Kilmeran
Kilmeran
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@Sluzzy said:
They are still in a middle of a huge promotion. Considering they have sold over 5 millions copies and in the middle of a promotion, 60K is actually sad. These devs don't try to retain their players is why the player counts are dismal. Nerfing survivors constantly, nerfing killers constantly and giving them cooldowns. Making for more and more boring gameplay.
BTW, the change is only huge for hillbilly mains, that have played him since 2016. Everyone else is unaffected, except you'll have one less killer at high ranks....boring.
You are correct. They seem to be all about the initial MSRP burst of getting new people to buy the base game and maybe a couple DLCs or cosmetics, but do very, very little to actually retain those players. How many Double BP events, special events, free weekends, and DLC releases have we looked at on Steamcharts where the count goes up, but then within a month of the event or DLC release passing, it's right back to where it was before on player count?
They love to tout how many copies sold. But then when you look at their player numbers, the retention is abysmal. I think two main saving graces of DbD are that (1) it has no competition in the asymmetrical genre, and (2) BHVR is not publicly traded so don't have to answer to shareholders as to why they can't retain players.
(Or how in the living hell Deathgarden failed twice and how much total investment that botch ate.)
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Not sure exactly what I should be protesting, but I stopped buying DLCs starting with Stranger Things. Until BHVR stops talking about fixing the busted matchmaker and puts something live that puts action where their mouths are running, I won't give them another dime for a Rift, DLC, or cosmetic. And haven't since Ghostface.
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@BaldursGate2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1411981#Comment_1411981
Really? OW devs decision to put in role lock, because the top 1% of players abused GOATS in the meta and played nothing else, where the majority is in gold / plat / dia was the dumbest thing ever. Because of that, the queue time for DPS players skyrocket, esp. in master+ tiers and i bet, many ppl left the game for something else.
I forgot that asian looking streamer guy, that said, his stream died because he had to que for 30 mins or longer for a single game.
Well, ladder in OW has been a clown fiesta for several years now. Both before and after RoleQ. Hell, they just half-stepped backtracked and Open Queue Competitive is now also back in the game permanently right next to RoleQ Competitive in the Competitive Game menu. I stopped playing or worrying about ladder in OW back in 2018.
RoleQ did nothing except help the OWL since their DPS players were getting benched week after week, month after month, because of GOATS in the OWL. Hell, even the latest Genji buffs . . . they make him flashier to watch now in OWL, but do nothing but frustrate the actual player base.
You know what, you have a point. Kaplan and Goodman can blow me. But that still doesn't change my lack of confidence in BHVR, though. Now, if BHVR actually pulls off their prophesied Hidden MMR system, and it is at least half-way decent? That will change my perspective. But I lost complete faith in them when the current Matchmaker fiasco has been allowed to fester since September 2019 when it happened right as Stranger Things released and is still effing busted almost a year later.
Nowadays in Overwatch, I just do Quick Play Classic or Mystery Heroes with the friend & family team. Like with DbD, I just can't take either game seriously enough to worry about rank and "ma skillz" anymore. Both try to be serious competitive games from the developers, yet both are actually nothing more than casual PvP games.
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Perhaps PvP games are not for you. Even in a game like Overwatch with an MMR system for its Quick Play, I will still get some matches with Masters and Grandmasters on the other team. Not constantly, but it happens. If you can't beat them because the skill gap is just too wide, you take the loss and move on to the next match.
If you can't handle that, then no multiplayer PvP game will be for you for long.
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Eh. I had put down Overwatch for DbD. That was a mistake, and that's putting it mildly. Suddenly, the decisions that Kaplan and Goodman were making in Overwatch didn't look nearly as bad.
Now I only play DbD on the occasions when my friend & family group aren't playing Overwatch, and when I don't feel like reading or watching a movie. This game is moving further and further down my list of preferred activities. Maybe Hidden MMR and cross-play will change that this year, but I have little to no confidence in BHVR.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1406259#Comment_1406259
That's weird, because I've seen online people saying that you can under a certain playtime. Good correction to make though, I don't want to put out misinformation.
Read my post above yours. You can refund a DbD DLC on Steam. I have done it three times now.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1406248#Comment_1406248
U cant even refund DLCs, only the base game (at least that's the case on steam)
Not true at all. Last week I bought the Stranger Things and Silent Hill DLCs, played less than two hours with each (it tells you in the support section when you ask for a Refund), and returned both DLCs for a full refund. And that was on Steam.
When Ghostface came out, I also refunded him last year. Didn't care for how his power played.
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@Fres0c0 said:
To clear anyone saying there are no signs of cross progression. The devs said they are interested in it and I can see it become a feature when the add crossplay which they did all say when discussing what this year of dbd will look like.
Not quite. What the Devs said is that cross-play is happening by the end of this year. However, cross-progression is not happening with it, or even soon after it. While they admitted they would like to do it, there are still a lot of talks and details that need to happen with Microsoft, Valve, Sony, and Nintendo first. And there is no clear date on when, or even if, cross-progression would become a reality.
So, worrying about linking accounts and any sort of cross-progression right now is a waste of time. Only cross-play is coming, and it will have a friends list merged between the platforms. But that's it. For the foreseeable future, every platform and platform account will still be separate as far as progression, DLCs, and cosmetics.
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@7snowboards said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1395183#Comment_1395183
They need to fix the matchmaking system and ranking system ASAP
This crap has been going on since right before the Stranger Things DLC released, because the MM was just as effed up during that free weekend for its release, too. And I left soon afterward because I grew sick of it. Here we are in summer 2020, and it's still the same.
ASAP and BHVR do not exist in the same space-time continuum. Hell, I'm waiting to see if the new Hidden MMR matchmaker releases this summer as alluded to in the Anniversary Stream. It's definitely an: I'll believe it when I see it, situation.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394968#Comment_1394968
Remember when F13: The Game, Last Year: The Nightmare, Res:e Resistence, Hide or Die, and Predator: Hunting Grounds were meant to decimate this game?
Meh. Every game is always dying according to the internet. WoW has been dying for 14 of its 15 years now according to people. Hell, Overwatch is dying if you believe the internet, and yet I never wait more than 2 minutes for a match unless I am playing DPS in Ranked mode.
And that 2 minutes is when playing with my 5 or 6 stack team of family-friends. Solo, I never wait more than 30 seconds or so.
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I haven't really been following the earning rules of this event because, well to be honest, I typically don't care about cosmetics in Dead by Daylight. The only games I go for cosmetics in are Overwatch or transmogs in WoW.
Anyway, a Killer just has to finish a trial after finding a crown, but survivors must escape? Bloody hell if that isn't a new level of lopsided from BHVR.
Well, guess when I play Killer during this thing, I'm going to be letting a lot of survivors escape, then.
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I tried to play survivor today. First 10 minutes, got left on hook in two matches to die on first hook. And this was after I completed a gen one match, first, and two the next match, and tried to run the killer. So, it isn't like I was an immersive player doing nothing for the team.
Yep. Okay then. Logged out, fired up Overwatch. At least over there, 8 games out of 10, my teammates aren't complete vegetables.
I actually believe it might be time to uninstall this #########-show again.
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Positivity for what? This ######### being busted like this since 2019, which is what finally caused me to stop playing?
Still waiting for their prophesied Hidden MMR fix.
And communicate what to the devs? That their ######### is still broken and has been since 2019? If they don't know it by now, they need to find new jobs. Like maybe at Walmart.
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Otzdorva is the only one I can stand watching. I haven't lasted long with any of the others, sadly.
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While I'm not mad or anything about it being Silent Hill, I'm also not excited. So, I guess one could say not "happy?"
Either way, I recognize that others are excited and love the upcoming Silent Hill theme. And there's nothing wrong with that. For me, though, it just means money saved since I won't purchase the DLC. I wasn't overly excited about Stranger Things, Oni, or Deathslinger, either, and didn't buy. Last DLC I bought was Ghostface, and that wasn't until he was on a sale since back then I collected them all but have never been a Ghostface fan.
I dropped the "gotta get 'em all" mentality when Stranger Things came out since I was never a huge fan of the show.
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@Deadman316 said:
Matchmaking is a major issue. But here's why, I'm a green rank survivor and just played against a prestiged Huntress with learned perks and rare add-ons, she was doing really good too and ended up with a 2k. Her killer rank was 17. Stuff like that is why matchmaking is messed up, deranking killers are messing it up for the other killers.
And the thing is, even a Hidden MMR is easy to manipulate. Want consistently easier matches? It isn't hard to go into a match and play badly for multiple matches in a row until the MMR drops. Hidden or not, you'll know when it drops based on match quality.
Hell, it's done in any game with a Hidden MMR, from Overwatch Quick Play or Paladins to HoTS or LoL and beyond.
I'm waiting to see how this all shakes out, but my concern is that it's either going to be a placebo effect, or it's going to make a lot of people unhappy like SBMM (Skill Based Matchmaking) in Apex Legends did. I also want to wait and see how it plays out for Killer against SWF, since this isn't like averaging MMR between two equal-member teams.
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Right now the Rights have been split between the Wes Craven Estate and New Line Cinema, with New Line Cinema maintaining ownership for foreign and the Estate for domestic. So, it complicates matters now for Freddy being added to things like Switch or Mobile, since DbD is available both in the U.S. and other countries. Hell, even BHVR is in Canada.
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@I_Teabag_Gate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1319752#Comment_1319752
A significant amount more people follow football than any other sport. And Messi is the biggest name among them.
I'd expect even people who aren't fans to know about him. He's a bigger name than Trump.
Well, it appears that it was an unrealistic expectation, then. Neither me nor Huff knew him. And I asked some of my friends just out of curiosity, and: nope. Never heard of him.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1319600#Comment_1319600
I mean it really depends what exactly that early game change is going to be.
If the devs just make it so all gens are blocked for a minute (for instance) it will not have much of an impact (unless you're a Hag or Trapper main who can use that minute to prepare the map) because survivors will just wait it out (especially teams with communication).
If the survivors have to find randomly placed tools that allow them to repair a gen however (for example) games will look a lot different. Most survivors would probably play more immersed at the start of the match and killers would be a lot more scary early game as every chase before collecting the tools would be a major disadvantage for the survivors.
I'm really excited for all the upcoming changes. I wonder what matches will look like in the future.
I would say I am "curious" about the upcoming changes. Any potential "excitement" is going to entirely depend on the nature of those changes.
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@I_Teabag_Gate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1316768#Comment_1316768
We'll end the whole conversation about survivors being a team. At this point it's going nowhere, we've both said what we'll say.
But how the hell do you not know Messi? He's like the biggest sports star in the world. Probably the best soccer player of all time.
Because not everyone in the world follows soccer. Hell, I don't give one care about soccer, don't follow it, and don't know a single team or player for it. I follow American Football, and get my news directly from the NFL website, so wouldn't even stumble on soccer related reporting.
Nothing against soccer or its fans, just not for me. So, don't assume everyone would know about that player, just like I don't assume everyone in the U.S. follows the NFL.
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@KingFrost said:
Timeline: By the end of the year. So I'd look for it around September or December.
I imagine things will be a mess at first as far as balance between consoles/pc goes. But they'll probably try optimizing consoles a bit more in that time to help close the gaps.
Most exciting thing for me is getting to play with my friends on XBOX One. I don't own an XBOX, and I have no interest in buying one. IF they allow cross-progression, and you don't have to rebuy the characters, I might even get the game on PS4 so I can have better graphics and Freddy. Though we'll see if you have to buy characters on each platform to be able to use them or not. (That'd probably discourage me from getting the PS4 Version ATM)
They stated that they want to do cross-progression, but it will not be happening by the time cross-play launches later this year. There are still a lot of talks and agreements to be made between them and Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.
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I haven't had that happen in a while. Pretty much every match I have now as survivor is three or four of us all spawning in right next to each other and a generator, without an Offering being used to make us spawn together.
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@xTalon32 said:
Yeah I'm just not sure how well a MMR system is going to work for this game.
Neither am I, to be honest.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I admit his reveal can feel hit or miss. Against GF I have a hard time revealing him but playing as GF people don't seem to have any trouble revealing me. Aside from fixing his reveal mechanic he is fine and here's why.
Killer instinct is part of the power and should not be removed. If you reveal GF you also reveal yourself to the killer. If not for this there would be zero negatives to revealing GF. If you see him you have a choice of "do I reveal him, negate his power and risk him coming after me?" or "Let him sneak up on someone and mark their ass. So long as it aint me"
His power already takes a long time to recharge without add ons. It only makes it worse that without his power he is literally a M1 killer. It doesn't need a longer recharge time.
As for marking people for a longer duration. The duration is fine provided your using it properly. Most people will see they are marked and haul ass. The good ones can loop you for that duration. When I play as GF I use his power to sneak up on someone for a grab or a hit before the chase actually begins. I only mark people if 1 or more are near each other. Say going for a hook rescue. Even then i'll usually 99% mark them and go after one. Later in the match when I run into the person I did not hit I will pop my power and expose them instantly before they can reveal me.
GFs power lies in the fact he can hide his TR+red stain at will. Provided his power is available. Marking is really only useful for when you 99 someone and then run into them again. As someone already mentioned, spine chill does wonders when fighting against GF.
"I admit his reveal can feel hit or miss. Against GF I have a hard time revealing him but playing as GF people don't seem to have any trouble revealing me."
Welcome to my world.
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Yeah, we all know. The damned thing has been this way since 2019.
According to their Anniversary stream, the MMR system is almost ready to go and should be out in a month, maybe two. Now, whether or not the MMR system will do its job is anyone's guess. This is BHVR. But at least we won't be able to claim rank issues anymore since rank will be publicly hidden at that point.
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@NMCKE I like mobile, but they seriously need to add the ability to customize the control layout. The way they have some of it set-up is unintuitive.
I haven't seen that tooltip before. I wonder if it was added because a lot of the reviews complain about facecamping killers.
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It could also just simply mean that with the Pandemic and the chaos this has caused for myriad companies, game studios included, that they don't want to over-promise at this point in time, and have another potential round of Coronavirus in the Fall derail some things. Because let's face it, it's not like gamers are traditionally the most rational people.
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I'd take it as a compliment. I read as them commenting the killer, as a character, is weak, but yet you did well on them. I took it as them complimenting your playing skills.
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@I_Teabag_Gate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1314167#Comment_1314167
Survivors are definitely a team. They work together to get gens done, cleanse totems and save eachother. People will often get themselves killed to save somebody else.
When you load into a game, you accept the risk it might not go your way. If you want out, screwing over your team, you deserve a punishment.
I agree, you can't keep people in a game they don't want to be in. They'll dashboard, force close or even turn off the internet. What you can do is punish them to encourage good behavior, like not screwing your team.
The interesting thing about DbD is that it is not a strict team game. I have done three gens on my own, cleansed totems, and escaped all without doing a single heal on another survivor nor running for an unhook in some matches.
Other matches, I do heal and unhook. But it depends on the match, the situation, and whether or not it is safe for me to do so
Rest assured, I will not ever die to unhook or save someone.
When I play Overwatch, it is absolutely required to be a team. One or two bad teammates will cost you a match no matter how great you personally do. But in DbD, that same team dynamic design does not exist to that degree. It isn't absolutely required.
DbD can be a team game, and for SWF it most definitely is, but not so much in SoloQ.
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@bm33 said:
If I'm on first hook and my team isn't doing anything - no gen, not making their way towards me, nothing - I'm going to attempt escape. If they still make no move I'm going to let go, I'm not wearing away my buttons to not be saved.
If they are working gens I give them until I hit struggle to make a move. If a gen isn't completed and they still are not making a move I'm not wasting time struggling. If they finish a gen and move onto next instead of coming to get me I'm 100% not wasting anymore time in that match.
If I'm being camped I'll stay since it's not my teams fault I can't be saved. However I understand why someone would kill self on hook since they're getting no points and losing a pip anyway.
If I'm farmed off my first hook by someone not using BT and they go to do it again I'm letting go.
Sometimes I hit struggle on first hook but my button mashing doesn't work and I die before timer runs out.
Aside from the camping killer the team not doing anything to help the hooked teammate is the problem, not the teammate killing self on hook. This is why you can't add a penalty to hook suicides. Sure someone may do it because map/killer but more often it's the team isn't doing anything to help. Maybe if they made changes to someone on hook getting points like % gen repair it'd make more stick around to be saved. If being camped give them distraction points too to black pip.
Precisely. If they're at least trying to play the objectives or at least attempting to make their way toward me, game on.
But take a match I had yesterday on Dead Dawg. Killer was Huntress. Hey, no problem. Whatever killer is fine by me. But, I got downed and hooked fairly quickly. Again, no problem, I don't know the map, am just now starting to play Survivor side, I expect to have quick losses as I learn.
But, what do I see? Three Survivors crouch-hiding at different parts of the map, none of them even near a generator and two not even near the killer. I sit on the hook for a good minute, and none of them move from crouch-hiding . . . not to move toward a Gen, not to move to unhook me.
Okay. Cool. Suicide on first hook. Next game.
@Rydog I agree with you, except in the above situations. At that point, my teammates aren't even giving me the ability to properly play a match. I'm not just going to try to work on Gens while they continue hiding and not moving, and get hooked and killed quickly anyway for no BP. Better to just move on.
It would be like playing an Overwatch match where you have teammates that are just meme jumping off the map, or just emoting at the enemy without shooting back, or just running into the enemy without shooting, repeatedly, to feed the enemy Ultimate charge. They're unwinnable and unplayable matches, and I'm not wasting my time with such teammates. Next match.
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@megdonalds said:
Pretty sure there won't be crossplay between PC and consoles. They will only enable and extend crossplay between all consoles.
It was stated in the stream that PC, console, and Switch will all be cross-playing with each other.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312730#Comment_1312730
You're an outlier (but hey, so am I). I'm talking about average gamers who play for maybe a couple of hours a day, and this isn't the only game they play.
And that's the thing about the friends & family that I mentioned who said: "Nope, nope, hell no" when learning about the DbD grind.
For one, none of them play a video game every night. They play a few nights a week. Some nights they just want to watch some TV or a movie after work. Or spend time with their kids. Et cetera.
They also don't play just one game. Five of them play Overwatch. Another plays Roblox with their kids. Or they might hop on WoW Classic.
Even I play some Roblox with my 10-year-old (my other three kids are all adults now and off doing their own things, except for the eldest who is part of the OW team). I've been trying Crucible from Amazon games (don't bother). Or I might fire-up a Borderlands or Left 4 Dead game with the wife.
There was a time in my life where I would play one game title almost exclusively. That was back in my MMO days. Those days are long, long gone.
But the thing is, none of us are bashful about spending on a game, either. Don't ask me how many Robux have been purchased. I have all the DLCs through Ghostface. I didn't buy Stranger Things, Oni, or Deathslinger because I just decided to stop giving BHVR money at this point. Otherwise, I would have spent. You don't want to know how many Lootboxes some of my friends/family have purchased in OW over the past four years (none for me, I don't play the Lootbox gambling game). I saw some cosmetics in Crucible that I liked, but sadly have no faith that the game will be around with a playerbase in a month. It already dropped from 29k to a little under 3k peak in a week.
To customers like us, the DbD grind is completely off-putting. And to the players I could have brought in, who would have kept it in rotation and spent money on it, the grind was the deal breaker.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312674#Comment_1312674
The game DID succeed and grow, but I think that's down to the fact that a) it was the first game of this type with a really appropriate thematic hook (horror/slashers), and b) they were forward-thinking enough to secure a bunch of really high-profile licenses. They've been resting on those laurels for so long that they've lost sight of how much better off the game could be if it were more accessible by more people.
Behaviour is the "this is fine" dog in the burning house, except it's actually a nice house once you get used to it, and it would be pretty great if they just cleaned it up some.
To be honest, I gave-up on the grind a year ago. I only play the game as a side game anymore since the grind quickly excluded DbD from ever being a main game for me. Overwatch is my main. When I play DbD, I just play casually. Give me some bloodpoints and we'll call it a match. Unlike in Overwatch where seeing DEFEAT too many times in a row makes me second think my video game choices (and I play with a full six-stack friends/family team), DbD doesn't have that except for maybe "Entity Displeased." But since I don't give a damn about what the Entity likes or dislikes, that doesn't bother me. 🤣
I know many folks in DbD have 2k, 3k, or more hours. I recall that you have 1,700 hours or so. You guys have the stamina of a sex-god, because I seriously doubt I will ever hit 1k hours in DbD. And especially not with this grind. I mean Christ, I'm only at about 820 hours or so in Overwatch, and I've been there since launch day. But I also don't video game every night, and sometimes not for a few months at a time. I also tend to read a hell of a lot, and there are months straight where that is my late evening/night entertainment.
But anyway, at this point, I'm just killing time waiting for Overwatch-2 and the PvE stuff.
(On an unrelated note, playing Solo Survivor sucks balls, and after about three or four matches of that, I'm done with DbD for the night.)
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312543#Comment_1312543
This is the kind of new player feedback that I think the developers should seriously acknowledge and respond to (@Peanits @not_Queen et al.), because for every one of this guy, there are a lot more potential players who aren't bothering. Those 47% month-over-month peak player drops don't happen for no reason.
The problem is, they basically don't see it as an issue, or merely point to the post Level 40 bloodweb offering an additional perk as the solution. Which it isn't. There's still the massive grind for new players on top of the RNG on top of the multiple tiers for every perk. I have never seen a game constructed quite like this, where character build diversity is a core design, and yet being able to play with and experiment with builds is barricaded behind a massive grind that is further barricaded by stupid RNG.
I remember back in Paladins Beta when the cards for your character builds were similarly locked behind a grind + RNG. Know what the end result was? Even Hi-Rez of all studios admitted and recognized the asinine nature of that system and removed it (albeit, not before it bled a bunch of players that never returned). Instead, all cards are unlocked on every Champion, and you are given 15 points. You have five card slots to build with, and each card can be increased from Level 1 to Level 5 for 1 point. So, you could max one out to Level 5, and have 10 points left for the remaining four cards, or have all five cards at Level 3, and so forth.
But the point is, even new players can immediately begin experimenting with builds and seeing what works for their play style right out of the gate.
The DbD system? This system is so asinine, it's really beyond words. Back in 2016 with so few characters, it probably seemed like a good design choice. Unfortunately, it clearly shows that little planning was made with that design choice in regards to character roster growth or, hell, just game growth over the subsequent years.
Did they not expect the game to succeed or grow?
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Eh. All the lore for each Tome eventually goes up on the DbD Wiki anyway. I've read them all for the previous Tomes and haven't even bothered doing challenges for any Tome unless they were very easy for the free extra BP.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1309316#Comment_1309316
RIGHT? This is intimidating as [BIG BAD F-WORD]. There's no way to even explain it in a way that seems accessible, and as soon as you start leveling up and doing the mental math in your head, you realize how nuts it is.
Yeah, I went through a little over 600k BP when showing them the web. They saw where that got me, looked at how many survivors and killers have wanted Teachable perks, considered the bloodweb RNG on top of that, and basically said: Are they effing nuts? We already work for a living.
Grinding for cosmetics and stuff, they get. Grinding on top of RNG just to get character builds to be able to play with variety is asinine.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1309203#Comment_1309203
It feels to me like it's something they just want to pointedly ignore and wish we'd shut up about, because they won't address it. It is their game and therefore their prerogative, but I see so much potential in terms of the game being friendlier and more accessible to new players, and they just never want to talk about this stuff.
So, it's ironic that I participated in this thread earlier today. My 20-year-old daughter and her BF stopped by this evening and were talking about the Silent Hill DLC since they both love that game series.
They asked me about DbD.
I fired-up Steam, logged in, and showed them the perks, bloodweb, teachables, et cetera. I had many bloodpoints banked, so started doing some bloodwebs and explaining all the details: such as how teachables work, the RNG involved for getting perks in the web, and so forth.
They decided to no longer worry about DbD. I asked them if they wanted to see some game play, but after learning about the grind-system, they didn't care to see more. 😂
(My 26-year-old son, also a Silent Hill fan, had the exact, same reaction yesterday when I explained the DbD grind to him. Not. A. Chance. In. Hell. Back around the time Stranger Things came out my 32-year-old baby sister did a free weekend. Liked the game play, realized the grind, never bought the game.)
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OP, in the Anniversary Dev update they said that the Hidden MMR system is almost done. They've been testing it via simulation for months now (meaning, it has been gathering data from us but has not been used for actual matchmaking) and just need to polish up a few, final details before sending it live.
Ranks will then not be used for matchmaking, but you also will never again see anyone's rank except your own. At that point, rank just becomes a small, personal goal you can set for yourself.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308327#Comment_1308327
You're defending it but expressing a really skewed perspective without realizing it. You say you "only" have 1,200 hours in-game, but that is a LOT of time for any reasonable person to dedicate to one game (not judging -- I have 1,700 hours myself!). The grind IS bad, and it isn't friendly at all to new players. You even point out that the killer grind is crazy "for obvious reasons," but there are no obvious reasons, it's just that way because it's that way. It doesn't have to be, it's just what they decided to do.
I think any game like this needs SOME sort of grind. Last Year: The Nightmare was dead on arrival because it had no player progression system or customization of any sort, and it felt very thin because of that. But DBD exists at the opposite extreme of the spectrum, and it's not healthy for developing any kind of sticky casual audience.
I've played Overwatch for four years now, and only have slightly over 800 hours in that game and am near Account Level 1,000.
Anyone expecting normal people to devote 1200 or more hours to a game just for a grind are asinine.
Nowhere near those total hours into DbD (and Steam time also counts all the times I sat in lobby simulator as "play time") and I'm already done worrying about this ######### grind anymore. It's a core reason I went back to playing more of games like Overwatch or Paladins.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308338#Comment_1308338
I have had the same experience with friends. It is, without hyperbole, the single most oppressive grind I have ever seen in a video game.
It really is, and really doesn't make sense this far into the game's lifespan. But it is what it is, and BHVR isn't about to risk pissing off their veteran players that spend the $$$ on cosmetics and Rifts and crap.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308247#Comment_1308247
It's an easier pill to swallow once it's in the rearview mirror. But yes -- we should always try to remember what the new player experience is like.
Even if you, say, watch PainReliever's recent survivor perk tier list video, and you go "oh, I'll make a list and go get these really good ones," it involves leveling:
- Meg to 40 for Sprint Burst and Adrenaline
- Feng to 35 for Lithe
- Jake to 30 for Iron Will
- David to 35 for Dead Hard
- Bill to 40 for Borrowed Time and Unbreakable
- Dwight to 30 for Bond
- Nea to 30 for Balanced Landing
- Nancy to 40 for Inner Strength
- Claudette to 35 for Empathy and Botany Knowledge
- Adam to 35 for Deliverance
- Laurie to 40 for Decisive Strike
- Kate to 30 for Dance with Me
And that's realistically kind of a lot to bite off straight away, but it immediately lays bare the enormity of the grind, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of new players get scared off right then and there. But even if you want to make a single reasonable build -- say Bond from Dwight (30), Lithe from Feng (35), and then Spine Chill and Kindred, it's still a lot of wind-up time before you can even get a sense of what a "real" character plays like.
Then there's the matter of actually getting your perks on a single character. And the situation is even worse for killers, since they're all very different.
I posted this in a similar thread today, but since it applies here, I'll just repeat it:
I've had several friends/family people try DbD on free weekends. And they enjoyed the game play, were ready to buy, then realized the grind involved.
They walked away and did not buy. They don't mind grinds. Hell, they've played a lot of MMOs over the decades. But they looked at the DbD grind and basically said: No thanks.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
The grind pretty gross, especially for new players. I've had a lot of friends quit this game within an hour or two once they realized the amount they would have to grind to get baseline decent perks on ONE survivor.
Same. I've had several friends/family people try DbD on free weekends. And they enjoyed the game play, were ready to buy, then realized the grind involved.
They walked away and did not buy. They don't mind grinds. Hell, they've played a lot of MMOs over the decades. But they looked at the DbD grind and basically said: No thanks.
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Well, to be fair, three of my friends/family that heard about the Silent Hill chapter today already stated that they might actually purchase DbD when that DLC lands.
Before this chapter, they weren't interested. But I get that. It was the Halloween chapter that finally caused me to buy DbD, though I found out about it long after its release.
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@not_Queen said:
Thanks! I don't think that a lot of people realize how complex it was to make it happen from home.
It's so great to see how much the game & the community grew over the span of a few years!
The overwhelming amount of love this community shows for the game is always amazing to witness.
Thanks for being a positive voice in our Community <3
@not_Queen Hey, I'll criticize where I feel it's due, but I'll also give props. I think the Anniversary Stream announcements were great. Now, while I'm not a particular fan of Silent Hill (don't dislike it, just never got into it), even I will admit the Killer looks extremely fun to play. Well done.
Cross-play was another announcement that has me excited.
I imagine, though, that the Hidden MMR system will come after cross-play, since it would make sense to have all the platform players in a single pool for such a system, first?
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Don't they go through Amazon for their dedicated servers? I ask because Amazon just released their own game, Crucible, on Steam, which I would assume also uses their own servers, and they are terrible.
If DbD goes through Amazon, and Amazon's own hero shooter PvP has crappy servers, I fear there is no fixing them.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1287608#Comment_1287608
That's exactly what this aims to solve: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124795
Yeah, that post is about to hit 5 months old. Any chance on a current update on progress? Is this new system expected to even go live before the end of the year?
Matchmaking is an abysmal mess, and I won't even recommend this game to people right now until it is fixed. It simply isn't fun.
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1286633#Comment_1286633
So I guess when they announced that the Jason x dlc would drop after the lawsuit stuff was over was bs then? The game still has a huge fanbase. They could easily add new content when all the smoke settles if they choose to. Illfonic went to predator because they wanted to make $, not just do bug patches and sit on there hands most the day looking at all the great content they created and couldn't release it. So, your telling me there gonna just trash all that hard work,time, and $ that went into it? I see them possibly re-releasing it for the next gen consoles, but that's only if the legal ######### gets sorted. This game is a guaranteed cash cow. Why would they just abandon it?? 😂
Because Randy made it clear to the fans that the code is so messed up that Black Tower can't do much of anything with it, and Illfonic, the original coders, are no longer interested.
Randy made clear several times in 2019 that Uber Jason, the Grendel Map, none of it is coming at any point. The game is dead as far as any new content goes. Does it suck? Yes. But that's where Gun Media stands. They've lost several years on the license due to the lawsuit, and when it ends in two to three years, stated they are not renewing it.
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@Tiersis said:
I made a similar post earlier, and had this shared.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124795/status-update-matchmaking-changes#latest
Passing it on.
Yeah, that's from almost five months ago. Have the Devs given any new updates on that new MMR system since then?
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285776#Comment_1285776
No. Read the lawsuit in full. If that was the case, then f13 could've put out the Jason x skin and spaceship level. And Jason's hockey mask IS specific, as it's modified with extra holes and a special look. Go to neccas( one of biggest horror model makers) and check about Jason. Research your info before blabbing on about something you clearly don't understand.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285822#Comment_1285822
They didn't abandon it, they were stopped by court orders once everything was put into the so called "freeze". There not allowed to add ANYTHING to the game because of the lawsuit, so they SOLD it to another company that's huge fans of the franchise and have been making visual and bug improvements ever since. Once the lawsuit is over(time pending) they will release more content.
You are wrong on all points except the lawsuit. Gun Media has the rights to the game, they always have. Gun Media even ran the original Kickstarter. Gun Media then hired Illfonic to code the game, which Illfonic did. When the lawsuit caused a freeze on all new content for the game, Illfonic moved on and was hired by Sony to do Predator: Hunting Grounds. Once Illfonic left F13, Gun Media then hired Black Tower to handle upkeep and bug squashing.
The issue is, the coding that Illfonic did on F13 is so screwy that Black Tower already stated they can't do much more than bug fixes, and adding new content would be impossible for them.
Randy of Gun Media has told the F13 fan base multiple times now that the game is done and over except for bug fixes a few times a year. If the lawsuit ended tomorrow, there would never, ever, be new content added to F13 now. That is directly from Gun Media. No new content ever, regardless now.
Matter of fact, Gun Media has stated that they have one, maybe two, bug patches left and then that is it as far as they are concerned, too. The servers will be on for another couple of years until the license ends, but at the end of that term they plan to make it a purely offline Bots mode that no longer involves them. They're working with Black Tower on something that will allow everyone to keep their progress and unlocked Jasons and Perks for when that happens.
But per Gun Media's official word: No new content ever, regardless of how or when the lawsuit ends. License ends in a couple of years, and servers end with it. But they hope to have an offline bots mode still around after that for people to still play on their end.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1282193#Comment_1282193
This community is probably the most entitled one I've seen. Both sides always want to 4k/escape and if they dont they go cry on the fourms.
Most annoying thing is all the made up rules, no tunneling, no camping, no gen rushing, no slugging, no swf, no ds+unbreakable, no noed. i can keep going forever
This community would be so much better if everyone just accepts they've lost instead of crying about it on the fourms
That's exactly it: they are made-up rules. I'm not about to handicap my own game play for my opponents' made-up rules, either. This is a PvP game, I play to win.
The great thing is that I have after-match chat always closed, and my Steam profile is fully private, so they can't even send me toxic messages afterward.
When I play a PvP game, it's about winning. Now, that doesn't always mean a 4k for me in DbD. Sometimes, I am just trying to farm BP as fast as possible, so it might be my self-set BP goal per match. But whatever the goal, I will use whatever Dev-allowed tactics at my disposal to achieve it. Period.
As far as those made-up rules . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjB0nQT3PJQ