LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934144#Comment_3934144
Incorrect. I was saying that many Survivors will leave after this patch, whether they DC frequently or not. And the upcoming DC decay change will punish the occasional ragequit or game/server crash, especially for those who only play here and there. For those who play all day every day, then yes, the DC decay won't be an issue.
You like to say that people should quit playing if they ragequit so much, but having DC decay be tied to matches played will force those ragequitters to keep playing. Taking a break for a month won't do anything, because you'll still be punished for that DC you had a month ago. How does anyone not see the folly in that logic?
I won't be quitting. I play Survivor, too, if anything I will play MORE Survivor after this patch because everyone won't be destroying my games by rage-qutting with the DC-Abandon feature. Because THAT, not Killers playing Killer no matter how much I'm tunnelled, camped, or slugged, is what ultimately makes me not wanna play Survivor. When my teammates throw and we end up in an unfair 3v1.
If this patch makes Survivors that like to abandon for simply being downed ONCE quit the game, good. Get out of my game. It doesn't need Survivors like these in it, period, end of. NO game needs this many abandons ruining this many games, I and everyone else am sick of it.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934123#Comment_3934123
what's bad about it? And what actually gives survs the short end here?
So many absolutely winnable soloQ matches get literally obliterated by people who give up prematurely, this is literally a huge QoL improvement for soloQ
It definitely is, but it seems like a ton of hard stops here, I mean they go down a Grade, gain DC points that have to be per round fixed, AND they also can't suicide anymore?
Wouldn't just preventing the on hook go next mostly fix this? It feels a little overkill. I agree it was all necessary but still… a bit overkill. -
Well I had fun in it both sides…
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@WaveyTrey said:
When you swing and the auto aim deliberately makes you miss. Even when you were patient, and got up on the survivors back. I would throw a raging fit. I remember it being so bad I opted a perk slot for that Relentless cooldown perk. It only happens now when the survivors ping is
.
When you are trying to check hooks, and you catch the unhooker unhooking, so you try to pressure and you aim for the unhooker but somehow hit the unhooked person.
Feels bad, man. I'm sorry, I swear I'm not trying to tunnel… :( -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934115#Comment_3934115
Well, my example is probably their worst nightmare, the kind of result their hypotheticals can’t explain away.
I had everything stacked against me:
- Eyrie of crows: most survivor sided map.
- Playing Vommy Mommy; tall, easily spotted from far away.
- Low mobility killer.
- Mostly an M1 killer with a conditional M2.
- One gen left, only three hook states, and all gens with progress.
No tunneling. Still pulled a 3K win.
According to them, that’s “impossible.” But it happened.
And that’s the point, tangible gameplay beats endless what-if spirals. Hypotheticals aren’t being used to explore ideas or balance. They’re being used to deflect, to protect their belief system, and worse, to avoid the work of actually analyzing games.
What ifs and hypotheticals can go both ways, endlessly. All they are doing is trying to win an argument on the internet. Nothing to do with dead by daylight or balance. Much like the "like" and "dislikes" they are looking for confirmation bias reinforcement.
So yeah, it’s ironic. They say "I’m in a fantasy for not tunneling", while they build their argument on a fantasy version of matches, and ones that I post as well. Dismissing them and picking them apart to fit their narrative, and ignoring the things posted above.
We need to push back, because if all the forums ever hear are emotional complaints dressed up as logic, developers, and players; never get the full picture.
And this is another reason I don't put stock in tierlists anymore either. I could care less what some bigwig online says about how good or bad a Killer is. How do they perform when someone who knows what they are doing and how to play Killer, or play THAT Killer, is in the round?
Ghostface and Plague STILL win 60% of their Kills. 60%! They are tying or better 60% of the damn time. This is true of every. Single. Killer in this game.I am so tired of hearing "But Dredge C tier because locker spawns!" and "But Ghostface D tier because no mobility and Reveal and he has to hope Survs make mistakes!" and "But Houndmaster A tier because she has haste and antiloop!" Buddy. BUDDY. Every Killer has a basic antiloop called mindgaming, and every Killer can learn to work around a lack of resources, and every Killer takes advantage of Survivor mistakes. A Killer is not good or bad based on their kit's potential, if you judge a fish on how well it can climb a tree of COURSE it looks like it's a "weak" animal. But if you judge it on swimming, or on being good at camouflage…
Now apply this to Killers. Apply it to say, Dredge. Dredge may be map dependent, but what does it do well? Mobility, antiloop, and a little stealth. That's a workable kit. How about Pig? What does she do well? She has basekit slowdown - BASEKIT. SLOWDOWN, so few Killers even have basekit slowdown! - and she has stealth and a dash. There you go, antiloop, something stealthy, and a basekit thing almost no Killers get. What does Ghostface do well? He's really really good at stealth, and he gets a lot of info basekit from both stalk and Reveal - he also instant downs, something not a lot of Killers get basekit. Many Killers need addons for that. Played right, that is basekit info, stealth, AND antiloop. What doe Plague do? Map pressure, injury pressure, and she has some range that can damage conditionally plus she gets some info. That can be really strong, and often can create catch-22s for Survivors - not a lot of Killers capitalize on keeping Survivors injured like that.
And what does Nurse do in comparison? She… has mobility and can break loops entirely. What about Blight? He has mobility and… breaks loops entirely. Boring. Yawn. Give me these "weaker" Killers with a lot more depth to their kits that require learning the game any day. -
@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
People with 0 self awareness.
(Play m1 killer, play for fun with a weak build, get 4 outted with 6-8 hooks, bagged at exit gate or trash talked in end game chat.)
(Above can go for survivor too.)
I learned Ghostface a few months back for funsies. I'm not THE BEST at him but I do pretty ok, because I also know Pig, Myers, and Wraith, so I play him a bit like them a lot of the time. Forgive me, I'm still learning optimal stalk angles and probably get revealed more often than I should. He is a big learning curve compared to how you play most Killers.
I got the Wassup mask recently because I have always liked Scary Movie, and thought it'd be fun to go in with a silly speed and big TR build and see what happened, since I've noticed people tend to get pretty silly with Ghostface if he seems chill. I just wanted to Nyoom and play him " the wrong way" because it was funny. I proceeded to get THE MOST aggressive sore winner squad, who also sent me to Coldwind (a terrible map due to few hiding spots for him and his dark cloak standing out like a sore thumb). I mean you name it they did it, every sore winner trick in the book. They pretty much bent me over a table and went in dry - I was an M1 Killer, and they were running strong builds, and I was just trying to goof.I got so frustrated and sad they were doing this I sat in a corner and went to go make a sandwich. Then when the round ended and I came back, I got nothing but gloating and name-calling about how bad I was in the endgame chat. Guys, how can you truly not see I wasn't trying and was just goofing around, not even looking to win? Why treat me like this? What on earth did I actually do to deserve this?
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934115#Comment_3934115
Well, my example is probably their worst nightmare, the kind of result their hypotheticals can’t explain away.
I had everything stacked against me:
- Eyrie of crows: most survivor sided map.
- Playing Vommy Mommy; tall, easily spotted from far away.
- Low mobility killer.
- Mostly an M1 killer with a conditional M2.
- One gen left, only three hook states, and all gens with progress.
No tunneling. Still pulled a 3K win.
According to them, that’s “impossible.” But it happened.
And that’s the point, tangible gameplay beats endless what-if spirals. Hypotheticals aren’t being used to explore ideas or balance. They’re being used to deflect, to protect their belief system, and worse, to avoid the work of actually analyzing games.
What ifs and hypotheticals can go both ways, endlessly. All they are doing is trying to win an argument on the internet. Nothing to do with dead by daylight or balance. Much like the "like" and "dislikes" they are looking for confirmation bias reinforcement.
So yeah, it’s ironic. They say "I’m in a fantasy for not tunneling", while they build their argument on a fantasy version of matches, and ones that I post as well. Dismissing them and picking them apart to fit their narrative, and ignoring the things posted above.
We need to push back, because if all the forums ever hear are emotional complaints dressed up as logic, developers, and players; never get the full picture.
I once managed to outplay a group as Dredge on Ormond, where next to no lockers spawn and they had stacked toolboxes. Dredge is not favored to win. I did not slug, camp, or tunnel on purpose. I did not bring anything too crazy for gen hold. I 4ked.
I also once had a Ghostface round on Eyrie - I was sent there, they had two sabo people AND the other two had generator progress perks AND they were efficient, and I was not on my A-game. I still 3ked, but only because I let an Ada go because she charmed me with Bardic Inspo. I'm a sucker for Bardic Inspo. :) -
@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933144#Comment_3933144
are you implying that the majority of survivors are rage quitters lol
That seems to be what they're implying, yes. Generally speaking most Survs want to play and will not rage quit enough to make a difference here. It still allows for the occasional understandable rage-quit here and there, this just punishes people who do it all the time because they can, AKA "Go-Nexting".
People are still allowed a little rage-quit, as a treat, it's going to happen and it's normal when games become frustrating. This system does not punish that as harshly as it does people who do it over and over and over again. The people that ARE doing that are the issue, not people who stop and go play something else for the day every so often.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932804#Comment_3932804
If a survivor is willing to go next but can't, they will not play the match to win, therefore its a buff to killers
There is a lot more I can do if my teammate is throwing like this than if they simply give up and are dead on second hook. There being four Survs at all is a much bigger boon to Survivors - even if one doesn't do jack - than there being three.
It's a buff to everyone. Now these salt lords have to stay in the round or eat a DC, and the rest of us can get on with the game. Win-win.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932822#Comment_3932822
If theyre not confident relying on cheap gameplay doesnt help them improve their skill. So they use them cause its easy, just as i said. Youre just agreeing to me there. You dont need mobility to not play just slowdown. As killer I am Trapper Main and i never had to rely on those slowdown builds, cause I just know what i have to do as trapper. Most killer players have literally no clue on how to play their character properly. So relying on cheap gameplay is the easy way out again. And most people already play S-Tier killers and still use 4 slowdowns to just annoy people. Common sense again.
While I agree none of these Killers should rely on tunnelling you continue to miss my point. I did not say these Killers have to do this. I said if someone is a weaker Killer player overall, they may feel the need to do this.
Most people are most certainly not all playing S tiers, go look at the pickrates sometime. There's still pretty high pickrates for Killers that are strong but not S tier (Dracula, Wesker, Huntress, etc.) and the pickrate for a fair few of the lower tiers is also higher than you'd think too. In fact some very strong killers, like Artist and Twins, are hardly ever picked at all… which disproves that claim that "everyone just plays strong Killers".
You are correct that many Killers don't learn their kits properly, which is why the phrase "weak Killer" is and always has been an oxymoron. No Killer is weak - you just might not know how to play them yet, or effectively. It's not the Killer's kit, it's the player.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932988#Comment_3932988
A bug would explain alot, i've been trying to track when it gives the 5 fragments to figure out how reliant on quest's the new system is. You can go hour's without getting that bonus 5 xp, not to mention it doesn't always tell you it gave it to you when you do manage to get it.
If it is indeed a bug, that explains everything! No wonder it seemed inconsistent. Has anyone opened a bug report yet? If not, I will. I don't think the Devs intended us to not get fragments every round, and they should buff it to 10 a round anyway - that's more sensible than 5.
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All mostly good changes. However, why nerf Artist? She was fine. And am I the only one who thinks this version of the Go Next system is a bit… harsh?
Also not sure that change was needed for Twins, who asked for it?
Consider giving Ghostface some of the haste he gets in 2v8 while in Shroud next update - just 3-5% would do.
Why is Drac killswitched? What's wrong with him at the moment? :(
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I know we call patches sided even when they're not, but… Jeez. They really gave Survs the short end this time didn't they?
I get it, it had to be done to stop Go-Nexting. It was that bad. But Lord Almighty this is harsh.
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Because apparently this is all the community ever wants to play anymore. It makes me sad, but that's that…
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I'm sorry but I don't care enough about what big names in the community have to say about the game to care about what Choy says, I prefer to draw my own conclusions about the game and its balance, thanks.
Congrats on the spotlight though! -
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/446090/why-complain-about-genrushing
it's….the point of the game….I really don't understand why people get so bitter about it.
The generators are the survivor's objective but they're not really the point. The point is to interact with the killer. If anyone queues up for matches solely to play gen repair sim, that's pretty lame.
As for why people are bitter…
Generators function as a sort of timer that can be influenced by the actions of the players. Gen rushing means four people queued up to play a five-player game with the sole intention of speeding up that timer and ending the match as quick as possible. That leaves the fifth player feeling like four people don't want to interact with him and specifically worked to make sure he got to do very little in the match they queued up to play together. They may be on opposing sides, but they're still playing the same game together.
It's similar to tunneling. Instead of the killer feeling they were excluded from the game, one survivor feels they were targeted to be prevented from playing. For survivors, a fun match is well rounded with chases, saves, and gen repair, so if a survivor is prevented from doing two of those three things and yanked out of the match as fast as possible, it feels pretty crappy.
We can talk about "illogical" and "but gameplay reasons" and all that, but in the end players are just humans, and humans don't enjoy playing a game where they're prevented from playing and/or feel like no one else wants to play with them. DbD is a game where playing efficiently is often unfun as hell for the opposing side, and it understandably causes a lot of friction. No amount of talking it through is going to change that gut reaction and frustration many people are going to feel in those situations.
I couldn't have said this any better myself, bravo! This is exactly why Killer players still complain about genrushing. When gens go fast, they don't get to play and it feels bad. That's why so many bring these unfun gen perks. They want a chance to play, and these perks are their best chance.
Don't you like feeling good when you show off your skill as Survivor? I do! I like looping, it's fun. Similarly, I want to show off my skill with a Killer I dedicated time and energy to learning well, I want to have fun chases with Nemesis and Dredge and Pig and Ghostface and Dracula and Pinhead and more. I want to show you my skill at the game and test it on you. I cannot do this when the timer - generators - goes so fast I can barely focus on one person.
Being stomped on sucks. Losing in a 0k or a quick Out sucks. Being made to feel like you BARELY got to do anything or have any effect on the round sucks. And that's why Killers complain about gen speeds.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933365#Comment_3933365
Ive posted gameplay nonstop on this forum for awhile. So I dont know why it was even necessary. The least you can do is reciprocate for really any further discussion* as this post of yours is just goal post shifting.
*(A match where you think you were required to tunnel)
First it was
"Show us how you play without tunneling"
Now its
"Show us how you play without tunneling, whilst you going afk at the start of the round, while spinning in place for 5 minutes, while the survivors are coordinating, while the stars aligning…"
You are creating a scenario where ITS THE BEST scenario for survivors, and THE WORST scenario for the killer to fit your narrative.
Hypotheticals dont support anything im afraid.
But worst and best scenario if you watched the full match, happens towards the end. Where I am not in any position to be strong or comfortable. And during the match I was never really in a strong position to begin with it was pretty even until the end where it shifted completely to them with 1 gen remaining and 3 hook stages.I watched the start of the video (don’t have time to finish it now, but will do so later), and I can already see that this match doesn’t apply to the situations I was addressing with my post. The first survivors you found were clearly F-ing around, not gen-rushing. It’s easy to see very early on why you didn’t need to tunnel given the lack of coordination or urgency to complete the objectives from the survivor team. I am not arguing that tunneling is required in matches like this. I’ve had plenty of matches play out the way this one did.
You're just dead wrong here.
They werent doing gens immediately to avoid disease. Its part of plague slowdown. The equivalent of this is stealthing out nurse at the start of the match. You dont just go onto gens immediately.
Plus they were in corrupt.
And you need to be reminded again, or you just didnt watch the video:
1 gen left, 3 hook stages.
I wasnt exactly in a strong position, ignoring that I am on Eyrie of crows to begin with.
No tunnel, no camp, no slug;
Just macro play. You see hints of this every time that little Yui went main.
My guess is most killers who think "tunneling is necessary" would continue chase with that person. Which would lose them the match. And then be like "SEE IF I DIDNT TUNNEL…"
Heres another one as well this time its pigeroni.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGWe7d4C_s
Your response can basically be summed up as this common dismissal:
"Well those are low mmr survivors"
No matter what I posted you would have said this.Chucking, don't bother arguing about this. I posted multiple times across a few threads here about how Ghostface, considered a Low Tier Killer if not incredibly weak (he isn't), could hold up in 2v8 with a similarly skilled Blight and Wesker in a round against equally good Survivors, and I got downvoted to hell for it because nobody wants to hear that lower tier Killers can be decent if the player is good or you run the right perks. They need to hold onto this idea they're "just bad" for their ego's sake.
If those saying that ever had the realization they're wrong, and these Killers actually DO require you to be more skilled than just spamming a power as say… Kaneki, or Blight, or Nurse? They'd feel bad. We can't have someone prove them wrong on the internet, now can we? Nope, downvoting and trying to argue the opposite is so much easier…
And no. You're not required to tunnel, slug, or camp on Ghostface either. Or Pig. Or Sadako. Or Myers… Or… insert "weak low tier Killer" here.
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Because many of the Killers some people like to play as HEAVILY struggle to even pressure gens effectively because they do not have mobility.
Because it feels really bad to have the game be half over in one chase even if you do REALLY well in chase, all because the team brought gen efficiency items and perks.
Because it's simply a lie that, if you are decent at Killer and trying, really trying to go for chases - the fun part - that it's a skill issue if you lose a few gens in one chase. It's expected on some Killers to have this happen.
Because I would like time to play the round and interact with everyone - I can't do that when half the gens are gone in under two minutes.
Because there is only one Killer and most people aren't playing the super mobility ones like Blight.
Because I do not even enjoy Blight, Nurse, Kaneki, or speedy Killers; they make me nauseous to play, I have to play the slower ones, it's an accessibility issue and I am being punished for it.
Because it's not fair to M1s like Myers, Ghostface, Trapper, Pig, etc. to have to sweat MORE than someone mobile or who doesn't need to set up. Don't they deserve a game too?
Because well… do Survivors like it when they have their game over too quickly from the Killer going hard with tunnels from the word go? I don't. I sure hate this as Survivor, I would like to play the game…
Because I don't like to run a lot of stronger regression and I shouldn't have to do that on ANY Killer just to have a shot at my goal on some Killers - nobody should have to run gen regression to play a decent round if they don't want to, just like Survs shouldn't have to equip chase perks to play a decent round. Often, Killers may feel they HAVE to use perks like these because of past losses, because they feel unconfident, or because they want time to play with other perks. I promise we don't bring them because we hate Survivors and want them to suffer on gens. -
I just am really gonna miss the Masquerade entirely… it was something truly unique and special. However… I'm interested in seeing what they will do next!
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It's better and usable but needs to be more. Period. End of. It shouldn't have been nerfed to begin with, and certainly not to unusability.
BHVR has GOT to make kicking gens worth it and provide perks for it, especially for M1s. There is no reason a Trapper should ever be dry-kicking gens, he can't afford to. There is also no reason an Artist, a Ghostface, a Myers, a Pig, or anyone else with low or limited mobility should ever be dry-kicking gens. This perk just is not quite enough incentive to. And arguably, I shouldn't need to bring a perk to do this at all.
Just buff some more of the weaker gen perks, what is it going to hurt? Stacked Commodious toolbox players? Should we not have counterplay to that?
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Unfortunately, the problem with Go-Nexting is that bad. They needed to be harsh with it. I think it's still a little too harsh, but they HAD to actually punish it somehow. I don't know how. I think the old system was fine. The rest is fine, I am cool with seeing people penalized a whole grade down for trying to Go-Next and letting me and the rest of my team suffer. Play the round, or don't play the game at all. No more excuses, I am tired of dying at 5 gens because you don't like playing against Plague or whatever.
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I agree with you. I am happy they made it a flat non-stacking 20% for offerings, but I still do not want to see anyone try to influence the game this way; it's not fun or fair to be a Surv against a Chucky on Lery's or an M1 Killer against a SWF on Eyrie. Anyone who's mad about that change can get over it; stop trying to force the game to go your way every round.
I too would like to see offerings that ban certain maps, but my fear is those could also be exploited.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Halving the amount is pretty significant. It really feels like you don't make progress with the new system. It was very easy to miss the rewarding of those 5 fragments, too, since the new system wasn't displaying the little bar illustrating XP to Fragments after a match.
Also, it seems there is a bug where people are not getting any Rift Fragments for XP: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/445614/no-rift-fragments-from-xp
I agree it's not enough. The point of this post was to say you DO get it, not to say it's good you only get this much.
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@nicnc82 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932794#Comment_3932794
How does this force survivors to rescued? Actually, it does the opposite. Since I know the survivor can't off themselves on the hook, im staying on that gen longer. And if I don't want tk be in the game any longer, im doing what others suggested and not rescuing. You can't force anyone to play how you want. We should know this by now since killers still tunnel, slig and camp.
Do you want your teammates to die? I don't. If you Gens B4 Friends there isn't any point in trying to wait the game out.
If you refuse to rescue, you give the Killer the win. Try. You have to play the game now. If you refuse to play the game, then take a break and play something else.
I will be downvoted for saying this but if you don't want to play, simply do not play. These changes are coming because Survivors give up too easily already, just like the AFC and anti slug coming, just like the anti tunnel coming. I'm sorry, but blame people for Going Next for why we cannot have nice things anymore. Downvoting me will not make that change. -
I thought it was intentionally removed to prevent Killers from forcing cages away from Survivors going for saves.
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932318#Comment_3932318
WAIT A MINUTE, they actually banned danielmaster87 !?!?!!?
Rest in pieces soldier@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932786#Comment_3932786
I feel a strange sense of loss.
I have a sick suspicion that because he only posted Killer-sided takes, he may have been targeted by people who dislike that. The same occurs for the downvote system - I know, because I am currently being targeted that way for talking about Killer side here, and it's 100% worse when I use an avatar that is a Killer (I can prove it, I can show you posts from when I had Cheryl as my PFP and they didn't get near the amount of hate I do now), just like when I used to be on Reddit. It's why it needs to go, it doesn't promote discussion, it only promotes trolling and targeted harassment.
Daniel did not deserve the ban, he did not post anything problematic, he did not harass anyone, and he did not post anything that was an issue to anyone. He just happened to post EXTREMELY Killer-sided takes that while tone deaf were harmless. I have seen this with countless other people here too - almost always Killer-sided posters, almost never Survivor-sided ones.
If it's not direct favoritism or targeting, then something is off with the ban detection or people are getting false flagged. That needs addressing.
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If people want to do this with Luck offerings, that is one less map offering, oak offering, or useless other offering. It's also sadly, one less BP offering. :( I'd rather everyone just bring BP offerings instead of any offerings that tilt the game, but if you really wanna be this pathetic that you build around 4%ing to go next, or stand in a corner or point at a hook or whatever, feel free. But you will get a DC penalty and a loss for it, tanking you down to baby MMR with even worse opponents, so you'll just ruin your own games doing this.
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Taking things away is never the proper response to making a game more fun.
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@jayoshi said:
Playing killer, it was annoying having survivors remove a hook state. HOWEVER, it was fun trying to find them first. I think it needed to be balanced more. I think removing a hook state is not balanced with both killers moving a little faster for a short amount of time. They should make herbs with some small tweaks (for killer) something permanent in 2v8 - and if they can't because it was a RE license thing, then just make them totems that glow yellow or green but act the same with the same interaction animation.
When my friends have me play 2v8 survivor with them, I have an awful time. I had more fun as survivor last time. I would assume you make it more fun for survivor, killer wait times will go down too. I think this might be the longest killer wait times with this version.
I actually like the idea of totems having a use in 2v8 by doing this. Just remove the "take a hook stage away" option and instead have it be Haste Boost or an activatable Quiet Mode or something.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932541#Comment_3932541
Well I agree for the most part. And especially about tier lists.
Every time someone asks a big streamer for some tier list, they are pretty much saying, "Hey guy who is more popular than me, can you think for me so I don't have to?"
Ghostface was never and will never be D tier, and I am sick of people pretending he is. Learn to play the character.
Dredge is also not low tier just because Otzdarva says so. I'm over it.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932435#Comment_3932435
Thats just the normal misconception. There is no need to run these perks. The overall majority just does it cause its easy and it makes survivors suffer. Killer have much more variety in their perks than survivors ever had. Both of this is common sense.
Trapper, Pig, Ghostface, Legion, Clown, Doctor, and all other low tier Killer picks don't need to run these perks at all?
Do you really think low mobility Killers can win against a team of stronger Survivor players that can coordinate well enough to make gens go by quickly? you TRULY think all Killer players just want Survivor players to suffer?
… oh no, friend… you think KIllers don't play Survivor too, don't you? You actually think Killer players WANT to hurt people… I'm afraid you're the one with the misconception here. Most Killers only run these perks for three reasons:
1) Their Killer does not have mobility and they face decent teams often.
2) They aren't confident at map pressure yet.
3) They're a setup Killer that may need the extra time to prepare.None of those are about making Survivors feel bad. Nobody runs Pain Res to make you feel bad. The game isn't about you.
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@Lixadonna said:
The game is become least casual friendly and catered towards High MMR.
The changes here are meant to punish these High MMR players. It's Higher MMR that tries to set the playing field, use certain SWF strategies, or play around certain perks. These changes actually make the game more casual friendly because it sets the baseline expectation for the game. Now you have to play fair on both sides, no trying to tilt the scales or force the see-saw down or take-backs if you get salty you got a Killer you don't want to play against.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932633#Comment_3932633
Survivors can send Killers to maps just to bully them and make themselves unhookable.
For example, If a SWF bring a Badham map along with an offering to spawn the basement in Killer Shack, they can run down to the lower level of the preschool for safety. If the have Boil Over, the Killer won't be able to hook them.
Some Killers can also force beneficial maps for them this way currently. For example, a Huntress sending people to Coldwind so she has more line of sight, or a Ghostface forcing people to Lery's because it's a strong stealth map, or a Dredge forcing everyone to Midwich to benefit from how many lockers there are. Both sides do this.
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@Rudjohns said:
"Go next prevention" is a massive buff for killers, again….
Killers and SoloQ are the people most affected by Go Next. This system benefits SoloQ Survivors too by preventing people from throwing on them. It also means a game will not become a 3v1 early which IS a massive buff to the Killer itself; it's one whole less Survivor. This also benefits Killers by keeping good Survs in the round longer, so they may lose anyway, so they might not gain MMR and might not boost into higher levels JUST because people Go Next and hand them the win.
There is nothing about this that solely buffs for Killers and doesn't address a massive issue both sides have.
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Mildly concerned about the perk buffs but this all looks pretty good and healthy for the game.
I really appreciate these Go-Next prevention changes, it fixes a lot of the biggest gripes with them. It also means Survivors will have to save their friends and that not only gives Killers a little more pressure around hooks, but it could also do wonders against the Gens B4 Friends effect in SoloQ - now someone MUST go for that Survivor, so SoloQ Survs should get some relief there. It also punishes people who try to Go Next or do Go Next, as intended. It should always have been a disconnect penalty, and should always have resulted in a Loss for that Survivor period. Hopefully now all the Go-Next types will sink lower in MMR and not ruin games for the rest of us, meaning I will get Survivors that actually try as Killer, and team mates that won't just hop off the ship first sign of a leak as Survivor. I am unsure if Deliverance and Wicked still work with this system but I assume they do; it'd be really weird if they didn't. It also appears that with these changes, trying to Kobe or getting that off one percent chance of escape is dead, which should make people who hated doing the hard work of hooking but then losing it to a random chance happy. Now you need to build around it - and luck offerings have a purpose again. Good rework, Devs!
The map offering change should have been a total removal of them or made them NOT go to that map, but I'll take a flat percentage that is no longer guaranteed and doesn't stack. That should help with Survivors who like to get in SWF and force Killers to unfavorable maps, or Killers who like to force Survivors to maps they prefer. That was always a needed change. Hiding offerings is also a good move, though Killers can always still tell by checking the pause screen to see who brought what since it appears map offerings are secret now alongside Moris. This will help hide Mori offerings, keeping them a secret surprise as intended.I'm not sure if the AFK update is going to really punish hiding enough, but maybe it occurs faster or is harder to remove? It doesn't appear that you removed the trick of picking up and dropping an item to remove crows, which was always a huge issue, but we'll need to see. The rest sounds good, anti-body block was always necessary. I'm sick of trolling team mates doing this to me, and I'm sick of Killers doing it too. It should have been like this to begin with.
That Mori update is chef's kiss, and will greatly make the waiting at the end of an already won round less painful for both Killer and Survivor. Thank you for letting us just finish off the Mori with the second to last person struggling on the hook and the last one downed, but it should really be if the second to last person is on the hook at all and the last Surv is downed. Otherwise we have to wait for the Survivor to go to second stage if the Killer wants to Mori, which could be a painful scenario.
Spawn rules are perfect now, and the shroud items have a use plus counterplay. Much better. Again, good job Devs.
The updates to Artist are… questionable when she is in a good state already, but I get it. It's nice to keep Killers tweaked and ready. The Vecna changes will make him a bit more powerful with a bit more counterplay, which is always good. This may actually get me to learn him, he always intrigued me a bit. Happy for the Artist and Vecna mains!
Perk changes appear to be designed to boost them in viability, which is always good for variety. I'm super excited to see CoB and Thrilling Tremors on that list, and am hopeful this means they will both become viable anti-generator progression perks for Killers - something that feels sorely lacking. Thrilling was always a personal fave of mine for doing two things in one (gen control and info), so seeing it get buffed will be awesome! I'm also happy to see some of the chase perks and stealth perks become buffed, those were always fun picks and I would love to see more surprise attacks from Killers running these - and run them myself. I'm a firm believer that some of the most fun you can have as Killer in DBD is with surprise attacks, and these will cement that if they're made slightly better. I am a little concerned about those Survivor perks since buffing Exaltation could create some nasty scenarios with items. I'm also lightly concerned there may be an increase in attempts to flashlight squad with Champion of Light, which worries me for newer or weaker Killer players who struggle to counter flashlights consistently yet. I always liked Desperate Measures but if adjusted too far I suspect it could become another We'll Make It or Babysitter, and we don't need those two things stacking with it. I'm a fan of the Light-Footed change and hope it will become like Iron Will but for being uninjured.Overall these look quite solid, I just hope the devs put their money where their mouths are here.
Edit: I am forced to assumed I was downvoted because nobody has the patience to read, because all I said was the same stuff everyone else did… This targeting has gotta stop.
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The point is to keep chase going so the Killer doesn't camp and Survivors can't just hide all round.
Hope that clears this up.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Everyone cries too much about ghost face being so "weak" when he in fact is quite strong. His main "counters" all involve the entire team being a coordinated SWF (spoiler: ALL killers will struggle with this!) where no one touches gens until someone can spot him, and one person basically follows him around and keeps him out of power.
Sounds so terrible for ghost face at first, until you realize that all that time, it means survivors are not doing gens, and if someone is always following you and knocking you out of stealth, that is a free chase you get to start without having to search for the survivors.
Frankly I don't care where big streamers place him on their tier lists. He needs to be fair to go against, and removing him from power at most once before he just face stalks you and gets a free instant down isn't fair.
You're telling the truth but you will be downvoted for it, why?
Because people simply need to believe this Killer can never be good, or it shatters their idea that maybe they're wrong about M1 Killers, not playing this one correctly, or not very good at stealth Killers in general. They did it with Sadako, they did it with Wraith long ago, and now it's simply Ghostface's turn to be crapped on. They also did it when Chucky got the MINOREST of tweaks to make him more fair in chase, and the community instantly started screaming "OMG HE'S TRASH NOW HE'S A C TIER" when he wasn't. Frankly the constant complaints are probably because most people try to play Ghostface and other Stealth Killers the way you would most M1s. You cannot do that, they are not built for that, these Killers are meant for ambush not chase - and even in chase, if you simply know how to use your power and mindgame, you're probably fine.
It's 100% not his Reveal that's the issue, though it can be problematic due to server ping, or his chase (he technically uses extended mindgames as antiloop). The issue is his mobility. He's otherwise got a pretty balanced OK Kit and decent addons, he is not "weak" just because Otzdarva says he is and everyone wants to believe they're high level. I promise you, you're not high enough MMR to make him so unviable he's actually D tier, you will probably still win 60% of your games playing as him. Yet another reason tierlists are misleading poison to the community and we all should disavow them ASAP. At some point people need to stop blaming the Killer and their kit, and start blaming themselves and looking for how to improve, especially with a limited kit like Ghostface has.
And if not, and you still refuse to believe he's fine or try to improve and learn his actual kit? Well…"Is it true? Am I just bad at Ghostface and don't know how to properly stealth or M1 chase? Is he just too difficult for me to use well because I am not good at his kit? No. No, it's not my fault, he's just too weak to be viable… not like me, the strong Blight Main!"
I too will be downvoted for telling the obvious truth, but hey. Whatever helps people who are bad at stealth and M1 chase sleep at night I guess.
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First off, the Devs are not siding with any one side. They are not Killer OR Survivor sided. 2v8 is just like this, adding new Killers and KWF will always be the bigger draw, this mode is Survivor-sided but it's FOR people who want to play Killer with a friend.
Second, I agree that there should be some more stuff for Survs to do in the mode. But this is perennial with DBD as a whole. I for one like that they switched up the mechanics and did the Herbs one iteration but Fog Bombs the next, that's genuinely cool!
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IDK but Ghostface not having voicelines at all is a crime. :(
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Survivors tend to become salty sometimes when you win regardless of how fair you play. It's not you it's them.
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Maybe there are actually enough people playing Survivor in the mode, they don't need the incentive? Or maybe people just are going back to 1v4 because they got the unlockables.
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In a sense, yes, in some aspects, no.
Are there things in the game that make doing a generator quickly too powerful? Yes. Should Killers have something to handle this that isn't just bringing a perk, and that this problem needs looking at again? Yes. Is generator pressure currently in Survivors' favor if they want it to be? I think also yes. Being stomped is NOT fun for either side, doing a good chase and losing 2 gens in 20 seconds is not fun for Killer and feeling pressured to bring strong gen stuff is not fun for Survivor. If I had my druthers I would bring no to little gen hold at all, but I feel I can't as the Killers I like to play due to the gen speeds.
Do I think it's a problematic tactic overall? No. Do I think we need to completely nerf toolboxes? No.
I think the solution is the spawn mechanic, and perhaps adjusting toolboxes a bit - at least ones similar to Commodious. Clearly making them more sabo friendly did nothing to change how toolboxes are actually used. -
Every Cenobite Main Liked That.
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Myers. Dredge. Sadako. Xeno. Dracula.
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Frankly if the Survivors force the Killer to do this at any point it SHOULD be a loss. At that point, the Killer is playing the game - it's Survivors who refuse to concede defeat or play at all and try.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932489#Comment_3932489
I mean, what if they can't?
Being able to bodyblock for the teammate who just got unhooked is pretty dependant on the killer not being able to easily go around you. It's a very situational counter for a very universal tactic on the killer side, and if it doesn't work out, the killer gets massive value.
Sometimes you get into situations in this game that are simply bad luck. Sometimes you get off the Hook, the Killer is patrolling, sees you, goes to smack the unhooker, and hits you and decides to waste not want not. Sometimes, you go to heal in a corner and the Killer simply finds you. Sometimes you mistime the Deliverance and mistakenly unhook too close to the Killer. It happens. The game is unpredictable that way.
Killers are given unhook notifications for a reason - it's to find and chase Survivors. Sometimes, that means they end up chasing Survivors off hook. One of the tooltips even states that checking on hooks is a good spot to find Survivors, and common sense dictates that SOMEONE has to come save the hooked Survivor usually (unless certain perks are in play), meaning it's intended for the Killer to do this, the Devs see no problem with it.
This is a feature not a bug, unfortunately - blame BHVR for this.
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@florenza2509 said:
you almost nerf all exhaustion perk 50% can't believe plz buff dh again atleast we need this need our dh back 🙏
They didn't "almost nerf" the perks, they gently tweaked them to be more balanced. The reason exhaustion perks were changed somewhat is the same reason generator hold perks for Killer were changed somewhat - they were too powerful and unbalanced for the way the game is being pushed more towards chases, which everyone on almost every single survey said was the most important and fun part of DBD. Not holding gens and not making it so the Killer can never catch people if they have no mobility power.
We 100% do not need 10 second Adrenaline or Dead Hard for Distance back against 95% of the roster, any more than we need 3gen setups with Eruption, DMS, and Grim Embrace back. The game needs to be balanced somehow, and the rule is that BHVR has decided long ago that Survivors aren't supposed to always win chases and outrun the Killer. They decided this around the same time Infinites, true ones, were removed from the game several years back - and the fact is Exhaustion perks could still create infinites for some Killers on some structures, and so those too were nerfed to make the game fairer. There are still a few, but they are slowly being phased out.
It's time to accept that this strategy of Dead Hard for Distance and forcing the Killer to boost you to the next pallet by taking the hit was never actually okay and was too powerful. It needed to go for the sake of game health and balance, just like Gen Hold 3Gen Meta did.
If you have the most fun in chases or being chased, and the community has said it does, it has gotta stop complaining about getting what it asked for.
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@tjt85 said:
I don't really have a problem with the new system. I've been able to get most of the weekly 2V8 challenges done in a single play session and there really isn't anything special about my level of skill at DBD. I am very, very average.
That said, the power of FOMO is compelling. I hate Ghost Face and I don't care for badges or banners, but I still completed all but two of the challenges to get unlockables I will never use (it helps that challenges also progress the rift too, I guess). But even with the old tome system, hasn't that kinda always been there?
I'll probably finish the rift and most of the milestone challenges a long time before it closes. I suppose it will depend on how often you can play, but I don't think most players will have difficulty completing the rift and / or at least unlocking quite a bit of it so long as they play a couple times a week.
@Lexilogo said:
I was able to clean up my quests relatively quickly (helped a LOT by completing both Killer/Survivor conditions counting as 2 quest completions for the purposes of the meta-quests, so I don't need to do every single one to get the rewards. sadly, this is probably a bug) but I still really am not a fan of this short window to finish these last bits of the quest. Had circumstances been slightly different for me, I could've completely missed the window to play. People have lives, please let them finish everything at any point during the event and find some different way to stop people from clearing everything too quickly rather than this clunky timegating.
I also didn't have this issue and got the quests done relatively fast. And I believe I got affected by that same bug, because for some reason two of my 2nd week challenges counted as 2 completions…
All the same this system needs more than 5 or so quests a week and the quests SHOULD be doable outside of 2v8. I don't mind the system, I mind that there are so few quests to try your hand at and you must generally do them all to get the rewards, IN the specific game mode. It feels restrictive and grindy, and limits freedom IMHO. Imagine if they bring back something like the much maligned Lights Out and do challenges for it, people will loathe the system even more.I do not think this system needs reverting and I think many people are just Good Old Daysing about the Tome system, ignoring flaws that system had. But it's very valid to be upset about the current system as the timegating feels really bad here and it DOES feel more grindy for events and modes - it genuinely feels fine for the tome challenges IMHO but they should just release all the event/mode challenges at once, not on s week by week basis. I personally am fine with knocking a few challenges out per day in a few hours of play, but I do not like waiting for the next set to unlock when there isn't enough to do in one week. The short window here also produces FOMO, which isn't great.
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Nobody has said it yet, but Clock Tower.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932442#Comment_3932442
1 i wasn't complaining i was honestly just going to list out killers who could but was too lazy to do it
2 you missed a couple
Dracula (wolf form) killer instinct when survivors vault near him
houndmaster search
vecna if he downs people with skeletons
xeno if survivors are close enough to the tunnel entrance are revealed while he's exiting tunnels
if there are more i'm too lazy to look
Also correct. I believe Spirit also gets it if she runs Cherry Blossom. Wasn't trying to go for every Killer that has it though.