Leon_van_Straken
Leon_van_Straken
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Atleast some people which give opinions.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021825#Comment_4021825
Maybe 12-hooking (or at least 8-hooking) before killing off someone, so that everyone has time to interact with the gameplay aspects during a match. That is the so-called desired playstyle survivors would enjoy the most.
It also separates the good killers from the bad ones. Consistently 3-4K'ing, and maintaining a high kill-rate while 12-hooking shows that you are a very competent player, and deserve to be high up there.I understand that in a perfect world this would be the optimal game. But how do we archive that. Do we cut chases short or will the gen speed being increased? Not all Killers are able to go for this at the moment. I threw the Idea into the room that maybe Killers should be rewarded if they hook each survivor once without hooking someone twice. So there will be a reason to spread hooks.
@ArcT said:
Agency.
It's always about agency.
Being able to interact with and play the game. To use the perks and items that were brought. To feel like you have a chance to reset and recover. Those who say "being chased is the entire game" are ignoring that many people prefer the stealth aspect, or the map sense meta aspect, or helping teammates, or any number of other things, and not being chased the second they load in or are unhooked.
Slugging, camping, and tunnelling removes that, which is why they're so strong. Survivors cannot use their perks or items unless they brought specific ones for that, which are very limited in usage and strength, and worse, they're forced to sit and endure it, often while the killer BMs them. Killers feel the same way when they have no agency (eg survivors in the exit gates). The key difference being that the latter only happens at the end of matches and can be stopped, while survivors only recently got a very limited abandon option. All of those are still bad mechanics that need to be removed or mitigated.
But at the same time, anything that gives survivors agency to interact directly with the killer, both to counter those situations, or AT ALL, is seen as toxic. Survivors must coordinate and use resources in order to counter them, but if they do so, they're what's ruining the game for killers. This mental framework doesn't tolerate the other side having agency, mechanics, or options.
Do you think it would be a possibility if the reset happens after the unhook? Instead of getting endurance alone the get healed? Keep the endurance part because one shot killers exist?
To be fair if you prefer to play stealthy you should have no problem with tunneling or slugging because you try to avoid the killer or am I mistaken?
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021841#Comment_4021841
But you started with an extreme (all the killer strategies being eliminated) and are trying to work back from that to a more neutral discussion, that kind of poisons the well.
If I started off with 'when loops are eliminated, pallets are eliminated, items are trashed, healing is impossible, what do killers expect survivors to do' - its starting at such an extreme that then getting healthy response is very difficult.
Anyway, I think Firellius answers you here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021821#Comment_4021821
There is no singular desired playstyles.
I want, both as survivor and killer, an adaptive game. Were every game has its unique differences and its not just a repeat of what has happened before.
The worst offender of this, in my opinion, was the face camping Bubba. People would respond with 'just do gens and leave'. But there was no point to playing a game like that.
3 genning merchant was the most common community complaint and its a good one. Even if you had a plan to take it down, it was like doing a spreadsheet, not playing a game.
Tunneling is another extreme. Its the optimal strategy. So if you hit tunneling its like 'okay, we wait to the last second to unhook, body block, and do gens'. The best games of DbD, on either side, create scenarios were it is extremely unclear what the right play is (its also the reason I think the game has survived so long in comparison to its competitors).
So I want basically all of those aspects to be part of the game. Personally, I don't think even tunneling should be totally out of the question but it should come with heavy costs.
And this isn't even unique to survivor, its the same with killer.
Survivors should be able to loop. Does that mean some loops have been too strong? Of course.
Survivors should be able to do gen focused builds. Does that some builds have been too strong? Of course.
Survivors should be able to heal? Does that mean some healing builds have been too strong? Again, of course they have.
Anyway, I hope that is clear, you're asking what the desired play style is. There isn't one, on either side, but some styles do become too strong and/or boring/repetitive and need to be addressed. There's no overarching rule you can put in place, each game element needs to be discussed on its own.
If all things survivor have would be trashed and still someone says to me "They are to strong, boring, or whatever I would ask them what they want survivors to do. Standing there like scared chickens? If they say "Yes thats exactly what I want" I would ask them if he wants a competitive game or a farming sim.
Belive me or not I am a Survivor main which sometimes plays Michael or Chucky (whatever the difference between them is thx bhvr for that…) and I want a fun game for both sides.
I don´t want the blight to rush screaming back to my hook the second my feet touch the grass, I don´t want to be slugged for 4 minutes while the Killer is searching for the last mate which is hiding. But I don´t want the feeling of "I can waste every pallet on the map and know after all gens are done i can still throw 10 more."
I simply had the question. "IF" and i want to have the focus on the IF because it is a theoretical question. IF all things survivor say is unfun, cheap or unskilled would be bannished from the game (which many players on this forum do) what would be the playstyle for the killer players.
I think that some of the tunneling, slugging or camping is part of the game we all play. But if I ask how much is okay or when is it okay I get downvoted but not a single answer.
But why I don´t get an answer? Do survivors really want a bot running behind them looping for 5 gens and clippfarm? Or is there a vision?
I want to go away from the us vs them and ask openly to the other side. What do you want?
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It is part of a discussion that I give you my opinion on your arguments.
I ask a question (Which playstyles make this game fun?)
You give me the answer (Hit and run and 3 Gening is viable)
I ask again (Thats what is fun for you and give examples why I think it will be not fun if these are playstyles which are enabled.)
I want an answer to my question ofcourse, because I like this game and I don´t want that survivors nor Killers are unhappy with it. So let me give you examples of playstyles and why they are disliked by me and many others.
Endgame builds: Personally I don´t fall oftern for them since I run counterforce in most of my matches and destroy totems so that noed is no problem which is most of the time a staple perk for these builds. The Problem is that with perks like remember me it is important to tunnel the obsession out and there is the tunneling problem again…
Playing on Devour Hope: I kinda like this builds myself. you don´t need to tunnel and you can´t camp if you want an effect from the perk. The big problem is if these build would become meta everyone would just hunt the totems down and you are completly perkless.
These would be two playstyles but they aren´t very consistent.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021825#Comment_4021825
You are still dodging my question.
You say there are multible ways that a killer can play except Tunneling, Slugging, Camping etc. but you won´t say which.
We literally already talked about two!
I'm not gonna take your hand and walk you through every complexity that DBD has to offer. I'm not even the most competent killer player to give you that advice. But I've already told you about two tactical elements that you are now claiming I've never mentioned.
I said I am afraid that the playstyle the game boils down too after all the things which you say are not the desired ones is: Killer chases Survivor A till he is hooked. Goes to Survivor B and repeat.
You already said this isn't happening!
I know this is what you want to be happening because that way you have something to be outraged about, but it isn't. The devs have already taken action in the past specifically to protect Hit-and-Run as a playstyle, for example. And 3-genning is still a viable tool, just not to run the clock out for the full 60 minutes. They specifically stated that they erred on the side of caution and chose a gen-kick number that is well, well above the average. (In conjunction with boosting the value of each of those kicks)
If there is more please enlight me.
I already did. We moved past this point. To revert to it now is purely disingenuous.
So you are telling me that Hit and Run and smaller amount of patrolling a 3 gen is the optimal goal or a good game for you?
I wonder why Legionis hated so much if constant healing vs Hit and Run is so much fun…
Why Skull Merchant was a problem when 3 gen is the funnier tactic…
Excuse me but this doesn´t sound like a good match to me and I bet with you that these strategies if they will become Meta will be even more hated.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021815#Comment_4021815
There is no singular desired playstyle. There's multiple ways you can play that survivors enjoy going up against.
Just not tunnelling, slugging, camping, or a 60-minute lock-out.
You are still dodging my question.
You say there are multible ways that a killer can play except Tunneling, Slugging, Camping etc. but you won´t say which.
I said I am afraid that the playstyle the game boils down too after all the things which you say are not the desired ones is: Killer chases Survivor A till he is hooked. Goes to Survivor B and repeat.
If there is more please enlight me.
Thats my whole question. IF all unwanted, cheap, skillless playstyles wouldnt be used. Which playstyles are left.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021808#Comment_4021808
It is a simple question and yes it is theoretical. (I didn´t ask what the devs are doing but what the survivor mains which are clearly unhappy about these tactics would say is the perfect playstyle for a Killer)
Now after that is clea… IF all aspects which are condemd to be lazy, cheap or boring to face are removed. What playstyle is left?
I mean… We've already talked about hit-and-run and gen defense.
I get that you really want to create the notion that there's nothing the killer can do except committed chases, in an effort to make survivors appear unreasonable, but that's distinctly not true.
I know you like your "whataboutism" facts
I'm sorry, but it's incredibly hypocritical to accuse someone else of whataboutism when I'm specifically responding to your
'Well, what if [thing that isn't happening] were to happen, hm!?'
You're 'whatabouting' about a scenario that you, yourself have admitted is completely fictional.
Also, I don't recall ever interacting with you so 'I know you like your 'whataboutism'' makes it sound like you're either cliquing or ban dodging.
which Playstyle would be the "optimal playstyle" for Killers which would survivors like to see so that they can say "Yes this game is balanced".
If survivors cared about balance, you'd see a lot more complaints about the 60% KR benchmark that the devs are aiming at, because it's an admission that the game is being balanced against them.
You could even design the anti-tunnel in such a way that killrates increase and you'd probably not hear a peep, unless it goes overboard. But tunnelling chops off huge components of survivor gameplay, making for stale and boring matches, and people are tired of it. People are quitting over it too, which is why BHVR wants to take action.
I know that Survivors are quitting because of these things and I agree with you that they need fine tuning.
Thats why I am asking: What is the desiered playstyle that would make survivors happy?
I don´t want a discussion about what the devs do nor I want to frame that killers can´t do anything else.
I want to know "What is the Playstyle a Killer should play so that survivors stop deinstall the game"
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021800#Comment_4021800
Then your question just dives into an irrelevant, theoretical situation.
'Well if everything but chasing is nerfed…'
But that's not happening.
'And is the playstyle I described the wished one?'
Evidently not, since Hit-and-run is still in the game and no one complains about it. Also, while 3-genning can no longer lock up a match for 60 minutes until the server time-out hands the killer the win because it erroneously assumes that only survivors can run the clock out like that, it's still in the game as a viable tool.
It is a simple question and yes it is theoretical. (I didn´t ask what the devs are doing but what the survivor mains which are clearly unhappy about these tactics would say is the perfect playstyle for a Killer)
Now after that is clea… IF all aspects which are condemd to be lazy, cheap or boring to face are removed. What playstyle is left?
I know you like your "whataboutism" facts so you don´t have to answer my questions and you don´t have to answer them if you don´t know an answer to them because I know that I have no clear answer which Playstyle would be the "optimal playstyle" for Killers which would survivors like to see so that they can say "Yes this game is balanced".
Alternative question which amount of Tunneling, Slugging, Hit and Running etc. hits the sweet spot for everyone?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021798#Comment_4021798
Medkits copped a nerf specifically to keep hit-and-run in.
That wasn´t my question.
My question was "IF" all these unfun aspects of the game are removed. What Playstyle is left?
And is the Playstyle i described the wished one? Because I guess you really can programm a Killer Bot for this.
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Just a quick question….
If tunneling, slugging, facecamping, proxy camping, 3 gening, hit and run, and creating dead zones are completly removed.
Which form of strategy has the killer left except "Find Survivor A, chase till he is down, pick up, hook and reapeat at Survivor B?"
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Just give Killers something if they hook every survivor once before they reach 5 hooks and maybe a bonus if they manage to get their first dead survivor at 9 hooks.
So every Survivor needs to get hooked once before they hit second stage and Killer Mains which try to not tunnel get a benefit to go out of their way to tunnel.
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It´s always bad to compare the "Streamer" which plays the game for a living against little Timmy who comes back from work and plays one or two games per night.
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I think what OP means is the indirect framing of the word evil.
It´s like saying all Claudette Players are useless because they play stealthy.
Word have a pretty strong power and we know that people will hang on these.
Just look at the word "handholding" or "agency" which everyone uses because the devs said these.
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Didn´t TrueTalent advocat to balancec the game more around hooks and not kills and was shamed to oblivion for it?
I mean if you get 8 hooks and didn´t kill anyone "was that skilled at all" I mean if you see DbD as a hockey match…
I could ramble on how this game is flawed with this logic but one fact stands. If you get 9 hooks and kill 1 Survivor with it the other 3 will let you know that you lost the match at the exit gates.
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It is funny because it is most likely the same all the time.
Someone wants things to be equal and others think they will lose anything about this.
Lets make the Survey equal for survivor and killer and all inbetween. Answer "HELL NO"
Give Killer a way to Abbandon the game. "HELL NO" because Killer can do things all the time (but hitting the floor two times in a row is completly unplayable cough cough)"
Let Killer see the hook status. "HELL NO" because this would make tunneling easier cause the killer who decided to tunnel will forget which person he is tunneling or stuff like that.
But you can say all these have "legit" counter arguments. Except for "Why it would be terrible that Killer complains could be heard if they decide to deinstall the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021350#Comment_4021350
PS. If somebody says "there is an option where you can write down your opinion" Yeah… these things never work because there is no algorythm which is efficent enough to count these opinions.
I'm pretty sure BHVR's staff are capable of reading.
I really want to see little Timmy making a tally mark list reading all the surveys, thinking about which category each individual complain he needs to put it itno, while little Jimmy is letting a machine counting the Xs on the given points.
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@MochiGomé said:
That’s a fair point — skill and experience are definitely what matter most in the long run. However, from what I’ve seen, the issue isn’t that new players can’t use perks effectively, but rather that they often get eliminated before they have the chance to learn how.
If beginners could access a few stronger perks early on, they’d be able to stay in matches longer, gain more experience, and start understanding the game’s deeper mechanics. We should also consider that players who can’t fully benefit from their perks may find the game unrewarding and uninstall it before discovering what makes Dead by Daylight fun.
My idea focuses on improving player retention among beginners — helping them stay engaged long enough to truly enjoy the game and keep playing for the long term.
I think you both got points, but a really "new" player would not understand a single perk. Try to explain to a new player what Red Hering does as example.
Imagine a new Killer with perks like Noed or ruin and so on… it would be a disaster for new survivors because no one would say to them "counterforce" is a meta perk.
Or do you want only survivor players to get perks?
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@Yamskeezy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021348#Comment_4021348
remove collision after unhook. Killer will ignore the DS player everytime to chase the rescuer, or maybe even ignore unhooks. Unhook notifications should be gone now too. Killers have too much mobility to need that information.
Some Killers have the mobilty :P
Althrough the Trapper Mobil is right in the Trapper Cave!
Nananana Trapper!
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I think it is funny that this survey goes full us vs them.
You can see this in the Ups and Downvotes and you can read clearly in the post that person X is a Y Main XD
I play most of the time survivor because I can´t play killer that much since the anxity of failing my performance as killer ruins the gameplay a bit.
But if I would deinstall the game I would like to point out some points for both sides which isn´t possible.
PS. If somebody says "there is an option where you can write down your opinion" Yeah… these things never work because there is no algorythm which is efficent enough to count these opinions.
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Please vote which subject made you quit school.
1.Sport
2. Art
3. Biologie
After 10000 feedbacks the wishes of the people have been heard. MATH is the most liked school subject of all time since no one has a problem with it.
Yeah doesn´t sound right.
But the survey has another misleading step and this is the ratio of survivor and killers. If all killer players on this world would decide to quit because ("Stupid reason or the whole world will try to argument why it is balanced") Survivors grunts of pain are not satisfing enough and all survivors on this world would quit because ("stupid reason") Weskers Hairs isn´t fluffy enough the survivors would win by 4 to 1 regardless.
So if a Killer stops playing and a SWF would stop playing because one friend stopped the scale is tipped heavyly into the favor of survivors.
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To be honest DS is a weird perk. The most value I get out of this perk is if i get unhooked and the last gens need to pop. You run "accidentally into the Killer and beg him to tunnel you". Just don´t drop pallets and greed them while the 60 seconds tick down and make a "stupid" mistake at 45 seconds so DS activates. Most of the time the gens pop shortly after.
The only Buff DS needs is to proc on each unhook as a warning to the killer. The first DS is by suprise the second one is only effective if the killer really wants to tunnel you out.
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@MochiGomé said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021300#Comment_4021300
That’s actually an interesting idea — I like the concept of limited-time trials with BP bonuses. I don’t think the perk tier system serves much purpose anymore, so your suggestion also aligns well with my hope to see the tier system removed in the future.
There is a single problem…
Smurfs would abuse the hell out of it. Imagine starting your first game at Dead by Daylight. You pick some cool sounding perks and get a content farming tiktok Squad in your face with all perks they need to bully real baby Killers/Survivors and not the typical "Hey this is a real game not my friend playing as horrible as he can in a custom game"
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020368#Comment_4020368
Okay. Not using perks is the same as not tunneling. Wow same thing right because it's handicapping? Being blindfolded is the same as not tunneling. Playing at 10 fps is the same as not tunneling. Playing with two hands is the same as tunneling.
"You don´t need to tunnel to win a game and you can survive a match without touching a single gen via hatch or having amazing teammates."
???? You must be trolling or clueless if you don't understand why I said working separately is the same as tunneling (efficiency). I'm not engaging with you any further.
Still you gave not a single point why killers should handicap themself and not tunnel.
And I think your arguments boil down to "survivor fun" or "get good"
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020346#Comment_4020346
I'm not sure where this mindset comes from. Constantly being in chase, especially chasing people off of gens is slowdown. It's some of the strongest slowdown in the game.
The alternative, which is either camping or waiting near the hook to tunnel, is literally doing nothing and calling it a "strategy" all while you allow survivors to do gens for free.
I want to see how you build pressure on 3 gens appart as a non mobile Killer on a huge map. By the time you walked from gen A to B to C Gen A will be completed before you come back to it.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020360#Comment_4020360
An actual analogy to tunneling is survivors working separately on gens and not together! Not not using pallets.
My point was the handicapping part not the game mechanics part…
But as you wish…
You don´t need to tunnel to win a game and you can survive a match without touching a single gen via hatch or having amazing teammates.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020353#Comment_4020353
Ah yes TOTALLY the same thing. Go do it on Gideon or a killer that isn't a baby. You're trying to sound smart but this is idiotic.
It is the same thing not game wise but by handicapping yourself.
Just tell me a single reason why the Killer shouldn´t tunnel and I will tell you a reason why you won´t need to throw a pallet at all.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020347#Comment_4020347
i don't like it when the survivors always prerun to the same OP tile too but it is what it is. at least you can use perks against slugging, you cant really do much against prerun except pick a better killer.
Yeah i know that feeling on Dead Dog… but I am guilty of doing the exact same thing XD. Its annoying but efficient.
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You can win games without tunneling and Slugging. I did this often enough.
You can also loop a Killer without dropping a single pallet by just pressing shift W and use vaults.
Both of these are totally possible to archive but getting rid of a survivor or using pallets in chase makes the game much easier doesnt it?
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020344#Comment_4020344
So this entire narrative that killers NEED to tunnel because x and y happened during the years is false.
Your logic implies that survivors don´t need Pallets because they can run or use windows.
Both is possible but one of these is much easier.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020175#Comment_4020175
this map pressure phenomenon you're talking about doesn't exist. the best map pressure is killing survivors quick. otherwise you'll just walk around pretending to apply pressure.
You could also Slug to create pressure but that isn´t liked either
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@BorisDDAA said:
Killers still tunneled at 5 gens with stronger metas and gen kicking, stop pushing this topic.
Ofcourse Killers tunnel, its a efficient way to generate pressure and cutting gen times.
It´s like complaining about predropping, its a efficent way to prolong chases without any pressure.
@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020320#Comment_4020320
to add onto the gen regression base gen regression is TERRRRIBLE it counts down at 0.25 "ticks" per second. A survivor repairs at 1 "tick" per second wich means a gen has be left alone for 4 seconds to regress 1 tick meaning 4x80 (not 90 since then it would be ccompleted and this leaves room for error) 320 seconds of uninterupted regression wich.. never happens… sure you can say oh the kick itself regresses it 5 "ticks"/seconds yeah that those 5 seconds truly wil do allot (and since it can only happen 8 times it doesnt mean squat 5x8 wich is 40) and this doesnt even help a killer this only "resets" the progression a survivor would have applied to the regressing gen
Also that. The point is not a single survivor who is half decent in the game would say nahh… 90% is to risky now lets regress it to 0%.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020325#Comment_4020325
Even then, it's a stupid idea to focus on one particular generator. If the killer catches on to that, they can just keep interrupting you and maximise your time wasted.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020320#Comment_4020320
Hitting a Survivor with a M1 is like hitting a skill check on a gen.
So since we're trying to draw these things as completely even, when can we expect skill checks to complete 50% of a gen?
Yeah when the Killer only patrolls one gen no clue how the other 2 or 3 Survivors should do the others… but maybe you are really that one guy who leaves a 90% gen to regress to 0% after the Killer leaves the area.
In all my years of DbD i completed some gens without getting a single Skill Check at all does that count for your "Plan" to nitpick anything everyone says?
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020306#Comment_4020306
I wasnt talking about what the team is doing, i was talking about each sole survivor. So take what I talked about and mulitply it by the number of survs not currently in a chase. (Should start using a disclaimer lol)
.
Tried to explain it to him aswell but he doesn´t want to understand as you see.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020310#Comment_4020310
Doesn't help the analogy because killers can regress a gen but survivors can't 'regress' hookstates.
Thats not right.
A Killer can´t regress a completed gen and a survivor can´t regress a lost hook stage.
A Killer can only regress a non completed gen like a survivor who can regress the chase by healing up.
Edit: You could go even further with my analogy.
Hitting a Survivor with a M1 is like hitting a skill check on a gen.
IF you manage to do so you progress your objective, if you miss it you will need longer to do it.
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@sky_9 said:
I use a syringe and use it with a medical kit. If I win or lose the game,will I lose the items and add-ons in both cases?
I look forward to you answer. Thank you very much for your answer.
You lose the Item if you use the syringe, white hand won´t give it back after game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020219#Comment_4020219
If the survivors focus one gen down, they're slowed down by default and they're really vulnerable to interruption.
I think what he wants to say is the following:
You sit alone on a gen for 80 seconds and you are nearly done with it.
Now the Killer interrupts you by getting close to it and you hide in a locker.
The Killer kicks the gen and goes away.
No Survivor in this world would now say: "Mhhh maybe i should start a new gen and come back to this regressing one when we are at the last gen"
Thats how Killer players see it with Kills. If one Survivor is on death hook and sits injured on a gen with 3 healthy survivors…
No way someone says "Ah I will eliminate him when the Exit Gates are powered"
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@Anniehere said:
If BHVR wants to keep the current "Skill" system but improve it, they could base it on performance.
For Survivor:
Chase duration
Gen efficiency (how much you helped repair generators during the match)
Altruism
Death (Punishing if dying at 5 gens).For Killer:
Hook (How many different survivors you hooked during the match)
Gen pressure (How many generators remain when you get X number of hooks).This is a general idea that might help prevent you from playing with players who are too dependent on others with better game sense (or not too altruistic). It could also encourage and reward Killers if we add more ideas to it.
About gen speed, I don't think that the time is an issue. The problem is the lack of early pressure for some Killers. Maybe for the first 90 seconds of a match, gens could repair X% slower to give Killers some time to find someone before one gen is close to 20%.Sounds good but doesn´t work.
Example A put Survivors with equal Skills together. They have short chase time and are bad on gens (low level Survivors) vs Killer with low hooks (low level Killer). Oh wait that low hooks could a killer tunneling or slugging so he gets easier lobbys.
Example B put Survivors with equal Skills together. They have good chase time and are very efficient on gens (good Survivors) vs a Killer which goes for 12 hook games (Good Killer) Oh wait in the Time the killer got his second hook all gens popped.
Or you are telling us that Killers which go for many hooks are worse than the tunneling ones and should go vs not so efficient survivors. This would make the game fun at the very bottom but all above that would be a arms race for the top.
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@tes said:
I don’t know is it even possible to get a respond from devs, but… Why exactly this, when this feature was implemented many years ago and was consistently working? And no one complained on this, because currently this killer having probably the best anti camp in this game and also trigger base kit BT?
When he obviously has actual issues, like aura reveal/killer instinct showcase after uncage, as well as inconsistent logic of cage send, when instead of actual further point it sends to the closest corner, why exactly this was considered as issue?
I think its missleading.
Often you could hear his Cage Sound while nobody was caged at all.
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Oh boy here we go again~
Voice Chat works for SWF because they know each other…
Not a single one of you can convince me that you would take little Timmy in your "Pro" Group who is constantly screeching or cursing you for not healing him vs Legion…
A Chat Wheel sounds like a good Idea in the first moment but I give the example of the "Enemy is missing" ping in League of Legends which is abused to ping for every mistake someone does.
Our Chat Wheel is Pointing and Waving and I bet that 90% of players don´t point at something they want to show you~
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I guess "fun" is in the eye of the beholder…
I think I lost more games to a Stevegul than any other perk, since a bad scream blows cover, prevents unhooks and so on.
Scene Partner is btw one of those perks where i dont understand the Survivor playerbase.
Perks like DS are claimed by so many as completly unplayable cause it only lasts 4 seconds but are willingly to throw whole games because this perk is annoying.
If my memory is right I even think their were tons of chat about the old ultimate weapon where many players claimed the "permanent" screaming gave them headachse but are now running scene partner.
Would be happy to get a feedback why this perks is funny.
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@turksmall236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018345#Comment_4018345
The first survivor to be downed is usually the first survivor to get tunneled, there's also a chance random teammates won't unhook them, letting them hit second stage instead (bad solo Q coordination maybe)
And you know that you will be tunneld or left on hook the second you get downed?
Thats impressive…
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018329#Comment_4018329
It would literally make no difference to me because i don't rage quit my games like a child throwing a tantrum.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue survivor who has no SWF to play with.
Just remember we are just talking about the first down.
Not if you get tunneld or slugged where it can be quiet understandable (not honorable I mean where is your fighting spirit?) to dc. In these Situations the DC penality can stay as it is but i really want to know what is the reason to hit the floor first and dcing right after. Is it really just a broken Ego?
First time I really don´t want pictures of Spiderman but answers!!!
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018223#Comment_4018223
Yeah no. Having those even more insane penalties would obliterate solo queue entirely. Because no one would even want to play solo queue. Basically requiring people to play Killer or SWF just to play the game at all should not be a thing.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue Survivor who has no SWF to play with.
So you can tell me a reason why it should be okay to DC after the first down?
I am completly open to a good argument.
Btw I said in my first Post that i think that the penality is way to long.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018232#Comment_4018232
For my experience people who actually got tunneled are more kinda just give up and let killer doing it faster rather than DC.
They have right to DC, but this is overlapping other people right having fair match. Bot can be better sometimes ofc but all of us know that it's not general true. Bots are… meh
Ofcourse the game can be frustrating "IF" you get tunneld but you can´t say that you "Will" be tunneld this match if you went down first.
Thats the point of OPs Post.
I want a reason why people think its okay to dc in that case other than "Its not fun to not loop Killer on my own for 5 Gens."
I don´t want to punish people with longer dc penalitys I just want to understand.
@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018223#Comment_4018223
Of course you'll get downvoted, those people want to ruin matches without any real consequence when they clearly shouldnt even be playing the game at all.
I am afraid that is the reason…
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018223#Comment_4018223
Nuh, as solo I’m highly supporting your opinion. DC epidemic is even worse then go next one. Can’t count how many actually ok games it spoiled. And yes, devs need to make game more enjoyable. But people who dc on 5 gen for whatever reason should wait to cool their head in the lobby
Don´t get me wrong I understand that games can be frustrating, tunneling, slugging etc can be annoying to deal with.
But what has happend that someone feels like he has the right to dc on the first down. Is the sole reason for I got outplayed a reason to throw the whole game?
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It is funny to me that I get more Downvotes than upvotes since I speak for the sake of Soloque Survivors here.
It doesn´t affect the Killer that much if a Survivor dcs on the first down. He will get a 4k more likely.
SWFs won´t be affected that much either, since they play with that guy and can dc together or ask him what is wrong with him.
The problem with the dc on first down is a huge problem for Soloque and I still didnt hear a single point why it should be okay to do so.
You can´t say the Killer is tunneling or slugging or facecamping the moment you get downed first and all you do is throwing your teammates under the bus.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018184#Comment_4018184
OP has no point, there is already an egregious DC penalty system in place that shouldn't even exist for a casual game plagued with issues. And no, people don't DC from matches that are fun, they literally DC because the match isn't fun and isn't going to be fun, otherwise they would stay and have fun. So maybe, just maybe, BHVR should focus on the glaring balance issues causing awful matches and work on that, instead of imposing more restrictions in effort to force people to participate in matches because people aren't going to if they don't want to.
Okay so OP gets their wish, now Survs will just go afk and you won't even get a bot. What's the next step? Make accruing afk birds incur a steep penalty? Yea I'm sure that wouldn't be abused in any capacity in a game that's built off of abuse lol
So Killer has to ask for permission before he downs the first survivor if the game is fun enough to down them?
Op ask specifically about people who get downed first, there is no camping, slugging or tunneling with the first down so what is a fun game? If the Survivor loops the Killer for 5 Gens?
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@Roco45 said:
Yes, give people punishments instead of, checks notes, making the game fun for everyone. Yes, what this video game needs, that people play for fun, is punishment on top of punishment, but I guess anything to force random human beings into playing a match with you lol
Yeah Survivors should be untouchable for the first down! Till they got 5 Stuns on the Killer or the Exit Gates are open!!!! /s
I understand where you come from but it´s sad reality that people dc on first down no matter if the match is fun or not.
I think one hour bann is way to long for this but OP got a point.
It is frustrating to play Survivor and you can bet with your mates that the random will dc in the first 30 seconds if he gets downed for whatever reason.
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It´s kinda hard to bring this on one simple term.
Since everyone thinks that tunneling is something else.
Last time I played Killer and went out of my way to hook everyone twice so that my first kill was on the 9th hook. Sadly the 8th hook wanted to bodyblock hard for his rescuer (which was healthy) was downed and hooked again.
The Endgame Chat was horrible, filled with messages to off myself because i can´t win without tunneling.
Another great example was the new Anti Tunnel on the PTB, where many claimed that it´s useless since the killer will just tunnel two people out.
I won´t say something about slugging because in my opinion no killer is designed to tunnel someone but some killers (Oni, Twins, etc) are designed to do that and as boring at it is, its their design that leads to this. (Would be funny if Oni gets his Power for each hooked survivor so that he can interrupt his power to hook someone.)
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The point of this topic about what can be done against the situation that one Survivor being forced to watch while the Killer searches for the other.
To this topic i gave my Idea until you started with the "Yeah what about someone rats you out at 3v1"
I can give Ideas how to fix a boring Situation that occurs because of the Game Design… I can´t fix useless teammates
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014352#Comment_4014352
When 3 survivors are alive if gens are 4-5 then its gg if the survivors dont pull 3 gens chase but some experienced or stealthy players might tend to just hide and wait till one dies and then race for hatch you see going next isnt really fixed and survivors can now dc or give up. So your idea only fixes 4k slugging and makes 4k super rare.
Do you want new ideas or do you just want to say I want to win?
If you belive it or not it is possible to win a 3v1 even at 5 Gens.
You can´t ask for changes what could possibly be done against the slug for the 4k and then go with the whataboutism in other scenarios.
Thats not how this works.
Thats like saying "If the game starts and one person decides to bring Left Behind and stealths all game what about that?"
My scenario is for the impossible 2v1 Situation
Not for the its still possible situation but one person is a rat.
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I like this game but it can be hard at times and both sides can take you the fun.
If you play survivor and you get tunneld at five gens it feels kinda ######### but the worst thing in my opinion is a mate who dcs in the first moment something happens. I can understand that people dc against Ghoul or Karuse (I said understand not tollerate) but I won´t get people dcing over getting hit by a Deathslinger or getting stalked by a GhostFace.
As Killer its more the bugs for me.
I understand that the game isn´t perfect but if 3 Survivors are crouching in front of the hook to help the wiggling team mate out and the Game decides with auto aim that my target should be the hook I get frusttrated.
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The main Problem is the unbalance in who can dc at which point.
Don´t understand me wrong, if all Survivors are hooked or slugged it is totaly fine.
But in the last time I get the abbandon Button if I get picked up in the middle of the game?