KayTwoAyy
KayTwoAyy
About
- Username
- KayTwoAyy
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
So many Survivors start mending and looking at the ground the moment Legion leaves LOS.
Best way to play Legion, imo. Even if only because Survivors make poor assumptions about how Legion should be using their power.
-
@Eelanos said:
The community: The devs balance things by use rate rather than actual power. They clearly are dumb and don't play their own game. Also Nightlight isn't a reliable website to get use rates.
Also the community: So when is that Windows nerf happening. Look at the use rate in Nightlight. (Very angry statement like "You take away their looping crutch perk and watch how they all crumble down", taking the usage of the perk like a personal attack against their person)
Guys, you cannot change the narrative to fit your need of the moment. Are the devs terrible at their job because they only look at usage rate or do you want them to balance by usage rate? Is Nightlight a good indicator of perk usage or the user-based input makes it unreliable? We have to agree on this once and for all and stop moving the goalpost here.
Plus, remember that even removing WoO won't necesarily make you happy or make you win more. Even if it truly was a "crutch perk" and survivors "crumble" after the nerf or removal of the perk:
1) The devs will have to buff survivor somehow to keep the already low escape rate at around the same percentage.
2) Something else will take its place and you may like it less than WoO.
You have to understand that and accept that if you want a change. Do you think WoO, a perk that only gives vision, makes you feel as bad as old DH? Would you let survivors have more gen speed or heal speed if WoO were to be nerfed/removed?
Keep this in mind when you ask for balace changes. The devs can't just let you always win. The nerf of a top pick always gets followed by another top pick or a buff to the nerfed role.
Buddy, the community isn't the problem. We're not a hive mind.
The person who claims that Nightlight is unreliable data is not the same person trying to use Nightlight as basis for an argument.
-
OP, if we were playing Split the Room, it would appear you've won the game.
-
The perk allows Survivors to mindlessly achieve what would take someone months, if not years, to master.
While it might not always provide significant value, it sets a precedent that Survivors can perform at a relatively high level with minimum exertion. This creates a multitude of issues, such as ignorance towards the game's mastery curve and players lobbying for unreasonable nerfs/buffs.
Additionally, it artificially raises the skill floor for Survivors, which leads to the feeling of poor matchmaking that we see now.
If I were to nerf the perk, I'd either:
a) Deactivate it after 3 minutes, so that Survivors need to survey the map and plan their routes ahead of time
OR
b) Activate it only after a Survivor has been sacrificed, so that Survivors are not so strong in the early game
If I had to make a case for keeping WoO as is, it'd be that DBD is not quite like riding a bike. Returning to the game after months away can be challenging, but WoO can compensate for the brain fog.
Also, it's an excellent perk for streamers, as they can take more frequent and longer glances at chat without being a detriment to their teammates. In general, anything that makes the game more autopilot will have this effect, so it begs the question... "do we want our games to stop challenging us?" If yes, keep WoO as is. If no, it needs to go.
-
It's a pipedream, but I'd love for this to be the Survivor's menu music while waiting around the campfire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXkpWY5Y02QWill just have to mute in-game audio and play it myself while waiting for lobbies to fill 🙃
-
@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499348#Comment_3499348
I think that UE4 has a lot of resources to take advantage of, like the time (day, night...), the dredge uses the night, it could be even better if it was done at night on the map, I think that today, we are only seeing the simplicity and minimal resources of UE4, but I know that they can still take advantage of the engine (UE4), but even the devs did not show it...
People are still reporting performance issues on console, so unfortunately I believe we are limited on the technical side of things.
-
As someone who wasn't a fan of the horror genre prior to playing DBD, allow me to offer my opinion on horror's biggest icons (not already in the game):
- Jason
- Pennywise
- Jack Torrance
- Alien
- Chucky
- Dracula
- Frankenstein Monster
- Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde
- The Phantom of the Opera
- Cthulu/Anything with Lovecraft's name on it
From that list, Dracula is (imo) the biggest icon. ...but he is also public domain, so he wouldn't make sense for a "licensed chapter." I believe Frankenstein, DJ & MH, and the Phantom are also public domain, so not exactly "licensed."
Lovecraft is (imo) the next heaviest hitter, but his monsters are far less recognizable than his name. If BHVR was interested in that type of killer, I think the Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth would evoke a better response from consumers than any Lovecraftian being ever could.
I wouldn't rule out non-horror movies as "big licenses," either:
- Wizard of Oz (Wicked Witch)
- Nightmare Before Christmas (Oogie Boogie)
- Harry Potter (Dementors)
- The Mummy (Imhotep)
- Jurassic Park (T-Rex)
- Lord of the Rings (Nazgul)
IMO, DBD could extend it's life by 10 years with non-horror licenses, and I would hope that BHVR is exploring those options.
-
Some maps, like Eyrie of Crows, could be made much more interesting by having a day/night cycle take place during a trial.
If they went really crazy on lighting, they could have an entire Killer whose power revolved around hiding in the shadows, so the day/night cycle would become an integral part of their power ramp during a trial.
-
This is a funny thread.
I don't know who prompted you to prove your escape rate, but the underlying problem has gone right over your head.
Consensus has always been that Solo Queue is too difficult, and SWF is too easy.
Whether it is Archive Challenges, Rage Quitters, AFKs, Matchmaking, and whatever else...Solo comes with all this baggage that SWF does not need to worry about. The gap between Solo and SWF is so wide that the outcome of any given trial feels arbitrary--particularly from the Killer's POV.
-
@C3Tooth said:
I use JoAT on my main Yui.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/33D3GLPQEVWA/image.png
For other survivors, they're Specialist or Gimmick
Meg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CWGJBBFRB5SR/image.png
Jake
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TWAMLW3B8J17/image.png
Rebecca
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GUMSDBXXNPDR/image.png
Jane
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N04NNEE5ZPHM/image.png
ect
Changing character completely change the playstyle. Honestly I play Yui less nowaday because for me Specialist is more fun.
You can see that except for Meg (I use running build, possibly change Fixate to Made for this), if I get tunneled while playing other, Im completely defenseless. Im always go back to Yui/Meg if I get tunneled 2-3 times in a row.
Love that you use different Survivors for each build type!
I'm also a Yui main, and used to love running that build you have on Jake. ..right up until I ran out of sabo toolboxes haha
@LordGlint said:
I generally play a jack of all trades when I play survivor. I like running various information perks so I know what's going on around me and I can play efficiently. Bond for example is great for telling me who's around who can heal/needs heals, while also telling me if a teammate is gonna run the killer past me. WOO has been a pretty big crutch perk for me lately on letting me know what pallets are still standing late in the game. Deja vu cuts down on time needed to find gens, especially on indoor maps. Also ruins any 3 gen situations early on.
Full aura reading builds are so underrated. Do you run Empathic Connection as well, to provide teammates that crucial intel?
@Rulebreaker said:
Depends on who were playing (we like thematic builds/ builds with conditions) but generally we'd fall under your definition of specialist (Ex: Claudette is a medic, Cybil rescues ppl, yui goes fast). And yes our style would be the same as survivor or killer (assuming we understand the question right.)
Such a fun way to play! Always wished Survivors were required to use at least one of their perks, as a small way of giving them diversity in play
-
I haven't been playing, but when I read the patch notes it sounded like Sadako is now a better version of Pig. Every survivor essentially has an active trap on their head that they need to get rid of, so Sadako has built in slowdown with Survivors needing to manage their condemned throughout the trial.
Is that accurate? ...cause it made facing Sadako sound like an absolute pain.
-
I wish posts like this were insta-deleted by mods. This divisive rhetoric needs to stop.
Not to mention the fact that this post is totally ignorant to the development cycle of live-service games.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492622#Comment_3492622
I think including dc's and suicides in your stats is failing to communicate on their part.
The whole point of listing win rates is to measure skill, including those things is not measuring skill accurately. We have the understand what the entire point of asking someones win rate is.
I don't think most people talking about their escape rate are particularly concerned with skill.
I most often see escape rate being talked about as a measurement of game health and player satisfaction.
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488819#Comment_3488819
Are you sure you’re better at survivor than killer because the data says otherwise.
As I point out a lot when people present personal numbers it’s not a measure of the game but of their performance. What’s being measured here is you.
If we have i.e. 5000 players and look for correlations in outcome across games, perks, killer choice and platforms then we are measuring the game.
There is a big difference.
I don't think you fully comprehend the impact teammates have on a single player's record.
One Survivor can only do so much. Because a Survivor is dependent on their teammates to escape, escape rates for any one Survivor is a poor metric of that player's performance.
- Hall of Famer Ted Williams, widely regarded as the greatest hitter to ever live, played with the Red Sox for 19 years and only made 7 post-season appearances
- Hall of Famer and 2-time MVP, with 14 All-Star appearances, Ernie Banks played with the Cubs for 19 years and never made a post-season appearance
- 3-time MVP with 11 All-Star appearances, and projected Hall of Famer, Mike Trout has been with the Angels for 14 years and has made only one post-season appearance
- 1991 - Cal Ripken, Jr. won MVP and the Golden Glove Award. His team, the Orioles, had a losing record of 67-95
- 2003 - Alex Rodriguez won MVP and the Golden Glove Award. His team, the Ranger's, had a losing record of 71-91
There are hundreds, if not thousands, more examples I could provide.
@Uxoxe's data doesn't really say much other than having an abysmal escape rate as Survivor, and a respectable kill rate as Killer, during the games they recorded. There is context missing here, but the eye-raise is definitely warranted.
---
To answer OP, @Jacho last time I documented my games, I had a 35% escape rate (solo queue) and my teammates had a 25% escape rate. A year prior, I had documented myself with a 60% escape rate over the same number of games (20). Someone D/C'd in 40% of my games, which I believe was largely responsible for the considerably worse escape rate.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492157#Comment_3492157
sure but how often do you play a match for 30 minutes or in skull merchant case. 50 minutes? I would like to think that that playing matches past 30 minutes is rare. you also have to consider at what point should killer consider himself losing? Is there a point where killer should lose if he does not kill survivors in x time? it is certainly something you do not think about when playing DBD. This is likely because stalemate in dbd are uncommon but like every game, a stalemate can occur.
I think @LordGlint ’s point is that spawning hatch after X time just flips the script.
Instead of the Killer holding the game hostage, the Survivors get to hold the game hostage.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t solve the problem.
4 Survivors playing hide-and-go seek for 30 min, because it will spawn hatch, is no better than a Killer patrolling their 3 gen.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492169#Comment_3492169
I think the better question is what percentage of SM matches last over, say, 20 minutes.
None. Everyone D/Cs before the 2 minute mark 🤣
Aside, idk why I thought you were a UK gamer. Did not expect to see you at this hour.
Also, I’m totally not just commenting to bump this thread because I like to see the pot stirred.
”Hi Ho, Skull Merch Must Go! Hi Ho…”
-
I don't know what I expected when I opened this discussion, but this was not it...
Also, anyone else here think Eternal would've won in under 10min if they rematched?
Was pretty obvious to me that the majority of their issue was inexperience against Skull Merchant. They made some pretty strange blunders early game which made their late game unnecessarily difficult. I'd imagine they'd have learned from their mistakes in game one, and made game two look like a cake walk.
-
I'd like to see something radical...
Lore-wise, the Entity is an "emotion vampire," which feeds on the Survivors' emotions. The more hopeless a Survivor is, the less useful it is to the Entity. That said, I'd imagine the Entity is displeased with 3-genning, because it makes Survivors feel hopeless.
To restore this hope, the Entity throws Survivors a bone.
Rather than repair a generator, Survivors can (once per trial) appeal to the Entity to move the generator to a new location. In doing so, the generator loses all progress. To appeal to the Entity, you approach the generator you want to relocate and begin the Appeal action using the Secondary Action. The less progress on the generator, the longer the Appeal action takes to complete.
There would be visual queues that let the Killer know you are attempting to relocate the generator, prompting them to take decisive action before their 3-gen is gone.
The relocated generator would reappear at least X meters away from either remaining generator.
-
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491146#Comment_3491146
This is a playstyle that isn't even new. Hard 3 genning has been a thing for a very long time with the previous culprits being Doctor and Freddy.
Every killer can do the same thing, but to varying degrees and needing different kinds of build considerations. If not for the fact that Skull Merchant's power functions the way it does and the fact that from jump folks have hated her I doubt the uproar would have been as strong as it is now.
Exactly, it isn't anything new.
There are a ton of things that have been in the game for a while, that have recently become increasingly problematic. Similar to how Circle of Healing redefined the way Survivors value healing, the gen-kick meta redefined the way Killers value 3-gens. The Knight and the Skull Merchant were released into this perfect storm, and I'm predicting now that they are the catalyst for change in how Killers mentally approach a match.
As a whole, I don't think people want to be playing 60-minute DBD matches, and that is largely the deterrent from this play style becomming wildly popular. ...but I also know this community to be very stubborn. If Killers are really struggling to win games, they will turn to "3-gens, 60-minutes is all I can spare to play with you," and they will justify that behavior on account of "this is the most optimal way to play Killer, blame BHVR."
That is how I see things unfolding, anyway. I could be way off the mark, but it is still something to consider when deciding whether or not to nerf SM or address 3-genning.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491245#Comment_3491245
There's a couple flaws in reasoning here.
First, I'll go over the quickest and simplest mistake here- survivors do not need to hack a drone for you to get Haste. The Skull Merchant receives that Haste bonus whenever a survivor is tracked on her radar, which happens when they have a Claw Trap on and when they're standing in an Active Drone radius. Simple mistake, common misconception, but it does undercut this idea that SM NEEDS to place drones on generators because that requirement for them to be disarmed isn't actually there.
More generally though, I get the sense a lot of your reasoning here is based on the idea that the only viable place for Skull Merchant's drones is on top of generators, and that's faulty logic to rest on for two reasons. The first is that it's not actually true on live servers right now, but more pressingly, the second is that we're talking about her core design, not what she can currently do on live. Her core design includes stealth- if they buffed that, any Skull Merchant who wanted to use it certainly wouldn't be putting her drones on generators, she'd be putting them between generators so that she can leverage them for Undetectable and survivors would have to go out of their way to disarm them.
A similar principle applies without having to assume any changes to her balance. A lot of people seem to think that the only way you possibly even COULD use Skull Merchant's drones in chase is to place one down in a loop while you're actively in chase with that survivor already, but that's pretty obviously a bad idea on the face of it, given how long it takes for the drone to be placed, enter the Active state, and then how long it takes for something like Lock On to actually build up. The far better way of using her - right now, this isn't hypothetical - is to place the drones in key loops and between generators ahead of time, and then chase the survivors into them.
(There are flaws here, in that this playstyle is most useful when you use expensive purple addons and I personally don't think you should have to invest that much for her to have a viable chase power, but we're talking about core design rather than the hard specifics of her live balance.)
It seems like the people who think her power is fundamentally flawed and can never be balanced are incapable of viewing it as anything other than generator defence, when that's far from the only thing it's capable of doing even on live servers, let alone with some small-to-moderate number changes. Misconceptions and misunderstandings seem to lay under that take all the time, like the idea that Haste only comes from Claw Traps or that playing SM for chase would require placing drones mid-chase instead of setting them up ahead of time.
I hope it's clear that I'm not saying Skull Merchant doesn't need changes, because she does. What I'm saying is that her core design is far from a failure, and isn't so flawed that it can't be salvaged. It isn't even all that far away from healthy, in my opinion.
I think her main appeal for dropping drones on gens, rather than between them, is the Exposed status effect. It is low skill, high value, whereas placing drones for Stealth requires skill AND is reliant on other factors.
What would you think if the drones were solely used for stealth and tracking, the amount of drones she has is relative to map size, and then Survivors are exposed whenever they hack a drone?
She'd be Plague adjacent, in that Survivors effectively choose how they want to die. They can let SM build an undetectable network to traverse, or they can nullify her stealth at the cost of temporary exposure.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490716#Comment_3490716
No. Blight in fact would be worse at this tactics. Blight does not have ability, that prohibits you from working on a gen for guaranteed tens of seconds or being exposed. Blight does not have any addons, that make hitting skillchecks so damn hard. Blight has no ability to track survivors, so if he does not look behind that rock next to a gen, then survivor can start to work on a gen 1s after blight turns away.
Don't get me wrong. Blight is stronger. Thanks to his ability he can also hold 3gens quite well. But he is nowhere near as good at holding it as SM. And if he decides to kick gens instead of chase (because say survivors with 5k hrs each can consistently outsmart learning blight), then he is in much worse position.
Blight has an add-on that proccs tremendous skill checks during his rushes.
He doesn’t really need tracking if he is locking down a 3-gen, and his gen stall comes from Survivors needing to respect his speed.
By the end of the SM v. Eternal game, Eternal was hopping on gens as soon as SM left. On the same set-up, they would not have been able to do that against Blight because he’d immediately turn back and run them down.
I’m not particularly interested in making a case for Blight, though. I am fairly confident that Blight could dominate the “win by making the match take 60min” sphere—at least in pubs.
The issue at hand is whether or not this play style will catch on, and if it has enough legs to be played with at least half the Killer roster. If so, reworking SM would be wasted time as it’d be treating the symptom, not the virus.
-
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490703#Comment_3490703
"which is why it is so strange to me when people want to be apathetic and condescending to those who express their grievances about the issue."
These strats are beatable with good players but the fact that any low level players can Implement them are terrible. This should be a hard to master tactic that decent to good level killers can use to mount a comeback. But as it stand... it to easy to utilize allowing new killers to destroy low levels survivor which is horrible for retaining players. It take a unreasonable amount of time to learn how to counter these tactics and most players just give up on the game after going through it.
Totally agree with you.
It makes any attempt at improving in the game feel meaningless. Those who are just starting out see no reason to learn and develop, and those who already devoted time to mastering the game feel cheated. For the longevity of the game, there is no goal for players to work towards, so they'll just do something more mentally rewarding.
-
@jesterkind said:
It'd perhaps be useful if you elaborated on why you think her core design is flawed.
From my perspective, her core design has the potential to be one of the most interesting we've had in a long while. I can't think of another killer whose kit is as versatile and modular as the Skull Merchant's, and it'd be a damn shame to just throw all of that out because of the 3-gen problem.
To piggy-back off of this...
I'm curious if other Killers, such as Blight, can hold a 3-gen hostage as we saw with Skull Merchant v. Eternal, but don't simply because it's not the playstyle that became most popular with that Killer.
I've no reason to believe Blight couldn't do what Skull Merchant did in that match up, but better, because of his mobility. He can effectively run the same add-ons as SM, or he could run his even stronger add-ons.
While my gut reaction is to agree with OP's call for a complete SM rework, I fear that Skull Merchant is a product of a Killer playstyle meta-shift, rather than her own design. If this is the case, other Killers who can lock down a 3-gen will begin doing so, and the problem will then be universal.
-
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490273#Comment_3490273
People don’t understand how life works, they think as long as they are satisfying theirselves at whatever cost to others that everything will be ok, what they don’t get is it breeds a cancer into existence that will eventually kill the game as a whole. But ultimately behaviour is the ones who don’t understand that when you give someone tbr free will to dictate everything that happens in a game, the cancer eventually grows to the point people will move on. I honestly would have never played the game if I knew one person could instantly remove me just so they could have an easy mode. Essentially tunneling is ez mode, there’s no convincing anyone who has played this game and been hard tunneled out of a match. The developers in this game are simply not fast enough at fixing things in the game that are detrimental to itself, reality is they are too concerned with the new content to realize a problem is sitting there staring them down. People have a misconceived notion the game is too big to fail. All things come to an end
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490273#Comment_3490273
These tactics wouldn't be so bad if they actually took some sort disagree of difficulty to pull off... but they don't. Any noob killer can stand still to camp or follow someone all game to tunnel. This can cause low level players to beat more skill players consistently which isn't fine at all. The perks power creep is also ridiculous to point that it almost pay to win. I don't see how this could be consider a competitive game when your skill doesn't even matter half the time.
In slightly different terms than I would have used, but I feel both of these comments hit the mark.
The logical, competitive side of me understands why the behavior is so common. But looking a bit further, I can also logically conclude how this behavior is nothing if not detrimental to the game. ...which is why it is so strange to me when people want to be apathetic and condescending to those who express their grievances about the issue.
"Because I can" and "because I should" are not the same.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489207#Comment_3489207
Okay, consider this. DBD is now a victim of it's own success.
If you get burnt out of COD, you can play Battlefield.
If you get burnt out of fortnite, you can swap to Apex.
If you get burnt out of DBD, you can play....DBD. There are no other games like DBD to turn to if you get fed up with DBD. DBD's success has killed all the competition off.
Maybeee....?
I actually think it works to BHVR's benefit that DBD has no real competition.
Mathieu felt comfortable recommending players go "play something else" like Civilization, all those years ago, because he knew BHVR was sitting on a unique player experience that couldn't be had anywhere else online. Players can walk away from the game, and unless they are genuinely tired with the format/game mode/what-ever-you-wanna-call-it, they will come back to Dead by Daylight.
If people are tired of DBD, they shouldn't look for something similar to DBD. They should explore other genres, and return to DBD when they're emotionally recharged.
-
@o7o said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489059#Comment_3489059
So it's their fault for being slugged and getting facecamped on hook?
Also, I doubt it's because they were a "weak link", there are way too many killers that will tunnel to tunnel, or, bleed out or face camp to be toxic or think they're in for an easy 4k. I have seen so many killers mindlessly attempt to tunnel people better than them, and often times will stand there and watch them bleed out or camp them on hook hitting their body until timer runs out.
And most of the time, killers fail to apply pressure slugging and struggle doing so.
I have legit ran a killer for basically 3 gens before and when they finally caught me, guess what? I was getting camped on hook, teammates go for a save, killer tries tunneling me. You can't just tell someone to play another game if the current one is making them miserable. Blame the mechanics being too easy to abuse for malice with little punishment.
Killers putting in effort to win =/= being toxic
"Taking one for the team" works when you're buying your team time to escape, but getting bled out or just face camped on hook til timer runs out is not excusable behavior.
You can’t just tell someone to play another game if the current one is making them miserable
Buddy, it sounds like you’re struggling with the same addiction they are. The same one that I struggled with for several years.
It is not healthy to chase dopamine highs. If I can’t make anyone here realize that, I hope someone else can get you all the help you need.
I love DBD and I wish BHVR all the success in the world. But I cannot in good faith recommend y’all keep playing the game
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489089#Comment_3489089
So you are deciding what game is fun or not? Maybe they love horror multiplayer and DbD is best choice for this? Now you will tell them go and play Minecraft?
Makes sense? No.
What makes sense is that people don't waste their time doing things that make them miserable.
It doesn't matter how much you enjoy the horror genre, if every time you engage with it you feel awful--the same can be said about literally anything else in life.
-
@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489059#Comment_3489059
“You queued into the only team role in the game—you should feel obligated to help the team escape.” Yeah i have done that before. I have held on for 2 minutes while a bubba is camping. You know what i got out of it? Nothing. No bloodpoints, depip and overall a boring experience. i play on console so i cant even get a “thank you” from my teammates
“you either need to work on yourself or go play a different game” nah sorry thats bs. What should happen is bhvr should fix stupid mechanics get rid of unfun. It’s definitely my fault that i dont find getting face camped fun. Its my fault that i find being slugged for 4 minutes on the ground fun. The game is fun when its normal win or lose. It is not fun when you get an ######### as your opponent. This is a casual party video game. Not a competitive one. You dont sign contracts to stay in games either like facecamping bubba games.
I'm not going to pretend like I've never felt underappreciated as a teammate--as if all of my efforts were for naught. That is the nature of playing a team game; you a win and you lose AS A TEAM. Great players will succeed as a result of their efforts, and they will also lose despite their achievements.
How you handle that defeat is a reflection of your character.
Call this a "casual party game" all you want, but you're clearly not having a party playing it, and the players you are facing are putting in an effort to beat you. Nothing you can say or do will ever change that latter fact.
What is the catalyst that will get you to stop playing this game? Evidently you are not enjoying it, and logical people stop doing things they do not enjoy. It is noble that you would endure so much pain, to be a statistic in BHVR's data logs, but at some point you need to walk away.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489059#Comment_3489059
Not everyone have that much time. Some people have time for 2 - 3 matches and maybe they don't wanna waste it against these killers?
Camping and tunnelling are clearly issues, BHVR should fix them. Because killer player is not letting other players to play game in cases like that.
If you don't have a lot of free time in your day, why would you waste it gambling on having a good time playing DBD? It does not make any sense.
There are so many other amazing games you could be playing that you will enjoy every time you sit down to play it.
-
@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z9DKV7AZE6AF/img-1984.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/35358SRI4SII/img-2012.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0HCCJSM1NEOO/img-1782.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/850ATPYHWYAY/img-0722.jpeg
Again, Not saying dc penalties should be removed because we need them. But like i don’t understand people that just want to make the punishments we already have hasher. Why on earth should i just sit there on the hook with a bubba is camping me. Why on earth should i sit there on the ground when the killer wants to force bleedouts. Why shouldn’t i just miss both skill check after a wesker tunnels me off the hook at 5 or 4 gens?
You should sit there on the hook, because if you D/C or sac yourself, you’ve taken 2+ minutes of objective time away from your teammates. You queued into the only team role in the game—you should feel obligated to help the team escape.
If you can’t take one for the team, you need to acknowledge that while the game can be fun, most of the time it is not…or acknowledge that you’re not a team player, and you either need to work on yourself or go play a different game.
All that said, BHVR should definitely address the elements of DBD that players use to torment their opponent.
You should consider, however, that some elements (such as sitting on a hook for up to 2 minutes) are problems that may have no real solution.
Sitting on the hook is like being a benchwarmer. You’re probably doing it because you’re the weak link, but you love the game and your team is going to need you at some point so you endure.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
How about the trial still ends when 4 survivors disconnect and the killer just gets BP? Like 15k-20k.
Killers wont be playing against 4 bots and survivor will find a new thing to hate killers for. A win-win lol.
Who knows, maybe survs just stop dcing to spitefully deny such 4bot-game-ender-compensation.
This is so ridiculous, it might just work.
If anything in this game is a constant, it’s players’ desire to prevent their opponent any semblance of victory.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488146#Comment_3488146
Not the guy you replied to, heads up.
For one, if DC penalties are gone people will be replaced by a bot. Right now, more people will kill themselves on hook because that means there won't be a penalty for them. If that's removed, they'll AFK. If that's bannable, they'll throw. You get the picture there. With the Bot DC system, you want people to DC because that means it'll spawn a bot. If they don't DC, no bot.
Secondly, most players never experienced DBD without a penalty, so there's a novelty factor in play. It's a shiny new toy for them to play with, but that will fade over time.
Lastly, I think it'll help burn-out. Survivor teammates are happier because they have a chance to play, Killer is happy because they have some sort of a challenge and can still get points/achievements and the DC'd player is happy because they got out of an unfun match, meaning they'll be less likely to DC in the future after being forced to endure horrid match after horrid match.
I think you bring up some good points, and it sounds to me like we have two different schools of thought.
You) Accept rage-quitting for the inevitability that it is, and lean into it with a system that neither punishes nor rewards. A.K.A AI backfilling is the future of gaming
Me) Reject rage-quitting, despite its inevitability, and enforce a system that values quality over quantity. A.K.A Make A Gamer Selfless Again
Apologies if that feels like I’m putting words in your mouth
I do foresee the alleviated burn-out. DBD struggles with the vicious cycle of “hate begets hate,” and bots present an opportunity to salvage a previously soured experience.
It is such a question mark right now, though. When people play PvP games, they like to know that they are playing against real people.
It is difficult to predict how the community will react—and it may even take several months to really make waves one way or another.
@Oberlin1694 said:
DC penalties should stay but be capped at 30 minutes.
Currently the 72hr max ban is far, far, far too high.
This isn’t a F2P product with multiple modes, this is a fully P2P product with a single mode. If you’re banned for 72hrs the game is basically not functioning as intended.
This actually breaches consumer rights laws in so many countries and BHVR does risk legal issues if it isn’t changed if someone petty enough decides to go after them.
Totally agree, crime does not fit the punishment. Even for repeat offenders, anything beyond 2hrs is pretty egregious
-
@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487777#Comment_3487777
Bots are better than nothing. I have seen so many people die on hook to get out of a game and if they get saved will throw every pallet. I would rather they just DC. I'm not even talking about me being able to DC, just people who do ######### like that. I don't think it will be nothing but bot games every match, but no one truly fully knows if that would be the case or not. They can assume it will be, but no one really knows unless it gets tested.
That's why I think they should do a trial of it where they get rid of the DC penalty for a week or maybe two just to see if people notice games are better and they don't see an uptick in people dying on hook. Because what I know right now is we do currently have a DC and dying on hook problem. People have been complaining about that for the past year or so and I think something should be done and I think we should at the very least try it instead of being so sure we know what the outcome will be.
I mean another alternative could be a player's ban is based on how long their bot is in a game. Everyone is assigned a bot number and if your bot is still in a game, then you can't ready up until that bot is dead or escaped.
Can I ask how you believe the removal of the DC penalty would improve the current situation?
I understand your position of "lets try it and see what happens," but as @Trollinmon pointed out, we've already been down that path and the disconnects spike every single time.
There is zero love lost between players in this game, which is why no one feels obligated to see their game through. So I am very curious to know how enabling "my fun isn't your responsibility" could at all be beneficial.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487875#Comment_3487875
Empathy starts conversations.
Demonizing the other side does nothing except divide people further. Trying to understand goes a long way.
You're not wrong there.
We could do with a whole lot less demonizing.
-
@Peanits said:
I can definitely say that it is not a measure to stop cheaters. It might have been an extra hurdle to make it a bit more inconvenient way back in the early days of the game, but this is not why the cap exists today.
These days, the cap exists to pace progress when new content releases. Having goals to work towards helps keep the game interesting, and leveling up the new characters to unlock their perks & add-ons is a goal that most people aim for without even thinking about it. The cap is there to limit how many Bloodpoints you can stockpile so that you can't instantly max out all the new characters the moment they are released.
Would BHVR ever consider a system similar to mobile, where Bloodpoints are tied to the character you used in a trial?
There is the obvious concern of taking away something the community has grown used to, and thus causing undue outrage...but do you think it would be worth considering as a way to balance the game through BP economy, while also manufacturing a certain degree of Killer variety?
-
@Pulsar said:
Half of the arguments here are so lacking empathy that all I can hear is the Bubba streamer I played against who bled me out after two of my teammates DC'd and I tried to let go on hook, then got unhooked, and then got hump teched for 4 minutes. Avter the match he was speaking all kinds of things about how Survivors should be banned for 2 months for trying to get out of a game, how dare they not want to play with him and the classic "your fun isn't my responsibility"
Yeah buddy, the "babyrage Survivor dc counter" you have on your stream tipped me off to what kind of player I'm dealing with.
That's all I can think about looking at some of the replies here.
Empathy doesn’t solve the chronic DC problem that plagues this game.
That Bubba was wrong to do what he did, but his behavior doesn’t excuse the fact that the absence of regulation creates chaos.
@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487835#Comment_3487835
And how will a system be able to document and differentiate between "throwing yourself at the killer" and being hard tunneled from the start? The only way this would work is if someone manually reviewed all those matches and that's just not going to happen.
The system doesn’t flag that behavior—other players do.
There is no “evidence” to submit when a player disconnects. No proof that they left out of malice.
Whereas AFKing and throwing can be documented by other players and submitted to BHVR for review.
-
DC penalty needs to be made harsher, and BHVR needs to introduce the ability to rejoin an active game.
To my knowledge, BHVR doesn’t ban players for disconnecting, because there is little-to-no actionable evidence supporting the motive of rage quitting.
If players circumvent long DC penalties by AFKing and throwing themself at the killer, they will eventually be documented and banned.
For the longevity of the game, players who are not committed to seeing every game through—barring an IRL emergency—should be given no incentive to stick around.
The “disconnecting because things aren’t going my way” culture that has developed here is a scourge that that is quietly killing the game.
-
I really wish this question was being asked in good faith.
This is probably the closest I've seen to a real discussion around this perk, but it's still marred by premise that MFT should be nerfed.
We have players saying that MFT is not an issue, and we have players who believe it to be the bane of their very existence.
If you're struggling with MFT, your issue lies somewhere in that skill gap between you and the people who don't take issue with it. I would implore you to explore that gap before asking BHVR to step in and solve your problem.
Stop assuming that everyone defending MFT has malicious intent. When you come into a discussion with a close mind, you're never going to learn anything from it.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486721#Comment_3486721
"very rarely are you doing so without additional information" source trust me bro
You’re obviously not interested in having a genuine conversation about this, because you meet everything with snide remarks.
Honestly can’t tell if you’re being cheeky because you're a troll or if your understanding of this game is just incredibly shallow.
You seem to operate under the premise that if you can’t see it, you don’t know where it is.
How observant you are, and what conclusions you can draw about everyone’s location is an expression of skill.
If you can’t deduce where the Killer is throughout most of the trial, either:
a) You need to work on your awareness, because it is sorely lacking
OR
b) The Killer is doing an excellent job of being unpredictable
In either case, there is skill (or a lack thereof) at play.
It continues to blow my mind that I can provide practical, applicable, tried-and-true advice to people on this forum, and all anyone has to say back is “doubt.”
If you’re going to waste the hours of your day playing this game, you might as well make an effort to improve in it, so you can stop being a grump when faced with a challenge.
The forums could do with a lot less kvetches who just want to be catered to their every need.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486699#Comment_3486699
I'm hardly even cherry picking tho, sure specifically a 3 gen on lerys is a stretch, but the situation where you have to work on a gen near los blockers really isnt, youre not being realistic assuming that its always your decision whether you can or not
idk what to tell you.
I’ve offered practical advice that has always worked for me. There is nuance to that advice, that I haven’t expressed on account of this conversation being what it is, but on a surface level it holds water.
Even if you are forced to sit on a gen with the worst LOS and little-to-no resources for chase, very rarely are you doing so without additional information.
Your skill expression in those scenarios comes from how you play the macro game.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486556#Comment_3486556
Yeah very possible to do that on lerys in a 3 gen situation where all gens have los blockers all around, again, if we're lying
It shouldn't surprise anyone that while I'm speaking GENERALLY on gameplay strategy, one could point out exceptions to those rules. The existence of an exception does not automatically refute what I am saying, nor does it suggest that the concepts I've brought forth are worth disregarding.
A doctor will tell you that exercise is good for your health. You could say "It's below zero and there is ice all over the pavement, surely I'd break a few bones if I tried running outside." You would not be wrong for identifying the risks of exercising in winter, but you've also not disproven the doctor's advice--just as you've not disproven mine.
You're also not even talking about Hit N' Run at this point. The incredibly niche scenario you've provided can be skillfully approached in a variety of ways I'm not certain you're worth my time describing.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486531#Comment_3486531
I don't know what you're referring to by quote below, but if it's perks, that's literally the whole problem. Because that's not a perk covering a weakness, that's a perk being a necessity.
You do, thanks for the anecdotal evidence though, it's meaningless, go against good survivors and lmk how that goes
Good. Maybe if you weren't lazy and commited to chases it wouldn't be an issue, that's how it should be
You can position your camera in whatever way, it's not gonna matter if the killer is undetectable and has los blockers. It's not even a discussion and it's not a skill issue, it's literally not rocket science. Los blockers + no terror radius means theres no way to tell when the killer is coming, get over it and stop making excuses such as being forced to run perks which are still not just to cover weaknesses, but a literal necessity which shouldnt be a thing.
Also I find it comical you're calling anyone else here "disingenuous" when you are beating around the bush pretending hit and run takes skill or you can simply look at the killer through walls to avoid being ambushed by them, what an absolute joke, get real
I'm not pretending anything. I've played the game for thousands of hours, and I've learned most, if not all, of the game's skill expressions.
While I don't consider DBD the most skill-intensive online PvP game, everything from the direction you walk/run when you first spawn down to the side of a gen you sit on is a skill. You "out skill" an undetectable killer through the gen you decide to work on, the side you sit on, and where you look, all relative to the how healthy you are, the perks you've brought with you, and the information you've gathered in the trial thus far.
Stealth killers seldom get free hits from me, because I position myself in such a way that I always see them before they see me, and I've already mapped out my escape route. All of that is an expression of skill.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486451#Comment_3486451
Except it's not even a personal weakness, it's literally just something you can't deal with in solo, not to mention that their entire point has been that it's boring as opposed to it being effective.
You shouldn't have to use gen regression to stop gens from flying
Survivors healing too quickly isn't an issue anymore
Difficulty finding survivors is mostly a skill issue, as well as struggling to chain tiles together, missing skill checks
Killers getting the jump on you isn't a skill issue, there's literally nothing you can do about it in solo, it's already been explained. Stop being so ignorant to the problem just saying it's a skill issue regardless of whether it is or isn't. You shouldn't have to run perks to deal with these issues.
It's like saying "bad at being in a swf? just run bond" or "bad at winning games vs meta? just use meta?" as if those aren't LITERAL necessities.
it's literally just something you can't deal with in solo
except you can... *see direct response to quote below*
You shouldn't have to use gen regression to stop gens from flying
You don't. I don't run gen regression, and I've never struggled with Killer. I'm not 4king every game, nor am I trying to, but gen speeds have never been a major issue for me because I've managed it through other means.
Survivors healing too quickly isn't an issue anymore
Doesn't mean it can't be an issue for anyone playing Killer. Heal speeds may have been nerfed, but Killers can still find themselves struggling to build pressure by keeping multiple survivors injured.
Killers getting the jump on you isn't a skill issue
It is 1000% a skill issue. Through map awareness, positioning, and camera placement, Survivors can mitigate the strength of Hit N' Run. If you struggle against Hit N' Run, and don't just hate it for what it is, you're not exercising a number of skills that can help you in your games. ...and until you can master those skills, you should run X, Y, and Z to help you. <--- quite literally Crowman's point.
@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486451#Comment_3486451
In what universe did I ever say I was weak or struggling against this playstyle lol? What am I compensating for exactly?
You guys continue to argue with a wall about a point you made up about me.
I never said Hit and Run was uncounterable, in fact I said I win most of my games against it, I personally feel that its brainless and uninteractive to go against. You can get mad at this opinion, but I still maintain that DBD would be better for encouraging interaction based gameplay.
This is the reason why I don't care about tunneling and actively enjoy being tunneled (within reason,) its high-stakes, fast-paced gameplay that's entirely interactive and lead to huge gains for both sides.
You said "advising someone to take perks just for the chance that it might counter the killer's playstyle is folly," which is why I included you in my response.
I don't care if YOU specifically struggle against Hit N' Run or not. You tried to diminish Crowman's argument on the basis that players shouldn't have to run perks to compensate for their weaknesses. That does not make any sense.
You're welcome to dislike Hit N' Run as a playstyle. However, I found what you said to Crowman to be disingenuous.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486358#Comment_3486358
Anything that doesnt involve having to use specific perks or are you just gonna keep up with the excuses? You're basically admitting that you're forced to run SB and a medkit or some other thing to help you get healed (such as swfing) or else hnr doesnt actually have decent counterplay. And even then, wraith can just get u to use ur SB and immediatley bounce, so yeah. Complaining about hit and run doesnt show anything besides understanding what actually makes dbd fun and interesting. Thinking hit and run has skill expression just shows you're a lazy killer. Stop making excuses for this brainless playstyle already, its so obnoxiously forced
@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486358#Comment_3486358
Advising someone to take perks just for the chance that it might counter the killer's playstyle is folly.
Fear-Mongerer, Sloppy, Lethal, XYZ is a very common pubstomp build that counters most of what you're suggesting.
Again its not that the strat is uncounterable, I win most of my games vs Hit and Run, I just personally find it to be extremely uninteractive and boring, so I want to see it get nerfed but only when killers get buffed so they don't have to use it because PVP games should encourage interaction.
Crowman advised you to take perks that compensate for your weaknesses, not account for the chance of something happening.
You're both so anti-Hit N' Run that you can't even process fundamental gameplay strategy for what it is. If you struggle with ANYTHING in the game, the natural response anyone should have is to recommend you run certain perks or play in such a way that minimizes your struggle.
Gens flying too fast? "Use gen regression."
Survivors healing too quickly? "Use Sloppy"
Difficulty finding Survivors? "Use Aura Reading"
Struggling to chain tiles together? "Windows of Opportunity"
Bad at skill checks? "Technician"
Killers constantly getting the drop on you? "Sprint Burst"
Y'all really going to pretend like any of those are excuses and/or niche advice? If you struggle with any element of the game, and there are perks you can run that raise your performance in those areas, you are a fool for not running those perks. It's common sense.
-
@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486024#Comment_3486024
HNR on wraith and legion isnt scary at all, wraith has a very blatant sound cue and legion has TR, even without any sound cue it's just not even scary imo, just really boring
The horror aspect doesn't come from any literal jumpscare.
It's the suspense that builds from uncertainty. The inability to predict when you'll be in chase next, and the fear that the Killer will come over to you at any moment, and the need to be ready to run at the drop of a hat. All of that contributes to a Survivor's anxiety and nervousness in a trial.
If you're in a SWF, there won't be that same fear factor, but there is definitely something to be said about the coordination and communication required to play against Hit N' Run. There is way more teamwork required, because the communication needs to be constant.
-
Circle of Healing was a whole can of worms I wish BHVR never opened.
It's a parasite that completely redefined the way Survivors think about the game.
Both nerfs were necessary, but the medkit nerfed felt a bit uninspired. Give all medkits the same charges and heal speed, then include the ability to remove status effects like Haemorrhage, Deep Wound, Mangled, and possibly even Hindered.
I've no suggestions for how to implement those into the game, I just think the medkits need more situational value. Maybe you have a medkit that doesn't even heal, it just removes status effects, idk.
I'm a huge fan of Hit N' Run because it brings the horror element back into the game. Survivors should always be looking over their shoulder, and there is just too much security in knowing you can sit on a gen for 90s because the Killer needs to commit to their current chase or they will lose the game. Sitting on a gen is boring, but the threat of the Killer showing up at any moment goes a long way towards making it fun and engaging.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485944#Comment_3485944
That would require them to decide DBD is a competitive game.
Overwatch QP didn't have a matchmaking ban for leaving last I checked.
CoD doesn't.
Battlefield doesn't.
Overwatch QP backfills players when they disconnect, and COD does the same.
Battlefield is a large enough lobby where one player leaving does not impact the game in any meaningful way.
DBD doesn't need to be "competitive" by any official means for BHVR to implement harsher DC penalties.
The reality is that one player leaving a DBD lobby has a larger impact on everyone else's experience than in any of the games you listed. Therefore, what works for them is not also a solution for DBD.
-
@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485228#Comment_3485228
The reality is that tryhards tends to play killers, especially when it’s not a m1 killer. Survivors players are more chill, casuals and goofy. You need 4 tryhards survivors to compete with 1 tryhard killer.
Now put soloQ into the mix and it’s easy to understand why the kill rates don’t make any sense whatsoever.
If you think that’s fine balancing for casuals with a broken MMR it is because you don’t play any competitive games. In any comp game you have a separate queue with harsher rules :
- queues are longer to get more balanced matches. Usually you can play while waiting.
- you see your own skill rating and get rewards the higher it is
- DC penalty is harsh : you lose SR and get a big temporary ban. Repeat it and you will end up banned for good. You can also be banned for obvious throwing by your teamates, that includes being AFK.
I am all for a comp queue and a leaderboard for each killer + survivor leaderboard but my guess is that the game is too old for them to implement this. Also it would be unpopular, remember these 8000h streamers complaining about games being too sweaty when the SBMMR was introduced ?
So instead we end up with a tournament setting outside the game with tons of bans on the survivor side to give a chance to killers, and a live game with a broken MMR with survivors throwing by suiciding or doing useless challenges and giving the illusion of balanced stats.
DC penalty is harsh : you lose SR and get a big temporary ban. Repeat it and you will end up banned for good. You can also be banned for obvious throwing by your teamates, that includes being AFK.
Every online PvP game I play hits players with a 30 minute matchmaking cooldown for first offense. I couldn't tell you what happens after that, because I've never received consecutive cooldowns in other games. I do know, however, that a repeat offender who is reported can have their account banned on most, if not all of the games I play.
DBD gives players what... 3 disconnects before they are hit with a 30 minute matchmaking cooldown?
I'm not a big rage quitter, but I have my moments from time to time. Unquestionably, I disconnect in DBD more than any other game I've ever played. The game doesn't make my blood boil any more than any other online PvP game, I just know I can do it without consequence...over and over and over.
BHVR needs to raise the disconnect penalty to 30 minutes. In the spirit of "hot takes," lets say it should be 60 minutes (: Then, thanks to the introduction of bots, they need to implement the ability for players to rejoin their game session. That way, if someone's internet goes out they can attempt to rejoin and continue playing.
-
Survivor is easier without exhaustion perks.
-
@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461367#Comment_3461367
Conveniently forgetting that not every killer has a power designed for chases...
Conveniently responding to my first of many comments in this thread, as if I didn't address killers without powers designed for chases...
-
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481379#Comment_3481379
Lithe and Sprint Burst have limited effect so you are sure it can't get out of hand.
MFT doesn't have it.
Top killers don't care that much about MFT, but it's still good.
MFT gets into broken level only against few killers.
I don't know about you, but I still find it an issue. That's same as when perk is oppressive against soloQ, but ok against SWF (eruption).
Lithe and Sprint Burst have limited effect so you are sure it can't get out of hand. MFT doesn't have it.
Right, and as such MFT is less of a bail-out perk and more of a flat buff to Survivor. I personally do not see that as a problem--they are two different approaches to design, each with their own upsides and downsides.
Without a doubt, it is the strongest perk to be released since Boon: Circle of Healing. Currently, I lean towards it being one of the most balanced perks BHVR has ever released, barring the synergy with Hope (Hope needs a nerf, so they can explore Haste effects more) and the M1 Killers who were already struggling before this perk's release.
I totally understand people's concerns for MFT, but I think they are slightly misplaced. Granted, I don't blame people for calling on a perk to be nerfed when Killer's seem to be reworked once a blue moon.
-
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481030#Comment_3481030
It doesn't need to be in straight line.
Btw yes you do.
After you hit a survivor with basic attack, survivor runs in straight line away from you. Until you get near loop, there is not much else you can do other than drop chase if loop is too strong.
Btw that distance is about 14 meters.
From just 14 meters will MFT give you 2.8 meters, which is 5.8 seconds.
With simple calculation Lithe give you 4,2 meters of extra distance after those 3 seconds of running. That's 7 seconds
Lithe 7 seconds is maximum, can be less if you screwed it. That's it, once per chase.
MFT 5.8 seconds is not maximum. You keep getting more distance. If you get into window or pallet, you easily pass Lithe effectiveness.
Btw from 14 meters it will take 29 seconds for killer to catch you. You will reach pallet or window during that time. It's less in reality because bloodlust, but I will not get real number without writing it down and I can't be bothered.
It's funny you don't like straight line, because on round loops MFT is even more effective.
Lithe has different purpose anyway. MFT is closer to Overcome, but better.
I think the problem is that you're not evaluating Sprint Burst, Lithe, etc. the same way that you evaluate MFT.
You, and many others who complain about MFT, assume that MFT will get you to a pallet or window you otherwise would not have reached, which in turn extends the chase by X seconds, therefore making the perk OP.
Other exhaustion perks do the EXACT SAME THING but are discussed as if their value ends with however much distance they allow a survivor to gain--7 seconds, as you mentioned with Lithe.
Lithe does not grant a Survivor a maximum of 7 seconds, just as MFT does not grant a maximum of 5.8 seconds. In the right hands, they both have potential to extend chase for serious amounts of time. They also both have the potential to grant a Survivor zero benefit in chase. A Survivor with Lithe can be downed as they are vaulting a window, and a Survivor with MFT can be zoned and downed without a tile to loop around.
With a Killer roster full of stealth, mobility, and range abilities, short bursts of speed is far more valuable to Survivors than haste.