LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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I'm on the third page about halfway through - it's definitely faster than the old system. But I'm also not playing every single day, I'd probably be further along if so.
I tend to grind out Survivor stuff to finish them off, then play Killer the rest of the month fairly casually, and that's how I've been playing here. Been stacking old Tome stuff I didn't bother to finish on top of it for more BP gain as well. I really actually like to play for the challenges and Quests, it's a better healthier wincon to me than just playing to win all the time.
I like this new system but I strongly dislike how hard it will be for super casuals and newcomers to catch up… it feels like you need to play a lot consistently to do well.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926372#Comment_3926372
The street cred thing is real. What helped me was playing anonymously. I don't feel I have anything to prove, and I can intentionally play suboptimally if I wanted to for gags and silliness without feeling that I could have had a better skill rep for going all in or something. It's a flawed way of thinking (street cred required), but thats just human nature.
And yet the downvote brigade continues despite me speaking actual truth here. The community is so addicted to rage and wins, they have forgotten how to enjoy the game.
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Frankly I am just sick of my teammates deciding the Killer is playing too hard for their liking even when they play fair, and leaving the rest of us to languish at 4 gens and 1/12 hooks while the Killer snowballs us to oblivion.
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@Andouille said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926127#Comment_3926127
Most issues have been fixed for killers. The low tier killers need some buffs to be able to compete and some maps (Autoheaven) needs a loop nerf but honestly it has never been as easy to play killer.
From tier S to tier B all killers can win 70% of the time without camping or tunneling.Most killer mains are still doing it cause they have never learnt to play properly, they have no idea how to have map control, apply/spread pressure.
Worst, many killer players still hard tunnel with S-Tier killers… High MMR killers abuse those "strategies" (that are not strategies at all but only exploiting a game flaw to get ez wins) making all trials boring to play for survivors.
I play both sides and high MMR survivor gameplay is extremely boring, stale and frustrating. However playing killers at high MMR is mostly rewarding and i have to play with my brain to get the win, it is really entertaining, especially with killers like Sadako.
Camping and tunneling must be HEAVILY punished with something like : if the killer is camping, gens gets done 3x faster If a survivor is tunneled with 2+ gens left, all generators get halfway done automatically etc…There is no reason for killer players to cmp or tunnel anymore, defending 3 gens right at the start is extremely strong now that mopst loops have been nerfed.
This is all very true and needs to happen. If it really is the case that C and D tiers must resort to these tactics, and are struggling without them, the Devs can buff them later so they aren't languishing. But they have to prevent middling and strong Killers from abusing them first before they do something to help the weaker ones. They can't improve the game without removing things that ruin it and are acting as roadblocks to improvement, y'all.
Even playing as some of the weakest Killers in my Roster, I don't need to camp, tunnel, or slug super hard from the word go. I don't need to tunnel someone out first thing to win as Pig, I don't need to hard camp a hook as Ghostface, and I don't need to slug people in the basement as Trapper. Nobody ever needs to do this. Now, pressuring with light cases of these? Perhaps. Leaving a down for a bit, chasing a weak link, or protecting a contested hook to get the unhooker? Sure. But not hardcore tunnels, camps, and slugs. Doing that loses you games as Killers like these.
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That's pretty funny and reminds me how some people see a bamboo that has been cut in the icon for one of Sadako's perks instead of her eye.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926168#Comment_3926168
Your getting easy matches. Against a good team most m1s are fodder.
I'm sorry and not to be rude, but do you know what my MMR is for sure when you make a claim like this? I am asking seriously, how do you know I "get easy matches"? Are you me in my games? Do you have my data somehow? I don't because I don't care to track my stats, so if you have evidence this is true about my rounds, I would love to see it.
I'm playing balanced builds and playing normally with no issue. Still hitting the 60% target rate on these "weak Killers", I play nobody above a B tier except Dracula who I am still learning and admittedly, not very good at yet. I am playing in the Killers' niche is why, not trying to force weak Killers to be the Nurse or the Nurse to be Trapper. I do not see strong SWFs often because I don't go looking for them. I've even handed some pretty well coordinated teams their asses on silver platters as some of these Killers, and been complemented for how well I play doing it. I'm completely happy in this zone, so why does Killers I enjoy being weak matter?
Where exactly are these "strong Teams" that dominate everyone anyway, how often is anyone really getting them regardless of skill level? How common are they really? I'm an average player that plays casually and is having fun at the game doing it - average players do not usually run into SWF Team Six, and thank god, because they're like four slowdown Blight. Not fun. Oh sure, I get one every once in a while, but as an average player playing an average game, I'm just not seeing them every round. Nor do I want to. I played that game on every single Killer I do play, except Drac, and decided that wasn't for me so I'm way more casual now. Guess what? I still hit about a 60% winrate, have fun, get my BP, and successfully do just fine in DBD, so… why would my caliber of opponents matter? I'm not playing to improve and win, I'm playing to play the game because the game is fun. Nobody is out here facing Hens every round or even every other round, and it's absurd to say otherwise.
Why? Do you wanna face these guys every round? Why are you playing if not for fun, do you have something to prove by beating the strongest possible foes? You do know eventually you will start to consistently meet your match as every Killer, right?I have played this game since 2017. I just can't be bothered to try and winstreak, compete, or play super seriously anymore. I got BORED of playing S tiers trying to win super hard every round, so I just… stopped doing it. I know I don't have to win to have fun. I'm skilled enough, I've found Killers I like I do well consistently with, and am happy.
So why does strength matter again, exactly? -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923794#Comment_3923794
Well, we have this on both sides. There are plenty of survivors refusing to play soloQ exactly for this reason.
Why bother wasting my time and hoping match making will give me someone decent, when I can simply play SWF with people who know at least basics of the game?It's basically same mindset as people who decide to play only high tier killers.
It's not about never losing. I have lost games with Blight and didn't really mind that, because that simply means there is room to improve for me.
Same for SWF, whenever we managed to lose, it was because we made a mistake, not because we never had chance to win.
With weaker killers and soloQ, you will have games where you lose and you couldn't do anything about it and only thing you can do is accept that and go into the game expecting this outcome.
At least last year or so I play plenty of soloQ and many weaker killers, because I simply don't care anymore. That doesn't mean I can't understand the mind set of people who choose to play mostly SWF/strong killers, because I did it before. No need to be condescending about that.So the fundamental problem is a) the game is frustrating sorta like Rage Game or Nintendo Hard game, and b) people are scared to lose because then they lose "street cred".
So like every multiplayer game from the dawn of time ever.
I think if you don't want to play hard, don't pick a weaker Killer. If you don't wanna actually improve at the macro game and just wanna win, pick a strong Killer you can spam a power with. If you're insecure when you lose, don't play a weak Killer.
That explains a lot about the community for sure - a lot of us are insecure in our own abilities and fill that void with a need to win, complaining whenever we don't or whenever we think the game is too unfair, both sides. That can't be healthy. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926131#Comment_3926131
I am a man of the old faith. I played back when killing survivors was not considered something shameful. In modern DBD, I continue to play the way the game was originally intended. Killing survivors. I am not tired of playing like that even in 2025.
For reference, the very first killer ranking system for increasing the rank consisted of 2.5 kills. You literally needed 1 hook and 2 dead survivors to increase the rank. While the surviving side gained rank with 10,000 blood points. Ranked system of late 2017 early 2018.
I am not so cruel to people as to seriously say that buying Chucky (4.99€), Alien (11.99€) or Sadako (7.99€) will fill people's games with fun. I'll tell them honestly that without SWF and strong killers there's nothing to do in DBD. I'll even dissuade survivors from playing solo because this cactus isn't worth it. There are more pleasant things in the world.
It's my personal problem that I want to tryhard on Doctor, buggy Houndmaster and Dredge. Instead of learning to play Blight or Hillbilly like a normal person to ensure pleasant games in DBD. It's my problem that I go into solo survival instead of calling survivors who understand how to play the game every time.
The fact that we are all cursed to play DBD for various reasons does not mean that I want to doom other people to such a fate. We cannot be saved because we are part of the ship, part of the team...
If you want to change something in DBD, you should focus on the new generation of killers (FNAF). Engage in educating the younger generation, and not try to convert a mossy old killer like me.
That's all well and good but why not teach people to enjoy weaker Killers if they try them and find out they a) like it, b) are fine with them just as they are? Nobody is out here shaming Killers for Killing, least of all me. All I said is that number of kills really doesn't matter and why should it? It's just a game, did you kill someone? If so congrats, you're a good Killer, you won one of the 4 battles in the round. You're not facing a team, you're facing four individuals working as a team, so each individual is a possible battle to win or lose. This means that one kill is just that: one win. You only therefore "lose" as Killer if you 0k; it also means you can win up to four times a round. So really, it's just a question of how many wins you can get in a given round, not whether you most/all of everyone or not. A different philosophy, but not a "wrong way" to play DBD!
@danielmaster87 said:
M1 killers aren't viable. You just play them to lose.
Not viable at high MMR sure, but how many of us know for sure we're up there, at that level? There's also, IDK if you noticed, not a lot of Killers that do that well - even new ones - when teams are highly coordinated and very good. In fact I'd say only S and about half the A tiers stand a chance, IF you are a very skilled player, while the rest are playing catchup or a different game entirely.
Basically, I see it this way: One half of the game is playing with the gods and shooting for the moon to different degrees, and the other half is just playing the game to play it and having fun. You can choose whichever path you want - winstreaking or fun, they are two different paths - but both are fine, and both are viable for their niches. Both are OK ways to play the game. If a Killer serves a given niche and most people are satisfied with them in that niche, what is the problem if maybe they lose a bit more than a super strong one? No Killer is out here getting less than a 50-60% of their wins anyway, so what's the problem? They're still winning, they just have to work harder at it and take more game skill to win with. They're still playing the game, being consistent, serving their niche… and thus viable. They just aren't going to work at high levels of play; if you test a fish based on its ability to climb a tree it'll think it's stupid its whole life. Similarly if you try to put say, Legion up against a team that is better equipped for Nurse, you're going to assume Legion is a terribly designed, bad Killer that can't win, but that's not true. In their given niche - antihealing - the Legion can do just fine. This is why tierlists don't work well for DBD - you have two different classes of Killer and they are meant for two different types of game and the clash happens when the two halves cross, but that doesn't make the Killers in question good or bad or anything else. They just are.
Really, I am truly more impressed with someone who consistently does well as Pig than someone who is mediocre at Blight, anyway. Because I know the Pig player didn't just tunnel and spam her power, she had to learn how to actually mindgame and play well and spread pressure - and knows her character's limitations and is cool with them. Meanwhile sure, the mediocre Blight player is chasing the win dragon, looking to best everyone, and may win because Blight snowballs and tunnels well, but is that skill? Are they LilithOmen? No, they're fail-safing on a strong power. They don't have to necessarily think as hard. Just winning a bunch really easily means fundamentally nothing; the more wins you get in succession the less individual wins seem to matter. I am more impressed when a player has to WORK HARD for a win and does win, rather than winning being a foregone conclusion due to strength. Everyone loves an underdog.
That's not to say Pig is some grand big brain Killer or Blight takes no skill, neither of those are true obviously. But it's easier to crutch on a strong Killer played badly than a weak Killer played well. Strong powered Killers are like the Second Chance perks Survivors have - you win more with them yes, but you also never really learn basic counterplay because mistakes are easily forgiven when you use them repeatedly. It can make you a lazier and less skilled Killer over time if you only play them versus someone who has to WORK for every down.
Like I said, two kinds of players. The one who believes slow and steady can win the race and might lose a bit more but ultimately can get consistent for their niche just fine, or the one who wants results and may win a lot at first but ends up never learning counterstrategies and may struggle later as they ONLY find the strongest opponents all the time. -
Actually, @JusticeForFrankStone, that could be a cool way to reverse Singularity's mechanic and Ghostface's Reveal mechanic. Maybe he begins demanifested and Undetectable like Sadako, and as you set up and look through cameras, he gets Revealed the way Ghostface does.
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I forgot to add because I for some reason cannot edit and save my post - for the Event Quests that occur in Events that use Trinkets, the Quests could offer a set number of those, from 25-200 of them depending, just like before. These would still be used in the event store to buy special items and outfits, as before.
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You can't just go in expecting it to stay horror. It's not going to.
You need to fundamentally enjoy the game for what it is, or you won't have fun. If you want a unique asymmetric horror themed tag game that is easy to learn but difficult to master with a lot of interesting and different playstyles, a vibrant community, and some kinda fun silly interactions? Then yes, play this game. If you want to play as iconic horror villains and get the chance to be a Final Survivor sometimes? Then yes, play this game.
If you want to win a bunch or actually get scared, keep looking. -
I wait every day for the chance to play as Ghostface in a Scream or big city inspired map.
Please let me lurk in houses and back alleys, BHVR… -
@Callahan9116 said:
Basically playing m1 killers is so bad now. Buff stbfl and pwyf. There are a ton of perks that m1 need to be viable.
I'm running the stuff I normally do and doing fine… what do you mean?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924273#Comment_3924273
The difference is DS can only be used once, is only designed for anti tunnel, deactivates if you do literally anything to progress the game, can be stalled out via slugging, and deactivates in endgame. Lightborn is permanent, prevents an entire mechanic, and is run solely out of spite.
OoO was only changed because of Midwich. I guarantee if we never got that map, it would still be the way it used to be. You're also forgetting that the killer saw the OoO aura as well... another risk/reward perk.
Ah, sorry, didn't see your post here!
DS is usable once per round only because in the past, it was abused when it was unlimited - there was no counter except "slug" for Killers, and that wasn't fun, so it changed. Lightborne has a counter - don't use your flashlight, stun another way. They aren't even close to the same problem here. You never need to blind to stun a Killer, and you never need to use a flashlight to win a round. Flashlights are supposed to be optional. Picking up Survivors is not supposed to be optional.
I promise you, I am not running Lightborne out of spite. I'm running it because I am Autistic and thus very sensitive to certain light patterns; the blind mechanic can hurt my eyes if done repeatedly, so I run Lightborne to prevent that. I'm sure I'm not the only person running it for sensory reasons. Other people run it because they simply don't want to deal with a mechanic they find unfun. As Survivor, I throw on stuff like the hatch offerings for much the same reason - I don't want to have to hunt for the hatch, I find that mechanic unfun.
OoO was a bad perk design, having infinite aura on the Killer is not good perk desgn. It would be horrendous enough as Killer, it's still not good as Survivor because comms exist. You're not intended to know where the Killer is at all times; some Killers are even based around not knowing where they might be. Nothing to do with Midwich.
I think you may be an older player who misses the days when Survivor was truly unbalanced and too strong. Times have changed. It's time to adapt now. The Devs are likely not returning the perks to these forms or removing a perk that frankly, is just used as antibully or antinuisance, and eliminates a slot for frustrating perks like Pain Res or Pentimento anyway.
As per editing my posts, I edit them to add things, change typos, or improve clarity so as not to spam the forums with multiple responses. I also edit it to re-write phrases that came off as too harsh, so as not to start further arguments. There's nothing insidious about editing a post to fix it and make it more server-friendly, or add ideas to it! -
Serious question: Are Killers EVER allowed to bring anything to counter items, in your eyes? Or is doing so "boring and sweaty"?
If so… why? Survivors get to counter Killer powers, why can't Killers have options to counter the equivalent of "powers" for Survivors in the form of items? Everything in the game is supposed to have a counter; Franklin's and Lightborne exist to do that. So do Weave Attunement and Two Can Play sort of. All three of them take up a perk slot that could have been better used on something like a chase perk or gen perk; the Killer is not taking perks like these to ruin your game or win harder, but to counter items. These are the ONLY four Perks that do something like this in the Game, and they aren't exactly common. They're there for less skilled Killers to take if they want them to help handle things like excessive blinds, medkits, etc. or to use as an optional perk to handle teams that focus on using strong items. It is okay to have things that counter mechanics, and item use is a mechanic.So what, exactly, is the issue here? It's just game balance…
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926157#Comment_3926157
they could figure it out, and I GUARENTEE they already have.
he was meant to be a killer. so they already got it figured out.
I guess, why didn't they put him in the game as one and made him a skin instead?
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The Fake Banette is also a Chucky Main, and a fairly casual one. He has some information on his channel.
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This does sound fun, I like the idea of the drone shooting darts and giving her more things her drones can do.
I do think this will make her more fun in chase, but we don't need more Killers that get countered by things like lockers, collision objects, etc.
What is the point of the Stealth Drones now? They don't seem to be useful for monitoring AND she still has to set them up, which is a bad design concept these days in such a quickly paced game. There's a reason we don't do trap-setting Killers anymore. And as pointed out, with cameras similar to Singularity's, she can STILL 3gen. -
@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926140#Comment_3926140
yes hes has a power that has to do with cameras. he can teleport through film it seems. i dont want another teleport killer but also can be trapped in film?
I'm not sure how they'd make that unique in game though…
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I would like to see them make the BP and Fragment gain a little higher for sure, and also alter some of the quests. Escapes and Kills are not fun milestones, I'd rather see Milestones based around interactions instead like hooking or cleansing totems. I'd also much rather have some of the later weekly challenges include things like glyphs, memory shards, and playing as specific characters again, I also really miss the Remix challenges.
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I've noticed he's had the sleeve missing on that arm for some time now, but I think it's intentional to help the player see the knife and swing better. I haven't seen that texture glitch though; you might wanna report it in the bug section.
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Making milestones based around escapes and kills really is not a fun or good idea. It encourages sweat, ratting, and other bad behavior by turning the game into "kill/escape at all costs" which is already what it is, not a fun quest whatsoever.
The milestones should be things like hooks, gen completion/kicking, cleansing totems, chasing or being chased a certain number of seconds, healing or injuring so many Survivors, etc. Even a blind/stun challenge would be better than this.I'd even rather see milestone and daily challenges based on Killers or Survivors I play. For example, "do X many Gens as Nea Karlsson", or "Mark X many Survivors as Ghostface" or "teleport to a locker X many times as Dredge" or "Be chased X many times as Nicolas Cage" or whatever. Something that encourages me to see how many times I do well as certain characters.
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Frankly OP, I think Singularity may just not be for you, and that's OK. Not everyone likes every Killer. I don't enjoy playing Wesker, I find him too slippery to use effectively on Controller for my liking.
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Hatch can only spawn if one Survivor is left. No other cases.
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I'm sure someone will make a Nightlight skin for it.
In the meantime, I agree, BHVR should allow us to choose the colors. It's not fair to colorblind players. -
@JanesKneeHighBoots said:
They could do that but if they are saying they want to move away from escapes for mmr purposes then we shouldn't be making whole milestone challenges completely based off of escaping either.
And let's be real, it can be hard enough to make it to end game for soloq as it is. x_x
I'm curious where you got this info about "moving away from escapes for MMR purposes", and if that means they are also moving away from kills for MMR purposes. Remember, not just Survivor can be SoloQ. Killer is also almost always SoloQ, they just usually have the advantage in a round. SoloQ sucks for everyone.
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I agree with this, it wasn't a good idea to make escaping a milestone for Survivor. It's as harmful as "hook everyone in the basement" or "knock down [x] Survivors" or "Kill the Obsession [x] times" were before, in that it encourages harmful and unfun behavior to complete a challenge. That isn't fun, it feels bad.
I would RATHER see dailies be used for playing certain characters in a round (not for doing certain tasks as them necessarily, but that could be an option in the future!). Then have Milestones be for completing simple tasks like repairing/kicking generators, totems, hooks, chase time in seconds, healing/injuring Survivors, stuns, anything OTHER than Kills and Escapes or worse yet, Moris and Hatches.
No more requiring harmful playstyles to complete quests, no more encouraging griefing to complete quests, no more unfun "you must play in a specific way and do a specific number of things IN ONE TRIAL" to complete quests. No more. They suck and they are not wanted.
However, I do wanna see memory shard and some glyph challenges come back - those were fun. Not all glyphs though. We can throw the Orange and Pink ones in the garbage bin I think. The rest are just fine and add to the game without sandbagging your team or negatively affecting your game to do it. -
To be fair… what would Frank Stone's power even have been? Is there something in The Casting of Frank Stone that leads anyone to believe he'd have been a unique different power?
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926096#Comment_3926096
Get. Lost. Honestly, even when I ignore you, you just continue to antagonize.
You realize the forums have a "block people" function right? You can use it if someone is bothering you to the point you're making posts like this, you don't HAVE to be rude. Just block them. It's free.
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@jjb985 said:
Just stop playing killer. Then when queue times are 30+ minutes maybe they will fix the core issues. I still have people hiding 40+ minutes every match refusing to give me 4k. When are they going to change crows, afking , locker hopping? They just don't care about killer at all.
To be absolutely so fair to you friend, that does sound frustrating, but consider: NOBODY owes you the 4k. A 3k is also a win. Just take the 3k if they want to sweat this hard.
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It really comes down to one factor: Punishing griefing.
Unfortunately, griefing tools being punished often remove interactions or concepts in this game. It doesn't need to be that way with this.
Simply ONLY punish excessive endgame waiting in the gates, excessive noise spam, etc. by letting the Killer Abandon after one minute if they do not move and nobody is on a hook, or if the Survivors are waiting in the gate doing nothing and nobody is hooked. There's almost never any reason to spend more than one minute in the exit gate if nobody is on a hook, nobody is healing, and nobody is moving. This does not harm endgame saves, endgame heals, or other endgame plays.
As for noise spam, introduce a vaulting cooldown when a Survivor vaults the same pallet or vault outside of the Killer's TR whenever they vault five times in a row. Give them a stacking hinder or block it if needs be. There is NEVER a reason to ever do noise spam period except to annoy the Killer until they watch you leave, because you need it for some kind of ego boost. It's as silly and lame as humping a Survivor on the ground. -
@[Deleted User] said:
There are M1 killers left in this game. True, they are brilliant madmen with a touch of masochism.
After all, in my heart I understand that Hillbilly or Blight with 4 slowdown perks are more correct in the game balance of DBD. If I deny it, I will be dishonest with myself.
Another thing is that if I think about playing like this every game, it drives me into terrible despondency. There is no greater curse if your only option is strong killers. True, I will not deny that there are several M1 killers for whom it is physically painful for me to play, but fortunately, there are only 2-3 of them.
There is no "correct" way to play DBD as long as you're not actively trying to annoy, grief, or hurt others. If it works and you get consistent results, what's the issue?
Why would anyone want to stress themselves out to the point they only face strong players and MUST play the strongest Killers or perks just to win rounds? Why let yourself become that addicted to winning? It's not healthy, just play the game and see what results, why do we all need to win so hard?
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@Brokenbones said:
Survivor shouldn't be made easier
It should be made less frustrating and that's what I think the whole point of a lot of these changes are. Abandon is there to quickly get out of losing games/curb bleedout matches.
Anti-camp isn't there to stop Killers from controlling unhooks and playing smart, it's there to actually punish facecamping itself which, again is a very frustrating thing to be on the end of.
Looking at the coming changes, I don't see them making Survivor any easier nor will it buff Survivors. The most effective Killers pressure around the map as effectively as they can and ping-pong hook, or play very mobile Killers that can pressure chase, or put on perks that are strong enough to help monitor the map if they aren't fast enough. They don't hard tunnel people out, they don't slug everyone for 4 minutes, and they don't camp hooks too hard. They keep moving because they HAVE to, movement is pressure, using your power is pressure. Making it harder to do the worst kinds of tunnelling, slugging, and camping will not make Survivor easier, it will make Killers more efficient, and thus make Survivor HARDER because Killers will improve.
Punishing griefers is just the icing on top, and all these "anti" features are intended to do. I'm sure the saltiest players will still find SOMETHING to whine about, both sides, but it sure won't be about greifing anymore.
EDIT: I'm… sorry people are upset about my post here apparently. But we all realistically do know BHVR is going to do nothing more intensive than what AFC and 3gen prevention do, right? These won't do much more than make hardcore tunnelling and slugging VERY undesirable. They'll still be in the game, they just won't be all that effective. -
@DeBecker said:
"Many killers feel" … thats the part where this starts to go in the wrong direction. We couldnt care less about how people feel to do something as long as this isnt reasonable necessary. And all those strategies in the way theyre used right now arent necessary at all. The game right now caters by far too much to killer players that are bad at playing the characters. Bad players that want to be as powerful as the best players. But this shouldnt be possible at all.
The underlying reason swhy people "feel" to do this are the following:
- It is due to a lack of skill and a lack of will to get good. Those are just lazy people that use the easiest way that requires no or the least necessary skill. You cant do anything to resolve this. It lies in the nature of those players.
- It is due to a lack of fairness. People want to win no matter the methods. Everything goes and if its the cheapest way, they use it. Nothing to do here too.
- People who are overly compettive and are as sweaty as possible. They abuse everything that grants them a safe route for wins. Nothing to do here too.
Killers do no need any general improvements if toise mechanics are being implemented. Thats a fundamentally false conclusion. Let those people get good or let them lose as they deserve.
The problem is there ARE still Killers, the weaker half of the roster especially, that might play dirtier because they simply can't keep up very well against the dominant chase-heavy Survivor meta. They will need serious buffs if their pick rates or kill rates begin to fall from this.
The result, of course, of such a chase heavy meta when these "dirty tricks" are removed is to either force them to run stacked chase perks, buff the Killers, change generator perks and items for Survivors somehow (which might not be entirely fair), or allow Survivors who can beat these Killers when they play fair to only ever face those higher tier Killers and nobody else for the rest of their days. I don't think any of those options sound entirely fun for everyone except for, maybe, buffing the Killers themselves.
That doesn't mean don't implement these changes, they are needed because tunnelling is quite common now. But it's also a symptom of a broader issue - we need to actually ask why it's being done in the first place and why Killers think it's necessary, and that's just not an answer that is so cut and dry. 9/10 times, it seems to be due to wanting to win, an MMR mismatch where these tricks seem necessary, or because of a Killer's inability to pressure another way and get results due to a weaker toolkit for their power. None of those are inherently toxic or intended to cause any frustration to Survivors, but they often do cause frustration anyway, and for good reason - the Survivor feels they don't get to play! And yet, for the Killer, they may feel if they don't do these on some Killers, they won't get very far. Not every Killer can inherently pressure the map hard enough with mobility or built in slowdown.
It's easy to blame Killers for this. It's easy to blame Survivors for genrushing causing this, but neither are truly why. The real reason is that BHVR has for too long let this be a thing by not adjusting and making it harder while ALSO giving Killers something to make them not feel it is needed for whatever reason.
I know it's easy to blame Killers. They're the game's antagonists, after all. But I beg of you, please see some sympathy for the other side here. Not every Killer player likes or even wants to play a super strong S or A tier. Not everyone is choosing Nurse, Blight, Billy, and Kaneki every time. For example, I'm out here maining Dredge, Ghostface, Pig, and Nemesis (when he's not killswitched) right now - none of them are A tiers, and three of them can struggle really hard in M1 chase against Survivors that are strong loopers. -
- As long as they ONLY touch the most egregious forms of slugging, camping, and tunnelling with these fixes, I have no issue with it. What are the most egregious kinds?
- Hard Tunnelling: Focusing the same person out without ever chasing anyone else from the word go, particularly off hook. This could take the form of a Survivor form of Bloodlust perhaps if they are chased for too long (BAD idea), or could take the form of a lack of collision for a Survivor that has been hooked before and finds themselves in chase, or it could be something that causes the Killer to not gain Bloodlust. I am not sure what will happen here, but I am concerned it may go too far - some soft tunnelling is understandable, and long chases are also something totally different from a tunnel. I'm worried the Devs may confuse one for the other.
- Hard Slugging: Deliberate griefing by slugging everyone for a 4k before any or many gens are done. This is really only possible on certain Killers, since they are so quick or have instant downs. I do not count slugging for a 4k as an issue any longer because we now have the abandon feature which solves the "I am waiting for 4 minutes on the ground while the Killer shuffles back and forth on my corpse" issue, which was really the reason everyone hates it. For the four man start of round slug issue, I think perhaps a basekit Unbreakable that is unlimited prior to any gens being done is warranted. For cases where this happens midround, have the ability to Abandon the round without any penalty be offered after being slugged for 60 seconds, or if the player is slugged repeatedly (like, two or three times in a row after they just got picked up). In addition, shorten the bleedout timer to 2 minutes, because 4 minutes is just stupid and has no reason to exist when the Abandon feature is a thing. This also makes a down left by the Killer more of a threat, meaning Survivors can't just ignore the downed person - they have to go save them. It also means Survivors can't make it difficult for the Killer to hook by crawling into a far corner and forcing them to carry them elsewhere. Plus, come on, the endgame timer is 2 minutes, why do we need bleedout to be 4?
- Hard Camping: The only inherently problematic type of camping IMHO was fixed already and it was Face-camping, both Killers and Survivors can do the other type of camping - camping pallets, camping unhooks/hooks, camping a down, camping generators a bit to force progression when the Killer leaves/regression when Survivors leave, camping behind rocks to save, etc. Camping to some degree is a part of the game's strategy, but we have things already to deal with face-camping and 3genning/gen tapping both sides. I do not think any further improvements need to be made here, save one: The AFC should be much larger for Killers that have ranged attacks or speed. It should be set to 16 meters for most, but for Killers that have a larger TR, have range, or have quicker speed, it should be set to 24 meters. This would prevent proxy camping Bubbas, Billys, Huntresses, Tricksters, Nurses, and Kanekis without being detrimental to Killers who pressure around hooks as part of their powers, such as Myers stalking an unhooker to pressure it or Legion dashing in to tag an unhooker for their Frenzy proc before leaving.
As stated, I think whatever they do for the last two won't be enough but will solve the worst issues. I am worried about antitunnel though, because how is the game going to decide what a tunnel is without overstepping and accidentally harming the weaker half of the roster or Killers who just want to innocently pressure unhookers at hooks?
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99% of the time if I hit a hooked or recently unhooked Survivor, it was a misaim when I was trying to aim for the unhooker. Because of the glitch that steals hits by aimlocking your weapon swing to the nearest Survivor, which for some ungodly reason includes Survivors on hooks or recently unhooked ones.
You know how you fix this? Remove unhook endurance and give Survivors that are hooked or just got off the hook no collision for the Killer only for the same duration of time that you WOULD have off-hook endurance, or until they start doing anything else like being healed, interacting with an object, doing a gen, opening a chest, etc. That way Killers that are innocently just pressuring unhooks or trying to go for the unhooker won't accidentally hit an unintended target, AND Survivors can be happy that direct tunnelling off the hook is gone. It's also a way to prevent attempting to use an anti-grief feature against the Killer, which is a nuisance I'm pretty sure encourages tunnelling more than not. I know I'm certainly more encouraged to chase a person who tries to body block with off-hook endurance more than I am someone who just runs away and lets me chase the unhooker… -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925124#Comment_3925124
It has been stated multiple times before that they will not ban people for things they can killswitch. If something is bad enough, they kill switch it. No reason to ban players when they may not even realize what is going on.
Exactly, I would have likely played Nemesis a few days ago if he hadn't been killswitched and not realized what was wrong. The only reason I didn't play him is because I found out about the glitch before he was killswitched, I will not use unfair advantages.
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Balance is pretty much fine now except for S tier Killers and super coordinated strong SWFs, which makes sense. The OP strong stuff is still strong. Nurse is still OP and coordinated SWF still can destroy the lower tiers especially at high MMR. But overall the game is pretty balanced now, all Killers feel pretty good and are hitting the target, so now it's time to balance a bit for Survivor side.
My issue is, they still need to balance some Survivor items like toolboxes, give new items (which it seems like they're going to do), remove some old nuisance mechanics from both sides (like being able to drop items to avoid crows and excessive tunnelling at five gens), balance maps, and overall improve the experience for all. Half of that is on the roadmap already. -
@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924332#Comment_3924332
They KS him but they disnt ban anybody abusing broken nemi
Because they just found the glitches a few days ago when Orela dropped. They could have been accidental, not abuse.
They also did not ban anyone for the Oni exploit with Iron Grasp years ago, or the Flashlight Locker exploit that existed for several days before flashlights got killswitched.
It seems the policy of the Devs on glitch based exploits is to assume good faith and that anyone using them before the killswitch was misguided, why be draconian when malice can be explained by mistake or not realizing there was any abuse going on? They acted downright quick this time actually. Again… quicker than the flashlight locker exploit.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924339#Comment_3924339
Probably, yeah. Ghoul's probably the strongest M1 killer right now. Maybe second to Spirit? But very good either way.
I guess calling Ghoul an M1 killer does somewhat test the definition, but there's not really any way around the fact that he is, his power exists to get the first hit and to catch up for the second.
Unless we create a new category for killers like Legion and Ghoul. You could probably toss Skull Merchant in there too, for killers whose powers injure but don't down. That'd be worthwhile I think, the more of those we get.
This, it's simply no longer true to state "M1 Killers are weak" and be done with it because strong M1 Killers like Spirit and I'd argue Kaneki exist. Yes, as you said Ghoul is M1, his power is not fundamentally used to down Survivors so he's M1. These M1s are strong because of mobility. So really, it's more accurate to say "Mobility is extremely strong, perhaps too strong". M1 no longer automatically means "weak", the definition has changed more towards "mobility" meaning "strong", usually.
I think anyone who has super high mobility at this point is in a league of their own and playing a different game entirely, your S tiers if you will. But at the same time, it's really is not enough to consider a Killer "strong" just because they have some mobility, more like middling. Dredge for example is middling, and someone without that mobility like say… Trapper, would be a low tier despite him having Haste.
But crucially, none of this seems to matter. Low tiers are still hitting close a 60% Kill rate on average, and still winning rounds as a 3-4k most of the time as long as you try hard enough, so really what is the issue? They're clearly balanced for their niche, their niche just happens to be lower on the totem pole. You're welcome to go play against the uberSWFs with strong killers if you really want, that's what they are for, but for everyone else who just wants to play and have some casual rounds, sticking in the bottom half with the M1s that don't have as much in their kit is fine.
So again… what's the problem? I don't see one. It's just that there's two groups of Killers, and they both play the game at different levels.EDIT: Downvoting me does not change the fact that mobility is the strongest effect in the game and it's not even close. The question is, is it even HEALTHY to design the game around increasingly high mobility when it pushes the weaker half of the roster down to become even more weak?
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@H2H said:
it’s very telling how, when discussing weaker killers, people come out of the woodwork to say “actually they’re fine if you don’t try to win”
I dunno man, if the key to enjoying a killer is “don’t try to win” maybe that killer needs a buff
Or maybe it's evidence that the game is and was always intended to be more casual? These Killers are still right around a 60% Kill Rate according to the Devs' data, so what exactly is the issue here?
EDIT: Downvoting me does not change the fact the Devs are clearly working to make this game more causally minded, why else would they make changes like these? It's certainly not for comp players or the old guard like us… -
@Minibeasty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924276#Comment_3924276
Well we do.
But I think it's safe to assume that the old rift/challenge system was the least difficult aspect for new players. They still have to deal with the plethora of perks, add-ons, items, different killers and maps.
This might be a step in the right direction, but it's really far far from enough.
I agree, more and better needs to be done. The colors I think look fine, and the Quest system is IMHO better. I will concede that the game is still a slog for new players, but even a little nudge helps, it's SOMETHING to teach players and keep them from feeling so helpless at least… what we really need is a better tutorial.
As per the Quest system. Yes, it's a good system and a step in the right direction IMHO. I personally didn't really enjoy how many challenges in the tomes FORCED you to do hyper specific things like have a certain perk setup on certain characters (Ash, looking at you here), go hook everyone in the basement, have to do a certain number of absurd things that encouraged bad gameplay and griefing (such as Knockout which asks you to slug a certain number of Survs in one trial), or do obnoxious glyph challenges that made the game harder for no reason (Orange glyphs suck, I'm sorry, but they suck, and white glyphs ain't much better). There were also challenges that were gated off by certain characters forcing you to buy the characters just to finish the tome - you don't have to do that now.To me, the old system felt grindy, like a to-do list of chores. I would much rather just earn stuff for playing normally, I don't need the extra incentive of challenges or silly stuff that distracts from the core game as a reward. It makes me feel more engaged to see myself earn progress on something like the Rift, often on multiple tasks at once, than just pick one from the tome and grind that one until it's finished; this way even if I lose the round, I gained something - shards, BP, and rift progress - and that takes a LOT of the sting out of a loss for me. It probably does for others too. I haven't felt this motivated to play since back during the first time we saw Modes, this sort of "rewarded for simply playing the game" encourages me to play more!
Not sure why that opinion was worth people ratioing me though when we're saying functionally the same thing: Quest system good, but needs improvements. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924334#Comment_3924334
What is glitched about them?
Several perks were interacting improperly with his M2, and he was able to lunge while carrying a Survivor. He was also having some weird things happen with his whip. Specifically the perks STBFL, Mad Grit, AND PWYF are all busted on him at the moment.
So really, what isn't glitched about Nemesis right now?
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@pocketsnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906178#Comment_3906178
Like I said, I did one head on for a challenge at the start of a match with nothing else to it and got hard tunneled out. The killer even told me hope you liked your little head on when I called them out for tunneling me.
I don't recall ever accusing you of Head On being a tool used to grief or excessively Head On-ing anyone, so I'm not sure why you're coming at me specifically. I don't consider using Head On a form of griefing or abuse, but some Killer players are insecure and yes, might tunnel you out for it.
The kind of griefing I mean is stuff like you sandbagging your team, deliberately trying to draw me over to others to team with me, or generally doing things to intentionally make my and others' games as miserable as possible. If you're not griefing, you have no need to worry about me tunnelling you out specifically, or doing anything else considered to be a bad time for Survivor side.
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To me, tunnelling is when you hyperfocus one specific Survivor on purpose, repeatedly, until they're dead, even when other viable targets are possible. You just pick one Survivor, and focus on them so all they get to do is be chased and end up hooked. By this definition it follows what others here are saying.
It MUST be purposeful, intended, and done with the objective of getting one person out as fast as possible to tilt the game in your favor. That IS what tunnelling is. That IS the problematic kind of tunnelling. Thankfully, this sort of tunnelling is very rare! Most of the time what people call tunnelling is not this, even if it might feel like it.
Examples of True Hard Tunnelling:
- The Dredge decides to ONLY chase Laurie all round until she dies, because the player does not like Laurie (this happened to me last night, I was the Laurie).
- The Nightmare catches Cheryl, hooks her, and then leaves. The Nightmare then, on later returning to check the hook, finds Meg unhooking Cheryl and chooses to deliberately target Cheryl instead of Meg.
- The Huntress sees Yui and Jake healing under hook, Jake has recently gotten off hook. The Huntress decides to aim her axe at Jake instead of Yui, and refuses to let Jake get healed by throwing axes specifically at him whenever he tries to heal or is healed.
- The Nurse purposefully keeps returning to the same hook with Blink because she can, just to down Taurie when she is taken off the hook and harass her.
- The Shape is running Tombstone Piece and REALLY wants to get a Mori on Vittorio specifically, so he chooses to stalk everyone but only chase Vittorio. Vittorio is an excellent Looper, however, and manages to run the Shape for two gens. This angers the Shape, he catches Vittorio and Moris him, but then gives up and lets the rest of the team go after getting his Mori.
Tunnelling can sometimes be done to punish sweaty or griefing behavior, but it's your call on if that is justified or not. To me if you're doing it to punish bad behavior, it's understandable but still a mean thing to do to someone. Examples:
- Claudette brings a map offering that is heavily Survivor biased with the purpose of hoping for an M1 Killer, like Trapper, to give the player an advantage or exploit a certain build. Unfortunately the Killer is The Nemesis who was burned while playing The Pig a few rounds ago by this sort of shenanigan, and decides to force Claudette out as punishment.
- The Oni notices that Ace is being a real jerk to their team - sandbagging, not doing gens, trying to force their attention onto other Survs, just really griefy behavior. To teach Ace a lesson and to let the others get points, the Oni decides to tunnel out Ace and let the other three go.
Soft, tactical, and accidental tunnelling can also occur. This is the difference to me between hard tunnelling and tactical play, there MUST be intent there for it to be problematic. If it's not intentional, is a tactical play, or is an accident, it's okay! Examples:
- The Houndmaster is patrolling hooks when she notices David pull Dwight off the hook not far away. To pressure the unhook, she decides to sic Snug on them, and Snug ends up biting Dwight instead of David, so she simply takes the free down and rehooks Dwight. She then ignores Dwight the rest of the round.
- The Wraith has just downed Leon, but knows Jill has a Flashlight and Champion of Light. The Wraith did just chase Jill and hook her earlier, but knows Jill is behind a rock waiting, so the Wraith runs over to the rock to spook Jill away from the downed Leon so he can hook.
- An experienced Killer player is currently playing as The Demogorgon, and doing well. They choose to spread hooks by hooking Lara, then the unhooking Baermar, then finding Lara to hook her again. That is, they ping-pong hooks. They then start to go for Renato to spread hooks more, but leave Gabriel for last as Lara, then Baermar, then Renato and finally Gabriel fall, resulting in more even hooks, more hooks spread out over time, a 4k, and a more fun experience for everyone.
The following would not, IMHO, be examples of tunnelling because they lack intent, are tactical, are brought on themselves, or are an accident:
- The Legion sees that Zarina and Jane are healing under hook. Legion did just hook Jane, but has activated Feral Frenzy and this is where it led them. So, Legion runs in, hits Jane with their power, hits Zarina, and then leaves (This happened to me in Chaos Shuffle 1.0, I was the Legion, and yes they did accuse me of tunnelling for this).
- The Ghostface is pressuring a hook by stalking Mikaela unhooking Sable, and finishes the Mark on Mikaela. Using his stealth and his haste from Drop-Leg Knife Sheath, he runs in and goes to stab her, but accidentally stabs Sable instead. The Ghostface then sees the opportunity to generate much needed pressure and maybe even down two Survivors at once - Mikaela is exposed and would not do anything risky, and Sable's offhook endurance just got canceled, so he chooses to go after Sable to down her, then downs Mikaela a few seconds after and hooks both.
- The Spirit keeps finding Feng-Min and nobody else because Feng is wearing a brighter skin than her companions, or her companions are hiding. Therefore, the Spirit chases Feng repeatedly because that's the only person she can find.
- Nea has one hook and is feeling very cocky with her Off the Record. She sees that the Knight is chasing Aestri (who is healthy and just got Steve off the hook), but thinks she can do a cool play and runs in to body block with the endurance, despite just getting off the hook a few seconds ago. This annoys the Knight, so he chases and downs her.
- A newer player decides to try the Ghoul for the first time, and realizes he is very good at patrolling. They're even good at hitting Survivors when they do things like unhook without giving them a chance to heal! Oh wow they're having so much fun with this character, they're so glad they started playing DBD, maybe they will even Main the Ghoul! In one round, this baby Ghoul sees Yun-Jin, who just got off the hook, is on a generator he just pressured. So, they innocently decide to go after her again, wow this chase stuff is so fun, and she's injured so she is a good target! They down Yun-Jin and hook her, but she DCs. They are confused but continue the round and 4k. To their shock, the entire group of Survivors yells at them in the endgame chat about something called "tunnelling". The baby Ghoul doesn't understand, what is "tunnelling?" They just wanted to chase and Yun-Jin looked like the best target, are they not supposed to do that?
- Dracula hears whimpering behind a rock while in Bat form and shifts to Vampire Form to see what Survivor it is, because several are injured and he can't tell. Without really thinking, he hits the Orela who just got off the hook instead of another Orela in the same round who is also injured and wearing the same skin. He then hooks the downed Orela, forgetting to check the HUD, and doesn't realize his mistake until he notices the other Orela has no hooks later.
So, it's multifaceted as you can see. To me the key is it HAS to be intentional, it HAS to be for the purpose of not letting one person play the game, and it HAS to be malicious. It's specifically chasing the same person on purpose and ONLY them for the majority of the round with the intent to ruin their game.
tl;dr - if you focus one person all round to ruin a game or punish bad behavior, yep that is tunnelling and sweaty/griefing depending on context. Anything else explainable by an accident, tactical play, using a power as intended, or caused by a Survivor playing badly/getting in the way of someone else is NOT tunnelling.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924022#Comment_3924022
I feel like a "casual, chill mode" would be impossible to do as well.
Because, frankly, what's stopping people from coming in with a mindset to be a nuisance?
We already have them, they're called modes. People DO come in to be comp nuisances in them, but they are a) the minority, b) frowned upon.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924324#Comment_3924324
To be fair, two of the killers on your list are M1 killers.
Spirit and Singularity only have powers to help catch up and their attack even still count as basic attacks, they're M1 killers. I think the real answer here is that - at least higher up in MMR - people broadly gravitate towards the stronger options and there are fewer-but-not-zero strong M1 killers. So, higher up, you see the list of stronger killers, and only a handful of them are M1.
Personally, I still see a lot of Legion, Ghostface, Wraith, and Myers, but I'm willing to bet my survivor MMR is only fairly middling.
I'm willing to bet it's healthier to have that middling MMR. Mine's middling too and I see a nice variety. Very fun! I hardly ever see these uberstrong Killers. Or uberstrong SWFs for that matter.
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@ForumPikmin said:
OMG YALL THEY KILLSWITCHED HIM LETS GOOOOOOOO
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/94IK5JBTIVKW/screenshot-2025-05-09-103920.png
Good, he was broken. Now fix the other issues.
STILL surprised they didn't killswitch the glitchy flashbangs and firecrackers though, we JUST got out of the quiet flashbang problem… -
@crogers271 said:
Doesn't it seem a bit hypocriticalNope, its an asym, the two sides are having different games. If we start talking about hypocrisy, the whole game is hypocrisy.
allow survivors to give up and go next when they're in a losing situation (all survivors are down)This isn't just a 'losing' situation, this is a 'lost' situation. Its not like survivors can abandon if a killer has someone eliminated and there are still four gens to go, even though they are clearly losing. Its for the situations where the game is over and sticking around is kind of pointless.
With how killer queues have been, getting survivors out of the match and back into the next one is also kind of necessary.
When the gates are opened the killer can't just give up if they want to.I think this would be fine for the killer to leave and be replaced by a bot.
I agree with the bot idea at the end there crogers, problem is we do not have bots for every Killer yet. I hope in time we will, and then such a feature can be implemented.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923927#Comment_3923927
comp literally does exist in dbd and the rules are tweaked literally so that game can be more fair. Implementing comp/ranked mode would literally help devs finally see state of the game and have a proper sample of players they can make balance decisions based on.
An alternate ruleset that a group of dedicated extremely skilled players who enjoy a competitive setting crated is not the same as a dedicated mode for it. There's a modding scene for things like Hollow Knight and a whole scene for hide and seek in games like TF2 as well, that doesn't mean the game is intended to be played that way or even the way most people play it.