Kebek
Kebek
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- Kebek
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Exactly, I was really glad when devs decided to share the possible future changes with us so that we can give feedback. I hope we get to do this more often in near future.
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Both changes are healthy for the perks, people who quit over them are the kind of extremely biased players who complain whenever anything on their side gets changed at all. Not a loss I would miss honestly.
If anything, these changes will draw more players back as good changes often do. Same case as the mori changes did very recently, they had some flaws but overall they made the game better.
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Good change would be to make hatch spawn at 5 gens or 1 survivor left and not touch keys at all.
Easy, fast, effective. So it's not going happen.
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The only reason why they aren't adding it is because it MIGHT make some players tunnel slightly more often.
Why do you have generator numbers in the UI then ? Survivors knowing how many generators are left can make them tunnel gens when they see there's only 1 left. Is that ok ? Doing their objective because it's close to getting done, the nerve.
UI warnning them about it really increases the times when they tunnel gens. You should remove it so they have to remember how many gens are left to be repaired. Or does the power of double standarts prevent that from happening at least in term of UI. It's such a silly reasoning.
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I'd rather DH wasn't nerfed. It's one of the best designed chase perks there is in my opinion. As killer, I would be sad to see DH nerfs even when I don't like losing to it.
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@Sluzzy said:
Nerfed for the fifth time. It shows the devs will do anything in a desperate attempt to satisfy killers at the cost of the substance of their characters and content. Apparently they've made enough money on the Halloween chapter and a middle finger to everyone that bought it. I was already playing a lot less survivor, I will definitely no longer play that role if I am punished for doing the objective. A killer can hide and tunnel when survivor does said actions with no repercussions, killers have perks that punish survivor side for doing the objective. And the perk was not even buffed to compensate, they can still stare at you at the ground while it deactivates. Unbelievable how spineless the devs are in this game.
Then do survivors a favor and go play killer so they can get into lobbies faster or just quit. Both Ds and OoO changes are healthy and remove the most abusive uses these perks had.
Shows that you would complain for the sake of complaining even if they nerfed deja vu when you can't see a healthy change, especially after then recent mori nerfs that were as needed as these changes are.
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From the view of chasing, it was buffed. You can now use it for wallhacks in chase (as survivor benefits more from aura reading during chase then killer) and as very good defence vs aura reading overall either from killer perks or strong addons.
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"Now if i'm a confident looper or an aggressive survivor why would I risk losing DS in those 60 seconds by doing an objective when I can get better value out of it by abusing it?"
Abusing it how ?
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It has the same wording so no.
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That's no longer an issue (as least for me who despised it before) as it doesn't lose you as much pressure as it did before. Before, survivor would just hop in a locker near gen and you'd have to babysit the locker or eat the stun to prevent them from working on it.
With the new DS, they can sit there as much as they want because even when left alone, they can't do anything so they aren't a threat anymore. If you really need to kill that survivor, you can eat the stun but they can't progress the game so leaving them isn't as punishing as before.
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It's clever to leave the hook area after beiing unhooked. Staying there and actually also healing it very risky and even then you get a head start on the killer so you can still run away and hide or loop him.
If you're worried about losing DS like that, just instantly run away after unhooking and heal someplace safe.
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Yes.
Eventually it still might still need some changes but right now these are really good for the perk.
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It works during chase now, it literally now gives you periodical wallhacks every 30s and warns you whenever killer uses aura reading on you through perks or strong addons. I might say that from the "normal gameplay " viewpoint it was actually buffed.
Yes you can't abuse it in SWF anymore (thank god) but from the point of pro-looper view using it for jukes and info it's better then before.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916969#Comment_1916969
" for something that needs to have natural discouragement to lessen the tunneling issue without removing killer's options of gameplay."
Yeah, and this is the big problem - tunneling someone out of the game ASAP is still too good for the Killer. You see it quite often - Killer tunnels one person, they get picked up, no DS. There is nothing what prevents the Killer to do the same thing againg - Boom, 3v1, 5 Gens. Thank you, game is over.
And yes, I 100% get tunneled if the Killer is going right after me after the Unhook, even ignoring other injured Survivors next to him, even if he does need 60 seconds to get me. That is tunneling.
It's only good then you tunnel the weak link out of the game. Whenever killer for whatever reason decides to tunnel a really good looper, he loses and often even doesn't manage to catch the looper in the end.
Killer has the option to go after whoever he wants, for whatever reason. Yes it sucks to get tunneled but it's your job as a survivor to get away, your ability to loop the killer is the main defence and punishment for his decision to hard tunnel you. It's 4v1 so you depend a lot on your teammates to help you with that, taking hits for you, doing gens fast, etc.
Bad ranking system results in easier targets for killer resluting in more tunneling as it really plays off vs mediocre teams. But when met with 4 optimal survivors, it guarantees a loss far more then victory.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916812#Comment_1916812
They could have paused the timer for the Survivor while running or while being slugged. This makes it not possible for the Killer to tunnel that one Survivor, UNLESS this Survivor progresses the game. (Obviously it would need to be deactivated in Endgame, because otherwise it would be a 100% escape)
I am quite biased here because I am one of those Survivors who uses DS without running straight at the Killer or repairing a Gen in their face. In fact, I am always glad if I dont need to use it, because this means, I did not get tunneled (because from the way I play, whenever I get to use my DS, I actually got tunneled)
You need to understand that that perk shouldn't be a single solution to tunneling, it would make it mandatory for something that needs to have natural discouragement to lessen the tunneling issue without removing killer's options of gameplay.
Once you stall enough time, you aren't beiing tunneled as hard tunneling is removing someone from the match really early, not giving them almost any time to play. Survivors will never have a way to completely stop the killer from focusing on single one of them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916737#Comment_1916737
Yeah,but not every player using DS is jumping on a Gen in the Killers face. What I want is an Anti-Tunnel Perk which is a big middlefinger to the Killer, when he goes after me after I got unhooked.
And my DS is gone when I get slugged (and I dont have Unbreakable) or when the Killer takes too long chasing me. This is nice, I waste their time, but in the end, I am still dead because I got tunneled.
It helps you get away as much as it did before, the anti-tunneling potencial wasn't touched at all.
You'll never be able to 100% stop killers from tunneling with just a perk, that's impossible. It gives you a chance to get away when caught too early and has extremely strong synergy with other perks. Perk synergy needs to be a consideration as one perk shouldn't be foolproof and give you everything by itself.
I'm not againt making it's anti-tunnelnig abilities stronger but it should be something that helps you get away, not waste killer's time. So more along the lines of removing grunts of pain, blood, scratch marks after activating DS. This is still a very good change for the perk.
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I really need to go watch the stream. I miss it once and it must be one with really good news.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Thing is, they want to make it more anti-tunnel, but it does not work anymore when I get slugged (aka tunneled) unless I equip Unbreakable AND if the Killer needs 60 seconds to catch me again.
I am totally fine with the restrictions they mentioned, they make sense. But this only addresses one side, making it anti-tunnel from the restrictions, without making the effect anti-tunnel.
It was still too strong in the current state. If it proves too weak ( I don't think it will) they can buff it again later.
Let's see how this work out and give feedback if more changes are required. This perk is not easy to balance properly as it seems.
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Oh my God ! That looks like a positive progress in perk design. And it's not even two years since the last DS change yet.
Must be fake. ( /s )
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@Toybasher said:
The total counter hook widget for killer is also staying. Devs have confirmed on the stream it was to prevent tunneling.
How the hell does this correlate to tunneling in any way. Do they seriously think that people who hard tunnel do so because they don't have a hook widget to tell them otherwise.
I need to go watch the stream so that I can hear it direcly as that sounds extemely oblivious of them. Not that it would be a suprise lately.
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Yeah that would never work as it's very unfair towards the killer's ability to make free decisions. Imagine if finishing a gen teleported you to the basement. Would be equally punishing way to stop rushing gens.
You can't stop people from camping as with any "fix" people will find out workarounds to continue misusing camping to be toxic while you punish people who use camping strategically and push them away from the game.
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Nurse is the most fun killer to go against for me, I wish there were more of them at red ranks. She ignores normal survivor defence trough pallets and creates new ones trough jukes and mindgames of LOS, thanks to slow mm speed and power usage dependancy.
Nerfing her base power further which already was overnerfed would kill her off as nobody would play such a hard killer to use without making it worth the effort to learn her.
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Luckily I got this one as a trade off for survivor's life when nurse still had old bonus blinks addons. I was trying to do it normally but I don't enjoy nurse's gameplay much so after a few games of failure, I resorted to parley with survivors. Their life for my achievement.
Getting the "Where did they go!?" achievement was much harder as I did it in solo without any SWF with A LOT of luck.
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1. especially in the past in North America, someone who is good at shooting…
Imagine that insted of gun there is death.
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Guaranteed 2k vs mediocre survivors and black/depip IF he manages to catch first survivor before first 2 gens pop. Don't go down early and do gens before friends and you've completely obliterated him.
Unfortunately, even if all 3 survivors directly see him facecamping, they'll just crouch behind nearest tree waiting for him to leave. Then they all die and complain when they should have been doing gens.
I admit, it's very frustrating to play againt but any killer can easily hard tunnel 1 person out of the game IF they are willing to completely trow the match for that 1 kill. Then NOED delivers for another person so that's a perk issue. Can't stop people who are want to remove someone fast, you can only outloop them since there isn't any way to fix this kind of tunneling.
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The most often used argument is that your skill vs any good slinger doesn't matter which couldn't be further from truth. It's the same as saying that your skill doesn't matter vs good nurse which is equally foolish to say. They both drastically change gameplay fom reaction based looping to prediction based dodging which is shifted in killer's favor when they are really good at playing these characters.
Properly blocking LOS, making correct predictions on when the killer uses his power, smart pathing etc all that is very different from your general midless M1 looping so people aren't used to it in other words, they are bad at it so they don't like it & complain about it. With nurse to lesser extent as nurse bypasses survivor defences are more then slinger so she is also harder to play and less often seen thus less complained about.
Chasing a really good survivor, who knows how slinger works and is properly adjusted to him, can take ages to catch, even to amazing slinger, compared to someone who just runs straight, not thinking about single juke or LOS blocker at all.
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My teammates.
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Don't forget people who respond to such pointless discussions like this one when they could just ignore them.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1910672#Comment_1910672
That's not based off the intro. It's based off the videos and info dumps you get during the good end.
Ahh yes, my mistake, it was a while. Anyway if I had anything to say to it, the poisoning was a mistake (Chara and Asriel both mistook buttercups in the recipe for buttercup flowers insted of cups of butter), they never wanted to poison their dad.
And the idea that Chara wanted to wipe out the humanity wasn't even ever stated nor hinted if I remember correctly. Chara actually just wanted to break the barrier and let monster be free. He wanted Asriel to defend himself when attacked by the humans, a natural thing to do when you're beiing murdered.
A memory of this segment is more shallow I admit, I'm sure there was more behind it overall but I won't go re-read all of Undertales lore for the sake of this discussion.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1910647#Comment_1910647
That's not what happened in the game. Chara even in the good run is evil. They try to poison the king demon for fun. They would've wiped out humanity if the monster (forgot his name) didn't stop him and then died with him.
I won't go deep into this since it would take me literally hours until I could properly rewrite all of the lore and it's interpretations. What I wrote is what happened in the game from what I remember.
The backstory of Chara that you pointed out is far more complex then the little you wrote based off the intro cutsecene if I remember correctly. But as most of the Undertale playerbase missed a lot about Chara I'm not suprised with objections to my statement.
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And you automatically lose if you happen to meet 4 decent loopers or just make a mistake or two during chase and lose all pressure.
Good thing that there are so many potatoes so even killers like Legion can do well as long as survivors fail at looping M1 killers.
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@Exerlin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1910570#Comment_1910570
This is Chara we're talking about, not Frisk. Chara is absolutely not a pacifist
Tbh it's been a while since I had my last dose of Undertale lore but from what I remember, Chara wasn't a bad person originally. They grew evil from watching and living trough player's actions during genocide run twisting their personality making them as evil of a person as the player was in that run.
In the pacifist run, the memories that help you win come from Chara, meaning that in that run they give you the final push that helps you win as your good actions druing the pacifist run help them to grow into a good person as well.
I might be reaching with that (as I said it was a while) but I just wanted to point out that many people got the bad impression of who Chara really was in Undertale, they changed with players choices as they were witnessing everything the player did.
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So in other words getting passive rewards for beiing hit by the killer ?
No, certainly not.
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Self care is already perfecly balanced and often enough used in meta builds. Right now you can't just mindlessly use it whenever and get rewarded with extremely fast heals. You need to think when it's worth to use SC insted of holding M1 like a sheep whenever injured.
No buff needed to already very strong perk that requires thinking to be used properly.
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@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906834#Comment_1906834
How would you use the pallet in ormond which is literally in between two mini tables? Or a better example would be in the ptb version of crotus prenn there was a pallet between a single tree and a long brick wall.
You mean the possibly single one weakest pallet in the game you just mentioned ? I certainly wouldn't use it when injured or vs M1 instadowning killer that's for sure.
And asking how would I use a pallet to juke X killer is pretty silly. That depends on the match, the killer, the player, etc. It's a pallet, make killer second guess themselfs and with pinpoint reactions get a stun and make distance. I can't really pull out a foolproof juke out of my sleeve you know.
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Every pallet is useful no matter how unsafe it is. You can always get a stun or use it to prevent the killer's power, possibly even mindgame it in some way, depending on FOV.
Ofc, if you use them while injured, that's just silly and anyone doing so should be ashamed of themselfs.
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As a hardcore slinger main I can confirm that happens when you shoot at survivors during vault animations and don't realise where the actual hitbox is.
The hitbox for landing hits is always in the center when vaulting so the edges even when they look like they should connect when you aim at them don't actually have a hitbox if you aim from an angle like in the clip. Although I admit, that must have been extremely close to miss.
Aiming at the direct center prevents this from happening, at least I don't remember last time I missed someone hit straight directly in the middle of them.
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What would happen with map offerings of maps that everyone likes ? They'd be really pointless.
I think current system is fine, you can force a map you want to play which between them all is rare enough on the bloodwebs to get. If by some chance you had a few bad games you can burn the hand that prevents map offerings to let RNG decide insted beiing forced to play a map.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906493#Comment_1906493
You can’t be healthy every game and she can still hear breathing and footsteps when healthy
Last time I heard, survivors start the game healthy so ofc you can. Also have you tried not walking and not breathing ?
(at this point it should be obvious I was giving him as serious answer as is his post)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906485#Comment_1906485
Did you just answer your own post?
Shh, you're disrupting his monologue.
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"She can know exactly where you are at all times if you are injured and there is no counterplay for survivors"
Have you tried beiing healthy ?
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Wish it was reworked into actual non-weaponizable anti-tunneling perk that isn't tied to obsession mechanic - Everyone is happy.
Survivors have better anti-tunneling perk and killers don't have to deal with people using it to force gens/saves/lockers etc.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905691#Comment_1905691
Very intelligent comment, seriously. Object damages me so much, really so much. They see me ALWAYS. What you just said is simply the reality of really really REALLY REALLY good survivors, not even competitive players. There are no perks that make me undetectable FOREVER and consistently. Maybe trail of torment, but even then survivors return to gens, and as hag the first trapped gen won't get repaired any soon. Also Object works in a way that even if I am undetectable they know in which direction I am, always, from 72 meters. It's like a reverse spine chill. Faking traps is bad, more time wasted for nothing.
Tell that to devs who still probably think OoO is fine, not to me. I gave my best advice as a not hag main, Michi is one of them most experienced hag mains in the game so try what he said.
Otherwise you need to wait till devs realise how opressive OoO can be and change it.
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Repaying one scummy thing with another one. A cycle continues anew, you're free to do so as much as they are to last second switch. My wish is that devs do something about both so we don't have to continue cyrcle of spite.
Like lock survivor build in last 30s of the lobby so that killer can prepare and survivors can't change stuff anymore. And for slugging give survivors option to concede (self die instantly) after 2 minutes of beiing slugged.
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I think that any survivor who heals against such build deserves to lose. Just treat it like plague and do basic M1 loops for the win.
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Not really a hag main sorry but my best guess at that level of extreme exploitation of hag's weaknesses, probably the only option is to stall as much as possible until they run out of charges. I don't see what else can be done at that point, I'd try faking traps to make them go look for traps that don't exist but then your waste time which is also bad. I hope some hag main will have insight to share.
Although if that happened often, possibly adding a perk that grants undetectable into your build might also work.
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I almost never pick DS as survivor because I rarely get tunneled as I can hold my own in a chase unlike my teammates who go down all the time and really could use DS.
Also DS isn't OP in terms of 1-2 solos using it but when 4 good survivors all have it (god forbit SWF) at the same time potentially paired with unbreakables. Players like that force out gens using DS or other ways to waste killers time, weaponizing the perk. That's where it becomes extremely opressive, solos can't really reach that unless matchmaking somehow decides to put 4 good DS user into the same lobby.
Another reason is that red rank killers rarely hard tunnel someone, they got to the red ranks by piping often which requires many chases and multiple hooks on each survivor.
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Huh, seems like people want to play survivor more. I wonder why.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903895#Comment_1903895
Yh but even if you play like that you make it easier for the killer. He gets free locker grabs and you cant loop him normally. So where is the risk? He needs a little bit longer for T3, but when one survivor makes one mistake hes dead and otherwise you dont need to use t3 bc you grab them from lockers.
You can certainly beat him, but at this point normal myers is a joke for you.
You can loop him normally, I'd argue even more so because you don't need to worry about lunging as he can't do that if he wants to use his tombstone, every pallet makes you 100% immune to getting tombstoned no matter how unsafe it is. Just do normal clever looping while keeping in mind that if you get out of position, you'll die and once you don't have tools to work with, hop in the closest locker or any other interaction that locks you into animation.
The moment of suprise and survivors lack of experience against it, is that makes purple tombstone so strong. Most people don't even know it exists, that much less how to play againt it.