LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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Just play Blood Moon, you'll get your Survivor wins of your dreams if you don't run into a Ghoul first.
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My thought was, what if Killers could drink the blood and use it as a permanent boost? This would add some strategy and make it harder for Survs to escape as the game went on.
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So it's a farming event for farming not actual gameplay, but isn't it a bit silly to expect people to just farm? Farming all event isn't very fun.
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That's an intentional fix, Flashbangs were never supposed to be able to be guaranteed saves even if the Killer is not in an animation facing the wall and looking up. Flashbangs have actually been glitched for a long time now, about a year - they could be dropped inside the Killer's model and the Killer had no way to avoid it, and people were abusing that to get saves they should not have been able to in unfair ways the Killer player couldn't react to. Just like how Xeno's tail was glitched on launch, or Chucky's scamper was too strong, or the locker flashlight exploit from a year ago was a problem so bad that all flashlights were killswitched.
If something is glitched or a problem to the point of unfairness, it's not fair to expect them not to fix it at all just so you can have a fun interaction.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907756#Comment_3907756
Because said people dont want to see the connection. They just want to strip away killer gameplay until they can get easy wins and make everything better for themselves at the expense of what should be the power role.
Mobility killers are just becoming the only viable killer in the game and its not going to end well for the game.
Well they have them now. I can't say I find making Survivor easier is any fun for me when I play Survivor… why bother? I know I'm just gonna win if it's anyone other than Kaneki, Nurse, Blight, Billy or Wesker…
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Ghostie should be higher than that but Dredge is where it should be. I approve.
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Pinhead's Box, Wesker's sprays, Nemesis' vaccines, they do the same too.
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Freddy cannot teleport to Blood Gens either, nor can Plague vomit on them to infect them. Perks based on gen completion like Fire Up don't work. Perks involving kicking gens or putting stuff on gens also do not work, so PGTW doesn't work, nor do for-fun perks like Unforeseen and Blast Mine.
I feel like they really didn't think this through all the way. It feels bad and removes so much perk diversity... This is so much more problematic than just having no gen perks or items either side… I like the idea of different gens unaffected by any perks or affected by DIFFERENT perks mixed with normal gens, I like that a lot. But I feel like they badly need a lot more work before they are ready.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907598#Comment_3907598
You know what...I stand corrected. Played killer to get a second point of view...yeah killer sucks for this event. I get they can't make a power for killers that would be over powered but yeah the blood orbs last year were better like cool you get to fill Jerry cans and do something not gen related but for killer you get nothing heck maybe something related to blood bumps like a interaction makes you gain tier 1 blood lust for a short duration or it gives you a boost on damaging gens and breaking pallets. While having killers tunnel and camp isn't fun playing killer isn't fun either with no special gimmick.
Thank you for actually trying it both sides before posting and acting like this is so much fun for the power role. It's really not, and proves why most Killers do use these perks: Because most Killers are not mobile enough without them to handle a coordinated team. You really need range, mobility, or speed in this event or it's a slaughterfest.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903065#Comment_3903065
This entire statement is beyond wild. If all the gen regression perks were nerfed to the ground as so many of you band wagon killers claim, then why are they still the most used perks in the game? You all wanted to overuse them so they got nerfed, that's how it works. You all tunnel so anti-tunnel perks get buffed, toolboxes get buffed, then you all complain about that and start slugging because "survivors wont let us get our hooks" so now anti-slugging is getting nerfed. You all just don't learn.
Another killer main finding any excuse to try and justify tunneling and slugging when in reality its a skill issue. I bet you tunneled and slugged before the gen regression nerf.
We now have a mode where exactly that has happened, and Killers are not playing most of the roster because it's too hard to keep up with pressuring gens when you lack mobility. What do you expect the Killer to do in this case? There's only so much improving you can do…
Slugging, tunnelling, genrushing etc. ARE intended part of playing the game. It's EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS of those that become a problem. Please don't cherrypick.
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@M1_gamer said:
thats the neat part…. you don't go to have fun in solo Q. hope it helps :)
Killer is always soloQ unless 2v8, Survivor SoloQ is not much better.
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There's a known glitch with Matchmaking and getting into rounds right now and BHVR has acknowledged it.
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I really just think they need to have generator block perks, generator control perks, and generator kicking perks work on these gens, it seems a bit unfair to have them take more time as a whole but have no way to be stopped unless kicked; most Killers aren't mobile enough for that.
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Any perk that requires a gen completing or reacts to generators doesn't work in Blood Moon. It's a nasty oversight that nerfs some of the more interesting Survivor perks, guts less mobile Killers' ability to pressure gens at all, and nerfs two Killers (Freddy and Pig) unnecessarily.
I get WHY they did this, I really do, they wanted to have a blank slate to test this new generator type. But they really did not think this through, this mechanic needs its own counterbalance or needs gen perks to work with them, there wasn't a good reason to nerf a bunch of perks, Toolboxes, and two Killers like this.
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I understand the pain of seeing a perk you like get nerfed, but the issue with Flashbang is that it was glitched in an unintended manner. SWFs would abuse this to place the Flashbang in ways the Killer genuinely couldn't counter, like inside of their model while picking up facing a wall or while looking up, and due to the way the hitbox was the Killer could not avoid the blind. The timing on this wasn't even that hard especially with stuff like Background Player being overtuned, so the result was basically an uncounterable blind.
That obviously was not fair for Killer, any more than the Xeno tail being over buffed on launch was fair for Survivors, so they removed it. Asking for it back is not healthy and the exact wrong thing to want in terms of game balance.
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I like the concept of blood gens, the problem is there's no equivalent balancing mechanic to help them feel fair for non mobility Killers. It really feels like you just get the shaft if you play someone like Ghostface or Legion. And it feels extra crappy for Killers that have gen use as part of their power, like Pig and Freddy. It just feels like unless you play a mobility Killer you cannot do much in this mode, and that isn't any fun.
Heard trapping Killers are doing alright, though.
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I love the idea of different types of gens for sure, to spice up gameplay, but I really think this version was poorly implemented. They should have balanced this a little better if they were gonna go with this sort of big shakeup but add nothing for Killer side to balance it, it just feels really unbalanced.
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Myers is a bit of an exception because he can one shot, but even then he still hasn't got much mobility. It definitely depends on his addons, yes, but I feel like even then that doesn't help too terribly much.
I do see your point, Chuck, I just am not so sure I agree with it entirely.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
You can tell where some people stop reading the notes… since no perks or items can affect the blood gens. That includes toolboxes, BNP, prove, deja Vu, etc.
There's also a secondary objective that slows survivors.
So exactly how are survivors gen rushing, when they're effectively perkless and have no items on these same gens? I know a lot of killers don't understand how map pressure works, but this is where you learn that gens aren't the killers objective. Go chase a survivor off a gen.
The problem is because there is no gen control, most Killers feel obligated to tunnel camp and slug. And because Kaneki is… Kaneki right now, most Survs are in the habit of slamming gens against him.
Add to the fact that Survs only get BP for blood gens if they finish the gen themselves, not for starting or maintaining it, so other Survs swoop in take the points and that pushes gens fast because everyone wants their Bloodpoints for gens.
You end up getting rounds where three gens pop in minutes and most Killers, without map mobility or any pressure, just… crumble. They crumble. Half the roster can't do much to stop it without even ONE generator perk to help halt it against a coordinated team. That's a massive issue.
Then there's the fact that not just gen control is being hit. Perks as tame as Eyes of Belmont and Fire Up are being hit by this, because they don't interact with the blood gens. You get no tokens for these from blood gens completing. You're relegated both sides to basic aura, basic chase, and basic hexes/boons… and that kinda isn't fun.
It's not that Survs are even trying to genrush, it's just that there's nothing to really prevent the gens from going quickly period because frankly, Killers cannot be everywhere at once and most Killers aren't mobile enough to handle coordinated Survs without at least ONE generator perk or a gen related power.
If that doesn't move you, at the least, can't you see how unfair it is that both Pig and Freddy lose whole aspects of their power because their power does not trigger on these gens? Pig loses her basekit slowdown with the hats which was never that strong anyway. Freddy loses his mobility period. Any event that nerfs an entire power of a Killer just for existing really isn't a good event, because it's not fair to everyone. -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907668#Comment_3907668
Yea I mean you are describing coordinated teams.
Has nothing to do with the blood event.
Thats just coordinated teams.
You dont need gen slow down on several killers actually it all depends on the addons and what killer it is.The issue is that this event exacerbates why coordinated teams are a problem for most Killers. There's a reason most Killers especially low mobility and M1 Killers run at least one gen perk.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I just came back from vacation, looking forward to playing again, only to return to a busted-ass killer (who is quite literally in every single match) and a very disappointing event. Looks like I’ll be playing killer for a while, in normal mode, dealing with the queue times. It’s quite remarkable how quickly the fun can get sucked out of the game.
To be fair I like the CONCEPT of the blood gens. They just really screwed the pooch by making nothing interact with the blood gens, so functionally you need to be a mobility Killer or the Survs have to be really bad.
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@ChuckingWong said:
I dont like this years blood event at all.
Last year with the orbs and the special situational abilities in range(killer lunge, survivor quiet suppressed blood) was much more fun.
That being said this mode doesnt highlight anything about "gen rushing"
This mode highlights the devs cant make anything interesting for this event.
Dont worry about downvotes and upvotes so much. They dont mean anything on the forum.I'm not sure how it doesn't highlight that generator speed is an issue when it LITERALLY shows that Killers really do need gen perks to stand a chance in the game at all most times. They took everyone's generator perks, tools and items. It shows how badly weaker Killers really do need gen perks to stand a chance against a decent team that wants to focus gens. That's a definite issue for everyone.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907619#Comment_3907619
I have no idea why the heck you are getting downvoted, It has to be either trolls or ppl who like genrushing and hate balance
I'm very used to it, I think it's trolls and frankly it's a consequence of downvotes existing here again. They need to go, they don't foster useful discussion. They offer nothing and are used to ratio and "own" people instead of their intended use.
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The event feels really boring from Survivor perspective too. Like really boring. And then people come in and snipe your gen to finish it and get your points for spending time trekking to fill the gens.
It's just not very fun. But funniest thing, when I posted this same thread about this same issue, I got downvoted to oblivion. Insanity.
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Flashbang had a nasty glitch for a very long time that broke it, creating situations the Killer could not avoid the blind in - like having it spawn the flashbang inside of the Killer's hitbox during pickup, or when they were looking up or against a wall not facing it. This was extremely unfair as it was unavoidable, so the devs fixed it.
You can still flashbang blind Killers, you just have to time it better and it has to be in an actual fair way now. This hasn't killed Survivor, it just fixed a glitch ON Survivor that was causing unfun situations. Kinda like the flashlight locker exploit glitch.
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I refuse to engage with trolls. Add to the conversation or leave please.
Survivor Mains are posting that the gens feel bad. Killer Mains are posting that these gens feel bad. That means the gens feel bad for everyone. -
@SlowLoris said:
I think this is also a huge reason for the "gen rushing" in the mode. It's not just the lack of slow down perks, it's the fact that you set the canister down, you'll lose it, so you tend to stealth a lot more to guarantee you're able to use yours…but even worse is when you repair 90% of a gen, but need a tiny bit more blood, so you try to go grab it and before you get back someone pops it….then you get nothing for all your work.
Please BHVR, please fix this before the event is over. It'll also massively alleviate the need to "slam" gens, because everyone gets credit. This is greatly needed, so gens slow down a bit, since slow down perks can't be used.
This is a big big problem on Survivor side, yes. These gens are just overall problematic for both sides, there's issues with genrushing because of the cans and there's issues with Killers being able to pressure them due to that and a lack of actual gen perk options to help. It's just not good for anyone.
Nobody likes being slammed with genrush, and nobody likes being forced to slam gens only to have their hard work sniped by someone else when everything is designed to slow Survs down more. It just doesn't feel good. From either side.
This event definitely needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907619#Comment_3907619
You know that meme with Principal Skinner? That’s you”Am I so out of touch? No, it’s the community that is wrong.”
Also, I don’t know if you know this, but fun is subjective.
I am far from the only person pointing out the issues with this event. Content creators are doing it, people here are doing it, Reddit is doing it. Both Killers and Survivors are saying the same thing but from different perspectives: These generators are a problem.
If most of the community is saying this event isn't fun? It's not fun, and I'm afraid YOU are the one who's out of touch. -
I'm just so disappointed. I liked the first Blood Moon, I was really looking forward to this one… :( Instead they made it boring just to test a new mechanic.
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Yet when I posted this same exact topic, I got downvoted to oblivion from the word go.
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And yet again, I post a balanced take showing how the event is bad for both sides, and it gets downvoted to oblivion. I point out how the mode is not fun as Survivor, feels bad as Survivor, and is too easy as Survivor - which it is, then give nuanced ways the game could EASILY be made more fun for everyone, and I get DOWNVOTED for it instead of actual nuanced discussion. Just like Reddit.
God, this community is trash.
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A mode that proves the game is balanced around gen perks and gen items both sides is not a good one, no matter how many downvotes you give it.
No wonder the queues are slow. Killers do not want to play, and gens feel even more boring as Survivor.
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I am not interested in playing an event where 95% of Killers can do nothing to handle the genrush, and every gen is a boring unfun slog with an extra step to do the same thing we always do. I don't care how many BP you give me, you can't bribe me enough to do it.
The game is at a tipping point where generator speeds have GOT to be addressed, and changes to what a wincon is HAVE to be made. Fix it. Slow the game down. Stop giving Survivors more generator tools and Killers less. Give us more wincons besides kills and gate escapes. Start rewarding casual slower play. Right now.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899085#Comment_3899085
That’s not even the worst part of it. There are now a lot less people actually engaging in discussions than before the change. Before they had to comment to say the dislike something and you could respond. Now they just downvote and leave the conversation.
Exactly, just like on Reddit. It's a real issue.
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I am not usually a tunneller, wastes time since I play mostly M1s. But I promise you as a Killer Main, if I'm actively hardcore tunnelling you, it's not because you stunned me once or twice. It's because you BMed or griefed me and I want to show you that such behavior isn't okay and I can and will throw the whole round away just to be sure you are punished for it. It's because you decided to try and make my game feel miserable, so I'm just returning the favor.
Thankfully, I very rarely have to do this. :) I'm a pretty chill Killer actually, just here to have a few chases and kill a few people.
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I mean I for sure would not feel like I want to dodge lobbies with clear babies or clear high tier players if the MMR system were more relaxed, and I knew I would not get ultrasweat next round just because I won this one. I would like my past results NOT to influence my current results, I would rather a more random method. I actually prefer how the event lobbies do it with MMR OFF so you neither gain nor lose, but have a sort of set level or sometimes get whomever you get.
Bring back the randomness and you will bring back the casual players. I haven't played since last 2v8 because it has felt so bad lately. -
@jesterkind said:
Are many maps actually getting that smaller? I can only think of three that got shrunk in the last couple years, so maybe I'm just missing the ones that shrunk otherwise.
Of those three, as well, only really one is a problem. Mother's Dwelling got shrunk but I think we can all agree that was an unreasonable outlier to begin with, Eyrie technically got a little smaller but not by a particularly substantial amount, and Haddonfield did shrink to a noticeably detrimental size.
That's more of a Haddonfield specific issue rather than a game-wide issue, though, so am I missing other maps that got smaller?
I'd argue that only Haddonfield is problematically small, it could become a LITTLE bigger just fine. All it needed was some loops broken up to not be so strong against M1s, the MINOREST shrink imaginable, and removal of unneeded things that serve no purpose to streamline it. Right now it's kinda pathetic and none of the original issues have even been fixed on it.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904944#Comment_3904944
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904946#Comment_3904946
So Big maps mean more space to cover, and Blight and such killers cover it better therefore they are buffed by large maps.
Meyer's has a strong power? What?
I don't know if you should or should not need mobility to enjoy the game, but I can conclude its critical to performing well.
Anyways, Its hard to argue that Blight is not faster than survivors, but honestly, I struggle to accept large maps being a buff to such killers, I'd more likely phrase it as: those killers are indifferent to map size up to a point we haven't explored yet.
For the average Survivor team, Myers is a High C to low B. He's genuinely fine and gets better on small maps. On big maps he suffers especially if he has a lack of line of sight. His power is mid, but fine, it's decent in most applications except against very strong teams or on large maps since he lacks mobility.
Truth is friend, ALL Killers have perfectly fine, fucntional powers and there are no "weak" Killers. Just Killers that are weaker by comparison to others. All Killers can streak, 4k, etc. just fine, but depending on the type of Survivors or maps they get, some struggle more than others.
It's not a strength tierlist. It's a "how hard do you want Killer to be for you?" tierlist. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904949#Comment_3904949
Hey, I totally get where you're coming from. The frustration is real, and I definitely don’t want to invalidate that. But I think this idea that people downvote solely because someone has a killer pfp feels a little like confirmation bias. I’ve seen plenty of killer pfp with posts that are upvoted heavily, and plenty with survivor pfps that get downvoted. It really does depend on what’s being said, not just who’s saying it or what their profile looks like. And there’s no way to know how many killers vs. survivors are actually active on the forums, so it’s tough to assume a majority bias either way. But of course, some people are trolls. Sometimes youre tunneled out because of what survivor skin you have on. That's just how it is sometimes lol.
As for the rest of your comment, I’m with you 100% on being sick of ragequits. I main SoloQ too, and it is exhausting. When a game that had potential gets tanked by someone DCing at 5 gens, it just drains you. That kind of thing isn’t just frustrating—it’s demoralizing..
When killers started quitting in mass a while back, that was treated like a serious issue. Queue times got out of hand. Survivor players were sitting for 10+ minutes waiting for a match, and killer lobbies were often nearly instant. Nobody really enjoyed playing the killer role and thankafully the devs stepped in to address that with changes that made killer more rewarding and powerful overall. The game took a massive shift. It was the right call, as killers don’t get teammates and can’t play with friends so the shift toward giving killers more power and a higher winrate makes sense to make the role have incentive to play.
But when survivors started quitting or disconnecting in larger numbers, something we’re seeing a lot more lately, it wasn’t met with the same empathy. It’s labeled “entitlement” and simply “ragequitting,” when maybe it should be seen as another red flag, just like it was with killers. I think that difference in perception hurts the community more than we realize. Both roles are important, and both need to feel like the game is worth sticking around for.
I like that killer is in the power role now. I actually think that’s how the game plays best. But even as someone who supports that shift, I still think the current survivor experience isn’t sustainable. People disconnect when it feels like their time isn’t being respected. That doesn’t (always) mean they’re being immature. Just like how when killers stopped playing for awhile, that wasn't immature either. Why put their time and effort into a game that felt like it didn't respect their own? I'm glad that killers took a stand and can now enjoy their role again. The game needed it.
So yeah, I want killer to be fun and rewarding—but I also want survivor to be the same. We made noise when killer numbers dropped, and changes happened. Survivors are doing the same now, and I think labeling it all as just childish entitlement does much more harm than good, and that it needs to be listened to. And based on the recent QOL survivor updates they previewed, it seems like the devs are, which I think is good too. DCing will be more heavily punished, as will going on 1st hook. Only time will tell if the other QOL changes added in the future will make it worth sticking around or not. Fingers crossed!
if that's the case, then why was my post downvoted when it's not saying anything others have not already said, and why does it seem like EVERY post made from the Killer POV that I see here is more commonly downvoted versus Survivor-sided takes?
I don't think it's necessarily confirmation bias when I can see the proof of it happening. Look above you, Narko made very good points all well thought out. 6 downvotes. It doesn't seem to be just the content of the post, but who is saying it from what POV.Reddit has this EXACT issue, too.
Thanks for reading the rest of the comment though, I'm glad others are seeing the issue. It's demoralizing from both sides. I don't like playing with or against bots, they aren't fun for anyone. You're right that maybe I'm being a bit too biased and I agree, both sides need to feel rewarding and fun. I think the issue isn't actually balance either, I can have plenty of fun losing as Survivor with Killer as the power role like it should be. The issue actually is, losing feels like it's punishing and curbstomps are too frequent. Especially for the non-power role. The problem isn't losing more, the problem is losing, a common enough state in the game, FEELS REALLY BAD. Too bad. If losing is the default outcome for one side, it shouldn't feel like a punishment to lose. If losing is part of the game it shouldn't feel like you lost a competition, it should feel like you lost at hide and go seek. It shouldn't affect your score, your grade, or your MMR so heavily. But it currently does for all but Grade, which boosts competitiveness, which nobody except the hypercompetitive players actually likes.
The game isn't unbalanced. The game is fine. The issue is the game isn't casual enough. -
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906095#Comment_3906095
I'm still gonna have to do the survivor tome challenges. And playing killer is going to have long queue times, on top of playing against miserable survivors, because they've been facing Ghoul all day every day, who will also be taking the game extremely seriously because the Ghoul matches have pushed them to the extreme.
Things are going to be very intense, and I don't think it's going to be a pleasant experience.
I personally agree with you, my concern is though that the way these bloodpoint events go? They almost always create sweat as everyone tries to get as many points as possible. The result is an unfun mess. It happens start of every month for pips, it happens with blood feasts and hunts, and it happens with Blood Moon. It happened last year with Blood Moon. And it will be more insane now because of the separate queues.
I really think they needed to hold off on Kaneki before this event. They did not. I guess we'll have to see?
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I mean, horror anime exists. It's not MY style of horror but I'm not gonna begrudge having Kaneki in it.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441855/my-side-versus-yours
I agree with you. There is two problems:
Those who mostly play killer versus those who play mostly survivor AND
Those who play casually versus those who play competitively.
The problem is when you look through these positions ( casual killers vs competitive survivors; competitive killers vs casual survivors ) you create a situation where "Fair" and "balanced" can go way too far and not reach a consensus.
There should be more incentives to play both sides DEEPLY (not just doing dailys, but understanding the core mechanics of each side), so people can have a better view on the issues of this game and a more fair opinion.
I really agree with all of this. IMHO the game desperately needs a more casual spirit and more casual adjustments, more ways to win a round and encourage getting good at looping or with a Killer, more rewards for simply trying your best even if you lose the round, etc.
I personally never feel bad if I lose but still make progress on stuff, but I definitely feel bad when it's a curbstomp several rounds in a row. I also feel bad when I go in casual but get a comp opponent. Those possibilities simply have got to be eliminated. I don't know how we'd do it, but it needs to be done. I think we should start by relaxing MMR except for the kiddie pool, and finding some way to give more wincons. Changing how points get calculated and thus pips are calculated would do wonders for that. My suggestion:
- Wincons: 3-4k, at least 5-8 hooks, Escape through gate, Escape through hatch, perform really well in one of the categories. Add a tie category for 2k/draw, where it's a "win" for both sides (but a loss of MMR).
- Points don't pip you, participation does. Points now only determine how much BP you get end of the round, to a maximum of 40k unless there's an event on where you can get more.
- No Pip: You DCed, gave up on hook, Abandoned the round, or otherwise forfeited or left the round early. No Penalty unless it's a DC before 10 minutes have elapsed.
- One Pip: You played the round through to the end, whether you won or lost. That's it, that's all. You just finished and played the round to the end of your character's time in it, be that all the way through or until you die.
- Two Pips: You finished the round and you fulfulled one of the wincons above.
Then IDK… make a ranked mode for people who want that and remove all the safety checks in it like the kick limit, antitunnel, anticamp, etc. - ranked is where anything goes and is strategic, that way if you really wanna genrush or tunnel you can do it there, but if you just wanna play you can go to the normal mode. Ranked Mode would have special prizes like badges, banners, shards, or extra BP if you want it. Ranked would have its own separate grading system. Grades would be how much you played and would only be used for the original mode. -
I ask for nerfs and buffs both sides, but I see a lot more complaints about calling for the other side to be nerfed from Survivor side these days. I play both sides, but currently a bit more Survivor (I enjoy Killer more, always have, this is why I call myself a Killer Main - Survivor was never my favored role, I only play it because it's frankly less mental work and I can just focus on doing as much as possible for points).
Generally speaking? I think there's a reason we see more Surv complaints. Frankly two reasons:
One, this is the side of the game that had a little more power for a very long time, though not anymore, and is naturally the victim role, so I think Survivor mains feel obligated to want that control back or to feel like the hero of a round to the Killer's villain. There's a very real fantasy element in being able to best a big strong Killer, and looping strength is part of that. That's why we see complaints maps are too small, perks are too weak, Killers need nerfs. But, there have been legitimate complaints that some Killers have been buffed and maps have gotten too hard to use loops on, or that some Killers are problematic and unfun or unbalanced. See Skull Merchant, Xeno's glitched tail on release, or release Chucky for example, all Killers that really did need to be looked at.
Two, there's a LOT more Survivor Mains than Killer Mains out there, some 4x as many, and so their voices tend to get elevated. That's been a perennial issue actually.In general I think Killer is in a good spot with some exceptions that really need some buffs or nerfs. I overall think Survivor could use buffs to some things mostly - but not without balancing some problematic bits of their kit, specifically certain toolboxes and gen progression. I would like their chase to become stronger and would like to see more stuff that focuses on being clever with their resources, NOT more generator progression stuff - they frankly have enough of it and it's maybe a little overkill for some Killers in the weaker half of the roster.
Frankly, all these complaints both sides come from one very simple issue: Rounds are too fast for humans to feel comfy in. This is because generators have issues, they're either too fast or too slow. There should not be in 2025 a case where multiple Gens are popping in under a minute or within one chase, nor should there be a case where gens are so locked down someone is dead at 5 or 4 gens. The game needs to have a tug of war element and as the roster and perks list increases, the ways that one side can mess with the other and push games even more ridiculously fast increases. Now that tunnelling and stuff is going the way of the dodo, I fear many casual or weak Killer players will either load up on hardcore perks or simply quit the game entirely, while Survivors - fed up with Killers they see as too strong to best - will also leave. That's how games die.
What we need is some sort of way to monitor or cap both regression and progression. But I get downvoted every time I say that, so what do I know? I've only been playing since 2018. -
@danielmaster87 said:
I just can't see him being a really good killer. More like mid tier. He's quite simplistic.
Simple and mid does not mean "bad Killer". Oni is considered a high B, and Artist is an A tier. Both have very simple kits and are frankly kinda mid compared to what other Killers can do, but both are considered strong Killers.
Hell, even mid Killers can do damage, look at the havoc Myers and Freddy can wreak now after their buffs. They'll never be above a B tier and they still create serious problems in most lobbies. Most Survivors STILL have trouble with them. It's only the really good Survs that don't.
Some C tiers can even be better than expected - even weak Killers can be just fine, they just won't win any competitions against super good Survs. Go ask a casual Survivor how they feel about Ghostface, Pig, and Doctor sometime. Really good Survivors class all three as quite weak, and they are, but your average Surv? Yeah they aren't winning those rounds. Even stealth, a built in headtrap, and simple antiloop are enough to create problems for the majority of Survivor players.It's one reason I think we need better rankings of strength and a better concept of how to grade Killer power than tierlists. For the average player you cannot learn much by pointing to something that shows how good a decent Killer player is with a given Killer against a really good team, because that doesn't reflect the reality that most Survivors are not really good. Hell, most Killers aren't either.
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This is way more problematic than Chucky or Xeno or SM were at launch IMHO… this is a Nurse level situation, he is that strong.
Mobility Killers are not healthy for this game if they aren't seriously controlled, and we have three that are basically not controlled - Blight, Nurse, Ghoul. It's just not fair, Survivors cannot keep up with it so they run the roughest stuff, which makes it harder for everyone else. These types of superfast Killers have ruined the tierlists by outmoding more modest, balanced Killers - Killers like Wraith, Houndmaster, Singularity, and Artist for example, all of which are decent, balanced Killers that feel FAIR to play against as Survivor. Tell me, do you feel like playing against a juiced up Kaneki, Nurse, or Blight feels fair?
Because I don't. Now imagine how casual players feel, when looping - one of the more fun aspects of this game - simply isn't an option.
Mobility Killers faster than something like Legion or Wesker that do not have enough limits, or without teleports like Sadako or Dredge, need to be consigned to the dustbin and not come back. Killers like Nurse, Blight, and Ghoul should NOT be a template for future designs. They're almost always much more problematic than they have any right to be and facing them frankly just is not fun. That's if they aren't glitchy messes like Wesker and his hitboxes are. -
I would rather they balance Gen regression AND progression to be capped at a certain rate both sides so you can't turbo-destroy OR turbo-buff gens, to keep the game from runaway out of control results, curbstomps, and generally make it easier for weaker Killers while challenging strong Survivors. It's absurd some of the things both sides can do with and to generators sometimes.
Capping generator regression and progression could even serve to see different perks used. There's many perks I would much rather use than generator ones on either side, toolboxes, stuff like Pain res… but I can't because IDK if the other side is going to blast me with strong regression and lock down gens, or a bunch of juiced up progression perks and toolboxes when I just wanted a few fun Pig rounds tonight.
This has been a perennial issue for this game. Generators need to be addressed, end of, period, it's 2025. Nobody likes feeling like every game is a stress test of "how fast can you kill people/do gens". That's not just stressful, it's boring. Versus games shouldn't have to be stressful or require certain setups to feel fun.
I think aura perks both sides are genuinely just fine and keep the game on pace. They're all healthy for the game. Gen perks both sides? Not so much.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905870#Comment_3905870
I'm saying DBD is caught in an infinite loop of fan disapproval due to balancing more for the casual side. That's the whole issue. At least balance for the top and casual side evenly, but due to them usually balancing for casual play leads these casual players to whine more and more until they get their way.. Giving a whining child what it wants just because its whining doesn't solve the issue of their mentality or the situation. And as we've seen many times in usual BHVR tradition, that's exactly what they'll continue to do as they're already ruled by their casual player base. The casual side that sticks around at least.
The casual people that play and leave forever after a few matches are the smart ones. This is why BHVR act like they're scared to make any substantial changes to the base game formula as they might upset that LOUD casual group. The fact BHVR chooses to constantly walk on eggshells in the face of their player base is laughable. On one hand, they do it because they're afraid to change what works, and on the other hand, letting players decide what they like and what they don't, cuts out the real hard work for BHVR as they don't have to really dig deep themselves to make the game better. Not that they really know how to do that anyway.
I'm sorry but this is a really bad take. The issue with DBD isn't that it's too casual, it's that it's not casual enough - nobody wants to be curbstomped round after round. The game as it is now feels too competitive and too hard once you hit a certain threshold, it's not fair to expect Survs to have to bring the strongest stuff and Killers to play the strongest ones just to feel like they are accomplishing something. I've even seen the stupid, stupid sentiment here that beginner perks and easy Killers shouldn't be buffed because they are for new players, but what about people who like those perks and those characters? What about new players? They deserve to have fun and win with stuff they like, too!
2v8 is popular because it evens the playing field for casuals. Regular DBD is popular because it's not a hard game but it is difficult to master. Hard is fine, lots of people like hard games, but DBD becomes in some cases nearly impossible in a round because of sheer bad luck or who you picked or the perks you have. That really isn't fun and it leads to meta stagnation, and arguments that one side or the other badly needs nerfs.In reality, the devs need to make the game more about casual play by emphasizing casual wincons, not just 3-4k/escape through a gate. They also badly need to change how MMR works, change how pipping and points work, and change how the game calculates what a "win" is. The way the system is now is too competitive minded and that doesn't feel good for casual but consistent players like me or most of us here.
The other issue? Rounds are frankly a bit too fast and losses feel too much like stomps when you lose. The MMR is not swingy enough to bring a variety of experiences, and there is no incentive to stick with a game the player is losing. If the Devs find a way to slow the game a bit and have more casual wincons count for progression, the sting of losing the round goes away and the feeling like you can't improve goes away. People will not feel the need to tunnel or slam gens from the word go, and the game will feel much more friendly to anyone who wants to just run a few rounds after work or school or something - which is most players of this game. Less people will take breaks and more people will return.
But they need to balance it so we don't get these one-sided stomps and that losing is a game state, not a punishment like it currently feels to be. -
Then why don't you just play Killer? There's a whole half of the game that isn't Survivor.
I think Blood Moon coming this soon after the Ghoul's release, a Killer that currently is VERY strong (too strong IMHO, he should be toned way down as should all S tiers because S tiers IMHO are not healthy for this game), is a big mistake. They need to patch Kaneki before Blood Moon but it doesn't look like that will happen, and it would be unfair to disqualify the Ghoul from being allowed to play the event… -
MFT has not been a problem since its much needed nerf about a year ago. It's literally a fine perk now and needs no changes. It doesn't need a buff and most certainly does not need a nerf, not now not ever.