LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931812#Comment_3931812
i mean killer instinct for most killers is something that happens after someone gets hit/downed and it's not really a perk
I need to address the elephant in the room here: people complaining about parts of a Killer power designed to give info, i.e. Killer Instinct. If it's part of the power, then it's balanced because it's part of the power, and therefore CANNOT be "unfair". Killer powers are designed to be fair. Let's look at when and where some Killers get this, and why:
- Ghostface gets Killer Instinct whenever he is revealed so he can chase the Survivor that did it. This is because Revealing is part of his counter, and without it Survivors could hide and he'd never know where the person revealing him is. There's even addons that exist to capitalize on being revealed (which means no, it's not a bug or downside pr a problem at all - it's a feature and a good Ghostface will use this feature as a tool; he's supposed to occasionally be revealed).
- Sadako gets her Killer Instinct when a Survivor nearby is ready to be Mori'd by the Condemn mechanic, particularly when they put a tape in the TV. This is to help guide her to someone she can chase and then reward her if she gets the Down for using her power properly.
- Dredge gets Killer Instinct during Nightfall whenever someone is close to a locker or their remnant in Nightfall. This helps the Dredge find Survivors they can chase during Nightfall, when they might be more vulnerable, giving them the element of surprise. Killer Instinct is notably not blocked by lockers, so this may be intended to also show when a Survivor is opening or getting into or locking a locker.
- Legion gets their Killer Instinct during Feral Frenzy to help guide them to Survivors nearby (within TR range) to hit and continue their streak. This is an intended part of their play and meant to eventually reward them with a free one hit down if they manage to chain five (though that's quite rare).
- Pinhead has Killer Instinct with a special overlay that tells him whenever someone is solving the Box, so he can teleport to it and interrupt it if he wants, either to juggle the Box for a Chain Hunt streak or as information to find a new Survivor. This is the counterplay to the Survivors being able to do the Box.
- Twins gets Killer Instinct whenever Victor is out and there are any Survivors moving around or in the Dying State within Victor's Lullaby range, which is intended to help them find Survivors for Victor to pounce on or any Survivors that crawled away, since Victor is very tiny and has a low camera.
- Demogorgon gets Killer Instinct when a Survivor is close to a portal. Pyramid Head gets it when someone walks over his Torment Trail. Both are meant to indicate to the player either where they can find a Survivor to chase, or where someone who can be sent to a Cage of Atonement or Mori'd is.
So as you can see, Killer Instinct is completely fine and fair, because it's always used as a mechanic to aid the Killer towards getting into new chases or providing some power based benefit or reward. It's not cheap or wallhacks since it only lasts a few seconds, and it's certainly not something unbalanced that needs to be counterable, especially because we all know what Survivors tend to like to do if they cannot shake the Killer in chase themselves - hide and hope for hatch. It is ALWAYS meant to make playing Killer much less frustrating or provide information on who to chase next. It's usually because the Killer does not have a super strong chase power either, or has mobility but no way to tell info while in the mobility option.
Edit: You can downvote me for this take, but it doesn't make Killer Instinct less fair. A Killer Power that is balanced, and most every Killer is balanced, cannot be inherently unfair. You are not supposed to be hiding from the Killer easily all round, mid chase, or any other time. The Killer is intended to chase you, info helps with that. If Iri Keys with blood amber are fine, so is Killer Instinct.
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@DeBecker said:
Survivors arent allowed to have variety in their gameplay.
Killers are really not allowed variety in their perks either, why do you think generator control/regression/hold is so popular? Because generators can go faster than some Killers can even patrol the map. In fact half the roster has no actual form of a mobility power. Even some with mobility powers can struggle. Generator perks often feel necessary for a Killer player to bring. That's why you always see the same four or five of them over and over.
Now start questioning why Killer players may feel the need to bring these perks - it's not because they want to make Survivors miserable or just to win, it's because quite often these perks do feel necessary on some Killers especially if you're not as good at them yet. So therefore, no variety for perks, and no variety for Killers either. Nobody gets to have any fun.
Oh and look. Downvoted for telling the truth again. I will continue to be downvoted for saying things people do not want to hear, whatever helps you all feel better I guess. The truth is still that Killers are just trying to play a game, not make Survivors miserable. No Killer player loads up the game rubbing their hands together going, "I am going to make someone DC tonight!".
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@TheSingleQuentinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931840#Comment_3931840
I used to agree with that…but I've been sort of rethinking it lately. A lot of killer have organic slowdown, which is where a survivor ultimately has a choice in the matter, like Singularity's Bio pods and how survivor can go print EMPs in exchange for giving the killer more time. There are also killer who have powers that almost directly work around generators, such as Nightmare's Gen teleport, the Pig's RBT activating after gen completion, and to a less direct extent, Sadako's TV's being placed right by Generators.
I don't think the License Add on should be made base kit. But let's say somehow or another, without making a new side objective based killer, if I came up with an idea where Ghostface had a basekit power that gives him pretty direct gen regression, but one that survivors somehow have agency over, would you be against it?
Ghostface actually does have an addon that gives "basekit" gen regression and block if he marks someone on a Generator, it's the Driver's License addon as you pointed out. The Survivors also scream so they have no control over it. I don't frankly think Survivors SHOULD be able to have agency over a Killer's power too much, there's counters and then there's Plague on release where she could functionally never get her power if Survivors never cleansed.
@Akumakaji said:
My fix to slow M1 killers was a proposed buff to Insidious, which would help them a lot, just as STFL did in the past:
Insidious: after hooking a survivor, the killer can press the secondary activation button to step inside the shadow of the hook and emerge from a shadow or unobserved corner at least 16m away from the survivor with the least amount of hooks. The killers terror radius is suppressed for 7s after teleporting and the survivors aura is revealed to the killer for 3s. In order to qualify as a teleporter target the survivor needs to be at least 24m away from the hooked survivor.
That's actually a really cool idea, we could always give Ghostface that basekit. He's supposed to be a Killer that uses the shadows after all.
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@Sadotaku002 said:
I've been enjoying 2v8 a lot, i do have a small issue when playing Wesker though. Occasionally when I grab someone against a wall, me and the survivor get stuck while they're on my shoulder before the entity takes them. There was one match I had to dc because the match never ended. It was me, the other killer and the survivor that was stuck on my shoulder. It was a little upsetting because you get nothing from disconnecting but it's whatever. I don't know what causes it but other than that, I've been really enjoying 2v8.
This appears to be a known glitch, I think there's a thread on it too.
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@TheTom20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932127#Comment_3932127
Yeah i keep getting sent to azarvov or McMillian or badham so i have to run sac ward pretty much every game but sometimes they still get the map they wanted anyway
I'm so glad the Devs plan to change map offerings. Would rather have them removed though.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931409#Comment_3931409
But... Huntress's hatchets, Dracula's fire, Nemesis's tentacle, and Pyramid's judgment of the damned all go through vaults basically instantly, hence why you should avoid getting stuck in an animation whenever these killers are readying their M2 attack.
Pinhead's chains, sometimes Slinger's gun, and Trickster's knives do this too. Some Killers it's better to hide against than loop.
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Part of me wonders if this whole debacle comes from just not being able to articulate very well, or some attempt to balance Survivor side MMR because it works different to Killer MMR - All Survivors share one MMR, whereas all Killers share a Killer MMR but also have their own, so if you do really well as say Blight, that not only makes your Blight games harder but games for all the other Killers slightly harder too even if you have never touched them. I think that's problematic in a game where all the Killers are so vastly different from each other that some of them blatantly cannot handle and are not designed to handle the same Survivors Blight can.
If the Devs are in fact doing this by making Survivor abandonment a Draw but Killer abandonment a Loss, in an attempt to skyrocket really, truly good Survivors who win too much out of the range of Killers that can't handle them, then it's a really tone deaf way to do it and a really poorly implemented system. But then, MMR was never actually balanced, which is why so many believe it truly does not exist. Hell, not long ago I faced a p100 Day One Pinhead and my poor casual team was not ready for that level of aggressive box-juggling, we're just not on that level and don't frankly want to play at that level, because it's not any fun for us. If you ask me, MMR just shouldn't exist either - except for the weakest of the weak and strongest of the strong, so babies and ubertiers do not go anywhere close to against each other.
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What frustrates me as a Killer? Four things:
- Survivors who clearly came into the round to hardcore sweat with the roughest possible combo of perks items and teamwork possible. You will still only win 40% of your games, sweating more does not improve your odds on that and it just annoys the Killer player into playing even harder. Sweating more also will just boost your MMR until you get only the top S tier Killers E V E R Y round, and trust me - as someone who used to sweat that ahrd on Killer back at 500 hours, you do not want to do that in this game. Chill out, just try to do your best, if you're better you will probably win with or without these stacked af things. You don't need to sweat on either side to do well at DBD. If you do want to sweat all over me, I can and will simply forfeit by standing in a corner so you can have your win. Enjoy your round of Generator Sim.
- Survivors who clearly are only here to have fun at my expense with builds that aren't strong but ARE annoying - think your sabo squads or flashlight teams here. Again, I can and will throw if you want to do this to me so all you have is Generator Sim. I run a lot of the M1 Killers including a few of the weaker ones, I just like them. I despise it when people purposefully try to take advantage of me playing "a weak Killer" and falsely assume I'm not good enough to just slug them all or destroy them anyway when I'm actually just super nice and prefer to play very fair. This is because they would rather try to bully what they think is a baby Killer than actually improve at the game. Get out of everyone's lobbies, there is no need or room for people who want to make this game more frustrating than it already can be on purpose, you're pathetic and you do not deserve a round from me. Go find another game to play.
- Killers with powers that have a windup or collision concerns. I cannot play Wesker, Billy, Demo, or Oni anymore because the collision angers me. I cannot play Huntress, Xenomorph, or some other M2s because the windup speed feels like trash without certain addons. It's just not fun to me. When I press the button I expect my power to just work, not take 3-5 business days to warm up. When I press the button, I expect my attack to eventually hit, not to get juked out of power by hitting something and punished with a stun because of a massive hitbox colliding with a stray pixel. This seriously tilts me so much I have to shut the game off.
- When Survivors won't just leave. No, I am not coming to the gates to push you out or entertain your dumb little buttwave dance, I am not giving you the satisfaction because it's like a toddler doing something obnoxious on purpose to get attention from mom. You won, move on, what more do you want? A cookie? It's not my job to give you a cookie, it's my job to kill you. My end of the deal is over the second you cross that threshold into the open gates. The game is over, I am doing more important things like kicking pallets, you really do NOT need me to see you leave, I don't care. Just move on, because just like the toddler begging me for candy in the supermarket after they already got a toy they wanted, I'm not giving you the attention and I am not letting you get your buttdance satisfaction, it's childish and dumb. Grow up.
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Please also consider - there are Killers in this game that appear to tunnel because they can't afford to go too far away from where Survs are, because they may lack mobility. Not because they want to tunnel someone out from the word go. They're simply built to take advantage of Survivor weakpoints, not to rapidly traverse the map like others. That's not the player's fault, that's kinda how they're built to play.
In fact, hardcore toxic tunnelling out from the word go on purpose is actually fairly rare. 9/10 times the Killer isn't tryign to make the game misery for you, you're just there and they want to chase. If they're anything like me or most people here who play Killer, there truly is no hard feelings and no toxicity meant by focusing a weak link, or focusing the person close to death at one gen, or punishing someone in a bad position.
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@TheSingleQuentinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931216#Comment_3931216
So like, what about 5% haste when Night Shroud is active and not being looked at, kind of like the Fearmonger class in 2v8? This way his haste isn't a buff without a counterplay to it.
That's exactly what he needs, but when I point it out I get swarmed by Survivors downvoting because a 5% haste with Shroud would mean he's not as loopable anymore, despite that change having counterplay.
He literally JUST needs haste. -
I will say the same thing I did in the last thread.
Either we allow everyone to do it or nobody should do it, and it should 100% be a loss for the side that does it. Not a draw.
This feature should only exist if there is parity. The BM situation is bad enough. Survivors got their concerns about Killer BM addressed, why don't Killers ever get theirs addressed? And why is it a loss if the Killer forfeits but a draw if the Survivors forfeit when a forfeit is a loss you choose to take for the sake of sportsmanship?
EDIT: They are making Go Next and abandons done to Go Next a Loss for Survivors in the next patch. You can stop downvoting me for this suggestion now. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931267#Comment_3931267
No, it is the absolute right thing to say. Because people try to frame those outliers as the rule, which is just not true. The "against good Survivors"-"argument" is just so overdone. People pick that one game they lost very hard and claim that a Killer needs buffs, despite them winning the 9 other games this evening.
And yet we dont see Killers admit that a Killer might need Nerfs, if they dominate and get a 4K with 5 Gens up. Which is most of the time an outlier as well, but yet then it is suddenly their own skill which made that and not matchmaking or anything.
I play Dracula too. I absolutely will admit he may need a couple small tweaks here and there. I have played Blight and Nurse in the past, Blight is fine if strong but Nurse definitely needs a power rework or a decent nerf. I just dunno what would be fair at this point.
I agree, the "But Good Survivors" line just no longer holds any water in 2025. Not enough Survs are actually good; are you getting your 60% Killrate on average? Yes? Then you're fine. it's why I don't believe Pig or Ghostface, both brought up in the thread, need seriously large buffs of any kind, just tweaks to make them play a little better, both are genuinely fine.
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To be fair both sides have this. Are Iri Keys with Blood Amber that fair? Not really. Is four aura read Blight fair? Not really. Will BHVR address this? No…
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@UsherGod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930919#Comment_3930919
I think people just like playing against killers that they can express their skill against. It’s why Hillbilly, Bubba, and Oni are widely considered fun to face
We currently have a creator who's coined the term "Dashslop" about Killers with easy instant downs and ability to push across the map super fast, Bubba withstanding both Billy and Oni would qualify. Most people don't actually have fun with those Killers, they use them to slug. Which isn't fun.
Personally I would rather face a Nurse or a Pinhead or even a Legion than another slugging Bubba, Billy, or Oni, and I think I'm not the only person like that. In my experience they are never going for the actual skillshot aspect of their powers, they just slug. And they usually try to do it at 4-5 gens left. -
I personally like trying to dodge the whip, so to me Nemmy is fun to go against.
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Personally I just like to watch and make content that's about having fun in DBD, showing the game for what it is - a tag game that is supposed to be a mini horror film and seeing how well you can do in it. I would rather watch tense games ending in a draw, near win, or near loss than a stomp every single time.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931404#Comment_3931404
unfortunately dbd players are like that, if the new character isn't easy to play and doesn't have an easy way to down survs they already assume that the character is bad, look at kaneki for example, when he launched he was very strong, now that the nerfs have come, and he is no longer so free, they already assume that he has become bad, but in fact it is the same for those who are good
This is the sort of Killer design that Pixel Bush termed "dashslop", and it's genuinely ruining DBD - for lower tier Killer Mains, for Survivors, for anyone who likes variety, and for the fun of the game overall. It's not good. It's just not good design. It was fine when it was just Nurse and Blight, but it's gotta stop. It truly has to stop. The game cannot keep just adding more Killers with super strong kits that don't reward skillful play, something has to give. Either these Killers need an actual decent nerf, or the weaker Killer choices need strong buffs, but this can't stay this way.
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I can't help but agree. The issue is the free BS hit nonsense, NOT his leap and NOT his pallet shredding or mobility.
He's very cool, his ability is cool, he feels great to play as and his general conceptual design is very neat. But this is poor Killer power design. Free hits and power cancelling mid power should not happen this easily. As Dredge I can't pause mid teleport and go around to find someone with aura reading lit up. As Ghostface if I swing my knife, I lose my Shroud. As Pig I can't half-ambush or headtrap someone trying to vault a pallet forcing them to pause. As Doctor, my shock doesn't create such a long pause it's basically free hinder. Kaneki does all this, it's not OK.
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Hi, still basically only playing Ghostface and Nemesis in 2v8 because they're the only two I find fun in 2v8.
Can confirm Ghostface still has a bug where occasionally his Reveal will be so long it sounds like the THX noise, did his Reveal timer get adjusted, is this a ping issue, or is this something to do with server validation? It happens both sides. It's driving me insane. In a few short days of dealing with this I already have so lost my mind that I want to go gut someone by the name of Sidney Prescott like a fish while phone-stalking people, sanity dwindling, please fix. -
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931201#Comment_3931201
Okay my bad, you're just completely making up numbers instead of relying on nightlight - only other place to come up with updated kill rates for every killer since BHVR hasn't. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt of pulling from something legitimate, but just making it up entirely, well, that's just something else. Only thing we've gotten officially recently was a very select cherry picked few.
BHVR has given their own stats on kill rates many times, the numbers are not being pulled from anywhere.
Go look on this site for where. They just released killstats for Freddy and a few others. In all cases the rates are around 60%. Do your research I am not your teacher.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930795#Comment_3930795
When I talk about whether or not a killer is good, of course I’m talking about win rate. And when you admit that other killers are “less of a challenge” and “easy wins”, you’re admitting those killers are better than Ghostface.
I honestly don’t care if you have screenshots of winning as Ghostface. I never said his win rate is 0%. I never said higher tier killers ALWAYS do better than lower tier killers.
And the proof that you aren’t high MMR, is the fact that you don’t care that much about winning. The whole point of MMR is to separate the try hard players that break the intended kill rate, from the more casual players. Being at high MMR means you very likely care a lot about your invisible MMR number.
Players can be at average MMR and still be good at the game. But if you aren’t trying as hard as possible to maximize your kill rate, then you’re not breaking the intended kill rate enough to be in high MMR.
And you are cherrypicking my words to make YOUR point.
No. I mean exactly what I typed, I didn't make any "admissions" about anything and I definitely didn't say anything about Killers being bad or good. I did not once say that easy wins are a good thing, they are not. Easy wins are bad, bad, BAD game design because then a Killer has no challenge, if you can get an easy win every time where is the game? Nowhere. You're reaching for things I never said an trying to act like I said one thing but meant another. I said what I said - that those Killers are not challenging enough once mastered and can crank out free wins against the average Survivor so well, it's basically just a curbstomp. That's not good, that's bad. You are not supposed to be able to trip and fall into wins.
Besides, who is actually out here caring about winrate in 2v8? Nobody. Your entire point is moot.
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I play both Ghostface and Pig, at a decent enough level to get decent Survivors too.
Both are pretty alright as is, the real issues come down to two different causes:
- Pig's time management. If she can't get her traps out she can't really pressure the map and that is a huge issue. This stems often from being an M1 Killer despite her dash. I'd like to see her maybe get some crouch speed or crouched movement speed add-ons or tweaks. Maybe something to make the boxes take longer.
- Ghostface's lack of any map mobility. Just give him Haste in Shroud like 2v8 (but obviously not 10%), change a few add-ons, and maybe give him more forgiveness about his Reveal especially around loops. If he's not on the screen of the Survivor or is fully behind line of sight blockers, he shouldn't be getting Revealed PERIOD.
Do these two really need any big buffs? No. But minor tweaks like what I suggested? Sure, it might improve them to play as a bit. I think both are in a relatively healthy place as is.
Edit: Downvoting me does not change the fact that Pig struggles with mobility and time management, Ghostface's biggest issue is mobility, and both are still fairly healthy anyway. You don't need to be A or S tier to be in a good spot.
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These are all exactly not what he needs, he's fine with Shroud as is. Shroud is not the problem.
The issue is he has no map mobility and his antiloop is just mindgaming with Night Shroud. That CAN work for some players but not everyone.The solution is to give him some haste while in Shroud like 2v8 does, make his Reveal less finicky (they have), and adjust some addons. Nothing else is the problem, his issue is Map Mobility and being a basic M1 Killer. You can't fix the latter but you can fix the former.
EDIT: Downvoting me does not make it less correct that he needs map mobility. Just give the Shroud Haste. It's the simplest fix in the world.
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Give the lowest tiers something to help with mobility, antiloop, or both if the focus is now gonna be on Dashslop Killer type powers anyway with stronger perks to handle them; this should have been done ages ago.
Balance and standardize items and addons for both sides to be more fair.
Eliminate stacking too much regression OR progression for generators - cap it at 25% faster or slower max, no more than that.
New items for Survivors to unlock and use in the Bloodweb PLEASE.
Bring Lights Out back every so often, but only the more balanced 2.0 version of it.
No more offerings, items, or add-ons allowed in Chaos Shuffle. Those are randomized now and only points offerings are allowed, others are banned.
New modes. LESS Chaos Shuffle when you don't know what else to throw at us to entertain us until the next chapter or event.
DO NOT design new events around testing a prototypical element like the Blood Gens were, that's not fun for everyone - do that in a PTB and just do something that is more equal for everyone.
Parity in the Abandon feature - either add Abandon options for Killers if the round is clearly not winnable anymore and Survivors will not take their win with grace and leave (or worse hide at the end), or make it so that any Abandon for both sides counts as either a loss or a draw for that side period end of. No more saying Killers lose if they Abandon but Survivors draw, that isn't fair.
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@Shroompy said:
Its important to note as well that theres a difference between tunneling somebody right from the beginning of the match, and going for some one who was just unhooked and is putting themselves in a really bad position, especially when comparing it to the person saving them.
Lets say Meg was just unhooked and runs into a deadzone and Dwight just saved her and is running towards shack, the better play is to go for the Meg. How ever if you flip whos running where then its best to go for the Dwight.
Being able to recognize who its best to go for is a skill in of it self, and theres no shame in doing it as its 100% a mistake on the Survivors part
This is true and the OP is also right. There is a time and place to focus a Survivor, you need to do this tactically. The less mobility or antiloop a Killer has, the more you have to do this.
I personally never outright tunnel on purpose. But if someone makes a mistake or I happen to find the same person twice, sorry. You're going back on the hook, I'm not doing it to be mean but you have to learn to not put yourself in bad positions or heal under hooks and stuff somehow.
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Yes. I used to play Legion a lot, I started on Legion.
In Feral Frenzy, if Legion gets four consecutive hits the fifth will instant down. In 2v8, it's seven consecutive hits with the eighth being instant down. But it is super rare to get this to happen. -
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930810#Comment_3930810
Nightlight isn't BHVRs data - thats people self reporting, and not many are going to bother reporting their own losses. We have not had an offical updated breakdown for all killers in some time. There's a reason for that. It's also clear to see my statement is true. Every recent killer has had some sort of mobility/dash feature built into their kit, though houndmasters was in the form of a dog dash - at least they tried to be creative on that one. Springtrap will likely have one, as well.
Please read what I actually typed, I never said anything about Nightlight.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930788#Comment_3930788
i'm not talking about caring about what your true MMR is (ranks would just be close representation) but actually being matched against other people with the same "i play to win" mindset that actually want to play with people of similar skill level rather than pubstomping with the current state of matchmaking.
And i'm not talking about 5v5 where you are literally playing 5v5 in one match, i am talking about 1v4 between killer from team A and survivors from team B and vice versa which works with every killer because ourcome of matches on that level are determined by gens repaired, fresh hooks and hooks in general when same killer is played by both teams.
Just saying that not all of us have fun stomping players in a matchmaking that barely exists.
I can see wanting a similar caliber of player if you're sick of Pubs being too easy. But in that case, aren't there Scrims communities?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930796#Comment_3930796
Rude, the three of us are definitely crazy. It makes life interesting. But good to know it takes more time than that, thx.
Oh, my apologies… in that case all three of you are certifiably insane. :)
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930586#Comment_3930586
That is incorrect. You used to get Rift fragments from leveling up, you no longer do.
You actually still do, you get 5. It's not enough though.
EDIT: Just checked. You get five per round as long as there are challenges to complete, which isn't great but also isn't the hell people are saying it is. -
@RpTheHotrod said:
He's a no mobility m1 killer. They've been slowly phasing them out of the game for a while. The focus in modern dbd is to expect all killers to have some sort of mobility and balance around the assumption that eventually people will only play killers with mobility. Survivors will get more haste to stay competitive vs all the mobility and so on. Eventually, the old-school m1 killers will effectively no longer exist.
If that's happening and that's true, why are Killers like Trapper still holding a 60% on average success rate across all MMR levels according to BHVR's own data?
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@Neaxolotl said:
Pretty sure those who do great with current kaneki can do lot better with any other better mobility killers
Pretty sure those great with Kaneki are decent enough at Killer in general to do well even without playing a Mobility Killer.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929485#Comment_3929485
While we're not entirely sure if the mechanic is actually gone or not, doesn't it take like 10 seconds of the killer being there? Legion came and went before the teleport would have set off.
You're not crazy - it always needed the Killer to be there for quite some time, and it never activated if Survs were nearby. That's always how it worked.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930404#Comment_3930404
That’s exactly why he’s not good in 2v8. Why should I pick a character that can struggle with certain teammates and struggle with certain maps, when I could just pick someone like Blight, that is always good with everything?
There is a big risk with picking a character with lower mobility (Ghostface is still lower mobility, even with Fearmonger), because if your teammate is also lower mobility, then the killers might lose just because they don’t move fast enough to have good map pressure.
It's 2v8. 2v8 is not a mode about winning. Why are you trying to dominate at 8 gens in 2v8?
He can win just fine anyway. I posted proof of me keeping up with a Wesker AND a Billy. A Billy. I get decent Survivors that know what a loop is, know what pressure is, do gens, and actually try. Consistently. These are in my lobbies with people at my MMR level relatively, this isn't just bad Survivors here.Respectfully friend, maybe you just constantly play at such a high level, all you get are megaSWFs? Because against 99% of everyone I and all the players I know who tried him, he's fine. Perhaps he's not someone you play often? That would explain it if you just never really play Stealth Killers, maybe you don't know how to use him well and that's OK. Or maybe Stealth play isn't your strong suit. None of this is meant to insult you in any way by the way, I'm just spitballing for why you may be struggling to handle a Killer like this, especially if you only play Blight… if you do, maybe you just are not very good at M1 chase? Ghostface requires you to be good at M1 chase.
But it's certainly not his kit. If he's not good, then it's because he's not good for you. Nobody else I know has issues with him in 2v8.
Besides… why would I pick the easy mashed potato option over something that has more risk, challenge, and possibility of losing? I like my games to have challenge. I do not get challenged with Blight. I just stomp everyone and get bored. I'm kinda surprised you don't get tired of easy wins…
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@theblimp said:
Just remove being forced to go to locked locker, .ake it a 50/50 for the dredge
Arguably a 50/50 shot would be a lot more interesting for both sides…
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929985#Comment_3929985
Haha, thank you! I arguably haven't played killer in months (I prefer playing survivor, so I haven't touched killer in a while) but I think I analyze the game on a fundamental level. 🥲
I like to look at all the killers having potential pros and cons, with counterplay for each killer. Like we've mentioned, Onryo can catch up to a survivor who has used exhaustion as she can quickly shift between manifest/demanifest. Dredge suffers a lot here as obviously they can't keep creating remnants over and over to close down a loop, meaning he suffers here a little more. He can teleport to a locker and sometimes lose even more distance at times too. It's not excessive, but you understand my point that it is noticeable.
I do feel like when I played killer, I recognized bad behaviors survivors do -- for example, survivors who excessively try to get a gen done without recognizing that there are other gens to do, there are gens nearby that you can work on... Instead of going down for the same gen over and over. Another factor is simply walking away to avoid leaving scratch marks to throw the killer off, which is definitely a lost art for some survivors.
So, playing both roles allowed me to analyze the game a bit better, even if I have way more hours in survivor gameplay. Survivor gameplay allows people to obviously pick up on these things and learn counterplay too. 😊
I think for Wraith, Ghostface, and Dredge - the reasoning is mainly lack of mobility (even though I'd argue Wraith is mobile, as they can traverse the map, bodyblock, and close down loops with timing of uncloaks). Ghostface is a bit harder to do, especially with being broken out of stealth and mindgaming, but a Ghostface who knows how to hide their red stain excels. Dredge, like I mentioned in the above . People typically opt for higher mobility killers as they have higher lethality → Blight (rushing and speed allows for more snowballing), Nurse (bypassing pallets, map traversal, and potential snowballs), Hillbilly (high map traversal and potential to one shot with a timed curve), Kaneki (high mobility, the biting mechanic, the ability to bodyblock ((similar to a Wraith)), and snowball potential).
Dredge suffers a bit from snowball potential unless survivors are clustered together, hence the hit and run playstyle, while Wraith is similar here to Dredge. Same for Ghostface again, unless the survivors are clustered and being able to be marked and downed continually.
This is also why I try so hard to defend stealth Killers on these forums. They're fine, they're actually genuinely fine and balanced. Yes even with low mobility. The mindgames are the point, the difficulty in finding them is the point, they do fine. It's not "just bad Survivors" either because as BHVR's own data shows, most people don't even play at that level and these Killers are all still hitting around 60% Killrates on average just. Friggin'. Fine.
I truly do think that people in the community are either so spoiled for strong choices that make the game trivial now that they just don't consider these guys, at all… that, or they remember when they actually were pathetically weak and don't think the buffs they DID get are enough because, well, they can't dash and patrol the whole map at mach ten, and they can't easily snowball at 5 gens, and they take genuine effort and skill at Killer overall to play, so they may as well be as bad as Trapper right?
it's like some people in this community can't live without looking at anyone that doesn't have a mobility option and crapping on them because "they're old, they're not fast, they have to be weak because if I'm wrong and they're actually not that weak and they're fine, that makes me WRONG, and God Forbid I get proven wrong on the internet…"
"Is it true? Am I so out of touch? No. No, it's just that they always play against bad Survivors and nothing else, that's it, anyone who plays them ONLY gets Bad Survivors and just ain't very good. Not like me, the strong Blight Main who easily winstreaks because I make the game trivial and ends the game before it even starts at 5 gens so nobody gets a round. Yeah, I'M the biggest baddest best Killer around! I'M the skilled one! Me!"
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930415#Comment_3930415
Like i said, too inconsistent. Sometimes it starts later, or it simply thinks hes not being looked at at all. This killer is super boring to play against with his buffs
Well DBD Fourms, is he too weak or too strong or just right? Gonna make up our minds yet? I did post proof after all.
Or are we all gonna just admit as we all should that he's probably fine for average play because 95% of everyone is average, and this whole thread is entirely pointless because for average play he's not at all too weak and holds up in 2v8 fine (which he does)? -
@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930608#Comment_3930608
Ignoring the fact that a 5v5 ranked mode wouldn’t prove skill levels in any way whatsoever by virtue of most people not caring enough to get 4 friends together just to play a alternate game mode, A very loud minority of the player base likes scrimming, the majority of people are either vehemently against it or do not care, Comp players can make as many showcases as they like, the simple fact is that the majority of the playerbase looks at them like they’re a joke, because it is a joke, DBD is a game full of RNG, bad balancing, janky mechanics, bugs, and a lot of other things that make turning this game into a Competitive game a complete meme, people can try, but the fact that most tournaments don’t go anywhere and just have like the same 30 people going up against each other every time shows that most people simply do not give a #########. The player base and developers have demonstrated over, and over, and over, and over, and ######### over again that they don’t care about making this game Competitive
And the reason sweats exist in pubs is simple, they want easy matches against people that are worse then them, they do not want a challenge, they do not want to against people as good as they are, they want to curb stomp casual players using map offerings and every bit of cheese they can use, they wouldn’t join a Comp game mode at all, because then they’d be the ones getting stomped and their egos can’t handle that
People do not care about Comp, people do not want to play Comp, people do not find Comp fun or engaging, appealing to 0.0001% of the playerbase with a mode nobody would play is a stupid endeavour.
And all of this is exactly why tierlists, trying to play Thing-Measuring Contest about Killers' kits, and the phrase "weak Killer" mean nothing. Yes, a weak Killer kit can suffer in comp against good Survivors but almost nobody is actually a good Survivor. Almost nobody.
Which means, supposedly "weak Killers" aren't actually weak. They're balanced for normal play.
I will be downvoted for telling the truth.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
just add ranked 5v5so that people can finally understand which skill level they are actually at, i would bet many people would be all in for that
I'm sorry but I 100% do not want a Ranked mode, or a 5v5 mode, in DBD. I don't care what my true MMR is, I never want to know, and I don't think a 5v5 allout format would even work with Killers of such varied kits.
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@Garboface said:
It's true but even moreso in 1v4. Without such, however, there would be very little variety in gameplay. Killers would get one to two kills Max if survivors just did gens. Gameplay would become very stale, so be grateful for the boneheads.
And this is exactly why "but Good Survivors though!" is always a moot argument.
95% of Survivors play like utter boneheads and all the actual good ones are up facing Blight, Nurse, Kaneki, Wesker on repeat and nobody else. -
No. The Yellow herb removing a hookstage in 2v8 was obscene.
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The number of pallets should be changed if they wanna keep this mechanic, and rebuilding pallets should never come to 1v4 period end of. God Pallets exist. No need to be able to rebuild those. they stymie half the roster. Survivors should NEVER be that safe.
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Just so you know… it's rare but I have seen Ghostfaces put on stealth perks just to gaslight people into thinking he's in Shroud but isn't, and standing trying to reveal…
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929933#Comment_3929933
Did you not read what I said? You cannot reveal him, its super hard to do. And if he breaks line if sight then you're just cooked, cus his mark speed is higher. 10% haste, with stealth as well as the ability to insta down and attack while in power is not fair. Wraith can't even do that, granted his uncloak speed is really quick and hes faster in power
You can and I do it all the time on Survivor. He has to be central on your screen, and he has to be in the middle of it. Look into the mask. You WILL reveal him if he's close enough and not crouched.
EDIT: Downvoted for posting the clear counterplay to a Killer. Never change, DBD Forums.
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@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929986#Comment_3929986
The 10% haste you get from night shroud and since your undetectable Fearmonger gives an extra 5% you pop this in chase your catching up very fast who cares if there revealing you you have already caught up and got the down
This. His Shroud comes back fast enough you can do this midchase and still get the down no problem, it's like Wraith on steroids.
The amount of stuff going on also means he can sneak up easier, Survivors simply have so many more things to worry about that they can miss him, a negation of "but there are so many eyes". At least that's my experience. I get revealed as him more often in 1v4 than 2v8 unless the Survs are directly looking right at him or something.
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If they bring back Lights Out, that's another game mode that is not 2v8 or Chaos Shuffle and is not overplayed. Its second take was pretty balanced all things considered.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
I had this happen to me yesterday, and I was very frustrated. I was playing Wraith, and I got paired with a baby Legion, frosty eyes, default cosmetic and all. They couldn't frenzy hit more than 2 people at a time and either didn't know how to hook people or just couldn't down anyone. They didn't get any hooks at all. We ended up with about 9 hooks that were all from me and we got 8 outed. I got teabagged / clicked at by 5 - 6 survivors in the exit gates. At least 3 of the survivors had 5k+ hours. I'm not mad at the new player so much as I am at the terrible matchmaking for putting a total newb vs 5k+ hour survivors and I get to enjoy the BM thanks to the terrible matchmaking
Me and my friend, a baby Wesker, had this two days ago. I was Ghostface. We got Coldwind. Our 8 Survivors had three subtle speedhackers and two incredibly toxic players who yes, teabagged and clicked and tried to bully us both in the EGC, with the rest just being very good at the game. I carried him half the round - he could not catch anyone because again, BABY - but Ghostie just cannot handle 8 Survivors on his own so we couldn't get them all and got 6-outed, though I did get two kills for us.
There was nothing I could have done as an M1 Killer on a bad map with a baby who doesn't know how to handle loops yet, or that Wesker can vault, and hackers in the round. The fact we got 2 kills - the equivalent of a 1k - is stellar in light of that. He should not have gotten that round. I'm not mad at my friend, and not mad at myself for not being able to keep up with people who came to make the round as miserable as possible for us. I'm mad the game decided THIS was a fair matchup at all, because while MMR is turned off, you are still getting people on your level - you just don't gain or lose any MMR.
This is one of the only games I lost in 2v8, the other was me as Nemmy and my other friend as Wesker again, we got 8-outed by simply a very good team, and also the fact we got a very bad map for Wesker period. There wasn't much to be done but at least those 8 weren't hackers and were great sports in the egc. And, they were clearly at our skill level.
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Respectfully, you do not know my MMR, the calibre of Survivors I get, or my lobbies and CANNOT make this point in good faith.
Please stop. It's embarrassing.
Everyone so eager to jump onto the "M1 Killer Bad" bandwagon despite evidence to the contrary, because they need it to be true to keep the good ol' status quo… Of course when I post proof that he is NOT weak in the mode, over multiple rounds, where I got decent Survivors each time… crickets.
As expected.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930403#Comment_3930403
No? Its a simple fix. Put a server closer to their region so they can play without 100+ms. Its not hard.
Silly. That's the sensible solution, so BHVR won't do that.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929976#Comment_3929976
Hehehehe cheers 🤘😁🤘
PixelBush recently coined the phrase "Dash Slop", referring to every new killer over the past year being some derivative of highly mobile dash killer in one way shape or form... and I've kinda taken a liking to it 😅
I feel like I've been screaming this exact sentiment for years now. No. M1 and low mobility Killers aren't bad with weak kits.
Dash Killers are overtuned and it's ruining the game for everyone. It was fine when it was just Blight, but it's not just Blight anymore. It's Blight and Kaneki and Wesker and retooled Legion and Chucky pre-nerf, and it's not fun to deal with. "Dash Slop" makes sense. I just think it needs a better term.