LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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I refuse to play Nemesis until this is fixed, but are we sure this isn't an issue with the perks and not Nemesis?
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I feel like honestly the only thing I really hate with this patch are the bugs, the lack of a go-next feature for Killers in some unwinnable scenarios, and the colorblindness issues. Otherwise I actually think it's fine.
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@MissiCiv said:
The solution is actually very simple: once the gate is opened, Killers should have the option to abandon the match. They can either choose to keep playing in hopes of a comeback or abandon immediately when the gate opens. Survivors would be counted as having escaped, and the Killer would take a loss. That’s it.
I agree with this with one exception - cheevos and maybe some endgame challenges left over. In such a case, then give the Survivors points towards the achievement? Or retire that cheevo?
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924209#Comment_3924209
Sorry, but my answer IS the correct answer. Sorry to disappoint you, but the Abandon-Feature came because there was an increase in slugging. Both to win the game (because slugging is honestly too strong and too easy to do) AND to be toxic. And the increase must have been significant for the Devs to act.
Yet, there was and is not really a need to do the same for Killer, simply because Killers (unlike Survivors) have ways to get the game to an End. All Gens done? Open the Exit Gates. Exit Gates open, but Survivors not leaving? Either force them out (yes, you might see them pressing a button, get over it) OR run around the Map, collect BPs or whatever. Meanwhile, Survivors cannot do anything when slugged until bleedout, they can only crawl around at the lowest speed possible in the game. For double the time Killers would have to wait for the EGC to finish WITHOUT any possibility to speed it up.
I dont really know what to tell you, but I think it is pretty clear when you put away your "BHVR favors Survivors"-glasses. Killers brought this upon themselves. Maybe not the majority of Killer players. Maybe not even you yourself. But others are the reason for the change.
And you making things up how I might play or not play does not really change that my answer is the correct one. But, just for the record - I almost never teabag and I try to avoid slugging as much as possible, unless it is for pressure because I really, really need it. But you wont see me hovering over you, humping you. You also wont see me waiting at the Exit Gate until you approach to see me leave.
Your tone is very arrogant here. Let's rephrase it so you understand where Killer players are coming from asking for this.
"Sorry to disappoint you, but we released Kaneki strong to counter super strong loopers. Both to win the game (because looping is too strong and too easy to do), AND to be toxic. The increase must have been significant or Devs would not have released another S tier!"
"Slugged? Just take the DC! Killer found hatch first? Just open a gate OR run around the map giving up! Meanwhile Killers cannot do anything with both gates open EXCEPT force people out and run around the map, they can only watch while your team teabags in the gates unless they're one of a few Killers or brought a certain perk. For double the time that Killers have to wait instead of simply DCing like you can when slugged."
"I don't know what to tell you, but it's clear when you put away your 'BHVR favors Killers' glasses. Survivors brought slugging upon themselves. Maybe not most Survivors, maybe not you, but others are why Kaneki is too strong."
"Just for the record I play Trapper and almost never blind, never bring syringes, never SWF, and try to avoid Teabagging in the gates or harassing baby Killers as much as possible, unless I really really need the pressure. You won't see ME noise-spamming to make the Killer watch me leave!"
See how bad this sounds? Either we all get a fair forfeit feature in situations that are unfun and unwinnable, or nobody gets one. I think we ALL should get one. -
… Am I the only person who likes the casualification of this new system, the new colors, and the more beginner-friendly options for newcomers? We DO want new players to come in and stay, right?
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@ImWinston said:
- "Lightborn" is a perk left over from DBD's past, where there were instant-mori, instant brand new part, instant syringe, old DS etc etc... it's a perk that would never be designed in this way today, simply because it cuts out a fundamental part of the gameplay without asking for anything in return. I'm amazed that the devs have left it unchanged all these years.
It's simply a perk used for anti frustration now, like how DS is. No perk would be designed like DS is nowadays either, but back in old ancient DBD times when there was more instant stuff? Yes it was needed. It has now been repurposed into anti-tunnel that can be strong, but is fair. Lightborne's in a similar boat, I think.
Reminder, the Original OoO was free aura all round for the Obsession too. Devs would NEVER design a perk that way either these days. -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923794#Comment_3923794
More like you'll win for 99% of filler matches against lower MMR players, but you can't do anything in real matches against competitive players which is most fun and interesting games
You may have goofy fun like rancor perma-cloak wraith or giga slowdown pig against lower MMR players, or you may play competitively and try your best against 4 man SWFs at high MMR, I don't understand why you ridicule those players like "hate losing ever ever ever" or "just go play mario party", seems like an unneeded temper tantrum towards completely legit playstyle
Oh no! I'll only win MOST of my matches instead of ALL my matches, like in any other game how I will win most not all matches if I play decently well? Say it ain't so! LockerLurk MUST be having a widdle tanty over a valid playstyle! /s
Unnecessary insult was very unnecessary and you know it. Point to where I "had a tantrum" over people wanting to play comp, all I said was comp is kinda pointless to most people who've played long enough. Most people do not play this way, most people play the game more casually, in fact I see more experienced Survivors run goofy things like flashlights or bring zero gen control on "weak Killers" all the time because they simply do not need those things to win. They're confident in their ability 99% of the time to get that 99% of wins and ACCEPT they may lose 1% of the time. They have let go of that need to win 100% of the time, because they have realized that the more you play that comp way, the more you see you either have outgrown the game and need to go Scrim to improve (where they set the rules specifically for a reason), or that this playstyle isn't as fun as you thought so you just return to pubs where most people play. Why play a style that is more stressful and limits options to stuff you may not even enjoy playing, after all? Makes no sense - I'd rather just go play Dredge with my sensible aura build or Ghostface with an endgame build or Pig with a haste build or Chase Hag or my silly lute perk and a flashlight because that is more interesting.
I usually agree with most of your posts here dude, but I just can't agree with this one. I really don't agree that people who are competitive and bring the strongest stuff all the time are "the most fun and interesting games" either because they always all play the same builds, the same strategies, the same way - it's ALWAYS strong meta perks, strong items/addons, strong Killers, strong tactics like genrush and immediate tunnel, all the time 24/7 because these people almost always feel they a) have to win, b) have something to prove. They're actually not interesting or fun at all, they're really boring.Speaking as someone who's played that way both sides plenty often, and got bored of it enough to just go back to less meta builds and weaker Killers, it's really boring to play that way after a while. Winning all the time gets super boring. In fact my last long break from Killer came because I was winning too hard and I got bored, and also was having no fun on Survivor due to the Give-up Epidemic, because the game was pretty unbalanced for Survivors. It's just not a sustainable style that is fun for the majority of the playerbase, know what I do when I see people who want to win this hard?
I forfeit and give them the win. Because they just want to win. That's why they play that way, they just want a win and they don't care how they do it, so they throw on the obvious meta and slap people around all round to feel better about their egos. Like, no thank you, I am totally fine with that 99% of players who would rather try something interesting and unique than just be Blight and Nurse with four slowdown or a SWF with strong meta items and perks that genrushes all the time. Who actually even wants to play against super strong everything forever, this is a multiplayer game NOT a Nintendo Hard ragebait game. This isn't I Wanna Be The Guy, it's Dead by Daylight, and it's balanced FOR that 99%. If I want that experience, I'll go play Hollow Knight or Dark Souls or whatever.Just because you CAN play this way, does not mean you should. Because I mean, what else does everyone complain about here, always the same things - that 1% of super strong SWFs and super strong meta Killers, right? That's what EVERYONE in this community ALWAYS complains about - which leads me to think that 1% is abnormal, an unfun outlier. Maybe you enjoy facing those things, but it's loud and clear to the Devs and anyone with a brain that most of the community absolutely does not and would rather derank or throw when faced with them… because they aren't actually fun or interesting. They are boring.
And the Devs seem to agree, because they're not listening to complaints about this anymore and actively trying to stop MORE of this from happening. They are casualifying this game, and good on the for doing so, because this game should have always been casual. It's the community that has this weird need to make it more competitive when it really isn't.
I point out, not ridicule as you seem to believe, this style of play because it's ridiculous and absurd, on what planet should you ever win 100% of your games in an MMO setting? You can't, you shouldn't, and you don't - and perks and Killers with a HEALTHY design philosophy don't win 100% of the time, which is very intended. The Devs had said Killers should win around 60% of games, and Survivors around 40% - though it's a little closer to 50% in SWF, so even the data and balancing here refutes you. This is clearly not a comp minded game, never was, never should be, and it's not designed to be one. We even tell people to chill out in modes that are designed to be casual - unless you're telling me stuff like 2v8, Lights Out, and Chaos Shuffle is designed to cater to that 1% who just want to win real hard?
Sounds obnoxious on its face to me. I mean, why on earth would anyone want to play with that 1%? Or be that 1%? It's like trying to win 100% of your games in Fortnite.
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923794#Comment_3923794
I can't win against "top tier" swf with perkless trapper therefore m1 killers are unplayable.
You've encapsulated the concept I'm trying to say here exactly. People are just mad they can't slap every Survivor around 100% of the time, or every Killer around 100% of the time. When are you even seeing these top SWFs commonly anyway? I sure don't, I don't think most people do. You simply are not facing Hens and Co. or Ayrun and his SWF every round, can we please all stop it?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924008#Comment_3924008
vast majority of players, especially long term ones, no longer cares about winning that hard
I would really want to see average playtime of currently playing survivors. In DBD many long term players regularly go on breaks, so they might not be majority of players overall.
I would say the mindset I have talked about is mostly for players like 500-2000h playtime, where they got some skill and simply want it to affect results of their games.If you play to win, then it can be very stressful as a killer and let's be honest, lower tier killers are even more stressful for that, if you want to win your games. Simply because your options are limited and chance for comeback when all gens are finished are low without high mobility.
Part of the issue I would say is what many players do (I assume), when it happens that you lose and winning side let's say tried to make it worse for you (bleeding out, waiting in exit gate etc), then next game players tend to go simply tryhard more, so it won't repeat and it's unlikely to stop with just one game.
It's not a good thing to do for sure, because it's not really fault of next players, but it happens a lot.You're right about all of this of course and especially that last bit, I really do think the game feels fine now for both sides as long as you stop caring about winning every single round and just play the game.
That all said? We need a lot more "sore winner" protections and not just for Killer doing things like slugging excessively and tunnelling people out word go. It needs to be addressed, the endgame teabag dances aren't cute, the noise spam isn't cute, the purposeful slug-humping ain't cute and the attempts to make the game misery for people aren't cute.
Though if you're that one Claudette I played with last night who brought us to Azarov's and then is somehow shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that the Killer tunneled me by mistake and then you when they discovered you brought the map offering and clearly not caring if they lost from that, enough to sit and whine about it in the endgame chat, then that is on you.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923777#Comment_3923777
How many of these are new?
A fair amount of them are new or exacerbated from older glitches.
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@XDgamer018 said:
we might need a healing speed cap now. someone got unhooked and just got insta healed…. and there was nothing i as an m1 killer could do about it
I think caps are going to have to be considered on a few things now, haste/hinder is going to become quite out of control now. They really should have capped it or not adjusted those perks at all. I know that means sacrificing some builds, but in situations where it can create some obscenely unfun things? Yeah… should have been capped.
I have been saying to caps heal speeds and gen regression/progression speeds TOO for a while. We might need to start considering it. -
@Suei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923777#Comment_3923777
I'm impressed how you found all of these in a short time period
What can I say? I'm observant and I was playing all day on my day off.
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923777#Comment_3923777
Crap...I'm actually playing chatter tooth and box....rip.
Care to elaborate on problematic box logic? Is the box spawning near pinhead?
See my response to BrokenBones above. Box is spawning in ways that make it harder to find than normal.
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@Mandy said:
There's no plans to create a competitive mode in the game, such as you've described.
The great thing about Comp DbD is that they have their own balancing rules and it all takes place in Custom Matches, we fully support our growing Comp Scene, but that makes no difference on how we balance the game, as we do not balance for the Comp scene, they do a fantastic job of the individual match balancing themselves.
Oh thank the Entity. If anything we need more casual modes and casual-minded changes, not more competition! Glad to see the Devs have their heads on straight about this.
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It's currently glitched, Survs are either getting stuns they shouldn't or not stunning at all and just vaulting into Killers. Never seen it this bad.
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As it turns out, pincer-based chase gameplay isn't all that fun.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923605#Comment_3923605
Just remember the forum rule:
If you're struggling as survivor, it just means you're bad at the game
If you're struggling as killer, it's evidence that the game design is broken and you're super high MMR
Man what happened, not that long ago it was the opposite.
Struggling Survivor: Game is unfair and Killers are too strong and maps aren't well designed and [Insert reason here]
Struggling Killer: Just really bad at the game, playing a weak Killer, or playing poorly, git gud. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923794#Comment_3923794
Well, we have this on both sides. There are plenty of survivors refusing to play soloQ exactly for this reason.
Why bother wasting my time and hoping match making will give me someone decent, when I can simply play SWF with people who know at least basics of the game?It's basically same mindset as people who decide to play only high tier killers.
It's not about never losing. I have lost games with Blight and didn't really mind that, because that simply means there is room to improve for me.
Same for SWF, whenever we managed to lose, it was because we made a mistake, not because we never had chance to win.
With weaker killers and soloQ, you will have games where you lose and you couldn't do anything about it and only thing you can do is accept that and go into the game expecting this outcome.
At least last year or so I play plenty of soloQ and many weaker killers, because I simply don't care anymore. That doesn't mean I can't understand the mind set of people who choose to play mostly SWF/strong killers, because I did it before. No need to be condescending about that.It was never my intent to be condescending to be honest, I get people wanting to play really strong Killers to win more.
I just think the vast majority of players, especially long term ones, no longer cares about winning that hard, so they can make M1s stay perfectly viable. Because they are viable.
Yes, Trapper, Ghostface, Pig, etc. and weaker tier Killers are fine, viable choices that can generally win more than lose in a given round… if played correctly. Therefore, there really isn't a need to just ONLY play the upper tiers and nobody else if you know the game well enough and like weaker Killers' styles, as long as you don't mind the occasional loss that would have happened anyway. Sometimes this game is simply unfair. -
@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923777#Comment_3923777
Any chance for an elaboration on "problematic box spawn logic" for Pinhead?
I've played a few rounds as him lately and in one of my games I felt like the box spawning was really off but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to.
That's exactly what I mean, the spawns seem more random than normal. Harder to triangulate the box.
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923782#Comment_3923782
Unfortunately Skull Merchant is unplayable by design 😂
"Ironic, all those years of hating me, torching me, nerfing me, and now in your darkest hour, when no Killers work, where has that led you? Back to me…" - Adriana Imai probably
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Known old exploit that has long needed to be patched out. Survivors shouldn't be able to hold the game hostage like this just to sell their team out and get a free hatch.
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Jester?
People are disagreeing with you. You're incorrect. Accept this. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
Well, nerfs to STBFL, Sloppy and overall slowdown perks definetly did not help giving players reason to bother with M1 killers.
Right now you have survivors playing with Duty of Care, which is going to hurt M1 killers most, so it's simply better to play killer who doesn't care about it like Blight.
With M1 killers you can still win majority of your games, but once in while you will have a game, where loss will simply feel outside of your control and that just feels bad.
You don't have that with Blight/Nurse etc., if you lose with Blight, you will always find some mistake on your gameplay, which can be fixed with practice.So basically M1s are still viable and the only reason to ever play Blight or Nurse is if you really hate losing EVER EVER EVER that hard and can't stand a bad game now and again. Makes sense, rings true to my experience anyway.
I feel like if you don't ever wanna lose, and don't want to make the game harder for yourself, then just go play Mario Party with bots?
EDIT: Downvoting me does not change the FACT, the demonstrable FACT, that nobody here is getting Sweat SWFs that would be detrimental to these Killers every round, in fact I bet most of us aren't even high MMR, nor are any of us getting less than about a 60% or so Kill Rate even on these Killers. The stats and facts do not lie here. These Killers, for most applications, are just fine. -
@vol4r said:
I play a lot of non S-tier killers - dredge, vecna, legion, unknown, trapper, pig - they are not strong, against good opponents, swfs.
I am so tired of being #########-talked, tbagged about losing. People waiting at the gates to just tbag, click the flashlights and they go hard at endgame chat.
It shocks me that a lot of people are being toxic to those "bad" killers. Do they actually prefer being stomped against nurse, blight, kaneki, spirits and billys? It's the community aswell that makes people go for those strong killers. Which I think are boring, there is no challenge for me, so I avoid those.
You're absolutely right that it's the community that makes playing lower tier Killers unfun and difficult. But then… I got bored of winstreaking with my SWF or with the S tier Killers by slapping strong meta stuff on long ago, now I just play to play. Who cares about winning anymore anyway after a while? I've won enough times. I have nothing to prove. Dead by Daylight isn't a game you win, it's a game you endure and see how well you can do in.
I wish more people would join me on that. Seems a healthier way to view the game… -
Know what?
This response makes me wanna play more Pig. I'm not fantastic at her but I do enjoy her style! -
Hopefully never.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Yeah matchmaking just doesn't work very well or there aren't enough more novice killers. A lot of killer players at this point are veteran. My experience is similar. I only play survivor as solo queue for trophies and challenges, mediocre at looping and rarely escape, and I still get P100 strong Blights, Nurses, Billies etc
I'd say this is accurate. The problem is, new Killers don't want to stay because the game is frustrating, but then new Survivors get these veteran Killers and don't want to stay because the game is frustrating.
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Killers. Survivors. Doesn't matter how skilled you are either side, the matchmaking sucks for everyone.
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Nurse's current power is just inherently an issue because any power that negates looping entirely is an issue. She needs a full on power rework.
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I've seen issues on Pig, Wraith, Oni, Pinhead, Ghostface, Dredge, Myers, Dracula, Nemesis (very bad), Houndmaster, Xenomorph, Sadako, Wesker, and Twins. Some I have seen myself, some I have heard from players of these Killers.
So yes. EVERY Killer, basically, is broken in some way or could glitch at any time. The game is not stable right now.Skull Merchant weirdly enough seems fine.
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I have a list of all the Killers I have found that also are glitched to my knowledge, alongside other general glitches:
Ghostface: Glitched (Minor)- Reveal latency off, causing long "THX" style Reveal noise.
- Reveal mechanic seems bugged in that he's not being revealed when he really should be (not sensitive enough).
- Ghostface is sometimes at distance able to stalk through solid objects.
Dredge: Glitched (Game-Breaking)- Occasionally cannot see locked lockers while teleporting especially during Nightfall.
- Nightfall causing SERIOUS Survivor-sided frame drops and lag.
- Teleporting to a locker or doing anything with a locker may crash the game.
Dracula: Glitched (Major)
- Transforming to another form is extremely laggy.
- Teleporting to vaults as Bat can sometimes crash the game.
- Drac may freeze while transforming.
- Scratchmarks occasionally do not show up for Bat.
- Hellfire is seriously delayed and Hellfire collision is incorrect on short walls.
Pig: Glitched (Major)
- There appears to be a slight delay with setting Reverse Bear Traps and performing Ambushes.
- Pig can occasionally get stuck on objects if she hits them when she finishes her Ambush.
Oni: Glitched (Game-Breaking)
- Demon Dash is still having issues with flicking, this is an old glitch that wasn't fixed.
- M2 attacks may improperly be gaining the effects of certain perks.
- Demon Strike is STILL causing Oni to freeze and may crash the game if performed against collision objects.
Myers: Glitched (Minor)
- Myers can, like Ghostface, occasionally stalk through solid walls at distance.
- Tombstone Piece and Tombstone appear to rarely crash the game during Mori.
Nemesis: Glitched (Game-Breaking)
- Multiple cosmetic and in-game tentacle difficulties.
- NO attacks are acting as anything other than basic damage.
- Worse than usual zombie spawn logic.
- Chests appear to be bugged in that sometimes the Killer Instinct of vaccine use does not properly proc.
- Nemesis can long-press M1 attack, that is, lunge, while carrying a Survivor.
Xenomorph: Glitched (Major)
- M2 Tail attacks seem to "stop short" and glance off Survivors and objects incorrectly (Noticed by MrHeadache).
- Xenomorph tunnel spawn is a little wonky.
- Some tunnels can spawn in such a way as to freeze Xeno when they crawl out of them because the exit is blocked due to collision, a known ongoing glitch.
Sadako: Glitched (Major)
- Like with Xeno tunnels, Sadako TVs can spawn in a way that using them freezes the player.
Wraith: Glitched (Game-Breaking)
- Uncloaking can occasionally cause the game to crash.
Houndmaster: Glitched (Minor)
- Snug can occasionally get stuck on collision again, and may have bad pathing logic. It's possible Knight may have this issue too but I haven't checked, this is just what a Houndmaster Main friend of mine said they saw.
Huntress: Glitched (Major)
- Hatchets are occasionally hitting Survivors and giving the blood splash effect on screen without damaging them, as reported by others on these forums, regardless of range thrown.
Pinhead: Glitched (Major)
- It appears sometimes that the combo Iridescent Lament Configuration + Chatterer's Tooth is not highlighting/hiding the box like it should.
- Problematic Box Spawn logic.
It's very unlikely that these will be fixed soon because Pinhead is no longer in the game, technically. :(
All Killers:
- Hit detection is wonky on all attacks.
- Hooks sometimes spawn in ways that make them unusable.
- Killers with spawned objects have bad spawn logic.
- Some perks improperly activate on M2 attacks.
- Sometimes, M1 and M2 attacks are hitting but not causing any sort of damage to the Survivor, without the Survivor having an Endurance perk.
- Latency issues making "spinning" the Killer harder to avoid regardless of FOV setting.
All Survivors:
- Some Killer effects cause serious latency and framerate issues.
- Pallet stuns appear to be bugged in that they are refusing to work, or work and then cause the player to vault by mistake, often into the Killer.
- Vault logic feels badly off.
- Using lockers may crash the game.
- Orela's footsteps and breathing are too soft.
All players:- Problemetic cosmetic glitches with several characters, Yun-Jin, Yui, Orela, and Wraith all seem to have problems right now.
- Graphical errors from new shaders.
- Ping issues and server latency issues.
- Issues with spawn logic.
- Some maps are spawning broken tiles or extremely strong tiles meant for 2v8.
- Certain icons are badly glitched and show a broken texture image.
And this is just what I have noticed over the past day or two I have been able to play. It's really, really bad right now…
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923478#Comment_3923478
Okay... first off, I do play killer, and I've played against my fair share of bully squads, and flashlights aren't that big a deal. Survivors going for flashlight saves are survivors that are not on gens, and if you successfully defend against a flashlight save, you gain a lot of additional time and momentum by virtue of the flashlight player(s) not committing their time to doing generators.
Yes. Yes it does. Interactions should be fun and interactive for EVERYONE playing. Sitting there being chain blinded or unavoidably blinded is not interactive or fun for the Killer. Is it fun for YOU to be blinded a bunch as Killer?
Tell me, is getting downed fun for survivor? Is getting shot and killed in Counter Strike fun? Is being scored against in Fifa fun? Is missing the ball in Pinball and losing a credit fun? Is walking into a gooma in Super Mario fun? Obviously not... these things are negative experiences that are counterbalance to the positive experience of successfully overcoming these obstacles. The fundamental premise of a game is that it requires the possibility you might lose. If you can't possibly lose, you don't have a game.
If flashlights didn't work the way they do, then survivors instead don't even try to use them, which means you can never get that positive experience of overcoming the obstacles. Playing around flashlight saves and sabo saves is perfectly managable from the killer perspective and successfully handling gives you as the Killer a sizable advantage. It serves as an additional gameplay element that does actually test your skill as killer to read/predict the survivors and effectively punish the entire survivor side for trying (and failing) to save.
How about just removing the blind mechanic and replacing what flashlights, Blast Mine, and flashbang do for something else, like… I dunno… Hindering the Killer? Causing a stun without that awful effect on the screen? Halting Aura Read for a time instead? ANYTHING that feels more fair and interactive than BLINDING THEM AND HALTING THEIR MOVEMENT ENTIRELY?
Why on earth are you advocating for blinds to be removed? Also what are you talking about? Being hindered or stunned is way worse an effect than being blinded with the splash. All you need is a pair of headphones and the blind doesn't even do anything to you if you pay attention. Furthermore your movement isn't halted when blinded currently... it isn't halted at all unless you're stunned carrying a survivor, which has nothing to do with the screen splash effect youre complaining about. You're instead advocating for changing it to ACTUALLY do that instead? Have you make a typo here? Cause this whole section makes 0 sense...
I actually thought you were originally arguing about flashlights only from a Survivor perspective of not being fun for everyone, because this talk of removing blind elements from the game doesn't make sense when Lightborn exists.
Why on earth should blinding be removed from the game for the survivors and killers who can and do play around that risk/reward, for the sake of players who don't? If the killers don't want to deal with this element of the game, they take Lightborn, a perk which actually harms them btw, since Survivors don't engage with this part of the game anymore, and in turn just crank gens... and as Survivor you just don't take a flashlight. To remove blinds as an element for everyone when the players who don't want it can already do so themselves is a bizarre take.
- You're taking this waaaayyyyy too personally dude. Stop. I didn't once accuse you of not playing Killer, I just wanted to cover my bases in case you truly were more of a Survivor Main because some people are. I don't know your play history and frankly don't care about it. Calm down.
- I don't really care to hear "But Survs with flashlights are Survs not on gens" when that's not the argument we're having. The discussion is about whether or not this is a fun interaction mechanic, not if it makes the game easier for Killer or not. There's a lot of other ways Survs can not be on gens that don't involve bullying new players with four flashlights or chain blinding people until they want to DC because they aren't having fun. And Blinding, especially chain blinding, makes people have no fun.
- You need to consider both sides of an asymmetric game, that's why I'm arguing for both sides here. If it's not fun for both sides, it's not a good interaction. I have fun as Survivor interacting with all Killer powers. I have fun as Killer interacting with the ways Survivors loop me around tiles. I do not have fun when my teammates are trying to go for blinds instead of help us get out alive. I do not have fun being stunned multiple times in a row and I extra do not have fun when the entire team clearly came in to start doing that. I've had games where if I had not put on Lightborne, I would not have gotten a single hook because they wanted to swarm me with flashlights that badly. I've also had games where Survivors on my team have DCed because they failed to blind, losing us the round from the word go. Is that fun? Imagine being a baby Killer, would you find that fun? Imagine being a Survivor stuck with a team of these useless Flashlight Freddies, would you find it fun? I wouldn't. I didn't when I was a baby and didn't have Lightborne unlocked, and I don't as Survivor when my tam throws for blind clips to style on the Killer and just makes them slug us all in retribution while I try in vain to do 5 gens by myself.
- Why on earth would I argue about a mechanic from only one side of the game, that being Survivors? Both sides are interacting with blinds. I don't think it's fun for either side and judging by the reaction here, most agree with me. HOW did you read my post and decide I was ONLY talking about Survivor side here? I literally asked if it was fun for everyone; "everyone" includes Killers. There are five players in a DBD round, friend.
- Saying my argument is "a bizarre take" and "must be a typo because it makes zero sense" is a bad faith argument and instantly disqualifies you from any further consideration. Insulting me about how well I may or may not do in avoiding blinds is also disingenuous and has no bearing here - while it's true that blinds are usually easy to avoid, that doesn't mean you just get to assume someone pointing out the issues with this mechanic being outdated can't avoid them at all… it's another way to discredit people with the "But You're Unskilled So There!" fallacy everyone likes to drop in this community when they're losing arguments.
- Blinds are definitely not fun for everyone. Some people are even photosensitive to them. I'm advocating their removal because they are an unfun, outdated mechanic and flashlights (along with Blinds in general) could be way more fun if they did something else besides JUST a reflavored stun you can chain-stun with. I am not a fan of stunlock mechanics or mechanics that remove player agency, nobody should be. I challenge you to find one person who has ever played Killer that thinks blinding is a fun mechanic, especially after the Devs JUST fixed broken blind boxes on Flashbangs.
You're no longer worth engaging with, I thought you wanted to have an open discussion about this. but No, instead, you just want to turn this into another us vs. them about how everyone should suck it up and endure unfun, uninteractive outdated mechanics just because YOU find them fun for Survivor.
A shame, I really thought you had something interesting to say and were more well rounded than this.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920252#Comment_3920252
Agreed. I let the person go next if that's what they want, and get the game over quicker. It's toxic to keep someone in the game by slugging them; I'm not stooping to their level.
This, Sorry but if they really want out, I'll let them out and just play a bit nicer with the other three that do want to stay in the game, even knowing they will probably lose.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921717#Comment_3921717
survivor literally controls the direction of the chase, only brutal zoning Blight or Kaneki can truly shift the chase direction r chase being at edge tile, which is still a 50/50 for killer to successfully redirect it, literally lol.
I thought this would become basic knowledge by now, but i guess it isn't.
And survivors can literally zone killer by forcing a down away from a very beneficial hook from the killer, another thing that should be the most basic knowledge, but looks like it isn't.
Both sides can mindgame each other and do stuff with Pallets to zone each other. That's zoning. Or is forcing a bad vault or dropping pallets no longer key aspects of the game?
Your PFP is the Oni, I assume you're an Oni Main, if so you already know Oni is an M1 that can zone with his dash to a point. You should be first to know that a Killer, even an M1 Killer, can absolutely direct the chase's direction and zone without an M2. Hell, I do it all the time as Dredge with my Remnant, I've even done it with Ghostface crouch games using Leather Sheath and Pig ambushes. This is because M1 Bread and butter chase requires you to know how to do things like deny pallets, force bad vaults, mindgame Survivors, and zone them into areas that lack pallets or tools to use. Then there's a litany of perks that also help you direct, alter, or change chase such as Bamboozle, the pallet/vault block perks, and perks that auto-break pallets for you.Are you telling me you seriously believe Killers have no way to direct or zone a chase at all unless they're Blight or Kaneki? Maybe if you're super high level, but for everyone else? Just not true at all.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921680#Comment_3921680
and atleast have the anticamp range be the entire terror radius?
I wouldnt mind it being buffed to 24 meters. I think 32 is too much.
Honestly, terror/lullaby radius makes sense. Killers with longer TRs specifically have those for their ability to put out immediate pressure at longer distances. If a killer can be lethal at range, the anti-camp should reflect that. TR wouldn't be perfect for it, since you'd have to sidestep stuff like undetectable, but using a killer's terror/lullaby radius as the basis for their anti-camp radius would make a lot of sense.
I know we don't get along much Firellius and don't agree on hardly anything, but I actually agree with this. My only issue is, how would we control Killers like Nurse or Ghoul who can instantly zoop to hooks?
RE: Undetectable - just leave it at the base 16 m for Undetectable. That way you don't get Killers like Wraith or Ghostface or Chucky proxy camping from stealth, but those Killers ALSO are still able to ambush or stalk unhookers properly around hooks as clearly intended by parts of their kit. I mean it's obvious that you're meant to pressure unhooks a bit as Killers like these - just not camp - Ghostface being revealed by hooked Survivors proves this, and it's the sole reason I think it shouldn't be changed unlike what others may say.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914637#Comment_3914637
This is further elaborating on a point already made clear: players like you, whether justifying OR engaging in this behavior, are the cause for the game's decline. Giving a person 'more' only helps if they will actually take advantage of it. Otherwise, it's just giving a man a fish but not teaching him to feed himself. Survivors giving up was ALWAYS a problem, just like how they used to go out of their way to make playing the game unpleasant for KILLERS earlier in the game's history.
At some point you are going to have to understand that KILLERS CAN'T STOP YOU from sabotaging your team. If they leave you on the floor to get picked up? It's slugging. If you have to down a survivor because they won't get out of your way as soon as they get unhooked AND don't run away after they lose the endurance? Then you're "tunneling", even if you didn't WANT to target them. Anything a killer COULD do to at least buy other survivors time is already demonized for one reason or another despite the fact survivors are often CHOOSING to get themselves killed and lose the game.
Remember how you said "the only thing they gave solo queue was those icons"? That was what the community ASKED FOR, claiming it was discord players not needing information perks that made solo queue terrible. Yet every time I look at the icons, all I see is people REFUSING to repair a single generator. I am SEEING as a survivor that other survivors are the problem, and blaming it on killers is just so you all don't have to admit survivors are the MOST toxic side of dbd. It's to the extent they can't even get along WITH EACH OTHER when that is the entire POINT of the game. I was a killer main then the same reason I gave up on being one now- survivors are so apathetic to the fun of others, that it's going to ruin people's perception of the game overall.
Consider: why shouldn't a killer slug or tunnel if the game is going to be a foregone conclusion? When EVERY MATCH has someone intentionally let themselves die early, dooming the team to a loss, why pretend like the game isn't already over? Why pretend like it isn't going to happen again when it's happened every game you've played for the last year?
Why should I care about your fun, when your own team mate is the reason you won't have any- and you'll blame me for it anyway?
It used to just be "bully squads". Now? Now everyone ELSE is also having to deal with others making the game horrible to play. It's not a new problem, you're just unable to ignore it now.
Frankly this is, once again, better than could have put it EVER and exactly why I don't play mich Survivor anymore except when my friends are on. Because other Survivors make Survivor less fun. The tunnelling camping slugging WHATEVER I am used to, that's part of the game, that's always going to be there.
it's when my teammates decide to crap on all of us and make the game harder for everyone by giving up. It's almost griefing at this point, and it makes ME want to also give up.You also make a good point Weaver that half the time, stuff that players directly asked for did nothing to actually improve Survivor side on SoloQ. Icons? Did not improve game quality but were very nice and needed, proving that no, it's not the disconnect between comms or no comms that makes Survivor games bad. It's other Survivors.
Ditto the AFC - another thing asked for, BEGGED for, much needed and added… but now Killers just play a dumb dance around it because defending hooks is much harder, or use it to stand near the hook and let Survs off so they don't self-end early or get ignored by their teammates playing Gens B4 Friends. Both of which massively ruin the game for Survivors who just didn't want to be face camped.
I have zero doubts the coming anti tunnel and anti slug will do the very same thing, sorely disappointing Survivors by not actually solving things they BELIEVE tunnelling and slugging to be, only fixing the REAL issue of hard tunnelling or 4-man-down slugging to bleedout, and then these players will be right back here whining aboth how Killers are the problem and not enough is being done.
When, when, WHEN are any of us actually going to realize that sometimes… just sometimes, the problematic people are Survivor players and the Killer is just innocently playing the damn game? -
@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923466#Comment_3923466
If you don't do any daily you will get 83.5 tiers of the rift done. This is only if the 2v8 and anniversary event provide no fragments though. If they provide at least 10 levels worth of fragments it will be pretty easy to finish with no dailies
That is true, and it looks like BHVR is just gonna throw modes and Fragment Frenzies at us a whole lot of the time anyway, so… maybe it won't be so bad?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921629#Comment_3921629
I mean... to answer each of those points.
But is blinding a fun interaction for everyone?
Blinding isn't fun for everyone, but does it need to be? There are certainly plenty of people who do have fun trying to blind the killer, which Lightborn completely prevents currently. This change actually allows them to go for blinds, and if they have a perk for it, still get value.
There are also challenges to blind the killer while carrying a survivor, which a lot of people get annoyed at because blinding the killer is hard, especially with Lightborn being used by the killers not so good at dodging torches. The killer having Lightborn makes challenges like this actually easier.
What about chain blinding?
What about it? Chain blinding doesn't change... but a killer walking into chain blinds is fishy cause you can simply look down to avoid it. Serves as an extra clue they might have Lightborn if nothing else.
Is it maybe time to consider this mechanic differently again?
You mean new mechanic as in an entirely new effect for Lightborn? I mean maybe, but that would annoy a lot of people who like Lightborn, and as I say it's widely regarded as not a good perk that weakens your build overall… so given in its niche its basically the strongest it can be, satisfying that niche better is almost impossible.
This is the best solution I've come up with in nearly 2 years over numerous Lightborn discussions and debates. Happy to hear a better solution, but most solutions I've seen to date make Lightborn worse than it already is and/or have no point running it... and ofc don't address the problem that this perk is anti-synergistic with related perks due to its hard counter nature.
So... I certainly have no idea, but the floor is open if you've got a better idea.
Blinding isn't fun for everyone, but does it need to be?
Yes. Yes it does. Interactions should be fun and interactive for EVERYONE playing. Sitting there being chain blinded or unavoidably blinded is not interactive or fun for the Killer. Is it fun for YOU to be blinded a bunch as Killer? If you don't play Killer, let's talk from Survivor side - Being stunned and staggered by say… Kaneki's Ghoul Bite is technically an interaction between Killer and Survivor, does that feel fun? It sure doesn't for me! Same idea. It removes agency in a way that feels hard to or even impossible to avoid in some situations… just like some cases of blinding do for Killer. Not fun, not a well designed interaction, needs looking at.
There are blind challenges
Not anymore there's not! :D Quest system changed that. You never need to worry about having to do challenges like these anymore because they no longer exist, so there's now no excuse for doing this to a Killer unless you're going for that Champion of Light cheevo or an old Tome challenge! Hooray! One less nuisance challenge wasting everyone's time! Now the only reason to do blinds is for bonus points, as should have always been intended - no more teammates throwing for blinds and no more nuisance blinds period. :) Much more manageable for everyone.
Killers walk into chain blinds
No Killer in the entire Fog willingly wants to get blinded, stunned, chain blinded, or flashlight stunned into a blind. Killers do not enjoy having agency taken away for your blind challenge. Lightborne is there to prevent these sorts of unfun scenarios - and yes, for the Killer, chain blinds and chain stuns aren't fun because they eliminate player agency, as we have established.
An entirely new effect for Lightborne?
How about just removing the blind mechanic and replacing what flashlights, Blast Mine, and flashbang do for something else, like… I dunno… Hindering the Killer? Causing a stun without that awful effect on the screen? Halting Aura Read for a time instead? ANYTHING that feels more fair and interactive than BLINDING THEM AND HALTING THEIR MOVEMENT ENTIRELY?
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@Lightningheart said:
Making it harder for a killer to hook you will just result in a killer wanting to slug even more. Then you'll be here complaining about slugging too. This game is meant to be a 4v1 and not a 1v1. If everything was balanced around a 1v1, how would killers ever possibly win?
That's the thing. There's unfortunately a small but vocal subsection of players in this community, on both sides, that NEVER want the other side to win. Like at all. Ever.
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@Cadpig said:
The quest system is amazing, the problem is the changes to Rift Fragments.
When I first saw that you needed 100 Fragments for a Tier now instead of 10, I was a little put off, but I figured the quests were maybe going to reward so much more that it would make up for it (the first game I played completed a ton of quests and gave me a false impression).
As it is, with 100 Fragments needed per Tier, the speed is so slow it's completely demoralizing.I agree, I like this quest system a LOT more than the old one. The problem is how damn stingy the rift fragments are, it feels like a punishment for NOT playing which is so very much NOT what anyone asked for and looks really really exploitative.
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MintSkull did a video on this recently that does in fact prove you actually gain more rift fragments FASTER than before, with less difficult and let's face it, less ANNOYING challenges. Hence why they're called quests now.
He only had an issue with the fact you basically have to do Dailies to get to the end of a Rift now, and I agree. He also had issue with the fact that if you only like to play one of the sides, you have to grind harder or play the side you don't like, which I also think is pretty unfair.
Those are what ruins this for me, I otherwise like this more casually-minded rift progression system with simple tasks that help you slam through the rift, giving you some sort of progress marker even if you lose the round. In fact, you can now set "just grinding the rift" as a personal wincon if you want, encouraging less sweat and more chill games. I think we could all use some more chill games about now. That said? Yeah these dailies gotta go or be more interesting than this. -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922957#Comment_3922957
pig is not an m2 killer you would be absolutely crazy to suggest it is.
You can make the argument for twins for sure.
So again, twins pig wraith.
Saw a ghostface as well later in the night.
One more time, pig is not an m2 killer.I would say Pig's a weird edge case. She has an M2 but it's weak, functioning as just another specialty M1. She has a delayed technical M2 as well, so really she has two M2s - her traps and her ambush.
I say this as someone who has started enjoying her recently, and I'm sure there's a few Pig Mains here that agree with me. The Pig is a weird hybrid, not quite M2 but not quite M1. I would personally consider her TECHNICALLY M2. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922722#Comment_3922722
I wonder how it feels like for controllers, which are most likely the main reason for this change.
M&K simply don't need it even close being this sensitive, but controllers were unlikely to manage with original sensitivity. I doubt they need it this much tho.I can answer because I have been trying to learn Oni on controller.
Bad. It feels bad. I had a better time with the old version. :( -
Oni hardcore nerfed by Flick removal. :(
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… Well I like them, I think they're cute. :(
I am super excited for the new collections coming, they look AMAZING. Also, we have Birbface.
COME ON, BIRBFACE. You know that's funny as hell, he's got a beak! -
I also like the changes but I agree, there need to be colorblind friendly options here. It's absurd to change it without that option.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
Maybe, but they'll just change them to Green and Blue herbs.
Damn it this was funny.
I don't think the Herbs are returning, we have Fog Crystals instead. I'm not enthused with that tbh, they weren't very fun to face as Killer last time. And both Killers added this time are M1s that build their power up.
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@Cetren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922802#Comment_3922802
This is exactly it. If dbd players would learn to both lose but especially WIN gracefully (crazy that this is the problem) people would be a lot more comfortable queuing up with things that are weaker or that they're more unfamiliar with. There are so unbelievably many sore winners, it really sucks the joy out of just playing something unorthodox or chill when you're going to harassed about how bad you are for it.
I agree, this is a real problem and IMHO a form of griefing that BHVR has gotta do something about. I totally gave up learning Knight, Oni, AND Xenomorph because of this, and none of those are all that weak. It just feels really, really bad to try your best, obviously trying to learn not even to win, and then end up getting slapped around and having your loss rubbed in your face by people who are more interested in humiliating you than playing the game because they think "Killers deserve it for being OP". But there's a whole half of the roster that is balanced to not OP. We call them "weak Killers".
That's the only real issue with Killer as a whole left to resolve IMHO - how do we solve Sore Winner Survivors who run in, slam all the gens in five seconds while you're learning a Killer, harass you as a baby on that Killer all round, and then teabag at the exit gate like they earned something trying to force you to hit them out? Why did we all decide it's the Killer's job to force Survivors out but Survivors don't have to endure the similar embarrassment of being humped on the ground for four minutes because they lost? Because Killers are stronger? That doesn't track, being humiliated and griefed still hurts regardless.
Why do Survivors get to gracefully concede if they lost, but not Killers? It really kills the mood. -
So it's slower in pace, but not slower in actual gain. Fascinating!
… Maybe this is BHVR's way of telling us all to touch grass? XD -
Well I like it; I'm a casual player and the idea of a unified Challenges section appeals to me more than hyperspecific tome challenges that only work in certain modes or with certain perks do. I'm actually feeling more relaxed even if I lose (because I get something from it) and am more interested in playing now than ever that the challenges are this easy and I don't need to work through a network of sometimes blocked off stuff to get to the end. So this change was a hit for me!
There's also a pretty damn cool Dredge skin this rift and I like flowercore aesthetic, so I have no issues with any of the super cute stuff this rift. Badges and banners included. They're all cute and I think that's fine. :)
But I do miss the tomes unlocking stuff… I just hope they find a nice compromise for those who enjoyed that. I'm more annoyed the rarity color changes didn't take colorblind players into account; I could take or leave this… -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923014#Comment_3923014
Why even play the game if you’re rating every game 1 star? It can’t be that awful of an experience if you’re still playing. Lol
'cause haha funnie. c:
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I think it's fine, it just takes some getting used to. MY concern is that colorblind players won't be able to distinguish all those blues and purples necessarily.
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I never used it, it had no point so why keep it around? I say go for it and remove the code, they have more direct lines of communication with the community anyway.