Leon_van_Straken
Leon_van_Straken
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- Leon_van_Straken
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One sentence is hard. But I made some suggestions.
- How to get the Survivor out of the tunneling process.
- How to reward the killer or atleast don´t make the Anti Tunnel feature abusable.
First of all I tried to think about "What is Tunneling for the mayority of the Survivors and Devs" and I came to the following conclusion.
For the most Survivors tunneling occurs when the Killer goes for the same target twice in a row. Most of the time I heard that it is impossible to do something if the Killer wants you out he will chew through any Anti Tunnel and Anti Tunnelperk in existance. So how about this:
If the survivor gets unhooked he gets an new state "call it illusive or what so ever". In this state, the survivor becomes ghost like and the Killer can not interact with the Survivor at all. (No hitting, no grabbing, no bodyblocking) This state is active as long as the Survivor does no suspicious action, another Survivor gets hooked or he wants to abbandon the state when the Killer is out of the terror radius or a fix distance (because of undetectable).
Now you ask why should a survivor abbandon the state and it could be abused to get safely to a gen. But what if the survivor can only move slowly while in this state and I mean slowly. This would have the following affect.
If the Killer decides to tunnel or follow the Survivor he can´t do anything, while the rest of the team finishes the gens and escape. (So it is not viable)
The Killer on the other hand gets some natural slow down, because the Survivor moves slowly and can not hop straight back to a gen.
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The whole abbandon system needs a check up.
I am always confused that when 3 mates left the game through the Exit gates and I am "left behind" I can abbandon the game, like BHVR? I am healthy and hatch is there? Two gates open… why can I abbandon now?
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Well OP got a point.
Therer was doom posting about the Killer seeing the hook states. That now Killers get handholding for easier tunneling and so on. So I think that he is kinda right, that some people will claim, that BHVR makes the Killer role so easy that a baby could play it.
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You shouldn´t see these things on its own.
What most people want is simple: If you want tunneling gone you will have to buff Killers.
The thing is BHVR is really good in doing one tiny step after the other (and make many things worse with it)
If I had a word in it I would suggest to nuke Tunneling out of the game. Punish Killers for tunneling even. If someone goes before 3 or 4 gens are gone give them penalitys that hurt them, but you will need to buff Killers on the lower end a lot or they will have trouble.
Another problem which occured to me on this weekend when i played kill your friends. I normally play with friends which are around 1000 hours. So for DBD relative new. So I restrict myself as Killer, I will go for the 12 hook and only start killing when I got 8 hooks. So this day I played hag and made a big web around Hawkins. After I got 5 hooks the Survivor which I had hooked twice just ran behind me and disarmed every trap i place. (Remember I am not allowed to slug or tunnel here.) My whole power felt completly useless. Same thing would go for Ghostface, Trapper, Artist and so on.
It is difficult to nuke tunneling without survivors weaponizing it against you.
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@Blueberry said:
I know I’m in the minority but I’d like if we could all chat together.
Problem is there is no chatting at all.
The defeated side just leaves while the other tries to put as many insults into the chat as they can.
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@Classic_Rando said:
It should be eliminated from PC version of the game, not added to console. End-game chat is by far the biggest source of toxicity in this game. No good will come of expanding that to other platforms.
The problem is people don´t want change, so it seems most of the time, because always someone comes out of the deepest pit of hell and says: Well actually i found the love of my life in endgame chat and one killer was so kind after i teabagged him at the gate that he gave me his credit card number.
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@HexHerbz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025328#Comment_4025328
I guess you can't win basically. People cry out about fixing things, this would be an easy solution. Survivors being invisible until they perform an action isn't the end of the world. It's just a baseline on a fix to the thing people complain about. doesn't have to be as straight forward as that, of course it would need tweaking for a balance. If a survivor want's to run around doing nothing then that's their problem. You could even put a timer on when it ends naturally if a survivor doesn't perform any kind of action
I made a post two days ago how you could fix the tunneling meta with benefits for the Killer and safety for the survivors.
But you could come up with the perfect solution to a problem and people would still cry not to change a thing because in 1 of a billion games something could happen what is not forseen.
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I think the problem isn´t if its possible for the players but more for the code of dbd.
I mean i like some panty shots from Sable or Skull Merchant but imagine they would try to programm physics into the game…
Helicopter hair and missing body parts incoming.
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From time to time i played 2v8 with seven friends which take this game very serious.
They told me to repair gens, but not finish them only if the Killer gets close to it so that the others get the speed bonus for the hooked survivors.
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Yeah exactly that XD
You fine Sir made my day
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Both a grindy as hell to be honest.
But the two most difficult archivments in my opinion are:
Left behind: After all Survivors are sacrifed repair a generator and escape through the gates.
The other one I sadly don´t remember the name but you have to escape a round on the asylum without getting hit once.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025703#Comment_4025703
I don't even want to move in a Trapper match, much less run. Since Deep Wounds will slowly tick down to downing you unless you're running I would have to choose between running and risk being caught in another trap or mending close to the trap I just got out of making the escape kind of pointless since I'm still right where the Trapper got a notification to go.
To be fair it would help Trapper alot.
But it sounds like a cartoon for me.
Oh snap i stepped in a trap, gets free, starts running 2 steps… Oh snap XD
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Expierience on both sides with the end game chat.
You win as the killer and you get 2 outcomes:
- Slurs
- All leave instant after abbandon
You lose as Killer:
- Slurs
- GG ez Baby Killer
You win as Survivor:
- Slurs
- Instant abbandon because the Killer don´t want slurs
You lose as Survivor:
- just que up for the next game
- Write your slurs before the game is over and que up for the next game
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You all have fair points, but I am not quiet happy with the answer to be honest.
I know deathslinger is slow and quiet a weak killer compared to the others.
But this deep wound doesn´t really fit him in my opinion.
Something like giving hindred to the Survivor would help him much more so he can hit the next shot easier.
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025212#Comment_4025212
Trapper's traps should give Deep Wounds tbh.
Feels a bit like that right?
Trapper takes time to place traps and sometimes you get nothing out of it just 3 seconds try and escape.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025360#Comment_4025360
The idea comes up every now and then and is the most direct solution. It runs into a few potential problems:
Mostly its a feel/fun issue. Yes, you've made tunneling impossible, but the issue isn't just about taking tunneling off the board entirely. Like a lot of game elements, its about finding the happy medium, not too easy, not too hard, with meaningful impacts from players choices.
DbD is an elimination game and finding the right balance between those eliminations being meaningful but not overwhelming is the challenge. Survivors should be nervous/excited/stressed when on death hook, but if it either to hard too get away from the hook, or too easy, then the game loses that exciting element.
@angrychuck said:
I think that making tunneling impossible shouldn't be the course of action but rather making it a bit more unappealing and then give some base-kit buffs to unique hooks, something more than this useless bloodlust.
I understand where you come from. But my idea doesn´t make tunneling impossible. It makes the direct tunneling of hook impossible.
And still give the Killer natural slowdown if he decides to chase another survivor.
Remeber I said, the survivor is just untoouchable until he gives the "green light" by himself or it is clear that the Killer isn´t tunneling.
- The survivor makes a suspicious action like touching a gen, self heal and so on
- The Killer hooks someone else
- The Survivor abbandons the state to be part in the game again.
The slowdown for the kill occurs in the time which the survivor is in the same state, because he moves slowly and can´t touch a gen immediatly after unhook.
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Nobody got an opinon to this?
I am open to criticism aswell -
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025205#Comment_4025205
Deathslinger still has to take the time to reel you in. Deep wounds just helps offset that time if you have to drop chase. Deathslinger is already plagued with bugs and not really that strong of a killer. We really don't need to nerf him more.
As I said, I wasn´t asking for a nerf there. It is just the lingering question in my head "Why him". Why doesn´t Trappers trap give you deepwounds when you escape as an example. "What is so special about Deathslingers abilty to inflict it".
Btw it is kinda stupid that if you hit the Survivor and swing your weapon and miss the Survivor gets away healthy but if you don´t do something and the chain breaks you get the injure XD
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@Crowman said:
Deathslinger inflicts deep wounds, because if he hits you but is unable to land the M1 for damage and the chain breaks he still gets something for landing the hit.
But if he gets deep wounds for breaking the chain and for hitting you after he pulls you to him, why isn´t injure enough?
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I think it is unfair aswell but you know humans.
They will try everything to defend such things.
Just think about strech resolution, when some players claimed it looks amazing and thats the only reason they want to keep it while their survivor looked like the square block in tetris.
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If you talk about Skill… are all Killers allowed?
Remember the Skill gap between Trapper and Nurse.
Survivors would need some base game things or you have a full Slug Party for 4 Minutes or Camping on demand (if you remember the last Chaos Shuffle it was free tunneling cause no perks.)
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There will be always different Killers because people like them or they get bored out of their mind playing Nurse, Blight and Ghoul.
The problem in my opinion is, that if you want consistent wins as Killer in higher MMR you are kinda forced to play them or you shoot yourself in the kneecap.
I mean BHVR is weird again with their "nerfs" to killer. Just look at this.
Who was hurt most about more pallet spawns? A: Nurse, Blight, Ghoul or B: Trapper, Demo, Clown
Who sufferd more about the sloppy butcher nerf? A: Nurse, Blight, Ghoul or B: Wraith, Sadako, Oni
Who will have a harder time because of the new Anti Slug? A: Nurse, Blight, Ghoul or B: Oni, Twins, Bubba
I could ramble on on these nerfs but be honest. Not a single one of them is kinda backbone breaking for Nurse, Blight or Ghoul.
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The Problem is and I know I will get many downvotes for this. If you can´t cut the efficiency down by removing a teammate as fast as possible there are only two things you can do to let Killers keep the pace up. Remember if you don´t tunnel or proxy camp the hook you have always to find a fresh Survivor and carry them all the way back to hook after a chase.
The two options are longer gens or shorter chases.
And I think no one will be happy about either of them.
It is boring enough to do gens and it will never be enough what should the new gen times be? 120 seconds? Hell nah…
The other part is even more hated and I am afraid that BHVR was testing these with Ghoul and Karuse. Give Killers strong or even unfair advantages to cut the chase short.
I think to that Killers should play for hooks but I am afraid that the fix back to 60% KR will be horrible for the Game.
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Yeah make DCs penality free. No one would abuse this like…
Oh it is Killer X? Next
Oh the Killer has a ping over 20? Next
OMG I love this Killer!!! Damn why did the random went next just because it is Myers?
Oh this map is not my favorite! Next
Oh this game is perfect but my mom called me so I let my mates back… Next!
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024053#Comment_4024053
They weren't crying that they couldn't win, they were upset that their queue times were obnoxiously long. Wasn't there a Twins player who had to wait over an hour and only found a game because his chat stream sniped him or am I remembering wrong?
Wasn´t that Dowsey? Who got his Twitch Shirt removed because he stated that the Devs made some questionable comments how DBD should have been played?
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@cogsturning said:
The game really does reward some of its worst players. That goes for both roles.
I had a match yesterday where I was tunneled out but, by the time I died, there was only one gen left. The other three got out, yet it counts as a loss for me. It's just illogical.
I'm eager (and frightened) to see what they have in store for the matchmaking rework.
But if you didn´t escape was it skilled at all? If you try to see DBD as a hockey match you shouldn´t count the times you tried to hit the goal… and so on XD
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I think it´s kinda a racist, sexist or homophobic related thing. Like people tunneling out Orela because she is transgender and stuff like this.
It is stupid and a childish behaviour which happens in the real world too. Example: Lol he reads Mangas in public so he must be… "generic words".
People tend to getting mad if someone else enjoys something they don´t like or are unsure about.
Had one night with a random who didn´t want to unhook a Claudette and I bet you can tell why he didn´t want to touch her.
I had such things aswell because my main is Cheryl and I heard some nasty things about young girls and that I must like them in real life.
Most of these people are sad trolls who try to make you feel bad for enjoying things.
Keep your head up and enjoy it.
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@oxygen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023231#Comment_4023231
The method you're likely talking about was fixed long ago. At least I assume it's the log file method, which stopped being feasible the moment BHVR encrypted the text file in question instead of letting people see killer cosmetic names as they loaded into the lobby.
Can people do it another way with more "hardcore" cheating methods today like actual cheat clients? Maybe, I don't know. But WAY less people will dare to do something that might actually get them banned than something that due to how it worked was unquestionably 100% consequence free.
Lol who is downvoting you for explaining something XD
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@SiegSprite said:
The Bloodweb has become an issue because, to your point, there’s so many worthless offerings in it. At this point I find myself getting maybe 1 Bloody Party Streamer per prestige, sometimes even none. I don’t care for map offerings, salty lips, increasing the density of the fog, etc.
I agree with the Bloodweb being removed to an extent; I think the entire perk system itself is flawed if I’m being honest, especially after seeing the Class system introduced in 2v8. Classes were clean, simple, and a great idea overall.
On that note, I’m also not a fan of having to keep leveling a character after I get them to prestige 100 just so I don’t completely run out of items/add-ons/offerings. I want to progress other characters, but I also want to keep playing my prestige 100 characters (mains), so I I unfortunately need to keep dumping Bloodpoints into those. Maybe they could add devotion to characters in the future, so it feels like I’m still getting some sort of progression after prestige 100?
Would be a funny addition if you get all Items and Addons on Prestige 100 Chars for free.
I mean you got so many things on them why not make it free.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023200#Comment_4023200
Here's the more thorough explanation from Peanits. Notably, you can draw and still increase in MMR
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JJV6WI3YTUR1/1000011029.jpg
Thanks for your good work.
But doesn´t that still prove my point too? Or am I missing something.
If you play vs 3 potatoes and 1 god as an average Killer. And you manage to kill only the God by Hate or Noed or what ever. Could your MMR increase in a loss?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Yeah Lobby dodging is a huge issue in the game, honestly the entire lobby system and UI needs a rework.
if the killer couldnt see the survivors they'd not dodge, same for the survivors. At the same time it'd be nice to see co-survivor perks etc.I think Survivors should see the perks of their mates too but… and here is a big but…
It would drastical increase the lobby dodging. Running Self Care? Next… Running Chest builds? Next… Running Sole Survivor and Left behind for a streak? NEXT!!!
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Seeing the patern here…
PTB goes live… Doom posting… everyone plays exactly the same…
Short form nothing will happen
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@killer_hugs said:
- 1. If you are a killer and you down the entire team and you receive the option to abandon the game and you abandon the game you are not awarded kills and presumably your MMR does not change. This must be changed.
- 2. If you are a survivor and it's the end of the game and you get the option to abandon the game this MUST count as a death and it must change your MMR.
- 3. The way the abandon feature is impacting our stats on the official stats page must be addressed or the stats have no value.
If I'm wrong on either of these points let me know. But I don't think there's anyone in the community who thinks the abandon feature, when used at the END OF THE GAME, should void the game. It should count either for you (if you're the killer and downed everyone), or against you (if you're the survivor).
I made a post saying the same thing and I am afraid that this rabbithole goes much deeper than only these points.
It is important to talk about this and it would be amazing to get respond from the devs.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023171#Comment_4023171
Yes, but MMR is treated as a 1v1. It's why even if you kill 4 survivors, you won't necessarily receive an equal MMR increase for each because factors like yours and your opponent's MMR is taken into account when determining how much you gain or lose (eg if you kill a survivor with a higher MMR than you, then you gain more MMR than if you kill a survivor of a lower MMR). That was confirmed previously by Peanits. Again, this is why the devs need to clarify the specifics. The quote you've shared says that matches with a DC or abandon don't count in official stats (which i said), but by "theirs and your" MMR do they mean the 1v1 between killer and the DCing/abandoning survivor, or between killer and all survivors.
Theoretical:
If I run hate and the Survivor with the most MMR is my obsession and in the whole match I hit only this survivor once while getting completly destroyed my MMR rises?
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Stealth Killers are the only time in the Game when I feel like playing a horror game.
Their sole existance can cause paranoia and that is fantastic.
Everyone had one of these games. You sit on a gen nearly in the middle of the map and after half a gen you still had no Terrorradius. These are the "Oh ######### he is behind me" moments which I really love.
Do i consider them strong… well it is something else to loop a Ghostface if he is cloaked. No red stain and no check spots. Althrough it is funny as hell if he crouches in a moonwalk style to hit you off guard. But most of the time they are just M1s.
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@Blueberry said:
What's even worse about it is that when the killers allowed to abandon it doesn't give him the MMR win. So hypothetically if i was to just spam 4 man slug every single game, the survivors will abandon, then I would abandon. This would allow me to perpetually smurf and never raise my MMR to keep doing it over and over to the newer players. The abandon system has caused many problems.
Didn´t thought about that…
Holy loophole of hell
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@dowelljason said:
Killers have multiple built in powers and perks survivors have 4 consumable items and perks. Killers should be more powerful than survivors and survivors should die sometimes, but it should be due to skill or lack of. The current meta for most killers, because streamers think its funny or they say here is a way to win is is to slug and camp etc… The game was not designed around that. If it was suppose to be your slugged on the ground and that it this would have been the Friday the 13th game again. Its an exploit of game mechanics and it needs to be resolved so it fun and fair for both sides.
The Biggest thing everyone on both side needs to remember this game needs to be fun, case in point see below
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198057935249/images/
I got thanked by a ttv where I killed everyone. Why I made it fun. Someone botted right at the start so, i pulled my punches a bit. When someone went to unhook someone I let them, I even let them heal. I went and kicked gens or went after other survivors. I juggled them all and spread out hooks and still got everyone with Chucky. If you have to tunnel, camp and slug you are not a skilled player. The good news is if you lose you get into a lower mmr hopefully and get around people in your skill level. If you slug, tunnel etc.. you will eventually get into a high mmr and then go against high skill survivors that you wont be able to compete with. Play proper and it will make both sides happy.
To be fair… I don´t know if the game wasn´t build around camping.
Wasn´t it Almo who said "Insidious Bubba is skillful" and played one shot hatched Huntress 10m away from the hooks?
I mean which intend had the game at all? If I remember correctly the devs needed proof that looping exists XD
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022968#Comment_4022968
if they are not counted then they dont count for MMR, meaning all these last man down abandons where players should lose MMR are actually not losing it. it wouldnt make a difference short term but long term it would throw the MMR out completely. just have to be last survivor remaining to keep the MMR neutral then get the odd escape to push it up little by little. eventually survivors would climb MMR and get tougher matches even though they struggle to escape v low MMR killers.
So… just as an example if you skip the Mori Animation with your SWF does the following?
- Abandoning a game lowers the Killrate on the stats… because the most abandoned games are loses for Survivors.
2. But abandoning games pushes the survivors MMR (because loses won´t decrease MMR and escapes rise them) after a certain amount of time (If it is used that much)
That means all stats of Killrates are completly downplayed and way to many survivors are in MMR brackets where they don´t belong to?
My head hurts…
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022950#Comment_4022950
DCs and abandons aren't counted in the official stats at all
I didn´t talk about escape rate or kill rate.
I am talking about your MMR and that it doesn´t go down if you dc or abandon a game. While it does for people which stay in these games and get sacrificed.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022946#Comment_4022946
Sure, but most games aren't between two sole results - abandon or escape. There's plenty of dying in there too. Especially if, as you say, he's not very good at the game.
Ofcourse there are more results. I can only speak about the 9 or 10 games we played. Fact is he didn´t die once in these games before he dc´ed or abandonded the games.
So his MMR should be untouched which is not right at all is it?
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@tjt85 said:
If you SWF in a group, doesn't that affect the Killers you're likely to get in your games? Could be that if you play at higher MMR than your friend, the system is boosting your buddy up to your level (and vice versa). Generally speaking, I think SWFs are more likely to get experienced Killers trying their hardest because that's the only way you can compete at that level (yes, I know potato SWF groups also exist. I'm generalising here).
You can see this happen in real time with the YouTube Hardcore Survivor series, where you can watch an experienced SWF dunk on beginner/casual Killers for the first 10-20 games, before eventually running up against top tier Killers that are all sweating hard for the win. It's possible that BHVR don't want to count abandoned games as affecting MMR because these are wins or losses that occurred because players are not really playing as intended. Maybe the Killer tried to shortcut their way to victory by ignoring hook states or the Survivors decided to play a half hour game of hide and seek and barely touched the gens. But I don't know what their rationale is because they've never told us. I do think abandoned games should be counting as losses, though.
In any case, I'd be worried about the MMR system boosting players that abandon if I believed the system actually worked even half the time. So long as we have split event queues and queue times prioritised over match quality, we'll keep getting mismatches and one sided stomps no matter what.
We didn´t play together that day.
But even if we play together and he abandons nearly every game and I get sacrificed.
I lose MMR and he does not. That´s the problem.
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I think Fog vials could have stayed the way they have been before the nerf just don´t let them be spamable and make them even on every map.
P.S. make it that charms aren´t visible through the fog…
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Well you can report them… but if it does something?
This was the reason why I liked the new crow system but it was way to strict. Once I got crows because I got chased like BHVR? How am I afk here?
Sadly it got nuked to oblivion while it only needed some adjustment like many other things…
When I think about it… I haven´t seen an AFK crow for a very long time at all… and I had some matches as Killer where i could abandon because since 10 Minutes no gen was touched.
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BHVR clearly stated that dc and abandoning games doesn´t affect MMR didn´t they?
Since you can abandon games where you get downed twice you can abandon so many games. Heck you even get the abandon mechanic if you are the last survivor (still healthy and hatch open, happend yesterday in my games)
And yes the rest of the games were slug fests and so on.
He dc´ed 2 times in total, cause he was left on hook and abandoned 7 times. After BHVR logic he shouldn´t lose MMR for these.
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It is kinda hard to difference between "mobility Killers and none"
Nurse in blight are mobility Killers ofc but are Legion with his francy and dogmaster aswell?
There are so maby different kinds of map traversel that it is hard to draw a line here in my opinion.
Was speed clown on yellow bottles a mobility Killer? And if you say yes does this count for all speed buffs? So… Trapper is a mobilty Killer after placing a trap?
Same thing with teleports. Dredge is a mobility Killer but is Freddy?
I don´t think that some Killers are really outdated. But I think through power creep some are more lethal than others.
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Didn´t we have a long time a problem with the "Terminator" Bots?
Don´t get me wrong if someone wants to play PvE it should be totally possible and I often thought myself in custom games that it would be amazing to do so vs an AI Killer.
But I think many people think this would be a walk in the park. If the Killer is a bot, he will know your positions at all time. He will outplay you in all time since he can read positions and he will know which gens to defend.
On the other hand if we turn the bot down he will be most likely like the Zombies from Nemesis, completly useless most of the time and incompetent.
Just a example for a bad written "fair" Killer Bot. If you give the bot the instruction not to camp and he should stay 20m away from the hook and starts to chase a Survivor and this survivor runs into the 20m around the hook… will the bot break his own rule? Or will he abandon chase imediatly.
Another horrible Example… imagine a huntress bot which hits nearly all orbitals and snips…
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BHVR isn´t playing favorite with either side. They want to make money and tip the scale to the side which is leaving most.
Before the big 6.1.0 Update the quques as Survivor were pretty long, because no one was playing Killer even after all the nerfs the OG Survivors recived. (no insta heal, no brand new part)
Time went on and BHVR gave Killer Players more Toys to play with.
Now we have the same thing on the other side. Killer is to strong and BHVR is doing everything to rebuff Survivors. (New Pallets, Strong Perks like Finesse, Conviction and Vigil. New Anti Tunnel and Anti Slug.) And maybe it is just me but my Survivor quques aren´t instant anymore like they used to.
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So… you made an account…
Post a Video… and say this game is done?
No Arguments? Nothing?
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I am afraid to tell you that you won´t get an answer to this question which would satisfy everyone.
I play a lot of Survivor and I will give you my opinion what tunneling means for me.
Tunneling for me is the Killer going out of their way to take a survivor out of the game as fast as possible. You know the feeling, you get hooked in the game and the second your feet touch the ground after the unhook the killer (most likely a dash Killer) returns straight to the hook, ignoring everything they did before. These are the moments in which I tell my premade I get tunneld strapp up your boots I will try to buy time as much as I can. Because if I witness such Killers I go completly into defence mode. Using my DS while greeding pallets as long as it is up. Followed by predropping the hell out of pallets. (If the Killer doesn´t want to let me a chance of playing, I will deny him every possibility to express Skill by mindgaming.)
But you need to difference here. If I get unhooked and try to cleanse the Hex Totem close to me, it is fair game. If I bodyblock the Killer to get my Teammate out, it is fair game.
Atleast for me.
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I say it again.
Balancing your game on surveys is a huge risk factor.
On the one side you have people crying to BHVR how many survivors have to vote with their money or threats to dc to punish killers for tunneling.
On the other hand you could ask how many killer player need to deinstall the game till SWF gets looked at.
I am honest with you. Yes tunneling and slugging needs a fix as soon as possible. But the reason should be more than "It is not fun"
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021859#Comment_4021859
I simply had the question. "IF" and i want to have the focus on the IF because it is a theoretical question. IF all things survivor say is unfun, cheap or unskilled would be bannished from the game (which many players on this forum do) what would be the playstyle for the killer players.There's three issues here: poisoning the well, strawman, and presuming the conclusion.
Poisoning the well: You're starting from the premise of - 'you're unreasonable, please clarify how unreasonable are you?' You're going back and forth on this being a hypothetical vs being a meaningful game discussion. You don't have a person that you are responding to, its the starting point for where you are labeling the side unreasonable which leads to -
Strawman: You aren't responding to a person. No person said they wanted all of these removed (I'm not sure if anyone said they want any of these things removed entirely, so much as balanced). You're taking complaints from different individuals, going to an extreme, and lumping together to form a new entity you are arguing with (i.e. the strawman). Each individual is going to have their own nuanced complaints and thoughts about the game, which leads to -
Presuming the conclusion: You seem to be looking for an answer that is singular. 'I the survivor want the killer to play in X fashion'. But your presumption actually eliminates the answer others have given you - they don't just want one thing, in fact that is what they are trying to pull the game away from is singular tactics (i.e. tunneling, 3 genning from the starting, facecamping). This is why despite @Firellius giving you a very clear answer, you say he dodged question, even though he very clearly answered you, because you'd already constructed the form of the answer that you wanted.
I will give you right. It is not fair how I made my question. But I am still curious how a good game should look like.
First one says it should be a close game
Second one says it should be a game with 8 hooks before someone dies.
One wants a fast paced game the other a stealthy one.
I just wanted opinions so you can discuss with me. Open my eyes or see flaws someone else didnt think off.
Thats why I said okay if tunneling, slugging and camping are removed what is left.
I got examples from @Firellius that Hit and Run and 3 Gening is still an option. But I don´t think that if the Meta goes that way survivors would be happy.
But if these playstyles are ######### too and let Survivors deinstall the game, where is the line?
We all kmow that people are never happy and I am afraid that If you give the children candy it wants more.
It feels a bit like the time as Skullmerchant got nuked. After BHVR nuked her because the complains got to loud it was okay for a time. Then some people on twitter and this forum demanded lets give ghoul the Skullmerchant treatment and BHVR will nuke him. Or an example for the other Side lets complain about Fog vials till BHVR nukes them.I think too that a good anti Tunnel or Anti Slug should exist. But when we start to nerf these "Strategies/Cheap Tactics" where do we stop? Is a dead survivor at four hooks tunneling? Or only at 3 hooks? Is tunneling two survivors out at hook 5 and 6 enough to nerf tunneling more?
Thats why I asked, what is in your opinion a good survivor game? Cause I can´t know that. I try to recognize patterns here and I am really afraid that this game will not be balanced at all but just the side which is crying louder gets their feet kissed.