Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon
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There are the "working on it" sounds and the "gen noises" sounds. Looks like all the new sounds (which are all pretty obnoxious and distasteful) got all put into the latter category regardless of what category they actually should have been put in.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Every killer and their mother is abusing the DS, and they're saying we're toxic and play scummy, hah... It's funny
Definitely not today, it was supposed to be this today. It got delayed, what a surprise.
And what part of "survivor equips perk, game bugs out, killer continues playing normally after being freed from stun" constitutes abuse on the part of the killer?
More importantly, I feel like people aren't aware that this bug affects all wiggle outs on applicable killers and isn't really just a specific "DS" bug.
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I mean, you can't do anything about the perk not working the way it's intended other than politely wait for three seconds after the stun finishes, and that's just silly.
As of right now, I'm sure the expectation from survivors is already there that it won't be very effective if they're still using DS. There's no need to feel bad about it.
I should also point out that since your not equipping the perk and you're not doing anything out of the ordinary to purposefully trigger the bug, you aren't abusing the bug.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
I think BHVR has too much Pride to let anyone else code their game.
I so agree with this. But it's not just pride. There are heavy tones of arrogance and condescension.
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@Blazelski said:
I honestly think the bloodweb being mostly junk is the point, for the devs. For me, every offering but possibly a mori (when I really need one for a challenge/daily) is completely pointless. Even the best offerings, like Pudding/Cake/Streamers, exist so you spend bloodpoints to make bloodpoints. Hook distance increases only matter for a Sabotage SWFs, and Coins only matter for loot goblins like myself. Other than moris, the best offerings are map offerings, and I never use them because they are boring as hell.
Add to that flashlights, broken keys, maps, most of the addons for those items, and bad killer addons. How much of a bloodweb is actually something you want that will make a trial more fun for you? I'd guess between 20-30% of it. Most of it is there to encourage the grind, it would seem.
I use hook decrease distance pretty regularly on most killers. Helps a lot when you have all four survivors slugged in one part of the map.
But hear hear! No more blueprint junk in our bloodwebs! Do away with them! Thematic stuff is stupid when it's worthless for anything but toxicity!
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@xerav said:
So not only has the killer to down someone he also has to reach a gen to regress 20sec of 1/4 of team survivor. If this is a problem then i wonder how you would think about sabotage or ds removing the entire progress of team killer in the last 30-50sec....
okay, so I wrote you a shorter reply earlier because I was tight on time for the moment, but since you brought it up, the Sabotage and Saboteur issue has a solid place in my heart.
First off, I don't like what the devs did to toolboxes. Having a burst of speed only at specific points is totally worse (for me and the way I play my games) than having toolboxes that shaved more time but over a longer period. But that's not my main point; back to sabo!
How sabotage should work
Sabotaging takes 18 seconds.
Hooks do not automatically respawn.
If a survivor wiggles off of a killer's shoulder and there are no useable hooks within 32 meters, then all hooks within 72 meters respawn after a ten second delay.
Each time a hook is sabotaged, it will take 6 seconds longer to sabotage every consecutive time.
Hook caps are changed so that hooks spawned in because of their restrictions are spawned in already sabotaged and will not respawn until a survivor wiggles off (see above criteria).
What this does
Survivors are discouraged from sabotaging all the hooks in one area. Survivors are encouraged to leave one or two hooks standing unless absolutely necessary to prevent a critical hook from occurring. Survivors will be able to sabotage hooks near objectives and in dead zones to force the killer to hook a survivor in less convenient places.
Killers won't be put into situations where they cannot hook anyone and will be forced to think more tactically in many cases about what the survivors are doing in terms of hook placement.
Perks
Saboteur
- unlocks the ability to sabotage at 70/75/80% speed without using a toolbox
- toolbox consumption when sabotaging is decreased by 16/22/28%
Hangman's Trick
- hook sabotage skill check success and skill check bonus zones are reduced by 40/50/50%
- hooks take an additional 4/4/6 seconds to sabotage each time they respawn.
If this was in a PTB, you would never have problems with sabo, and it would be used outside of just niche builds.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1625510#Comment_1625510
Me personally, I would rather have the 25% regression. It is useful in games that you are battling to protect the last few gennys.
I appreciate your suggestion. But skill check speed will be quickly adapted to. And it would require you to run all over kick gennys, losing time you could be chasing.
I don't think I can respond super objectively to your first comment, mainly because it's your opinion, so I'll focus on the latter part for now.
The reason my suggestion is the way it is is because the devs have stated that they like introducing perks that have "synergy" with other perks (for w/e reason, but okay). I would see use in situations where Hex: Lullaby is at 3+ stacks, giving survivors even less time to react and prepare for a the faster needle. And the idea would be that a killer would isolate problem gens first and then go out of his/her way maybe once or twice to trigger Pop on those gens, giving up chase efficiency at one point in the match to make generator completion harder as the game progresses (i.e. the killer has to make a tradeoff at least once in the match unlike much Pop use currently. This warrants a potentially powerful effect (eg. Overcharge + Pop could trigger skill checks continually until the survivor hits it or lets go of the generator to purposefully miss one and stop another skill check from appearing.)
If nothing else, I want to see this in a PTB. Testing would really be the only way to tell how it affects matches.
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@Shenanigan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1628579#Comment_1628579
Well I do see where you're coming from though and I understand. (Even though you may know this already) we can't forget the PTB for blight and graphic updates for badham and yamaoka and gens, etc was a week behind from the current version. Maybe they did plan out to add the gen sounds in the PTB but they had to give what they could share. But either way I do understand your points nonetheless.
I mean, yeah. It's just disheartening when things like the PTB are a week behind. Like, how is any of our feedback going to be relevant.
It just feels so much more like a publicity stunt (new killer announcement once for the PTB and then again for the live release) than anything productive. :/
I completely get the fact that there's a lot of negativity, and often on its own, it seems completely unreasonable (and at various times may be, or directed at the wrong individuals). I would feel terrible working on a project like this where I knew there would be at least one change in every patch that the community hated. But for a lot of people who've been following not just the game for a long time but the developers, their announcements, and the way they treat community concerns (see MCote's Civ VI statement), it usually feels like not much has been done to change any of that mentality.
I didn't mean to pooh pooh your attempts at reducing negativity, but I did want to point out how often the devs seemingly don't look for player feedback before going through with an idea (another example being the extent to which the devs changed Hillbilly before even releasing a word to the public, and everyone else went, "What? Why?").
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@xerav said:
So not only has the killer to down someone he also has to reach a gen to regress 20sec of 1/4 of team survivor. If this is a problem then i wonder how you would think about sabotage or ds removing the entire progress of team killer in the last 30-50sec....
I have problems with those too, it's just that when survivors try to use those perks against me, it usually never works out and everyone ends up slugged....
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@Shenanigan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624459#Comment_1624459
It's usually just the devs wanting to try something new. Arua readings were a flop obviously, but I keep seeing everyone complain about something that they probably wanted to try out. Hell in their defense they've been using the same gen sound for 4 years "And they should've just left it it as it is like how it was 4 years ago" . In all honesty after 4 years of hearing or doing the same thing I'd want to try and experiment with something different too. The devs made bad decisions before, but this is just something they probably wanted to experiment with and had high hopes it would have some sort of positive feedback.
Hell I'm starting to think that some employees bet $5 if someone complains about something they recently added.
I'm normally not ALL for the devs and there decisions but seeing the devs wanting to be a little creative only for it to be deemed as unnecessary by the community and playerbase itself, is discouraging to see.
cough PTB exists cough
I'm all for the devs trying crazy and whack things, but not with the live build D:
I'd love to see tests on place-able totems, radical changes to NOED, Pop, gen speeds, priming pallets, whatever you can think of that might make the game better. I don't want those changes suddenly forced on me in the live game.
That's the reason PTBs exist. That should be their sole purpose: to gather information from the players on what new additions the devs are thinking of including. One of the two times the PTB was used like that was for the self care change that just made all healing actions 25% slower while granting the ability to heal yourself. Everyone disliked it, but it was an awesome change for the PTB!
The reason I'm so negative on the changes the devs make like this is because
A. They aren't using the tools at their disposal for testing things
B. Things from the PTB often aren't changed even if they are buggy because (and the following is a guess after reading reviews on Glassdoor* in addition to what various devs have said combined with the knowledge I have of how companies often work) management forces teams to push out patches on a timeline that's not suited for non-buggy, large-scale updates.
This probably WAS a change that was meant to be included in the PTB but was not included because both the PTB and patch were forced out prematurely.
My annoyance isn't really directed at the developers but at the people who make them put things out that are buggy or unfinished. Bloodlust stayed over from PTB into live for the first few days at least, issues with gens popping on the PTB were only addressed in the hotfix recently, and countless other things from all of the recent PTBs have been included in the following live build even when it's very clear that they are bugged or not all that pleasing to the community.
*https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Behaviour-Interactive-Reviews-E651096.htm
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Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
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Don't touch gen regression speed. That's a terrible idea. I like long games as survivor, and I tend to kick gens regularly as killer (just for points, mostly), and what you are saying would basically further kill any kind of stealth around completing generators in DbD.
I played against a Huntress on the game in recent memory who had almost a three gen, and the match took what felt like hours longer just because of how much the gens would regress between when she came to check them and by the time one of the two survivors left came to work on it again. It's painful to know that you're playing all of your cards right and showing that your knowledge of routes and paths is better than the killer's but be trapped in the same match just because gens regress when kicked. It probably wasn't any fun for her, but game mechanics told her that she should keep trying even if that wasn't going to prove her skill. I eventually escaped through the doors (after Meg bled out and Huntress closed the hatch). Don't make experiences like that more painful for everyone involved.
Real solutions to "genrush" come in the form of preventing pallets from being used the instant players load into the match (eg. an untethering animation for every one that would "prime" pallets for use (this also prevents stupid survivors from dropping important pallets early) or causing survivors that sprint to alert the killer of their presence through a loud noise indicator if they're far enough away and the killer hasn't started a chase yet / hasn't had a chase within the past 60 seconds). Changes like that would definitely affect how survivors behaved around gen completion, becoming less inclined to just run to a gen and sit on it without preparing any escape options before the gen interaction.
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Really? The instant I turned off cross play, the difficulty level of the survivors shot up. This was before rank reset, I should say. Most importantly, it felt like I stopped bullying players with less skill.
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@RepostRiposte said:
Your idea for a perk rework probably isn't good if monstrous shrine has a more powerful effect.
I....I'm sorry, but do you have the wrong thread?
@Clevite said:
Pop is a strong perk that rewards killers for winning chases and hooking as opposed to slugging. It also incentives leaving the hook to go kick a far off genny.
The best counter to pop is to spread out and work on different gennys, as is often the best counter to many killer plays/tactics in the game.
Chances are if the killer is getting a lot of hooks, you are losing anyway. If he gets just a couple, pop won't be very effective.
To your latter two paragraphs, those are my exact points. It's terrible designed because it works just like you've stated. It encourages "genrushing" and it doesn't affect survivors who aren't meta gamers and instead affects survivors who would otherwise (without Pop) give the killer a closer game.
To your first paragraph, I will reiterate that the kind of gameplay you say happens with Pop happens normally regardless. There is no downside to Pop (free extra gens!) unless there is a group of survivors who are part of the problem of maximum gen efficiency (against whom Pop should be effective).
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@DetailedDetriment said:
The main issue is that Technician is useless. The silent repair aspect does nothing if the generators are wirring and spurring.
This.
And also that the sounds just don't make any sense. Again, the devs have gone and just input whatever they think is right without any feedback from the community prior. It's no wonder that there's so much annoyance on these forums.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh9oWDhWkAAszfc?format=jpg&name=large
Number 2 and 5 are Killer Bugs.
Also, may I introduce you to the 2 second Stun against some Killers? I mean, that Spirit I went against yesterday probably did not mind that she had only 0,3 seconds of distance gained by me to cover. Let alone the Hill Bug where Killers took a lot of advantage from.
And honestly, all the Bugs mentioned... Never experienced them in my game except for the sound Bug, but rarely. This is for my Killer games. For Survivor games, I noticed the "cannot Hook"-Bug exactly once. So they are kinda rare.
This does not mean that they should not be fixed ASAP, but it is not like Killer is unplayable.
I'm pretty sure the DS bug only applies to certain killer frames (eg. not the one released with Demo), but I haven't seen this proven yet.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624539#Comment_1624539
Sometimes the killer will be so caught up they dont use pop, sometimes the nearby gens are already regressing, sometimes you hit a gen that doesnt have even 25% progress on it. Its not guarenteed that you’re always going to get the full value of Pop
Theres a lot of perks that give or take time on either side.
Sure. My argument is that Pop is the worst offender and requires as little deviation from any playstyle to use. BBQ affects your behavior after hooks. Dead Hard makes survivors play differently (specifically, more aggressively). Unbreakable causes dying survivors to think differently about their next moves. Pop...just works unless you decide to not use it or if you're doing too well to use it (eg. no significant progress on any gens).
Regardless, this thread is about Pop, and saying that there are other problems doesn't really add all that much to the thread.
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@ClickyClicky said:
It takes 20 seconds off a gen. A Dead Hard for distance will possibly add that onto a chase and that can activate 12 times per game too.
Yes, it can add two entire, additional generators before anyone is dead. Dead Hard can make chases last significantly longer, too.
Both have issues, and this post is about the issues of Pop. As you can see, it's very long. Adding Dead Hard to the post would be a nightmare. So, it's not included. Additionally, Dead Hard would need to be brought in by all four players, have them be injured without an instadown or an exhaustion hatchet, and have more than one hook until death. It takes a little more to get 12 Dead Hards to significantly extend a chase than it does to get Pop to significantly extend gen time.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624443#Comment_1624443
Soo there should be some special way to get the hook? You caught survivor, you did a good job and now you are rewarded. How many good survivor perks doesn't require good play?
I'm going to pop in on this back-and-forth and say that Devour Hope has special requirements around hooking that cause the killer to adopt a playstyle that can't as easily capitalize on survivors going for hook saves. It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for Pop to have a hooking requirement that needed a different survivor each time to be hooked (similar to BBQ, but repeated).
Additionally, using whataboutism (i.e. What about badly designed survivor perks?) is a surefire way to not prove your point, if that was your goal. If your goal was to be contrary, then congrats! You've done it! However, this is a post specifically made discussing Pop's problems and potential solutions, and there are plenty of other posts out there about the issues of DS, Unbreakable, Soul Guard, etc. I would link you to one, but that would require extra effort :/
I don't mean to be confrontational, but whenever I see whataboutism, I feel like I should say something.
Edit: and feel free to think I'm wrong
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DbD has unironically helped me too (after hurting me, but still). I now have a great understanding of terrible company response to a community, an example of how easily a company can manipulate a populous into not paying attention to real problems, and more knowledge about just how powerful money can be as an influencer. Additionally, I have learned more than I ever though I would about what is bad game balance and addiction.
It's a great example to use in all of the situations where I need to have a "popular" problem game to present!
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@Orion said:
Here's my rationale:
If DS is in play, the killer cannot afford to let it activate in the end-game, because that's just a guaranteed escape. Therefore, the killer must force DS to activate earlier, and the only way to do that is to pick up a survivor within 60 seconds of them being unhooked.
What do you think? Does DS cause more "tunneling"*?
*For the sake of this discussion, assume "tunneling" means that a survivor was picked up by the killer within 60 seconds of said survivor being unhooked.
EDIT: And no, I'm not saying that "tunneling" would go away if DS were removed. I'm saying what I actually wrote, don't try to extrapolate or assume anything else.
I typically just slug everyone and eat the Unbreakable-s instead. I'll down the recently hooked survivors regardless of whether there's a DS in play or not.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
Haven´t watched every match yet but ye, there´s truth to that. At least now everyone that´s interested in the topic can see that Spirit is not as op as some people make her out to be, at least not against good survivors.
To add to your point, it also implied that good survivors can´t be beaten by any Killer but a solid nurse, so there´s that.
Apart from that I really enjoyed watching it - very good teams, very well organised tournament..
at least, against survivors using iron will
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Yes, they ****ed it up recently when they changed the add-on descriptions for him. I left a bug report.
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but like, it would need to be blocked during any ranked game because SWF exists.
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@[Deleted User] said:
playing dbd
exactly what I was going to say.
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@WheresTheGate said:
While this isn't gamebreaking like the aura changes were the new gens sounds are just as annoying. I don't recall there being some sort of outcry to change the gen audio, much less to a sound that is significantly louder and completely out of place. The first time I heard the sound earlier I seriously wondered if a new element had been added to the game and I was going to have to find a replacement battery for the generator. This was an unneeded, unnecessary change that made the game worse.
The developers love changing things that don't need to be changed and end up making the game worse in one aspect or another. The community has to push a brick boulder up a hill to get the developers to even think of changing anything else.
But then, ofc there's money, which speaks louder than a thousand posts.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624392#Comment_1624392
So you don’t like pop because you don’t wanna do gens? What?
Firstly, wat?
And secondly, you like holding M1 for significantly more time than is possibly balanced?
And thirdly, that's not my point. It's not that I "don't like Pop"; it's that Pop is unbalanced and should not be considered fine just because the rest of the game is unbalanced when it comes to how fast survivors can do gens unimpeded.
The TLDR for the post (because it seems like you need it) is: Pop is overkill against a group of survivors who are at or slightly below the killer's skill level and doesn't affect survivors that are max efficiency on generators; the opposite of its intended effect. Pop also requires minimum effort to use, and so it's an "add two more gens" perk for free (because the devs can't figure out how to balance their core game it appears) in any match where the survivors aren't aiming to finish all the generators in seconds.
It's like Botany Knowledge but it affects generators and is more powerful and is with an activation requirement. Botany Knowledge isn't on my list of perks to address because it's a small fish, and small fish aren't an issue. Pop is a big fish.
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ooh! ooh! I know! Revert all the add-on changes! Every last one of them (except Range which were bugged since the Pig patch)! Then they'd all be interesting!
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@ Antares2332 said:
This is not another pop thread.
This is another bad excuse to nerf one of the more balanced perks.
Also, I've never seen another thread about pop.
@FlamingkittyUmad said:
A lot of people will be in denial over this because of how much they rely on it, but this perk in it's current form is not healthy for the game. Hooking a survivor already cripples the team, the limitless gen regression makes it way too easy to snowball. Imagine if survivors got a free BNP any time they pallet stun the killer? Yeah..
What the perk really needs is a cooldown OR restrict how many times it can be used on one gen consecutively (less reduction after every use on one specific gen maybe)
They exist. I'm still having some issues with the search function, but I'm pretty sure there was another one around the same time as that one that had basically the same name as this thread (why I named this discussion the name it has).
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1624365#Comment_1624365
If a killer is using pop so much you can’t do gens, then last longer then 10 seconds in a chase. Also don’t be doing the same gen, spread out and pop should not be a problem.
I see... so, you are assuming survivors are just pounding gens while someone's getting chased and the reason Pop is getting used so much is because the survivors aren't trying to meta-game the video game? Sounds like something I addressed in that wall of text that I call the OP...
But regardless, survivors in my games aren't going down like flies. Survivors are going down at a reasonable rate, but most survivors in my games don't enjoy just sitting on generators whenever they can even when no one's being chased (a shocker for you, probably!), and not one of the survivors gets mad at the others in post-game chat over that reason. It's that when a survivor does get hooked, regardless of how everyone had done the generators stealthily even while the killer was searching in the area, all of that progress and time eked out little by little is gone in a single kick, repeated over and over in the match, mainly because the survivors around me don't like ending matches in seconds flat.
I should point out that your suggestion is to "genrush". Doesn't that seem like an issue? The only way to avoid the use of a perk meant to stop generator progression is to complete generators as efficiently as possible? Sounds like it wouldn't affect games where survivors ARE "genrushing" and would affect games where survivors AREN'T "genrushing". This atrocious design is what I point out in my OP.
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I was a fan of the simple gen sounds from before. The clunks atop the rumbles was fine; there was no reason to change unless you were bored and had nothing better to update in the game (and there are many other things that are better deserving of sound updates/changes because the Hillbilly's chainsaw sounds rn suck).
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@RizeAki said:
I’m pretty sure almost everyone agrees pop is fine as it rewards good gameplay if it became a problem for you try to last longer in a chase
....I was going to say something about "good gameplay" and "almost everyone agrees" (and have you asked WHY or even IF they do or if they just accept it unquestioningly?), but then I realized the latter half of your sentence makes no sense, mainly because it isn't a sentence.
So....what are you trying to say?
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@Blazelski said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621009#Comment_1621009
You are indeed a very rare survivor if you prefer the kinds of situations you described in point 3. I couldn't feel more the opposite.
Anyway, I think the next step for you would be to describe what you want Pop changed to. This is all hard to follow when you're only saying what you don't want and what you think it is, rather than saying what you want and what you think it should be.
I guess you do have a point about proposing solutions, because most people are more easily convinced when there is a concrete solution supplementing arguments and explanations.
But yes, I do prefer playing that way, and this typically means that I don't enjoy the majority of my games as survivor rn.
To possibly give a little more about myself as a survivor, two of the best experiences I've had in Dbd (there are others I'm leaving out for the sake of distinction between events) are as follows:
- A survivor game in green ranks against a Nurse who killed two players early on and left me and a Dwight left. We managed to combine extreme stealth, tense chases, multiple hook states, one unbreakable (Dwight), and one kobe (me?) to complete all the gens and almost powered one exit gate (before EGC, bless that time) before the Nurse downed me (don't remember what happened to Dwight, but he didn't get hatch or exit gates, sooo). It was a blast. There was extreme tension, the Nurse was not a baby but also not a death machine, and everyone agreed afterward that it had been a great experience, The Nurse included.
- A three survivor game against a Pig on Suffocation Pit, where I somehow gained a sixth sense due to map awareness and deftly evaded the Pig's approach at one crucial point without anything going on in the game to alert me of her presence (I guess I was just guessing how fast she could move between gens and how long she would take to come back to the generator I was working on?). Regardless, there was stealth, intense chases, and game sense that eventually allowed me to secure the hatch. The Pig was somewhat bewildered, and I wasn't exactly happy about the hatch escape (I would have preferred to finish the gens), but I was pleased overall.
I really enjoyed playing against old Nurse and Hillbilly (before Infectious Fright was introduced :/) because it meant that I had to be at the top of my game or die. Now, Hillbilly is a clown on wheels-- a laughing fest, if you will-- and Nurses either don't cut it or don't exist.
What I would most prefer is that Pop just not exist, but THAT'S not going to happen, so I would advocate for:
Pop goes the weasel:
All generator skill check needles move 50% faster. Each time a survivor fails a skill check on a generator that you've kicked at least once before in a match, a tremendously difficult skill check is triggered immediately after.
I'll add the above to the main post.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621974#Comment_1621974
How would this be enforced? Dunno about other platforms, but on Xbox the party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Heck we can even be playing different games. And a few years back i believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. What could the devs do even if they wished?
This suggestion is coming from a PC player who doesn't know anything of the rules of consoles.
Not sure what DbD could do about consoles other than an ineffective "are you using comms?" question (because who would answer that honestly if they knew there would be limitations in-game because of it), but I play with cross play disabled, so any change that's even localized to the PC version would impact every game against or with SWF I have.
impossibility has not always been impassable.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621971#Comment_1621971
I don't have any ambitious on a video game, I'm just having fun, enjoying each game, lose or win
some people play the game to have fun, and that fun for some is being ambitious about winning matches and being challenged by opponents. Some people are chill, and some are more competitive. What I said was merely a comment--nothing more, nothing less.
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Again, SWF comms should be one perk slot down for every person in the lobby. The empty slots would be filled the "SWF perk", the one that allows for survivors to communicate across the Fog.
I would be more willing to play with and against SWF that way.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621145#Comment_1621145
I don't understand why killers are obsessed with 4k...
I think the offering is balanced, killer can change his gameplay around it too, the trapper or hag and others can too.
I'm mainly play survivor but when I play killer I'm happy with 2 or 3k. So let them take their hatch, it's not a really big issue to let one or two survivors escaped as a killer... Is it?
you are not an ambitious killer, clearly.
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if only Matthew Cote was here to be a salesperson for Civ VI again...
Edit: I'm still betting a butt-ton of marbles that he "got in trouble" for that because he was advertising another game and not because he insulted the community.
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@Mandy said:
Hag, always has been. She's also my least favourite killer to play as, I don't even do Hag dailies I just really don't enjoy playing as her.
Hag is bae. On both sides.
But to the OP, Freddy and Deathslinger. Both just make me want to go afk and leave to make a sandwich or something. Several other killers fall into the second to worst category (eg Doctor because his chase music is bad).
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Tell that to me after I'm using Insidious and Third Seal but have both perks be rendered worthless because players are "cheating" around intended game mechanics.
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Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
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People generally don't think it's unfair when they're caught off guard (i.e. most stealth killers). People think it's unfair ("no counterplay") when their input could be done by a computer.
The most complaints arise when a killer can disregard opponent skill to a large degree, and this is most noticeable in chase, especially against killers such as Deathslinger or Spirit (maybe Blight? I haven't played against him personally and haven't seen much gameplay of him).
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you should go to bed. Sleep is important.
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I always run hook offerings to increase their number, so I haven't really noticed any changes.
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@dugman said:
"Take away all the new killers and survivors and maps and character changes over the last 3 years and you have almost the same game from 3 years ago"
🙄
while I would have given you a LOL if the button still existed, I think the OP's point was that nothing's been done to the core of the game to address generator speeds, the free availability of chase resources without any effort from survivors, or the ability for survivors to know where the killer is at all times due to the incredible amount of information constantly being fed into survivors' heads.
i.e. that novelty and monetization has been the blood and breath of this game for the past three years rather than anything substantial.
Ofc, that's my summary of what I think OP's saying. I'm hoping for some minor changes at least to the core gameplay, but I'm not expecting radical changes from these devs any time in the near future, as much as I would perhaps hope for some.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1607865#Comment_1607865
is that a joke ?
no. it's ugly, which is subjective, so I'll clarify.
It looks like Fortnite's graphics. Or Grounded. Or Drake's Hollow. The plasticy and fake sheen everything has to it turns me away from the game. Additionally, so many assets look out of place or like they haven't been thought about in relation to the whole (eg gens, lockers, etc.). Also, just colors palettes in general don't seem to be adhered to as much as before. (This is a user who has low fps, was forced to have AA, and plays on the lowest settings).
Lery's also now has terrible collision on most of the new assets for Huntress' hatchets, and only recently did the developers remove some of the invisible collision blocking a hatchet throws in the treatment theatre room.
And Chase music is, well, too melodic (i.e. Ti la, si fa fa so fa mi) and not emulative enough of the raw nature most (if not all) of the original music had. I'm not a fan of something just because it's novel, unlike apparently a lot of other people?
But maybe I'll like it eventually? However, right now, I'm not a fan.
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@thelittlemonsters said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/191598/another-pop-thread
First off, interesting post even if I disagree.
“You don’t need Pop if you’re doing well.”
That’s somewhat true. However you don’t need most perks in a game that you’re doing well in. No player can just say, “I’m going to do well in this next game. I don’t need gen regression.”
To make changes to a game you should first look at how the game will go with optimal play. With this it’s easier because you don’t need to be some godly player, you just need to learn a very simple advanced tactic: split pressure.
Let’s take a look at this timer on both sides and what can affect it while taking split pressure into consideration.
80 seconds per generator if you’re alone on a gen, which is ideal because the more gens being worked on at once, the less of a chance the killer has to win. This is the optimal strategy to win. There is no killer that can counter that. So, if a killer gets a team that consistently works on two or three different generators at once and they’re playing optimally by downing the survivors once every thirty seconds, each chase is allowing almost half of a generator to be complete.
Add whatever gen speed you want in that: stake out, toolboxes, resilience, etc.
Consider that each survivor has three lives is we consider hook stages to be lives.
Add travel time from downing these survivors to hooking them.
That usually adds 5+ seconds to that chase time. That’s 35 seconds.
Now the killer goes to kick a gen without Pop. That gen regresses at .25 charges per second.
In this fairly common scenario there is already another gen almost, if not already completed off of one hook.
You could argue this hook allows the killer to pressure harder, which is true. However, the timer is in the survivor’s hands. If they play well and someone stays on the generators that timer goes down really quickly.
As far as the argument gen progression is fast but not fast enough to need Pop, let’s look at Clown.
In the current meta he’s D tier, but before gens went this quickly -pre nerf Ruin- he was toward the top of A tier.
So no, Pop doesn’t need to be changed when all that’s keeping what was a top tier killer in the lowest bracket in many tier lists is the gen speed.
Ah, this:
"So no, Pop doesn’t need to be changed when all that’s keeping what was a top tier killer in the lowest bracket in many tier lists is the gen speed."
Yes, the latter statement about Pop is often very true. The only difference between us is that I think Pop should be changed at the same time as the addition of some other match-lengthening mechanic cough un-tethering pallets cough and you think Pop should only be changed after everything's been settled.
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Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
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@Blazelski said:
Okay. I read it all. My response.
- "It's the more hooks a killer gets, the more gens the killer gets and the less likely the killer will every be challenged by a group of survivors that doesn't tryhard on gens and only plays to enjoy the atmosphere." - This is just naive. Dead by Daylight isn't a game to just enjoy the atmosphere. It isn't that kind of game and never will be. It's an asymmetrical competitive multiplayer game that includes an atmosphere, not an atmospheric sandbox with a small threat on the side.
- You start off a paragraph with this, "Giving the killer a way to directly add time onto that timer without actually proving him/herself to be smarter, wittier, and more brutal than the survivors is wrong." Then you end that same paragraph with this, "and you CAN'T use Pop when you NEED its effects." I can't tell if you want this perk to be a reward for good killer play or to be a crutch for bad killer play. What do you want this perk to do? Also, this is a silly statement: "Getting hooks is something that just happens over the course of the game." If the number of hooks one gets isn't the general measure of skill, what is?
- It's cool that you camp and slug and that you wouldn't get much use out of Pop as a result, and I also use less slowdown and instadown than most (I often play a fairly benevolent killer), but as someone who has started to grow tired of dealing with Pop as a survivor constantly, it's much more exhausting to go up against someone who camps and slugs instead to make up for not using slow down perks. I'd rather be slowed down than disabled.
- I came into this thread being annoyed with Pop and thinking it needs some kind of change. I'm leaving this thread being more okay with how it works than I was before. I only think Pop is heavily overpowered in the hands of Freddy, especially one with BBQ or probably Tinkerer, and that it needs some kind of change to make it less oppressive when he uses it.
1. Ah, I'm saying the atmosphere comes from the threat, not that the threat is on the side. If there was no killer, it would be an incredibly *****y experience because the game is ugly and lacks innovative sound design (no offense, sound team). I do play survivor for more than the chase, however, and occasionally things will happen that make me go "do I play this game too much to know that this stealth Pig would come over to this spot at the map at this exact time?". Most of the newer killers I don't find that much fun to play against if only because their powers have been mutilated and formed to be good at starting chases (and/or defeating stealth and/or injuring a lot of people without significant killer-survivor interaction). I'd much rather get downed/hooked twice and die than get downed and hooked three times and die.
2. I'm saying that the perk is bad because it either is overkill and rewards the killer for not doing anything special or can't be used in a case where the killer actually needs the help. I'm also saying that it ISN'T a perk rewarding good killer play and it ISN'T a perk that is a clutch save (like Unbreakable). It's neither, and I don't necessarily want it to be one or the other (both have merits). I just want it to NOT function the way it does now.
If a killer is against a survivor group that is tough, and the killer manages to do well, Pop will not be used to max usefulness (or maybe not even at all!). In that case, the killer gets a minor (or no reward if he only hooks everyone after all the generators are done) for doing well against tough opponents. If a killer is against a group of survivors that are less skilled, then the survivors are going to see the entire effects of Pop (2.5 more gens) when the killer goes for a 12 hook game because the survivors are easy enough to defeat. In that case, the killer (who arguably isn't doing "really well") gets a disproportionate reward in comparison with his/her skill when contrasted against the opponents' skill. In the case that both parties are evenly matched, Pop can single-handedly win games by just adding on more gens without requiring the killer to do anything extra.
The previous paragraph is the explanation to why Pop is unnecessary (salt in the wound) when killers are doing well and doesn't come into play when it is necessary against better opponents.
If this perk were to reward killers for proving themselves beyond just what would happen in the normal course of the match (because, yes, getting hooks "just happens" oftentimes. No killer goes into a game expecting no hooks, and 12 hooks just means that you and the survivors were matched incorrectly not that you did anything particularly special), then I would say that Pop would be a well designed perk. Gaining a benefit in one area by making things a little bit harder for yourself in another sounds like good balance (eg. Devour Hope).
I would definitely say that the frequency of hits and/or downs is a much better indicator of killer skill than the amount of hooks, objectively speaking.
3. My view is probably pretty unpopular as a survivor, but I would much prefer being slugged or being otherwise incapacitated against killers than being 12 hooked or slowed down immensely by perks and add-ons (I HATE 12 hook games as a survivor. All that it means is that I'm no match for the killer and should have died earlier; there's no room for hope or thinking, "I deserved this escape" if I do escape). All of my most fun games as survivor have been against a killer that has incapacitated the other survivors and left me to think of a plan to evade the killer and rescue them all (or I'm one of the slugged survivors and someone else has to do it). It's a question of "More choices and planning" or "Just be brainless and sit longer on actions", at least to me.
Here's a video of me as killer from the survivor's perspective (yes, I'm the chainsaw crazy Bubba with really high sensitivity. It's a little embarrassing, but I think it shows some of what I'm talking about here):
https://youtu.be/-Z-J_tTqofA?t=6414. That's cool. I'm not here to tell you your opinion. I'm here just to provide arguments and reasoning (and hopefully a good cause for changing the perk because Pop Freddy is ...ugh). I would love to be convinced that Pop's okay, but nothing's persuaded me that it is so far.
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@Flyguy115 said:
if the killer is doing really well, shouldnt they be rewarded ?
bloodpoint-wise, yes. Gameplay-wise? Not unless the killer is doing well despite overcoming some sort of added restriction on his/her ability to do well (Devour Hope is a great example of that). Pop rewards the killer not for doing anything additional but for just simply playing the game. Not to mention, killers who aren't "doing really well" can still manage to add an additional generator to the time required to escape simply by "tunneling" one survivor to death and hooking one other survivor after that.
Pop's "reward" shouldn't even be thought about that way. The hooking requirement just serves as some way for the devs to justifiably (and poorly) tie the perk's effects into the game. It's "Pop is always active unless the killer hasn't hooked anyone in a while". And since any killer at higher ranks is going to get at minimum one or two hooks per match, Pop will always be of some use.
I'm going back to your "doing really well" point one last time. If a killer is against a survivor group that is tough, and the killer manages to do well, Pop will not be used to max usefulness (or maybe not even at all!). In that case, the killer gets a minor (or no reward if he only hooks everyone after all the generators are done) for doing well against tough opponents. If a killer is against a group of survivors that are less skilled, then the survivors are going to see the entire effects of Pop (2.5 more gens) when the killer goes for a 12 hook game because the survivors are easy enough to defeat. In that case, the killer (who arguably isn't doing "really well") gets a disproportionate reward in comparison with his/her skill when contrasted against the opponents' skill. In the case that both parties are evenly matched, Pop can single-handedly win games by just adding on more gens without requiring the killer to do anything extra.
The previous paragraph is the explanation to why Pop is unnecessary (salt in the wound) when killers are doing well and doesn't come into play when it is necessary against better opponents.
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@Science_Guy said:
"Old Ruin better designed than Pop", lol this has to be some elaborate joke.
Pop is fine.
And what, pray tell, was so badly designed about old Ruin that made it worse than Pop? As a survivor, I sincerely enjoyed Ruin over Pop. I missed skill checks here and there, yes, but it all felt like my own fault for A. not looking for the totem and B. missing great skill checks. All Ruin did was raise the mechanical skill ceiling for playing survivor efficiently while lowering the reward skilled players would get from hitting great skill checks. Pop, on the other hand, is a flat out increase in time I have no control over than to sit on generators and never let go of M1 until the generator's done.
And "Pop is fine" only works as a statement if you're okay with the fact that survivors can get generators done at light speed if they all decide to be incredibly efficient. Since I don't think that's okay, I don't think Pop is fine.
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Lery's and/or any of the newer maps because they tend to have bad huntress hitbox collision and look ugly as all get out with AA forcibly enabled.
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@Terro said:
Personally, I think pop is fine where it is. It's not like the killer is going to be able to use it at 100% efficiency all the time. A lot of what you wrote only talks about an absolutely optimal line up of circumstances where the killer can always go to a gen that can be popped for the most value without losing out on other opportunities. I think the only killer that can even use pop to somewhere close to that degree is Freddy but even he has to consider the cost of teleporting to a gen that might be far away from any survivors. U might have a better argument if a killer could control a match so that with optimal play they could use pop to that degree of efficiency but it's not something a killer can really control.
yes, I focus on the extremes because that's what should be remedied. Pop's not eye-gouging-ly annoying when it's only used once or twice a match.
I want A. games that don't have the extremes of Pop and B. games that give more killers security in diversity of perks.