, and it has done that extremely well, making the game better for everyone by removing a nuisance and teaching Killers how to pressure better around hooks instead of just facecamp. One of BHVR's good changes in recent years! What needs fixing now with it is stuff like ranged Killers and dash Killers abusing proxy camping, NOT to make it bigger. Because seriously, how many zipcodes is the Killer allowed to be away from the hook before Survivors think they are "no longer camping"?
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@brewingtea said:
If the exit gates are opened, and the killer "Abandons" the game, it should just count as if everyone remaining escaped. Yes, you could just go chase them out, but I think this would be a fine QOL addition.
This. No reason NOT to include it. It could even autocomplete endgame challenges for Survivors. Just Leave, PLEASE.
@MissiCiv said:
Honestly, it’s unbelievable that some still defend this behavior. Everyone knows why Survivors linger at the gate until the timer runs out: just to rub their win in your face with teabags and flashlight clicks if you approach. It’s pure toxicity. Instead of implementing something that actually discourages this and helps reduce toxicity, we’re being told to either “go AFK” or “just hit them out” — as if that’s an actual solution.
And this isn't about being “too sensitive,” to BM, it’s about a flawed game loop that allows and even encourages toxic endgame behavior. Giving killers the option to abandon without penalty when the game is over, would reduce frustration and make the endgame feel less like a taunt session.
The abandon feature is already available for survivors. If it were implemented properly for killers as well in situations like these, it would be a very reasonable solution.
Exactly, it's indefensible and it's griefing. It's time to call it what it is: griefing. Teabagging in the gates and noise spam and clicking at the Killer to push you out is griefing. It's done to annoy the Killer, nothing else, it provides NO benefit whatsoever to anyone as Survivors, it's just done to annoy the Killer and that is ALL. BM is BM is BM. We should punish BM by making it unsatisfying to do.
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Because disconnects ruin the game for people. I think they ought to be longer.
@Neaxolotl said:
you literally wrote very reason in your post
"first guy immediately saw it was a kaneki and noped out DC'ing immediately", yeah that's the EXACT reason why your match was miserable, and the reason why penalty must exist
I don't even understand why you managed to get a conclusion which is "dc penalty shouldn't exist"
This is the reason exactly. I don't need to even add more. You're right, Neaxolotl.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921558#Comment_3921558
Gonna be honest man, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest anyone on the survivor side is intentionally aiming for a stall out victory
I have faced this sort of petty "well we're just gonna hide and hold you in the round as long as possible because there's only two of us left and we don't want to give you ANY amount of a win so there!" before. It's not common but I have seen it.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921175#Comment_3921175
Well, yes, as I said, it's more interactions. The killer can feign being blinded to keep up the subterfuge, but once they block a flashlight save, the jig is up. This is a buff to Lightborn...
However the advantage for Survivor is now, perks like Champion of Light and Residual Manifest do actually work against the killer, since the killer is still considered blinded.
This means on pick up, these perks would slow the killer and/or make it so they wouldn't see hook auras. Might make no difference... or it might help make a save the Survivor team would have otherwise found impossible.
Considering Lightborn isn't even considered a good perk with 100% immunity (look at it's history, it has been buffed repeatedly back before the modern DBD era where perks getting buffed was rare), unless the plan is to delete the perk, this seems the most balanced compromise.
But is blinding a fun interaction for everyone?
What about chain blinding?
Is it maybe time to consider this mechanic differently again? Just some possible things to ask here. -
My issue with all you just said, Ampersand, is that despite fundamentals it takes TIME to learn new Killers' powers. Shouldn't it be the case you have kinda less difficult Survivors while learning a new Killer's power? Why set them at the same level or roughly about the same level as your most successful Killer? I agree once the fundamentals are learned you ought to be out of the Kiddie Pool, but every Killer also plays differently and some powers can be more difficult to master. Why start a Killer you never played at the same level as one you play frequently? They aren't the same.
I also do not care about smurfing, I think it's an overexaggerated issue. As long as there's a hard cap you can't go below after you're out of. That's frankly all the game needs to prevent smurfing, IMHO.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921177#Comment_3921177
It can and should have more. But it needs a baseline one, preferably one that is at least mostly zero sum. the "4 1v1's" fits that bill, which is why having these abandon scenarios result the way they do kinda break that system. Its not even an MMR thing, MMR is just the most objective (even if heavily flawed) way of reaching that conclusion. Personally I thought the pip system was a healthier version of a similar concept, but in the end there just needs to be clear and logically consistent win/lose outcomes, with draws being used sparingly for concepts like stalemates and mutual destruction.
And I am not saying to remove this baseline wincon. My point is I think the devs need the scoring system to acocunt for MORE than just that one wincon, thus adding more wincons. Making the game feel way more casual. Isn't that what we want, the game to feel less sweaty?
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@Hex_Ignored said:
"Unfortunately, it seems that your mmr is 1 point lower than mine, which automatically invalidates your opinion"
Every post ever if they would release mmr, which is why they (probably) will never do that.
This is, OP, exactly why they don't do it, Hex_Ignored is right.
And MMR in fact for this reason alone should never, ever be shown, ever. -
@Blueberry said:
"Why are killers mmrs separate and start at zero?"
They realistically aren't, and they don't.
Based on what they've told us and my own personal experience, even a killer I've never played once will still be at like 90% the mmr of my main.
A killer they've never played should start significantly lower than what they do currently. They're keeping them so close currently that separate mmr doesn't realistically exist.
In the same way we see some killers overperforming, there are a lot underperforming (like the majority of the roster) if their data is even remotely close to nightlights.
I think both you and OP here are correct.
It's frankly absurd to have MMR for new killers be partial to your best performing Killer. It's also nonsensical to ONLY have MMR for Survivors increase on escapes while it only increases/decreases on Killers based on kills - so Killers therefore always end up facing way harder battles later while Survivors always seem to get stuck with awful teammates. It feels really bad too that you lose MMR more slowly than you gain.
Why not just make it linear and based on some other metric? I'll never understand… -
@Dwightyboii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920900#Comment_3920900
because the nurse has the movement speed because she can traverse the map in second idk how that is apparent to you, they did that to her because she was doing the same that ghoul and blight are doing to ppl right now. Ghoul and bound put you in mend and then bound in front of you before you can even get near a pallet and come out of it and m1 because his movement speed doesn’t give you a chance to get any distance atleast the nurse you get a little room to move.
Yes, and that is a bad way to balance. The Nurse needs a power rework, not to have other Killers that are speedy put in her mold of 90% base speed. Going slower than Survivors is not fun and feels clunky, and also makes fewer people play them.
Just set them at 110% and change the power. Survivors aren't intended to loop a Killer forever. -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920896#Comment_3920896
Ive always been a proponent of personal wincons, especially since the can add bittersweetness to otherwise demoralizing defeat. But pvp games, regardless of whether they are casual or strictly competitive, need wincons. Even Mario Party, Fall Guys, Mahjong, Go Fish, even damn Pogs… pretty much everything where one or more players are at odds need at least one unified, concrete wincon to measure their objective completion. SBMM was designed to adhere to this (for better or worse) as was the rank/pip system before it. There needs to be a unified feedback system so players can gauge both their effectiveness at succeeding in their role's objective, as well as have any metric to determine how they fared againt the player(s) they were at odds with.
I agree that pvp games need wincons. I just think DBD needs MORE wincons. The ones we have now aren't enough and clearly do not feel good, increase sweat, and ruin the more casual nature of the game. So why not just add more possible ways to win or alter what a win is?
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@Dwightyboii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920898#Comment_3920898
The nurse is still S tier lol not sure what you’re trying to say. Killers shouldn’t have the same speed as a m1 killer who’s only ability is to set traps and then has to race across the map to get to them before they get loose hence why he needs that speed… it’s pretty self explanatory!!
I don't actually care how strong a given Killer is and neither should anyone else.
I care if the Killer feels good to play. The Nurse, IMHO, does not. I don't care if she's S tier, it literally does not matter. She feels clunky and bad to play, and it's a direct result of nerfing her speed in favor of not just redesigning her power entirely.
Killers should not be slower or as slow as Survivors. Come on now… -
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920889#Comment_3920889
I think this could be a very healthy way to keep the perk's effect but give Survivors something for it, but it wouldn't make much sense would it? Shouldn't they only get the points if they do blind?
Well all this revised Lightborn is doing is making you immune to the effects of being blinded, instead of what what it does now, which is make you immune to blind period, so we have no interactions whatsoever.
In the fantasy world of DBD, there is basically no difference, the only things that are different are the more meta aspects of the perk regarding how the game representation of being "blinded" is translated to the survivor (the beam narrowing, the blind sound effect playing and the scire event occurring for the survivor... none of which would happen in the "real" world of DBD).
Unlike other beasts of The Fog, you have adapted to light.
As such, I think it makes sense, you are Lightborn, so you have adapted to not be affected by being blinded. So survivors can blind you, but it gives you none of the negative effects.
So you get blinded but not stunned, and none of the screen effect?
That just seems like it still makes trying to flashlight useless as now Survivors will just slwo themselves down and end up as sitting ducks for points, isn't that the same problem? -
There are four times the Survivors than there are Killers. These forums have become just like reddit since the return of downvotes, it was a mistake in such a tribal-minded community as this one.
I recently did an experiment: when I had a Survivor profile image I raked in more upvotes than downvotes. The second I swapped to a Killer PFP? I got branded a "Killer Main" despite making posts about both sides of the game and being fair to both, and here come all the downvotes. They can zerg rush with downvotes in a way more Killer preferential Players cannot, despite people who prefer Killer often being older hands, older players, and often more nuanced people who have in fact played both sides and just decided Killer was the more fun role long term.
This is why returning downvotes was a terrible idea, nobody actually uses them as anything other than to troll and bury ideas they do not agree with… And yes. It proves that there's a lot more angry Survivors than angry Killers. Probably because, Survivor by nature is the victim role and just has never ever been all that fun in long stretches…
As proof, I predict this very post will get probably double the downvotes than upvotes. Watch this space.
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@Dwightyboii said:
I'd say something needs to happen about most killers like blight ghoul & etc having the same base movement speed as the trapper… doesn't make any sense to me
Why?
You have posted this everywhere today. Why do Killers need to be nerfed like Nurse was (which wasn't even effective)?Please give a solid and well thought out reason why and how this would work.
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@Dwightyboii said:
This wouldn't be much of an issue if most the killers who can teleport/traverse the map in second didn't have the same base movement speed as the trapper….
So my main Dredge should be made as clunky and slow as Nurse because Dredge can teleport? Myers should be given free haste on top of the speed he gets from Tier III because he's an M1 Killer?
Make this make sense, this makes no sense. Some Killers being faster than others due to their power doesn't mean they need to be hard nerfed the way Nurse was; Nurse is exactly the posterchild for why we DON'T balance around movement speed like this… -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920792#Comment_3920792
Then what are winning and losing? What is drawing? How do they actually provide feedback to any of these outcomes other than flavor text on the tally screen? Most people would rather the wincon NOT be how MMR works, and even after its introduction many clung to pips and emblems as their personal wincon. The way the abandon system is being introduced, the feedback becomes both irrelevant and detatched from the closest thing we have to an objective measure. Its almost like they're trying to lessen both gloating and frustration and just confusing everybody in the process.
My whole point is maybe we need to stop thinking in terms of wins and losses and draws based on MMR… and start thinking in terms of "how well did I do? How many gens/hooks did I get? How many chases did I succeed? How many uses of my power did I have? How many saves did I get?"
Not "did I escape/3-4k?", which is what MMR measures. We're saying the same thing, but not in the same way. People seem to just want to be able to win or lose or draw based on other things besides kills and escapes. I agree. MMR is no way to measure success in this game.
I agree it's very confusing. I wish the Devs would be more clear about it, if this is their goal, to make gloating less satisfying and frustration less frustrating. But BHVR's never been great at communicating… -
@Memesis said:
Hot take, I absolutely hate Chaos Shuffle, but love Lights Out. Both sides.
I actually like the concept of both modes, but I prefer Lights Out because again, both sides don't have any BS or any tricks. Nobody has anything. It's just skill versus skill, making it hardcore DBD but fair. Killers have only their basekit, which is their power and reading auras of gens and hooks. Survivors have only their basekit, which is looping and doing gens, plus in Lights Out 2.0 have some ability to counter the Killer's basekit so it's not as unfair to them. Balanced. Fun. More horror themed like the game was at the start. It's just the more interesting and frankly balanced mode. I like it both sides. I have won and lost games in it both sides. It's fine. Bring it back.
@Dwightyboii said:
I'd say something needs to happen about most killers like blight ghoul & etc having the same base movement speed as the trapper… doesn't make any sense to me
I think if they do that then you need to make Trapper and Killers like that be higher speed to keep up with Mobility Killers, not make the speedier Killers as clunky as Nurse feels base speed…
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@UndeddJester said:
I still want the effect of Lightborn to be immune to the blind effects instead of being immune to blinds.
Would mean the survivors beam narrows, they still get their score event (and challenges) and the game considers them blind for other effects, but you don't get the blind splash, stunned while carrying, or the lunge being disabled.
It would mean Killer would want some degree of acting blind to not give the game away and keep getting value which would be fun.
It would also have synergy for Shadownborn and Hex: Two Can Play, while also being somewhat countered by Champion of Light and Residual Manifest.
More interactions, much more interesting as a perk, and a much healthier design for future perks and mechanics
I think this could be a very healthy way to keep the perk's effect but give Survivors something for it, but it wouldn't make much sense would it? Shouldn't they only get the points if they do blind?
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920769#Comment_3920769
How about you read when I say I was laughing at her having Lightborn coz she was so confident and I think it could be back to being slowed down, not it SHOULD be.
If anything what killer needs is a dark mode for being blinded so you aren't straining your eyes at it, I play killer and this is what I'd prefer personally.
How about you consider people don't like having the item they earned nullified, it's the same as having your killer power made useless by a flashlight… I wonder when we removed that hmmm, maybe stopping a player from enjoying their gameplan is lame hmmmm.
But no flashlights are intended for blinding, as are flashbangs. There is a way to please both sides in this interaction, I feel a dark mode would go a long way, or even let lightborn still get blinded but they see the blinders aura during it (so it can still be used to save others).
Killer mains not read what they want to read and percieve only challenge impossible.I agree with all of these but I'm confused why you're being so aggressive here. I didn't come at you aggressively, and I did read your whole post. It wasn't that long. I only said that maybe it's a good idea to consider that the blind mechanic as a whole, when done repeatedly and excessively, isn't fun for the Killer no matter how fun it is for Survivors. A Killer may similarly find tunnelling quite fun, but Survivors obviously don't. That was it, that's my whole point.
I am not a Killer Main, I play both sides. I currently do play exclusively Killer because I am bored of Survivor, but I played almost only Survivor for a whole year and a half before this because I got bored of Killer. I have thousands of hours in the game. I have played for several years. I am not "a Killer Main", I am a "DBD Main".
Since you seemingly just are looking for things to argue over, and so are others, it's probably time I either block you both or bow out of this thread. I have more than made my point, and more rehashing the same stuff here is useless and stupid.
Assuming not making an ass out of U and Me challenge: Impossible. -
I'm sorry but where in the game does it say your goal is to go for blinds, not do gens, not escape, not try to outrun the Killer? Nobody owes you letting you play your specific way, especially if it's a way that is really annoying and has no way to avoid it in certain situations. This is true of tunnelling, true of aura read, true of all stuns… and true of blinds. Heck, it's true of basically all game mechanics!
Saying "wrong, it's not niche" when I just pointed out several times how it is, in fact, niche, does not make a point. It just makes you look like you want to argue. It's also incorrect and demonstrably so as I and everyone else here have pointed out since you don't NEED to blind the Killer to win. It is absolutely super niche to build around going for blinds, I don't know anyone including myself who uses perks like Champion of Light or Blast Mine if I'm not going for a blind challenge or achievement. None of those perks are meta, why use them at all? Blinding itself is just a form of stunning (which is an actual mechanic), and not a particularly subtle or useful one (high risk mid reward), and not one that really is required. Blinding is therefore optional, you opt into doing them, they are a thing you can do in the game. You can always stun a Killer, but you need to bring a blind perk or flashlight or firecracker or something to blind the Killer. You are never forced to do them, it's optional, it's an optional form of the stun mechanic and an optional way to play the game that like hex builds, really is not that effective. That makes it niche by definition, so saying it's not because YOU like doing them and playing that way is quite simply incorrect.There are, speaking as someone who JUST spent a year and a half playing almost exclusively Survivor recently, often in SWF, far far far more fun and interesting and useful ways to stun the Killer and prevent hooks than a flashlight, flashbang, or Blast Mine. In fact it's way more tactical and fun and skilled, IMHO, to do something like set up a pallet stun, or find a way to trap the God Pallet with Chemical Trap, or somehow manage a Breakout-Boil Over-Sabo play, than it is to run in with a flashlight or Flashbang especially when the blind hitboxes recently got fixed from being glitched.
Learn new ways to play. I had to do it when Distortion was changed. I had to do it when Circle of Healing and medkits were changed. I had to do it when MFT+Hope were changed and FTP+Buckle Up were changed. You can also do it too, friend, I believe you are skilled enough. :) You can even do it mid round because Lightborne is that much of a non-issue! If flashlights don't work, simply go for pallet stuns or play for chases or generators. If points are what you want, go cleanse bones, you don't need a hex or boon in play to cleanse bones. If you are that bored of these things, maybe it's time to consider switching roles to Killer or playing something else. If your whole build keeps being negated by Lightborne, maybe it's tme for a new build. Improvise, adapt, do new things when old things don't work, that keeps the game fresh. How many times do you really need to win or play one style to have fun in the game anymore after thousands of hours? I mean really? It's the whole reason I and many others don't even try for winstreaks anymore, we just play the game and see how we do.
You and all of the others here angry that a niche mechanic can be countered may downvote all you like, but it doesn't make me or anyone else saying what I am saying any less correct. It doesn't make it any less niche and BHVR is not going to adjust one perk just to cater to you. Just like I as Killer should not expect my hexes to not get cleansed should I build around them, I as Survivor never expect the Killer to not bring Lightborne if I and my SWF bring and build around many flashlights. Yes sometimes those strategies yield big rewards, but both are too inconsistent enough to be used constantly. So it's really better to just build around something else. Something less annoying. -
@KerJuice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916684#Comment_3916684
Holy 40+ vote down, Batman.
That's what happens when someone makes a bad and really biased, extremely competitive take here. The game is not a hardcore comp e-sport.
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@Ryuhi said:
This is a…. very weird way of implementing these ideas. I've seen a lot of people raise good points about how this can be exploited by either role.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920104#Comment_3920104
Then what do wins/draws/losses even mean? The win condition of the game has always been a nebulous topic in the community, and many people have used MMR changes as a way to have some kind of uniform measure in what defines each outcome ever since ranks/emblems/pips stopped being the main contenders. On survivor you could argue that win/lose could be simplified to a binary of escaped/died (which would completely remove the entire draw aspect in any event) but as killer there are "degrees" of winning on top of losing. Draws then have to be forced into both roles pools due to how these outcomes are designated. The way most of us seem to be understanding it is that win/lose/draw outcome definitions mean literally nothing except what message you get at the tally screen, if they're not even (directly) tied to a tracked (visible to the player or otherwise) metric.
It's all very confusing, and anathema to how win condition outcomes have been both illustrated and discussed within the community and officially.
Also, not a fan of the stacking revert. I'm hoping its due to not being able to iron out the healthiest values to compensate for the lack of stacking at this time. From a design standpoint, minimizing stacking is the key to reigning in a lot of extremes in the game for both sides, and similar limitations like the exhaustion system have proven very effective in the past. I can understand if its just a matter of working out things like how all of the on demand +/- factors work (like clown bottles) and/or things like replacement vs additive timers, but I hope the idea isn't getting scrapped.
Maybe the Devs are trying to kill the idea of a solid wincon, and may even eventually phase out pipping and emblems in exchange for just gaining points?
Maybe escapes and kills are no longer MEANT to be the wincon? Maybe using MMR gain to judge winning… is a bad idea?
I have no idea why on earth this community has decided that MMR = skilled = wincon. But it's long past time to let go of it. We have been wounded and bleeding from this gash that the MMR system has inflicted on us for years, to the point we've all been gaslit to think that winning is all that matters and a "win" is "escape through gate"/"3-4k" only. But yet the Devs SHOW US this is wrong by giving us means to slow down the game both by our own choice and not by our choice - challenges, quests, dailies, and the MMR system just not working. Killers with powers that make them not pip as easily as others.
Maybe the wincon of the game now, is just to have fun and experiment and do whatever you want. Maybe how you win is YOUR decision now, not some arbitrary concept of kills or escapes. We all know the strongest stuff helps you win almost every time; we all know winstreaks are possible for some Killers and SWF teams but not others. When are we going to admit that trying to win every round all the time is not only not fun for others - it's not even all that fun for ourselves?
It's time to admit it. The concept that MMR gain or gate escapes/number of kills equates to winning is DEAD and needs to stay dead. And good on BHVR for trying to find ways to handle it. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920344#Comment_3920344
You seem to be under the impression that it's impossible to sweat if everything is random. I can honestly say, regardless what is random, if there are rewards to be gained then people can and will sweat.
It's like saying the point the normal mode is to have fun not sweat, it's possible to have fun and sweat like it's possible to have random everything and sweat.
Me for example... If chaos mode has random perks, random maps, random items, even random killers, everything random. I can still sweat as killer and tunnel. I can still sweat as survivor in a swf.
All the chaos mode is, is just a different game mode for people play for a change. Nowhere does it say people shouldn't sweat or the that people should. Your putting your own spin on it and giving the chaos mode a purpose that doesn't exist by suggesting chaos mode is supposed to be "chill". Random perks? Yes. Chill? No. No amount of randomness would change that.
You continue to miss my point and insult me for no reason. You're also stuck on me saying the mode is "chill" but that isn't what I said, I said the devs intended it to be "SUPPOSEDLY chill." Supposedly. Supposedly. Sup. Pos. Id. Ly. You can go back and read it, even. The mode is "supposedly" chill, not "is chill" because we can see people sweat in it. That still does not mean the mode was not intended to be a bit less sweaty by removing meta perks. Everything about it says "you should not take these rounds too seriously because everyone has pretty bad perks in it". Because that's supposed to be a fun change, Fun. Fun. The mode is supposed to just be fun, and guess what?
The point of every single game ever… is to have fun. Not just win.
Have. Fun.
You seem to have forgotten this judging by your arguments. But I play games to have fun, Most people play to have fun. Not just win. Not just stomp the other side. Pretty much everyone plays games to have fun. There is no spin, it's not "my opinion", it's just the truth. Games are intended to be fun first of all, you play a game to have fun and winning is not the only way to do that. These modes prove it.
Sweating is not fun for most people. It's not fun to play against. It's not even that fun to do, it's more like something you feel you HAVE to do to win. The sheer fact you can't control perks and can't have meta in Chaos Shuffle should be ENOUGH to show you are definitely not intended to sweat real hard in it. Because sweating is really hard with no meta, so how do people sweat instead? By bringing OP items, map offerings, addons and Killers of course.
But that isn't the point of a mode called CHAOS shuffle.
What do you play this game for? if it's not to have fun and just to win… why play a game you don't have fun in? -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
I think it's just because it encourages less interaction an a interaction starved game rn. Though the other day I was laughing coz the hag I was facing deliberatly picked up in front of me and I was like "haha you're so silly" then I screamed when I realised she had lightborn and couldn't stop laughing, coz she was so aggressive.
I personally think it could just go back to slowing down blinds instead of denying them, especially with flashbangs fixed.Friend, I get what you're saying here… but did you consider that maybe being blinded a whole bunch of the round isn't a fun interaction for the Killer?
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@BreadSilence said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919645#Comment_3919645
I was agreeing with you but then that last paragraph. Trying to compare Lightborn to OtR and DS is absolutely insane to me because one perk completely negates an entire play style while style also acting as a QoL perk for the person using it, while the other two are at best a mere hinderance to the Killer.
If a killer runs Lightborn then they can't be blinded. Period. But if a survivor runs DS and/or OtR, they can still get tunneled out of the match. The extra endurance hit and 5-second stun does absolutely nothing especially since killers that like to hard tunnel are extremely stubborn anyway.
im not even pro or anti Lightborn, but to casually act like it's at all comparable is pretty insulting to me. Killers can play around DS/OtR. Survivors can't play around Lightborn. Big difference.
Blinding is a nuisance and Survivors never need to go for blinds. Lightborne prevents the cases where Survivors go for blinds on purpose to annoy Killers; the Killer does not know your intentions when you and a friend take in like three flashlights, but they might assume you came to be annoying and throw this perk on. Because oftentimes when there are many flashlights that is what happens if they don't bring it - Survivors harass them all round with flashlights and it is not fun. It's also not even fun for other Survivors not in your SWF in this case, because you and your friend are off chasing me for blinds while they try to do five gens by themselves; how are they gonna feel in this situation? I do not go into my rounds to be forced to slug flashlight users or be blinded to the point I can't pick anyone up and even get one measly hook for my efforts, something every Killer plyer has dealt with or will sooner or later.
Hard Tunnelling a single person is very similar - it's a nuisance, it's annoying, and Killers never actually usually need to hyperfocus one person all round until that person dies. DS and OTR both help with tunnelling in case it does happen so another Survivor can possibly take aggro when a Killer purposefully tunnels a Survivor just to annoy them; I don't know as Survivor if the Killer will tunnel me but I know it's possible, so I bring OTR very often. There are Killers that hard tunnel people out, and if I don't bring OTR then it's me they could target - then I get harassed for a 2 minute round and barely get to play, that isn't fun.
And flashlight blind mobs are very, very similar. I just don't want to be annoyed.
It really isn't that hard to see how these are similar - both handle tactics that are really, really unfun to face when done in sufficient quantity of the actions. -
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917305#Comment_3917305
I'm talking about balance and fairness. Just because you think killers only run lightborn for "convenience" doesn't make it true for everyone. Lightborn is an amazing perk for what it does, and can win you games when you know the opposing team is running flashlights. To claim otherwise is simply just wrong.
Considering you didn't understand my original points and have no intention to, I'm not going to engage in this one sided conversation. Feel free to move the goalposts elsewhere.
Lightborne is fair and balanced.
It's fair because it only counters a niche style of stun that isn't that common but IS often used to be a nuisance to others… kinda like being tunnelled is so you throw on Off The Record to help with it or even stop it entirely.
It's balanced because the only thing it halts is a niche interaction that the Survivor never HAS to do to win the game, sorta like how hex perks and boons can be powerful but are still niche as they require investment and time (Boons) or can be forever lost (Hexes).If the problem you have with Lightborne is that it counters you wanting to blind the Killer with your friends all round so they can't do much, good. That's the point, it stops an obnoxious playstyle. If the problem you have with Lightborne is that it counters your preferred playstyle, sorry, but maybe if BHVR did something else to counter excessive uses of this niche mechanic, then your whole build wouldn't be countered. If the problem you have with Lightborne is that it's a "weak pick" and "a crutch" then why complain? It takes up 1/4 of a Killer's build and that's one less gen hold perk or meta pick while also helping new people get into the game - and we do want new people to stick around and play the game, right?
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It should not be instant, but if it activated after about say… 30 seconds of someone in the gate not leaving, god forbid all of them? Yes. Good idea. And as someone else said, it should be considered a draw for the Killer and anyone who did not leave, to punish poor sportsmanship. It would not reward people doing this too with endgame points for escaping, as they chose to be griefers instead. No rewards for griefing.
But NOT just because all the gens popped. -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920463#Comment_3920463
Trying to stay neutral, regardless of my prefered role, is not "acting pure." I have biases as well, we all do. I just keep them in check and focus on being constructive, like we all should. Stating you claim flashbangs are not worth using is different than what you said and how you carried yourself, which was my point. You were simply a good example that people can hopefully learn from. Just be less antagonistic and stick to opinions rather than instigating toxicity.
Friend I wouldn't bother with them. I've NEVER seen that user comment in good faith, ever. I recommend just blocking them and their heavy bias, in this case towards Survivor.
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@Paige said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920356#Comment_3920356
you do know real flashbangs blind you whether your back is turned, right? as long as youre in the vicinity of it you get stunned/blinded. im not saying that would be balanced for the game tho, i just found it hilarious that youre comparing a video game to real life lol. if the game was anything like real life it would be unplayable. killers would kill on sight rather than even bother with hooks and survivors would find ways over the walls and skip the gens. just silly lol
It literally does not matter what real flashbangs do. I don't care what real flashbangs do.
This is a game, and I care about the game feeling fun and fair for everyone. The mistaken hitbox and the exploit with clipping into the Killer with Flashbang was unfair for Killers as the only counter was slugging or Lightborne. And it's also not something you can do with a real flashbang, unless you secretly are able to slip in and out of the Backrooms IRL or something. As you said, real life accurate flashbangs would simply be unplayable. -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920347#Comment_3920347
As one of "the other three," I entirely disagree with your sentiment. Some games support drop in/out so that you can leave and someone else can take your place. This one does not. When you queue up, you are committing to a single match with 4 other people, and not even for a long duration. The game has a disconnect penalty for a reason, abusing the elimination aspect of its gameplay loop is purposely sabotaging the integrity of the match for the other 4 players. As survivor, I can't force the killer to play chill/farm/goof around when one person goes next, so I am in an objectively worse game due to their abandonment.
And as Killer, I cannot force a Survivor to play. Sorry.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919479#Comment_3919479
Im just saying what they changed. You could be blinded from the side with a flashlight before along with flashbangs againts a wall etc. Now its a rather small cone that resembles the killers fov. Where even if the flashlight is on their face, it will not work unless you are standing infront of the killer, not to the side where u can still see and aim at their face
Yes, as would be logical in real life. When in real life have you ever been blinded from the side of your face or the back of your head by a flashlight?
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@CLHL said:
Last time they moved the safe pallet to connect to the main building window loop, making it stronger, and called it a day. The main building's window still has a jungle gym in front of it, often with a straight window. Then, the killer shack connects to several jungle gyms in line next to each other. The problems with the map are so obvious that it is hard to believe they don't know how to address them.
Honestly? Just making the map a bit bigger but not adding any extra tiles would be a massive help. And lowkey - this map really doesn't need a Shack. At all. The tiles and main are enough.