JustAnotherNewbie
JustAnotherNewbie
About
- Username
- JustAnotherNewbie
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
They've been saying for a while they're trying to bring status icons for survivors (if someone is working on a gen or getting chased etc.)
I hope they get here fast, though they still lack agency imo, a ping system would be a better alternative as we could also communicate intention.
Earlier I lost a game on survivor that could have easily been a 3escape because our Kate decided to leave and our Nea decided to try to save me and this has also happened to me. if people could be like "Save teammate?" and they knew the answer was no maybe they could also escape instead of getting themselves killed.
-
They don't do it cause they find it fun, they do it cause they want to win. Winning is the fun part for them.
-
@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356473/killers-should-stop-caring-about-survivors-fun
I don't understand, most broken way possible? Switch this around to survivor dude and listen to yourself lol
Cope harder. 55% of players who are solo cannot play in this way. Killers don't have anyone to rely on. Maybe take a look in the mirror.
-
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X2TEHA6BEO5Y/image.png
Majestic place to be.
I personally prefered last week when there were 5 threads about survivors on the front page, maybe Christmas we'll have something similar when people will have more free time? Who knows, we'll see.
-
@Sycamore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280177#Comment_3280177
Next match I am going to hook all the survivors twice, and then open the exit gates
Maybe they'll like you well enough that they'll stay, don't you think?
-
@Sycamore said:
I opened this thread right after I gave the survivor that ran me 3 gens - the hatch.
Next time killer tries to give me hatch I'll just die so their MMR goes higher.
-
@Chaos999 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279951#Comment_3279951
Actually, kinda. The previous one drew significantly more attention, xD.
Nevertheless I don't find either more productive than the other.
Trying to Reach a concensus on something like this is an exercise in futility.
Nevertheless I understand both povs.
To be honest we're about tied. It only has one more post than mine currently.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280119#Comment_3280119
To further this: the counterplay to a killer doing this is to have a second survivor with you. Once the killer initiates the block, someone needs to stand on the other side of the killer to block them while the rescuer circles behind the hook to the other side. Then there's a survivor between the killer and the rescuer, which prevents the killer from grabbing the unhooker. Complete coinflip as to whether a solo teammate will know how to do this.
I know what you mean, we just didn't co-ordinate well. There were teammates there on the other side but they were too far away, so I think at that point I wanted to trade maybe.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279957#Comment_3279957
Highly doubt it's intended, but I've never heard one way or the other from a dev. There's something weird that happens between the survivor hitbox and the hook when the rescuer cancels the attempt.
Wish they'd address some stuff.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280050#Comment_3280050
I will in other threads, you became boring.
You just posted here to tell me I'm boring, dude please. Stop making feel more important than i really am.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280042#Comment_3280042
lmao you are peak entitlemend
Keep posting please.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280035#Comment_3280035
I see you haven't met Ghostface yet.
But he plays solo survivor and swf at least half the time.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280036#Comment_3280036
i also play soloQ and swf survivor
Does it look like I'll take a killer mains reply seriously?
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280028#Comment_3280028
i have yet to see a killer teabagging...
You play killer. It would be weird if there were 2 killers in a game.
-
@Brimp said:
I already do that. I play for my fun and if that makes me a "bad person" when im supposed to be versing a team... idk what to say. I don't go into card game and handicap myself by throwing away my best cards.
You're the worst person there is. You're going to hell. Face-camping Bubba is going to heaven.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279974#Comment_3279974
ever thought maybe you take all of this way too serious? there is no need for some form of behave code really...
Bro, I've never asked killers to follow some code of behavior. I don't even think tea-bagging is toxic. You might be confusing me for someone else.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279960#Comment_3279960
no you are cynical about it indeed.
However i decide whether or not im going to play "nice" or not. I usually dont cause its only a game and people who take it personal should maybe not stick to pvp in general..
but noone will actually listen to you, people are just gonna play how they want. Wanna sue us for that? what do you wanna do? cant do nothing about it.
Keep posting and keeping this thread relevant. Killers who are on the fence but pick a side finally. You're just doing me a favor bringing this thread in the top. Almost as much of a favor as if you were following my advice.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279951#Comment_3279951
couldnt stand that post could you? had to go out your way to make this cynical one..
Ugh, you do know what cynical means right? Perhaps you mean sarcastic? And no it's serious. Just so I don't have to write to every killer's thread about having to run 4 slowdowns and tunneling and camping because survivors gen-rush and they're high MMR I made this thread instead.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279850#Comment_3279850
If you get ######### on in CoD, you can still get kills. You can still do well individually even if you lose.
If you get a good Nurse or a facecamping Bubba, good ######### luck trying to do well individually.
That's actually a real issue with the game. In most games you can play the game from beginning to end even if you do bad, here you can't, and getting slugged or facecamped also means you aren't even playing anymore.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
It has been a thing for a long time. Your hitbox can slide during the grab cancel animation, so the killer can "bump" your hitbox out of the unhook zone and proceed to body block you.
Is it intended though or a bug? I don't understand, not that bugs can't become features ofc.
-
@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356473/killers-should-stop-caring-about-survivors-fun
Ah yes, I enjoy playing to win with 4 gen slowdowns, and not my fun build I use
That really sucks, sorry but you're on my killer blacklist now. Eww playing for gun.
-
@Chaos999 said:
Is this like the second part of the other similar post?
Yeah, it actually is. How do you find? Does it follow the sequel curse or nah?
-
I'm biased. I like Nea's. Usually they're at least trying to be useful and can be rather daring after all those videos they've watched.
-
@Pulsar said:
Not like this changes anything for the current Killer population.
They need a little bit more encouragement I feel. Now they have a survivor's permission, they don't need anymore reasons like bully squads or gen rushers.
-
@Jarky said:
You can - you even get the prompt at this moment:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5NCEMN54V0VK/image.png
The issue is, the Deathslinger's hitbox then blocks the area you'd be unhooking from, so he's blocking your ability to unhook from that particular angle.
I got that before he swung, afterwards I couldn't get the prompt. That's why it was so weird.
-
@Phasmamain said:
You’re only real objective as killer is to hook and kill survivors. Obviously defending gens too but in that case survivors have to unhook
Survivor is easier but has only gotten harder as time went on. Solo queue is in its hardest state at the moment and is the reason a lot of new players leave
They can just slug, don't even need to hook honestly and the game can end much faster that way despite having to wait to bleed out (this is where the Mori rework would be of some use)
-
@Huge_Bush said:
Or they could do the opposite to spite you and start failing miserable so the kill rate could plummet and killers can receive another general buff.
Could they really?
-
@hiken said:
did they ever care about it? the game is a tunnel camp fest every game so i havent noticed killers caring for survivor fun in a loooooooooooooooooooooong time
Sometimes they feel guilty before they go to bed or they come here trying to justify why they play that way and ask for survivor's validation.
Admittedly not every killer I encounter plays that way, but it is a strategy that is quite strong against solo and to counter you mostly need communication and co-ordination, which we are still waiting for solo survivor.
-
@Johnny_XMan said:
Oh yeah play for the sake of playing as boring as possible, quite the opposite of fun. Which is the entire reason I play.
Thanks but no thanks.
I don't disagree with you, but if more people played that way, then it would become more apparent how strong those playstyles and perk combos are. Right now it's an open secret.
-
i like killers who unapologetically use the best strategies to offer much more. Really tired of killers trying to be "nice". Just play like your family is being held hostage. AT least that way solo survivor can either adapt or BHVR will do something. Honestly the best thing a killer could do is simply use the most broken stuff there is.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I don't remember there ever was a sale on characters for shards (auric cells only). But since I usualy own everyone I could be wrong.
Also I would probably wait until the winter event starts, I don't think it will be any sooner than that. I would bet around end of the year or during Xmas period while winter event is present.
But we have no official date. Also sales usualy happen suddenly (no planned date for that, they just suddenly happen).
There was a shard discount during the Halloween event and I think I heard during the anniversary.
-
@Nirgendwohin said:
to look at the positive things. what's fun in this game?
I enjoy looping as survivor. what is bhvr doing? building a killer that only allows you to hold W at loops.
I enjoy mindgaming as survivor. what is bhvr doing? brought even more aura reading into the game, nerved iron will.
Oh i guess bhvr killed all what is fun for me as survivor. Ok i guess i have to sit on gens as survivor and dont have fun.
since the last killer release the atmosphere on both sides has fallen into the abyss. on all social media you only hear negative things about the game. i think decision makers at bhvr should start asking themselves what makes their game worth playing and if the line they are following is as good as they think it is.
It's true that they seem to be forcing a more gen oriented meta, with all the gen perks we received this chapter and the last one (for survivor) and it's true that chases are the most fun part of survivor, but if you read around, most killers here don't like it and complain a lot about "second chance perks" and even if those are nerfed to the ground there's still the other exhaustion perks to complain about since they prolong chases (there have been complaints at times about Spring Burst even).
For some people winning is the most fun part, lol and winning through controlling objective is safer and easier currently than it is to deal with every survivor individually.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278284#Comment_3278284
nice try, but i alredy said in one of my posts how i might care a little less for soloQ than killer, cause my overall expectations are lower. Just show me a post where i said soloQ is in a good state though.
You said that, doesn't mean there aren't other killers claiming solo is fine.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278277#Comment_3278277
a trapper game where he played basement and got a 4k and a trapper game where he played him the conservative way but got also 1 or 2 k are not the same, yet they both add towards the killrate. Now, aside of maining him or low mmr lobbys, trapper is a struggle against good survivors, i think there is no denying in that. So if you have a ton of 0k games but also some couple of 4ks by the amount of players this game has, mains and players that just picked him up counted together, their kilrrate doesnt say anything.
its like those statistics that measure how rich a country is, taking the millionaires and poor people ALL into account and calculating the incomes of each famillys together. So with a couple of rich people, it still can be deicisive how wealthy the average locals are.
If you are not good at a killer and the survivors are better than you, then you should not be 3-4k that game, on ANY killer. But that doesn't happen because mistakes are weighed differently on different stages of the game.
What does conservatively playing Trapper even mean?
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278272#Comment_3278272
the amount of my posts say nothing about how good or bad i am as a killer player. It could even be i never touched killer, only playing survivor and just act as if. You'd have no way to know.
Same can be said about killers claiming they're having fun in solo and it's in a good state.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278258#Comment_3278258
yeah i can play freddy also 10 times better than nurse. but these killrates still dont mean anything, you just provided so many scenarios that are not taken into account when we talk about killers killrates. I see it more as a "how many people play that killer"-rate than "this killer is that strong"-rate.
How are they not taken into account? Those players influence the killrates. They appear in the all MMR killrates, what are you saying? The only matches they don't take into account is the ones with the DC, which depending on the time the teammate DCed is not the same. Someone DCing after their first down is different than someone DCing when they're about to get hooked for the third time. In the first case they've doomed their team unjustly so of course the following match won't be representative of how the game would have continued if he played normally, in the second case that persons has already been useful. If the person in the second case DC's that match won't count although it's not much different from playing it out and him dying, he was going to die anyway, but now this match is not counted in the killrates despite the DC in this case not making any difference.
In the first case though it has a bigger impact for the team.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277781#Comment_3277781
so you dont think trapper is outdated and you agree sadako is stronger than nurse? I assume they just picked up trapper, but saying because he has 57% killrate he is a 'strong' killer aint true at all. I just try to figure out what people actually think. Either we go by killrates and so nurse is not the strongest killer or we dont and then we can take a look at the killers individually and measure how strong they are.
Sadako and Nurse have about the same winrate in high MMR.
Sadako is much better than people give her credit for but she has a way of making a lot of distance with her TV's which is really important for killer (see also Dredge).
Nurse swaps most game mechanics other killers have to deal with with being a bit more skill intensive that's why she can have higher highs (Nurse slugging everyone within 5 mins or less) and the lowest lows (52% winrate for all MMRs).
Killers are all viable because they have over 55% killrate. Of course some are better than others, no one is debating that, but a person who is used to playing a killer that can bypass game mechanics survivors have (like say looping) or has no way to making distance because he has to walk everywhere is of course gonna be dumbfounded when trying to play Trapper. Trapper has no passive slowdown to his abilities unlike say Pinhead and Pig. So you cannot make up for time being lost on him, you really need to understand the fundamentals of the game to be effective and relying more on game knowledge because mechanically he has nothing to offer. Even Trapper can be snowbally if he gets an early basement hook, good luck saving that guy if killer has trapped the basement.
This is usually again true for most games. There are characters who are there to be an easy introduction to the game and make you learn the fundamentals. Usually they're middle of the road as far as their power is concerned. If you cannot play the fundamentals well of course you're gonna underperform with them or if you're used to playing someone who can bypass core mechanics.
Your example is like me saying, I got 4k as Trapper, how does he have any problems? It's really silly.
If I managed to run a Nurse for 3 minutes does that mean the killer is trash or that the player playing them was outplayed?
I just got 3E against a Blight on Dead Dog saloon with compound 33 and adept perks. Regardless, that map was in his favor cause it's tiny and we still did all gens and could have saved the teammate who died if we weren't solo. Is that enough proof that Blight is bad because the guy playing him isn't running the most optimal build or even know how to play him?
I mean you said it yourself, the guy had never played Trapper. Are we now gonna take that into account when talking about killrates? Trapper is performing worse than most killers, but at the same time he is performing way better than before. Could he get some tuning to make him better? Yeah probably. And I say this because of the stats BHVR provided for us. Your example is an anecdote.
-
@scenicpickle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278186#Comment_3278186
sad times :( too bad my friends dont like this game but i guess i dont blame them
I also try to get my friends to play haha. Regardless if they focus on solo survivor I think something can be done about it. Those status icons can't come fast enough for solo.
-
The matchmaking doesn't work most of the time because there aren't enough players for it to work or else the queue times would be a lot longer to compensate for quality matchmaking. So yeah what you are saying is true, I could show a game where I had a Meg who did nothing all game but hide, she made it last but got caught and she still had less BP than the guy who died first...just imagine how bad she was. That game was perfectly winnable if only her spot had been filled by someone in my skillrange (I ain't even that good, just average at most). That's the matchmaking ######### up and it happens pretty often.
Is it frustrating? Yes, you simply have to understand that for the most part it can't be any other way with the numbers DBD currently has
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276888#Comment_3276888
Not that they never get downed. Just not every 30 seconds, which the people who complain about this perk do. I don't get why they can't just use the OP loops in 90% of these maps to run the killer for 2 gens each. No guarantee that there will be a weak link either, and even if there was, it's going away with this team MMR thing. I've tried leaving people who gave me trouble chasing; I just have to chase them later or one of their teammates who are equally capable.
Not every map has OP loops and not every survivor is found near OP loops, some killers even refuse to chase you if you're close a good loop especially if it's closer to the end of the game and 1 or 2 gens are left and they've already identified their 3-gen. Also as a solo if I get chased later I have no idea which resources have been used, so I can make the mistake of running towards the part of the map that has been used up. (I don't have Kate). As the game goes on it is simply easier for the killer to down survivors, therefore Eruption also gets stronger cause it's naturally easier to trigger and it can apply to multiple gens.
Having a weak link isn't crazy uncommon with the matchmaking system prioritizing quick matchmaking, it's just not always apparent because there may be no prestige 1 Claudette/Dwight/Meg/David.
-
@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277730#Comment_3277730
we just completely destroyed him in soloQ, 2 of us kept running into the same traps, one isnt a good looper (me).
You said in your first post the Trapper just picked up the killer.
I'm surprised instead of Trapper you didn't mention Nurse. You're not supposed to pick up a killer and do well with him (or are you?) especially if what he plays normally has nothing to do with Trapper's playstyle. If anything simple killers can shed light to a players weaknesses because they cannot bypass game mechanics such as looping or decision making regarding checking a gen or going back to hooked survivors etc, since for killers without a teleport those actions take longer.
Simple killers are all about the basics of the game and less the mechanics, you need to have good understanding of the game to make those work well. And this is true for many games, because usually a character that cannot do crazy things mechanically has to make up for it in macro. Skill intensive characters usually can reach higher highs (as in completely stomping) but also lower lows (completely sucking).
-
@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277589#Comment_3277589
so? what you said does not change the fact that killers get awarded with the disable of second chance perks even if they play bad all game. And perks like NOED can easily get them an easy kill in EGC.
So if we were to be truly fair and dont allow for comeback mechanics like hatch to exist, then killers shouldnt receive any benefit in EGC.
Killers receive benefits by default in EGC, see pallets. By the time survivors get to end game their only defensive resource has probably been used up trying to complete the gens and delaying the killers own objective. So if you did all 5 gens but you are out of pallets, the killer still benefits from you doing well. Healthstates can also count as resources.
They do say after all that killer is strongest at the end of the game and weakest at the start, no?
-
@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277723#Comment_3277723
That league example can translate to most types of games though. It's already half in the game as it stands, with most bad killers being m1 basic killers with little skill expression and Blight being the second best killer while also having the most skill expression. I do agree a lot of things in this game can't be compared to league just by the nature of their genres but there can most definitely be comparisons made in some areas.
DBD on this problem would be easier to compare to fighting games minus the mechanical difficulty. Fighting games have a lot of legacy players and are hard to get into, mostly because they are not popular games. So even if people wanna play against other people they cannot find a match and if they do the guy they are dealing with could be playing the game for 10 years already. In many fighting games if skill is to be considered you could as well be waiting over 30+ mins for a match and it can be especially bad for new players. So not only do you get stomped in the end, you also have to wait ungodly amounts of times to get into a match.
At least DBD only has the first problem (since it has more players than many fighting games) and the matches are formed fast. It cannot afford to have good matchmaking, the number of players just doesn't allow it. And people are coming out of covid, so less people are stuck inside now and less people will play video games in general or watch Netflix etc. Let's not forget about the global influence covid had and the inflated numbers video games and film subscription services got.
They had a nice idea by making the game free on Halloween weekend or at other items (ignoring the cheater problem) because the most popular games are games that are free to play already (league, overwatch 2, dota) but the question is how do they make it a good experience for new players and how do they inspire loyalty? Maybe during those times they should make matchmaking better for newer players so they are mostly matches with other new players and afterwards it can go back to normal the end of the weekend, idk.
-
@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277718#Comment_3277718
Did you read the post where i posited multiple times that they do not have a direct comparison point, I have been removing all external factors from said comparisons due to attempting to establish a baseline, and that I was giving a generous estimation with the math? Gens can take 10 minutes and the killer can instadown 4 people in a row. The point of the comparison was specifically to avoid the whataboutism caused by the absolutely chaotic nature of the game.
The point, as always, was that the game was never designed for everything to be over when the gens are powered. If it were, gens would take a lot longer and endgame perks for either side would not exist. There's a reason the EGC doesn't even start until the hatch is closed or a door is open, the game is still not concluded. I don't understand why you're trying to force this into a partisan issue about woe is survivors, unless you're arguing with someone else at my post.
Bypassing core gameplay mechanics is not whataboutism. The have been in the game in the past and survivors bypassing gens so all escape via hatch has been a real scenario.
Hook states aren't the end all for killers, gens are for survivors because they cannot escape any other way. Those mechanics exist in the game. if people are being nice not to use them, it's not because they cannot be strong, it's because people are putting silly limits and rules for themselves.
EGC has also not always been in the game. I don't think anyone of us is arguing with whatever the other one is saying. You're explaining or trying to explain to me why things have to be the way they are atm and I'm saying that they don't have because they haven't been in the past and won't be in the future.
The game at one point was designed for the game to be over when not even all 5 gens were powered. What are you even on? You have 10 times my post count, you've been here longer than me. You know that better than I do. Whether that was a good design choice is a different thing for you because you said you are not talking about fairness or unfairness.
Slugging is a mechanic that bypasses the other means for the killer to get to his objective done, so naturally I am asking, why aren't we talking about that? If more than one survivor escaped via hatch would we not put a timer on that and claim survivor objective can be done in less than 180 secs since they can bypass most gens?
I was arguing with someone else and you wanted to prove to me why it's important for the EGC to exist because survivor objectives can take as little as 180 seconds, so another phase should (?) exist. Why, probably for killer's benefit not? Why is it whataboutism if I mention that killers can down survivors and end the game without technically ending the game? Just because it is a risky play doesn't invalidate it, survivors don't have such a mechanic as basekit. Is it hard to quantify? Absolutely, but it is there. Hooking survivors isn't the only way win the game for killer, therefore achieving his objective. Doing gens for survivors though is mandatory if they wish to get a win as a team. And if reworked Mori ever made it to the game, my point would become even stronger because the game would end when the last survivor goes down, so the killers objective at that point could take as little as 45 seconds. It would only render it riskier because the game would actually give survivors a way to combat killer bypassing the hook mechanic. Hooks are more counterable for survivors than slugging especially if we go with the perkless scenario.
I'd like to believe somewhere higher in the post you could understand my point, because we view this from a significant different lens and are not arguing for the same things at all or even agree things should be the way they are or that they have a right to be this way.
-
@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277300#Comment_3277300
I mean there are tons of things they could change at high level that wouldn't affect low level play. I always use this example but in league they balance low skill champs around low to mid mmr while high skill champs are usually balanced around mid to high mmr. They can nerf nurse and blight but they would also need to nerf some of the extremely strong things on survivor side such as stacked med-kits and hyper focus builds. Because a nerf to the most stacked of med-kits won't affect someone who just needs to heal themselves because they don't know how to find teammates or their teammates wont heal them. There are lots of other things like this as well.
Truly I feel like if survivor mmr functioned perfectly( I know that's impossible) then the game could be balanced way way better. There is way too much inefficiency all the way up until top 5% mmr survivor's who are probably a 3-4 man swf anyway. If a better mmr system and indicators are in the game I think it will be in a much more balanceable spot.
For the MMR to function the game needs way more players than it currently has. I also make the mistake of comparing DBD to league, but when you see the numbers of daily players for each player side by side you start to get a reality check. And that's not accounting for region. That's why there can be so many teammates and killers with bad ping.
Implementing icons and ping systems might seem more challenging technically but it is something the devs have control over and can implement much more easily than attract 500k players for DBD which is hard for most games to do already. Good matchmaking is dependent on more external factors.
The other thing to consider is how can DBD attract and retain new players? Because it needs them if we ever need the experience for the average player to improve or feel more fair, but this becomes a cycle. if matchmaking is so bad, new players won't stick. New players not sticking means matchmaking cannot improve without suffering from long queue times.
-
@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277666#Comment_3277666
up to 4 gens can be done at once, which means that 90 seconds can be anywhere from 1-4 gens being completed. The expected variable is for 1 person to be in chase, while 3 are working on gens: This gives the gens two "waves" of 90 seconds they can be completed in.
Killers objective also takes too little. If a killers objective is to sacrifice all survivors then we can assume they all start under a hook and he only has to hit them twice and hook and then hook them right?Going to ignore the rest about TTD and such because I very specifically omitted all factors for both sides that can affect the duration of the objective, so lets keep it relative when making that kind of comparison. Hook timers are 60 seconds per stage, which means a single kill requires 120 as base. Since the killer is only one person, it is impossible to give this a set cadence like the survivors, they can only be doing one thing at a time. This then requires estimation, so we can try being forgiving and use 1 hook state as the "simultaneous action" limitation: We will assume for comparison purpose it takes 60 seconds per kill despite knowing it can very easily be more or less. That said, you are looking at 240 seconds for all 4 to be killed, which is longer than the 180 compared to. Understandably this is an extremely unstable comparison, but the very nature of the fact it is incomparable without piling on multiple factors is part of the issue. It is impossible to measure the objective of the killer, especially in comparison.
That said, I once again posit that my point was very specifically about the endgame being part of the game proper, due to how the objectives are balanced. Both rely heavily on the factors that surround them, which is why I often state that the game is "balanced on averages." I'm not even going to touch comments about wanting the old hatch back, especially as someone who refused to take part in standoffs and regularly jumped to my death instead of plopping down and opening netflix.
The objective of the killer taking that long can be bypassed by slugging. Survivors have no perks so they cannot pick themselves up.
Slugging currently takes 4 minutes but if you slug all 4 in the first minute the game is won, the time in this case for the killer to complete his objective is artificially inflated. He can now watch TV. He doesn't even need to hook them, hooking them is simply a mechanic to hasten their death to complete his objective in a safer way (by adding pressure), but slugging if it's possible is the most definitive win.
if anything it seems to me it is the equivalent of survivors being able to spawn hatch before completing all gens and getting to their main objective (escaping) without having to do it through exit gens that require gens. Basically it bypassed a core mechanic that was counterable more easily by the killer.
Survivors don't have any such thing currently. So when you take into account slugging, it might seem like you need 4 mins or so to win but in reality, if the killer downs survivors one after the other the game can be over in less than a minute (and that is something we've seen happen by you know which killer, although admittedly they usually have perks to help them). Would you be willing to address this part of killer's gameplay or do you wanna limit the conversation to only hooks as the killers objective?
-
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277616#Comment_3277616
I don't believe these numbers are correct or correctly interpreted. I'll have to dig the last values though.
edit: found them
SWF4 : 20% SWF3 : 40% SWF2 x 2 : 10% SWF2 + solos x 2 : 10% Solos x 4 : 6%
For a detailed explanation, check the comment: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090730 and my reply a bit after on the same page.
How do you know SWF use communication 100% of the time? My reply pretty much mirrors those stats posted in the picture of the link you gave me.
As I mentioned earlier, if I am playing with a random player I added do we count as a SWF or duo solo? We are not using any communication after all. We are not getting the advantages SWF is getting. The chart (as far as I can understand) or you, don't make distinction between SWFs who use communication and those who don't. The game probably counts us a duo SWF but are we really?
When killers complain about SWF, they are not complaing about 4 randoms playing together who happened to add each other after game, they're complaining about those who are using discord and communicate the killer's ever move, calling out killer perks etc, which is probably even less than the percentage that appears in the chart.
The percentages you just gave me here don't even come up to 100%, only up to 86%. Where's the rest of the 14%? Am I missing something?
SWF4 : 20%
SWF3 : 40%
SWF2 x 2 : 10%
SWF2 + solos x 2 : 10%
Solos x 4 : 6%
20 + 40 + 10 + 10 + 6 = 86
Do I need to multiply something? What is going on? Maybe I'm simply stupid. How did you come up with those numbers? Is there a formula? Did you track your own matches? Please, make it make sense.
Regardless, what I believe you're trying to say is the distribution of the playerbase per match.
But by numbers alone, solo survivors are still the majority as a playerbase and whether they play with 2man SWF or a 3 man SWF they still suffer from lack of communication and something that the statistics probably cannot show, is that they're more easily sacrificed by the team in that case as saving your friends takes priority. Not to mention that they can be the ones to set the pace and decide the kind of game THEY want to play, so you still have not proved how solo survivor doesn't suffer the most from both killers and SWF. And that is without taking into account that not all SWFs use communication to leverage their advantage. Despite solo survivors being the biggest number of players they really do have the least agency as they cannot communicate and they make life easier for BHVR for being available to fill the spots that 2man and 3 man SWF need with the risk of being punished by it.
-
@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277610#Comment_3277610
None of that has anything to do with what I posted. My post was specifically about the fact that the game is not "over" when the exit gates are powered, because the time to do so is entirely dependent on the factors around it. I have not said anything about how fair or unfair any of the factors surrounding it, nor that it causes, are for either side. All I have said is that the time to complete is actually extremely short for that milestone when looked at completely linear fashion. This is in comparison to 2 minutes of hook time per survivor, while only 3 survivors are needed to achieve peak efficiency (again, disregarding the factors associated on either side.) The numbers game favors the gens being completed inherently, as it is the faster resolution: everything from skill to rng determines the rest.
This is an important consideration because it verifies that the gens being powered is not considered the end of the game, and perks like No Way Out, Remember Me, and Blood Warden are designed specifically to extend the duration of trials after that point. It is true that the survivors generally have reclaimed a degree of advantage compared to the gradual shift the killer has been building up to that point, but said advantage is going to be entirely relative to the status of the survivors (hook states, how many are remaining, etc.)
It has to do with what i originally posted though, concerning fairness and unfairness. The person I replied to was complaing about hatch robbing killers of deserved 4k. And I replied on the side of survivors and you replied to me about gen speeds. We were already having a different sort of conversation there.
As for gen timers I don't get what 90 x 2 means. I understand how you came up with 180 seconds though.
Killers objective also takes too little. If a killers objective is to sacrifice all survivors then we can assume they all start under a hook and he only has to hit them twice and hook and then hook them right? Let's say it takes 3 seconds to attack and recover, then you need 3 more seconds for second attack. So that is a total of 6 seconds. Time to pick up a survivor is 3 seconds and time to hook him is 1.5. So that's in total like 10.5 seconds x 4 = 42 seconds to hit and hook all survivors. How much time till they are all sacrificed. Well, each hook stage is 60 seconds right?
Once all are hooked and reach stage two they are all automatically sacrificed. That is dependent on the time the last survivor was hooked, which is at 42 seconds. Add to that 60 seconds and all survivors are killed at 102.
Survivors doing their objective as optimally as possible without taking into account anything realistic (like killer chasing them or them looking for gens or killer interrupting them and kicking gens) still takes a lot longer than it takes the killer to sacrifice all of them as second stage is skipped entirely once all are on hooks.
Survivors have no always had to to experience that part of the game when hatch could be used by all of them and spawned earlier. Removing that has made the game inherently easier for killers as now survivors are forced to play out the whole game even when they are at an extremely disadvantaged position. I am not advocating for the game to return to that state, merely mentioning that things existing at the moment does not mean they always have existed or that they always will, or the circumstances around them won't change.
-
@EvilBarney666 said:
I'm my opinion, I feel that from a business perspective they should favor the survivor side. More people play survivor and therefore buy more cosmetics and bring in their friends who in turn buy more.
I do feel that They have been trying to better balance for both sides as of late. I also look at swf. Regardless of what people say, SWF is an advantage. Especially on comms. They have not givin the killer any form of compensation for the info swf can give.
So if you were to put me on the spot I would say that they favor the survivors more. However I understand it from a money making perspective. You cater to your majoriy.
Just my 2 cents.
50% or more of the survivor playerbase plays solo.
4 man SWF accounts for less than 5%.
The most common SWF is 2man.
Not all SWFs are sweaty tryharders and not all will use communication (if I added a person i thought was good from my previous game and we play together now but don't talk on discord or another party how would you categorize us? We obviously are not getting the benefits you're talking about).
If BHVR was survivor sided then solo survivors would have a bigger influence over the game. As it stand now BHVR will rather give us a gen-focused meta for both killer and survivor (just look at the last chapter that released). Focusing on gens means making slowdown stronger and 3-gens a stronger strategy. Who is the only one who an deal with those situation? Solo or SWF? Obviously SWF and 4 man at that.
Everytime a topic like this is discussed anywhere killers collectively forget that survivors aren't only comprised of SWFs or that they aren't even the majority.
Maybe keeping SWFs around means keeping players loyal unlike solo. Who knows? perhaps SWFs are the whales of DBD. I cannot know, only BHVR can know how much more invested (or not) SWFs are compared to solos and if they're a better consumer or not.
-
@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277490#Comment_3277490
It takes a minimum of 180 seconds to do all 5 gens, just based off of raw manpower. You only need (90 x 2) to complete that objective, no perks/items/addons/anything. There is a reason the gates being powered/EGC is considered a phase of the game and not the game already being over, because the objective to get there is hilariously short when not accounting for the other factors involved.
You probably know this better than me but EGC has not always been part of the game, and hatch mechanics have been different. If killers feel they are robbed because of hatch how is it any different than me feeling I'm robbed if I don't get to escape or get a 4E when the majority of the match the killer has been outplayed by the survivors, meaning he is outskilled. The survivors earned it from my point of view and maybe if no one has been sacrificed at that point, then exiting gates should be made easier for survivors as opposed to having to deal with more stuff. Is it radical? Yes, am E really a supporter of it, maybe not really. I'm simply throwing ideas because end game can be a turning point for survivors when all the while they've been doing good. It like been punished for doing well 90% of the game for doing one mistake (if you wanna go with NOED) and same with killers feeling they deserve 4k if they down the majority of survivors before all gens are done. Both are feelings of entitlement really.
Many games have comeback mechanics truth be told cause you don't want your game to be decided at a certain point. For killers it's possible to come back from a bad game by bringing certain perks in the end-game. For survivors doing bad, we all know the infamous slug for the 4k when 2 are left. So when 2 are left there are not really any comeback mechanics that can level the field really and as we know Hatch is a consolation prize at best. SO a killer who has taken out 2 weak links but not bothered with the 2 others who might be strong may as well have won the game, he really just bypassed going against the more difficult ones but currently we're ok with that. Those 2 survivors will have to sweat their balls off if they want to tie, there are no mechanics that actually help them come back from that.
In other games you do have come back mechanics, or the games have evolved to allow them, I'm of course referring to PvP games as well.
If we take League as an example (I have no idea if you have ever played) if I'm doing superwell, I get a bounty on my head. That means I am worth more so if I make a mistake and die, then the team can receive resources directly form me (as in gold). That can also be made even worse if I die to a certain character who benefits immensely from that gold (like a carry) and now they've somewhat begun leveling the field again since more gold means more items to buff your powers.
One good comeback mechanic for survivors when killer is snowballing would be either to get gen-speed or the infamous basekit unbreakable. I personally would be for it if it became available when 2 survivors were left. As it is now, the killer can just slug and go look for the other or wait for them to make an appearance trying to heal their downed teammate, so the pressure falls hugely on the shoulders of the survivors. With basekit unbreakable killer has to weigh in if he wants to risk a 4k by slugging if he feels extremely confident or get a guaranteed 3k and find the last one before hatch or instead focus on closing hatch. Currently slugging for the 4k is pretty much superior to the other one and anyone who wishes to 4k should always do it, there are hardly any drawbacks and a small risk of someone bringing Unbreakable. In its current state a killer taking out two survivors early is a guaranteed win. There should be a possibility for the killer to still tie (he's not even losing lol) or else we could make a case for a teammate dying at 5 gens and dooming everyone (I wonder how high the killrate is when a survivor is removed at 5 or 4 gens permanently).
Thing is come back mechanics can be there to stop snowballing and for survivors that is a lot harder than for killer. Like I mentioned killer can still influence end-game and even if he has not done great there are perks that can really turn killer games around because they can apply to all survivors (NOED makes everyone exposed, No way Out blocks everyone from opening a gate), survivors don't have perks that buff everyone at end game, because first of all to get value off of it you actually have to make it to end game while killer will always by default play endgame. And when only 3 survivors are left with a lot of gens to do and they have end game perks equiped they are even more disadvantaged. When 2 are left? Good luck with that.