LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928581#Comment_3928581
Or they're people who do play him. He got three noticeable buffs that pair well with the fearmonger class, and the exposed duration "nerf" isn't noticeable at all. You need to kill quickly in 2v8, and he's one of the better killers at doing so if you're a decent M1 killer. With how fast you can expose survivors and also make them exposed for your partner, it would be ridiculous if you could just expose a group of survivors forever.
His buffs are far better than what they gave Trapper, Nemesis, and Slinger.
He's a secondary for me and I do not play him that often, but I will say this - I can tell when the Ghostface in question actually mains him or plays him seriously, because they're stellar at getting quick downs especially in this mode. I don't think I have seen an Exposed timer get outrun in this mode yet, actually, even at just 30 seconds.
I can see though why it may be difficult in SoloQ with Ghostface, as quality of teammates vary. But going in with a friend and a plan, he's perfectly fine. -
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/445343/2v8-ghostface-is-nerfed
why didn't they get rid of his reveal until he attacked? since he can be observed from too many angles too easily
That's actually not been my experience with him. Also did you know? Him being revealed can be seen by the other Killer. It's free info!
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928576#Comment_3928576
No. If I was running solo q killer in 2v8, I would never ever want Ghostface as the teammate, regardless if they picked Fearmonger.
Seeing a Ghostface killer teammate is massively disappointing, and just ruins the vibes of the entire game. I waited through a massive killer queue time, just to be disappointed before the game has even started?
The entire game, I would just imagine how much better everything would be if my teammate picked someone more useful like Billy/Oni/Legion/Blight.
Sorry you have bad Ghostfaces on your team in 2v8. I've been destroying as him, and all the ones I've been getting have been excellent teammates that have helped a lot. Turns out the chaos of 2v8 makes it way easier for him to hide and stalk in, and if he's good at Marking you can even get some extra exposed downs.
He's fine. I'm sorry the people you have played with cannot play him properly. But he's fine. He wasn't nerfed. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928656#Comment_3928656
yup, i am aware. i argue for both sides, and when i support survivors i get upvotes, and when i argue for killers i get downvotes. all i want is a fair and balanced game, and some downvotes really dont annoy me.
This exact issue is why the forums shouldn't have downvotes. I'm not angry when I get them, I just know how much of a cesspit they turned Reddit into. These forums should not be Reddit.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928571#Comment_3928571
We will admit to not being the most empathetic of people, but it's coming to a point where everything that can be considered "bullying" will want to have a surrender option.
Tell us, in honesty, is the survivors t-bagging at the exit gate during the endgame collapse in the same league as the killers keeping 4 slugged and walking back and forth on them? Is it the same where the slugs the killer leaves who have no practical agency (defined as: the ability to do something meaningful) while the killer can freely roam around and do things (of which some are practical)? One of those seems more like bullying while the other is more like rudeness.
All games are for anyone who plays them and bullying is indeed wrong, but there's a certain line where actual bullying needs defined from being an arse, cause we're beginning to see it blurred here.
My friend and I had three speedhackers, two teabaggers harassing him (he has 100 hours and is learning Wesker), and another Surv who stuck around in the endgame chat just to spam "ggez ezzzzz was there even Killers" a night ago in 2v8. To a baby. A Baby. SOMEONE LEARNING.
Today I was in 2v8 SWF with friends, five to be exact, and we got a baby Huntress and brand new Legion just learning the game in 2v8 to try Killer. They were maybe 500 hours combined and got us, a group with thousands of collective hours, plus a very toxic random Meg who treated them both like absolute crap in the EGC. She called them names. She bodyshamed them. She accused them of being a lesbian. Then when I advocated for the Huntress who was genuinely trying and seemed upset, Meg bodyshamed and orientation shamed me. Oh, and she was hiding her profile so I couldn't even report her harassment whatsoever.
On what planet is this OK when one side does it but not the other? No wonder Killers slug to avoid humiliating defeats like this. No wonder some Killer players get such anxiety loading up. No wonder, no wonder, no wonder.
It's also just an issue of kindness overall, you don't know what someone may be playing this game to escape from. There could be vulnerable people playing, there could be younger people playing, there could be people who have been hurt in the past playing. This is not a "just tough it out" issue either, research has shown that harassment and humiliation online (also called cyberbullying) can and does cause anxiety, depression, PTSD, trauma, and suffering. This behavior over time causes demonstrable harm to people and can ruin mental health. It's not just a little teabag, it's the bagging, the taunting, the harassment, the nasty words in the Endgame chat. Then they come to forums, social media, communities for DBD and they get even more of the same treatment and told to "git gud" instead of given a place to vent, often by more Survivor players who sit there in their four times as great numbers to specifically mock them more. This is not a welcoming environment for ANYONE to get into this game. And what is BHVR's official stance about it?
"Survivors do not have any agency, but Killers have plenty of agency." Yeah sure. Agency to be humiliated until some might even quit the game. And it's because the community, us, we made it like that.
That crap is absolutely heinous.BHVR has to do something about the toxicity at some point, my friend was fine and so was I, but the harassment and toxic nature of this community has the capacity to drive away people who might be new and want to learn. This pushes out people who want to play Killer, but don't want to be treated like this just for playing Killer. Not everyone is going to stick around to be treated like this. You know that and I know that.
I know we're both hardened old goats of the game at this point, we're numb to this. But some new player may not be. In fact, it's already driven players away. It will continue to. DBD has the reputation of being one of the most toxic communities in gaming - and as long as this stuff continues, it deserves it.It needs handled. It NEEDS handled. We need sportsmanship options; this stuff has got to stop. It wasn't okay in the Quake days. It wasn't OK in the COD days. And it's not okay here. At the least give us the OPTION as Killer to forfeit, because Survivor side gets it, why doesn't the other? If the round is a clear loss, it's a loss, let everyone get points and move the actual heck on.
Yes. It's not up for debate anymore. Killers need a surrender option in cases where the game is clearly over, they are in a checkmate situation, and the Survivors will not leave. This thread should now become - and has become it looks like - a place to discuss how and when to implement that. And if the Devs do not listen here, then we need to continue putting it in the surveys until they DO listen.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928019#Comment_3928019
there is something called awful matchmaking where even worst killers like Sadako have insanely high killrates and give consistent wins to people who spent time learning them.
It's almost as though learning a Killer in depth and getting very good at them makes you a better Killer that is more consistent or something…
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Ghostface is a terrible choice for solo q 2v8, because solo q killers can't choose what killer their teammate is playing, and their teammate might be playing a killer that wants to damage survivors with a non-basic attack. This is especially true because Oni is the other new 2v8 killer, and he gets to be in blood fury mode A LOT in 2v8, and therefore doesn't get a lot of value from the exposed status. In fact, Oni players would prefer if their teammate didn't 1 shot the survivors, because injured survivors drop lots of blood orbs.
And Ghostface has terrible map mobility, and a stealth mechanic that gets worse when the number of survivors increases.
And if anyone's like "he's still good". Just remember that "good" isn't good, when we have hyper aggressive killers like Legion and Oni, that bring way more value to their teammates.
Just run Fearmonger, it fixes literally all those issues except for the Reveal thing.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928364#Comment_3928364
Yes! A second hotfix is planned, although we're not sharing info on its contents quite yet. While I can't promise it will be part of this hotfix, let me flag this pesky Artist bug for the team. To confirm, this is in relation to the audio and visual of crow swarms hitting a Survivor being delayed, right?
Will the glitch with Dracula lagging when he swaps forms be fixed soon? That's been an issue for a bit now.
Similarly, will you be fixing the glitch that causes Dredge to not always see lockers when it's inside of a locker? That's incredibly frustrating at the moment. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
Achievements matter just as much as mmr, which is to say, it doesn't matter at all.
Us having fun is more fun than something that hasn't been relevant since maybe 2012.
Some people like collecting Cheevos, they very much matter to those people.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928417#Comment_3928417
I always think this is a good idea, but the abandon for this case should only be available once all remaining survivors are in an open gate for ~20 seconds. That will let console survivors have some time to celebrate at the gate briefly since they don't usually have access to post-game chat. And in that case, the match is genuinely over, and if the killer still wants to go for a grab at the gate, they're free to try it.
I generally don't see much bm, but teabagging at the gates is a very common killer complaint, and I can imagine it's very irritating. The killer experience might be more positive that way and lead to a little less toxicity in the community :D
I think this would be a fair, good compromise as long as Bot Killers exist.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928308#Comment_3928308
Then the most empathetic, genuine response I can give you is that you maybe need to consider if playing PVP games online is for you.
Because unfortunately, in every PVP game I've ever played there have been BM, toxic, and bully players. Tea bagging, emoting, taunting, and even toxic chat and voice is something that exists everywhere, and if it bothers you that badly you may just need to walk away.
Because in all of my experience in PVP online games these things have always existed, and that includes games where there is no disconnect penalty at all.
There is no mechanic that they can add that will fix that issue for you.
And in every PVP game I've ever played, the penalties for this have always been through game mechanics (barring extreme and reportable examples of things like chat messages). Bad actors getting farmed, spawn camped, or sometimes just their own team refusing to help them.
But if that genuinely bothers you and triggers an avoidance response, then online PVP may not be the best environment for your mental health and well being.
This response is neither empathetic nor genuine, it's another way to try and make yourself look better while you advocate for literal griefing. PvP games are for everyone, Bullying is wrong, and if you can't see that I can't help you.
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Oni and Legion really need some tweaks and they should never be able to be paired together, the combination is just too broken.
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After further rounds with him, I think Ghostface is actually quite good in this mode. He's a lot better here than I thought, the Reveal isn't as terrible as I thought it'd be and the Haste in Shroud REALLY helps - it should be, in some minor way, placed on him in Shroud basekit in 1v4.
He's actually a very good support character. Fearmonger on him is fantastic and Enforcer isn't terrible either. Pair him with most Killers and he's still a good pick regardless. You could do much worse in this mode than be paired with Ghostie.
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@Jtflorencio said:
That's completely true. They absurdly nerfed Ghost Face xD … and buffed Oni/Legion (broken Buffs in 8vs2) and... Billy/Blight were already Tier S and it can be seen in every game.
Nerf the Killers and buff the appropriate Killers and motivate the bloodpoints to play survi for 500%, which on my server I have them at 200% and the Killer queues exceed 10 minutes.
My opinion:
Big Nerf: Oni/Legion/Billy
Nerf: Blight/Nurse
Buff: Deathslinger/Trapper
Big Buff: Ghost Face- Billy's fine.
- Legion and Oni together are an issue but separate just need some tweaks, Oni moreso than Legion. It IS an issue and does need fixing.
- Blight is fine, Nurse is fine, both together is a little problematic but not that horrible.
- Deathslinger could use a buff.
- Trapper's fine.
- Ghostface has enough of a buff and is fine, he should be given some small Haste in Shroud in 1v4 actually. It's what he needs, just give it to him.
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This isn't necessarily just an Oni and Legion issue, though that combo IS horrifically unfair and both Killers will need adjusting in future 2v8s. This has ALWAYS been an issue. That's because Killer in 2v8 is the draw, not Survivor side, Survivor side isn't as fun in 2v8 and never will be. This is why they keep adding stuff like herbs and smoke bombs to the mode, so Survivors have more to do.
You're never getting rid of this issue in 2v8 until we have a Play While You Wait option and you will never have a fun 2v8 for both sides if one side becomes OP strong across the board. Sorry…
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I think if someone messes up and did horrible things in the past, and they apologize and try to turn a new leaf over going forward, we really need to accept the apology and let them move forward. 2020 was 5 years ago now. There is no such thing as double jeopardy in law, that's illegal, there should not be double jeopardy in the court of public opinion. How can people grow and change if we never give them the chance to fix it or make it up to those they hurt?
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@feechima said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928208#Comment_3928208
I agree, for one the maps are too large. There are a max of 4 medics which never happens in solo queue. And not only do you have to heal someone you have to mend them (and yourself) first. Massive waste of time when you need gens up. Plus Oni slugs, so now you have to get them off the ground or let them slowly recovery. Oni and Legion are the worst additions to 2v8 thus far and I used to complain about having to vs the same 4 killers in the first 2v8. Tuh.
The maps being too large is true but it's really weird to see it as a problem for Survivor side, usually that's a complaint for Killer side!
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927214#Comment_3927214
The achievements and trophies cannot be changed unless they become physically unattainable.
Making Cheevos this luck based would make them almost unobtainable.
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I like metroidvanias, horror games, stealth games puzzle games, Creative games, adventure games, and difficult/Nintendo Hard games. Roguelikes too.
Some of my favorites are:
- Okami (OG and the sequel Okamiden) - this game is friggin' art and I will not hear otherwise.
- Silent Hill 2 (the whole series is decent up to 4. There are no other games after 4.)
- Hollow Knight (I have gotten the true ending on this game roughly 20 times. This game is also art; When Silksong?)
- Eldritch (Lovecraftian Roguelike)
- The Myst franchise (VERY old ancient puzzle walking sim game about exploring other worlds. Very relaxing and fun to me.)
- The Thief franchise (I like stealth games a lot)
- The Batman: Arkham games (again, I like stealth games a lot)
- The Magic Circle (Meta?game about games)
- Spore (sometimes; I never go beyond Civilization stage because I just don't like the Space Stage much - I like creating things)
- Minecraft (I only play in Creative and build big things in it. I like to make a world and then find places to build hidden massive stuff like underground temples and crazy portals and things.)
- Pokemon (but I fell off after around the Platium/Pearl era and the most recent game I own from it is HeartGold.)
In terms of non video game stuff, I run and play tabletop RPGs and I'm basically a forever GM. I primarily run Call of Cthulhu and The Yellow King RPG. I have run the former for 10 years and the latter for three, but also play both. I have dabbled in playing FATE based games, Warhammer 40k, Dungeons and Dragons (5e), MORK BORG, Delta Green, Trail of Cthulhu, Fear Itself, Deadlands, Legend of the Five Rings, dread., Vampire: The Masquerade, and Seventh Sea. As you can imagine seeing D&D come to the Fog was super cool for me.
I'd say DBD has affected my love for games like these, as an escape from how brutal DBD can be, as well as influenced me in this game. I was drawn to stealth Killers for my love of stealth, drawn to this game for my love of horror, and can roll with a lot more punches and tolerate more because I like games that are harsh and tough to master. I didn't list them here but I grew up on Sierra adventure games that sometimes were brutally punishing - maybe that's why I am okay with playing M1s, despite their difficulty. If I can die hundreds of times in Hollow Knight to the Watcher Knights and still come back for more, I can handle a more difficult time winning as Pig. And I try to be fair if harsh as a GM and play what I like as Survivor, so to me it seems natural to be fair if harsh to my opponents and just try to have fun with builds I like!
Pokemon Crystal also gave me a quote I like to keep near and dear to me about Survivor builds and Killer choice in DBD, paraphrased: "Strong [Killers/Builds]. Weak [Killers/Builds]. These are just the selfish perceptions of humans. True champions try to win with their favorites."
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I have playlists for some of my Killers, or I'll listen to random stuff on Pandora. I like to listen to metal and rock as Legion, dark brooding blues and smoky jazz as Ghostface, and Pop songs as someone like Nemesis (because funny). I like dark brooding instrumental stuff, grunge, and dark electronica as Dredge.
I don't take the game seriously enough to care about wins, music can hit the spot and even enhance it for me. It's truly something special to be listening to Ice Nine Kills or Ghost or Creature Feature as a Killer to me. Playing Ghostface while Red Right Hand plays in the background is peak.
If I really want to feel like a slasher villain, I sometimes throw on Dark Synthwave - anything that sounds like it belongs in 80's horror or Stranger Things will do. Bands/artists like Perturbator, Le Castle Vania, The Slasher Film Festival Strategy, John Carpenter, Midnight Danger, We Are Magonia, and the like.As Survivor I have no set style, it's just variety music I already like.
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After a few more rounds I think I can confidently say if you are good at M1 Killer, good at Stealth and like support, he's probably one of the better Killers in 2v8. He actually pairs with several Killers really well and he feels really, really good in this mode. He's excellent at support, when he is Revealed it gives the other Killer info, and his Exposed is quite useful for both Killers. I don't even see the downside of the 30 second Mark timer, it feels fair from both sides to me because 2v8 is faster paced, so a 30 second Exposed just makes sense here. He's a great pick for the mode! Fearmonger is definitely what you should run on him, or maybe Enforcer.
I actually think some of the haste in Shroud (but obviously not 10%) ought to come to 1v4 as a buff for him, it helps a lot and I hope this is a test run for that.
Anyone complaining he got nerfed realistically probably just wants a powerhouse Killer that can dominate on their own every round, like Blight or Nurse. Who are both in 2v8, sooooo…
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It appears the glitch happens when you completed these quests before the cosmetic rewards went live, I got the badge just fine. And I love it and am not removing it it's way too cute. <3
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Because this iteration of 2v8 was ready before they added it. They can't magically squeeze blood from a stone, they can't put in something they don't have yet. They just announced it for the next time as something being worked on.
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Maybe because it's just common sense that a Killer might go after the person closest to death with the most hooks? That's flawed AI logic that feels bad but it IS logic.
It's also proof that some (light) "tunnelling" appears to be fundamental to the game. -
@I_Cant_Loop said:
I played 8 games and didn’t escape a single time yet. Lots of Oni/Legion combos. In prior 2v8 events, I had no problem escaping on a regular basis - more often than normal 1v4 solo queue. Either survivor players got a lot worse since then, or BHVR went way overboard tweaking the balance between last event and this one.
What boggles my mind is why BHVR thought that this time around there should be more incentive to play killer and less incentive to player survivor in 2v8 mode. Are they going for a new record on killer queue wait times for this one? That seems to be the only explanation.
They may have realized the Survivor escape rate was a bit too high and tweaked it. They may have realized they over-estimated some things. Or it may just be an influx of super casual and chill players, new players, etc. I have seen some SHOCKINGLY bad new Ghostfaces in 2v8. I mean not even understanding how to stalk, it's not just Survivors.
Everyone's right that Oni/Legion is 100% problematic in this mode. Legion just isn't fun in this mode, and Oni on top of it makes it even worse. -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928308#Comment_3928308
Design wise, if we give players an out at every emotionally frustrating point
ie:losing a chase, survivors escaping, bad map pressure…
it effectively becomes a "skip button" for unfavorable outcomes.The survivor abandon feature was added in response to forced loss of agency; situations like slugging and match stalling, that made the game unplayable.
Killers, even at the endgame, still have agency: tools, mobility, power, and potential for clutch plays/kills. That's a critical difference.
Wanting to abandon the match just because it feels unwinnable isn't the same as the match being over. That’s part of the loss condition. Designing around frustration or ego instead of gameplay, opens the door to abuse and undermines the value of key moments, especially in the endgame.
Then you believe there should not be an abandon feature for Survivors even if the Killer is W-Sing them on the ground for a four minute four man slug bleedout while the Killer strokes their ego?
If that's not okay, why is it okay for something equivalent when Survs do it? Both are hurtful. Both feel bad to be on the receiving end of. Both are griefing. I don't care if the Killer technically has agency - put a bot in and let the Killer move on. If we let Survivors move on, why oh why can't Killers?
Nobody has satisfactorily explained this to me yet, all people are saying is "but the Killer has agency" (many do not in these scenarios), "but the game's not technically over" (in some cases YES IT ABSOLUTELY IS, and it's Survivors dragging it out), "well we shouldn't encourage leaving when there is a situation one finds unwinnable" (then why did we give Survivors an abandon mechanic at all as a bandaid fix for slugging into a bleedout?). Why make people stay in rounds they already lost? Why do people agreeing with the Devs, who could be wrong and misreading the way the community feels about this, want to make people stay in rounds they have lost instead of allowing a gentle concede option for those of us who just wanna forfeit gracefully? -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928121#Comment_3928121
Because the game isn't over yet. This is the huge disconnect and one of the biggest things in end game for the killer.
It's entirely possible to still get chases, hooks, even kills after the gens are completed. And that's the phase of the game that were talking about.
There are entire perks and builds dedicated to this concept, and at least one perk and build that completely relies on not just exit gates being powered, but open and the timer at least partially ticked down (blood warden).
The biggest difference here is that killers are the power role, and have tools to injure survivors and encourage or force them to behave differently. A survivor who works on a gen in the killer's face or stands in the exit gate after opening can be forced to stop doing that, base kit, by every killer. And the penalty for them continuing to do so is being injured, then downed, and potentially hooked, especially if they (or their team) makes a mistake in the process. Some killer's kits excel at this, as well as builds: people generally will not lurk around a slinger, tombstone Myers, or instadown (although there are absolutely clips of that also, and essentially free end-game kills).
I'll also point out that these tools do not exist the other way, survivors cannot force the killer to stop tunneling one person, or stop camping, or stop humping a slug for 4 minutes. There's no base kit "the killer can be forced into a state where they physically cannot do [that thing] anymore" for survivors. They can't force the killer to do anything, and at best they can make light suggestions with body blocks or perks (usually spending health states and potential gen time in the process) that the killer should maybe, please consider doing something else since this might be a barely less efficient use of time for them now.
End game, and specifically EGC is an opportunity for the killer, and a FAFO moment. You can try to bait someone out of the exit gate, you can injure, down, or possibly even instadown someone. It boggles my mind that we've gotten to a point that people think "gens are the objective" to such a degree that this equates to "gens are done, there's nothing else you can do, the game is over".
And even if you want to play the "I don't want to go see potential teabags" card: ok, you don't have to do that either. That's where the agency part of this comes into play. You can, absolutely, choose not to engage. But the match isn't over until everyone is out the gate or dead. This is an entire phase of the game that the killer has available to specifically lure survivors into overconfidence, and making last minute mistakes, that can absolutely still cost them the entire match.
I'm genuinely sorry that most people on these forums don't seem to see it that way, because that is a PvP element and mind game that people seem to just not understand in 2025 DbD for some reason.
For some of the weakest Killers in the game, the round essentially ends the second Survivors have done so well that they decide they want to sit in the gates and make you hit them out. I am not going to waste my times with going to the gates and shoving them out while they wait one pxiel away from the border so I will specifically hit them outand can't get them even if I manage a down. I would rather forfeit gracefully and move on unless I'm running endgame perks. For me, the round is over with the gate opening. Most of the Killers I play DON'T HAVE stuff to catch Survs in the endgame unless I run something like No Way Out. What are you expecting a Dredge to do at the end? What are you expecting Trapper to do at the end?
It isn't my job to enforce Survivors ending the game and moving on, it's everyone's job to move on for the sake of sportsmanship. I don't understand why some people seem to believe that Survivor side is exempt from this rule while Killer side can be screeched at for anything and everything even when they did nothing wrong to anyone in the round. I know this isn't the truth, but it does feel that way when we say Survivors should be able to escape griefing, but Killers have to "just take it" when it happens to them.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to force Survivors out of the gates because it just gives bad actors attention they want. I refuse to give anyone the satisfaction of rubbing it in when I lose. The last time I tried to "just hit them out", I was Sadako, and had a WHOLE TEAM come in to humiliate, taunt and bait me all round when I tried to give them the win while I practiced. I was rusty and trying to warm up again and got a team who decided to pretty much make my life as miserable as they could all round and then repeatedly, repeatedly bait me into trying to hit them out. They solely waited until the last second baiting me into trying to push them out and waited until the last possible second when I refused to, why? To rub their win in. To dunk on an M1 Killer on a map offering THEY brought (it was MacMillan's and we got the Mine map). They were so severely harassing and frustrating that I tried to AFK and they sat inside me demanifested. I left for half an hour and they waited to do all the gens and bait my hits for the 4 man out solely, solely so they could teabag at the end and call me a baby Killer for being rusty at Sadako. They were also horrendous to me in the endgame chat. It felt really, really, really bad.
That was one year ago and it felt so damn bad, I have not touched Sadako since. This incident made me stop playing a Killer I liked because it felt that bad. This sort of behavior from Survivors is demonstrably detrimental to the game and to the vibe of the community as a whole. It directly leads to Killers sweating more and refusing to play "weak" Killers. And it's not all that uncommon either.This is real. This stuff, while rare, happens. And it's not okay. It's never okay. It's NEVER OK to go into a round with the express desire to bully and harass people all round. Ever, ever, ever. And I shouldn't be expected to have to play the "just force them out' game to feed egos of people like these.
Screw "just hit them out". There's too many sore winners and bullies in this game that simply do not deserve that satisfaction. I'm not going to play at the end when this is all they actually want to do, and it's SHOCKING that the community expects anyone to. We don't tell Survivors to just ignore the griefing and let them do it. Why is it OK to tell Killer players this? Especially when the Survivor and Killer players are the same people? I'm a human being, I have thoughts and feelings and emotions, I just wanna play the game - none of that changes just because I'm the antagonist.
I don't really care if the Killer technically "has agency". I don't care if it "takes five seconds" to do this. I don't care what the Devs say about this being alright, they can be wrong, this is wrong. I don't care how powerful the Killer is. I care about the game feeling fun for everyone. It doesn't feel worth it as Killer to push anyone out of the gate or even go to the gate unless you have an endgame build or something that makes the gates dangerous, period end of. This isn't alright and it feels awful.For the sake of just simply removing a common nuisance that multiple people here have said they are bothered by, why on earth NOT just add some form of abandon if Survivors are sitting in the gate or in the match at the end not doing anything or clearly trying to harass the Killer player? Games shouldn't feel THIS BAD to lose and it shouldn't be on the player to be made to have their loss shoved in their face when it isn't expected of the other half. I just want to be able to forfeit gracefully if I lose for the sake of being a good sport, and I think a lot of us are in that same boat. It really is about good sportsmanship, and how it seems one side is expected to show it but not the other all. The. Time.
The way Killer players are sometimes treated by some Survivors is abysmal and not okay. We fixed the worst of it for Survivor but I am so incredibly sick and tired of people not treating Kller players the same, as if they're emotionless husks just because they're the antagonist role. Harassing someone all round when they clearly aren't playing well just to make them feel bad and then baiting them into "nah nah can't catch me" BS isn't funny, cute, or something anyone should put up with, it's done to cause rage and tilt people - that makes it griefing. This is griefing.
I will die on this hill - we need an Abandon feature to prevent this sort of scenario. It 100% feels exactly like being slugged for a four man bleedout and I don't care if toy think it's equal or not, that's what it feels like and that is all I care about fixing. This game should not be rewarding sore winners.
Find a shred of decency and dignity and kindness in your heart. If this stuff was happening to Survivors, you'd be mad. But because it's happening when that Survivor then shifts over to play Killer, it's sort of OK?
Make it make sense. -
Surprisingly, Ghostface feels really good to play in 2v8, he actually pairs quite well with several Killers and isn't Revealed as often as I was thinking he'd be. I'd actually say that Shroud Haste is so helpful and so good an idea, it should come to 1v4 - though not this much of it. Maybe like another 3-5%.
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I mean he seems fine to me… did we honestly think he was going to become A tier in 2v8?
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He does really well with speedy Killers, if you play him a bit more support.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927830#Comment_3927830
Or, as I told you already twice, you can hit them out.
The killer still has agency in this situation, and the base kit tools to resolve it. Especially since "hit them out" is also faster than your randomly chosen 1 minute.
The devs also told you this is the answer, so at this point I'm not sure what else to tell you.
Why is it my responsibility to end the game when there are four others who could end it as well?
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@katoptris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917517#Comment_3917517
You get pulled into a chest just like the locker grab.
And it will be like the Vecna mimics,
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926977#Comment_3926977
yeah but statistically the probability of the same person getting the same perk 4 games in a row, or a perk being on everygame is too low when we have that many survivor perks to draw from + its pretty rare to get doubles for some reason, so they are filtering in a way
For the game to get true randomness we HAVE to get a basis on the real world where there is chaos, like the machine that dos 24 hours dice throws or atmospheric noise
That's a possibility in a true random draw where perks do not repeat, it's not a glitch. It's rare but happens.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927616#Comment_3927616
All this post is asking is about when the exit gates are powered.
You're assuming it's things like tea bagging, but it could also be "that solo queue player waiting to make sure everyone is ok" and being a good sport and teammate. Or just "the end game", which already allows the killer to open the gates and trigger EGC.
Because, survivors simply finishing gens and powering the gates is not toxic, by itself.
This is true, so give them a minute to leave how about? You don't need to sit in the game for a full 2 minutes…
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I like the concept, I do not like:
- There are no glyph or character specific challenges anymore
- The weeklies are super easy one week and super specific another
- You can only skip 11 Quests if you wanna complete the Rift Progression Quests
- Quests are time-gated and some of them give badges and banners as prizes, causing FOMO
- Milestones feel grindy
- Kills and Escapes are a BAD METRIC for a Quest to follow, encouraging more sweat
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927590#Comment_3927590
"They can crawl around when slugged" which means…what? They can force the Killer out? They can kill the Killer? They can actually stop the Killer from humping them? Exactly what "agency" does crawling around provide? You have the ability to punish the Survivors for their "toxic" behavior, while Survivors do not have the ability to punish Killers for their "toxic" behavior.
Pushing Survivors out and potentially getting an extra kill is way more agency than what crawling around can provide.
But is the agency the Killer is given here doing anything other than drawing out a game that has already concluded?
Survivors do this and it's considered a draw. Killers want to do this but it's considered a forfeit and a loss. That does not feel fair no matter how you slice it.
I still don't see why it's a problem to simply allow a Killer to get on with a game they lost if Survivors can do that. What would it harm allowing people to gracefully forfeit and take a loss either side? -
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Not every killer needs to require a genius to play.
Also, hit and run is mostly a dead playstyle, so not sure how that's a problem.
I would understand if the argument was that it encourages brainlessly holding W, but making hit and run the base of your argument against him seems really shaky.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Asking for a character to be removed will almost always result in getting backlash. There are people that like that character and will defend them. They have any right to do so.
I personally dont think that Dredge is that insanely easy to play, especially when you have Killers like Ghoul and Legion in the game. Using the tp effecitvely and maximizing nightfall efficiency is nto so easy to do on a higher level. His anti loop also requires some thinking if survivors chose to leave / disrupt the remnant.
Hit and run might not be the most fun playstyle, but doing it effectively is a lot more skillful than brute forcing pallets and catching up with *some killers* for a free hit. Or lets be more precise, getting a hit completely for free (Legion, Ghoul).
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
While I agree that just downvoting and saying nothing isnt very useful (not a fan of the downvote system and I never use it)... I also just wanna point out that you haven't really said much of anything to justify/substantiate your claim...
"He is fundamentally flawed by taking bare minimum skill to play and be encouraged to hit and run"... skill is its own topic (I'm a believer that skill in DBD is more than just mechanical skill, macro skill, build construction and map knowledge are just as important skills in their own right), but you haven't qualified why hit and run is such a problem to be considered "fundamentally flawed".
Doesn't this also count for Legion? Wraith? Sadako? Are all these killers also fundamentally flawed since they too are taking bare minimum mechanical skill to play? Cause I can't realistically see a justification for gutting Dredge and not all of these killers as well if we follow this line of reasoning; and I think not many would agree these killers are in a position they should be gutted.
Not to mention numerous other killers have the mobility to also play hit and run effectively if they choose to. Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Wesker, Unknown, Ghoul, Freddy, etc, etc. These killers generally have higher lethality so tend to prefer to close out chases instead of play hit and run, but they are absolutely capable of doing so, and while some of them take more skill than Dredge, I'd argue that Spirit, Freddy, Ghoul or Unknown are not really any harder to play than Dredge... debatably easier.
So for any discussion to be meaningful you need to clarify your argument... because without a tangible point, this does sound a little "I don't like Dredge because he can hit and run... so nerf him pl0x", hence likely why you've been ratio'd.
Guys? This person has also stated in an earlier thread about possibly buffing Ghostface they think stealth Killers are "faceroll gameplay" because they "are too easy" when you have to actually be very good at macro to play as a stealth Killer, especially at higher levels. They aren't here to argue in good faith, they don't like any Killers, they have a track record of this. Ignore/block them and move on.
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I don't think Dredge is in any way weak as it is, but maps are the big issue. The best thing they could do to buff Dredge is just add more lockers to maps.
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This is 100% the biggest issue I have with this game right now. Not Killers, not the tunnel slug camp stuff, not even unfair maps. Survivor teammates not doing their job.
The other day I had a Renato sit and cling to a BRAND NEW UNTOUCHED gen while my friend and I were dying on hook. Literally watched my friend go to third hook because Renato wanted to finish his Gen repair Quest more than he wanted to try and help us reset. Against a not very good Nurse.Yeah. I quit the game for the night after that.
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I like to make thematic builds for every Survivor. So I don't have a favorite build!
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I would like it to have pips but I don't think it's going to happen.
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I miss Old BBQ and Chili… :(
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927290#Comment_3927290
the difference in this case, is that survivors can do nothing about the being in dying state, however the killer can do a lot to force survivors out of the match.
Respectfully Mandy, why is the onus on the Killer to force Survivors who refuse to leave or are hiding to force the Killer to wait the EGC out, out of the match? Why does the Killer have to be the arbiter of this, beholden to a Survivor who is hiding around the map and MAKING them stay for the entire two minute collapse? Why are we giving one side the option to give up if the Killer refuses to hook, but not giving it to the other if the Suvivors refuse to leave, even though both obviously are done to irritate the other side?
It feels BAD to be slugged for four minutes. It feels BAD to be forced to wait an entire 2 minutes. It feels BAD to be on the receiving end of a loss and having the other side rub it in your face. And you and I both know Survivors sit in the gates very often just to make the Killer watch them leave, that doesn't feel good."The Killer can do a lot?" Tell me what a Killer with low mobility is intended to do against Survivors who sit at the butt edge of the gate and taunt. Tell me what a Killer who can't traverse a large map easily is intended to do when Survivors hide in it JUST to stall the endgame out as long as possible. How is Trapper supposed to get points for that and why does he have to be the one to do it? Shouldn't the Survivors, who have already clearly won and are ONLY doing this to mock the Trapper, just leave? Why is it the Killer's job to do this, what if the Killer just wants to gracefully concede and move on?
If I do not have to watch the Killer slug me for a full bleedout while I crawl around, I should not have to force Survivors out or play "hide and seek" for 2 minutes because they want to make me stay in the match longer. It's very simple. Just make this change, I don't understand why you and the other Devs seem to believe Killer players are okay with having to be mocked by sore winners. It really makes you and the team look as though you don't CARE about the Killer experience saying that, which I know isn't true.If you and the Devs care about Killers, you will implement this because this is what the community has been asking for ever since the Abandon feature happened. Please just give us what we're asking for.
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I just would rather more casual quests. I'm fine with the milestones, I'm fine with extra stuff from the events and modes, I'm fine with the dailies, I just want more variety and more than five a week… and less of stuff that requires me to skillshot.
When I say I'm trash with flashlights? I mean I am really trash, I can't even aim it when they're hooking. It's not really at all how I play Survivor so I never learned it. I suck at it. :( -
@Abbzy said:
Just hoping if they add ghoustface they will buff him properly, he is super bad against many survivors. If not he will become maybe worde than nemesis in this mode.
Hope the surv blood points bonus will be at least 400% and exp bunus will be there to.
He is being added and he did get buffs. However none of them were removing Reveal. He'll be fine though, I think - He's getting haste in Shroud, faster stalk, and faster power cooldown. However Exposed lasts 30 seconds instead of 60.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927217#Comment_3927217
The abandon feature doesn't prevent you getting humped on the ground for 4 minutes if there's even one survivor standing.
While I don't think toxicity has a place, you have agency and options as the killer while the 2 minute timer ticks. It is possible to force survivors to make a mistake and get a kill, let alone blood warden, which is a literal win condition that requires exit gates to be open.
And the reason people say to "hit them out" is because does exactly what you want: it stops the behavior, and they have to leave. I get that it doesn't make it less frustrating sometimes, but the option you're demanding here already exists.
And it's an option, because you can hit them out, you can go get BP around the map and take solace in knowing they're literally just wasting their own time, or you can go grab a drink.
The big thing people don't seem to want to acknowledge is that "go grab a drink" is the only option for a slug, for 4 minutes. Abandon is great if the conditions are met, but it's not hard to slug for the 4k to bypass it. You don't get to ignore it or earn BP, and you can't "force an error" to somehow escape from that situation.
These two scenarios are not equivalent, the only common point is BM, and there's no real solution to that. At least not a solution that the devs can implement. It's 100% a player mentality issue on both sides of the problem. And sometimes that will require you to step away from the game for a bit of its too frustrating (although, expecting a mature response is exactly the player mentality in taking about here).
It is still a double standard to say "Survivors may quit when the Killer is a Sore Winner but Killers can't quit when Survivors are sore winners."
And frankly that's what this boils down to. You either agree toxicity and griefing needs to go, or you're for toxic griefing. I don't care if the player "has options", they shouldn't have to put up with it to start with. -
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927190#Comment_3927190
The problem with the size of Gideon is, that certain killer powers don't care about elevation. Against Sadako, the whole map becomes a death box every time you TP to a TV. Doctor can almost shock the entire map every single time he uses it, making survivors be in an endless loop of madness. Surge always hits at least 2 gens.
Midwich is a bit bigger, making it less problematic in comparison.
That's 100% an issue as well.
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@EinRaikou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927191#Comment_3927191
They do have a separate category for those. It's called the Milestone and Daily quests.
Also, to OPs comment... you still have the option of 'skipping' the missions you don't want to do. Unlike the old tome missions, you aren't forced to complete some to continue progression. Also unlike the tome missions, which sometimes felt like you had to go out of my way to complete, so far Week 1 and 2 of the new system are progressing for me just by playing the game.
I truly can't understand foks having this many complaints about a system that seems vastly improved toward a casual play experience.
You can only skip 11 of the Rift Quests, otherwise you can't complete the "do rift quests" ones.
"Do three quests this week" does not count things like Dailies or the Milestones, shouldn't it for more flexibility?
Milestones require significant grinding and the Dailies are the exact same three every time. Don't you get bored?
This system works, but it's not as fun.
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Ghostface has this same issue with Reveal. I've seen some casual Ghostface players say that "unable to Reveal in chase" would be a good change.
No it would not, for the same reason removing Staredown in chase would be awful. You NEED to be able to counter a Killer's power, and on Unknown especially it can easily teleport quickly anywhere and everywhere on the map as long as a Hallucination is there. If we remove Staredown in chase, we give Unknown the ability to keep EVERYONE poisoned at all times and unable to remove it if the Unknown simply harasses them hard enough or tunnels hard enough.
The same as would occur on Ghostface if he couldn't be Revealed in chase - it would make him a tunnel powerhouse and would not be fun, plus always make a chase with him so risky the best option would be hiding… against a Killer that gets free info for being Revealed.
That is awful game design. A reduction of either is warranted, but removal is a bad idea.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926865#Comment_3926865
how you can be so wrong is almost impressive, I don’t play killer as much as I used to and I think map offerings shouldn’t exist since they take away the randomness of dbd
Some people are heavily biased, they exist on both sides. It seems you have found one of them.
One day they may grow up, play both sides, and realize the issue is twofold… but not today.