LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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I feel like these gens that need to be fueled up (but can't be repaired) should be mixed in with the normal gens (that don't need fuel but do need repairs) in the main mode to a) make the games a bit longer, b) add more for Survivors to do.
This fixes a lot of issues with the game in three big ways:
1) Survivors have more "enrichment" and may be inclined to run things OTHER than genrushing builds or toolboxes, giving them a reason to focus on chase and more interaction with the Killer AND additional points. Survivors will be more surprised and could find new ways to strategize with these generators in play, meaning now it's not all just as simple as "stall while the rest of us do gens". Survivors also get more breathing room to explore the map and strategize knowing the Killer won't just feel the need to tunnel and push as hard as they can from the word go, since gens don't pop as fast anymore.
2) Killers will have breathing room where they know three gens won't pop first chase and they can set up, interact, intercept Survivors, and have dynamic chases that go on for a long thrilling time. It also allows Killers that need setup like Trapper or Ghostface to use their powers more without feeling rushed to do it, meaning they get more points and more chances to USE their power, can intercept Survs in new ways, etc. It means these Killers may not need to bring as many generator control perks, or any of those perks.
3) This sort of generator opens the possibility of new items, new addons, new perks, and new dynamic interplay with Killer powers. Future perks, items, addons, and Killer Powers can alter some gens more than others, and older Killers can be adjusted for these new generator tools. There could even be new offerings for Killer and Survivor that alter kind of Generator, making some more repair based or some more fuel based, altering repair speeds, altering how hard skillchecks are, etc.In both cases the Killer hitting or kicking the gen perk or not should set back the progress a bit, that way the challenge is consistent. It could be as simple as causing a fuel leak in fuel gens that the Survivors need to patch with a series of 3-6 skill checks before more fuel is added, as a sort of new interaction. Plus if you make the auras different colors it means strategy can evolve around herding Survs to specific gens, or trying to knock out specific gens first.
In any case, these gens are a win win for both sides, enriching the game for Survivors, and making space for weaker Killers in the roster to have more time to perform well without feeling pushed to the breaking point.
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I still want a surrender option for if you don't get at least 4-5 hooks before all 5 gens are done as a "I forfeit, good job!" option. I'm tired of having to play to the end of games that I clearly lost but the Survivors want to drag out.
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I agree. The Bots should not have perfect knowledge of ANYTHING. Code in mistakes or something, it's overkill.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904934#Comment_3904934
Chaos shuffle truly is the most loved and hated all at once…
I actually really liked the Candelabras they added in Lights Out 2.0 and want to see it expanded on more. It was fun doing Wolf-only Drac and Dredge was pretty fun and true master of darkness in that mode too. I also guess getting another My Little Oni event or something similar may be off the table?
I just really liked using Stealth Killers to spook the ######### out of Survivors in it. I also liked being Nemesis and coming barrelling out of the dark. I like how it made every Killer genuinely frightening to face, I want to see it more.
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The Devs don't make bad perks, they make thematic and useful perks.
It's the community and their meta-minded tierlist-pilled need to win E V E R Y game treating this game like it's a competitive Overwatch clone instead of a casual tag game with a competitive but funloving spirit that have decided a perk is good or bad. A perk's utility is decided solely by people who are competitive minded. That's the problem. Even more of an issue: As you get better at the game, you genuinely start to no longer need perks like Bond or WoO or Insidious or Lightborne. You've moved beyond them mostly and only would use them in niche cases or for comfort reasons. You no longer need them.The perks aren't actually bad or useless… you just don't see or need the use they have.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899099#Comment_3899099
And you are not entitled to pick the easiest game possible for you. Killers cherrypicking their Lobby has to end at some point.
@Topic:
Highly agree. Either it should be removed completely (e.g. by removing the pregame-Lobby) or it should be punished by a longer wait time. The more someone dodges, the longer it takes for them to find a game.Removing the pregame-Lobby is the better solution tho - it would not increase wait times overall and once you have 5 players, you can go into the match immediatly.
How do you know it's "cherrypicking the lobby" and not for a valid reason? How do you know the game didn't crash, the Killer had to leave, or the lobby had some element the Killer could not handle with that Killer or setup? What if they loaded in with the wrong Killer?
Survivors frankly already get to cherrypick their team, their perks, their map with offerings, their tools by stacking with perks and their team, and their information through voicechat. Survivors also will dodge lobbies if they feel a random is too new, if they get a group that looks toxic, if they feel like they aren't welcome, etc. It's definitely not just Killers and it's biased to say otherwise. If Survivors can cherrypick THEIR ease of difficulty and THEIR lobbies, then so can Killers. Either everyone can, or nobody can.
There's just too many reasons for the ability to leave the lobby being there to ever get rid of it. I'm afraid you'll have to deal with Killers "cherrypicking their lobbies" for as long as this game exists, because the Devs don't see this as a problem at all. Possibly because… it's not really a problem at all, and can simply be fixed by adjusting MMR to be more fair to everyone.But sure! Let's keep blaming Killers and ignoring the behavior when Survivors do it, that's been the way since 2016. No reason to stop now, right?
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903328#Comment_3903328
I’m sorry you feel this way. I do believe it has everything to do with specific posts, and also that there may be more survivor players than killer players. Every 1 killer there are 4 survivors, and there may be more survivor player on the forums. I’m not sure.
I went ahead and looked at your comment, and I also looked at mine. I talked about how I thought it was burnout, that people play another match when they really shouldn’t cause they keep hoping from a better one. From your post, it seems you were talking about how people DC to just “crap on your team and the killer”.
I think the difference is that you may have the belief that DCs aren’t indicative of anything other than the person who DCd being a bad person. Whereas myself and possibly others see it as more of a symptom. I don’t support DC. And I have been screwed over many times by those that do it. But I don’t believe (majority) people just DC to be awful. There’s reasons.
Depending on specifics in the match, in that persons day, or what’s happening that we as a killer don’t see or that we as survivor teammates don’t see. DC should not be glorified, but it should not be ignored either.The DCs have never been this prevalent in the game in all its years of glory, which I feel is indicative of it being more than just some people trying to “crap” on others. I understand you may disagree, and that’s fine. But I just wanted to offer some perspective on a possible explanation of why the downvotes may have happened. Also, some people are just trying to troll, please don’t take it to heart. And please don’t stop sharing your opinions. They’re important. 💙
I genuinely do feel this way, that's the thing. Someone here with a Killer PFP post a well thought out take, and then here comes the salty downvote brigade to crap on that. The bias for Killer Mains is inherent and real. The forums should never ever have added that feature back, it's starting to look liek the cesspools of Reddit in here and really ruins the discourse for no good reason. People here have admitted they ONLY use the downvote button to meme and ######### on others, that's it, it's only used to sow chaos and not to actually foster discussion. So why have it at all? It's a bad change. It needs to go.
All very valid, but it really ruins my night as a SoloQ player when a perfectly winnable round is destroyed by someone angry enough to DC, it's so bad I haven't played in over a month. That bad.
I am tired of people rage-queuing, at some point it stops feeling symptomatic to me and starts to feel actively spiteful. This is why I rarely play SoloQ as Survivor anymore. As Killer though… you can't pick your teammates and have no power over whether people ragequit, which actively ruins things for me like adepts, challenges, etc. and makes my game less fun. I feel OBLIGATED to let people go when there's bots, I feel OBLIGATED to play nicer instead of to my best ability when there's bots. I can be playing the most memey Trapper or Pig or chill Ghostface or Myers possible, and people will STILL DC, why?
Because according to people here those Killers are boring, or not fun, or have cheesy powers, or they fear I'll slug/tunnel with them. I don't. It even happens with my main Dredge, if I go in and do well as Dredge here comes the DCs, Entity forbid we end up somewhere with lots of lockers like Midwich - I have had people DC JUST because I'm Dredge on Midwich. It's really hard to not feel like it's personal when people do that.If they truly hate the game so much, maybe they should take a break instead? I promise nobody will begrudge them for it.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904931#Comment_3904931
Making the map bigger does mess with low mobility killers.
I don't see how it buffs Blight though?
I mean I might be missing something, but like Nurse on Gideon, it might not be apparent until you do it/have it done to you.
Big Maps mean more space for the Survivors to have to run to. Mobility Killers like Blight and Billy can exploit the fact Survivors must cross long distances in the open, which is a buff - if maps big, Survs can get lost in them and thus waste time doing, gosh, anything.
This also means low mobility Killers like Myers, despite otherwise having pretty okay and even strong powers for most situations, get the shaft on big maps - they have to cross it like Survivors and that makes patrolling gens super hard.
You really should not HAVE to have a mobility power in this game to have fun as Killer or get any results, and the Devs are trying to work to fix that. Making the maps smaller is one fix for that. If certain Killers are too strong due to smaller maps, well, then they can fix the Killers and nerf them a bit instead.
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It's real simple Wolfy… we want the game to be fair for every Killer. It isn't fair that M1s and low mobility Killers are "outclassed" simply due to map sizes, what about people who genuinely enjoy Legion, or Trapper, or Ghostface, or Houndmaster? How is it fair to them to have huge maps? It's not.
Every map is fair for all Survivors because Survivors are just the same gameplay with different skins. It's fair no matter what map they're on. But it's 100% not fair to expect a Trapper to have to play on a large map that Billy doesn't have an issue with, just as it's not fair to expect Huntress to perform well in an indoor map.Survivors do not get screwed over like this on maps unless they are small or have few resources, something that's altogether not that common actually - I can count maybe three bad Survivor realms. Killers often do get screwed though, handed an instant loss situation in some cases, based on what map they get - I can count many realms bad for Killers depending on the Killer, for example if I'm Ghostface I know I'm gonna suffer if the map is bright (Eyrie, Cowshed) or large (Ormond Resort, Red Forest) or both. If I'm Dredge I know the map could be a problem if there's few lockers or a bad locker spread (Ormond, Hawkins). If I'm Pinhead I know aiming my chains is harder in indoor maps (RCPD, Treatment Theatre). And then there's also a handful of maps that all Killers struggle on unless they are mobility or high A to S tier, like Garden of Joy.
The truth is, playing as Killer, you are far more impacted by a bad map than when playing as Survivor, where you are more likely to be in a group and have people who can back you up. Big maps favor Survivors, more places to hide and run to with more places to create hard to pressure zones the Killer may struggle to handle. Bigger maps promote behaviors that the Devs have been trying to get rid of - hiding for a long time, creating deadzones, causing generator clusters the Killer has no choice but to cycle between until the kick limit is reached, etc. It's just not fun for anyone when the maps are too big, and it just clearly biases the game in the Survivor side's favor, which impacts kill rates, which the Devs are trying to fix for ALL Killers instead of simply hard nerfing or buffing across the board.
And that's why the maps cannot and should not be bigger again. Because it's just not a fair playing field for everyone, and disadvantages some players more just because they picked a certain character and their luck was crappy or someone offered the right map. -
It's not that you're playing Renato, it's that - speaking as a Killer Main - in my experience Renatos are overconfident types who tend to be the sort to taunt the Killer thinking that they're looping gods, sometimes they ARE for a while… then they go down in chase in five seconds and proceed to be salty about it the whole game. That or they're always being SUUUUPER obnoxious about saves, blinds, being the hero, trying to loop you all round, etc. I genuinely save them for last and ignore them all round every time I find one because I KNOW all they want is attention. They're brats.
Thalitas on the other hand will whip your entire Killer ass around every tile and you'll laugh at her cheeky teabags, then gladly let her go. Thalitas are pretty damn cute and good loopers.
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I'm really tired of Chaos Shuffle as a filler mode. Fix the issues with it instead of slapping us with it again, and bring back Lights Out with some light improvements more, the 2.0 version of that was actually pretty damn good both sides the second time around.
FFS I don't even want to play Chaos Shuffle anymore and I used to love the mode, it just feels like everyone figured out how to sweat in it so it's not random, and now nobody has any fun in it.
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"Can we make the game feel awful for all M1 and low mobility Killers and hyper-buff the mobility Killers again?"
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@MrMori The reason you don't see people strategize in the chat is because they're usually in a Discord call doing it…
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Lettuchia?
This game is not about winning. That doesn't mean that a casual player should just have to tolerate losing 9/10 games with their SWF and consider that a "fun night" of rounds, nor does it mean that they can't be annoyed the game's MMR makes that the case just because they won the last ten rounds the night before. The fact, like it or not, is that regardless of your mindset in the game, losing due to things you can't control like MMR mismatches or getting a bad map for your Killer is not fun, and losing repeatedly is extra not fun. Is it fun for you to lose just because you take winning seriously? No?
Then why do you assume it's fun for a chill SWF who runs non-meta to also lose? Why do you assume it's fun for someone who rolled in with Trapper for a daily to lose? Why would it be fun for a random SWF who is just vibing to suddenly get that 10k hour multi slowdown HellBlight and barely get a round they die so fast? Why would it be fun for someone who casually mains Pig to get slapped around by strong team after strong team just because of the time they logged on, the maps they got, or having won the last few games? Why is it okay that I can be Memeolas Cage and get a Nurse who wants to four man slug and thus no game, how is that fun?It's not, obviously. And you're asking people to be OK with these heinous mismatches and never ask for anything to make the game better for everyone just because "You're casual, so stop whining and feed yourself to the grinder"? Come on, now… like, be so for real, friend.
Losing isn't fun. Thinking that losing becomes fun just because someone takes the game less seriously is a really tone deaf take, considering this game caters more to the casual experience of "you win some you lose some". You're intended to lose some, not win forever, but for some reason this community has decided winning is the end all be all. So now, "casual" is a filthy word that some use for "bad", which means, Lettuchia, what you're actually saying is "if you're bad or choose any character/perk that's not meta, you deserve to have a crappy experience by losing to alpha chads who win a lot, like me." That's what you're saying, that the casual experience in this casual-minded horror tag game does not matter and you want things to be MORE competitive with stricter MMR.
I don't think you would like your games much if you always forever played against people that were exactly at or above your skill level, though…
Having to tolerate occasional losses is part of the game but the idea that you should not care about something that feels bad AT ALL if you're casual makes no sense. I can get bit by mosquitoes in my backyard in a place known for lots of mosquitoes, that doesn't mean I have to tolerate the fact that the mosquitoes are there and can't ask that my county spray for them. A curbstomp mismatch is the same, it sucks to experience no matter how seriously you take this game or what side you prefer.
There's no spin here except the spin you're giving, this argument is so pointless and tiresome. Because losing isn't fun, period. -
@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901715#Comment_3901715
It's not "strategy" to mindlessly sneak up on survivors with little counterplay for uncoordinated teams. "Fooling" survivors is not skill, it happens automatically by playing a stealth killer and with this change even moreso, so long as you're up against a team that isn't an alpha swf. Word it however you want but sneaking up on people isn't skill and the copium is crazy
Calling a rational response you disagree with "copium" doesn't make your opinion better.
The devs disagree with you. Stealth is a tactic and does involve skill and strategy according to them, otherwise Stealth Killers and stealth perks would not exist. It's an intended and yes, strategic part of the game. Deal with it.
I'll be disengaging now because you seem to be looking for bait.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902933#Comment_3902933
I also really like to play against my mains. Sometimes i know what they will do before they even think about it.
Oh I love playing against Killers I play! I find it fun to learn from them if they're good, or teach them what not to do if they're not very good.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
WARNING: Likely an unpopular way of seeing it.
I'm just not a fan of MMR in general outside of a newcomer bracket being separate. With "proper" MMR, you're essentially always supposed to go against equal skill players which means if you're a very good player, every single match is a high-stress high octane sweat-fest just to pull off a win against each other. It just turns the fun game experience into a miserable stressful one. I'd rather just go against random people. Sometimes you'll have a killer who REALLY knows their stuff, sometimes not so much and you don't have to sweat so much and can have a more laid back game. "Perfect MMR" works great for low to mid players, but it's just a stressful experience for high players. You'll end up getting a fair mix of easy matches, balanced matches, and holy heck what just happened matches. HOWEVER, I absolutely do acknowledge that this is from the POV of someone who treats DBD as a casual\party game (like it's intended) and do NOT view it as a competitive game like some tournament is going on. If it was a competitive game, then yeah…equally skilled players at all times is important….but it's just simply not one of those kinds of games.
No, I actually agree with this. I don't like how as you improve and win more, your "reward" for your effort is just "you get harder opponents until you meet people you can't beat, then you get maybe knocked down a few pegs." And it happens both sides.
it's actually my biggest issue with the game and directly is why I take long breaks not playing it. It's NOT FUN to be guaranteed a stressful match you may be curbstomped in just because you won a bunch. That's not rewarding. -
Lose more or improve, that's the options you have. Problem is… all those Killers want easier games too.
This is because the MMR system is janky and doesn't do matchmaking effectively, and the game and community tell you winning is everything. It's not. This is not a game about winning.
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It's less Survivor-sided, but with less variety for Killer players. In general yes, it's more balanced.
But is it more fun?
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Any tile that I can mindgame and is not just a "haha I got here so certain Killers can't catch the Survivor" tile.
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Well, that's because DBD is not the type of game you win. it's the type of game yoy play to see how well you do at it.
Winning is not actually the endgoal after you've done it enough. Once you figure out tbe formula both sides, it can be replicated and easily done.
The goal of DBD is actually to have fun while losing, both sides. If you can do that, you've beaten the game and can actually enjoy it. If you're still of the mind that winning is everything, you're gonna have a rough time when you meet a team or a Killer player that is more than you bargained for! -
I wonder if I change my avatar to a Survivor PFP, will people start upvoting my takes…?
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Who cares if they're doing it or not is the bigger question. Why does anyone care what a player does with their MMR or not?
This isn't even happening, it's a rumor. Trying to tank MMR to get easier rounds doesn't work and even if you can get it to work by not caring for results enough that it happens, it never stays that way for long. -
You can't pay me to play Wesker again. He's not fun on controller, he's slippery and feels bad to me.
I asked a Wesker Main once if that was normal and they said "yeah that's just how he is."
No thanks. I like feeling in control of my Killer. -
They cause way more trouble than they're worth and create similar issues to down and up votes on Reddit. I'm seeing well worded and thoughtful posts get downvoted JUST because the poster has a Killer PFP, so the same prejudice as on Reddit is alive and well here too with the downvotes.
The issue with upvote-downvote systems rather than just upvotes is this: if you say something someone disagrees with, then that inclines people to go "oh bad take" and just downvote without really reading it. If enough people do that it then looks like that person posts bad takes when really, the person could have been downvoted for long posts, or posts that said something controversial. That leads to a chilling effect where everyone polices everything they say and some opinions never get heard - it could even lead to much needed balancing ideas being considered bad just due to number of downvotes.Downvotes are not needed in this community or any other forum community especially when we can just upvote to show approval. They're causing more problems than solutions and creating a hostile forum environment. They need to go.
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@Bodark said:
Stopped playing it a long time ago. Kind of sad that I have to go to the default game mode to have a less sweaty match than the fun mode.
It just goes to show that both sides don’t really care about fun that much and really mainly care about winning
They could easily fix this focus on winning by making it so that merely participating in the game and trying your best IS a wincon, that is, by making failure NOT a punishment but just "a thing that can happen." Losing has always been hard and unfun as hell in DBD, and due to how MMR works, the more you win the more likely it is you will face some really nasty losses that make you really not want to play.
If DBD wants to survive longterm, we really need to reconsider the way losing feels. Removing depips was good but not enough, Merely playing he round to full should pip you - playing really well, win or loss, should double pip you, and quitting early should be a depip. -
I don't want BHVR to do this mode, as much as I love it, again until they learn that items, addons, and map offerings NEED banned in the mode to keep it truly random. If you want items, go find them in chests, no more bringing in uber-toolboxes and syringes and the top tier Killer addons and stuff, or offering maps that tilt the game in favor of one side over another. That's not Chaos, that's manipulating the game because you know the other side likely won't have anything useful. It's crappy, it's unsportsmanlike, and it's sweaty af. And, it's not fun to face every round… at all.
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Stats are nice but I don't really care to know my win/loss ratio and think adding it as a thing would just encourage people to a) always play to win more, b) insult or attack others who have a lower W/L ratio to imply that player is "skill-less" or "bad" as a form of bullying, c) encourage a competitive over casual style to the game - opposite of what BHVR is trying to do.
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@tjt85 said:
I enjoy looping in 2V8 because there are lots of strong loops on the map in that mode (well, at least until the other Killer comes along to spoil the fun and double team you). Pallets can also be rebuilt and a lot of the Killers tended to be less experienced, so I felt like a looping pro at times.
But in the regular game, not so much… I feel like most maps are calibrated so that very skilled and experienced Survivors can't loop the Killer forever. Fair enough, I guess. But those of us less able to get much from the resources on the map are lucky to last more than 20 seconds.
I find memorisation to be boring and my brain refuses to learn even the fundamentals of looping. I don't like Windows of Opportunity and I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch hours and hours of YouTube tutorials to try and improve. I also don't learn very well that way. I learn by doing. I wish BHVR would add a custom mode for Survivors to practice in without the stress and pressure of a real game. One that would let me explore the maps at leisure so I could "waste" time figuring out how each loop works for myself, while the bots are slamming gens. Even something with just the tutorial Trapper bot would do, like the Survive with bots mode from the tutorial but with every map made available.
I much prefer stealth to looping, tbh. But that playstyle has taken a significant nerf, with the less foggy maps and the Distortion nerf meaning that more Killers tend to run aura perks now.
The Survivor side of the game is gradually becoming less and less fun for me as more and more anti-loop Killers get added and others get buffs. My skill is not improving and I've plateaued, yet the game continues to get more difficult for me.
That part at the bottom there:
My skill is not improving and I've plateaued, yet the game continues to get more difficult for me.
That's how it feels for Killers too after a while. "I can't improve as my favorite Killer anymore, I have plateaued, yet the game continues to become more difficult. Time for a new Main, I guess…"
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I only enjoy looping if there's a risk I can be caught and if I don't get a map where I can easily just run them forever around a god pallet, a god tile, a big structure, etc. The Killer needs to be slightly smart and I have to feel like there's a chance I won't make it.
I prefer hiding and barely escaping skin of my teeth from the Killer. I prefer feeling like I am scared or in danger, which is why I enjoy things like Chaos Shuffle or Lights Out so much, the unpredictability and potential for thrills is a lot higher. I like trying to hide and find cool saves more than I do having to run a Killer forever, any Tom Dick or Harry can learn how to properly run a structure. It's not that hard.
So no. I don't favor looping and I don't enjoy long chases much. They're fun, but to me DBD is about doing gens, hiding, and saving my team as Survivor, I don't play it to style on Killers as some god looper because I get bored if the chase is too long. -
It's just a fun number showing your dedication to that character right now, friend. :)
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This has been happening for a while now, since at least the bots were added. It's just a way of crapping on your team and also the Killer by refusing to leave them even the meagre aid of a bot.
EDIT: Downvoting me does not change the fact that people DC to ruin the game for others. -
@brewingtea said:
- Can we reduce the countdown to 30s? Or have a system where you get a BP bonus if you Ready Up sooner?
I don't mind waiting patiently until all of the lobby-dodgers have gotten it out of their systems, but since it's MY deferral that's letting thou pick and choose thy ideal match, could y'all throw us a bone or something?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899099#Comment_3899099
Oh, no, there absolutely was a debt. It just got paid by someone else so you didn't have to play the matches you thought were too scary.
As I told JP above, removing lobbies would do nothing to increase MMR, and would increase poor game quality by increasing ragequits. Most of the MMR wobbliness was already fixed by removing prestiges and locking lobbies would create similar issues to in TCM, as another person already pointed out. It's not about games being "too scary", it's about people simply not wanting to play against things they find unfun, as is their right in a game they bought with their money. So in fact, as I said from the start… nobody owes anyone a game. Hope that clears it up for you friend. :)
@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901789#Comment_3901789
I don't think it would increase AFK at the start of the match at all. You'd have to press the "Accept match" button when you found a match before you'd get sent into the loading screen and get into the game. I bet it would probably reduce AFK at the start of the game, not increase it, since you can be sure that all 5 players are ready to play when the offering screen shows up and loading begins. If something took your attention from the game while you were queueing, no worries, your search gets cancelled since you didn't accept the match in time and you can search again when you're ready.
And sure the survivors can strategize with 3 others, but that's only if they're all on PC and can chat. Or if they're in a SWF. Most players are solo, and there's plenty of console players mixed with PC players that can't communicate together in pregame either. In my opinion it's a lot more fair for everyone if everyone loads in with the same info, basically nothing except offerings. I hope they entertain the idea in the future, maybe run a test with it and just revert it if it doesn't work well.
Every single game with matchmaking has lobbies to let players strategize, change tools, or get ready should something happen. Eliminating it would lead to a lot more AFKs than you think, there's been a number of times I had to go use the bathroom or something before a round or something, or a sudden knock at the door has interrupted me at the start. Emergencies still happen, it's not fun to come back to yourself on a hook because you had to step away for a second. Again, hope that clears it up for you. :)
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901713#Comment_3901713
If you're a casual player you shouldn't care about winning and therefore shouldn't be asking for buffs, and windows just corrects for having to memorize things which is more of an inconvenience than skill
Do… do you hear yourself right now?
Why should casual players have to accept miserable rounds, often many a night, when they just want to have fun? Why is "winning" the rubicon for if someone is casual or not? Why do casual players have to accept losing as the cost of their fun because non casuals want to sweat all over them for their 200000th win in their Blight streak? Why should my casual SWF be punished because a Deathslinger wants to slug for a 4k? Why should my casual Ghostface be faced with team after team after team of high level players he can't handle with his kit just because I won a handful of games? That doesn't track. At all.
Casual players enjoy winning sometimes, too. It is not fun to be curbstomped nor is it fun to be the one curbstomping, I don't care how chill or seriously you take this game, the issue is not wins versus losses no matter how you spin it: we can all agree that curbstomp fights with no challenge or chance to win are not any fun, win or loss.
Shouldn't be asking for buffs? So casual players are never allowed to point out issues with the game just because they're casual?
I think you're a troll, friend, usually bait is more believable than this… -
@MrMori said:
Not sure why people are downvoting, this seems very sensible and the exact kind of situation which surrender was made for, to avoid already decided matches from dragging out. I think if all survivors are within 16 meters of an open gate, and the killer is farther than 16 meters away, the killer should be able to surrender. The game is effectively over, just like when all survivors are downed and they can surrender, right? Would save quite a bit of time and make killer a less stressful and frustrating experience in general. Sure people would play around it but still. I'd like that a lot.
People are downvoting because the downvote option exists now, just like on Reddit. Personally I think it should be removed from the forums again, to prevent simialr issues to reddit like downvote brigading from coming here. I see more Killer posts than Survivor posts downvoted just like on Reddit and even worse, it looks like people are being downvoted more for having certain avatars, and that's deeply problematic.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901721#Comment_3901721
That seems like just passing what you think is a problem onto other players, at the expense of matchmaking having its best chance to get something fair-ish, without the horrible backfilling. Over time the MMR system would even out a lot if we just would leave it alone.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901747#Comment_3901747
I have also recommended doing away with the current lobby. The killer should still be able to see items brought, to consider Lightborn or Franklin's. But going through profiles probably shouldn't be possible. I'd like to see that tested out, and watch how it affects matchmaking quality.
Unfortunately, JP, removing prestiges renders your theory here incorrect that removing lobbies would fix MMR. The removal of them greatly decreased overall lobby dodging, and you are correct that this can be seen as MMR has in fact mostly evened out due to less of it. The majority of lobby-dodging based backfill issues has gone the way of the dodo, but yet the MMR is still uneven. But since there's so little of it now, simply removing lobbies will not change much more - and will add further frustration. Removal of lobbies will not improve MMR much, but will increase the amount of Killers ragequitting mid round due to the game being too hard for their comfort level, either leaving the round or throwing to let the Survivors win. And, it will also increase the number of Survs giving up too, due to getting a bad teammate or the Killer they got being too hard for their comfort level. Nothing will change about the MMR system itself, meaning the issue IS with the MMR system in that it is prioritizing constant challenge based on how hard the player sweats for a win, not fun and balance or a decent comfort level for a given player.
In other words, the problem with MMR isn't that people are smurfing to get easier lobbies. The problem with MMR is that it expects the player to always forever improve to win even when improving further with a Killer or given Survivor setup just is not possible. it creates an "always a bigger fish" scenario where there is no feeling that you are getting better because your skill is rewarded with difficulty and inevitably losses instead of better performance or winning more. In EVERY other game, even difficult ones, your ability improves as you beat bosses or earn upgrades. Not here. There's no reward feedback loop after a while, just difficulty and challenge. That breaks the game's skinner box system and makes people simply not want to play. Compounding that is the fact sometimes it does in fact glitch and throw you babies or a nightmare group/Killer at the wrong time, especially if you are brand new or the data just got reset. How is that fair? Imagine if in something like Overwatch 2, you got mostly teams your skill level with challenge increasing a bit to match, but then at top rank you suddenly got a baby team out of the blue not due to dodging, but due to the game just messing up for the baby team. The same issue is happening here.
Many games are difficult consistently and do not allow you to change the difficulty. Many online games also use MMR systems to give skill based challenge. But no other game except DBD creates conditions where you can win so much, games start to feel like a Dark Souls run against an insurmountable foe with no rematch option or chances to learn from the mistakes you made because the game was never winnable for that player, which creates frustration. There is one type of game that does though - arcade games, which are so difficult because they exist to eat quarters - and when you lose, they give you the option for more chances to try and win in that given run. That just shouldn't be how home video game releases are designed.Besides, as someone else already pointed out you can't force people to play a bad, frustrating, unfun round. Forcing people to stay in lobbies they don't want to play in isn't going to make MMR better - it's just going to make queue times and the quitting issue worse, which will kill the game because people will simply not play. After all, why should the game decide how much fun I get to have for me?
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@MrMori said:
We could prevent all lobby dodging by removing pregame lobby completely. It would be much faster to get into a match, plus it would be way better for matchmaking. Just match 5 players, have an "accept" button show up, and send everyone straight into the match with their current build which they would be responsible for having fixed before they find the match.
The only downside is that survivors don't get to chat with others before the match starts, which is kind of sad and means fewer funny interactions like that… But this isn't even something console players get to participate in to begin with so I'd say the good outweighs the bad here.
Bonus point for the killer not being able to lobby shop, check hours of people on steam, check for SWFs, counter items with perks when they see many of them in the lobby. In my mind, the lobby just wastes time. It's neat and I get why it's there but it feels outdated to me and has some pretty negative effects on matchmaking.
There's one other big downside to that you're missing here if we get rid of pregame lobbies: the Killer cannot know if the Survivors do things like bring flashlights and prepare accordingly should they wish, or look at what the team has and think about how to counter it. That isn't "bonus points", that removes counterplay. Survivors have three others to make a plan of action with, the Killer only has themselves so having a lobby that shows the Survivors like this is not outdated - it's part of keeping the game fair.
However I agree, prestige need to stay hidden and I think we need to do away with allowing anyone to see anyone else's profile at all - not only does having us able to do it allow checking player hours, it also allows people to harass others off of the game if things go badly, creating situations where, say, a Survivor upset with how a game went can follow Survivors or the Killer on Xbox Live to send threatening or hostile messages, in a place where the game cannot check for or punish it.
One other reason lobbies have to stay: Emergencies or suddenly needing to take a call/address something happen. You will gat a lot more of the Killer or Survivors standing still at the start of a round if you remove lobbies. What if I'm ready to go but my cat just knocked something over and made a mess? What if my fire alarm goes off before a round begins? What if something boils over in a microwave, I feel sick and need to throw up, I lose connectivity, or I need to take a sudden important phone call and have to back out? For these little reasons alone, we need to keep lobbies.
I agree with joey above though - emphasis on team-based goals and other ways to win besides escaping/killing need to be considered. Most people lobby dodge because the Survivors look too difficult or troublesome, or because their teammates look too weak to be decent. It's why prestiges were hidden. -
@Thesevenspirits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899087#Comment_3899087
I guess you have never experienced the frustration when you vault with lithe and still get hit even though you are on the other side of the vault.
Why must you just two separate perks together just to give you a chance to mitigate this issue?
I know how the hit detection works and know it's normal for Killers to be able to hit you through a window due to how hit validation works, so no, I haven't ever experienced this in an unfair way, but know what I have experienced that is way more frustrating and actually is unfair?
Pallets hitting you when you are nowhere near them, and pallets not dropping properly when you need them to due to lag or server issues. There are no perks to prevent this.
And speaking of perks, I could ask the same of something else: why should Killers need several separate perks just to give them a chance to mitigate the problem of Survivors being able to stack perks, items, and themselves on generators to do multiples of them in up to 40 seconds at a time, often causing more than one generator to pop in the first chase of the game?Sounds kinda silly put that way, right?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899693#Comment_3899693
So your ability to sift through lobbies for whatever reason is more important than proper matchmaking?
Games should be fun first of all. The MMR as we currently happens allows for too many mismatches between newbies and experience players, and needs to be addressed.
You bet your bottom dollar I'm going to leave a lobby if my Pinhead gets a team of clearly new, itemless, baseskin Megs because that's not fair to them. It's not my fault the matchmaking failed to do it's job, and it keeps doing that a lot lately. Similarly, if I'm coming in to do a Legion Daily that requires the game to go for a decent length of time and I see an OBVIOUS gen speed Squad with a bunch of toolboxes, I absolutely should be able to leave that lobby and find people who clearly are not just trying to win super hard while I am casually doing challenges. I don't want to be sweat all over by SWF team Six or a Blight on his 1765th win in a streak, I'm a casual player and that isn't FUN. Bouncing between babies and sweat city might be fun for you. But not me, friend. Not at all. I want a more balanced experience.
FUN for everyone is by all means more important than an arbitrary number that predecides how difficult the round is for you, and doesn't even work half the time. I wouldn't be saying this if matchmaking as we have it now was working. But it doesn't work as intended, and it's obvious. -
I agree waiting in the gate for prolonged periods to bait/troll the Killer should be addressed, but I don't think that it makes the issues this mechanic is attempting to address, like four slug to bleedout, any less valid…
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@WolfePhD said:
My opinion? YES! WORK!! SLAY!!!
drone go brrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
I would play this killer and have fun with her power. I like that she forces survivors to crouch. That is a fresh and unique mechanic to me, as Hag's are not that common to play against these days.
Man I absolutely would play this Killer like this now just to make drone go brrrrrrRRRRRRRRR :D
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@lettuchia said:
No. Killers should be encouraged to use their power, stealth killer gameplay is faceroll enough as it is
I'm sorry but I really think you're misunderstanding this Killer, possibly because you may not have played him before. Knowing when to activate or not activate Night Shroud IS using his power, it's his entire power actually. Playing with the terror radius being there/being smaller/not being there is very important to playing Ghostface effectively, all half decent Ghostface Mains do this and he even has addons for it. It's like how Huntress Mains know how long to hold a hatchet for, or how Demo Mains know to fake a shred. It's just a lot more passive.
Besides, as a low mobility stealth Killer that by nature relies on ambush and not chase, there is absolutely no reason on Entity's Fog-laiden Earth that Ghostface should have a 30 m TR. It just does not make sense, and it actually hinders his ability to get close, settle in and stalk properly within a decent striking range before sneaking up in stealth for the down. The same is true of Pig, and that's because you're intended to use your TR or lack of one to fool the Survivors a bit. With Ghostface especially, the whole idea is you use your stealth to stalk and your lack of TR/small TR to confuse Survivors into bad plays or misreads on where you are.
These Killers do not need fancy kits or a lot of crazy chase powers, and not having those doesn't make them less skillful or easier to win with - it actually requires more basic Killer skill and makes them a lot harder to win with since you have no fallback if you fail. For ambush Killers like Pig and Ghostie, you're supposed to strategize. Basic M1 chase and mindgames can pick up the rest of the slack when a chase does happen, and DOES take considerable skill to be good at. It may not be flashy, but stealth Killers aren't supposed to be flashy. They're supposed to be sneaky.
This is a good change and a slight buff to a Killer that could use some buffs. Now all that's needed is frankly to fix his Reveal to be more fair both sides, maybe shrink what distance he's revealable from a bit to encourage stalking more or lengthen reveal time, and perhaps some addon changes to make certain addons more useful. These are all things I head Ghostface Mains say he needs, and I can agree as I sometimes play him myself - and if you've ever actually played him you'd know that being stealthy against and out-mindgaming coordinated Survs is NOT at all easy, NOT at all free, and does in fact require skill at Killer in general.I think you just might be biased because you believe M1 Killers are too easy to play and thus have no value, which just is a terrible take. Not everyone wants to play complex Killers. Just because you can easily spam a power without thinking, or the power has a lot it can do, does not make a Killer "more skillful". In fact, I'd say Nurse is one of the easiest to understand and least skillful Killers in the game compared to someone like Pinhead, Huntress, Singularity or even Pig or Trapper (who require planning things out a bit). She just is not that complicated.
… Actually, I would definitely say because Ghostface has a lot more to worry about based on how he gets his power and uses it, and how he is intended to stalk, he definitely takes a little MORE effort than Nurse does simply because you need to be clever with his power to do well.Mechanical skill with a power is not the only kind of skill you can have in this game. Or any game for that matter. Strategy is also a skill.
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@lettuchia said:
Killers that don't take skill don't deserve to be buffed
Yeeeeeikes, friend… 🤨
Question, what Killers "take skill" to you and therefore "deserve" buffs? Why do you believe Killers made for more casual minded and newer players don't deserve any buffs? I can't understand making the game worse for people who don't want to play Killers that require studying a power bible or who are new.
Imagine if someone said "Survivors do not deserve to have perks made for new players, like Windows, buffed because they don't take any skill to use or activate." That would be absurd, right?
Edit: Downvoting me does not make my question go away: WHY do Killers that are easier to learn not deserve to be buffed for people who want to play easier Killers to enjoy? Why should we have to play more complex Killers just to win consistently? Why punish people who say, like Legion by never giving them any buffs? What if the player has a disability and can only play these Killers effectively because others are too complex for them, why don't they deserve to have Killers that are effective and feel good to play?
Seriously answer me this, don't just downvote and leave like a coward. -
The problem is Overcome could create the same issue as old MFT, and that really isn't fair to low mobility or some M1 Killers.
I agree Overcome should get some sort of change but I think just making it last a little longer is enough. It absolutely doesn't need to work on endurance hits, the endurance hit alone and speed boost should be plenty. -
@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901481#Comment_3901481
Casuals aren't here. They play the game a few times and then get off. The feedback collected are mostly from people that want it optimized.
I'm a casual player and I'm right here, friend. I'd MUCH prefer the game to be less balanced for comp and more balanced for fun. In fact the big thing I want to see is a broader definition of wincons for each side, and a more depricated Pip/Grade system that is more about whether you stuck with playing the game than how well you did.
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The best perks for each side are the ones you have the most fun and success playing with. :)
But I lowkey think Thrilling Tremors is better as a "helper perk" than many people think it is. Spies from the Shadows is also underrated. I SPECIFICALLY love anything that enhances stealth too, especially to mess with perceptions on already stealthy Killers even more!
For Survivors, I find Solidarity more helpful than you'd think. I'm also a big fan of Deliverance and actually, Wicked due to the aura reading. Strength in Shadows is always a good perk. -
You should not lose your accrued points when you forfeit a game for any reason, that's absurd. You surrendered, you didn't disconnect to ruin the game. You just decided to gracefully cut losses and run. There's nothing wrong with going "I think the round is not one I can win, good job you're better, I forfeit." But there is shame in harming your team or the game by going "screw you I quit."
I would absolutely love to gracefully concede against a team which is better than me or a Killer that clearly is much better than me, if I thought it would prevent griefing such as teabags in the gate for no reason or four minute slugs while being humped on the ground. -
The hitting through windows is intentional, the Devs have adjusted it a few times. it's not always ping related, and oftentimes high ping Killers aren't doing it intentionally but because of bad connections.
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@shadow_V said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R3KTIBRA34NJ/b52bca27-09cc-4ae1-8c17-1c209c2282c6.png
These perks are being abused together but no one is batting an eye at it every post I've never made discussing issues like slugging or minor issues I think would help survivors if it was fixed I always get slammed down like my opinions aren't valid it's a free speaking forum I get that but no one ever takes a second to think maybe I'm speaking a little truth people are so quick to deny my claims I've seen killers use this build multiple times but nothing gets done about it
In this particular match the map was fathers chapel and he knocked down the first survivor on the second floor of the chapel then preceeded to hook her in the basement INSIDE killer shack and if you know the map you know how far away that is then took up almost her whole first hook setting traps all around it luckily her camping bar was full and she was able to get off but someone else got trapped and put in the basement
In the end he camped two of them in the basement from first hook to almost dead till he knew we weren't going for them then he found us healing and knocked down the third but by then it was too late for me to even try to get to the basement and I know people are gonna say that's just a basement trapper but that's no excuse to make two people die on first hook especially when you've trapped killer shack air tight and disarming them hurts us
Why is it that survivors reportedly are the only ones abusing perks/add-ons but not the killers? Because the devs favor the killer side why else are the survivors the only ones gonna suffer from the go next prevention (as far as what I read on the dbd forum) according to the forum we can lose an entire grade but it says nothing about penalizing the killer for slugging it just says we will receive a surrender option
I know they changed knock out because it was being used to slug but I'm a console player so I haven't played against it yet to know if it's strong or not (before you huff and puff about how you don't know what your reading it's a long paragraph that's about multiple things I'm telling you a little about my match with a camping killer while also expressing my confusion on why it's never the killer doing wrong)
Friend, all of those perks are pretty weaksauce or mid; actually that is a TAME build. It's called the Backpack Build, it's used to carry Survivors longer and handle anyone who tries to mess with the hooking process. It's also often used to counteract things like Sabo Squads, which are still somewhat common and can cause many issues for low mobility M1s like Trapper. It's also sometimes used for certain challenges that require hooking in the basement, which Trapper also happens to be great at guarding which is why he gets used for those a lot with this build especially. It's not "abusing" anything, it's called a perk synergy and it's a totally normal feature of the game. Survivor perks do it too. That's what a build is.
This Trapper is not an issue, he's just running the Backpack Build. He has no gen control, he is running zero meta perks. He IS using stuff to reset his traps for him, it looks as though this Trapper may have been innocently doing a "hook in basement" challenge and you just got caught by it. Of course he guarded and trapped the Basement, he's Trapper and he was doing a basement challenge. Your mistake here was going to the basement to save the other Survs at all, you should be slamming gens as hard as you can and ignoring the web of traps around the basement if you have a Basement Trapper. That is how you beat Basement Trapper.This Trapper is innocent and you're upset over nothing. It's okay, experience comes with time. You'll understand in time.
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Devs favor Killers, but they plan to Surv-buff Eyrie of Crows.
Devs favor Killers, but have repeatedly cut any small tools they had before (for good reasons, but still cuts that narrow the Killer toolkit) while not doing the same for Survivors.
Devs favor Killers, but continuously and needlessly nerf not only perks that were too strong and genuinely needed balancing, but also perks that were niche and weaker just because they were problematic on CERTAIN Killers.
Devs favor Killers, but add things to make them have to micromanage more in an already micromanagement heavy role.
Devs favor Killers, but refuse to buff popular Killers that need it while nerfing popular Killers that were fine just because enough Survivor players complained.
Devs favor Killers, yet whenever there's a glitch or problem with their perks they're quick to solve it while ignoring most glitches or problems with Survivor perks for longer - see old MFT and current Flashbang.
Devs favor Killers, but have outright stated here on these forums they don't favor a side, they look where the need is for most players and go from there.
… Yeah I'm gonna press X to doubt here.