KnotEnthusiast
KnotEnthusiast
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This map is horrible for both sides imo. Every pallet is unsafe, so you'll just get bloodlusted around every one and go down. But on the flipside the hallways are so cramped and there are so many unsafe pallets that every killer just becomes an M1 killer, because half the roster can't use their bloody power. Good luck hitting a chainsaw or hatchet on this map.
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The Game is safe pallet heaven when you're killer, with RNG dead ends that will randomly end your life as survivor. Plus it's insanely claustrophobic and tremendously unfun all around.
And Hawkins is the opposite. Every pallet is unsafe, but there's a million of them, and the hallways are miniscule so you can't use half the killers in the game's power. Plus more RNG rooms.
Just delete every indoor map. Lery's isn't bad, but it's still not great either.
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While hex perks are supposed to be stronger, you've just consolidated Rancor, Infectious Fright, Thanatophobia on steroids, and reverse Nemesis into one perk. I like the idea to a degree, it just does wayy too many things for it ever to be balanced.
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Oni, his power is the most satisfying of any killer in the game.
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In addition, offering bonuses, event bonuses, and BBQ stacks are additive, rather than multiplicative. For example, you might think that, because BBQ, Survivor Pudding and double bloodpoint events all say that they double your bloodpoints, you would get 8x bloodpoints at the end of the trial (2x2x2), but that isn't the case. Each "doubling" of your BP just adds the amount of BP you earned in game onto your total, rather than multiplying it. So rather than 8x bloodpoints, you get 4x (32000 base + 32000 BBQ + 32000 Pudding + 32000 Event)
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As BenZ0 said, it goes up to base +8, which is why it synergises so well with Infectious Fright. Extra terror radius mean more people screaming.
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@Arxaion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155878#Comment_1155878
Legion isn't weak at all, they're pretty strong right now in light of the Ruin change.
Uhh...Legion is tied with Clown for the worst killer in the game at the moment. I don't know how removing his only method of not having all 5 gens done in 4 minutes somehow made him stronger, but if ya make it work, good on ya.
In terms of perk combos I use:
Huntress: BBQ, Whispers, Nurses, Game delay perk
Huntress is imo the most powerful user of Nurses, besides perhaps nurse herself. You can get so many downs by chucking a hatchet at a person healing in a corner who doesn't think you see them. BBQ for BP and so you know where to go after a hook, and whispers is super important on Huntress for early and endgame. Early because it tells you where not to look for survivors, which saves a bunch of time on a killer who's quite slow, and endgame because people will play super immersed when they hear the lullaby, so it's nice to have a way to track location.
Oni: BBQ, Infectious Fright, Monitor and Abuse, Ruin
Infectious and Monitor are used so incredibly well on Oni, it's insane. The small TR out of chase allows you to get so many free hits, because his heartbeat is already super soft compared to other killers, so if you stay out of sight you can basically be 8m away before they even start running. Then in chase with Blood Fury up, it gives you a bigger TR to synergise with Infectious Fright, allowing you to see all nearby survivors and decide if you want to end your power and pick up the person you downed, or slug and go for the next.
Survivor: Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, Kindred, We're Gonna Live Forever
My usual BP generating survivor build. Play altruistic with unhooks to get WGLF stacks, with BT to help with safe unhooks. Kindred to determine if I should save or stay on gens, and Dead Hard because I'd argue that, if used correctly, it's the best exhaustion perk in the game.
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No Mither has its strengths, albeit in a very niche usage. A squad of 4 no mithers with resilience, or 4 no mithers saboing are actually hell to go against, because you can never slug to build pressure. I'd much prefer they buff perks with literally 0 viable usage (looking at you, Open Handed) than ones that can at least be used successfully in some situations.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
I tried pointing this out and I got attacked for most of my replies. All I can say is prepare for war.
I personally think that he has too much going for him to be the "centre of balance" and too much power in one button.
Apologists will also say that you can just 360 him or his chainsaw punishes bad positioning, which is just wrong. It rewards the killer bad play on both sides. Some generators are NOWHERE NEAR window vaults or pallets that you can use to avoid him and there's no 360 you can do against a Hillbilly tapping his chainsaw to be within 1m of a survivor.
There is also zero punishment for missing/colliding with terrain, unlike Nurse, Spirit, technically Freddy (teleporting to the wrong generator) or Bubba. Not even a cooldown until you can use the saw again!
He can also tap his activation to hover the meter, unlike Pig, Doctor, Deathslinger, Nurse, Spirit or Freddy. One you go for it, it's all or nothing.
Oni, who has basically the same ability, has to BUILD UP his power by using his actual weapon and collecting resource.
Now when you play him like a normal killer, as in use his hammer, he's GREAT! Still really strong, but infinetly less frustrating to go against. It also opens you up to more perks, such as Third Seal or Sloppy Butcher.
By all means, use the saw to bait a pallet. If they drop it, eat it. If they don't then you get a saw down. Use it against teabaggers and punish them for toxicity. Bridge the gap against Adrenaline or snipe people. Have some actual SKILL with your saw!
Saw-Billies are on the same level as BT, DH, DS abusers. You are exploiting one particular feature about part of the game for massive benefit. These people are just getting too great a reward, and only loosing out on some Chaser emblem so they can't double-pip as easily.
I don't like Billy because I've versed too many of them, been hit by too many unfair saws, and had too many apologists just tell me to "Git gud" for anyone to justify his current state to me. Because of his player-base. Because of those who think the saw is a weapon and they're godly at the game for it.
Billy is the popular King of the Meta on console and it's time for a coup. Let's dethrone him already and get some variety back in the game.
Ah yes, exploiting the game by using a killers power for it's intended purpose, BHVR get the ban hammer out ASAP. And while we're at it, gotta ban the Wraiths that use their bell to go invisible, everyone knows the only allowed use is to play a rousing song for the survivors.
Billy base kit is fine. Instasaw and crack Billy are busted, because CTG is a broken addon, but everything else is fair. Billy is counterable if the survivor is better than the killer: I have seen top tier players get absolutely shredded on Billy because survivors knew to stick close to vaults and not allow themselves to get caught out in an area with no cover. Billy is strong, definitely don't get me wrong: he was one of the few killers pre-Ruin nerf that didn't need Ruin, but he's still not OP by any stretch of the imagination. He's a killer with a moderate skill floor and a very high skill ceiling (curving is something I'm terrible at, even with almost two thousand hours in the game).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157428#Comment_1157428
What does gen speed have to do with avoiding, mitigating, or countering Freddy’s power.
Sorry but that’s what you have to choose between against Freddy: powering through gens, or bettering your odds of survival during a chase. You can’t have both, and in the case of Freddy one of those choices doesn’t mutually benefit the other like against other killers.
And 60 seconds in DBD is actually a long time with the fast paced nature of this game. And if you find that too short, use the Alarm Clocks. Keeps you awake for 90 seconds.
The alarm clocks that are coded to spawn as far away from you on the map as possible? You say 60 seconds is a long time in DBD, and yet your solution for countering the power is to run across the entirety of the map at minimum once every minute and a half. That's so much time wasted for Freddie to start getting hooks and forcing slowdown in the form of map pressure.
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@Science_Guy said:
I can appreciate the effort, but the fact that one of the worst killers in the games has one of the highest kill rates is an obvious sign that the data pool isn't representative of actual stats.
Not that that will stop people from seeing what they want to see.
Honestly, I can believe it. Killers like Wraith are bad base, but with addons can be incredibly good in the right hands. Wraith himself is a really good example: base kit he's hot garbage, but with double windstorm addons he's actually an extremely good killer when paired with the right perks. ScottJund is an incredibly strong Wraith player, he's a good example of the potential of the killer.
In addition, OP is at red ranks (which I know doesn't mean too much these days, but still), and the only people who play bad killers at red ranks are those with a decent mastery of the killer.
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@Deadman316 said:
I've mentioned this on other topics and will repeat here, Ebony Mori's should be reworked to where a killer can't perform it until they've hook a survivor twice. The Ebonies can deplete the field in very short time, one minor change should make it more challenging and killers can't use it as a crutch to easily kill survivors.
Or similarly, they can't use them until they've hooked everyone in the trial at least once. That way they at least get an advantage out of it by having the ability to take a survivor out early, but the team has some level of counterplay in having survivors who haven't been hooked yet play super safe to avoid giving the killer the opportunity to mori.
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@Nickeleye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157417#Comment_1157417
I agree. As I said above. You have to slug to turn the tide of the game sometimes.
If your always slugging and leaving them on ground for long periods of time. I think that goes into toxicity and not strategy.
Oh, most definitely. If there's 0 advantage to slugging and you do it anyway, you're just being a prick. But you're equally a prick if you're a survivor who thinks that slugging at all is toxic and flame a killer for doing it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157423#Comment_1157423
Of course you can’t mid chase.
But if you can AVOID being asleep before Freddy initiates a chase, your odds in that chase improve significantly.
Do you realise how short 60 seconds is? That's only 3/4 of one gen, with 0 slowdown perks. Even if the Freddie finds you the nanosecond you finish alarm clock-ing, and he has 0 slowdown perks or addons, a solo survivor still won't finish a gen before you're asleep again. In which case he spams traps, gets downs, and teleports away.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157337#Comment_1157337
And pretty much everything you just mentioned can be countered by using an alarm clock.
Just wake up 4head
Can't do it in a chase, and on a 60 second timer, 0 seconds if you get hit. Good luck after that.
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@Nickeleye said:
Survivors belong on hooks. Not on the ground. You have to slug to turn the tide sometimes. If survivors want to stay around me injured, while their teammate is down. Sure, I will hit them. But I cant think of any reason a survivor should be on the ground longer than a minute. Unless a killer is being toxic or cant find where they crawled off to.
DS should deactivate after a killer has hooked another survivor. 1 minute is a long time in the current state of dbd to be invisible.
My general rule of thumb is when a survivor is within sight of me when I down someone, if I think I can down them before the person on the ground gets picked up, I will slug. Slugging is the best game delay the killer has, and learning when to slug IMO is one of the most valuable skills a killer can learn. Leaving one person slugged and chasing the close by survivor takes the number of possible players on a gen from 3 to 1.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157264#Comment_1157264
I don't get the survivor ideology of "boring" killers. Like what abot him is boring ? That he slows you down while also beiing able to move fast over the map to apply preassure. He's got completely same standart M1 playstyle as so many other killers.
Literally the same mindgames and loops as you do with Wraith, Shape, Bubba, Clown, Legion, Plague and Ghostface just a little less greedy. Nothing really extremely different or deep about all of their playstyles either. Are they all boring ? If so then that's pretty sad since then you won't be having much fun in DBD if you don't enjoy classic chase gameplay.
What makes a killer boring is that there's no time when the survivor wins an encounter. With Huntress, you can dodge 5 hatchets and force a reload. With Billy/Bubba, you can cause him to miss a chainsaw or bump and get away during the cooldown. Even a basic killer like Wraith you can force a cloak because he needs to make distance back up. With Freddie, you never win. You drop a safe pallet in front of him? Literally all he has to do is spam 6 traps around it, and you can't even make a loop without him catching up, There's no cooldown or punishment for using traps, but they're incredibly powerful against the survivor, so he wins just about every time. Combining this with the fact that, even if a chase goes on for more than a minute and a half, likely no gens get done because he has built in game slow. There's no mindgames or outplays required. Just spam traps, m1, hook survivor, gen teleport, PGTW, and repeat.
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@Mo4ntus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157059#Comment_1157059
all of these things are countered by waking up
Lemmie just wake up mid chase, I'm sure Freddie will stop and wait for me.
I despise playing Freddies, for precisely the reason everyone's said: He's a braindead, boring killer with 0 counterplay when you're asleep. Stack slowdown perks and addons, and you get a game that lasts 8 years, against a killer that wins every chase in 45 seconds because all he has to do is spam traps around a loop to get an easy hit. Can't even gen rush him because every Freddie above rank 4 runs thano, pop and a slowdown addon, so a single gen takes 2 minutes to finish, if you're not interuppted. So you have a killer that can win a chase extremely easily because he can force slowdown at every loop with 0 cooldown, can run perks and addons that mean it's nearly impossible to finish a gen in the time it takes him to win a chase, and has a map-wide gen teleport so that he can instantly PGTW regress any gens that have progress on them after he's gotten a down. I'll kill myself on hook every time, honestly.
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@Keezo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155144#Comment_1155144
The idea is to be able to easily swap out your obsession so you can harass the former obsession without losing stacks
That makes no sense, because the person you're chasing will always be your obsession. Without nemesis you have a 1/4 chance for the person you're chasing to be the obsession, with Nemesis you have a 4/4 chance.
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@notsonew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155298#Comment_1155298
if you would have played him you would know that he has nothing to really apply pressure and his power is way too punishing if you miss, so making everything faster is the only possible option
I have played him, quite a bit. Like I said, he's weak at applying pressure because he has no mobility, but in a 1v1 he's extremely strong. By buffing his map pressure by making him faster, you make him oppressive in a 1v1, where you basically have 0 chance to do anything.
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@itsDman3504 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1154846#Comment_1154846
can i ask about the use between those? i would think they work against eachother no? or am i missing the strat?
I think he means Play With Your Food, unless he really likes having a useless perk slot lol
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@FichteHiro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155278#Comment_1155278
He can't break Pallets while you are speared. My point is, spearing a Survivor at a long loop doesn't really help since you can't get the hit most of the time.
I agree with you that he's exceptionally good at vaults, tho.
But you're missing my point. If you're chasing a survivor around a long loop with the pallet unusued, they either have to drop the pallet early, or risk getting shot at the long side of the loop if they try to maximise the amount of loops they can get. If they drop it early, just kick the pallet, and that resource was severely underutilized. You don't need to try to play the down safe pallet as deathslinger, just kick it and keep chasing.
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Only thing I really agree with is that reload speeds could be a little faster. You can't make anything else all that much faster without making him even more oppressive in a 1v1. The unfortunate fact is that a killer with 0 mobility (and especially 110 killers) will always be harder to win games with than those with movement abilities.
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@FichteHiro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155258#Comment_1155258
Even if he does shoot you after you drop the Pallet, he'll most likely not be able to catch up and hit you. This is unfortunately the case at most loops since they are relatively long. Dodging his spear depends on your reaction time and has its own skill cap.
Dodging his harpoon is entirely luck and prediction based at loops unless the killer doesn't know to instantly shoot. It's a max windup huntress hatchet with zero indication it's coming besides for the tenth of a second of gun raising.
And he doesn't need to catch up at a loop, he just needs to kick the pallet. You don't need to outplay a safe pallet if you have a ranged attack and the pallet is down. The player has to play comically safe and drop every pallet 2 loops early to avoid getting harpooned, in the process draining the resouces of the map crazy fast. Especially since Deathslinger is incredible against vaults.
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I see someone's never played Apex, their netcode and hitboxes were worse than DBD's lol
I've never really had that much of a problem with it, on either Huntress or Deathslinger. If anything I find dedicated servers to be the biggest hinderance, I get hits 2 feet behind the survivor's head.
Also every time you say FPS Shooter (First Person Shooter Shooter) I die a little inside lol
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@FichteHiro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155030#Comment_1155030
It has generally the same skill cap as dodging a Hatchet. However, I get the point, it is a tad bit more difficult to know where he'll shoot his spear, but since its hitbox is smaller, both factors balance it out at the end.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155031#Comment_1155031
He can't do much against Pallet Loops, the Spirit can overall do more against looping.
I completely disagree. As long as the loop has long sides or isn't circular (Jungle gyms, basically every basic loop except McMillan) he gets hits for free, because you just quickscope the long side. The only option is to drop the pallet instantly, in which case he kicks it and then shoots you when you run.
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I think he's a good bit stronger than Huntress, due to the lack of windup. He can basically quickscope and get an instant harpoon on you for not a lot of effort. He's not broken in the macroscopic sense because he has zero map control and survivors can just do gens fast, but in the 1v1 he's a lot like spirit: there's really not a whole lot you can do besides drop pallets super early and try to predict when he's gonna take a shot.
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At the end of the day, Saboing isn't good. You have to devote time running around after the killer and the person he's chasing, meaning you're not doing gens. And if the killer catches on, he just drops the survivor, in which case you're now getting chased, and the person he dropped is still slugged. It's fun, but odds are you're not escaping because you're devoting so much time and effort to denying hooks. Same reason that flashlight squads tend to be ineffective as well.
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@Daniel101773 said:
Mines actually a 3 perk combo of STBFL to speed combo all but the obsession, PWYF to get a benefit when I do see the obsession & Nemesis so I can swap obsessions and lets me go after everyone.
Don't Nemesis and STBFL have anti-synergy? If you get stunned you can't hit the person without losing stacks.
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Monitor and Abuse and Infectious Fright for me. Smaller terror radius to sneak up, then significantly bigger when you down for bigger Infectious range. Oni uses this combo insanely well, same with Nurse and Billy.
For survivor probably Ace in the Hole and Plunderers, or (boringly) BT and WGLF.
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All of y'all are babies and don't remember/weren't there, as HP150 is totally right. Release Hag was unplayable, with terrible perks. She was stunned whenever she teleported, and placing a trap took literally 2 seconds. Ruin was terrible on release as hitting a good skillcheck didn't stop gen progress, just regressed it a tiny bit, Third Seal is still pretty bad today, and totem placements were bad so DHope was basically impossible to get going.
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I'm fine with a single consistent structure for survivors in basically all maps. Just learn to run it, it's really not that hard to get it out of the way unless you misplay. There's absolutely no need to nerf it.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135425#Comment_1135425
How would you know he has a mori? I'm thinking of scenarios where they have NOED and take you out, hook you, you get off and they mori you when you should be able to get free with DS.
Sorry I should have said perks should trump offerings, in most cases they do, but not with DS. DS has been nerfed so hard it has very few opportunities for use.
is...is that a joke? DS is one of the best survivor perks in the game right now lmao
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Just with nurse blinks myself. If I lean forward I go farther, it's proven science.
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I think a lot of people now have both a more rosy glow about old nurse because it's been so long, and also never faced one that was actually extremely good. Old Nurse, even addonless, was the only killer that could beat the mythical coordinated SWF depip squad, assuming the player was a top tier player, and especially if you ran perks like MYC, Ruin, or other exposed/slowdown perks in addition to tracking (which most good nurses didn't, because she just didn't need them). She had the ability to end a chase in 30 seconds or less, regardless of map and structure.
That being said, did I enjoy going against an addon-less nurse? Absolutely, even good ones. Addonless Nurse basically turned every chase interaction into a mind game, and that was definitely fun. But at the end of the day, she was still a killer that ignored the basic mechanics of the game, and could wipe the floor with just about any survivor team, even without addons.
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@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1146065#Comment_1146065
And you saying spark plug isn't fair completely invalidates your opinion.
Play hillbilly. Play killer in general.
I played hillbilly at rank 1 almost exclusively until Oni came out. All of Billy's charge addons are ridiculously powerful for their rarity and need to be nerfed. CTG is easily one of the top 5 most powerful addons in the game, and things like spark plug and primer bulb do wayyy to much for being a brown and yellow respectively, especially seeing as they have 0 downsides. Base Billy is perfect, he's a killer that a new player can learn and excel at low ranks with, but will get stomped at higher ranks unless they starts to learn tricks and techniques that separate the average Billys from the good ones (Curves, slides, even stuff as simple as feathering at pallets). And all of his other addons are perfect: engravings have a powerful effect while also containing a big drawback in charge time, and his turn addons change how he can be played and buff his power without being oppressive. It's just the charge addons that make builds like instasaw and crack billy overpowered, because they negate all drawbacks of his power basically for free.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1146288#Comment_1146288
If Freddy is highest, where does the Nurse place going by numbers alone?
Pretty low, as per the graph linked above. Because she is very hard to play, she has a very low kill rate, only about 48%. She's the only killer under 50%.
But that being said, a good nurse is the best killer in the game, unequivocally. Once you get the blink muscle memory down, she's oppressive and can end chases insanely fast. It's just getting good with her takes a lot of work and lost games, and with blink recharge she's a lot less fun to play these days. Also her addon nerf dropped her kill rate massively because beforehand you could make up for your lack of skill with broken addons like omegablink or 3 blinks.
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@Nurgling7 said:
Gideon's is only more dangerous for Survivors because the random map generation actually can hurt them there. There are a bunch of safe pallets, but the routes are always different and there are often dead ends.
I hate the map as both side because it's such a pain in the ass to traverse.
Exactly this. The amount of times I've died because I ran into a room with literally no exit is insane/ But that being said, it's still an incredibly survivor sided map if you know what you're doing. Gideon's has literally the safest location of any map in the game with the double pallet room directly down to the double pallet pathway in front of the basement stairs, in addition to a ridiculous number of un-mindgame-able pallets around the map. The only reason the kill rate is so high is because 1. immersed survivors always hide on it because they're always in heartbeat, and 2. if you use up the safe pallets in an area every chase lasts 10 seconds because there are 2 vaults on the entire map. Gideon is a terrible map, no matter which side you play.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
No need to be an hex perk
It absolutely needs to be a hex perk lmao. Any perk that allows you to mori the whole lobby needs to be a hex, especially with killers like Plague that force the survivors to be injured.
But I like this concept, albeit with a little tweaking. I don't like the idea that the only way to know that the perk that lets the killer kill you if you don't heal is in the game, is to suddenly be prevented from healing, thereby dooming yourself. I think Hemmorhaging/Mangled would be better, as it forces survivors off gens by making their repair speed slower, and them easier to track.
Also, I think it needs to reset on healing, and can't tick down in chase. Or else a killer could basically just injure and bloodlust every survivor, then mori them before hooking them. I know it's a hex totem so there's the opportunity for it to be cleansed, but the potential is there.
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@AceOfSpades1773 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1091360#Comment_1091360
I'll admit, I don't really play Trapper. So I'm unaware how this'll change their gameplay.
It's actually a pretty huge QOL change that trapper players have been asking for for 3 years.
I also think the "hype" was just them talking up their joke video for the announcement, which I honestly found bloody hilarious.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1091301#Comment_1091301
God, I hope not. Not another low teir killer.
Demo isn't low tier unless you don't know how to play him. He's solid B+ A- tier.
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@Exerlin said:
They need to give hexes some sort of effect after they're destroyed. This would allow them to be strong if unbroken and have a reliable effect if the perk gets destroyed. Every hex perk except maybe Haunted Ground and NOED should have some part of the perk remain active, but just not the strongest part.
I disagree, I think that the fact that they have no effect after they're destroyed is what allows them to be as strong as they are. The hex perks themselves are fine, the problem is that it's basically RNG if you get a totem spawn that's well hidden, or in the middle of an empty bloody field.
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@Snitz said:
The base of 80 seconds and stacking speeds are fine, the problem comes in with toolboxes that make gens take 53 seconds, and killers who have no pressure in the early game, this can be fixed with CI, but I don't know if devs will allow it to be mandatory on low mobility or setup killers.
Reducing toolbox speeds might be a decent fix if the nerf is strong enough, but I think they are flawed by design and giving them another function entirely would be even better, though I'll admit that I have no idea what they could do with them other than making skill checks easier and making gens silent.
Exactly this, as well as one other consideration: Map size. If I got survivors that I knew were either using weak or no toolboxes, and I knew I was getting maps the size of Coal Tower, I would never use slowdown perks. I wouldn't need it. The reason Ruin was so prevalent was because of maps like Ormond or Red Forest, where by the time I walk across the map to find the first survivor, they've already finished a gen because it takes so long. Reduce map size, or scale gen times off the square footage of the map, and nerf toolboxes, and the game speed is perfect.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1005121#Comment_1005121
You won't always be near a locker but that's a fair point you make.
As for corners, Billy can definitely hit around corners!!!! and I think that's one thing about him that annoys people, the hitbox feels extremely large. I know it doesn't always feel that way using hillbilly but on the survivor side it seems huge.
When did members of BHVR call him their standard of balance? if that's the case then why is almost every other killer lacking compared to him?
Also according to stats he's the second most picked killer with the second highest kill rate at red ranks, so technically he's "overperforming".
You don't need to change my mind and I don't need to change yours. I appriciate seeing another side. There seems to be two very different camps for Billy, "OP" and "most balanced". I just know that I always felt like Billy was a bigger pain that Spirit due to ease of use. Everyone focused on spirit but thats because half the player base didn't know how to play against her. But then half the player base also pick spirit up and dont know how to use her or aren't confident in using her ability. Meanwhile anyone can pick up Billy and figure it out. They won't have the timing against pro loopers but in general they'll be whizzing around the map and get a few instadowns when the survivor is out of position.
To my knowledge, both Peanits and McLean have commented on Hillbilly, with the "standard of balance" coming from McLean.
And as for the stats, keep in mind that the period that they made that decision was directly after the SWF changes, where large quantities of lower ranked players were being matched against red rank killers. While comparatively he is still doing better than his peers (he is a top 5 killer for sure), the stats are definitely overinflated. I mean, both the Doctor and Wraith have ~70% kill rate according to those stats, and to say either of them are OP is honestly laughable.
And while we are looking at stats, I think they prove the opposite to your point. Spirit's kill rate for all ranks is around 71%, whereas at red ranks it's 76%. That's only a 5% difference, which implies that she's just as effective at low ranks as she is high. Compare that to Billy, where at all ranks his kill rate is 65%, but in red ranks it's 76%, an 11% difference. To me, that says that lower rank players can be just as effective with Spirit as red rank players, whereas it takes some skill with Billy to be better.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1005020#Comment_1005020
Instadowns
Myers - Needs to delay the chase to stalk survivors. Instadown is time limited and expires.
Ghostface - Needs to Stalk survivors. Instadown is time limited.
Oni - Needs to collect blood orbs, generally by injuring two surviors. Instadown potential is time limited.
Leatherface - Unlimited instadowns, however suffers a HUGE penalty if he misses or hits a wall. Movement speed is slowed down while charging to slower than survivor speed meaning he needs to get extremely close and piggyback to use it.
Hillybilly - Unlimited instadowns. Suffers a minor penalty if he misses or hits a wall. Can still move as fast as a survivor when charging which allows him to rev the chainsaw behind them and line it up without losing distance.
Winner: Hillbilly
Speed/map traversal
Spirit - Can travel a limited distance at 176% speed. Has to wait 15 seconds for her power to recharge afterwards leaving her with no chase ability at 110% speed. Can move freely.
Freddy - Can teleport to any generator in the map. Has a 45 second cooldown
Wraith - Moves at 126.5% speed. Has to unclock once has found a survivor before he can attack. Can move freely.
Oni - Moves at 195.5% speed. Has to have demon mode activated before he can activate the dash so can not use this on demand.
Demogorgon - Can teleport to any portal, however has to place the portals first. Portals can be destroyed by survivors. Has a 14 second cooldown between teleports.
Hillbilly - Moves at a whopping 230% speed however limited movement. Has no cooldown so can turn around and immediately chainsaw sprint back an unlimited number of times. Can instantly go into attack and use his power fully in a chase.
Winner: Hillbilly
So all in all he has hands down the best instadown ability, and in terms of map traversal I'd say it's between him and Demogorgan but I'd give the nod to Billy since he can use his power at the very start without needing to place portals first and survivors can't stop him by destroying portals.
So best instadown and best speed.....and he's the only killer that has both strength AND speed. On top of this zero cooldown on his power so he can sprint sprint sprint and swing swing swing that chainsaw as many times as he wants all trial.
If Hillbilly is "the most balanced killer" then you're basically saying almost every other killer is severely underpowered.
In what world is a free crossmap teleport at minimum every 45 seconds somehow worse than having to traverse the maps at double speed, but if you bump into anything with limited turning ability, you get stunned for 2 seconds? You do know that Hillbilly has a cooldown and charge time, right? And that he can't turn on a dime and gets stunned if he hits something? And while we're making silly arguments, lets do some other ones:
Is Countered by Locker Juking:
Meyers - No
Ghostface - No
Nurse - Yes, but you lose distance so she hits you immediately after
Leatherface - Yes, but you need to know the timing
Oni - No
Hillbilly - Yes
Winner: Everyone but Hillbilly
Is Countered by Going Around a Corner:
Meyers - No
Ghostface - No
Nurse - No
Leatherface - No, unless you're bad and bump
Wraith - No
Pig - No
Hillbilly - Yes, outside of initial curve
Loser: Hillbilly (and Leatherface but he sucks)
I know I'm not going to change your mind. But when basically every top tier player and multiple members of BHVR have all said that Hillbilly is their standard of balance, I don't feel as though I really need to.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004947#Comment_1004947
You could make a case for either Nurse or Spirit being better than Freddy, but they are all definitely 100% the top 3 killers.
Freddy might not be AS strong in a chase as either the other 2, but he is way stronger in a chase than all the other killers. The only killers who rival his chase potential (as in tied with not superseding) are Clown and Huntress. But he is way stronger than them because a chase is not all that matters.
Compared to Spirit or Nurse, Freddy has more map pressure and more utility with his kit. Spirit is pretty much pure chase machine. Her map pressure is solid, but is dependent on add-ons and the size of the map/position of the gens. She can suffer in some cases here. Same with Nurse. Unless she has range add-ons, she loses map pressure on bigger maps. Freddy however always has maximum map pressure because he can teleport clear across the map. He also has add-ons that can help slow down the game, and the fact you are Oblivious when asleep gives him an auto-counter to BT which is huge. He also has semi-stealth potential if you are awake since you can't see him until he is within a certain range. Freddy has so many useful tools it's hard to ignore them all and just say "well Spirit/Nurse are better at a chase so they are better killers".
So while Spirit/Nurse have him outmatched in this one aspect of the game, he beats them in several other aspects while not falling too far behind in the former aspect either.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I just personally think that no killer can rival Nurse's ability to end a game. Freddie has map control with the ability to travel to gens, but Nurse can travel from survivor to survivor instantly, chaining downs together at insane speeds. If you run a build with infectious on a small map, you can win before half a gen gets done. That's the reason I consider nurse in a class of her own.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004937#Comment_1004937
Yes killers are meant to punish survivors for mistakes but Hillbilly is too punishing. The survivors can have one little mistake flip the game in an instant. No other killer can do that.
He has the fastest speed in the game, no cooldown on his traversal unlike other killers, the easiest instadown with no need to "earn" it like say Myers or Oni, and a very minimal penalty to using it unlike Leatherface.
So we have a killer with no cooldown, the fastest speed and the best instadown....yes "the most balanced killer" I'm sure.
Hillbilly has both a charge up time and a cooldown on every use of a chainsaw, just doesn't have to gather resources like Meyers and Oni. And both have significantly more maneuverability when using their one shot power, unlike billy. Neither also have a penalty for missing and hitting a wall like Hillbilly does. When charging his dash or his lunge, Oni doesn't lose movement speed like Billy does. Each killer has their tradeoffs. Hillbilly is balanced.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999701#Comment_999701
It's not as in survivor's control as other killer powers. Literally all you need to do is hit them and put them asleep. And while they can go wake up or fail skill checks that takes time, either directly by making them take time to find clocks/other survivors or by increasing action time with failed skill checks.
His base teleport is on a 45 second cooldown. You get up to 60% cooldown reduction if everyone is asleep, which comes out to 30 seconds. Even if they stay awake, 45 seconds isn't very long to wait. If used correctly the pros greatly outweigh the cons.
He is indeed S tier. He has too many tools to be anything else.
I'm not arguing that Freddie isn't good, because he is. I'd argue that at this point he's either the second or third best killer in the game. I'm just saying he doesn't have a power on a borderline nonexistent cooldown that ignores every loop in the game instantly for consistent hits. That's S tier. Freddie is A tier for sure, possibly even the top of A tier. But at the end of the day, Nurse stands on her own, even with nerfs.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1004903#Comment_1004903
And yet in most games Billy is downing my team left and right and so fast it's hard to keep up, meanwhile Spirit is often much slower. This is after thousands of games so it's not a one off or a bad game it's something I'm seeing consistently. Most people that go down to Spirit are the Nea's that stand there or crouch when Spirit is phasing....as if she will magically go away.
As for myself, I find it less stressful evading a Spirit. It's often easy to predict her next move and avoid a hit. Meanwhile you can loop Billy but with the very generous hitbox on that chainsaw half the time you get hit around corners or at times when you really don't think it should have. Also one mistake and you're instadowned. He gets unlimited swings with very little penalty for a miss.
Hillbilly is a punishing killer: bad positioning and poor resource management both result in him getting an instadown. But if you play intelligently, he is beatable with structures and good pallet usage. He is not an easy killer to beat, but he is beatable. That's why he is balanced.
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@Trwth said:
My guess with their Billy change is that they’re gonna fix the chainsaw’s hitbox and/or make it more like Oni’s kanabo attack, meaning harder to control. Other than that, not much is gonna change besides the add-ons... I hope.
As is, he has very little control over his chainsaw outside of the initial "curve" duration. Oni's limited range is only during his lunge, which Billy doesn't really have. He had a flick, like Oni did, then it got nerfed, like Oni did.
The only Billy change that needs to be made is reducing the effectiveness of all his charge addons. CTG is absolutely ridiculous and honestly shouldn't exist, much less be a green addon.