LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911118#Comment_3911118
The perk literally has in its description "Balanced landing can NOT be used while exhausted" meaning while exhausted the perk is essentially shut off. And it still reducing fall stagger while exhausted is a bug.
Thanks for clarifying. Is there a bug report yet? If not I can go make one.
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I have not played KIller this event at all because I don't see the point. The Killers I like, Dredge aside, don't work in it or lose their powers in it, or can't pressure enough without some gen control of some kind. I know I know, skill-less bad Killer using gen control at all, but when you're casually playing some Wraith and even his speed feels like it's not enough… Or you load in to play Pig and discover half her power doesn't work… I'm not AMAZING god tier at Killer, personally I would like to have something to help gen speed. I'm not out here stacking gen perks, I just want a chance at the game. Ideally as Killers I enjoy. I don't enjoy Nurse, Blight, Ghoul, and Wesker. :(
@SimpleYetKomplex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911080#Comment_3911080
Ghost Face costs money, and it's clear this person enjoys Pig more. The fact so many killer players feel forced to change who they're playing during this event is absurd.
I mean Pig also costs money but you're right. It's stupid that Killers can't play Mains they enjoy simply because of how the event IS, Survivors really didn't have that same feeling in events that were Killer sided like Lights Out. Like, I lost nothing specific as Survivor except my ability to use perks and items, but Killers also lost their addons, so it seemed fair enough if unbalanced. Here though, Killers lose whole characters, several perks some of which don't even have to do with generator control, and sometimes even addons which don't work - Ghostface's Driver's License is a good example.
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Do we know for a fact this perk is glitched, or did they do this on purpose? We took possible infinites out of this game for a reason…
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I'm afraid it's just you. You're not intended to outrun the Killer, the real purpose of chase is to waste as much time for your team as possible. Both sides are supposed to be able to complete their goal.
In old ancient times DBD, you COULD loop a Killer forever, like, actually forever. No haste required. You were able to loop some structures that were so strong, the Killer literally could not catch you. Bloodlust was created to fix this, haste and hinder were created later, perks were created ton help, tiles were nerfed and maps rebalanced to help. All positive changes for the game.
The idea is you need to use mindgames to shake Killers and break chase. That's on the Survivor to do. Just like for M1 Killers, mindgames are meant to be used to trick Survivors into bad plays and get hits. That's bread and butter Killer play for most Killers actually. M2s chase differently but still play around tiles. Some Killers ignore this entirely and that's problematic.
You were never supposed to break away from Killers for good. It simply was not and isn't fair.
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I would absolutely creep around as Survivor in a Ghostface Mask just to mess with people.
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I think you should be able to have the same perks, I just don't think the bonuses should stack. That is, I think certain bonuses need to cap.
For the same reason a Killer should not have four perks that all slow generator repair to a crawl by stacking bonuses to an obscene amount, Survivors should not be able to coordinate in ways to run a bunch of items and perks on their SWF to buff generator repair to an obscene amount (On one person as a Gen Jockey is OK, just not everyone). It shouldn't be possible IMHO for generator speed to dip below -25%, or above +25% for anyone. Cap it.
I feel similarly about haste and hinder stacking, I am glad it was removed despite the fact it could make some pretty fun builds. It was pretty unfair to have situations where Killers could never catch Survivors (like with MFT+Hope or MFT and other haste buffs), or where Survivors were stunned for ages in ways they could not avoid while in chase. I believe something similar needs to be done for other stuff. -
@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
How many events that were Killer friendly?
Irrelevant to this event, I'm afraid. No event should be "sided".
@scoser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910967#Comment_3910967
Killer players spamming the ghoul and survivors refusing to play against it skewing the amount of players on each side is a separate problem from making most other killers have a terrible time in the event mode.
I actually think the Ghoul existing is also irrelevant to this event. The Ghoul just dropped a week ago and was already overly strong then, so what changed here? Nothing, except he's one of the Killers that can compete without generator controls and is fast enough to cross maps super quick to check on the quicker generators. Because he's currently overtuned.
I agree though, the fact that Killers feel they HAVE to use Killers like Ghoul in this mode to stand a chance is an issue, and ruins the game for Survivors too. Everyone gets to have a bad time. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910832#Comment_3910832
I mean it's not like new distortion is bad either, I love the new variant as someone who likes to mix up my chases.
I used old Distortion a lot on my Nea build, she's my stealth Surv. I still like to be a stealthy Survivor more or less.
I still like new Distortion. I just had to get better at chase to appreciate it. Old Distortion did not let me learn chase, I was too busy hiding. Now, I know how to loop better because I was forced to break out of my comfort zone.
Old Distortion was a problem, it led to whole builds, Killer tools, and Killer powers being invalidated, one perk was invalidating up to 50+ different addons, perks, and Killer powers. That wasn't fair, obviously, and it led to really nasty situations where Killers ended up tunnelling anyone without it because they couldn't find the people with it, making tunnelling worse than it already is and has been. Plus people would hide with it to sell their team out doing nothing in hopes of hatch. That wasn't fair to anyone, Killer or Survivor!
So they changed it. Now, I am rewarded for taking chase with my preferred playstyle. It's a win win! -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910809#Comment_3910809
I don't quite buy that argument. I mean, even if we were to assume flashbangs are dead in the water (which I'm on the fence about for now), that doesn't kill the playstyle of going for saves, it just means you don't use flashbangs for it.
Same for Distortion. Even if that perk were gutted (which I am not on the fence about; it's still a very good perk), that doesn't kill stealth. You just play for stealth with different tools, or in a different way.
What it actually feels like is that the devs don't want either side to have access to unfair tools within those playstyles, which seems more reasonable to me.
This is exactly it, the Devs do not want the game to be unfair on either side. Slightly imbalanced by RNG sometimes, sure, but not completely uncounterable and unfair.
You never needed flashbangs to do saves like these. What about pallet saves, or flashlight saves, or fireworks, or using Breakout, or Sabo saves, or a billion and one other ways in the game to pull off cool saves without using an unfair broken exploit to do it?
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There's a very large difference between nerfing and changing something unfair.
Flashbangs were not like this before their timing buff. The radius was glitched and unfair. There were situations one side could not avoid being blinded in, there were situations that same side could not avoid by normal counters to other blinds in. No other blinding tool worked this way - flashlights, fireworks, none of them worked this way. Only Flashbangs worked that way.Because Flashbangs were bugged, or more appropriately, a model clipping error created a situation that made flashbangs bugged. It was exploited like one. Just like how the bug with Oni carrying at Blood Fury speed with Iron Grasp was a bug, and was patched. Just like the locker flashlight exploit glitch. Just like Xeno's tail being too quick on launch. All three were unfair to the other side, and all three had to be fixed. Flashbangs blinding when the Killer is trying to avoid them, sometimes in ways they could not even see or hear, definitely was unfair and unintended.
Fixing bugs that make the game unfair for one side or the other, in ways they cannot counter, is good. I don't want old Oni bug, old Xeno tail, or old flashlight locker glitch back, and no sane player who actually plays both sides of this game should want this back either.
I'm sorry your fun perk got nerfed. I felt pretty similar when M2 mains abused STBFL in an unfair way to the point STBFL got nerfed (my poor Myers… :( ). I felt equally upset when MFT got nerfed because it was too strong as a broken combo people were abusing with other perks for omega speed most Killers could not catch up with. Both needed changes though. You will find other fun perks. The perk is still there and can be used, you just need to readjust to how the angles work now. -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909163#Comment_3909163
In the majority of your matches, which are against soloQ opponents.
No, you wont. Youll win by tunneling and camping.
You are extremely out of touch if you think otherwise. Or baiting/trolling.I'm sorry you feel this way but did you actually read my post through or just skim? I just said that SOME chase pressure is needed, and it's often hard to tell a long chase from a tunnel for Survivors.
You can't just call a post you don't agree with "trolling" and be done with it. You need to engage with the post when you quote someone. I'm pretty sure we just made the same point too so I'm doubly confused where the aggression is coming from here.
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Blood Gens do not pip you, they don't count for Lightbringer or Destruction points as Killer.
So basically, like with 2v8 not giving pips, it's a test to see if people want more BP gain overall to sacrifice pipping I think. I believe the Devs may be testing doing away with pips and ranking altogether, and focusing on score and BP gain being higher like this is an arcade game. It alongside the higher BP cap may be a precursor to adjusting MMR to be more open, and removal of Grades/Pips.
Frankly, I think that would be a much healthier change for the game - make MMR seem meaningless by making grade and pips obsolete, and then just have matches be about scoring as many points as you can through any means. I think maybe the Grade system contributes to sweat by giving people a "rank up" goal to achieve, thus making them sweat harder to get what they want. You may think it doesn't affect you but psychologically, your brain wants number to go up. That includes Grades. If they just drown you in BP anyway, why does Grade or Pipping matter, why not just get rid of it? It seems people have more fun in the game when they go for grinding BP anyway. -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907963#Comment_3907963
Fire up isnt broken, it just doesn't count towards Blood Gens. Regular gens yes.
That would be the issue, perks that take tokens based on gen completion on both sides do not work on Blood Gens.
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FTTE doesn't encourage tunnelling. Everyone has an equal random chance to be the obsession, sometimes the randomness chooses the same person more than once in a row. Just like sometimes you flip a coin and get heads three times in a row.
It's not personal, let's not start assuming perks are out to get us now. Saying FTTE "encourages" tunnelling is like saying Friendly Competition "encourages" pushing gens super hard. Neither are true, they just give a slight boost to info and generators respectively.
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Oni feels like he may be bugged, if you demon strike against a wall or anything with collision, he freezes.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Has nothing to do with survivors or their side.
Having nurses and blights do it now.
Its sad.We probably should seriously question why Killers like Nurse and Blight are doing it, not why they're unskilled. "Skill-less" is a loaded term.
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Here's the thing I think people are not understanding.
Yes, if you HARDCORE TUNNEL one person from the word go, you will lose the round, as basically every Killer, no matter what perks you bring.
But if you do not focus on a weak link at ANY point as Killer, you will also lose as almost every Killer. Most Killers do not have the map pressure without heavy chase, or heavy perks, to just flip between Survivors easily like that. Most players are not gods. Sometimes that weak link happens to be the same person you just hooked earlier. Sometimes the Survivor you can find is the one who you have already chased. Sometimes you need to pressure an unhook and the person who decides to take you on chase is the one who just got off the hook. Sometimes things that appear to be tunnelling, or feel like a tunnel, aren't a tunnel.
I see this all the time as Survivor - it's genuinely hard to tell sometimes if the Killer is actually tunnelling you to be a jerk, or if you're just who they saw and decided to pressure. Wearing bright clothing and being a loud Survivor like say… Tapp, or a Feng Min in a pastel skin on a dark map, exacerbates this. I get targeted more as Sable in her Gargoyle Outfit or Nea in bright cosmetics than I do if I'm Adam on a dark map or Ace in a bright map or Aestri who has softer footsteps. I hear my friends in comms mistake pressure or simply being caught out first as tunnelling, I hear them say they are being targeted when they aren't.The word has become so incredibly loaded and overused at this point, EVERYTHING can be considered a tunnel, even pressure. Legion hitting you after you just healed and leaving is tunnelling. Ghostface stalking an unhook is tunnelling. Me enticing a Killer to chase me is tunnelling, Huntress hitting a lucky hatchet is tunnelling, if everything is tunnelling nothing is.
The problem isn't that tunnelling is worse, it's that griefing is worse. Tunnelling someone out to be a jerk from the word go is griefing. THAT is what the antitunnel is planned to address I believe, not EVERY instance of the Killer trying to pressure Survivors using chase. -
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908853#Comment_3908853
I mean, it's a question worth asking since the situation which prompted those bots varies greatly.
Should a bot count as a human player or (since the human DCed) did the Killer already got MMR? Or does DCing entirely voids any possible MMR change?
With the new surrender option, almost never ending a game without at least one bot, the question is rather important…
I definitely agree it needs to be asked, I would like to know myself.
I just don't know if it should affect MMR for either side at all if it is the case. After a while, fighting against or with bots feels like it's not a real round... so it shouldn't gain or lose you any MMR at all. -
@EinTheSlime said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908840#Comment_3908840
You can. On the normal Gens in the match. I'm confused by your complaint because you are acting as if the perks are entirely useless when that isn't true at all. If you wan't to utilize those perks such as Blast Mine or Potential Energy, you can do so on the normal Generators. You are even more likely to finish those as most Killers are actively protecting the Blood Generators since they are in locations that need to be defended.
It's a completely optional gamemode that offers event cosmetics and extra BP, I feel like you are being extremely biased about an Event that you can honestly ignore if it bothers you so much. Your MMR isn't even affected in this mode, so if you are not having fun and don't enjoy it at all as you stated, there is always the Normal Mode and there isn't really much more to say on that.
I'm sorry you are having such a bad time and I hope your matches get better. 💚
There's only two Blast Mines I can set per game. That's not fun.
There's only two Coup De Graces I can get per game. That isn't fun either. :(The issue is the perks are neutered and fun is decreased. Not that the perks are completely useless…
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908849#Comment_3908849
Ill vote for you :D
I'm doing an experiment, I'll see if making myself have a Surv avatar changes peoples' reactions. If so, I'll have to bring this issue to the mods… I suspect there's chicanery afoot.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
This event honestly encourages slugging and tunneling for pressure as most non s tier killers
This is my major issue with this event. Because most people do not play the top tiers as their Main, and because most people aren't DBD gods, most people need a little gen control in their loadout. Personally I like weaker picks like Surge and Thrilling Tremors (my favorite perk!), or perks like Grim Embrace that encourage spreading hooks for fair play, because I don't like using perks I find unfun to verse (like Pain Resonance), so I use most very strong regression or control sparingly as a result. I do this even on low tier M1s, I limit myself to one or maybe two gen perks because I hate four slowdown builds. It's not that you need the gen perks necessarily, but a lot of people DO need them to do well, for better or worse, and the game is honestly balanced around them.
This mode removes those. Like in Lights Out before it removing crucial perks for weaker Survivor players such as WoO or Lithe, this mode removes generator perks weaker Killer players genuinely may need, and that feels very bad for people who are not as good at the game. It encourages comp, and encourages them to do things like tunnel or camp as a fallback like you say here, Sholf. And it also neuters some Killers with weaker kits who may actually need and benefit from those perks, which feels very unfair to them. It's not necessarily an issue for someone quite good at Killer, who is playing a strong Killer, or who plays a Killer that forces other objectives. But it's a big issue when you're playing say, someone like Doctor, who often builds around generator skillchecks or at least some generator control. It's a big issue when you play someone like Myers, who does not cover ground very fast until his power builds. It's an issue when you're playing someone like Ghostface, who has no chase pressure and no map control without running any generator perks and some chase perks.
It's an issue that is not given much sympathy I fear, because it feels like there's been a huge increase in animosity to people playing Killer even when they don't tunnel or slug at all… But it's still an issue, because it badly degrades the quality of game for everyone. When Killers feel their only shot is to sweat and play mean, that ruins Survivor games, and that makes them sweat which makes the Killers play even harder. Thus the cycle continues…
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That's grand. Now I can benefit from the boost, but don't have to worry about the crappy Survivor bloodpoints, or how fast the gens are when I just want to play a simple M1 Killer like Ghostface or Pig. And, my perks work in the main mode both sides! I can run Unforeseen Myers and Blast Mine Jill again!
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I would have hoped they would have taken feedback on this event more seriously. I know it's only the third day but I already feel kinda… over it. Both sides.
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People seem to like me when I play Ghostface or Pig.
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The idea is really cool, I just think they forgot that some Killers really do struggle more without some form of generator control. Not everyone has a mobility power. Plus, not all Killer players are gods and it's often hard to split pressure four ways for certain Killers especially the weak ones. If your weakness is chase, you definitely aren't going to be able to use chase as pressure as well as Blight or something.
It's fine to disallow these perks to work on blood gens for now. But if these gens come to the main game, either some Killers need serious buffs to basic gen regression, the gens have to be significantly slowed down, or certain perks must be changed to work on ALL gens. At the very least certain blocking and kicking perks should work; not every Killer is good at map pressure after all. Right now they just feel like a hard nerf to non mobile Killers and a nuisance to stronger Killers. And these gens should absolutely not be affecting perks like Fire Up, Coup de Grace, Unforeseen, and Blast Mine this way, those perks should be usable with these gens. Otherwise the meta becomes only chase, aura, and hexes/boons, and that becomes boring IMHO.
I also think they need to have five pistons. 2.5 jerrycans is clearly too quick, and leads to an unfun Killer meta for everyone of "just run strong sweaty Killers or Killers that make you hold things". That becomes quite boring quite fast. It's kinda insane that we also have nothing for Killers to interact with involving the blood pumps, I just don't understand why Killers didn't get the option to interact with those and must content themselves with kicking the jerry cans if they're dropped. That doesn't really provide any benefit when Survivors can so easily grab and fill a new jerry can anyway, and only serves to waste more Killer time.
It may not be intended as a Killer nerf, but it really feels like a Killer nerf, and no - it's not all just based around gen perks not working, it's just that the blood gens are frankly too easy to complete and too fast. That means they are low risk high reward. The idea is sound. But they badly need tweaking to be better and fairer to both sides, here. I expect some growing pains as they become more balanced over time. -
I'm gonna be respectful to both sides here, and I'm going to be direct, too. It's because of the Blood Gens and how they work. They give Survivors too much pressure against most Killers on the roster because of how they are. That's what makes this mode Survivor sided.
Both sides cannot use perks like Fire Up, Blast Mine, or Unforeseen - perks that proc on gens but don't involve progressing them. This limits the types of builds you can do. nfortunately, while Survivors have a lot of different perks that can create functional builds, it's pretty common that for most people playing Killer, you need at least one gen perk. Most people aren't gods at Killer and most people do not just always play the S and A tiers, everyone else genuinely needs a little help on gens from perks. Disallowing gen perks, while understandable for a test run, nerfs most Killer players QUITE hard. Meanwhile Survivors still can keep strong chase perks and info, which often is meta as well. So it boils down to Killers not having their meta or their helper perks, but Survivors getting to keep all theirs, which biases the mode towards Survivor side.Nobody can use tools or perks to push or hinder gens right now, but that does not really make a difference when these generators can be done in 2.5 cans in under 30 seconds if Survivors coordinate. These gens are much faster than normal generators are, and that can feel really bad when you're Killer and just trying to focus on chase. Now, some Killers may just want to do chase and don't care about the kills, and that's fine. But that's not the majority of players, most players are playing to win or at least try to win a bit. It feels stressful as Killer to play against generators this fast without anything to help slow them down even a bit besides a 5% kick. It's also not very fair to Killers that genuinely do not have mobility or do need generator perks to pressure well, Killers like Trapper or Nemesis for example. They just… don't get to play normally because setup takes too long, and the gens are half gone before they can start even getting the ball rolling.
This limits viable Killers for the event to harvest BP. You need to have some combo of mobility or split-pressure basekit, no other Killers really work here. It feels quite bad to run around and try only to have a round end before you can begin, so a lot of the Killers people may otherwise play - weaker Killers that give Survs a breather - don't get played.
It also means Killers feel the only way they can pressure is to play in very unfun sweaty ways - by engaging in more tunnelling and slugging, or by playing very strong Killers that excel at those things, in this mode. I have seen only three kinds of Killers this event: Hardcore sweaters who go nuts with the strongest Killers from the word go, and Farmers who don't really try. Oh, and a lot of the Ghoul. All three of those are quite boring after a while of facing them, which negatively impacts my experience as a Survivor because now I feel I have to sweat in case I get another angry Blight, which means this poor Myers who just wanted to jumpscare and farm a bit has to deal with me sweating. It creates a vicious circle.Blood Gens often spawn too close to Blood Pumps. Other times they spawn too FAR from them. This can change how well Survivors perform in a way that isn't really very fun for either side, but quite often they spawn too close and that tends to favor Survivors a bit more. I for instance keep spawning right near Blood Pumps and not too far from Blood Gens. That feels a little rough for some of the weaker Killers. There is not a compensation effect to make these gens slower or riskier, the loss of blood for running isn't enough of a downside and doesn't slow the generator fueling at all, and the effect can be negated entirely if you run Fixated and walk with one. This means there is no natural risk to doing these gens versus a normal one, so that means Killers feel even more pressured to waste time kicking gens. And as we know, wasting time as Killer isn't good.
Bloodshot Eyes don't seem to grant points properly, especially for Survivor side, so you have to be aggressive with the gens as Survivor. This means someone may snipe your jerrycan, snipe finishing your gen, etc. Only the finishing Survivor gets the points so you HAVE to be aggro if you want any points. This means everyone slams gens really hard for points, which means efficiency, which is an issue for some Killers - they don't all perform the same with no generator control against coordination like this. That creates more pressure and stress for most Killers, and encourages them to pressure with what they have left in their kit TO pressure: slugging, tunnelling and camping, which most players fall back on because most players are not gods at Killer. This leads to unfun matches for Survivor.
Some Killers whose powers work on or can affect generators lose those aspects of their power, because these gens don't count as generators. For example Pig's headtraps do not work when the Blood Gens are done, and Freddy can't teleport to them. They lose fundamental aspects of their kits. It appears Knight's guards cannot kick these gens, and Plague cannot puke on them. Some Killers have addons affected - Ghostface's Driver's License does nothing to these generators, meaning he can't run this addon as it is useless. Some Killers with item spawns, like Sadako and Xenomorph, get their items messed with by the blood gens and pumps even though they use hook and gen spawn logic - they end up with dead zones or with their stations too far away to affect the blood gens and properly patrol for pressure, which is an issue for them. If people use things like Cobblers or coins, it affects them even more. That means these Killers are disproportionately affected and playing as them feels worse, so nobody wants to seriously play them in this mode.
The compensatory bloodpoints are nice, and you do get a lot more as Killer. If you can make the round last long enough to capitalize on it. But otherwise, there's nothing new or special for Killers here, and a lot of drawbacks unless you play really strong Killers or quite sweaty. It feels very stressful, and that's not a good thing. -
It's better than facing constantly sweaty Killers as Survivor because the gens are super fast so Killers only play the high tier high mobility Killers… It hasn't been fun for me either side.
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I don't see how they would affect MMR at all.
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I really wish we could do that tbh, I don't understand why we can't.
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I love how I'm saying the same things as everyone else here is, but I'm the only one who's being harassed by a downvote troll brigade. Lovely.
At least be consistent, people.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908616#Comment_3908616
So you think it's intended that survivors can get permanently stuck at walking speed? I would call that a gamebreaking, unfair and really nasty bug.
Survivors getting stuck at walking speed? I genuinely haven't experienced that against him… This is actually the first I've heard of it. No need to come at me.
If it's truly a glitch, report it under Bugs, don't vent about it here where the Devs don't check. -
I think people in this thread are not communicating in good faith.
Flashbanged needed fixed. They were fixed. This is how Devs believe they should work, and I'm sorry for those who enjoy it but it looks like that's not changing. I hope you can find new perks to have fun with instead.I'll be leaving now, because it's clear we can't have a mature discussion about why this change was made without making excuses or being rude about it. I really did try. :(
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@EinTheSlime said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908597#Comment_3908597
Fair enough, sometimes it's just not for everyone. Honestly I feel that events should run perkless, but that's just me and I can understand how others would feel the other way about it given that not everyone is a god at the game and some of the Perks are immensely helpful to them.
I'm also not sure what you mean that your Perks don't work on the Gens? Sure not the Blood Generators as those are Event related, but there are normal Gens in the match that still can be affected by your Perks. So for the Killer you are supposed to go kick the Blood Generator as that is what helps progress the Milestone as it says in the Event Details.
The Blood Generators are usually together and replace prime Generators that are the most sought after for completion to not have a strong 3 Gen. You can play perkless as a Killer and earn upwards of 100k+ BP just by going around and focusing on Blood Gens and playing pretty normally. You are not earning or losing MMR in Event Modes anyway, so it's not like you have to absolutely try your hardest.
In the end the Event Mode is just supposed to be a way to earn extra Bloodpoints and get a little twist on the normal gameplay loop.
Here's the thing, even as Survivor I can't run perks like Blast Mine or Potential Energy, perks I enjoy using, because they do not work on these gens. I can't have fun getting extra points that way, I can't make the gens more engaging, I'm stuck with only chase, aura, and stealth.
I don't enjoy that. At all. And of course, Killers lose access to perks like Coup de Grace, Unforeseen, etc. on these gens. It actively neuters gameplay for the sake of a new mechanic that seems to not have been fully tested. That's my real issue. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908599#Comment_3908599
I didn't use it to harass killers, it was an effective way to break chase or save another survivor who was being tunneled in some cases (buying time), so that's nonsense… also annoy killers makes no sense, our job is to waste time so our team mates can do the objective? I was doing it last patch, I just havn't tested it this patch due to the new gens not working with it,
Pallet stuns is no different to head on stuns, like I understand if you find it annoying, but I honestly am saying I don't think it was used that way (to be clear I'm not on about locker saves just head on flash bang and then run.)I'm sure you didn't, I'm sure you're a responsible kind Survivor who just wants to properly waste time for your team to get things done, but enough people were doing it to actively annoy Killers - especially Killers that already struggle in chase - that it really was unfun and unfair for those players, so they had to remove it. If you want someone to blame for getting a playstyle nerfed, blame the people who used it to harass other players, not the people who were harassed.
It's not about "oh but I don't do that, I don't think it was meant to be used that way so why can't it come back?" It's about the fact it was being used that way, and that is not the way you're intended to use it. So as per usual, people abusing a thing that is supposed to be tactical - like hook grabs and the Oni glitch where his Blood Fury interacted oddly with Iron Grasp to create speed he shouldn't have had - to grief has caused it to be removed for everyone.
I'm so sorry your fellow players were jerks about using a playstyle you found fun. I was sad when they nerfed Xeno's tail too, it ruined the Killer for me but I respect it was a glitch that had to go for the good of everyone. The same is true here, even if it's disappointing. Unfun and abuseable for some means bad for all, for the health of the game things like that have to be fixed. -
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908622#Comment_3908622
Yeah basically. It's not tunneling if you're healing under hook, sitting on a gen injured instead of healing or I just happen to teleport and run into you. Like I'm not trying to go for you but if you end up in front of me I'm not gonna be like, "oh shoot my bad bro, let me not take this free down, off you go". Tunneling requires intent, like I'm intentionally ignoring others for you. More often then not its coincidence or the person getting punished for bad plays or risks they take.
First Chaos Shuffle I had someone angry I won the round as Legion accuse me of tunnelling. I was given a chase build and wanted to use it to the full extent, this Jane ran me for a good minute or so and the team still only got a gen done. She was my first hook and I was rusty at Legion, coming back from a long absence as them. I played very poorly, admittedly. I still did ok.
Then she got mad when I found her unhooking her friend, all I wanted to do was proc my Frenzy so I hit her and the friend, then left to find someone else. NOT TUNNELLING, just activating my power and leaving to let them heal. I was trying to maximize Frenzy to have fun and remember how you play Legion because again… I was coming back from an absence TO Legion. I found and hooked someone else, so clearly did not tunnel her.
Then when I was in Frenzy later, having gotten to full stacks (yay!) I found her still injured and downed her while she was hiding not even helping her team do gens (they were three down by this point and I was not doing well). I hooked her. She gave up on second hook, waited another five minutes while I finished the round, played with the excellent looper Zarina to practice M1 chase before ending the round as a 4k, and the second I enter the endgame lobby, Jane lashes into me about tunnelling, but I never once tunnelled her. All I did was use my power and try to derust, and I was still branded a tunneller for it.
She was a salty TTVer. She then also called me some pretty terrible names in front of her audience, she accused me of the most vile things imaginable. She told me she hoped I got cancer. She reported me. All because I played as Legion with a chase build and happened to win while not being that good and using my power properly. And most importantly, NOT TUNNELLING ANYONE, specifically AVOIDING doing it, all I did was hit someone off the hook with my power and LEAVE one time, and have a long chase at the start once. That is literally all I did.
That was the last time I ever played Legion.This is not an uncommon occurrence for Killer Mains and it directly leads to Killers just… not caring about Survivors' fun anymore because they're just going to be called names and branded as skill-less anyway, so why bother playing nice or simply playing as intended at all? Why not just actually do it so at least they aren't lying?
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908594#Comment_3908594
I agree with all the points you have made. Where I find myself confused is that the bloodpoint bonus has only been for survivors the entire event. This indicates that the feedback I see does not represent the big picture. I do not have conviction in my personal conclusions because of that. There is a lot of nuance because we obviously take the game seriously to post on here, but the larger playerbase may see things so much different.
That's true.
I actually really worry about the casual playerbase in this event; faster gens means sweatier Killers means a bad time for casual players. And most of the meme perks for Survs don't work either because they are used only for gens - there is only chase, aura, and boons/hexes for BOTH sides. Some of the best meta for Survs is in chase perks, and some of the best meta for Killers is gen control. One is missing, the other is still allowed.
I'd feel better if perks were missing in this mode entirely, or if we had some other way to balance these gens. I don't as a casual player like having rounds zip by at the speed of light and I really don't as a casual like feeling like I need to sweat to get a single Kill or like I have to slam these new gens to do anything against strong Killers like The Ghoul. It's clear both sides that BHVR dropped the ball on implementing these gens and the jerry cans, they're a very good idea with strong potential but they really need to be balanced better. This event was not the right time to do that; they should have waited, put it in a PTB, and just run the old event with a few tweaks for Survivor to make it less Killer-sided. That genuinely would have felt a lot better for everyone even if sweat still happened. -
@Blueberry said:
Actual tunneling I see very rarely. What I see very, very commonly is people “saying” the killer tunneled when they really didn’t. I find people tend to have a ridiculously broad definition of tunneling. Like if they go down twice in a row regardless of anything, they’re calling it tunneling. Like even when I play killer I intentionally don’t pay attention to hook states since I try not to tunnel and I still get called a tunneler quite often. People just throw the word around to take accountability off themselves in my experience. Similarly in line with the amount of swf groups that call “stream sniper” on basically any game they lose.
This is the case here, actual hardcore tunnelling is very rare. I don't see it much in my Survivor games, and I know it when I do see it. To me, Tunnelling is only actually offensive if it's CLEAR the Killer is a) going for absolutely nobody else(i.e. this is their entire strategy) , b) doing it alongside other egregious things like four-slugging from the word go or camping one person on hook, c) doing it because I'm a certain character. The same is true to me about slugging and camping, and I wish more Survivor players were like me and understood that.
What I instead see is people misunderstanding when they are being pressured for when they are being tunneled. I'm guilty of it too, it's frustrated me too. But when I'm simply doing something as normal as teleporting to TVs to check nearby gens or hooks I haven't gone to in a while to catch an unhooker as Sadako, or happen to accidentally find the same person again because they didn't hide or run away in time or lock my Dredge locker during my patrol, or they feed me stalk as Myers or Ghostface while healing under a hook, or they get caught off guard by a hatchet I lobbed at a lit up crow as Huntress and they happened to be hit before, or I'm Oni and they get hit with a Demon Strike I intended for someone else because they ran in after I hit them before… and then they yell at me in the endgame chat for tunnelling? Yeah that seems a little much.
Simply playing the game and causing pressure seems to be enough to be considered tunnelling, or slugging, or camping. And much like the AFC feature, I predict the coming changes will not stop using light tunnels, slugs, or camps for tactical pressure but will only stop the most egregious cases, and yet people will still say not enough is being done and they still exist. What they actually mean is not "I'm being griefed in an unfun way", what they mean is "The other side is pressuring me and I don't like it…" Same as when high level high tier Killer Mains complain about genrushing (I'm sorry, if you Main anyone above a B tier and you're upset about generators going too fast, that's more on you - I make an exception for low Bs and C tiers because they genuinely can't pressure fast enough most of the time).
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I'm not so sure the Ghoul IS bugged, I just think he's overtuned. A Killer being overtuned doesn't warrant a killswitch, that's for gamebreaking, unfair, or really nasty bugs and used as a last resort.
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@Emeal said:
I dont think Killer is significantly diffrent in this Event, sure we cant use specific perks, but thats only if we relied on those perks.
If you stop relying on perks to carry you to win a match you will fall down to an MMR where things are much easier to manage.I appreciate this POV, but the problem is some Killers have very weak kits and genuinely need those perks to function well. They actually DO rely on those perks for better or worse. It isn't very fair to expect a Legion to lose twice as many games to make it easier for them by not using any gen perks when once they hit a certain MMR threshold they genuinely need those perks. Whe you take those perks away and boost generator speeds, they stand no real chance - it's not a skill issue at that point, it's a balance issue, it's not fair to relegate these Killers to always only facing baby level Survivors who don't know what a gen is.
It also is known that you don't gain or lose MMR in the event queues, so "just lose MMR by taking the gen perks off" doesn't really apply here to anyone.
I respect you Emeal and your take, and I mean this in the kindest way possible. But I shouldn't really have to change my entire build and lose a bunch of games just to get to a "comfortable spot" with these Killers when you don't need to be that coordinated or even that good as Survivor to handle them, just know how to slam gens and loop a bit and you're good. Doesn't that seem backwards to you? Why should some Killers have to resign themselves to the low challenge level pile, why can't all Killers have the chance to be good even if they have to rely on gen perks to do it? Why have a mode that ruins that for them to the point their options are "don't play this mode you will lose" and "play this mode with the understanding you're going to lose and may not get many BP as a result"?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908383#Comment_3908383
Do they at least still work off head on stuns and pallets/windows?
The Headon-Flashbang trick was patched some time ago as it was also pretty unfair, unnecessary, and wasn't used tactically - pretty much only to harass and annoy Killers. That hasn't existed for a while, friend.
However, it does appear they still work off pallet stuns. -
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908118#Comment_3908118
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SCGW3R4IWKJG/screenshot-from-2025-04-09-08-43-49.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CNH7MR0M1EAG/screenshot-from-2025-04-09-08-44-18.png
Except it is because a developer/community manager has confirmed this multiple times.
I'm just… stunned really. Stunned that you posted what the Devs actually said, that yes this is intended…
And people are genuinely still so butthurt they can't exploit a glitch anymore that they're downvoting you over it and continuing to argue the glitch should still remain. -
@EinTheSlime said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907909#Comment_3907909
No, it's just an event. You can play normally and earn extra BP by doing event tasks. It has nothing to do with farming. If you don't like the event so much, you can easily click and play the normal mode. Just remember the queue times might not be so great since everyone is playing the event.
I would love to play the normal mode, but the queue times are quite bad there on Killer side. I don't enjoy having even my fun non meta perks as both Survivor and Killer not work on these gens, I don't even run much gen regression normally anyway and certainly not the meta picks 24/7. But it really sucks to have NOTHING, I feel like I'm being bribed with BP and that isn't a good feeling. It didn't work for me as Survivor in Lights Out, and it won't work for me as Killer here I'm afraid.
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@WolfePhD said:
cans should leak slower on the ground
cans should leak faster while running
killers should force gas can drop
I'd actually like to see dropped Jerry Cans be kickable to make blood zones or boost the Killer, or find some way for Killers to interact with the blood pumps. Maybe a "bloodthirst" event that could give them buffs when they use the pumps, buffs like some permanent haste, permanent faster break speed, permanent heavier kick damage, a single one-time-use insta hook, a temporary Undetectable, etc. In addition this makes Survivors have to ration the blood in the pumps too which means they have to strategize - do I do a normal gen, or do I do a blood gen?
All your ideas are good too, and add a lot more strategic interaction. I'm so sad we didn't get cool stuff like the Halloween smoke bombs or the invites from last year's Anniversary giving new powers, I really liked those. I also liked the blood zones from 2024, they were useful both sides if a bit boring. A fun event has GOTTA have something fun for both sides, especially if it's a long one… otherwise it's not really an event, is it?
As of right now, there is absolutely no reason for Killers to play this event besides increased BP - and Killers already always have that. I'm sorry but bribing me with high BP gains to play an unfinished and unfun event mode does not work on me as Survivor, and won't work on me as Killer, either. I do not care how many BP you offer me - I would much rather just play the normal mode here where my build and character choice isn't stymied on both sides. And it looks like the vast majority of the community, both Killers and Survivors, agree with me, for different reasons.
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Blood gens also feel really bad from Killer side because they are much faster than normal gens, and exacerbating this is the fact that many perks do not work on these gens. Survivors have discovered you can just work in shifts on these to get them done in under 30 seconds each, and if the Killer is not super mobile or isn't able to spit pressure basekit like Knight, you can't really do much to stop them from being slammed super fast. You can have the best chase in the world and play perfectly, then lose three gens in a chase that lasts not even half a minute… while playing a mobility Killer like Blight. That feels really bad, that is absurdly fast. It actively encourages Killers to play as sweaty as possible, which means slugging, tunnelling, and camping if you want any Kills. I thought we wanted to discourage those.
Add to the fact that there's not much interactive for Killers to do here and there isn't much incentive for Killers to play this mode period.
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@Shaped said:
I was surprised by barely any penalty for running with cans tbh. I expected having to walk to preserve blood but it's pointless.
I also noticed this. Shouldn't the Jerry Cans at least Hinder Survivors? Barring that shouldn't the gens have at least five pistons?
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I really like the concept of different gens too, yes. The problem is they were implemented very poorly. These needed badly to be PTBed, not just shoved into the event. Too many flaws with perks on both sides not affecting them, too easy for Survivors to do with no drawbacks, and not really balanced as a result.
They badly need a change before they come to the main game. I want to see them in main game alongside other kinds of generators, but I do not want them to come in this state.
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I can't say I agree, some of the weaker Killers really need some of those perks and I am not a fan of how the gens limit perk usage for things like Blast Mine and fun stuff like Unforeseen. Some Killers are hard nerfed by the mode based on their powers needing gens to work, and bloodpoint gain on the gens isn't very good because Survivors compete to see who finishes it and gets the points.
It just feels unfinished. It feels like Killer gets nothing interesting to do, but Survivor gets this fun new mechanic. I find it a bit boring, I'm just grateful most Killers I've met have been more into farming than winning. But man, when I hit the ones that want to win… my games feel just absolutely awful and the worst part is, I can't blame them. This mode massively disadvantages them.
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Having played more of both sides, here's my opinion:
As Survivor, blood gens and blood pump spawns are not great. Either they spawn way too close, or way too far. I have started NEXT to blood pumps. If you SWF, you can complete them in under 30 seconds per gen. Fun generator perks like Blast Mine and utility perks like Detective's Hunch do not work on these gens; I run Potential Energy a lot because I find the risk-reward of that perk fun and it doesn't work on these gens at all, there goes part of my build. That is a problem.
Even more of a problem: The Killer side of the game in this mode just feels too fast and too stressful for all but some of the strongest characters in the roster or anyone who makes you hold items (like Singularity or Sadako). I have seen zero basic M1s the entire time I have played, nobody is running 95% of the roster, the fun parts of the roster that encourage chase. If I do see these guys, they end up 3-4 man outed to the point I actually feel bad as Survivor. The issue seems to be that the blood gens get completed too fast, because there is no actual penalty for carrying the jerry can and they only have three pistons, so they are much quicker to complete. Add to the fact that no perks that could help slow them down are available to work with them, and that some Killers don't have the map pressure without those perks (even tame ones like Surge and Thrilling Tremors don't work), and a lot of the roster gets the shaft here. In addition there are Killers with powers that activate or can be used on gens that don't activate on these gens - Plague can't puke on them, Pig does not get her beartrap pressure, Freddy can't teleport to them, Ghostface's Driver's License addon does nothing. These Killers are some of the ones that need these pressure and gen perks, they literally struggle on some maps without them because they all (barring Freddy) have no mobility.
The problems do not end here. Fun perks like Unforeseen (I personally love that perk on Myers) and chase utility perks like Coup de Grace, neither of which are meta at all and both of which can help weaker Killers, do not work either - because they need regular gens. Some hex perks like Pentimento and Ruin don't work either, nor does Weaving Spiders for Survivors, so you can count most hex and some invocation/boon builds out. That leaves Killers, and Survivors, with no option but to run aura, stealth, and chase perks, often on a limited roster of Killers who best abuse those perks, and that isn't fun.
I don't enjoy only ever going against Ghoul, Nurse, Blight, Billy, Singularity, Sadako, and maybe a Wesker in this mode as Survivor, and I do not enjoy not feeling like any of the Killers I do enjoy except Sadako are viable in this mode. Even Sadako suffers. That's the problem here with this mode, it feels really bad for Killers and that by extension ruins the Survivor experience.It seem that when we have a Killer sided event, the game feels relatively OK and can manage - it's only bad for Survivors, but that side has enough tools and work-around like SWF, alternate metas to generator slamming and more to handle it. Sure, some Killers will still sweat, but that's true of the regular game too and besides, I can still win some Surv games in a Killer sided event and still find fun in it. Easier for Killers = better for everyone because Killers don't need to sweat to do well, so they can pick weaker picks, so Survivors can have SOME breather there. But when we have a Survivor sided event, everyone suffers, because Killers either do not want to play it or they feel they have to play the sweatiest least fun manner possible with the strongest Killers and perks possible, which only makes Survivors sweat even more and have LESS fun overall despite Survivors winning more. Killers do not have an alternate meta to "Strong Killer + Generator perks" the way Survivors have several meta perks. Killers have only one person to the Survivors' four people. It just isn't good for the game to shift in favor of the side that has more people power, and just doesn't feel great from either side when that happens. It isn't fun for anyone for rounds to be even sweatier.
So how to fix this event for both sides? I think the solution is pretty simple and I've brought it up here before:
- Blood gens should have five pistons and take as long as a normal gen. There's really no reason they can't be, blood canisters already are pretty easy to get and there's no real penalty to having a jerry can that feels workable. If your standard perks don't work on them and they come to main game (I think they should, I like alternate gens a lot in theory), we need perks that DO work on them and some perks must be tweaked to work on ALL generators. At least blocking and kick perks should, maybe not repair speed perks.
- Possibly, carrying a Jerry can should hinder the Survivor, and when a Survivor with one is hit they should drop the canister. It doesn't make much sense that loss of blood is the only penalty for running.
- Possibly, slow down how fast the blood pumps regenerate blood or standardize the spawns. There's a few too many of them and that means it's a bit difficult to control gens as Killer, and sometimes they are too far which is hard for Survivors.
- Allow Killers to trash or gain some benefit from the Blood Pumps. How cool would it be if you could permanently disable some Blood Pumps as Killer by drinking from them, and gain permanent buffs by doing so - a longer lunge, a faster movement speed, one free instahook, Oblivious or Undetectable permanently (maybe only against the Obsession?), more damaging kicks, faster pickup or break speed, an extra power charge or full power recharge, and more? How much fun and more strategic would that have been in comparison to what we have here?
- More things to do surrounding Jerry Cans so it feels more interactive for everyone. What if kicking or dropping Jerry Cans that got dropped made Blood Zones like in the original Blood Moon last year, that could benefit both sides? Killers get the megalunge and haste, but Survivors get suppressed Scratch Marks and Undetectable in them. What if using Jerry Cans on hooks could remove a single hookstage on the person just unhooked? What if they could be used as a partial, slow heal? What if they could be picked up and used on Survivors to create Broken?
Just some various ideas, surely others can think of more. Something ANYTHING for Killers to do here would be excellent, something ANYTHING to make these gens feel a bit more fair. As of right now, these gens are broken fast, and that makes Killers sweat which makes the game very unfun for Survivors. I don't enjoy having to run antitunnel rather than fun perks like Blast Mine.
And I really don't want to hear from anyone how "well Killers get a taste of their own medicine now!" If this is Killers getting a taste of their own medicine, why are may games being ruined even more than normal during events? Why are we creating events that give Killers the plausible deniability to play like actual jerks even more? I thought we wanted less of all that?
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@LithefinesseXD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907908#Comment_3907908
so flashbangs being dropped not at a wall infront of the killer and not blinding at all is a supposed feature me don’t think so
That's actually how they used to work before the glitches and for the last several years before this. You are supposed to time when you drop the Flashbangs, they're not supposed to be a perfect save or get out of jail free card. If the Killer was not blinded, it doesn't mean the Flashbang failed, it means your timing was off or they heard the sound and looked away from the blind… which is very intentional, because blinds are meant to have counterplay just like Killer powers are meant to have counterplay.
@HeyBlakee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907908#Comment_3907908
youre extremely misinformed and this update is NOT what that is.
That collision bug waa fixed a while back. As well as the sound bug that made them quiet. This change in 8.6.0 is something completely different and they were disingenuous about it in the patch notes. They tried writing it off as a bug fix when its a balance change and just didnt want people upset about it.
You're* extremely misinformed actually. About a year ago, before the update that broke them, Flashbangs HAD a louder noise and were easier to avoid. They had been that way since Leon S. Kennedy came to the Fog. They were originally that hard to hit with, actually, and were more a funny haha perk, not a reliable blinding perk unless you really were dead on with them. But when the perk broke, it broke how it interacted with the Killer's hitbox AND the noise for Flashbangs around the same time as other noises were glitched, like Footsteps and Huntress' Elk skin. At the same time Background Player was overtuned. Then they rebalanced Background Player, but forgot to fix the Flashbang glitch. So, the hitboxes were still off, so SWFs were using this to "wallbang" Killers - something that was never possible before and not intended. An exploitable glitch state.
Then BHVR fixed the noise issues, but forgot about Flashbang, so the noise never really got fixed until very very recently. When they did that, they also realized the glitch and patched it out, causing Flashbangs to work as they originally did. That's all that happened, they did not nerf or ruin Flashbangs, they simply patched a glitch that made them unfair. Just like they patched three gen builds, and just like they patched that Oni glitch that caused him to move too fast while in Blood Fury and picking a Survivor up with Iron Grasp. Those were glitches with perks on Killer side they patched out. Survivor perks are not exempt from being fixed when something is wrong with how they perform or when it creates exploitable, unfair situations.I'm sorry you cannot drop Flashbangs in the Killer's model, can no longer perform wallbangs, and have to actually time your Flashbangs perfectly in chase to make them function. They still work off pallet stuns as intended. They still blind. You just have to actually try now. Kinda like how now, Killers have to actually try to use Xeno's tail, which was also too strong in a glitched unintended way on launch.
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I think five pistons on the blood gens, slow the refueling animation, and give some benefit to Killers if they use the Blood Pumps. What if using them denied blood to Survs but also gave you a superlunge, or a buff to haste, or an instant down for a limited time, or temporarily blocked some gens or slowed them for you, or let you break pallets and doors by walking through them, or gave you a faster pickup? Something cool for Killers would have been very nice to have, and made these new props more viable for M1s especially low mobility Killers.
What if Killers could drink the blood for a "Bloodthirst" boost and thus use the pumps that way? I liked how the herbs in the RE 2v8 did this for both sides, why not do that here? SOMETHING for Killers to balance how gamechanging these gens are…