Kebek
Kebek
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For me both fall into the same bracket of "I'm failing at my objective so I blame the other side". I acknowledge that they exist as both, survivors can collectively ddecide to play in a way that ends the game under 5 min as can killer decide to hard tunnel someone out of the game under 3 min.
Both are optimal, legit strategies when used properly that make the other side feel miserable if they fail to match the opponents skill level.
Tunneling - Tunneled survivor is failing to outchase or outjuke the killer thus is unable to get away while also his teammates fail in assisting to save him or do gens fast enough so that killer can't tunnel him out of the game.
Gen rushing - Killer is failling to juggle survivors, not aplying enough pressure to delay the gens either through failing at chases or just due to bad power, map, etc RNG and mainly optimal gameplay from survivors.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903861#Comment_1903861
They have counterplay and the pink one is weak. But the purple has no high risk. Its just better then basekit myers. When you lose with it, then you would have lost with myers anyway.
Purple one is more deceptive but overall has same counterplay as the pink one. Lockers hard counter both, survivors just don't know how to do that properly and almost never expect it, that's why they lose to the purple one so often.
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I think many players would love some realism in DBD. Single hit from any weapon instantly kills survivors and Spirit dies the moment game begins.
Both sides win !
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Both tombstones have enough counterplay mechanics wise. Yes if you don't expect it, it can feel very unfair but you have tools to improve and counter tombstones if you know how they work. The main worry should be the purple tombstone as that one is more tricky but most of this applies to both.
Firt off, every time you face Myers, you need to expect tombstone if it's taking him more time then usual to get his first T3 and he's also not hitting anyone or very rarely. That's the first giveaway that something is wrong and you should expect tombstone soon. If he has pink tombstone you can also notice that his stance is different then normally - from the DBD wiki: "Using this Add-on will cause The Shape's left hand to be open instead of a closed fist, ready to grab." If you notice that, you 100% know he has it.
The actual counterplay that you do is mainly clever positioning and awareness. Before you hop on a gen, check how many windows, pallets and mainly lockers are nearby, you can't be tombstoned unless extremely close and not preforming any action like vaulting etc. You'll need those to put something between you and MM so that he can't tombstone you before you reach a locker as once you are inside one, he has to pick you up and can't mori you.
The only thing that should be changed about tombstones is that the purple one should also change Michael's stance as does the pink one. Other then that, they're high risk high reward addons that drastically change normal gameplay which is a good thing. Gameplay and opportunities to outplay other side are there, they're just different.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901738#Comment_1901738
Iron will was designed before spirit tbf so they probably didn’t intend the interaction and I’ve wanted the perk nerfed since I started playing.
My problem comes from the perk being oppressive on one killer and mediocre on everyone else
Well same can be said for Pop on Freddy, MYCH on Hag, etc. Some perks work extremely well with certain killer powers, that's why I'm suggesting to change said killer power so we don't have to have battle of perk changes.
They'll eventually make more perks and another sound issue might arise, this way when the power is changed, no new perk can ever break it by changeing intensity of the sounds again.
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I mean, as spirit you greatly benefit from hearing injured survivors so stridor is natural pick. Even more so when you face survivors with Iron will, not hearing them while injured is extremely detrimental to even the best of spirits out there. It's like saying to survivors to not take DS because it's training wheels perk and you shoule be able to escape hard tunneling killer without it.
Every basic chase with spirit starts with healthy survivor who doesn't moan due to injuries so once you get hit by the spirit, she gets to follow trough with easier tracking as a reward for landing the first hit.
It wouldn't be healthy design for a single perk like Iron will which is already good perk overall to hard counter spirits tracking and killer beiing powerless to do anything about it.
Personally I'd like to see phase walking slightly reworked so that the sounds of grunts of pain is permanetly set to 50% and isn't affected by perks of either side while phasing. Spirit still gets to hear injured survivors a little but neither side is forced to take a perk to shift the sound in their favor.
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Yeah, try hard camping vs good survivor team and you'll see the very grand result of 1 kill (if even assuming you aren't bubba) and 3 escapes. Hard camping without pressuring gens works on solo potatoes (as does everything) that heavily pollute even red ranks but once you face any good team be it 4 good solo players or even worse, coordinated SWF, you'll get owned if you overuse camping.
If survivors actually did gens when faced with hard camper insted of running around the hooked person hoping killer will leave which never happens, they would deter this kind of playstyle.
Unfortunately, every single time I see hard camper when I play survivor, others just run into his arms begging to be killed while I alone sit on gens hoping their ignorance will buy me enough time. If they at least knew how to properly save vs campers it wouldn't be that bad but usually they don't have any idea what to do.
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@lagosta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1900252#Comment_1900252
I thought they did have AI. Weren't the AFK's in the mobile game substituted by bots?
Also, the spawn points of illusions are inconsistent. They sometimes spawn on top of walls, objects, and places that are not connected to a path in the direction of survivors.
Yeah but unfortunately DBD mobile is seperated from DBD on other platforms, it's managed by seperate team from the main game. Even if they have AI, long asked for training mode and other cool stuff, we on the main game don't have any of that yet and it wasn't even announced if or when they'll add any of that to the main game.
It'd be great if they added things like training mode or AI that are on mobile but they don't seem to be taking any steps towards any of that or they're not telling us.
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Maybe once we actually have AI for killers and survivors then it might be possible. Right now, I don't think it's possible.
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Personally as survivor I always evade farming as much as I can. No matter if all other 3 survivors and killer are farming, I'll just push gens and leave as there's almost notning as boring as farming for me.
I wanna play normal match so unless it's an event (only time where I slightly include myself in it) I will do my best to leave such a boring game.
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I doubt that you would only vs the only like 3 meta killers every game. There aren't that many mains to the point where you would play let's say 50 games and get 50 of those killers. You'll always meet some off the weaker killers played by good players along the way who enjoy them and can do well with them even vs good survivor teams.
And if it became a problem, just play solo for a while and your MMR will drop so that you can face other fun killers besides the meta ones. If you'll only keep on winning and winning, well then you'll face players who also only win and win each game.
I don't see how could that become a problem. Some killers are already much more popular then other so in the end even now it depends on RNG which killers you get.
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In my opinion much weaker. He becomes completely dependant on basic M1 mindgames in his chases as any good survivor will memorise real pallets before they are put into the dream world. Versus normal team of potatoes, he'll still dominate as they'll fall for the fakes but vs a good team, he becomes a pushover.
Having strong mobility and some stall is as good as useless when you can't catch anyone quickly enough and just keep eating pallets till all 5 gens are done.
Snares are essential part of Freddy's success, he's as good as he is beacause he's good enough chase ability and also moblity. Remove one or the other and he becomes as good as Clown. Still, I can't deny the pallets are reallly fun to use which is a good quality for an addon.
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So you can sit on a gen and if you get downed you can't ever be picked up ? Maybe too simple of a solution, it needs more then that.
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That really depends on the person so there's no correct answer. For me it's Deathslinger as harpooning survivors is extremely satisfying.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1896337#Comment_1896337
You know people said Billy was perfectly balanced as well, look where that got him
People are saying DS is perfecly balanced and look where it is.
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Iron will is perfectly balanced, removing one out of many tells killers get to track survivors is perfectly fair and reasonable trade off for a perk slot.
You still have eyes, scratch marks, blood, sounds of walking, sound of objects you touch (grass etc), general understanding of pathing and possibly more that I forgot to mention.
Imagine wanting to nerf a skillful juking perk when so many free second chance perks exists. A very bad idea, if anything, more perks should be as useful as Iron will is.
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As I hate hag and trapper the most out of all killers I can give you my view why I hate her.
The main reason is probably the chase, as the chase vs hag (and trapper) is completely different then vs all other killers, it's not really a battle of predicting/mindgaming/reacting to each other but a question, how prepared the hag was ? If she's good and leads the chase well with good network of traps, you'll either be forced to leave into the part of the map where you believe no traps are (and thus no gens as hag is teritorial killer) or you'll enter a loop with a well placed trap which is 100% hit for a good hag and you're down.
I personally don't enjoy the chase interaction of evading traps, I enjoy strong active chase powers that are used during it, not before to reap benefits later. Flashlights don't help much either as while in a loop with trap, if you use FL to disable the trap, it takes long enough to the point where hag reaches you before the trap disappears. Outside of the chase, finding traps is very hard (with no perk to help locate them) and shouldn't be done as it wastes time which is hag's main weakness so that doesn't really work either.
Other then that, her camping is really strong so that's annoying too but not nearly as much. Occasional jumpscare from random trap is my bane as I'm extremely unlucky when it comes to evading pre-set traps, partially why I hate trapping killers as I'm a magnet for traps even when they're put in plain sight and really obvious.
Overall for me it's mainly the different style of chase. Still, even when I hate a lot facing trapping killers, I won't DC, give up or anything. I'll play out the game as best as I can and try to enjoy it. Hag is pretty well balanced killer so I wouldn't ever ask for any changes just because I don't like stepping in traps.
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Because she's hard to play properly with very different playstyle then all other killers making her much less picked overall. Not that I mind, I hate facing hags the most out of all killers (together with trapper) but I would't want her nerfed in any way at all.
I consider her well balanced to the point where she doesn't need any changes, even when I despise facing her. Even the shackles, once you know about them, they're not nearly as good as they might seem to you.
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Someone else noticed that too a few weeks back, made post about it but it was tested by several players (myself included) and it's just visual bug. No luck yet unfortunately.
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Abusive hiding to the point when game no longer progress is a bannable offence. Unfortunately, the only thing you can do right now is to start recording mid game when it starts to happen and once you have enough footage to show that survivors refuse to do their objective and just hold the game hostage, you then report them via ingame report system after the game end (you find and kill them etc or DC) and then submit a ticket at official DBD site for additional report infromation.
It's a bother but currently we don't have anything that could cut the match short and this can go on forever. Hopefully in the future we'll get some feature that helps to end matches once they get excessively long for both sides.
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Lucky break, it's supposed to get buffed in the near future but I just wish to know when and what buff. I hope that it will be on the level of Iron will so that it's finally good perk and not a meme one.
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I almost never saw them even before the nerf, same with keys, they were also rare until the mori nerf came out.
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Now I want to know how to get there.
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It takes a lot of effort to change hatch spawning rules, make hatch spawn only after 5 gens or when only 1 survivor remains. That's why they're not doing it and insted are probably creating new animations for much worse solution.
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I love how people can't stand the existence of clown with mobility. Imagine if actual Clown's rework gave Clown mobility insted of yellow bottles that do everything but that. We would have 2 Freddys to complain about and their OP hindered debuff that totally ruins looping.
Freddy is nowhere near strong enough in chase to warrant high skill ceiling for a slowdown power. He's no spirit, nurse or deathslinger etc who dominate chases when played extremely well to the point where survivor can't do much assuming they never miss (which even the best still do).
He could use some small number nerfs to see how he feels to play as/againt after them but nothing more then that. Easy to play good killers are healthy for DBD and Freddy is exacly that. Not every killer needs skill ceiling of nurse to warrant viability.
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I wouldn't risk doing that often since it touches dangerous subject of working with the killer but in that case I think it's a bit of a grey area.
The game already progressed to the point where survivors basically lost (as a team) and the killer wants to kill the other survivor so using the slugged survivor who leads killer to the other survivor to have a chance at surviving himself (not intending helping the killer from the start of the match no matter what) is the best shot at surviving for him. He's working with the killer in order to survive, not grief his teammates so I'd say devs wouldn't ban someone over attempting to survive (as long as it's not overused and done every game) as best they can in the current situation.
Over the years that all the bannable behaviours were disscussed on the forums, it differs case from case but usually as long as you're doing your best to kill/survive and don't play like that every game, you're usually save.
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Once you get good at survivor yourself, it's not that bad as you'll be able to outlive your potatoe teammates so it's a learning process. You'll 100% depend only on yourself till you hit the red ranks and once there you start to have decent chance to not get potatoe teammates that kill your more often then the killer does.
Playing solo survivor largely depents on how does the ranking system feel, if it's going pair 4 great/good or bad survivor together, no matter the rank.
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There are many reasons to camp, not wanting to loop all game is certainly one of them. Not like there's anything wrong with playing defensive if that's what makes the game fun for them, they're entitled to defend their prey as much as they want.
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I'd love to see a NOED change paired with other changes that adress second chance perks on both sides making them all more costly to use, not just pure benefits with extremely strong effects with no real effort to activate.
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Nurse, spirit, hunress, deathslinger, pyramind head. I love facing strong chase killers, doing my best to read them.
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So that we can see the horror.
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I'd be much happier if they left it as it is. It's one of the very few survivor perks that has a lot of skillful uses and requires timing. Ofc using it for distance is pretty mindless but so are basically all other survivor meta perks, even more I'd say.
It's one of the really strong meta perks that I don't mind at all.
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But all the "nerf DS" posts look so pretty next to the "nerf spirit/freddy/camping/tunneling/etc" posts. They really complement each other.
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I'll take it as a compliment.
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As few others suggested, just rework hook stages. Much better solution then unneeded punishmets.
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No that's a bad idea. Also, it's already pretty easy to rank up even with potato teammates if you just farm them off.
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It felt much better then live Game already but I can never have enough brightness in my maps.
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Hmm, it'd be more consistent but I dare say no as long as it would require at least 1 unhook as well as 2 protection hits.
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I don't think it's a direct comparison like that. You can think that giving hatch is only equal to letting yourself get killed after you open gates and are safe (which I've done a few times to really new killers who got matched into a high rank survivor lobby) but I'd say that survivors staying to make a save in the endgame when the chances to save are really low and they could just leave is in the same bucket as giving hatch away.
They basically stay to rehook several times and give killer more BP, possibly even killing all of them if they mess up too hard. It happens a lot, probably not with the same generous intent (as they still want to save their teammates and escape) as giving hatch but I consider it very nice of survivors to stay and try to help their mates insted of leaving after a fast game with little to no BP on either side.
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Well that's too bad I guess. If you can't take it that much you might consider stopping playing DBD until they "delete" spirit if ever.
I for one love facing spirit, predicting & confusing her. Ofc, there isn't consistent way to loop her otherwise she wouldn't be as good as she is. In fact, no killer should be loopable consistently, that means they're weak and survivor is in more control then killer unless the killer has some massive advantages in other aspects other then chase where he's weak.
Everyone has killer they hate but that doesn't mean that killer is badly designed. Spirit's gameplay is fine, she might get few small tweaks to add a bit more feedback to her routing during phase but nothing significant that would give off her position like it was on her PTB where she was kind of bad.
Also in standing still mindgame it's the worst idea to go back towards the spirit. Just get out of her LOS and juke according to circumstances from there once she can't possibly see you.
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You mean that "ridiculous disconnect penalty" that reduced the amount of people straight out DCing when they didn't like a map or a killer ?
I doubt your complains will be heard, it has it's problems that it needs to fix but overall it's a healthy change for DBD.
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I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to get to a "good looper" level. Basic M1 looping requires mainly map knowledge and ability to quickly react to killer's movement as M1 killer are usually at mercy of the loop's walls in terms of mindgaming. A bit of clever mindgamening and predictions added to it and you're already better then 50% of red ranks survivors. I'd dare to say that alone doesn't take that long to learn, it's more about the person learing it, if they are the kind of person who keeps cool head and thinks during chases, it won't take them that much time to get good at M1 looping.
Then the killer powers, there I can agree, it takes a while to properly learn how to effectively play againt certain killers. Still, it boils down to, thinking during chase on what the killer sees and wants to do which is alway risky to predict when the killer's power is chase oriented and good. Predicting was and always will be large part of looping and it's alway risky when versed with opponent who's really good at chases and using said powers well.
I personally have around 3k hours in DBD (since release) and about 75% of that is playing killer. Still I'm rather good at looping (most of the time), at least much better then my usual teammates at red ranks. Some killers I'm great againt, others less but overall it didn't take thousands of hours to get better. From what I remember more or less around some 300-400 hours and that's mainly beacuse I used to play very little survivor so I had big breaks in the process of getting good. Some people get better at looping faster, others it might take thousand of hours and they won't improve but I disagree that DBD is somehow really difficult to play well from survivor's side.
Mastering to utter perfection, I would agree that is hard and might even take thousands of hours to get on that level but beiing above average looper to be able to hold a chase for a while at red ranks isn't all that hard vs other red rank killers.
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Before I really hated game's downstairs since that part of the map seemed really dark to me. Now after the rework I didn't notice any part beiing too dark so I think it improved at least. Good rework, in terms of brightness for me.
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I am complaining mainly about the fact that devs couldn't wait and relese both nerfs at the same time. Since the more nerfs, the amount of keys in my matches increased by insane amount, making me enjoy (and play) DBD far less. Both changes to mories and keys are needed but they should have gone live at the same time so that the other can't be spammed before it's changes arrives.
Also the key changes don't need to be complex, there is extremely simple and good solution to keys that requires minimal effort on devs part, they just don't want to implement it either because they don't know about it or beacuse of some other illogical reason. Paladin made a perfect video on how to fix keys some time ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew0fMbJ3FCs&t=1s&ab_channel=PaladinTL:DR for the video. Change the hatch spawn conditions into thse two conditions:
1) There is only 1 survivor left in the trial.
2) All 5 generators have been repaired.
Extremely easy and effective fix for the keys, it'd make keys thousand times less annoying to face and I'd even dare say actually fair. But I bet this won't be the changes we see once devs announce theirs.
It will be something ridiculous with possibly even unneeded new animations and stuff that in the end will only very slightly nerfs keys but let them still be as abuseable as they are now. I fear how bad it shall be.
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I never see what the problem with hard slugging is, slugging at 4 survivors alive is extremely risky vs any semi-competent team of even solo survivors. The moment killer's slugs get back up, he don't get anything towards killing them so it's reliant on slugging all 4 if they want to use slugging to win.
It can build up some gen pressure but only so much when you can chase only 1 survivor at the time while the other 3 have free hands to do gens and saves with ease. It works mainly on survivors who group up too much / allow killer to snowball of the slugs.
At the same time, unbreakable and soul guard exist (not even talking about no mither for the specific group of people who refuse the possibility of getting slugged at any cost) to counter any momentum killer can get from slugging so if you hate slugging, run anti slugging perks or improve at anti slugging strategies.
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I think at that point you would be better off with BBQ/thrilling if you use find whispers T2 better in that way. Same goes for almost all the other perks, lower tiers then 3 that "might" be better then their T3 usually get rewokred to have the T3 be the best option either way.
I'd rather if devs just removed tiers to lessen the grind for newer players then keep several niche perks that are possibly better at lower tier.
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It really depends mainly on what you find fun. All of those killers are relatively close to each other, some better then others ofc but that usually doesn't make that much difference vs normal teams.
I'd say it goes like this:
Twins if you like strategical gameplay, splitting in two characters each at different parts of map while mainly relying on controling Victor, who's very fast (150% movement speed) and effective slugger.
Blight for possibly the best mobility in the game, adapting to map layout and properly bouncing off walls which can be rather tricky but when done well, very effective.
Deathslinger, if you enjoy beiing dominant force in chases and a lot of aiming while also not minding that you'll be rather slow mobility wise most of the time. Also rather tricky to play well but still very enjoyable and kind of straightforward, you care pretty much only about doing good fast chases.
Oni for one of the best snowballs in game, zooming around map and loops while you have your power beiing a power house while in it, out of it basic M1 killer with added blood orb tracking.
Clown is getting reworked but his identity stays the same. Pretty good chase killer with a little bit of aiming involved but mainly properly positioning your gas clouds to get fast hits in loops.
Legion for most basic M1 gameplay with bits of strategy involved and mainly a pretty good stall power that forces players to stay injured most of the time. Overall, not horrible but rather basic, you'll rely on your M1 all of the time as he doesn't have anything to help with normal looping.
Perk wise it goes probably like this (from best to worst) - Clown (best teachables), Blight, Legion, Twins, Oni, Deathslinger (worst teachables).
It's ofc my opinion on the matter. Hope this helps you decide.
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Tell me then, should killer be able to keep 5 gens up if he does nothing (no chases, no hits, just stands still) for first 5 minutes of the game ? Ofc not, he's not playing at all meaning he's failing utterly failing to put any pressure on the other side failling in his objective to kill survivors.
Now imagine that survivors somehow manage to all go down early when all pallets are up, when they are 4 people on 4 different places of the map, when they should be pressuring 4 different gens. Why should survivors that fail to evade / outplay the killer be given free get out of jail free card when killer did his job founding & downing all of them ? They shouldn't, at least not without investing in countering such strategy with perks, the same way killer shouldn't have strong stall that prevents survivors from winning just by default.
The problem is not in the game itself but in the players. Evading a hard sluggging killer either trough doing gens or just beiing good at picking up teammates is part of skillful gameplay. Pity that so many red ranks survivors are incredible potatoes, giving them more get out of jail free cards that they will rely on will make them even worse players while giving the good ones unneeded buffs.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
I already hated clown enough because it's so hard to win chases against him. Good to hear that I am never going to escape from Clown ever again.
Devs heard complains that clown is annoying at chases but lacks everything else so they made his chases stronger. Pretty good job so far I might say.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/218978/its-a-buff-so-it-cant-be-bad-right
I think you have it round the wrong way. As a Clown main I immediately knew this new ability was to make Clowns chase and anti loop dramatically stronger. Never once did I think it was for faster traversal.
Clown doesn’t need map mobility. He just needs fast downs and regular slugging.
Well devs literally put a lot of work to make the antidote as clunky to use in chase as possible. If it were intended for chase why not make it like 1s delay and not disable the other tonic. I don't think they wanted to make clown stronger at chasing, he's already good at that.
Every killer needs mobility, it's what helps you pressure gens & find survivors to chase. You can make clown as good at chasing as you want but it won't matter if he loses all his gens because he has to spend 3/4 of the match traversing the map.
Having fast downs with clown is possible mainly when survivors don't pre-throw pallets and swarm him otherwise he stuggle to keep up with good teams no matter how good his chase is which is still not great compared to other killers with chase oriented power.