KayTwoAyy
KayTwoAyy
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@DrKetchup said:
The WHOLE GAME is balanced around 100% survivor base speed, from Killer power design, to loop length, from palet and window positioning to distance between loops. There should be NO perks that in any shape or form gives survivors a speed boost for longer than 3-4 seconds!
Flawed logic.
The game isn't balanced around any one control, because every game sees a new killer on a new map against different survivors, running different perks, different items, different add-ons, and different levels of experience.
The game is DESIGNED around 100% Survivor base speed, but it is BALANCED around variables that are far more fluid.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479703#Comment_3479703
normally i do agree with pulsar , but not this time , this perk is just terrible designed buddy , just go into a custom match with someone experienced a try playing a 1v1 on many maps , is not that hard to notice how much distance you are gonna lose over just breaking a pallet with a m1 killer or missing a hit barely just because of MFT.
only mobility killer powers and specific addon combinations should not be the way to counter such a strong perk like this ,
yeah lets keep a perk that hurts m1 killers even more meanwhile the S / A tier killer are gonna be just fine , what a logic.
"Remove the Endurance"
or they can just buff that to 16 seconds and remove the extra 3% movement
Dead by Daylight is a 4v1 game, not a 1v1.
Believe it or not, a perk or ability can be strong in the 1v1 yet weak in the 4v1. Survivors have never really had anything like this before, at least not with such strength that the community wants to talk about it, but Killers have been familiar with this concept for years (i.e. Deathslinger).
A Killer is not forced to chase any one survivor, and if said Survivor's perks + surrounding area render them harder to catch, the Killer should respect that. Most of the Killer roster has an ability that lets them get free first hits on Survivors by catching them in unsafe areas or simply getting the drop on them when they least expect it.
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I feel like representation is BHVR's bread and butter.
I may not always agree with their design and balance choices, but presently I feel as though they are setting the industry standard for representation in a live service game.
The way and rate in which they are diversifying their roster feels incredibly natural, so I'd say they should keep doing what they are doing. If there are people who still feel underrepresented in the game, I hope for their sake that something they can relate to will find it's way into the game sooner rather than later.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471002#Comment_3471002
Dead Hard for Distance and Dead Hard for Dodging were 2 completely separate things and DH4D is the bit that people complained about.
Can't help but laugh at the fact that Distance and Dodging both start with the letter D. So while I understood your acronym, it looks like the most political response🤣
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468752#Comment_3468752
Ah yes, the "fun" perk argument?
There are a lot of "fun" perks. Diversion? Hope? Blast Mine? Smash Hit? No Mither? Object of Obsession? Soul Guard? Red Herring? For The People? I can list more.
Notice how all of those perks have fun and interesting effects. Notice how you never see them in public matches.
The truth is that most people dont care if things are fun or not, it's the same reason why you see the exact same builds from Survivors and Killers every match, because people care more about winning than using "fun" things. You can cut the BS because it's really easy to see through.
And what about interacting with the Killer? Old Dead Hard created mindgaming, new ways of playing with and against the perk. I was fine with Old Dead Hard, now we are stuck with this Made For This meta which is arguably more boring (since it promotes holding W), less interactive (since the perk is just passively giving extra distance with minimal downside), and stronger than what we had before (no need to worry about timing or precision, you just get the benefits for free).
Oh yea, what about "fun" things from the Killer's side?
Scratch Mirror, one of my favorite addons in the game, is completely useless in this meta. You move 5% faster than Survivors in Tier 1; MFT makes you move 3% faster while injured; you are 2% faster than Survivors... holding a loop tightly is already enough to not be caught by this, now you can actually gain distance. Oh, but I guess you wont care about that?
Or my main Killer, Billy, yes they have an insta-down power, but curving requires insane precision, and even with Double Engravings, you BARELY catch Survivors, once Survivors know that you use your chainsaw a lot, they stay injured because there is no point in healing. 3% is enough to make the difference between a down or not. Prior to Made For This releasing, I played Billy a lot. Now they are basically unplayable because they are a glorified M1 Killer in the current meta. But I guess you wont care about that?
The "fun" argument goes both ways, people having "fun" is nice, but your "fun" does come at the expense of effectively removing and punishing players for picking certain Killers and addons. Your "fun" makes people not want to use other "fun" things that exist, because it effectively punishes people for wanting to have fun and forces them into strict playstyles.
It sounds like we disagree on MFT, but I really like your take here.
With respect to any competition, people arrive with the expectation that the game/event will provide the entertainment while the player puts themself in the best position for success--not the other way around. It is naive to think that people will sabotage themselves in order to have more fun. People will at times exhibit such behaviors, but it was always the game's repsonsibility to bring the fun, just as it was the player's responsibility to bring the challenge to other competitors.
You bring up a really great point about old Dead Hard. While players were frustrated with their perceived 'lose/lose' scenarios, the perk was creating opportunities for Killers and Survivors to exercise their skill over one another. Between DH and MFT, Dead Hard facilitates a far more interesting gameplay experience.
I also don't see what is so "fun" about MFT. I know I've been defending it, but like... what is so fun about going 3% faster?
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468638#Comment_3468638
Old dead hard also "just made survivors a 'bit' better at what they do", that's the issue. There's a reason haste perks are rarely introduced into the game, and when they are, they have strict conditions. MFT gives you free distance just like what old dead hard did with no reliable in game counterplay. That's the issue.
Being injured is part of the game. You will get injured in 99.9% of games. Survivors aren't vulnerable when they're injured, they're vulnerable when they're at risk of being downed. The perks synergy with dead hard, the existence of other S tier injury perks (resil, OTR, DS), and basic team coordination means that unless you're against either nurse or bubba who can counter all of the above, being injured does not mean that much.
Positioning will always be a more significant factor. This means that it does go against their philosophy since it doesn't have a strict activational requirement, as being injured is not a significant requirement, definitely not significant enough for permanent 3%.
As for killer powers, that's just straight wrong. If one single perk is forcing a killer to mindbreaker/exhaustion add ons every match then that perk has too much of an impact and should be nerfed. Doctor, knight, trickster, etc should not be forced to bring exhaustion perks because survivors *might* bring ONE perk.
For other killers having in game counterplay, nah. I've done enough testing in KYF, watched enough gameplay, done enough pubs to come to a reasonable conclusion that it screws over a solid 75% of the killer cast. As I said: Wraith lunge, billy curves, hag hits, huntress, doctor shock greeding, bubba catchup, freddy snares, pyramid head charging/catchup, trickster, artist, dredge, sadako, knight, singularity overclock duration. All moments in a killers power that is balanced around catching the survivor in a specific time frame it is too strong against because they are not balanced around a 20-30% longer catchup time, they are balanced around the base catchup time.
If being almost as unfun as old dead hard, having no in game counterplay for the majority of killers, encouraging tunnelling, screwing over specific killer powers, goes against the structure of every other haste perk, and having no valid pre requisite to use the perk, isn't enough to warrant a nerf, then ######### me IDK what does.
For starters, I disagree with your premise that MFT and old Dead Hard are effectively the same. They may seek to achieve the same thing (reaching pallets/windows you otherwise would not have) but they go about it in very different ways, and the way DH does it has always been the community's problem.
Dead Hard creates the illusion of victory for Killers, leading them to feel robbed when the Survivor 'presses E' and continues running away. Many feel that there is no counterplay to this interaction, putting Killers in a lose/lose situation.
MFT does not have the "gotcha" mechanic that Dead Hard has, and thus Killers can account for the perk and play around it without the fear of feelsbad surprises.
The counterplay for MFT is pretty much anything but following the Survivor's exact pathing and relying on math to win you the game. There will inevitably be times where that is the best strategy to employ, but by and large Killers have more at their disposal than you give them credit for.
You went on to list a ton of Killers who are mildly inconvenienced by MFT.
Wraith - Body block window, then take free hit or force pallet drop. Rinse and repeat.
Billy - Downs healthy Survivors, so MFT isn't even a problem.
Hag - Not a chase killer, so unaffected by MFT.
...do I really need to go through these one by one? To say that all these Killers are hurt by MFT is disingenuous.
Doctor is perhaps the biggest loser to MFT, but I don't play Doctor so someone more skilled with him than I might be able to tell us what it has been like playing him since the update. Other than that, you've named Trickster, who already struggles unless he's handed a map full of pallet loops and low LOS blockers.
Also, why does everyone say that MFT "encourages tunneling?" How is that even remotely true? If the perk is adding 20-30+ seconds to all of your chases, you're trolling by over-committing to any one Survivor.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468638#Comment_3468638
"It just makes Survivors slightly better at what they do", "MFT does not change Survivor gameplay in any meaningful way".
"MFT is a high impact perk".
So which is it? Does the perk have high impact or is it meaningless? You cant argue that it's activation condition "must be strong" while saying "the perk is weak and meaningless", it literally just contradicts what you are saying.
The statement:
MFT does not change Survivor gameplay in any meaningful way--it just makes Survivors slightly better at what they already do.
refers to how MFT effects the gameplay loop. With or without MFT, nothing about the Survivors' strategy changes. They play the game the exact same way whether they are running MFT or not.
That is all that statement is saying.
If you noticed, that statement was in response to OP's comment that MFT is "unfun to verse."
@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468638#Comment_3468638
Old dead hard also "just made survivors a 'bit' better at what they do", that's the issue. There's a reason haste perks are rarely introduced into the game, and when they are, they have strict conditions. MFT gives you free distance just like what old dead hard did with no reliable in game counterplay. That's the issue.
Being injured is part of the game. You will get injured in 99.9% of games. Survivors aren't vulnerable when they're injured, they're vulnerable when they're at risk of being downed. The perks synergy with dead hard, the existence of other S tier injury perks (resil, OTR, DS), and basic team coordination means that unless you're against either nurse or bubba who can counter all of the above, being injured does not mean that much.
Positioning will always be a more significant factor. This means that it does go against their philosophy since it doesn't have a strict activational requirement, as being injured is not a significant requirement, definitely not significant enough for permanent 3%.
As for killer powers, that's just straight wrong. If one single perk is forcing a killer to mindbreaker/exhaustion add ons every match then that perk has too much of an impact and should be nerfed. Doctor, knight, trickster, etc should not be forced to bring exhaustion perks because survivors *might* bring ONE perk.
For other killers having in game counterplay, nah. I've done enough testing in KYF, watched enough gameplay, done enough pubs to come to a reasonable conclusion that it screws over a solid 75% of the killer cast. As I said: Wraith lunge, billy curves, hag hits, huntress, doctor shock greeding, bubba catchup, freddy snares, pyramid head charging/catchup, trickster, artist, dredge, sadako, knight, singularity overclock duration. All moments in a killers power that is balanced around catching the survivor in a specific time frame it is too strong against because they are not balanced around a 20-30% longer catchup time, they are balanced around the base catchup time.
If being almost as unfun as old dead hard, having no in game counterplay for the majority of killers, encouraging tunnelling, screwing over specific killer powers, goes against the structure of every other haste perk, and having no valid pre requisite to use the perk, isn't enough to warrant a nerf, then ######### me IDK what does.
I don't have time right now to articulate a response to this right now, but seeing as I chose to respond to Iron_Cutlass, I figured I would let you know that I will get back to this when I can. I liked your response.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468070#Comment_3468070
Why do you need reminding when when it takes 1 KYF of testing to show why the perk doesnt belong?
Anyway:
- Unfun to verse, as survivors get rewarded for you doing your job correctly and hitting them
- Goes against BHVRs design philosophy for haste perks (look at dark theory, hope, BP etc)
- Tiles, structures, maps, and killer powers are not balanced around a 20-30% longer catch up time
- MTF essentially acts like a mini pre rework dead hard at tiles, giving you pallets and vaults you normally wouldn't have reached
- Since survivor hitboxes are smaller than killer, building structures encourage W keying and hugging god windows which is only made possible due to the added catch up time (play literally 1 match on garden/suffo/ironworks)
- Due to map sizes and the distance between loops, W keying with the perk becomes obscenely strong
- Killer powers that rely heavily on close/precise hits get almost hard countered by the perk (wraith lunge, billy curves, hag scroll wheel, huntress, doctor shock greeding, bubba catchup, freddy snares, pyramid head charging/catchup, trickster, artist, dredge, sadako (since she is purely m1, nothing else), knight, singularity overclock duration)
- For such strong effects, it cannot be countered by in-match mechanics (don't have infinite exhaustion addons? lmao good luck)
- Encourages tunnelling and camping as injuring multiple survivors isn't appealing and you want to be able to down a survivor in reasonable time
- Stacks with other haste perks to make it even more problematic
- Synergises with dead hard
- Literally zero reason to NOT take the perk because of the reasons stated above
- Absolutely zero downsides
- Absolutely zero significant requirements for the perk to get value (no, being injured and not having exhaustion literally happens every match, that is NOT a requirement)
- Despite the 3% being overpowered on its own, it comes with a secondary haste effect which is also quite strong (idc about that part of the perk though, its just the 3%).
I've yet to see a single sensible argument detailing how the perk breaks the game in such a way that warrants receiving a nerf.
All the complaints about it embelish MFT's effect on the average game and neglect to acknowledge the existing mechanics that allow Killers to counter and/or play around it.
And yet, people continue to make posts talking as if everybody knows this perk is a problem.
unfun to verse
I'm sorry, but if this is true, you fundamentally disagree with DBD's core gameplay loop. MFT does not change Survivor gameplay in any meaningful way--it just makes Survivors slightly better at what they already do.
Goes against BHVRs design philosophy for haste perks (look at dark theory, hope, BP etc)
The perk follows the same logic as every other perk in the game; low impact, unconditional activation; high impact, conditional activation.
Self-Care and Circle of Healing have long been among the most popular perks in the game, and medkits have always been understood to be the best item in the game. Dead Hard was THE most popular perk, because it gave injured Survivors a third health state. ...yet suddenly, with the release of MFT, people want to claim that "being injured is not a big deal."
MFT is a high impact perk with the condition that Survivors need to be in their most vulnerable state. Survivors have long sought to mitigate the threat that came from being injured, so the notion that being injured is insignificant directly contradicts this game's entire history.
Tiles, structures, maps, and killer powers are not balanced around a 20-30% longer catch up time
Killer powers are absolutely capable of handling the distance MFT creates. There are a few (Doctor, Legion, and Trickster) who will feel pigeon-holed into running specific perks/add-ons to account for a meta-shift, but everyone else in the roster can play around MFT with their basekit ability.
I can elaborate on what I've said already, or respond to your other bullet points, should you so desire. Otherwise, I'll leave it there for sake of brevity.
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Remind me again why Made For This doesn't belong in the game?
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The game was not originally designed with much consideration for voice chat, so in that respect it is a significant advantage.
However, in recent years, the developers have been balancing the game with more consideration for voice comms, so that advantage is shrinking with each update.
All that said, you're asking too broad a question. Voice comms is a two way street.
When I SWF, I play with some pretty competitive gamers who make lots of call-outs. Sometimes the call-outs are live updates, "i'm on gen. terror radius. killer on me. I'm taking him to shack. killer left, he's going main. he's undetectable." etc. Other times, the call-outs come like my friends have spotty reception, "killer on me. I'm embarassing him." ...and then 2 seconds later tombstone Myers is killing me, because I was lead to believe he was chasing someone elsewhere.
Most players are not making call-outs like they're playing Overwatch, because the game seldom demands that from them in order to win. Pubs are such a mixed bag that players can reliably win in SWF without comp-style comms, so they're communication is just as likely to be harmful as it is helpful.
The real advantage SWFs have is knowing their teammates' skill level, tendencies, and perk loadouts. Without saying any word, everyone knows who is the gen jock, how long each player is likely to last in chase, who can and cannot be unsafely unhooked, who is doing archives, etc. ADDITIONALLY, a SWF plays with their teammates' best interest in mind--solo queue's biggest downfall is the prisoner's dilemma.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461583#Comment_3461583
Adapting and Evolving are literally the same thing.
They are synonymous.
That is not to say that they mean the same thing.
What is your point?
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Hard to enjoy the game as solo queue when someone is constantly throwing the trial.
Couldn't even tell you if the game is "good," because the last time I tried playing it other players were actively making sure everyone else had a miserable time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463745#Comment_3463745
looping is form of hold-w because you can imagine looping like curve straight line. if you ask me why I run the perk. its to counter bloodlust and to not get zoned by pallet breaking in the corner of the map. it gives me more options to run to every pallet rather then ignore the corner pallets due to m1 killer zoning. so now I can use 100% of maps resources instead of like 80% of pallet resources minus the few unsafe pallet on every map. that perk is going to be like DH in the sense that it likely won't get changed for 1 year but killer will complaining it about for 1 year straight like old DH for distance.
looping is a form of hold-w
I've officially heard it all.
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Did you return just for the event?
I'm not currently playing DBD, so I can't really speak on the event experience. ...but there is also a reason I haven't been playing DBD.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461666#Comment_3461666
I just like a paradox that your advice is to do things survivors hate.
Are you trying to say survivors don't cry about those things? I see multiple posts about killer defending gens and "holding game hostage".
Which is what you advised against hold W.
I play mainly Legion, Wraith, Skull merchant, Knight. Overall M1 killers, so I feel MFT quite a lot.
I got back to Oni because of it, don't really mind them staying injured...
I simply don't feel like perk that is best against weak killers is good design.
It's same as perk that focus soloQ imo. I find both problematic.
How is it a paradox? This discussion has not concerned itself in any way, shape, or form with what is fun or enjoyable.
You are either over-simplifying my advice, or failing to recognize the viable strategies a Killer can employ beyond the realm of "hold W and follow a Survivor until Killer A traveling at X speed manages to catch Survivor B traveling at Y speed." Hence my belief that there is a skill issue at play here.
You want my advice for how to play your mains?
Legion
Add-Ons: Etched Ruler & Legion Pin (alt. Defaced Smiley Pin or Stab Wounds)
Perks: Hysteria, Genetic Limits, & your choice of 2 perks
Win Condition: Take advantage of LOS blockers and misdirection to leverage the Oblivious status effect, and down unsuspecting Survivors when they believe you are not nearby. DO NOT commit to chase unless all Survivors are injured, you can quickly force pallet drops, or you have lethal frenzy.
Wraith
Add-Ons: Windstorm & Boneclapper (alt. Coxcombed Clapper, Swift Hunt, or All Seeing)
Perks: Fearmonger, Sloppy Butcher*, Nurse's, & perk of your choice
*Can replace Sloppy with Blind Warrior Add-On
Win Condition: Hit N' Run early game, unless you know you can down someone quickly--conditioning the Survivors to believe you leave just as soon as you appear. Mid-to-late game injure survivors, cloak, then stay nearby and ambush them when they drop guard. DO NOT commit to any chase that won't result in destroying a god pallet or a quick down.
SM & Knight
I can't advise you on either of these two killers, as I played both to adept and then never again. From what I know about them, however, they aren't chase Killers so they don't really concern themselves with MFT. They both have Haste add-ons, which I assume are must picks already.
Ghost Face, Myers, and Oni are my mains. I truly believe all 3 of them have been buffed by all of the changes/updates that have been put out this past year. Ghost Face especially, considering he just received a literal buff--Killer has never been easier for GF.
These aren't "the best Killers" by any means, but they all have things in their kit that allow them to bypass MFT.
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@AetherBytes said:
For starters, don't chase them. Unless you have the mobility to catch up with them, it's fruitless whether they are running MFT or not. Follow them long enough to push them off whatever gen they were on, break line of sight if able, and then peel to another gen/survivor.
So you want me to go full skull merchant than?
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461633#Comment_3461633
So summary is you want killers do what most survivors hate.
Tunnel, slug, camp, 3-gen and play only high tier killers.
Just tryhard as much as you can to counter a single perk. Seems right...
The more y'all respond, the more I think you've never played DBD and only watch content creators play it.
If both of these responses are genuine, with serious consideration of the concepts I've brought forward, than MFT is just one giant skill issue.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461367#Comment_3461367
Please, tell my how I can use my brain to catch up to a survivor holding W?
For starters, don't chase them. Unless you have the mobility to catch up with them, it's fruitless whether they are running MFT or not. Follow them long enough to push them off whatever gen they were on, break line of sight if able, and then peel to another gen/survivor.
Unless they are taking you straight towards a 3-gen or an area you know multiple Survivors will be in, you're wasting your time following any Survivor holding W across the map IF you are not also using that opportunity to gain intel about what gens are being worked on and where other Survivors are located.
If they heal, they either burned a limited resource (medkit) or you just learned about the location of a 2nd Survivor--valuable intel--and you delayed them from completing the objective. If they don't heal, they are vulnerable the next time you get the drop on them. Since you're not a mobility Killer, you most likely are Stealth or Anti-Loop, both of which will allow you to make short work of an injured survivor sitting on a gen.
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461583#Comment_3461583
Or I can just tunnel them out... Does it count as adapt?
Would fall under evolve.
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461583#Comment_3461583
I'll remember this next time I slug
It's the survivors playing survivors who are weak to slugging
Okay, and? Did I whine to you about slugging recently or something? I don't get it...
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461486#Comment_3461486
Oh right, because going for "don't play killer who can't counter a meta perk" is such a great point for a discussion...
"Use a bad perk to counter perk that survivors might have" Another nice point, I wish survivors knew this before Ruin and noed were nerfed.
At least 75% of the Killer roster has a power that says "so what?" to 3% Haste.
If you are someone who is struggling against MFT and you are playing a Killer that is weak against MFT, what is so controversial about advising someone to play a Killer that is less affected by MFT?
Again... if you insist on playing a Killer that struggles to catch a Hasted survivor, what is so controversial about advising someone to use a perk that gives the Killer Haste?
This isn't rocket science.
When faced with a challenge, you can either adapt, evolve, or lose.
ADAPT: Rather than learning to improve, play a Killer that has an easier time against MFT.
EVOLVE: Rather than playing an easier Killer, learn how to maximize the one you're already playing.
LOSE: Do nothing reap what you sow.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461416#Comment_3461416
They are better than me by using a perk? Interesting theory...
Not what I said, but knock yourself out with that conclusion. Misrepresentation makes for great discussions, am I right?
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@Perpendicular said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461463#Comment_3461463
You started by saying you can’t mind game an LT tile?
Lmaooooooooooooolollooooolloolol that says it all 😂😂😂😂
XD
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461416#Comment_3461416
Pwyf loses a stack every single swing you make, and requires finding then losing the obsession to gain stacks, and caps at 3. I'm sorry but that is not a valid counter for a perk that's only conditions are "dont bring sprint burst" and "be injured." PWYF has some very niche builds it is good with (like tombstone myers) but its certainly not a hard counter to MfT
Honestly surprised someone with your experience would downplay PWYF like that.
There is no escaping a Killer with 15% Haste. You just lose, and you do so because the Killer looked at your teammate 3 times and walked away. You don't need to be running a gimmicky Tombstone Myers build to make PWYF look strong, that's just pouring salt on the wound.
@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461416#Comment_3461416
"Come on man, you are a terrible player, use mindgame at safe loop"
fait pour ça + espoir sur le PTB...putain : r/deadbydaylight (reddit.com)
It's comical that you would send this to me, thinking it is some sort of "smoking gun." Survivor in that video is running a perk that grants them a 3% Haste and a perk that grants them a 7% Haste, and you honestly want me to believe the perk that grants the 3% Haste is the problem? Get real.
Shall I send you all the clips in which I've seen Killers dunk on Survivors running MFT? Or would you prefer I just walk away from this thread?
Because I honestly couldn't care less if BHVR nerfed this perk into the ground. It's just a travesty watching people complain about game balance whilst displaying a novice-level understanding of gameplay.
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461367#Comment_3461367
Ye of course, in the killer roster all killers have a power to close up distance with the survivors 😂
Maybe devs could stop hating the killer players and think about their enjoyment of the game instead of giving the over-broken perks to survivors :)
And FYI, a safe loop is a loop where there is no mindgame and guess what, the game is full of safe loop.
Just imagine a perk that, after 1 successfull hit on a survivor, you get a 3% speedboost (as killer) everytime you chase this survivor :). I guess you would hate it isn't it ?
DbD is all about timing and a perks as made for this break all timings :
- the corner you could not reach ? No worry, MFT is here and now you can reach it
- the pallet you could not reach ? MFT
- the window you could not reach ? MFT
- you have lithe ? no worry MFT stacks with it
In DbD, everytime you reach a pallet or a window, it adds 20 seconds time of free chase. MFT grants you the possibility to reach those pallets/windows maybe at least 2 times more for each survivor. If all 4 have MFT, it is just 160 seconds of free chase time, no skill involved, just hold W.
The perk is so strong that the synergie with gen rush perks is insane :
- it is better to stay injured as with the sped boost you can hold a killer as long as if you had 2 health states -> you save healing time that you then use to gen rush
- resilience activated the whole game (faster vault speed as well, increasing even more the global faster everything efficiency)
- prove thyself
In one week, all trials will be composed of 4 MFT survivors.
If you want to cry for free handouts instead of learning how to handle the challenges the game throws at you, you'll never be good at the game. Period.
Remind me, were we calling these "safe loops" BEFORE or AFTER the release of MFT? And if BEFORE, how has MFT made them any safer?
Have you heard of Play With Your Food? Do you know how much Haste that can grant?
Then you just go and pull out random numbers, as if pallet economy, dead zones, and mindgames aren't a thing.
...all while pretending that you are forced to play a Killer who does not have a counter to MFT.
I mean come on man... just admit that you're not that great at the game, you have no interest in becoming better at the game, and you feel you deserve to beat people who are better than you at the game.
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Alternatively, Killers could just use their brain and/or their power to catch Survivors, instead of following their exact pathing and rely on math to win them the game.
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When creating an argument against a perk, I would advise you start by listing it's problems first, expound on those issues second, and then provide context third.
I know your title is "attempting to counter arguments," but if Made for This is really an issue, you shouldn't have to counter any arguments. You can just lay out the facts and your findings into a persuasive essay that articulates how Made for This moves beyond being useful and enters the territory of being oppressive.
You've countered, what I believe to be, the worst arguments in favor of Made for This. It is difficult for me to enter this conversation when it doesn't feel like you are looking at the bigger picture.
Just my two cents.
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@Zmald_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454964#Comment_3454964
I had such a good response typed up but the forums said eat dirt and deleted it when I tried to post(consider this a mini revision)😭
Anyway I appreciate your response and you have great points. I'll try and sum what I wrote.
I noticed you said the map changes hurt what are universally considered the best/high tier killers in the game and while that is true, killers like Deathslinger, Twins, Trickster, Pinhead, Myers, Cannibal, and Singularity may be negatively affected.(Not that they are terrible killers, but they're powers suffer in maps with clutter)
Now, I think it's fine for BHVR to try to add variety so DBD does not become stale and repetitive. Though something to be realized is clutter might not be the best way to go about it, but there could be arguments made that clutter can be positive or negative.
Also the "map design" and "too many safe pallets" arguments aren't something I'm ready to jump into, frankly game design is already difficult and multiplayer balance even more so.
Having to make a new map and killer every other month or so, where everyone can be satisfied is almost impossible and credit where credit is due this chapter is unique and interesting.
What this post was meant to accomplish was to bring awareness to this "trend" I'm starting to notice and discuss what it could potentially mean for gameplay. You made a more comprehensive view point of this idea which I think is well written so I appreciate your time, thanks.
Bye Stinkers.
I think your original response came through, eventually!
The design direction of the game is obviously up to BHVR, but I think the community does have some say in how successful that design is executed. It's not for either one of us to say what is the "right" map design choice, but as someone with a vested interested in game design--particularly environment/level design--I feel I'm able to shed some light on why these choices are being made.
If the community chooses to reject this cluttered, claustrophobic map design, it doesn't matter how well the maps are designed--the consumer disagrees with the core design intent. At that point, BHVR needs to decide if they want to commit to changing how people play and understand DBD, or if they want to continue creating content that conforms to current standard.
It appears to me that BHVR is trying to change the flow of the game, fundamentally. We are very early in that development so the pushback is to be expected, until more development is made.
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I think people have become complacent with playing the game one specific way, and BHVR is actively trying to add variety and/or explore other ways to play.
The Killers most hurt by these map changes are universally considered the best Killers in the game. I don't particularly see an issue with lowering the skill ceiling on the top Killers through map design, especially when doing so raises the skill ceiling for other Killers on the roster. These map changes/designs are buffs to Stealth/Hit N' Run Killers.
Additionally, players have been calling on BHVR to improve their map design for years now. "Too many safe pallets," and "too many infinites," are the most common complaints. It feels like BHVR is prepping for a global reduction in looping resources across the board, by offering stealth as a necessary strategy Survivors need to employ throughout a match. The increased clutter makes this viable.
The ideal Survivor game would probably look like this:
- 25% of time repairing gen
- 25% of time being altruistic
- 25% of time stealthing
- 25% of time in chase
Presently, the ideal Survivor game is this:
- 33% of time repairing gen
- 33% of time being altruistic
- 33% of time in chase
...but because being altruistic doesn't really take that long, and some people can make chases go on forever, it looks like:
- 80% of time repairing gen
- 15% of time being altruistic
- 5% of time in chase
OR
- 85% of time in chase
- 10% of time repairing gen
- 5% of time being altruistic
Stealth is a really healthy gameplay element to push Survivor and Killer towards, so long as it is not made the most important element of the game (else the game becomes a boring affair of hide-n-go-seek). It is rather high-risk, high-reward for Survivor, because being found means handing the Killer a free health state and starting chase with significantly less distance than if they just took off running.
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I haven't been playing DBD, but it sounds like Singularity got the Plague treatment--a power that wholey depends on Survivor interaction (or lack thereof) for value.
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Hope is clearly the problem in the clip you shared.
I really wish people would stop complaining about the new perk, which has been introduced with a relatively moderate haste boost, and instead look at the perks that synergize with it.
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Last time I played Billy, I tried to chainsaw a pallet, and I "hit an obstacle" instead. :)
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448344#Comment_3448344
Sorry let me be more specific.
It's not all survivors, just most of the ones defending that side on this thread, including OP. I work under the pretense that someone is reasonable until they prove otherwise. They proved otherwise imo.
OP was adamant about specifically punishing killers regardless of what opinions, suggestions, solutions, ect. were brought up to them. Not changing things so its not necessary, not helping killers in situations where they realistically need to, not also gettign rid of the risk factors that make slugging the better choice. No, specifically and only punishing killers. It's clearly spiteful at least in some degree or they are heavily survivor biased (name checks out).
They are still holding this "hooks are the main objective" despite multiple others expressing its not with support from the MMR, the games code, and the devs themselves.
I told them what the objective is, and what you want it changed to are 2 different things, they clearly didn't listen given their more recent post. For what its worth I do think it should be changed to hooks, but that's not what it currently is.
I said what is currently a valid tactic and what you don't like and want it changed to are 2 different things. Didn't care.
Me: "Wanting it changed and not liking it is fine, saying people aren't allowed to play that way (currently) is different and not true."
To them, slugging makes you a horrible person and its morally wrong to do because survivors don't like it. No if ands or buts, it's not a way to win the game, it's abuse.
Hook dead zone? Survivors ran themselves to the corner? "Doesn't matter let them wiggle out". Want to avoid the 4% or hatch? "No you need to risk it". Skip the wait and just kill the survivors instantly? "I know I said that the time spent on the ground was too long and thus a problem, but that gives the killer a win so no". (paraphrasing here)
People have been bringing up issues and why killers slug and everything has been shot down.
If you didn't read most of OP's post you really shouldn't be assuming they weren't acting this or that way or hold this or that opinion when they expressed those in their other comments. Same for mine.
Here I'll quote their supposed "solution" after this entire thread.
OP: "I think if a killer slugs the entire team and leaves them all on the ground for more than a minute then the entity kills the killer and the survivor team wins."
That sounds wild to me, especially when they have not considered giving killers anything to help against survivors who will easily abuse it.
I'm neutral, I want the game to be better for both sides, I see this as a problem and have suggested ways to fix it and tried to have a discussion in this thread, along with many others. They're not being receptive.
It's not a partisan issue, I specifically said they're not receptive to the other side when approached on ways to fix it for both sides.
It sounds like I walked into a discussion that has shifted away from, or was intentionally misleading about, it's original message. I apologize for taking you as one to paint others with a broad brush.
I followed the discussion when it was originally created, weeks ago, and did not recall the conversation devolving into the absurdity you describe.
To OP's credit, they spent 2 full pages trying to keep respondants on-topic, as this discussion became increasingly inundated with whataboutism from people who disagree with OP on the basis of "your side isn't allowed to get nice things unless my side gets nice things."
It looks like once you prodded OP on their thesis, you found some skeletons hiding in the closet. ...or just someone who is inexperienced with game design/theory. Either way, you're both advocating for something to be done, and I find it comical that such conversations are hindered by those who cry "what about me?"
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448263#Comment_3448263
No it's not OP's point. Op blame people who are doing that, trying to throw shame on people doing it and refuse to acknowledge this as a valid tactic and, require killers to care about OP fun. Is the same thing as the "survivor rulebook" or the "tunneling problem", blame others for a valid tactics bringin the only argunent that is "not fun for me" and completly disregards the other side point of view.
As i said, for me, chase a survivor for 2 minutes is not fun, shall i do expect bhvr change this to make it easier ?Shall i blame people who run aways instead of receive the hit ? No, i should learn how to play better or, change game.
The title of this thread is "this kind of slugging shouldn't be possible." In other words, "developers, do something about this."
The body of their post goes on to state "this is why we need basekit abilities to deal with these situations."
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. OP is calling on BHVR to do something about this.
Forgive me for not reading all of OP's replies in this 5-page discussion, but if they later went on to scrutinize players for this behavior, those are supplementary opinions which exist only as commentary, and are not to be confused with OP's intentions here.
@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447995#Comment_3447995
Hard to do that when survivors refuse to give killers anything to actually help the reasons why they might be slugging, or even acknowledge those reasons to begin with, and are tunnel versioned on getting their way with no compromises.
They don't want solutions for both sides, they want the killers to suffer and lose because they don't play how they want them to regardless of why they are doing it.
Anything to try and balance things out for the killer side gets shot down immediately and aggressively.
Can't even get it through to them that currently the killers goal is not hooks, but kills; nor that under these rules that slugging is a valid (although unfun) tactic.
How are we going to talk about changing the system when they don't even care to understand or acknowledge the current one? They are dead set on "no the killer must be in the wrong, they need to be punished".
This is a gross overgeneralization of the community, that is neither constructive nor cooperative.
For starters, this is hypocrisy. You are guilty of the very complaint you lob against "survivors." My comment is completely neutral--I've merely observed that this community continues to argue about features that are notoriously unejoyable for at least one side--yet you've leapt off of it like a springboard designed to dunk on "survivors."
What's up with that?
Why are you making this out to be a partisan issue?
Do you really think someone will want to have a discussion with you if you're constantly working under the pretense that someone who disagrees with you must then also hold opinions A, B, C, and D?
Do you not see how destructive that is?
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448251#Comment_3448251
Fine, then remove all the pallets and vault in the game because for the killer chasing someone around a pallet or shack is not fun.
Are you ok with this change right ? I mean, you just said the game should be fun for both side no matter what so...
It's BHVR that should make the game enjoyable for both side, it's not one side responsability to make the game enjoyable for the other side
It's BHVR that should make the game enjoyable for both side, it's not one side responsability to make the game enjoyable for the other side
Now you get it. This is exactly OP's point.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448217#Comment_3448217
But it's fun for the killer.
You see, until you make a valid argument other than "this is not fun for me" this topic will never end. Fun is a subjective matter, what is fun or unfun FOR you doesn't apply to everyone.
it's the same thing as the "survivor rulebook", someone invented this idiocy and someone expects it to be respected otherwise "you0re playing unfair". And who says it? Why should the killer follow a made up thing created only because people sucks so bad at this game they need to an excuse to justify their low skill ?
You don't like to be slugged ? There's already the counterplay, it's called "learn how to loop"
The valid argument here is that a game should be fun for all involved, particularly when it requires multiple willing participants/opponents to take place.
If a game can't be fun for both sides, it might as well be single-player.
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I find it funny that we still need to have discussions about things that are incredibly unenjoyable, and people still feel the need to debate them as if finding a solution isn't the best way forward.
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@Crowman said:
June 2021 was Nemesis release, a massive ip released at the start of summer. If course dbd looks bad when you remove context and compare it to the absolute peak.
However If you look at April/May 2022 and April/May 2023 you see the player base is around the same amount. The game is doing just fine.
There's nothing that needs to be addressed for rage quitters. They're only going to find new reasons to be babies. They just need grow up and accept that not every pvp game will go their way out find single player games to enjoy instead.
Anyways I'm done humoring you. I got far better things to do than to engage someone who wants to defend baby behavior.
If we look at May 2022 - May 2023 we still see a downward trend. I don’t know why you’re trying to pretend it’s not there when the image is in front of us.
You’re totally clueless, though. You’ve zero plan for reducing the amount of rage quitters in game, and you think I’m the one defending “baby behavior.”
I’m the only one in this conversation with a sensible way forward.
Your solution is to do nothing.
Actually hilarious.
Hold on, I found your picture online:
This is too good mate. Oh my, you really have humored me this time.
Rage quitting is at an all-time high, and your plan is to do nothing. That is pure gold.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, yeah?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447441#Comment_3447441
The game isn't dying, because the daily active playerbase is stable. If the game was truly dying, the player base would be falling but it is not.
People who throw a fit because things don't go the way they want in a pvp game, simply need to find a different game. Ruining matches for people who actually want to play isn't the statement you think it is.
Ruining matches for people who actually want to play isn't the statement you think it is.
And yet the problem will continue to persist until the reasons these players are rage quitting is addressed. At which point, that must mean that rage quitters ARE making a statement, no? Or do we just continue to ignore them until the game dies because no one enjoys playing a game where someone quits every match?
Are we supposed to just close our eyes and wish the rage quitters away? Is that your proposal?
The game isn't dying, because the daily active playerbase is stable.
This is DBD from May 2016 to June 2021 (Upward Trend)
This is DBD from June 2021 to Present (Downward Trend)
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447423#Comment_3447423
The game is hardly dying and people being babies and rage quitting while playing the game are doing nothing but hurting people just trying to play the game.
If people really believe that the game has some fundamental issue the devs aren't addressing, then stop playing. Rage quitting matches still counts for active player count. Not playing reduces the player count.
Safe to assume you've no substantial rebuttle to my earlier comment then? Okay.
Let me just provide the nth argument to this discussion real quick, so you can totally ignore all the other valid points brought forth, and take another shot at invalidating an attempt to help you understand a point of view you seem willfully ignorant towards.
The longer BHVR leaves core issues in the game, the more likely the following two actions are to take place:
1) Players leave DBD for other things.
2) Players continue to rage quit in protest of features they disagree with/do not enjoy.
If the former occurs, well what do you know, the game dies. If the latter occurs, it results in an increase of player frustration AND eventually those players leave.
Right, so tell me again how the game ISN'T dying if these issues continue to go unchecked?
Players leaving the game does LESS for game health than players rage quitting. Why? Because ragequitters tell the developers WHERE the problem is. When people leave, the developers have no data to indicate why people are not enjoying their game. At least rage quitters are pointing BHVR straight towards the problem.
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@appleas said:
One person decided to spoil the game for the rest of their 3 teammates just because they didn’t like the Killer and people are still going back and forth on this?
I’m sure those 3 teammates would prefer that Ada to not even play the game than waste everyone’s time like this. No one cares if that Ada is making a point or not, all they care is that Ada just wasted their time for no good reason.
Ada is the symptom of a bigger problem.
That is what this conversation boils down to. I'm sure someone here will be more than thrilled to remark on what an over-dramatic analogy I'm making, but that is 1:1 what is going on right now in DBD. The game is dying because of a few core flaws, and up until now BHVR has only attempted to treat it's symptoms.
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@LeFreezy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447145#Comment_3447145
Sure, Ada's behaviour will certainly change game for the better or will definitely influence some positive changes
I hope this comment finally gets through because I wasn't able to send it several times lol
I assume this is sarcasm, so I'm just replying to let you know that the comment finally went thru (:
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447145#Comment_3447145
It's literally just a video game. If the video game is too much for someone to handle, then they should go play something. No one is forcing you to play DBD and ruin other's experiences, because you want to be a baby.
And comparing a video game to the civil rights movement is in complete bad taste.
You're downplaying the significance of video games in daily life for the sake of your argument. The statement "it's just a video game" is wildly out of touch.
ExpressVPN’s study on gaming habits shows that gamers in their 30s are more addicted to video games than young adults.If we assume gamers age 26-55 are working 8 hours a day and sleeping 8 hours a night, we can see that a significant portion of the gamer population (US/UK) is spending most of their free time playing video games. Not to mention the fact that someone who is P100 most likely falls in the 24+ hours per week group--to this party, video games ARE their life.
If you can't empathize with someone who wants to improve the quality of their life, then you're just apathetic and that is the end of this conversation.
If I don't like PUBG, I can try Fortnite. If I don't like Fortnite, I can try Warzone. If I don't like Warzone, I can try Apex Legends.
If I don't like Valorant, I can try CSGO. If I don't like CSGO, I can try COD Search & Destroy. If I don't like S&D, I can try R6: Siege.
If I don't like Overwatch, I can try Paladins. If I don't like Paladins, I can try Team Fortress 2.
If I don't like League of Legends, I can try DOTA 2. If I don't like DOTA 2, I can try HotS. If I don't like HotS, I can try Smite.
If I don't like Dead by Daylight, I can try...? Nothing.
There is currently nothing comparable to DBD worth playing. Do you not see how that invalidates your "go play something else" suggestion? If they were interested in playing something else, they would have moved on long ago. They are looking for something like DBD, but they can't find it, so they are doing what they can to improve the game in front of them.
BHVR has ignored the community and it's content creators on several issues for years now. This individual does not feel like their voice is being heard, so they are taking action in-game (be it conciously or sub-conciously) to let the developers know that they need to make a change.
Perhaps you don't like that I've placed you on the wrong side of history, with my civil rights analogy. Or perhaps the analogy was completely lost on you. Either way, let me rephrase in a way you should understand:
Walking away from problems = cringe
Standing for change = goated
Ada stands for change, therefore Ada is the GOAT.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447115#Comment_3447115
on the contrary it's a video game and if she doesn't like the direction of the game she can go play a different game.
@LeFreezy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447115#Comment_3447115
She can always uninstall and, thus, lower the playercount and stop funding BHVR by buying DLCs. That must be the definition of the protest?
Clearly she enjoys most of the game, otherwise she wouldn't have committed so much time to it (P100).
Asking someone to "go play something else" because they take issue with any part of the game is like telling Rosa Parks to take a taxi instead of the bus. That's like telling an American to move to Canada because they don't like US Healthcare. That's like telling someone to find a country that supports same-sex marriage instead of pushing their own government to legalize it. That's like telling someone to get a divorce because they've recently been fighting with their spouse.
When you become invested in any person, place, or thing, you commit to seeing it change for the better. If you walk away from something you once adored, be it a marriage, a friendship, a nation, a video game, etc., simply because "you no longer enjoy the direction it is heading," you are doing a great disservice to yourself and all involved.
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This is symptomatic of game health, and shouldn't be seen as anything more.
Ada is protesting the game's design. You can enlighten yourself by reading up on Ebert's Model of Escalation, Conflict Escalation, and the various studies that understand why protests turn violent.
There is nothing entitled about this behavior.
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@WashYourHands said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446443#Comment_3446443
why would anyone do that
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446490#Comment_3446490
Precisely.
We don't know how good basekit Blight is because WHY would you run that when he has all these crazy addons?
Self-imposed challenge.
When you become really good at something you enjoy, but the skill gap to your average opponent is so large that it becomes increasingly difficult to continue enjoying that particular thing, you find ways to handicap yourself so that you can continue to enjoy yourself.
I used to frequently face Blights running only Shadowborn & BBQ, with no add-ons, during Blight's heyday. This was PC-only lobbies, where the survivors were always sweating like it was a comp match, and the Blights were putting up a serious challenge.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445631#Comment_3445631
To my understanding the perk activates once you hold a depleted toolbox? Not when you make your last skillchecks.
It's just 99% your toolbox and using the last bit when you have to do anything else then working on a gen for a bit
You're right, that is what the perk's description suggests.
I can't recall now what the wording was before the 7.0.0 changes, but I understood the activating condition to be the moment the toolbox is recharged. Definitely doesn't sound like that is the case.
It sounds, then, like picking up a toolbox that has been depleted via Franklin's would immediately activate Scavenger.
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@Halloulle said:
I've played dbd less and less lately - and when I did I soon remembered why. Last year around this time I easily clocked 60hrs/week as surv (yes, about 99.5% of my free time went to dbd) - now I'm at maybe 5-7hours per week. It does feel stale. And with everything that's added or changed it rather feels like the list of viable options is further reduced.
Now, tbf, I think Wesker is pretty fun to face and I do actually think he's pretty well designed. The other killers you mentioned... well, idk. I have a soft spot for the giant Turkey and the bird lady. Demo I rarely see, and if I do it's with his best addons.
Anyway, the point I actually want to address is this one: "And those survivors that stuck around and have knoweldge of this,form the SEAL SWF groups that terrorise the killers,by genrushing and picking the worst map offerings known to mankind.."
This is, imo, the core of the issue (dev-side things like map design, hook/gen spawn rng and bugs/exploits aside). The game is extremely beginner unfriendly. And especially toward survivor beginners. Ever since the basekit buffs last year, beginner killers do have a way easier time getting a quick start - while survs have it that much harder to get anything resembling a start. The skill curve is more like a massive wall on surv side. Few stick it out, I for sure know that about 90% of the people I played surv with over time and that weren't already heavily invested in the game stopped because the barrage of all the things to know and keep in mind and execute was too much to keep track of and the matches and results way too frustrating to continue (and 90% of the ones already heavily invested stopped because they got bored/frustrated with how copy-paste-y matches are - but that's besides the point here). The ones who do also seem to often have a particular very ambitious, competitive, almost obessive side to their personality; they just can't help but to grit their teeth and tough it out until they firgured out how to come out on top.
This results in two big camps with some vets somewhere in the middle; All the ones who never scaled the wall. The few who did. - And well, some who've played enough to sort of keep up with the ones who scaled the wall (or who've given up and play their own little game among the oens who didn't scale the wall).
But if you have two groups so far apart (and this to a large degree coincides with swf vs soloQ, I would assume. Simply because it's easier to tough the start out in a group) how on earth do you balance anything? If you keep nerfing survivor the one group will be absolutely destroyed. If you buff surv/nerf killer the other group will turn a match in their own playground with the killer being their plaything.
Balancing for "top fifteen percent" or sth of the likes is all good and dandy - but the game still has to be playable (and a game is only actually playable if it's enjoyable) for the remaining 85% of players. Which it isn't in its current state.
I've a friend who dropped DBD after 3 games because it "required too much dictionary knowledge."
Three of us in our friend group have over 1k hours, and could coach him through the learning curve, be he couldn't be bothered. It's much more enjoyable for him to win a game on developed skill than just knowing more than his opponents.
This problem only gets worse with each chapter release
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445548#Comment_3445548
Its not true, the kill rate is nowhere near 100
We don't currently know the kill rate though, do we?
I also don't believe the kill rate needs to be "near 100" for @MikaelaWantsYourBoon 's comment to be inherently true. The last time we were given data, the kill rate had indeed gone up. Unless a new mechanic was introduced to help Killers sacrifice survivors in EGC, a rising kill rate should directly correlate with less gates being powered.
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@Bardon said:
The fact that it's now a multi-use perk is a huge buff to the perk and the 30 seconds is easy to work around - recharge it when you're running to the next gen or off to unhook or getting in the killer's face to draw a chase.
In all, this is an overall strenthening of the perk, just blocking the truly obnoxious use of it found in the PTB
oh yeah, let me just pray to Mathieu real quick for a skill check just before I hop off my gen.
That's worked so well for me with Autodidact...
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If BHVR wants me to "plan accordingly and spend this [debuff] time elsewhere," why can't they keep this perk at single-use and just let me press a button to recharge my toolbox?
That way the I can "plan" to recharge my toolbox when I am going for unhook, healing, in chase, or doing totems.
Increase the debuff duration if need be. idgaf.
Just don't leave everything up to RNG. ffs.
Your design doesn't match your intention, BHVR.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443106#Comment_3443106
Yes i know there are people that play to win. That was in the game around the first couple of months i started playing. However it wasnt constantly every game that i play like it is now. I dont mind losing i just want to have fun. I had a game where someone dced vs a blight and i got one good long chase with him and i was satisfied. We lost with 2 gens left. I had one friend who was begging me to play some matches even thought i didnt want to but i did because she is my friend. First game we got a nurse slugging at 4 gens. I did go into that ttvs chat and give them ggs tho so theres that
yeah, I genuinely think it is a matchmaking issue.
I don't believe BHVR designed their matchmaker to create evenly matched lobbies. Patrick told us long ago that the only thing matchmaking is trying to do is make sure you win every once and a while. BHVR is emulating the pathological effects of gambling--many of us (particularly solo/duo players) are gambling every time we queue into another game.
Rather than enjoying the game for what it is, we become addicted to the "big win," which is that dopamine release we receive every few games when the matchmaker feeds us a lobby we actually belong in.